Ironclad vs Liberator: Settling The Debate in less than 15 mins

[@billionaireninjas]

A few general updates: "spawn" in the context of this video means the ships you store on the pads will still be there when you store the liberator and when you bring it out of your hangar. Second, please wait for the Q&A before you buy anything solid. Get a CCU to all three and then hold what you got until the Q&A is released. See you in the 'verse!

[@tagged_sc_aka_pilotducky]

Ah okay, thanks for the clarification.

[@OTbitwise]

Liberator with 2 prospectors extra bags and a Roc sounds like a great mining operation for 3 friends

[@artsolano6762]

Liberator wins for being a spaceship hauler , while the Ironclad wins on hauling cargo.

[@GhostRecon2015]

But the ironclad can hold 4 small fighters too

[@user-bh6hi6cr5h]

@@GhostRecon2015 If the fighters are the same size or smaller than a nova tank, then yes

[@artsolano6762]

@@GhostRecon2015I like the pads outside for a fast defense. You can even put Tonks up top of a Liberator and use them up there. The crew requirement of a liberator are 2. So this frees you up more to operate escorts.

[@Leptospirosi]

@williamallen5986 possibly, as the Liberator can carry several small fighters and utility ships in the cargo bay. It could easily accommodate 4 fully loaded HullA for the matter.

[@charliemcawesome5012]

I kinda think there’s a third option….. the Liberator and the Ironclad Assault complement each other on a planetary attack. Lots of guns and missiles on the way in, and once down lots of defence with all the size 5 guns doing AA work. But in the ground man you could have 6-7 Tonks and the Liberator could supply how many Fury’s, maybe 8 or more from the top decks?? Would be wild.

[@thedistracti0n993]

You can't spawn anything anything on the Liberator. What they said is, you will be able to spawn the Liberator with ships on the pads.

[@theg0z0n]

This is correct information

[@vakeervondelecruax8526]

Was wondering about this.

[@Vessssssssssssssssss]

This also goes for the landing of larger ships on the top pad. They will clamp down. You just probably can't store the ship like that...well.

[@billionaireninjas]

This is exactly what I mean in the video. However The q&a doesn't say that either... what it says is you can't spawn large ships... leaving an inference that you can spawn medium ships and below but it does not clarify what "spawn" means. So its all speculation, but considering the cargo refactor its more likely just spawning with ships on pads.

[@briangueringer3673]

I choose the Lib. For me as a solo I am going to use it as my daily hub. Can throw a prospector and vulture or a hornet and a ursa med on it.. So you can go do whatever you want for the most part and 400 scu is enough to go spend an hour or more depending on the activity fill it up about head out. So fo a solo I think the Liberator is the better choice. Plus you can make money transporting other people's ships to Pyro. Ironclad Assault is interesting to me but the fact I heard it can only repair land vehicles kind of threw me off. As a solo I would end up just using it as a cargo ship. Lastly the next closest ship in the vehicle transport is the M2. The thing with the M2 is it has pilot controlled guns which is huge. You can run bounties and carry around an ursa and C8r . So again you the ability to dip in and out of gameplay loops. So I dunno. I like the look of them. The base would be my choice if I was a cargo player but it would appear the Assault doesn't have a tractor beam which is just crazy to me. So yeah I'll stick with the Liberator until something changes lol...

[@kallistnemain2343]

They keep dancing around it, but let's all be honest. The Ironclad is meant for the after-the-attack portion of Piracy. You toss their cargo into space, and pull it into your cargo bay. The "High security" section is literally just a jail for hostages.

[@billionaireninjas]

Great take!

[@Mikalent]

What?! Drake ships being associated with Piracy? That sir is SLANDER of the Highest degree! I'm SHOCKED, and surprised.... well not really.

[@ValosarX]

The Herc is great for piracy as well but that doesn't mean it is a pirate ship. I intend to use my Ironclad for freight transport and overkill ground missions where I can land a mile away and drive in with whatever vehicle I want that day. Don't see the need for a repair bay at the cost of so much space or the extra turrets. If the enemy is trying to stop you from landing your main problem is going to be torpedoes.

[@Mikalent]

@@ValosarX the "Assault" I doubt will live up to it's name, I don't see it being a dropship you throw on top of enemies like the Valk or Steel. I think I'll more or less be used as a forward repair and resupply depot.

[@charliemcawesome5012]

I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS SINCE THEY CAME OUT!!!! Finally someone who gets what this ship is for... Why do you think it has an internal turret?? Party on man!!!

[@Scrypture13]

I am really enjoying the rock paper scissor of these ships. We don’t need replacements, we need options.

[@billionaireninjas]

W comment! Exactly this!

[@williamfinley5199]

Doing giveaways consistently is incredible. I appreciate the hard work you put into a community that I love.

[@PahorLee]

The social aspect of Star Citizen is what sets it apart. It's not just a game; it's a community, and videos like this are proof

[@markpaulsen6493]

For me the liberator sounds really appealing, I'd always seen it as a bit of a mobile base to get amongst the 'verse without needing to always head back to port. Park a vulture and do some salvage, a C8R/Nursa for med and respawn, medium/light fighter for some bounty hunting, maybe even a light cargo to shuttle freight back and forth planetside. With a 1 crew minimum it's your personal home in the stars.

[@killer99090]

I just got it to the verse about a month or two ago and I thought I was fine with my c1 but the longer I play the more I need a big ship to truly live out of and make a profession

[@billionaireninjas]

Well let me be the first to tell you it is a slippery slope my friend. I will advise you to just buy one cheap ship (less than $200) you like and earn the rest in game. It will save your wallet a lot of stress lol.

[@MikeSTPK]

Every update feels like an early birthday gift. Thanks, devs!

[@Nosferatus29]

These two ships are transport barges but don't have the same specialty at all and are therefore not competing but complementary! The assault version is too specialized in ground attack, so it's even less a competitor for the Liberator, and, even if it finally has a retractable roof and tractor beam (which is not sure), it will just be a competitor for the basic Ironclad version !

[@billionaireninjas]

It's that people are comparing them and wondering which to buy.

[@lordbarklee]

The Ironclad Assault would be a great mobile base. Imagine a (future) assault on a settlement with vehicles and troops while you can defend the base... The Liberator for bringing in (medical) ships and fighters.

[@tagged_sc_aka_pilotducky]

The landing pads on the liberator and the ability to use them to spawn vehicles is such a great quality of life feature. You make some great points and with those, I come to the conclusion that the Ironclad is more of an all-around ship compared to the Liberator and you are getting much more bang for your buck.

[@Spelljammer1]

I doubt we will be able to spawn vehicles in the black, more like in the hangar

[@tagged_sc_aka_pilotducky]

@@Spelljammer1 Yup

[@pugjob4612]

They werent super clear, but im pretty sure during the q&a they meant the lib can be spawned with ships on it. It hasnt been spoken of since. Second, key thing unkown is the height of the ironclad's cargo area and how far apart the struts are that the the tractor beams ride on. I feel like the clads ship transport is going to be way more limited than people are imagining. I was tempted by the drake, but i habe no interest in mass cargo running. The flexibility of the lib, its crew requirements, and use made me stick with it. The dedicated cargo area unaffected by the ship storage, and its ability to be a mothership for multiple things such as mining, salvage, repair (vulcan/srv), fighter carrier, etc just too nice. Also with current dimensions you can put a redeemer and all sorts of other silly stuff on the top pad.

[@billionaireninjas]

The cargo area height thing is actually fairly simple because we know how much cargo fits inside and we know how it fits 32scu boxes its just math after that, I also wonder about it's ability to fly open... I see your point about the mothership thing. I think its all about what your fleet needs.

[@NNTorg]

Star Citizen's multicrew gameplay is a blast. Videos showing coordinated team play are a great example of what makes this game special.

[@romamoran1337]

Two things about the Liberator I think you have some misunderstandings on: 1. With the trajectory of how CIG is physicalizing everything, I don't see their original vision of "spawning ships on the Liberator pads" would hold true. Imagine being able to store two Hull-A's that are loaded with cargo in the Libby's quantum realm and have their cargos untouchable by pirates, or "storing" a ship on each pad and parking more ships on top with them staying physically present. That'd be mega stupid. 2. There has never been such a thing as a ship being "magged down". From Q&A: Anvil Liberator - "Can the Liberator transport one big ship on both its upper decks providing the latter can touch down with all of its landing gear? Officially, this won’t be supported as large ships won’t be able to spawn there, but what players do after the initial spawn is up to them. So, while they can surely ‘Tetris’ larger ships onto the landing pads, it will likely not be supported as an official method of landing." Landing a ship and having it stay onboard another ship is enabled by one of Star Citizen's core tech: object containers. As long as the majority of an object's volume and its center of mass are captured by a ship's "onboard zone", it will inherit all of the ship's motion. And if all landing gears can touch the Libby's pads, a larger ship *will* be able to be shipped by it. Libby wins the vehicle shipping game, no contest.

[@billionaireninjas]

Well partially agree "spawn" can mean a few different things it may just mean when you spawn the ship your other ships on the pads spawn with it. Also what happens in hangars may not be the same system for carrier ships. You mention being able to hide a hull A, well that's only 64SCU of cargo so not a big ask. I say in the video that if you want to ship ships... Go with the liberator hands down. All my small ships fit inside the Ironclad base with ease so I don't need the dedicated carrier but I own both just in case.

[@Tainted-Soul]

I am looking at the 3 ships to use as a salvage / storage . to stick a vulture in / on it empty it into the storage and go to the next salvage. instead of heading back after every salvage ship

[@Ryggs]

I have the same plan.

[@axelmousti5812]

The anvil crucible may add the option to spend your salvage materials into repairing, thus you don't have to pay for materials to provide repairs neither pay for repairing your own ships, wich is SEEMS to be a solid business plan.

[@Tainted-Soul]

@@axelmousti5812 yup sounds like a plan

[@tukasingunter2718]

the pads and repair ability are realy big points here

[@jedi_drifter2988]

CIG has stated that the shields of the liberator will most likely Not cover ships landed on pads, except snubs.

[@digitalben420]

Picked up an IronChad today.. ended the debate on my own terms.

[@Xaveth]

Dude, I love the clear distinction between the three. I agree with you 100%. Thank you!

[@Grimonyoutube]

My friend and I have been having this discussion all week !

[@akalaification]

You did something there..😊 Best Braid, Big Built, Billionaire Branded.

[@DanielFruckinFlower]

Brotha! you are solving every debate out there. Yessir

[@jedi_drifter2988]

I really like both ships because they will function very similarly. With Pyro on it's way and more systems coming, a ship like the Ironclad is almost a must have for a Firefly/Serenity nomadic style of play. Having a very flexible jack of most trades, depending on what you put inside the 1500 SCU hold is great. Whether it be a fighter for bounties, a ROC/Prospector/Vulcher, a C8R/Nursa or any combination. Myself, I want to do the long haul cargo runs and while doing that, explore opportunities to discover derelicts, rescue others, scan for resources etc. The Ironclad has extreme long range, 4 large shields and armored. I really hope CIG goes the rout of individual bunk rooms like the Corsair. I feel that I will be able to pick up almost any mission in my journeys through the Deep dark of the verse.

[@ianwilson4286]

Thank you, I really wanted to balance this question.

[@Icarus_Ridexx]

I'm going to dock my liberator with my endeavor somewhere deep in space as my base.

[@ippothedestroyer]

I got the just the regular ironclad, i'm just want a regular hauler.

[@RavingNut]

Same

[@hbutler2]

How many people to you regularly play with? It feels like soloing a C2 is on its way out relatively soon. I'm interested to see how well it does landing on planets. 1500SCU will make doing the last leg of cargo worth it almost certainly though.

[@RavingNut]

Liberator can also use the internal as a RoRo (roll on roll off) like the C2 and M2.

[@gambler1ish]

Need to remember aswell, Ironclad has been concept'd in a time where CIG has a pretty good idea where they want ships to go and how they work. Liberator had all the bells n' whistles when its concept was released, i wont be suprised if it gets sorted properly when it goes into production.

[@wiggyone]

Being so indecisive, I took the only option available to me - I have both the Ironclad and the Liberator, and picked up a $5 CCU to an Ironclad Assault. Just need to get my Caterpillar back now...

[@UNiTEDDKSilent21]

Honestly it's kinda sad but, the liberator needs to be re-concepted, it's already fallen into the power creep hell. The reason the Liberator is so tame compared to the Ironclad, is because the marketing team wasn't as hard into the dev process two years ago, and so it's way more reasonable. It just needs a marketing pass, and it'll get like 1200scu, with two extra shields

[@piedpiper1172]

Probably larger pads. Maybe all XS, or even one up another size. The change to gimbals that accompanied Master Modes has fundamentally lowered the value of turrets because all pilot guns got +1 size, but turrets did not get the same to compensate for their prior advantage of no gimbal penalty. Compare the Connie to the poor Redeemer: both have 4x S5, but the Redeemer needs 3 people to fly and shoot them. Ships like the Liberator and Ironclad suffer the same. What used to be somewhat reasonable armaments just looks useless. Between their continued failure to implement flak or any other dedicated anti-2+-sizes-smaller-than-yourself weapon and the pitiful armament, a crewed Lib couldn’t fend off a single Cutlass Black lol. You’d honestly be better off setting shields to max and entirely abandoning either the Ironclad or Lib to crew fighters and just hope you can kill the attackers before they get through the unmanned base ship’s shields.

[@UNiTEDDKSilent21]

​@@piedpiper1172 I mean personally I don't think that every ship needs to be able to fight, or even defend itself. I think that partially how we got into this mess is the concept teams putting guns(and somtimes ridiculous guns) on certain ships. For instance the razor, the x1, in fact the terrain before mastermodes had the most vertical g acceleration out of any ship while it was in landing mode. This allowed it to out accelerate most ships in a dog fight in order to maneuver around them. Now don't take this out of context, I am not saying the terrain was the meta dog fighter, I am however saying that ships that are not combat ships honestly should not have very much firepower. The a2 has so much fire power that it's actually an alternative to the hammer head. People will absolutely not use these ships the way they are intended.

[@piedpiper1172]

@@UNiTEDDKSilent21 I largely agree. Im not saying the Lib or Ironclad should be viable front line fighters, or really even semi competent combat ships. But there is a difference between “not good at combat” and “literally useless.” Tactically, to defend something like the Lib, or even a Cat, the defended ship needs to be able to present at least some threat along at least one facing. Escorts can then use that one facing as leverage to help control attacker positioning and force attackers into tough choices. But they’ve never added flak to the game, so no multicrew ship can even hit fighters, much less look threatening to them. An attacker can dog fight escorts 2000m from the Liberator to their heart’s content and never even think about the Lib. If the escorts don’t come out the fighter can merrily plink away at the Lib’s engines until it’s soft killed. This is why I badly want flak. It should be proximity fuse aoe, low alpha, low dps-imo it should be the worst dps weapon of its size-this makes it useless for fighting ships close to the same size as the flak boat, but great at actually damaging fighters and keeping them honest. This problem is going to keep getting worse as bigger ships come in. I can’t wait for the first video of a Polaris getting duo’d by a hornet and mantis that spent 30 minutes chewing through the rear engines cus the Polaris couldn’t hit either of them, and they just 2v1’d the lone fighter in the hangar cus again, the Polaris couldn’t even threaten them, so they just ignored it 8km out while keeping it tackled. This is a problem malestrom can’t solve. Even a Javelin can’t put armor over its main thrusters-they have to be exposed to, you know, thrust the ship around. Instead of gutting the flight model more and more (I don’t mean MM’s speed limits, SCM top speed is fine, I mean the changes to how acceleration is calculated they made in the same patch), they need to just add flak. It’s listed as part of the Bengal’s armament, the Hammerhead and Redeemer are both explicitly described as using flak in their official lore, and they’ve shown flak explosions in various promotional content. So where is it? Our dreams of meaningful multicrew gameplay are dead until multicrew ships can reliably defend themselves from, at the very minimum, a single person in a Gladius.

[@UNiTEDDKSilent21]

@@piedpiper1172 ironically there is a I believe, a video of a dude soloing an Idris with either a gladius or a pieces I cannot remember which. The weapons on light fighters should basically Imo have zero effect on ships the size of a cat or a carrack. It should be like an ant biting a human.

[@piedpiper1172]

@@UNiTEDDKSilent21 Look up how the Yamato and Bismark were sunk, then look up carrier loss rates for battle groups of two or more battleships. Large ships on their own are prey for small fighters, but large ships working in concert are nearly immune to fighter attack because their flak cover is so good. That is exactly how real life worked, and it’s exactly how the game should work. The problem is we don’t have flak atm, so large ships can’t defend themselves, and escorts don’t have a weapon to escort them with. And it doesn’t matter how much hull armor the Idris has-it’ll still have engines, and those engines can’t be behind armor or they won’t work at all. Going down the road of “just hard code immunity” will kill combat and play style diversity and immersion. You’ll end up with servers of people soloing AI crewed javelins and nothing else. We don’t need immunity, we need viable weapons for hitting ships that are 2+ sizes smaller than your own: flak.

[@Cvakro]

The Faterpillar is definatelly dedicated cargo hauler, not vehicle trasporter, but has also this capability as an addition.😉

[@goldfishmentality]

Man i really love both of these ships. Star citizen is at its best when you can have a big clunky box that lets you do whatever the hell you want.

[@vasilizaitsez7455]

Your assessment of each ships primary function is spot on. As to cross function, with front and rear ramps the Liberator loads and deploys vehicles faster than either Ironclad. Between these the Liberator has more and better cross function than the rest.

[@Falinzin]

Plus the liberator can haul 2 medium ships, a heavy fighter, 2-5 ground vehicles, and still retain it's entire cargo capacity of 400SCU. Ironclad can fit a single vulture sized ship and you lose your entire cargo capacity doing so.

[@Metro2Metro]

Liberator has one medium pad and two small pads also has Capital class components minimum required crew two Will be perfect for a mining or salvaging and refining operation. Expanse on the medium pad prospector and vulture on the smalls roc inside vehicle Bay. 400 SCU cargo space. The ironclad if you land vehicles inside will take away your cargo space. Most likely won't be able to get a medium vehicle inside six minimum crew I think you can probably get away with two crewman. It's listed as large, not capital. There are many differences between these two. I love them both so I own them both as well as every other Capital ship in the game I'm in for over $14,000 so far. And going. I'm a backer since July of 2013

[@Dormizon]

Star Citizen's combat is a clash of titans.

[@VexTheLatios]

I personally love the Liberator, every time I look at it all I can see is the mobile bases/FOBs that the UNSC uses in Halo Wars

[@Vricrolatious]

Been looking forward to a video to compare the two, though I think they'll serve slightly different purposes overall.

[@RoughlyShady]

We'll really have to wait for the Q&A, but given the description given by CIG, I do believe the Ironclad (at least the standard one) will be able to act as a light carrier for pirates, giving us proper landing pads in the cargo bay.

[@Falinzin]

I think you need to re-evaluate the size of the ironclad my guy, the picture has 4 novas in it and it's packed to the walls, 4 novas is about the size of 1 heavy fighter/vulture.

[@Hurdora]

Star Citizen's universe is a testament to the power of gaming.

[@jnice1175]

Liberator has a tractor beam. It's located on the same side as the PDC opposite of the manned turret.

[@billionaireninjas]

Yes it does!

[@JustNTimeGames]

I was so close to melting my Lib for the Ironclad, but smartened up and just upgrade a combat ship I rarely use (Redeemer... Love it, but rarely use it). I'm happy to have both the Ironclad and Lib. Some people think you can land ships in the Ironclad, but I'm not so sure. Depends on how much room you have to the ceiling. It looks like it might be shorter than what a lot of people are thinking.

[@mikelowrey1930]

First time here! Love, love love the intro! Please get a 4k cam. Thanks for the content bother!

[@billionaireninjas]

Working on it! I appreciate the support!

[@foiblegilneas1777]

To play it safe, I reclaimed my C2->Liberator CCU and converted it to a C2->IronClad->M2->IronClad Assault->Liberator CCUs for the same money. That should let me try out the different versions as they become available and to decide. I am not so sure about the respawn of vehicles of the Liberator, but if that is true, that is a significant value that will keep the Liberator in the run. The number of people required to operate the ship is also a significant factor.

[@billionaireninjas]

The spawning thing may change with cargo refactor so we'll see.

[@DeepRunner1-y1l]

Nice job in clarifying some of the details I did not know,I bought both the Ironclads/assault and because of what you stated, I decided to get the upgrade from the Assault to the liberator but not apply it until everything is known and then comes out in game,this way it is only 40 dollars upgrade and I had in store credit so no out of pocket and if I choose not to use it I can just melt the upgrade for the 40 bucks,thanks for your help.Just to clarify I did know you can't spawn anything on it but the fact it has dedicated ship spaces makes it valuable for transporting ships nothing worse than a ship or vehicles moving around in flight.

[@migueldiazcastelo2563]

I think that the less armed of the three is the Liberator (correct me if I'm wrong). The Ironclad have one dual S5 manned turret (I suppose is in the belly of the ship), one S3 dual manned turret and 2 x S3 dual remote turrets (all in the upper section of the ship). As an extra you get the internal dual S2 turret for "self defense" during boardings. The liberator only have one dual S5 manned turret and 2 x S2 dual automatic PD turrets... A very attractive feature of the Liberator is that you only need 2 people vs 6 on the Ironclards, but, as you say, each one is better in one role vs the others. For my needs the Ironclad is a no brainer. I upgraded my cat to the Ironclad base using store credits and the loaner is another cat, so I'm happy. Good video man, thanks for your work.

[@billionaireninjas]

I agree but I do think both work best fully crewed. I wouldn't risk it. The ironclad is a no brainer for me as well but I'm waiting for that q&a to make sure...

[@Schmeeda-wt9wm]

Honestly now that I knwo the liberator can spawn ships that's a huge plus. Imagine you can put a nursa in its cargo hold and then pretty much have a moving space station. Get a couple guys, they can spawn whatever fighters they want, QT awya to the target, if they die respawn safely on the liberator, recall their ship, repeat.

[@billionaireninjas]

This is the primary reason to get a liberator! Second is dedicated ship pads for transport.

[@esteybarra]

Ironclad opened up a whole windows for competition to fall into. And I'm ALL for that 1k-3k SCU hauler competition. ❤

[@nickstinger4709]

Now I'm wanting a Liberator. Thx...

[@korri2983]

Minimum crew on the liberator is more interesting in a way

[@billionaireninjas]

I like the 2 person crew but I'm not sure that will be valid... I wouldn't run any of these ships with less than three people anyway.

[@korri2983]

I fully agree with you but this offers also the opportunity to have a kind of a mobile base of operations for two or three friends for example for mining as you can have a prospector, an expanse and a roc for example and store your ores on board and then sell them 😊

[@rolanders7553]

U beat me to this comment

[@vonrosphe3098]

I think the minium crew is because of the turrets. So if you fly the Ironclad with 2 persons you still has a better day with the Ironclad because of more shields and bigger turrets. But the Ironclad can be even better with more crew while the liberator is limited to 2 persons max.

[@ShadzDash]

I think they all serve very different purposes. Ironclad is cargo, Liberator is ship transport, Ironclad Assault it ground assault. Decide what you want to do most and there's your ship.

[@Shakerroo]

I think the best bet for people that can't decide between the two Ironclad ships is to buy the bass that get the CCU up to the assault but don't apply it

[@JamWreck]

I did see something about that repair bay thing. I wouldn't mind being a space mechanic.

[@ronaldfreeman3244]

tracker to go with my ironclad? yup! this is one of the few ships we have always needed.

[@lut1ne466]

CGI seems to have sufficiently differentiated the role of each vessel that they are individual and better at their intended role. However, each had the ability to overlap the other’s role but clearly inadequately when compared to the dedicated boat. CHI is forcing us towards orgs and then again smaller orgs will need to specialize. It will take a very big integrated Org to encompass all roles well, from mining to salvage, from bounty hunting to war.

[@instrutordearmamento]

I got the assault before the Q&A and the price increase. But also got a CCU for the base version to leave it in the buyback.

[@mrch4nce]

I already bought an Ironclad Cargo, I'm sold its going to be one of the most versatile ships when it releases

[@T3kRazor]

I am 100% looking at the standard Ironclad. My original vision for the Liberator was as a mobile base of operations; Somewhere to land a couple of smaller ships to have options for when doing different missions. At this point, I'm expecting the Ironclad to be out first. It also seems a more viable candidate with a dedicated area for ground vehicles (shown with Mules but should still fit an STV or hopefully an Usra/Nursa) along with the cargo area which seems could allow at least 2 smaller ships, or 1 medium ship. The shields are also a factor as, as of right now, the Liberator is only planned to have 2xS3 shields while the Ironclad has been given 4xS3. I fully expect the Liberator to be given more shields (either 2xS4 or 4xS3) to help bring it up to the new standard for ships, but we can only judge from what we know.

[@scribbles7204]

I definitely went with the assualt mostly for the repair bay. I figure I can work around the lack of a tractor beam turret with keeping an Argo Tractor inside.

[@Fallub]

The Liberator sounds really appealing to me. However, I did not pull the trigger yet. Your video definitely helps a bit making that decision. Thanks.

[@demonic75]

Cargo will be more important and versatile. Ironclad wins for me.

[@justawildstickman1787]

I hope if the roof is actually closed you could use it as a landing pad to repair even if it wouldnt be a permanent landing area

[@blade913]

Liberator can spawn vehicles? Wtf? That's gonna be interesting....truly surprised they're pitching that.

[@plyssken1983]

The Ironclad seems more usefull to me.

[@MrPriceMonroe]

People interested in the difference between the Liberator and the Assault should pay close attention to the shield(s) size and if that roof still opens on the Assault for secure resource delivery. Do not expect to bring vehicles back to life using the Assault alone.

[@iantsears]

I just need the IronClad to take a Vulture and a C8R inside. We'll take care of the rest.

[@fate-aki]

I've seen images showing the Caterpillar can land on the Liberator, weather this pans out in game.... but if it does then it's "cargo" capacity is greatly enhanced. Also, the number of "Tonk's" you can put on the top landing pads makes the Liberator a scary weapons platform.

[@Yumemaru.]

I want the liberator. It can carry a few fighters, some ground vehicles like the nursa, and a bunch of cargo; all while having some good firepower, QT fuel, and looking awesome. I also like the more heavily armed version of the ironclad, because it looks cool, can carry a bunch of cargo, can carry ground vehicles like the nursa, and has good firepower. The liberator is way more exciting though, because of it's ability to carry both ground vehicles and ships. It'll basically be a mobile base.

[@billionaireninjas]

I respect your choice. I think the Ironclad will be able to do the same but without dedicated pads but I definitely could be wrong. I really only need it to fit my F7A or hopefully F8C along with some cargo.

[@Yumemaru.]

@@billionaireninjas Hey, do you think a couple of scorpius could fit on the two bigger landing pads on the lib?

[@billionaireninjas]

Absolutely!

[@Yumemaru.]

@@billionaireninjas ok awesome. Last question, would an eclipse fit on one of those two bigger pads?

[@billionaireninjas]

It fits! The eclipse uses an xs landing pad!

[@24879067marshall]

I was really struggling on the release but ended up going for the ironclad base, Before it was announced i was thinking of getting a liberator.

[@LordWukits]

I love the update frequency!

[@supernavy94]

The problem is that many people forget again the current state is "it fits in what fits in" but probably that will not be the case in the future so only ground vehicles and no spaceships go on Cargo Grid simply for balancing reasons because that would make every carrier ship useless e.g. Polaris, Liberator, Kraken, Idris and Javlin and that was once the statement of CIG has somehow a reason why it only says 4 Tonks.

[@billionaireninjas]

Well I agree in part. The "if it sits it fits" portion I think will continue to exist. I believe The main difference will be your ability to spawn ships on dedicated pads which in this case would be make those ships the better buy for people who needed to do that.

[@Rum_Runner]

Had no idea about spawning on the liberator!

[@Dr.ReAnimator]

Great video! Both IronChad variants look awesome and bring nice variety that we need in game. I can't wait for my Crucible and repair gameplay to disassemble and fix all of those ships.

[@bloodnmetal]

the Ironclad's got the best looks, at least.

[@Marlax-101]

with the liberator you need to count what ship scan sit on it to the weapon count. the top ships dont need pilots if the guns are manned could be a lot of extra turrets.

[@billionaireninjas]

Excellent point!

[@Yumeji]

I had no idea the Liberator could spawn ships on it, it steps up its uses imo! Still... right now I'm going for the regular Ironclad, but still waiting for the Q&A to make a decisive conclusion

[@billionaireninjas]

It can spawn with ships on is the better way to say it

[@Sabbreather]

I feel the Liberator is my winner personally! But love both for their purpose. Curious to see larger Crusader ships hopefully also for these roles.

[@billionaireninjas]

I respect it!

[@VladMcCain]

To be fair, the best ship is the one the you like

[@billionaireninjas]

True!

[@Frank-costanza]

I think the liberator will be super valuable for moving fighters around the verse. Those things just don't have the range to get around.

[@PhatBear]

Had me going there for a bit. I thought if the Lib can spawn ships, I'M IN! Love the Ironclad concept but not seeing the Assault is worth the extra $$ to loose the top doors and the Tractors... Need the Q&A to work out what Actually is there.

[@impkeeper_Google]

ironclad has those rails the tractor beam is traversing on, so may not be able to get a ship over a certain size in

[@billionaireninjas]

Those can move though!

[@brucebee2525]

I like the look and functionality of the Ironclad.

[@GeTBoREd71]

I agree with ya on this one depending on what you can spawn such as a vulture or any fighter will put it on top. I always found it hard to fill the c2 with cargo simply because the closer full the more trouble seems to find ya so ironclad feels like a death trap of bad luck.

[@xxxxxx7469]

Just some points: - The component fabricator on the assault is a size 0, meaning it can only make components to for vehicles. - Ironclad base has more weapons than the liberator. - Liberator cannot spawn ships, but it can spawn WITH ships on it. Overall i think these points just highlight your base point. They are all for seperate purpouses. The ironclad base also has tractor beams and a brig with a person standing behind the gates in the concept video and brochure, making it a bit more catered for piract than the assault and the liberator.

[@KeglekongenDK]

Here's the thing, Liberator can run perfectly fine with 1-2 crew, using it as a mobile base for industrial gameplay is a huge part too. Throwing on a Vulture/Prospector, Expanse and whatever else. And you got a moving Industrial ship with a fairly big cargo hold. So personally for me Liberator wins hands down, as I can run everything solo, just fly into space away from everything and salvage/mine until I have filled up everything. And of course, then we have the time spent, you can spawn the Liberator with the industrial vehicles you need on it, and just go =)

[@JFJF-t5h]

For kicks, what you do is open up the lid of the ironclad/assault, and have the vehicles inside blast away at enemy ships from inside with missiles and bullets. And arm people with rail guns. Assuming it will remove atmosphere when open, the question is if people and vehicles will stay in place when top is open and ship is cruising, which is probably a yes. I think the developers stuck repair and reloading together in a non negotiable system, and for some reason, I think conjuring vehicles is a part of that system (requires separate computer). Unless they purposely make it so you can't fly a craft into the repair section of assault, then that will limit it to ground vehicles.

[@migtin688]

It is going to be crazy to see an Ironclad roll in, open it''s top door and 10 snubs leave. It is going to be a more potent carrier in the short game where the Liberator is going to win the long game spically with an Ursa Medivac onboard and repsawing destroyed ships... The Liberator is technically more of a threat as a result.

[@AJ-em2rb]

looking at the art, the Ironclad cargo has 2 manned dual turrets (one dorsal one ventral) and 2 dorsal remote dual turrets, plus the one interior remote turret that's likely dual. the Ironclad Assault has 2 dorsal manned dual turrets, 1 ventral manned quad turret, 2 dorsal remote dual turrets, and 2 ventral remote quad turrets (plus the interior one most likely). it has at least ten more guns than the cargo variant but who knows if it'll end up like the Reclaimer and not able to use all of the turrets at once.

[@piedpiper1172]

God I hope they come to their senses on turrets. No one is ever going to log in day in day out to crew ships while turret gameplay is so incredibly limited in both function and power. There isn’t a single turret in the game that the player wouldn’t be better off escorting in a F7C than manning the turret. It’s even worse on these ships since they can carry the escort lol. CIG need to take a page from Chris Roberts’ own book and bring back Freelancer 2003’s turret mode-aim and fire multiple turrets at once at a single target. They can use the Talon’s fancy digital cockpit tech to explain a “gunners station” view for the crew member. At a minimum you need to control two, but really three, turrets to ever justify actually using the things. We can’t have a multicrew game if being crew is miserable, and atm, it’s literally always a downgrade to be crew than fly your own ship. We need at least parity.

[@prinnybob87]

The solution is simple, just pick up a CCU for each and decide later. Or just say yes to all.

[@Chafarm-n3i]

If the Liberator had better defensive turrets it would win, but one little turret with hugely limited coverage. For me, the Ironclad standard will be an awesome mobile pirate base

[@Tenpaths]

Parking MPUV 1T on the IC:A would solve the tractor discrepancy. Seems like running a Lib & IC:A concurrently would cover everything we need to move into Pyro.

[@hbutler2]

I get the comparisons between the Ironclad and Liberator, but to me the better comparisons for the Ironclad variants are the Hercules series. The focus is cargo and still transport in atmosphere. The Ironclad is roughly double the Hercules series for capabilities with the quick external access to cargo (for the regular Ironclad for sure) and the vehicle repair as a bonus for the Assault, but likely at the expense of in atmosphere handling. You could get four Nova tanks to a battle quicker with two M2s for example, but the Ironclad Assault will be able to plop those same four tanks down in one spot and provide a base to repair and move out from. To me the Liberator really only makes sense as a long range ferry and mobile work platform. The Ironclads can do both, but realistically in a worse way. In transit your vehicle crew can man fighters to defend the ship better than using the turrets likely for the Liberator. For the Ironclads when you use it for other than its intended purpose I think you will take significant hits to its usefulness. When you use it as a pocket carrier for example you take a massive hit to your cargo, but you also can't deploy the fighters quickly and likely can't service them well after. I lean pretty heavily towards the Liberator being a better base building platform most likely as well. Obviously it depends on how many resources it takes to build bases, but if 400 SCU can build you a competent starting base with land based base builders the Liberator is just better. If it takes more than 400 SCU the Liberator can have a Hull-A and a fighter come along to run errands at the cost of no building materials. If the Ironclad has ships in its bay or more building vehicles that is always at the cost of cargo.

[@SebastiaanSwinkels]

I seriously doubt the Liberator is going to keep the ability to spawn ships. I mean... where do they come from? Thin air?

[@billionaireninjas]

Well the ship is still in concept so who knows .. but by spawn they may mean it just spawns with the same ships you left on the pads.

[@Traumglanz]

Same place they come from when you spawn them on a station. ;-)

[@Traumglanz]

They are the perfect duo.

[@parkerxgps]

looking forward to more options in this size class.

[@tethan]

More ships is always good. Would be nice to have NPC crew though with some of these bigger ships, even a 2seater

[@timd7709]

The liberator is also 200 dollars more expensive...

[@billionaireninjas]

$175 but your point stands and it stands well!

[@blamsmith]

The price of the ironclads will jump up when the concept sale is over.

[@spider0804]

@@blamsmith They wont jump until release, like pretty much any concept in the past several years. The only thing jumping are old concepts once they have work done or increase in size.

[@chriscray9305]

Upgraded to an Ironclad from my catterpillar with some store credit i had. I like the Cat so it's ok if it takes a while for the IC to come out. I like the Lib, but realistically don't think I'd get enough use out of it without an org.

[@user-eu7vw8mq7x]

I already got the ironclad base .

[@billionaireninjas]

Then you already won.