Iron Islands: Valyria before Valyria (Mythology, Religion & Ironborn in the Dance) | ASOIAF Theory

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Aaaaand of course I forgot to mention stuff. 1. In the video about Garth I have said that the Storm God is the same power with Garth, the Trees and in General Green Powers. In their Mythology, Ironborn say that the Storm God drowned the Hall and the Driftwood Throne and it could be a very bad storm, obviously, but during volcanic eruptions there can be extreme luminous electrical phenomena and they look like this: ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S037702732100278X-gr1.jpg 2. The male Ironborn characters we have, are hardcore reavers with ships and love the sea, but also have fiery help. Victarion with Moqorro, Euron and his valyrian armor etc etc. Stannis the master of ships that is described as gray on many occasions, with the volcanic island of dragonstone as base has Mel and the characters that don’t have a fiery assistance, like Theon and Aeron are the ones that talk about the fire comet, a sign from the Drowned god and Both of them had an extreme gray transformation.

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

When the kraken weds the dragon

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

The dragon lords drowned in fire

[@anthonywarren9885]

You don't know what " they will give us " as far as the Ironborn. These are not the same show-runners from Game of thrones. Ryan Condell has been faith to the source material. So please stop it.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

@@anthonywarren9885 ????? I just said I hope they will not mess up, not that they will mess up. And as I said in the video, I really don't think we will see them that much, bc they were not in the main conflict that often. Most of the major events didn't involve ironborn and since we are really focusing on Targaryens I doubt we will have the issues with Johanna and Dalton. Also, yes they are faithful, but they do alternations and even though I like most things, I do have some plotlines that made me raise my eyebrow, I don't think I was rude or offensive, so I think I can express my opinion.

[@KarlKarsnark]

Neato. I just found your channel. I love a nice shiny piece of tin foil and this does sound very similar to the events surrounding the Doom. The idea of "iron" being forged in a fire/volcano is a nice notion too. I'm a mod for a couple different asoiaf-related channels here on YT (@InDeepGeek and @DavidLightbringer). Both channels have weekly Livestreams with chat where we discuss all things book, show(s) related. Please, join us anytime. The more the merrier. Cheers!

[@HFeyn]

Awesome video. The Drowned God being inspired by a Iron Islands volcano that was literally drowned in an eruption sounds extremely plausible to me, mind=blown.

[@ladyevolett]

That the Iron Islands were once volcanic is very much hinted at in the names "Old Wyk" and "Great Wyk," "Wyk" being wordplay on "wick" as in a candle wick or the wick of an oil lamp which of course enables the flame. Apart from the mining activities, there wasn't much more to go on. Your analysis of the available information is excellent, including your take on the sea dragon. The notion that the drowned god is in reality a drowned volcano is very compelling indeed and I think the only theory out there that takes all those references to fire coming from the sea into account. Congrats on a well thought out theory.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Ooooh, I hadn't thought about the Wyk thing. I didn't know that the word was used in candles, thaaanks!.

[@alexandergangaware429]

Great Empire people who sailed across the Sunset Sea. The clue is that the islands that Elissa Farman and Eustace Hightower found had all sorts of exotic plants and animals on them... and pigs, just regular old pigs. Leaving pigs on islands to facilitate long distance trade/exploration is an old tactic, the Spanish did it throughout the Caribbean and Pacific. Plus, the First Men supposedly came across the Arm of Dorne into Westeros led by Garth the Green, but the Worldbook says (parenthetically) that Dornish Folklore contains no mention of Garth, so if he didn't come through Dorne, how else do his people end up around Oldtown and the Mander? Except the Great Empire of the Dawn might not have been a singular civilization, just the YiTish memory of a bygone age. Or maybe it was real. Great video!

[@Jaarth98]

The volcano theory is great! Another cool thing to add about the "Ironborn were Valyrians before Valyrians" - the viking longships that the Ironborn basically use in the books are called Drakkar in Swedish, which literally means dragon.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Thanks! I thought I said that about the Viking ships. Maybe I cut it in the edit 😂

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

yes

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

yes

[@kawikaahina1759]

I am SO happy I'm not the only one who can't wait to see the Red Kraken. I can't find ANYONE else who looks forward to seeing him. Watching him run rings around the Lannisters is going to be so gratifying, especially since the Lannisters have been so annoying in season 1.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Tyland was comedy gold though. Everything he did/said in the green council made laugh. Also, not gonna lie I am a sucker for Jefferson Hall.

[@kawikaahina1759]

@@CompanyOfTheCat if only his character was as smart as the actor's looks (I mean Jason Lannister, not Tyland. He was actually smart)

[@kawikaahina1759]

@@CompanyOfTheCat also, holy shit I love your channel, I found it like an hour ago and I can't stop watching your videos.

[@Captain_Insano_nomercy]

Dalton Greyjoy is one of my favorite characters during the dance too, and I also have a hard time finding anyone else who likes him!

[@elisebrodeur-jacobs5215]

Your channel is keeping me alive right now. I LOVE A GOOD ASOIAF THEORY IN THE MORNING 🌅

[@sergeant_chris6209]

From your accent I was sure that you were greek lol, and it was confirmed by the reference to Santorini. It is wild how coincidental knowledge someone has due to their local environment can help them discover things that others would have (probably) never thought of! Very thorough research on the lore too, I look forward to watching your other videos

[@umwha]

One of the best Ironborn videos ive seen ... The missing piece is how the Children of the Forest, and weirwoods and Others fit in. Why was the Grey king said to have a weirwood boat? That alone implies that he 'sailed on a weirwood' referencing the notion that he was a greenseer.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Thanks! I have in my mind a theory about the weirwood boat actually, but specially for the long night I have some questions too, mostly because if I am not mistaken in a qna Martin said it was not as old as they think and that changes the timeline quite a lot.

[@ladyevolett]

I think the key thing about "Nagga's bones" being weirwood stumps or a ship in reality is that the weirwood in question here is "dead" or cut off. It's no longer living in the sense of a rooted tree and this makes me question the notion of the Grey King being a greenseer. I don't think he was. The text hints at cut-down weirwoods being involved in mediating dreams - think of Jamie's dream when he slept with his head on the weirwood stump. Or the Ghost of High Heart who frequents High Heart - a hill populated by weirwood stumps. She is a dreamer, not a greenseer. The fandom tends to conflate these two things - green dreams, which Jojen also calls the green sight, and greenseeing are two different things. Weirwood stumps and objects made of weirwood likely facilitate dreams, no more. If anything, the Grey King was a dreamer who tapped into the lost culture of the Ironborn by way of dreams, enabling him to teach his subjects how to deal with the new environment they found themselves in. Nagga's bones then also reference dragon-dreams and as we see, both dragon-dreams and green dreams are highly symbolic in nature.

[@umwha]

@@ladyevolett So, in this version the 'Ironborn' lived BEFORE the Grey King came, and the Grey king used the already dead weirwoods to recall the Ironborn culture? I'm not sure. The Grey King marrying a merling, and his children being able to live above or below the waves implies to me an intermarriage with a CotF or Green-magic-person, and the early Ironborn having a strong connection with living weirwoods. 'Living above or bleow the waves' either implies warging sea animals or psychicly entering the Weirnet to me. I suspect it was the Long Night which killed that culture, and made Ironborn remain as the 'Other like' people we know today - in that they are sybolically undead, or ressurected, their land is quite barren, and they take other peopls as slaves (like the wights). The transformation of 'Green Druid people' to a 'Barren Other people' makes sense symbolically.

[@KitOfTheWeirdWoods]

Wow. I was so ready to disagree with the volcanic Iron Islands, based on the land's fertility, as I believed the misconception. But I really should have known after watching all your previous videos that you'd convince me. Every single one of your videos has blown my mind!!

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

I think that this notion is very popular, because we have many volcanic places in the tropics and the subtropics. The vegetation there is already booming and if you add the minerals it is boosted even more, but if there isn't anything to boost... I am really happy you are enjoying the content btw☺️

[@KitOfTheWeirdWoods]

@@CompanyOfTheCat Ah, I was wondering if that was why. Thank you for your content, it is amazing!

[@billberndtson]

You're touching on things I've never heard before from other KZbinrs. 🙂 I enjoy your analysis and am gonna sub and look through your back catalog. 💚

[@evanousia7517]

I am holding my cat's paw as I am listening, because there is no hand to hold

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Yes, it's on brand with the channel too.

[@evanousia7517]

This wasn't on purpose, but let's pretend it was

[@tonyantony6110]

It's all about the right branding....

[@faisalkamal4319]

The red kraken is coming

[@DarthSidian]

I always thought that the Drowned God was just Cthulhu, but this is also a very interesting theory!

[@mori1bund]

GRRM doesn't just copy/paste something, he uses an inspiration and creates something new with it.

[@gogozeppeli9267]

​@@mori1bundhe copy pasted "memory sorrow and throne" word for word bar for bar 🤣

[@hellcomplex]

great video and I've just started! i recently threw myself into this world for the past four months and my youtube consists nothing but game of thrones and house of the dragon lore. i find myself brewing my own fictional world in my mind, and with the help of your videos, im able to understand a bit more just exactly what people are looking for and wanting out of fantasy books. so thank you, i now have a bunch of videos to binge lol.

[@philipcollette8506]

Great video ! Not boring at all!! I think the Horns video would be awesome!

[@glennspratlin3357]

The Iorn Islands must have been volcanic. I love that you talked about the sea dragon!

[@eric2500]

I like the mispelling - the Iron Islands are pretty LORN as well.

[@SSolemn]

I think it would be nice to see a Volcanic Eruption below the Hightower when Euron performs his ritual

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

That would be sssick!

[@luciamota1249]

So they also came from the Great Empire of the Dawn? But in a differente migration and probably using the route that Elisa Farman "rediscovered" long after? Have you heard about LmL's theories about the ancient dragonlords of Asshai and the GEOTD? IIRC the Seastone chair is made of oily black stone just as the one from Asshai, maybe the first Ironborn brought it with them from Stygai or some of those weird places over there, maybe they indeed descend from some weird people with the needed blood to understand why in the seven hells was the Three Eyed Crow reaching for Euron if apparently he had no blood relation to magic. Well, now you gave me a lot to think about. Thanks for your insights! Edit: well, now I actually finished your video and I got your complete idea kinda wrong haha anyway thanks, I still be thinking about it for a while.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

I tend to think that Ironborn are closer to the Fisher Queens than Asshai. At least the original ones with the chair. Because they have the whole "we are closer kin to fish than men"

[@kawikaahina1759]

Sorry, but I was rewatching this, and wanted to write another stupid comment. So one thing I noticed is that a lot of people gloss over the Lannister invasion of the Iron Islands. Yes, it was an invasion; and it was a complete disaster. Readers tend to overlook this fact and think that it was a success, since they killed a bunch of ironborn, kidnapped a bunch of hostages, and took back a lot of the gold they had lost. That means they won, right? Nope. Apparently the ironborn, though completely leaderless, managed to capture or destroy 3/4 of the Costayne fleet, and kill Leo Costayne on Great Wyk. The remaining Lannister forces had to run back to the few ships left, and run back to Casterly Rock. In the end, no one won. The Lannisters managed to wreak havoc, but they did not succeed in really taking the islands. The ironborn managed to defeat the Lannister forces, but lost a lot of villages and ships.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Yes, it was a whole ass mess.

[@eric2500]

Two kings into one king - maybe two crowns merged into one crown, like the crown of the Pharaohs?

[@gerrys374]

Ok, but Volcanic Iron Islands is a great theory!

[@RustyHuntSoulDrummer]

Amazing content, thank you

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Νο, no I thank you.

[@90745piper]

Outstanding 👍👍 you do insightful and well informed commentary. It's axiomatic you know your shit

[@kasperbmathiassen]

Just found your channel and I love your thoughts and takes Watching all your videos ASAP!

[@shortbuspimp]

I love your posts!

[@eric2500]

In the deep ocean there are thermal vents that provide columns of heat.

[@randominternetguyoffical]

God if they Euron us... XD Ill go reaving on HBOs lands and holdings...⚔️

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

I don't even want to think about it, the worst adaptation of a character EVER.

[@randominternetguyoffical]

@@CompanyOfTheCat I have a tin theory on the whole thing 😏

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

@@randominternetguyoffical 😂

[@eric2500]

The history of great forests cut down is the story of England and Scotland as well.

[@eric2500]

Graze sheep on that deforested land, and the moisture cycle never recovers enough to regrow forests, however volcanic the soil.

[@LSK1]

Great!

[@faisalkamal4319]

Poor Vizzy T

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Poor Silent Sisters

[@yggdrasil2]

Commenting for the algorithm!

[@kasperbmathiassen]

!!!

[@riva1101]

OOF! this ep went hard!

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

Oof? He is mocking me

[@riva1101]

@@CompanyOfTheCat he's trying to copy me!

[@eric2500]

Where, then, are the northern dragons? Winterfell's hot springs clearly have a volcanic origin.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

The area close to Winterfell is obviously volcanic (we even have the rumor about the dragon that left an egg in there) and I want to make a video about all the volcanic areas in Planetos.

[@sinthoras1917]

Well, and Squishers of course

[@HierophanticRose]

There is also Marahai, Dragonstone of the east

[@eric2500]

No foe can stand before two gods except maybe his godless brother, who wants to channel all the power of all the gods and become a god himself.

[@eric2500]

Are you familiar with the origin myth of the Irish? ( and the other Celtic peoples - just preserved best in the Irish stories) The idea is that they migrated from Iberia.

[@KingOfWinter]

Something has always stood out to me about Dalton Greyjoy that I don’t understand. He is given almost the same choice as Balon Greyjoy, attack one enemy or the other, in the main novels and going by the histories you would think at a glance they made the same choice (do their own thing). But the more you read into it the more Dalton starts to seem loyal to the blacks for some reason. First he didn’t declare himself as King like Balon. Second he had every opportunity to attack the riverlands, neck and north and didn’t, even after the dance was over. How easy would it have been with Westeros in chaos and Lord Cregan down south with all the fighting men to take the wealth he acquired from the Westerlands and Reach and carve him out a little kingdom from the southwestern part of the North, neck and iron islands. If Balon did it when the ironmen where basically at their lowest then Dalton could’ve done it with the ironmen at their peak. His army/fleet was one of the few that was relatively untouched. His home islands weren’t destroyed by war like everyone else’s and he had gained so much wealth raiding the Westerlands and the reach I wouldn’t doubt that he rivaled Corlys at his peak. Not to mention he is the only Lord we are told started preparing for this war way ahead of time which tells me he was probably the most prepared of all the lords. I’ll put my tin foil hat on real quick and say while raiding the basilisk islands and sailing to Old Gish (and because he gives me Euron vibes but unlike Euron I don’t think he was crazy or evil) he found himself sailing to Valyria where he heard the prophecies about the others, promised princes and end of the world. Somehow linked it to Rhaenyra or maybe it was as easy as she gave him the better deal or maybe they talked about it at some point either through ravens or face to face that is now lost to history.... The many salt wives thing is just so wild especially when you add in that he never took a rock wife, it makes me believe that maybe Dalton was actually gay and took those wives only to stop them from being raped by his men or something.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

I thought we all agree that Balon's choices were stupid AF, am I wrong? Why attack the poor North and have your ass handed to you on the Neck when you can stay close at home and have the unprotected Westerlands with their gold and produce? This is plain dumb, Balon was stupid. I mean Euron is the worst mofo out there, but he was right, Balon's plan was not it. At the time the Westerlands were almost without any army, they had a big chunk of the area under their control, way better than the North. Now, we are talking about a time when Targs had dragons so declaring himself a king after the Hoar's mess was out of the question. Both Greens and Blacks would have turned him into a potato chip. Also, why support the people that are having backup from the faith when they want the faith out of the Islands? The Blacks were notoriously non-devout and didn't care about the 7 unlike the Greens, so one point for them. Second, the Greens didn't say attack the enemies, said come to King's Landing to Battle the biggest and best fleet of the continent. And about the Riverlands, they were again, poorer than the Westerlands and half-half on who they were supporting, so big possibility of becoming crispy if you anger the wrong person. Plus, they were dragons all over the Riverlands, and most of the armies were there. About the wives, most of them didn't like him, one of them killed him and had plenty of salt sons, he was raping them himself and he didn't care for them, it is clear.

[@KingOfWinter]

No it is not agreed that Balons plan was stupid af. The way he went about executing that plan was though and yes it was stupid to seemingly side with the Lannister’s as far as the seven kingdoms where concerned when the north is asking you for an alliance and you both want the same thing, independence. All you’re doing is taking out your enemies enemy faster so they will have more time to focus on you afterwards. But overall he did take a large portion of the north from the Starks he just didn’t hang on to it for any amount of time something Dalton would’ve been able to do after a war as devastating as the dance.. I said they were basically given the same choice not that it was exactly the same I was speaking genetically to save time but yes I know what the greens asked Dalton to do and I know what the Blacks asked him to do. If dalton declared himself king I don’t think either the greens or the blacks would’ve cared until after they finished with each other but you have a solid point as to why he didnt BUT it still doesn’t explain why he didn’t declare himself king after the war when there was no real dragons around to challenge him. And just because the North is poorer than the Westerlands doesn’t mean there isn’t wealth to be gained from there and after Cregan marched south it would’ve been easy pickings and since he had spent the past 3 years raiding the reach and Westerlands it probably would’ve had more wealth than the scraps that were left in the west simply because it was untouched. I concede your point about the riverlands though but I still believe that he could’ve sailed in and sailed out before any dragon knew he was there as long as he didn’t accidentally attack a castle that already had a dragon there or something stupid like that. The point was the opportunity was there and he never took it which to me show loyalty to a degree at least. Lastly with the salt wives. I’ve always thought the woman who killed him was probably a faceless man just because she allegedly killed herself afterwards (or just swam away if faceless man lol) which doesn’t make much sense if he was this bad guy why would she be so conflicted? Also officially Dalton only had 2 kids with names that we know of out of like 22 salt wives. Even years later there is no claimant saying he was a bastard son of Dalton or anything like we have with almost every other character who fathered a bunch of kids. You don’t think that’s a little suspicious? Also the line about maidens throwing themselves into the water asking them to take her with them is a weird thing to say and sounds more like a boast to a rival then some evil remark and considering all of this information is given to us by the Citadel who we know have major incentives to make him look as evil as possible and George himself has said the book is a unreliable narrator should make you at least question everything you read. Maybe he was evil maybe not all I’m saying is that there is so much to his story and most people just write him off as evil and imo I don’t think it’s that easy. Also I’m sorry if I came off like I was challenging you in my initial comment. I love your videos and theories I’m sorry if I made you mad for some reason but when I was reading your reply it felt like you were mad and calling me stupid the whole time and I didn’t understand why lol

[@eric2500]

Cutting down trees clearcutting style changes the environment and wrecks the soil fertility rather quickly!

[@williamweisenborn6532]

Dragon glass. The black soul sucking swords are dragon glass, it would support the theory that the islands are volcanic.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

I was thinking about it too at first, but then I was like "First of all dragonglass is very brittle so for swords it's not very good, but also the First Men knew from the children and in general what obsidian is, they knew how it looks like, if it was dragonglass they wouldn't say weird black swords that were very strong, the hell were they using?" So, yeah I'm not sure that dragonglass was the material there.

[@drunkengrumkin1315]

No solo una proto-valyria, también podría ser un proto-King'sLanding "The *men* *sworn* to the Grey King ate at a table shaped like a large *starfish* while seated on thrones made from *mother-of-pearl* . The Gray King reigned for one thousand and *seven* years". Arrival of the Grey King with the first longship= Aegon landing. sworn men and the color of mother-of-pearl (white)= Kingsguard. table shaped like a starfish = The Seven-Pointed Star. The Storm God snuffed out Nagga's fire = King Robert I Baratheon. end of the targaryen dynasty.

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

dalton did have a successor the ironborn having some sense have the succession of salt wives be like that of normal wives the first born but it seems that plots and ambitious lords caused this

[@Bluemilk92]

Plain ol' iron can be black. Like black black, think of a cast iron pan, with no shine. Everyone forgets the Andals (supposedly) brought _steal_ not iron. You take a bronze axe to a black iron breastplate and marvel at how useless it is. You need REALLY high temps to get iron folded and shiny.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

I agree, but cold iron and cast iron, that is black is very brittle, it's no suitable for weapons (in a battle for example against a rock or something very hard wouldn't be that effective, it could break and people would know that their soul sucking weapons aren't that effective). Also, first men did have iron swords, the Starks for starters had iron swords in the crypts, they would know if they were plain cold iron I think.

[@Bluemilk92]

@@CompanyOfTheCat So, the only way it would work is if it was crazy heavy and thick. You'd need a Mountain type. They do mention swords, which require advanced smiths, but hammers, axes, sickles, 'n picks? IDK what to do with the soul sucking.

[@CompanyOfTheCat]

@@Bluemilk92 Cast iron as an alloy is both heavy af, as you said, and very brittle, it is not suitable for uses where a sharp edge or flexibility is needed. It can be produced though, if iron ore is used as a flux while smelting copper. If it was not the case, then apparently, they knew techniques for iron smelting, which is way more difficult than other metals, meaning they were way more advanced in metalworking (still are great at it, second to no one in Westeros according to some maesters). Could it be they knew ways of making steel? They do say bless him with steel, so it could be that. It is possible with heat coloring to achieve a very dark color as a layer on top. That being said, I think magic was involved tbh (I changed slightly my take about them on my VS video). They say some weird ass stuff about Ironborn of old and they were more than ok using magic sooo... Enough metallurgy for today 😂

[@CJusticeHappen21]

Woah. And Moqorro declares that the "Drowned God" is a demon, a thrall of the Great Other. Much in the same way that Living are killed and turned into Wights, Thralls of the Great Other. If the Sea has buried the Volcano, then that's the Sea, making the Volcano it's Thrall. The Great Other doesn't create any life, it steals life from the Red God, the God of Life, and enslaved that life into it's service. I think that the words, "What is dead can never die but rises again stronger" is not a promise to the Ironborn that they will one day rule the world again or whatever. I think that it is a threat against them, a warning. That if the Ironborn ever displease the Great Other, ever start to "sow", then the Great Other will unleash the "Drowned God" and destroy them again.

[@anitareasontobelieve378]

I see that point. But all the religions w have WW connections.