Irish Paganism - Cultural Appropriation vs Cultural Appreciation

[@JA-we8gl]

The term “culture appropriation or cultural appreciation” was extremely helpful in clarifying the difference. Loving the learning. Thank you Lora, for sharing actionable ways to give back to the cultures that I’ve been appreciating. 😊

[@sherenelamontagne761]

Thank you Laura, this is something I was also struggling with understanding and not wanting to appropriate, but rather appreciate and support. Your words around this helped immensely and put some of that anxiety to bed.

[@bditman4740]

loved this video i know i am so very late to the party but i love this respectful explanation. I am american and this is a great lens through with to look at our own indigenous peoples

[@astertea5187]

Thank you Lora and thank you to your student for asking this question. It's one I've been asking myself a lot lately and it's great to have this resource to think on and to check back on.

[@MichaelRickicki]

Thank you. It's so simple to practice respect, generosity and appreciation rather than grabbing all we can.

[@Tarabethia]

Thank you for sharing the question and answer! I too have always had a fascination with Ireland with minimal ancestry (1% Irish in grandmother's ancestry results). I've found Celtic/Irish Paganism to be a path I feel very drawn towards and would like to pursue without disrespecting anyone or anything. This video helped a lot! 💚

[@bythewaterfront]

I don't comment much on youtube in general but I just wanted to thank you for making this video. This question has been on my mind for a long while now and hearing you speak on it truly gave me a better understanding. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings, and opinions with us on this very important topic.

[@NicCaba]

Oh my god. Where you spoke about irish people dismissing themselves speaks so much to me. I used to be a fluent Irish speaker and I've lost all my confidence in my Irish. Its such a good point that Irish people don't think of. GRMA 💜

[@jessfitzpatrick831]

Thank you for breaking down cultural appropriation for those of us navigating these cross cultural waters. I find myself struggling on a fair constant basis with my American identity (mostly how I loathe it) and how it impacts trying to keep right relationship with the land and my gods. Your suggestions are genuinely helpful not only for my religious practice, but the weird limbo in being a descendant of settlers/colonizers.

[@adelemarieish]

You've explained so well what is and what isn't cultural appropriation. I really felt it when you said that about not thinking to speak up or about Irish culture, I suddenly realised that's what my family and I were like. Thank you.

[@dsadenwater]

Thanks for this video, it has helped me feel a lot more confident that I am enjoying this culture without appropriating it.

[@jaywoodwolf7142]

I been concerned about the same thing. I live in the U.S. but I do have a ancestry in Ireland and Cymru. i don't share much of what I learned being that I don't live in those countries. My personal reason why I am learning the pagan traditions of these to countries is 1. I want to honor my ancestors. 2. I want to reclaim my roots. 3. I feel that the world, as I know it, has took my families cultural identity. as a U.S. Citizen most (not all) people of European decent have lost their roots.

[@allenbreyette5667]

Well spoken on a very important issue. More people need to watch and understand this. Thank you for all your work.

[@thedruiddiaries6378]

Ive been dealing with this ever since I can remember and am feeling really depressed as there seems people that are transpkanted are very trapped through no fault of our own. I feel quite angered and hurt about this so I try to just keep going and do the best I can.

[@alexandramcleod2079]

You sound aware and thoughtful . With a kind heart be gentle with yourself.

[@thereasakapust6982]

Thank you. I feel so ignorant! I live and have family that are indigenous Americans. I do my best for supporting their cultures, but I never thought about native people in European nations. Again thank you for helping me know.

[@crystaltierney2506]

Yes! It is all relational! This seems so true for any native/indigenous way of being. What I find interesting is that by detaching from the need to consume and to identify, we actually become closer to the native way of being, but there’s a resistance to that we all have to grapple with ahah. I think there is something to be said about being compassionate and nurturing with ourselves when we sit with this truth and move through discomfort. Rather than filling that ‘void’ with consumption. Anyways ….as I learn from you more I look forward to supporting your work.

[@alexandramcleod2079]

Thanks very much Lora. I have 7 nationalities in my close family ( marriages and 1 St gen heritage ) we are a family of all sorts. It's fun, lively, interesting. This is appreciated.

[@kieratorockio3551]

Thank you Lora! I'm so glad that I found you and the Irish Pagan school. I've bought several of your books and Morgan Daimler's books. I'm active in FB groups but try not to include my comments unless I feel like I have something to contribute, I hope that if I ever say or do something questionable or wrong that someone will call me out and correct me as I'm really here to learn and grow. I have some irish ancestry along with alot of other european ancestry and I appreciate being able to learn about the culture from natives like yourself. I'm very interested in Irish paganism, not the new age appropriated stuff, now that I understand there's a difference. I'm interested in the transcription project you mentioned and will definitely be looking into devoting some time to that. Just want to say thanks again for everything you do, your awesome and your efforts are noticed and appreciated!!! So glad to have these resources!

[@rebelhippy2166]

Great video. Lots to think about. I'm very concerned of crossing lines. I want to reach back 3 generations and claim it and yet I know that is just not how it works. It's so hard because my family seemed to shed all of its heritage when they landed here. If that makes sense. I promise to delve into my heritage with proper respect. I am so glad I found this channel.

[@thecauldrongoddess7221]

Wonderful points, you articulated the issues so perfectly. Thankyou so much for making this. 💜

[@michellesantos9596]

Lovely description! Thank you so much for your explanation!

[@macnacailli]

I love the duchas.ie suggestion. I'm going to act on that. Part of my decolonization effort is really working on the language, and exploring the living history of the language in Canada.

[@moss5690]

I find it hard to put into words how important I think this is. I'm an English Pagan working with 3 Irish Gods, but I'm also a Museum Studies student. I became frustrated recently with the way in which Ireland, Scotland and Wales were consistantly left out of the many times we discussd decolonisation so I wrote my last essay about Brú na Bóinne as a tool to re-build the Irish nationalist identity at the time of independence. I learnt so very much in my research and I'm so so glad to see you raising similar issues on a bigger stage and especially incorporating ancestral DNA trauma that is only now coming to light, and again not in an Irish, Scottish or Welsh context. I also found your tips about supporting native makers really helpful and will definitely act on that (including courses with your school after finishing my OBOD course) Thank you!

[@pennyrowe9705]

How do you know when you have found the balance between giving and taking? I feel like I am getting the better end of the stick. I like, follow and share here on FB and Instagram. I buy books that you recommend. I am trying to learn Irish on Duolingo. I honor my ancestors and am trying to learn more about them. I read blogs you recommend, and share ones I think others will enjoy or learn something from. I listen to podcasts that you have recommended, I follow several native Irish authors on Amazon and Goodreads. I have even translated a couple of things on Duchis (my spelling is probably off). I support you and Jon on Patreon. I have the subscription for the journeys. I take the free classes at the IPS, and will take more paid ones as funds allow. (I'm not listing these things for recognition, a pat on the back, or anything like that. Only so you know that I am trying to give back as much as I can.) Yet again, how do I find the balance between give and take when I don't feel like I am doing enough? I get so much from the school, you and Jon. I feel like it's a debt that I will never be able to pay. Finding the IPS, you, and Jon has been a true blessing to me. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for all that you do.

[@ashleybooth4798]

Thank you to your student for asking such a poignant question and to you for answering so well. I have been navigating that space of wanting to make sure I’m not appropriating as well. I’m American by birth, with Irish heritage (my grandma is from Limerick), and recently moved to Ireland. I’ve just started learning about Irish paganism and have been doing my best I be cognisant of myself and make sure I’m keeping in right relationship as I learn, but I’m always worried about it. Giving examples of how to give back was really really helpful

[@tonycarton8054]

very interesting and thought provoking .Many years ago a friend and I from the North hitchiked around Ireland .We were picked up by two americans . They both claimed to be proud to be Irish .From memory (i may be mistaken ,they both wore emerald jackots) .As we drove southwards they proceeded to say that these old cottages ,castles ,stone walls should be obliterated ,the land cleared . then they talked about the St Pats day parade and the alarming number of n................... in it ..luckily by then we had arrived in Dublin .My mate and I had kept our mouth shut. ..................Roll on 30 yearss later I had emigrated to New Zealand .In the north we learned only minimal Irish language .I was working in Fermanagh .I realised I knew more Maori than Irish .I ran a Mens group .Often I used Maori terms .My favourite was kaupapa which means agenda ,but a bit more ,but i made the point i was borrowing the reo (language)as my own one was lost .On my last day in group ,returning to NZ a member handed me a note it said Kia Kaha

[@erinwhistle]

Feel kinda attuned to all this... I've started transcribing on duchas.ie, apart from trying to promote local (Argentinian) events, and even dare to participate as a musician .... to give fulfills us, that's a neverending virtuous circle. I deeply appreciate your videos, they're full of naturally loving messages... thanks a million, Lora.

[@kieratorockio3551]

Great video, extremely informative, Thank you. Question: You mention making offerings to the Gods, happy gods=happy people...what about the Sidh/good neighbors... would you say the same rule applies?

[@LaDeesseMaMere]

Thank you for this video. I think many Americans do forget that Ireland was colonized. On top of that, the topic of cultural appropriation brings about a lot of unnecessary defensiveness (from those doing the appropriating, that is)... It's a shame.

[@ValielElentari]

Extremely important video! I'm so glad you did it, thank you. It's been months that I was thinking regularly about writing to you, asking questions about this topic. Great surprise to have this direct resource. Is there any chance you would agree to being translated into another language? I would like to share the video on my site, but it is a French community.

[@Ogham]

Yes, translate away if I can get a copy x

[@ValielElentari]

@@Ogham Of course! I'll give you the Transcript / summary.

[@ValielElentari]

I sent you an email with it today @@Ogham

[@alfonsocalventeiglesias1398]

The dictionary definition of cultural appropriation is: “the act of adopting elements of an outside, often minority culture, including knowledge, practices, and symbols, without understanding or respecting the original culture and context.” Period.

[@Hecateofcrossroads]

I’m a atheistic witch and I celebrate the wheel of the year holidays they all have roots in cultures I am not apart of if I celebrate them in my own way and with my own reasoning of celebrating while being respectful of the culture is that okay?

[@appalachianwitchxx4704]

Hello Lora! I am new to your channel and am really soaking up all the information you are giving here, it's been a long time since I've connected with someone's teachings so deeply. I was adopted as an infant, and from the time I discovered this, I have been on a journey of self discovery and connecting with the culture I may be from. I always felt drawn to ireland, irish lore, etc, but really had no idea if I had true connections to this. I found my birth mother, who confirmed that her grandmother came from ireland. About 2 years ago I did an ancestry test and found out that actually I have about 42% of my dna from these areas, and the other parts from northern France and brittany. Digging deeper I found dna associated with the celts as a people. So my question is, as I am on this journey of discovery of my culture, I somehow feel as if I am an outsider. I am American, and we really do not have a...religious culture? Maybe christian but that has never sat with me, even as a small girl. I'm not sure if this is my own personal bias because I'm adopted and have always felt the outsider, but I am trying to find a way to embrace my culture and do it in a respectful way? Is it wrong for me because of my birthplace? Or are ancestral ties enough? I'm not sure how to form the question that my soul is asking lol. Not sure if it's a case of imposter syndrome or what. But I've always been searching for my place within a collective, and I've found it in irish culture, and would like to be apart of this community and learn as much as I can.

[@CeitDeVitto]

This video is a great video, and a very important one.

[@catherineleslie-faye4302]

What do you do if you are of mixed ancestry with ancestors from more then six different cultures and you feel drawn to part but not all the aspects of all the cultures of your ancestors?

[@gopaladas8121]

Explore them all feel whatever your drawn to. Or which ever ancestry is the most Dom and go with that one as the main one .

[@catherineleslie-faye4302]

@@gopaladas8121 There is no dominant ancestry that is the problem.

[@Christopher-td5wj]

If I wish to teach of appreciation, but definitely plan on giving back, is this okay? I won't be some big fancy rich teacher that isn't the plan but I would like to use the teachings I learn to connect people of Irish descent to their REAL culture in Canada. I feel a sense of disconnect because the culture here isn't mine, and I know a lot of others feel the same. My views on this have been the same for a while.

[@daphinenewton2748]

both my parents have Irish direct Irish blood and my mum was raised in Ireland but I was born and grew up in the US, I do plan on moving back to Ireland because in my hear it is my home, but would me teaching about it still be appropriation because I live and was born in the US?

[@aliciavelice3806]

I find this subject very interesting. My family on my Mom's side is from Waterford, but I was born in Kauai, so cultural mash ups are a definate thing. :)

[@InTheMusicBox]

Being Greek and having lived in England for 5 years, meddling with the pagan community among other things, you cannot imagine the level of arrogance people have when speaking about anything Greek and how dismissive they can be of ehem natives. I have been pretty much told by a prominent pagan in London that Greek culture belongs to ancient Greeks, us modern Greeks are a completely different thing and we should not been claiming a culture which now belongs to the world. Of course it was said not in a "blunt" way as I put it in the previous sentence, but in the type of British way of phrasing insults, you know.... that indirect way kinda thing.

[@gabyaguilar2414]

Im latin American planning to move to Roscommon, Im extremely extremely mixed i have asian, jamaican, indigenous, african and Mediterranean white in my family i don't know where to go i feel im appropriating celtic tradition, yoruban, voodoo, hoodoo, Santeria,native ngobe bugle,spanish gravela and spanish gypsies. i can't touch anything because i happen to come lighter than most of my family i always felt more connected to my grandpa who was black indigenous and thought me how to feel the energy in stones and interpretation of dreams. im just desperate to feel like i belong somewhere after he was the only one to make me feel part. help? just in general any words will do edit im in love with celtic culture, im taking Celtic studies as my second mayor and i have avoided taking my calling towards danaan or the green man out of respect of the fact im an intruder

[@spirittokens6762]

I’m really happy that I actually came across this video, it speaks to me on so many levels as I have been embarking on finding the right spiritual and religious fit for myself. I do have strong English and Irish roots even though I’m from Australia. In a way it is something I feel of a disadvantage on my ancestry because it was not of my ancestors choice to be shipped to Australia 200 years ago or less. The culture has always spoke to me the music the poetry I was bought up with some stories, however a lot has been lost and it’s wonderful to find my roots again, however I would be loyal to doing this the correct way which is why I subscribed to the school. I am an artist, yes it runs in my family, and an expression of the culture I feel it’s importantSo treading very carefully I’m not making a profit from your expression is something I have been deliberating over and I am very much for supporting and giving back which is an energy exchange of thoughts sorts. I give back and I think it is so lacking in this area. Thank you

[@tevyatuffordfetter7622]

Thank you for speaking on this Lora. As an anglo American, I've been working on being cognizant of the white privilege that I, and pretty much all white-passing folks, have taken for granted, due to our white supremacist based, colonial culture. While this is not something we necessarily created, as individuals, it's something that has been perpetuated in our society, and it's a blight, and a travesty. I'm invested in doing the work to recognize, and correct, when I find myself acting from a place of privilege or presumption; I've been diving deeper into my Irish roots, in the last few years, and am glad to hear you speak on this, in the context of Irish Paganism.

[@tevyatuffordfetter7622]

@RH Neg Royal Reject, I'm not sure I'm fully comprehending your intent. Is this supposed to be an insult? I'm fully aware of the definition of satire, and I fail to see how this could be described as such. If you watched Lora's video, then you'd know this is in line with what she was presenting here. Everything I've said is genuinely expressed.

[@fragranceofsound]

It is Source that determines who the medicine people are and the community recognizes them and they are deemed thus. It is not decided by where you are born or scholastic aptitude and what has been memorized or acquired in the brain as knowledge. True knowledge and realization is a walking embodiment. Children of Native American's that have moved from their clan or away from their land are not told by the clan that they are not Ojibiwa, or Hopi etc. They are and will always be considered by the clan to be Native of that Clan even if they were born in another country. They will always be welcomed back. I know of Sami families that have moved to North America and have had children. They are considered Samis, indigenous people indigenous to the lands of their ancestors. It is the colonizer mindset that divides and segregates. So for me, Americans and others that are Irish by heredity are truly Irish and indigenous to Ireland. Therefore to learn the ways of one's people is never cultural appropriation. Because one's parents moved away from the country of origin or were disenfranchised and lost their land or went though the Clearances does not mean that these people do not have a home land or are not indigenous. We are all indigenous or we would not be alive. That doesn't mean that supporting people that live in Ireland shouldn't be paramount. However in this world where we need to start pulling together as indigenous peoples , we need to work together and pull together in love. My dear friend, an Elder and leader in the Hopi clan who toured with the Dali Lama put it directly to me that Spirit sees who is who and does not segregate as to who can learn or who is included. Real medicine people are required by Spirit to teach and help all who seek assistance. Also Spirit picks the medicine people directly. It is not from taking classes or from self declaring oneself a medicine person. Other Elders of other Clans will recognize you if you are a true Elder or Medicine Person. To me, there is nothing wrong with a person that is pagan that has put the time in to teach if there is true dedication in heart even if they live or do not live in Ireland (Irish Paganism) as we need so much healing on this planet. Just tell the people you got your info through research. Just tell the truth about who you studied with. Be transparent. Anyone that puts the time in can be a researcher, a historian, a scholar of cultural ways. Just Don't make up stuff when talking to others, tell the truth. But yes, this interest in taking one class or even a bunch of them and then running around declaring oneself a shaman or a teacher is irresponsible. It is more about refraining from declaring oneself a medicine person as Spirit is the one that decides. Also using the Siberian word Shaman is not an accurate use of wording for people that are not Siberian as it means a specific thing to those particular people that others may or may not be. We may project we are that but are we really? Many of us have spiritual experiences so I have met more than a few people that are confused in this area, but even scholars and researchers have spiritual experiences. One needs to be very humble before spirit and not assume they are medicine people. Taking classes, participating in ceremonies or even doing rituals, learning scholastic knowledge and doing cultural research does not make one a medicine person or shaman rather a practitioner of indigenous practices or an expert in history / mythology, etc. Obviously if you live closer to the Crofting lifestyle on the land and have practiced it for 50 years, you will be a far better cultural ways representative and one to consult on cultural lifestyle matters. One who is a medicine person however, knows it as it is extremely obvious internally as one has usually transformed so radically that their energy is entirely different or they have physically passed through the gateways of death and can take others through those gateways at will as my Mongolian Shaman associates can. These particular transformations happen in an instant and are permanent and are huge. This does not happen though the taking of medicine plants, having an ah ha and coming down from them. It is a true embodiment. One is not "channeling" entities and is not invaded but clear as a bell. You are recognized by other indigenous medicine people outside your culture. That said, all of us have major post colonial trauma. All of us need to search our souls for perpetration as we have acquiesced into this capitalistic society and need to be part of the dismantling unless you have no car, phone, business, bills etc and charge no money and do no ecological harm. But yes we need to heal and we all need healing from colonialism. Great if you are stepping up to mentor, and we can all help encourage each other to right the situation in love.

[@terryernest6264]

Mr Trumps policy ! ... Indigenous peoples have a right to their land and culture and shouldn't have the previous Islamic slave owners moving their peoples on mass into where they once took slaves from " Ireland " ! " England " !