Is Aptera's Efficiency Too Good To Be True? 🧐

[@vorg_]

Once you understand this video, the rest of the Aptera all starts making more and more sense.

[@bigbadLN]

I really like the Aperta design, but the motors scare me. I can't seem to get any technical info on them, including efficiency and speed torque curve. I expect the back EMF will really reduce efficiency at highway speeds. The faster you go the higher the back EMF. I would think that these losses would be more than a gearless axle.

[@Readerb86g]

I am an engineer and you did fine as a number of others have confirmed the closeness, and reasonable assumptions we have all made. I think it's been almost 2 years since I saw the vehicle and instantly screamed "efficiency" to me. I watched the progress and have not wavered from my initial opinion. The trickle charge aspect, the ability to charge from a 110 outlet, 2-seat is fine for me, it will get me from point A to point B and keep me safe from the elements, that's all I need. I suspect that's an engineer-thing. 😜🤪

[@ssoffshore5111]

I'm also an engineer, and you nailed it!

[@stevekenyonmusic]

I’m not an engineer, but I guess I think like one, because I had exactly the same immediate reaction to Aptera. It’s the thing in my life about which I’m most excited.

[@vic321344]

Assumptions are not data. No data on solar efciciency, no data of vehicle efficiency, No data if it will really withstand rain. What kind of engineer are you? An assumpted engineer?

[@Readerb86g]

@@vic321344 Since you ask, a (retired) Registered Professional Civil Engineer. My background is in geotechnical and hydraulics and hydrology. Obviously this means a wide range in many associated fields and the basics, of which you are referring. I look forward to the future test results on all the items you mentioned but until "official" results are determined and published we all have to rely on preliminary results obtained through testing the prototypes and their components and Aptera's honesty. So, for example, when I first saw the Aptera, I assumed a lower Cd than most anything on the road based on its aerodynamic shape, yet obviously not as low as those raced in Australia. Aptera states 0.13 and between their computer modeling and the wind tunnel tests I also assume that they are being honest with this information, rather than committing fraud. So in short, various claims by Aptera are probably pretty close to what we will find once "official" numbers are published. As far as assumptions in general are concerned, engineering requires making assumptions about real world conditions that you may not have any actual data on. Ask any geotechnical engineer if they know for sure all the subsurface conditions that they need to account for when designing a foundation for any structure, and they will typically state, they only know the apparent geology within the area of their borings. We must make assumptions about what is between each of those borings. My questions to those I worked with was simply "after the construction is complete, based on your design, can you sleep at night? Because that's all you get (for knowing "all the data"). Welcome to the real world.

[@vic321344]

@@Readerb86g So you assume Aptera is honest, while not keeping any promise since 2019? Assumptions have their natural limit. Called reality. Everything else is phantasy island.

[@DemaGeek]

I am no engineer either, but I have done engineering, technical, test laboratory, and electronics work for my entire career. Your approach is solid here, and even takes the worst case in several of the details.... I agree with your calc's and expect the real world results to surpass them. I'm with you in that I can't wait for the Production Intent vehicle testing to begin! Great work and video Drew!!

[@vic321344]

Calcs based on what data? Asumptions?

[@Ralphie419]

@@vic321344 - Perhaps you didn't understand what you watched. He stated that we won't know the real-world performance data until owners have them, but we do know some things now. He based his calculations on *data* about the known size and the expected weight, power, etc. given by the company. His *assumption* was that each of these might be optimistic, so he modified them all to make them a little worse. Then he did his calculations. Even with these pessimistic assumptions, it looks like it'd be a terrific vehicle. With any luck, it'll actually be a little better than these assumptions allow. Time will tell.

[@vic321344]

Maybe you should have studied engineering. To know what you are talking about.

[@DemaGeek]

@@vic321344 After YOU made this statement "drag coefficient is the least important factor for efficiency under 90 mph" you have no leg to stand on Vic!

[@richpate9436]

True, no production models to test yet, but Aptera has been beating the hell out of several evolving EV prototypes in testing and re-testing for three years. They know what they've got. I think it's why everyone there is always smiling. It's contagious. I pre-ordered one.

[@DemaGeek]

Drew, did you know that Aptera's drag coefficient comes from a certified NASA wind tunnel test report of the original first round design? It is NOT a simulated number. Steve and Chris have stated on video that this certified testing was the first large check they had to write when they started the company the first time... $18K I believe. The design we have today has been improved in several small ways, so it's expected to test as well or even better.

[@TailosiveEV]

That design isn’t technically the same as the new one but yes I agree I believe the cd is accurate

[@ccibinel]

@@TailosiveEV The original and new Aptera are more similar to eachother than either is to any other vehicle which has ever been produced. As a result the results can, at minimum, be considered reasonable validation of the accuracy of the current CFD simulations. My concern is that if the short range version is half the cells it will either be 210 miles of range or (preferably) the 45 kwh aptera will have 475 miles of range. When considering the math it is hard to make the models line up with the basic range assertions of the site without the LE (400) and 66 kwh (600) over performing by 10-20%.

[@MrRickMeister]

@@TailosiveEV Yes, and they have made improvements since then. My bet is it will come in even lower with their PI builds.

[@ccibinel]

@@MrRickMeister If NHTSA would get off its 🍑 and allow cameras all the standard will very quickly be for all cars to use cameras. Good for Aptera but also the entire industry. Think of the amount of gas wasted in the last 15 years at 3% of the energy used; if nhtsa standardizes with europe and allows cameras all vehicle makers will quickly switch.

[@charangohabsburg1]

Last year's measurments of Aptera in Pininfarina's windtunnel in Italy yielded even better results than a Cd of 0.13 for the Gamma vehicle. As it is not yet the production vehicle they don't want to publish numbers. While I don't think that they were seeing more than 5% improvment it is very likely that the 0.13 Cd will at least uphold on the vehicles that will be delivered to the customers.

[@seeyouontheriver]

I am an engineer. Your calculations show that Aptera is in the ballpark with their estimates. One thing you should also consider, is that the weight of the vehicle not only affects rolling resistance but acceleration. Having half the weight, Aptera will require much less energy to accelerate up to speed or to pull itself up hills. I have preordered an Aptera and invested in the company.

[@seeyouontheriver]

@tr-labs8320 If Aptera is half the weight of a conventional vehicle, it will stop in half the distance using the same braking force.

[@emilioparrilla465]

​​@@seeyouontheriver😂😂😂

[@Y_Mike]

Excellent grass roots approach to the handful of calculations you performed Drew! Very cool of you to show your enthusiasm for Aptera thru performing mathematics, utilizing fluid mechanics relations, and rudimentary energy summation to show that the claimed specs are grounded in reality. Keep up the great content 👍👏

[@kevroll99]

Aptera is coming soon and will be one of the most efficient production vehicle ever made them throw in solar and you have a winning combo. There's a reason this vehicle has raised more crowdfunding dollars than any other in history. Absolutely love it, Aptera is like Elon said a once in a generation vehicle but this one is a first ever in many ways and will save an extreme amount of energy, money and reduce pollution. 🌞⚡🚗👍

[@TailosiveEV]

Well said!

[@jezza6575]

Yeah right…we’ll never see meaningful production numbers!

[@kevroll99]

@@jezza6575 and you know that for a fact? Sorry you don't and are you aware of the massive amount of people that have contributed to this vehicle? Are you aware that literally everything is in place to get to production? Even if it doesn't get to "mass" production who cares as long as we get people on board and there's just tens of thousands (maybe even hundreds of thousands) of these on the road the world is better with it than without it and that's a fact.

[@bandqpine1690]

AND it will get around peoples electric infrastructure gripes and worries which i am hype about. it will be a trump card to like half of peoples EV complaints of "what about...".

[@EnmandsBand1]

I really hope they will get it to market in 2024 - if they miss production start in 2024 they will probably go bankrupt, noone can keep up the R&D money burning for that long. As a development engineer I think I can spot their biggest problem: They are inventors/designers and they can't stop developing and optimising when they should be maturing and preparing a high quality production. Stop talking about alternative designs of cupholders and other silly details!!

[@DrTeeHenry]

I'm not an engineer either, but your back-of-the-envelope calculations seem reasonable to me. My impression is that Aptera has simulated the heck out of most aspects of this vehicle, so I, too, suspect their simulation specs will line up reasonably well with the real-world specs. Can't wait to start seeing those numbers. Of course the nay-sayers will drive the thing up to Mt. Palomar, or in freezing weather, or at 90 mph and will scoff at the apparent poor efficiency. However, if they do that along side the Model 3 (for example), I'm confident the Aptera will hold it's own just fine.

[@SpunkyMcGoo69]

Aptera always mentions this, but the simulation software today for CFD, Impacts, and electrical performance is remarkably accurate. If it wasn't necessary to satiate the public's desire for real world results, car manufacturers would never truly need to do real world tests ever again. Go aptera!

[@josephgallagher1440]

Drew, you crushed it by providing a clear explanation of the Aptera’s aerodynamics, rolling resistance, weight, tires, drive train, motors as compared to the Model 3 and how Aptera’s efficiency with a smaller battery translates into using solar to provide additional range for free as well as the overall range, bravo!

[@VedaSay]

This is excellent information for Aptera fans to be able to talk about Aptera. Yes this is what all those fancy numbers will translate to. Yes there still lot more to be talked about, but this is an excellent intelligent conversation starter.

[@jhallpk]

I think the idea that Aptera is pioneering is too appealing to too many people for it to simply die with the company, so much so that I think it will be copied at some point. That being said I definitely want them to succeed regardless.

[@TailosiveEV]

I agree. At some point a vehicle like this will exist. Aptera is just the closest

[@richardryley3660]

I see Aptera clones as a total win. I'm sure Aptera has some patents to protect their seniority. But more small, light cars is good.

[@killr0y]

It was already copied once.... By Aptera, since they went bankrupt once already. 😂. Nobody is going to want a $30k deathtrap for two that is going to have all kinds of regulatory approval issues because it will be classified as a motorcycle, when Tesla and others will have 5 passenger normal EVs for the same or less money in the next year... And that's assuming Aptera can even build this weirdmobile in the first place.

[@richardryley3660]

@@killr0y The original founders of the company cannot "copy" the design from the board of directors that stole their business from them. They are the only real Aptera. Aptera will be far safer then Polaris Slingshot and other trikes that are on the market right now.

[@jeffprofessional123]

I am trained as an engineer and I say you did a fine job. You took all the factors that make sense into account without overstating and even gave wiggle room to your numbers. Well done and thank you for the analysis.

[@ApteraOwnersClub]

This is something i was planning but you crushed it Drew. Thanks.

[@TailosiveEV]

Would still love to see your data! Love all your e-bike videos

[@cingkole7893]

Great Vid! Always love the Aptera content!

[@robertkirchner7981]

You left out the efficiency gained from not having the friction loses inherent in a reduction gearbox/driveshafts/CV joints.

[@vic321344]

But you have an inefficient hub motor.

[@georgepelton5645]

I believe he mentioned that a couple of times in the video....

[@mikapeltokorpi7671]

🤔 Maybe? Volkswagen XL1 has 260 mpg. I have to say, that you had quite a solid start with aerodynamic calculations. Drag increases in v^2 factor, so in the highway speeds low aerodynamic coefficient is really beneficial.

[@ccibinel]

Great analysis drew. I determined more square feet (22.67 which I rounded to 23) when I did a similar approach last year. Most vehicles at 55 mph constant is roughly the EPA range and with this the issue I have with the physics calculation is how to get the range low enough. With 0.0085 rolling drag and the confirmed 0.13 Cd it is 474 miles of range with 90% powertrain efficiency and 200w of aux drain (computers/hvac). 70 kwh for the 600 on paper could get 700 miles of range at 55 mph but the 250/1000 will struggle with the approximate battery sizes. If the plan is to literally cut the cell count in half it will not be 250vs400 miles for the low end it will be very close to 2x making the short range less or (ideally) the launch edition will be far better range than planned :)

[@mikegrok]

I suspect that your numbers are correct, and when people start driving them the true range will be higher, granting good publicity.

[@chrislaf89]

I'm honestly hoping for at least 8 miles per kWh while doing 70-75 mph with the 1000 mile battery.

[@JustWasted3HoursHere]

10 miles/kwh is definitely possible. If my brick-shaped Kia Soul EV can regularly get 3.9 to 4.1 miles/kwh, then the Aptera can certainly do much better.

[@tims8603]

I watched a video a day or so ago and the guy had a Tesla. He said his car doesn't get anywhere close to the advertised range. It was about 60%. I think Aptera has done the simulations and are fairly close with their estimates. They can't take into account different driver habits or a lot of other variables so it may not be totally accurate.

[@kennethbowden4129]

Rolling resistance is independent of the number of wheels. It depends on the weight and the coefficient of rolling resistant of the wheels. With the motors directly in the wheels you don't loose energy in a gearbox which accounts for approximately 10% losses of the amount of power applied by the motors. I am figuring real world 9 miles per KWH at 75mph steady, and on around 25 miles per day of range from the solar as a rough guess.

[@NeilBlanchard]

Tire/wheel weight counts twice - they are part of the total "dead" weight *and* they have to be spun. The ~25 sq ft frontal area means that for every mile driven - the car has to push about *4.5 TONS* of air out of the way.

[@jackstrange6360]

I’m really excited for the vehicle. I won’t be in the first group since I am going for the 600 all solar AWD white version, but that just means all the kinks will be worked out.

[@VedaSay]

A 1000mile range Aptera will really be something totally new experience with usage say even charging and all that.

[@dougbrittsan-yn9sl]

I agree. Most people don’t know 10 miles per kWhr is good. Everyone knows 800-1,000 mile range is amazing. Talk about headlines!

[@davidlazarus67]

Actually they recommend that for health reasons that you get out and walk rather than be sedentary for that long. So I would be able to do a long drive without recharging. I would just stop at the highway services for a coffee and pee.

[@dougbrittsan-yn9sl]

Yes David. And maybe the chargers you stop for are vandalized or busy. Or you can drive through Death Valley at 120 degrees with your AC blasting or go car camping for a week w/o a gas generator!

[@davidlazarus67]

@@dougbrittsan-yn9sl Yes that’s a valid point, but if you are driving through Death Valley you should take extra water etc before attempting. Though I think the sun levels would get you through recharging, even if only 40 miles per day.

[@uritamminga1]

I can’t wait for Out of Spec Reviews KZbin channel to test the range on the 1000 mile version. That’s gonna be a long test!🤣

[@deanmcmanis9398]

Thanks for your coverage of a relative estimate of the Aptera's future efficiency. I think that your (and Aptera's) estimates show a good initial analysis. Which is helpful so that people can think about how the Aptera could actually hit their lofty efficiency and range goals. The point of saying "Your mileage may vary" is to rightly express that there are a great many factors that affect range and efficiency in the real world. Hopefully the Production Intent models will be completed and shipped here soon, and then independently tested in the coming months. As a reservation holder and Aptera investor and ambassador, I do hope that the Aptera's measured efficiency matches their (and my) high hopes. With solar assist as icing on the cake.

[@johnhiggs325]

This is the first EV I’m actually excited about. Is it perfect? No, but it seems to minimize the inherent drawbacks that come with current highway use EVs to a point that makes it truly competitive with ICE vehicles. I really hope the company succeeds and that they will be able to adopt upcoming battery chemistries/architectures.

[@southerncyan4098]

yeah, the fact that the price-per-mile is going to be insane, I am certainly looking forward to it~ Could potentially pay for itself over time, compared to ICE.

[@ScottLedyard]

Picky point: "loss" is what you mean. Not "loss leader" which is, "a pricing strategy where a product is sold at a price below its market cost to stimulate other sales of more profitable goods or services."

[@danielthompson3928]

The people nitpicking Aptera's stats better not be the same people purchasing the Cybertruck. If Aptera keeps their prices below 150% what it is now and produces stats at least 80% of what they are now, they would still be doing better at delivering what they promised than the best electric car company in the world.

[@TailosiveEV]

True!

[@colinmacdonald5732]

I did a rough calculation of the Aptera drag and reckon it has half the drag of me on a pushbike. Given that air resistance is the biggest drain on my leg muscles I can totally imagine that the Aptera is very efficient.

[@TailosiveEV]

Love to see your data!

[@axlisl3215]

Apterra 2.0 will have pedals as well for when is claudy

[@KineticEV]

All of this is fine on the best of days. I just want to see how this handles in the snow. I know what my Model Y can do in snow and on ice slick roads but what can the Aptera do with a foot of snow, driving through continuous snow fall and wading through snow, slush...salty roads 🤔

[@TailosiveEV]

AWD tends to help. If model y range gets cut in half in winter that’s 150 miles of range. If a higher variant Aptera range gets cut in half then it’s 300-500 miles in the winter

[@chublez]

Like most vehicles it I suspect this will come down more to tire selection and driver skill. Plenty of good drivers in rwd sports cars with appropriate winter tires will cruise right by a Subaru in a ditch the driver didn't replace the tires on or know how to drive. I see no reason Aptera would be any different, if you know how to drive in snow and keep good tires on a car it'll get you there just fine. Keeping in mind snow means cold and cold means some reduced range for EVs, that shouldn't be a problem for most unless yer running yer car empty every day.

[@brandonforesee3593]

Your Aptera content is my favorite of your videos. Im not a tesla guy, I'm in the wrong tax bracket for that for now. But the Aptera is the first and only car I've ever considered buying new. If they can actually deliver all they promise, it'll be game changing.

[@TailosiveEV]

Thanks so much!

[@commuterbranchline8132]

I do hope they can scale to production.👍

[@edwardv54]

I've no problem with your estimate, and I have a 600 mile version on order. When the PI versions become available for testing one thing I would like to see is how the Aptera stacks up against your Model 3 at higher highway speeds. Does the Aptera's relative efficiency pull ahead of the Model 3's as the speed increases?

[@ssoffshore5111]

Yes, at higher speeds the delta will increase since aerodynamic drag is exponential as speed increases.

[@vic321344]

You ordered a vehicle when not even a roadworthy production prototype exists? Genius.

[@crcurran]

Temper your expectations. 9 miles per kWh and 30 miles per day recharge on a sunny day would be exceptional. If it does better than that you'll be happy. It's a huge jump and worth it. If it doesn't reach the 10m/kWh and 40 miles charging you'll be somewhat disappointed.

[@TailosiveEV]

Nah I’m going into it expecting 8 miles per kWh

[@crcurran]

@@TailosiveEV I keep going between 8 and 9. Whats wild is that batteries in the future are to take other cars to the 500 to 700 range. which will make the Aptera go to 1500+ miles range. Good stuff ahead.

[@marcsequence]

What was daily solar energy estimate, 20-40 miles a day?? Take my current commute, 3.5 miles one way, up to 6 days a week. 1 day of sun covers my commute for the whole ass week???? Word son. Word af. So dope.

[@richardryley3660]

I thought your analysis was great. I'm not an engineer either, (I'm a software engineer, but that's not the same thing) but I understand the physics and I know the numbers work. It's about half that aerodynamic shape, and about half the three wheels. I'm pretty sure I've seen that basic design, from the earliest days of the atomic age when streamlining was sn art style all its own. There's always been talk of cars with unbelievable gas mileage, and they usually turned out to be aerodynamics and extremely light weight. They never made it to commercial production because they were just too specialized. One place I think Aptera broke through the barrier is with their design. It's hard to make a passenger vehicle with rounded surfaces. It's hard to make the doors fit that shape, the wheels need to be inside fairings and away of the body so they are free to turn, and you need to make ot wide enough to fit two comfortablly. It could have much less drag if it was thinner, but nobody wants to ride tandem. And the technology wasn't there. We needed larger and better batteries, and more solid materials. We haven't had that until about the last decade.

[@BSingh-on4qr]

I cannot wait to prove all the doubters wrong. Of course in The current stage there's still risk they won't have enough funding to get to proper deliveries, but once they get there, these things will be revolutionary and sell at a way faster scale than anyone is anticipating

[@vic321344]

And once we get fusion, things will be revolutionary and sell at a way faster scale than anyone is anticipating. Same if once christmas and easter are at one day.

[@BSingh-on4qr]

@@vic321344 Fusion?

[@joeb4294]

The biggest question I have is how will efficiency differ between the four different battery sizes that they have announced? The battery weight will have a bigger impact on overall weight than other EVs we have seen produced lately, since its other components are so lightweight. I expect the 250-mi version to definitely be at least 10 mi/kwh, and maybe the 400-mi will be close to 10 mi/kwh. The 600-mi and 1000-mi versions will use taller batteries, so the weight penalty might not be as bad as otherwise expected (i.e., 400-mi to 600-mi is less than a 50% battery weight increase). If the 1000-mi version can achieve 10 mi/kwh, I will be shocked - if it does, the 250-mi version would likely be much higher than 10 mi/kwh. The safest assumption is that the 250-mi range version will achieve 10 mi/kwh (EPA) - so Aptera can say that there is a version that meets their claim, but all larger battery packs will be less efficient (because physics). Since the 400-mi version is the launch edition, there is a chance that it will achieve 10 mi/kwh (EPA). My completely unsupported speculation is that we will see something like: 250-mi range, 20 kwh usable battery = 12.5 mi/kwh 400-mi range, 40 kwh usable battery = 10.0 mi/kwh 600-mi range, 65 kwh usable battery = 9.2 mi/kwh 1000-mi range, 120 kwh usable battery = 8.3 mi/kwh

[@Leonardokite]

Time will soon tell, but I'm super confident in the efficiency numbers.

[@Ed-jg3ud]

First time I’ve seen the math explained in easy to understand format on drag and efficiency, great video!

[@TailosiveEV]

Glad it was helpful!

[@ChasingAptera]

Great analysis! It's always good to see the enthusiasm backed up with facts and figures.

[@evmotorsports]

Has the aptera been able to at least handle any hilly roads yet , even palomar east San Diego . And are they going to do airbags or side impact protection to even protect from a focus or f150 hit? This may be more important than ultimate range efficiency.

[@TailosiveEV]

Yes, they've gone up very steep inclines for extended periods. Only reason they struggled in the CNBC interview was the coolant tubes weren't hooked up on the motors. It's a show model not a production model

[@Sqeptick]

I become more desperate for this car to be produced with every Musk tweet.

[@vic321344]

Musk does not only tweet, he produces. Thats the difference.

[@JoachimFritz-i8f]

I wish Aptera would put more focus on the "second car" aspect. I live in rural Wisconsin and cannot rely on the "never charge" aspect, but that is not my main focus. Nearly every household in my sparsely populate area has two cars (or more) and I would bet no one drives more than 160 miles every day with both cars. Being able to charge 160 miles in my garage overnight from 110V makes all the negative talk about broken, long lines charging stations irrelevant.

[@stevesilsby5288]

Your figures and assumptions look good to me, Keep it up! I am desperately waiting to take delivery of my Aptera. My reserrvation number in the 22,000s seems to mean delivery no earlier than late 2026 or 2027, assuming single shift/single assembly facility. My greatest concern is the long time it takes CPC in Italy to press-mold the major BINC components. Has anyone revealed the number of complete unflawed sets thay can manufacture and ship each month? I don't imagine they can ramp up production numbers without Aptera machining (and paying for) many duplicates of the massive, expensive dies. I am not hopeful for fast production of the vehicle anytime soon. Worse, I DO NOT appreciate others buying places ahead of my reservation number with their investements in Aptera. A lot can change in the EV world over three years, especially with Tesla and BYD competing to get their minimal cost EVs on the market. There may be no place, economically, for the Aptera after those vehicles arrive. However, I am still waiting in line in case Aptera should get all the way to my number before their market evaporates.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

I placed the 42nd order placed for an Aptera - but I was never promised a production order number - only a special edition model, which I still expect to receive. The quality of the vehicles they will be delivering is FAR above the vacuum resin infusion bodied vehicles they were showing when they were introduced. I think the delay is well worth the increase in quality. The glass covered solar panels is another huge plus.

[@willempieffers6928]

I hope with you that they will make it to market and succeed, anddddd come to europe/spain!! 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@zencone]

I hope Aptera comes to northern california once the weather warms up for more folks in the bay area to put their butts in the drivers seat and see the sleek beauty in person.

[@bestman7776]

I think the only issue here is expectation..so the car may get 8 or 10 mi./kW, however people expect to have their heat or AC and music blasting, and every other possible creature comfort that they may or may not put in this vehicle and continue to get the same Miles per kilowatt. so I think it’s important to set the expectation from the beginning which I believe Tesla has not done

[@vorg_]

Pretty sure anytime its daytime, the radio will be powered by the sun.

[@phileasler5401]

Thru town, my Ariya does 5.0mile/kwt ~ 200 mpge, my e-bike around town gets ~1300 mpge, I do believe Aperta can do 10.0/kwt ~ 400 mpge easily

[@garywozniak7742]

The EPA uses the energy in one gallon of gasoline (33.7kWh) and divides it by the kWh/mile of the EV to calculate mpg-e. For the Aptera that is: 33.7kWh ÷ 0.10kWh/mile = 337mpg-e.

[@Readerb86g]

I am investing in "Troll-B-Gone" as we seem to have an infestation here. Getting a case and applying liberally.

[@carlodeguzman683]

Wasnt vw XL1 highway capable? That was 300mpg right?

[@marcmayou1422]

The sooner it comes out I am in.

[@justinw1765]

Originally Aptera was going to be made with fiberglass composite. For whatever reason, they decided to go with forged carbon fiber composite. Carbon fiber is significantly less dense than fiberglass, so if anything, the final production Aptera should weigh less than the estimated 1800lbs.

[@dougbrittsan-yn9sl]

Thanks Drew! I’m getting the LE but think if Aptera offered a 250 mile range with just one hub motor. That would have to be really efficient. Who will organize the first annual cannonball run? I’m in!!

[@telerye]

while i’ve canceled my preorder, i’m still hopeful Aptera can get production going.

[@MalteForstat]

@telerye: Do you mind telling why you canceled?

[@telerye]

@@MalteForstat Sure. It's a mix of a few things, in no particular order: 1. Multiple poor showings in media test drives. I've worked with pre-production machinery and software. You just don't let the public have access to something that has the possibility of failure, and I just can't overlook the oversight on not having systems enabled on what should have been a huge day for shoring up investments. 2. Unclear delivery timelines. Constantly missing/shifting deadlines mean that this purchase is not going to happen on a timescale that works for me. I've worked for startups. I get delays, but I need clear communication. Don't claim a year and then need multiple. 3. Unclear pricing & delivery tied to investment tiers. Having a launch edition product - the 400 mile est. version - only at launch I think is fine. What's less fine to me, is prioritizing the queue around dollars invested into the company (in the of 1,000s of dollars). To me this reads like these initial vehicles will go past the estimated prices and basically want those purchases locked in, otherwise the stock price drops and you're out on both sides of the equation. In the end, these items combine into a value proposition where I found it more economical to put solar on my property (almost 20 months ago now) that powers my entire house - and then some - so I can buy whatever car works best for me and my family instead of a niche car that might come out. And if it does , it would still be a long time coming even if I went for the supposed "launch version" as I won't be throwing $ into a stock purchase. Do I still want to see solar mobility take off? Absolutely! I hope Aptera is incredibly successful. I just don't see our timelines matching up for the next few years.

[@xjdisuehd]

For Apterra that's my perfect version - I want one with the largest possible battery pack but not with NCM batteries but with the LFP battery - long range, long life and theoretically a larger range since I can keep it at 90-100% unlike NCM where I'd have to keep it at 60-80% unless a road trip.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Chris Aanthony's last company uses LFP battieries. He knows as much about them as anyone. The BMS protects the battery pack from an unhealthy charge level. LFPs would add enough weight in comparison to decrease efficiency and they would also perform less well in Iowa, where I live. The range would be shorter and there is no certainty they would have better life, because they would be more loaded in everyday operation.

[@hedleypepper1838]

Pleased you referenced efficiency savings of hub motors. I have predicted the tesla model 2 "25,000" car will have dual rwd hub motors. As well as efficiency this maximises space in a small vehicle for batteries 🔋

[@PraiseYAyoupeople]

biggest drawback for aptera is 2 seats only. It will stop a lot of shoppers from buying.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

This first Aptera was never presented as anything other than a niche vehicle. What is certain is that the niche is FAR larger than Tesla's first vehicle, and the acceleration is better than the first Roadsters, even though billed as an "economy" vehicle.

[@BobDiaz123]

I sure hope that Aptera can make it to full production and is VERY successful. IF so, this would result in a change in the EV industry with other companies trying to copy it. We really need high efficiency EVs on the road.

[@ericjohnson3967]

I was able to do 6.25 kw/mi on the street with a BMW i3.

[@joeb4294]

I see greater than 6 mi/kwh in my 94ah 2017 BMW i3 REx under ideal conditions. But under ideal conditions, every other vehicle would also be exceeding its EPA rating. My i3 is EPA rated at 118 mpge which converts to 3.5 mi/kwh. If the Aptera is EPA rated at 10 mi/kwh, under ideal conditions it will likely be able to get 15 mi/kwh. The percentage gains available for the Aptera might be more limited since it is so aerodynamic, so avoiding higher speeds might not do as much - but this is actually a good thing.

[@mockingbird187]

Well said. I want them to succeed more than anyone else too!

[@CarlosBorroto]

Your efficiency analysis seems sound to my untrained eye. Where you loose me is when you make it sound like Aptera is giving you the functionality of a Model 3 at twice the efficiency. Look, if all you need in capabilities is covered by this 2 doors extremely small vehicle, I think you will do great getting one as there is anything like it in the market. However, there is a lot you can do with a Model 3 or any other 4 doors electric sedan you won’t be able to do with the Aptera.

[@GoClimbARockEh]

The main thing you'll be able to do in a model 3 vs an Aptera is carry more than one passenger. What else did you have in mind?

[@CarlosBorroto]

@@GoClimbARockEh again, this is not a criticism of the Aptera and more of the point on this video. I like the Aptera for what it is. Which is not a Model 3 or any other four doors replacement for most people. Of the top of my head: Child car seat Carry 5 adults Put a roof rack and triple your carrying capacity. I do this on my Model 3 Even without the roof rack carrying capacity for larger items particularly when lowering back seats

[@GoClimbARockEh]

@@CarlosBorroto fair points. Yeah it's not the one car for everyone, and I can't see it being the only car I own. But it will meet my needs for the vast majority of my driving

[@ddessert6]

Great video Drew. Something you want to keep in mind is the velocity of the vehicle. Your Tesla will do much better at 48 mph than at 65 mph. My old 94 Firebird is able to average 30 mpg on a tank of gas if I also average 50 mph and really keep the speed to no more than 68 mph. The Aptera is no different. 10 mi/kW is not hard to calculate if you use the US EPA speed for highway mileage, (48 mph). (I don't know anyone that drives on the highway at that speed and has lived to talk about it but the government has its standards.) The Aptera calculates to about 12 mi/kW at 48 mph but I know that is NOT very realistic just as the sticker on your new vehicle of xx mpg or mpge is not realistic for the way most people drive. At a speed of 70 mph the Aptera should get about 8 mi/kW but unless you are on some open highway, you are not going to be averaging 70 mph. (Take a look at what your average speed is for a charge and it is likely to be closer to 40 mph and even on a long road trip with an open highway, it is really hard to average 60 mph for 4+ hours.) A cD change of 0.13 to 0.14 actually is significant on a vehicle as efficient as the Aptera. Also, an extra 200 lbs makes a big difference as well. (My calculations were made with my wife and I in the Aptera with a total passenger weight of 385 lbs.) Unless there is a huge change, the Aptera will most likely have an EPA rating of 10 mi/kW but remember what they use for the speed of the vehicle for that measurement. The biggest factor is not the Aptera but how the driver drives the vehicle. I can easily get 30 mpg on my 94 Firebird but most people driving a vehicle like that get about 12 - 15 mpg at best. If you are driving 0-60 in 4s, don't count on getting anywhere near 10 mi/kW.

[@jamesbecker4326]

I think you are being to conservative with your aptera numbers. good video

[@LukeKwan78]

Has there been any crash test data so far ? I’m very interested in this for my son because it’s affordable but I need to know that they gonna be safe in this car.

[@johnhayes3314]

This has been discussed in many videos, and they will be doing crash testing fairly soon. The fact that it’s a monarch chassis made from carbon composite should give you confidence that it will be relatively safe. They’ve already shown that the roof crush rating is higher than any production vehicle.

[@richardryley3660]

Crash testing coming this year. I would watch it closely. Front on collisions look good in theory but side collision protection may be weak. It really depends on if the new body materials perform as expected. The Aptera will be WAY safer than any motorcycle, or even a trike like the Polaris Slingshot. It may even be safer than small smart cars. Again, it depends on if the side airbag protection is needed.

[@AverageJoe928]

​@@richardryley3660yep, I expect that side impact may be an issue due to the lack of side airbags coupled with how close an occupants head is to the side wall/pillar in the cabin. I don't think it'll stop the rollout of the vehicle since it's classified as an autocycle, but may give the naysayers some ammo with their view of it being unsafe sharing the road with 5k+ lb trucks/SUVs. Hope I'm proven wrong!

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@AverageJoe928 Unlike most cars, Aptera has a passenger safety cage protecting the passengers, and the seats have been moved inboard in the production intent vehicles, compared to the prototypes. Also many side impacts may first hit the front wheel pod, lessening direct force transferred directly to an occupant.

[@richardryley3660]

@@AverageJoe928 I am hoping side airbags are an option in later models. It will add weight, of course, which will reduce range a little, and it may be difficult to fit the mechanism inside the side pillar. So they may need to develop some new technology. But I would like an option for those who want more safety. That said, a lighter vehicle will bounce off the other vehicle in a collision and reduce the G-forces. I'm hoping that the crash tests show that a side collision will be survivable with just seat belts and and the strength of the passenger cage. I also don't know if this is common knowledge but there are structures in the door designed to sacrifice themselves to absorb the energy. It's not a crumple zone (not enough room) but it's supposed to work the same. We will have to see if it works as well as the simulation.

[@pan6593]

Drew, very logical and solidly conclusive, as always. The only thing I would note is that we don‘t have - at least I don‘t and do not remember any other source - numbers or specs of the wheel hub motors. Efficiency is an unknown (besides things like longevity and reliability). So there is a little coefficient we have literally no clue about. I don‘t expect that to throw your numbers out of the window, just a mentioning there is an unknown factor.

[@garywozniak7742]

If recall the original AWD configuration was going to use 3 50kW motors for a combined 150kW. It could do 0 to 60 in 3.5 seconds. The front wheel drive option used two 50kW motors up front. I believe they had Elaphe Motors optimize the motor to better match their application to improve the efficiency. I think the new motor is ~42.7kW. So the 3 motor AWD configuration is 128kW and the two wheel front wheel drive configuration is ~85kW.

[@jonjonsson2369]

Love the concept of this car - CLEVER !!!

[@Sippi81]

air resistance is probably not as important as long as you dont drive fast The low weight is mainly because its made of carbon imho but this will make this car expensive I realy wonder how the estimated price could be so low as it looks like for me it just like a concept car I wouldnt thrust the informations instantly but of course if they could make it true that would be great

[@ksnax]

The problem is that they have only ever presented best case scenarios. E.g., there is absolutely NO WAY the solar will be as much of a benefit to the average driver in the US as they keep suggesting. Sure, in California perhaps, parked with then panels perfectly optimized to collect the sun and no shadowing, maybe it can do what they are suggesting, but I am sitting here looking at my PV roof mounted array here in January and seeing 3% of it's rated production for the month every year it's been active. For at least half the year, it's under 50%. They really need to shut the hell up about how much range it can add because by all practical measures, it can't!

[@n.brucenelson5920]

I live in Iowa, and have some common sense. I don't expect it to perform like it would in Southern California, but it will still cost way less per month to own and drive than any other vehicle on the market now.

[@impreza99rs]

Great video!!😎👍❤️

[@christophers707]

With all the covers over the wheels what happens when you have a blowout will it cause damage?

[@timsmith6815]

A blow out, you think car tire are like retread truck tires. Tires don’t, BLOW out anymore!

[@christophers707]

@@timsmith6815 you really said these words WOW. So objects in roads never happen? Sorry to tell you tire blowouts still happen.

[@dougbrittsan-yn9sl]

Tim, my tire blew out. It got hit by a meteorite during that last earthquake.

[@steveneliason628]

Because the wheel covers go up and down with the wheel you will just be driving on your rim if you drive far enough to completely destroy the tire. The wheel covers are higher off the ground for production than on the prototype in the video. You are right on the prototype kill the tire and you could damage the covers.

[@stevemontana1878]

I think you hit the right tone here. I am skeptical they will hit 10 miles per KWh, but I don’t think they would miss by much. I do think 8 would be a major miss (I know you were just spitballing a number there), because while that is still good relatively speaking, there are too many tradeoffs and this is their differentiator. If the efficiency was that far off, it would have an even bigger effect on daily solar than range. I think above 9.25 is a win for them.

[@TailosiveEV]

My point was in the situations where Aptera gets 8, my model 3 would get 3.5

[@Dankflamio]

Can’t wait to confirm suspicions with a production model. It’s the most intriguing car of my life time to me.

[@theresjer]

Engineering Explained has a great math teardown on solar car potential

[@milohobo9186]

This is the one car that I'm excited about it. I can't justify owning one because of limted budget and having 3 kids, but I would otherwise be in line to buy one.

[@hedleypepper1838]

I want an aptera, seriously I do when will they be in rhd in the uk ?? 😊

[@n.brucenelson5920]

The original vacuum resin bodies had RHD designed. I don't know about what tooling changes will be required to provide UK compliant models with the carbon fiber/SMC. It is likely to be a function of funding.

[@vic321344]

The Aptera motorcycle cannot be registered in UK. It is too wide.

[@dmcarstensen]

If the Aptera qualified for the IRA Tax Credit I'd get it without hesitation but because I'm not rolling in disposable income I'm hesitant. On the flip side the more I learn about the Aptera, the more I'm open to the idea of not taking advantage of that tax credit.

[@ccibinel]

Thanks to the government for picking winners.

[@vic321344]

motorcycles dont get tax credits.

[@nickdfoxy]

It's like jabbing chopsticks into my eardrums when I hear someone pronounce "height" as if it's spelled "heighth".

[@HelmutBemboka]

Interesting video - gotta say though the constant video restarts are a bit over the top.

[@karlInSanDiego]

400 miles estimated range / 45 kWh = 8.889 m/kWH not 10. I appreciate that't you're trying to sanity check 10 m/kWh because it's a number Aptera have thrown around often over the years but you should avoid making 12.5% calculation error with the first calculation you describe about the car.

[@Tooradj]

The impact of unfavorable conditions like cold and rain on efficient vehicles can be more significant. Aptera will have to spend higher percentage of its stored energy for windshield wipers, heating the battery and heating the cabin. I suspect it will lose more range in miles than other EVs do.

[@TailosiveEV]

Aptera has 1 windshield wiper which is smaller than a single model 3 wiper

[@Tooradj]

@TailosiveEV I would still buy one just for their attitude toward the right to repair. It is getting ridiculous with $40K for a Rivian fender bender or $60K for EV6 battery replacement.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Aptera is citing EPA highway ratings now. An Aptera won't do that of course at interstate speeds in any conditions, but neither to ICE vehicles. I expect that here in Iowa my LE vehicle will still make it to Kansas City or Des Moines on a single charge even in winter on the interstate. That will be enough for me. If I needed more range, that will eventually be available.

[@badvertise]

why round down the model 3 frontal area but round up the aptera's? seems unnecessary

[@TailosiveEV]

Stacking the odds against Aptera because their data hasn't been proven yet, and they still pulled through by the end of the video. If my math was wrong it's wrong in Aptera's favor

[@abrodeur]

The couple times you modify the numbers half way though the calculation really confused me.(change the cross section of Aptera, rounding up the weight of Aptera). This makes it seam like are doing math to support perticual conclusion, rather then follow the math. Sure if you were doing in your head this would make sense but your just pluging them calculator. A more forumal analysis would use the numbers you get all the way thought then at the end disscuse why the finds might be off and how much if you change them would they effect the final numbers.

[@wbwarren57]

Nice analysis!

[@christover1]

X-Bus is still trying, but with little or no news, and no plans outside Europe, yet, it does not look positiive,

[@jacobB1290H]

The more efficient something is, the more the little details affect the range. Windy conditions or temperature could destroy the range. While slightly different tires could increase the range by up to 20 miles. Also why ICE cars don’t have that much noticeable decrease in range with different wheels and temperature

[@TailosiveEV]

It’s also because people don’t notice less range as much if you get 450+ miles in good conditions

[@VedaSay]

Its a very vague statement. On the contrary, given how efficient Aptera is, the changing situation will have far less impact to it vis-a-vis other vehicles say a ICE sedan. For example, a cross wind will have far less impact on aptera due to its profile compared to say a F150.

[@jacobB1290H]

@@VedaSay a 20% efficient ICE car with an original range of 450 miles. In the winter it efficiently goes 20% lower its efficiency decreases to 16%, the new range becomes 360 miles. A 95% efficient aptera / EVwith an original range of 1000 miles, when its efficiency decreases to 76%, the new range becomes 800 miles. That demonstrates that slight changes in efficiency become drastic changes in range for the aptera. In average winter conditions the range would 400-500 miles. Which is still very good. Just don’t expect to be getting 1000 miles Be ready for headlines saying “ aptera loses 600 miles of range in the winter while other EVs loose average of 100”

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@jacobB1290H Think of it in terms of cost per mile and still seems like a bargain, which it is both in terms of out of pocket cost and in environmental impact.

[@RunForPeace-hk1cu]

Their efficiency promises are definitely unrealistic. Bigger battery pack will obviously affect efficiency. Maybe with their smallest battery pack they can deliver their promises due to the lightweight nature of the car. Aside from that, I don’t expect it to exceed 8.5mile/kWh. Albeit still very impressive My chief concern is their ability to produce at scale. Most companies cannot survive that stage of the growth because they have to take on heavy losses before becoming profitable. It is vital that they can develop a cult following and loyal to the brand like Tesla did for their cars to survive

[@johncipolletti5611]

This vehicle is very aerodynamic. However, don't get hit by a heavier vehicle, like a bicycle.

[@markarbuckle8393]

Can we get some actual reviews, because that approach angle seems like it'll hit potholes and speed bumps

[@TailosiveEV]

I drove one on this channel. We went over several speed bumps with no problems. Its ground clearance is almost the same as my model 3 at 5.2”

[@n.brucenelson5920]

I have ridden in a prototype. The clearance is better than with my Honda.

[@Derpy1969]

Forget the 40 miles per day. That’s the max on the longest day on the sunniest day with the clearest skies. So cut it in half as an average. Maybe less. I can see Aptera getting 10mi/kwh at 60-65mph, against at BEST. So drop that by 20% on average. We can’t even talk about fast charging. I want it to ship, but even if it does, hi ow long will they last.

[@TailosiveEV]

We can… 60kw which is plenty for a 45kWh pack. Tesla rarely hits their numbers too but the point is Aptera would still be using less than half as much

[@johnhayes3314]

This is why they have a page on their web site so you can determine what kind of photons are expected based on scientific data. It is an average, NOT the best case as you stated

[@richardryley3660]

I think the solar range will depend more on geography than local seasonal changes. If the year is sunny 75% of the time then you will be generating full power 75% of the time, while if it is sunny 25% of the time, you will still generate half or better of your power 75% of the time. The length of the day isn't important because for every day that the sun goes down two hours early, it will go down two hours late six months later. If anything, you will be gaining sunny days in the summer, while losing overcast days in the winter when you aren't making that much anyway. I live in Texas, but I still expect to be able to keep an Aptera charged in the summer, while in the winter I may have to keep it charging on 110 in the garage. Are you planning to be driving at 100 mph? I don't know what you mean by fast charging, unless you're talking about the slow rate. Remember, you only need.10 kw per mile. You can put 100 or 200 miles of charge on it, and drive home. You won't even be able to charge it for a full hour, because it will be full!

[@robertkirchner7981]

The estimate is based on the AVERAGE daily solar exposure in San Diego CA.

[@johnreeves7261]

While not relevant to Aptera's "efficiency", may I suggest that you ditch the 40 miles per day from the solar. Aptera doesn't even mean to make that claim. They generally try to say UP TO 40 miles a day assuming (insert conditions here). Maybe just say something like 10,000 miles per year from solar. That's about what Aptera's calculator spits out for a "medium (solar) exposure" location.

[@dioncurline3266]

Hay love ya channel do you think they will do a right hand drive model

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Yes, eventually.

[@terryburke2587]

All of their efficiency will go to crap when you turn on the HVAC system in the Midwest. We have extremely cold winters and hot summers. HVAC will be needed in almost all months of the year. This seems to be the battery killer.

[@MrSporkster]

Yikes, just look at the way it bounces all over the place on a regular road in good condition. One speed bump or pothole, and it's history. o_O

[@bobbresnahan8397]

The only car other than a Cybertruck that I want.

[@mrmichrom8553]

Pauses. Do you do them?

[@Tneo7]

He does in longer less edited videos like test drives, but the sit downs his editing software that he uses that clips them together, pause would be nice the videos sound like some one that had way to much coke and cant stop talking.

[@clauderouet4141]

i order one 4 years ago , i am in france , so it seem they will not respect delivery list , i scare still aptera will fail to produce as expected , and the business plan is cnaged alway , be a investor or not , all thatseeem maketing ; lauch edition , etc etc , in 2020 it was progamed for 2022 first dilivery , we are now and 2024 and will no serial leave . i hope some chineese will made similar , when china want , they can !

[@Gargamoth]

Will there be a factory in the USA? If not I'm not interested.

[@gerritgovaerts8443]

Total rolling resistance (sum of RR of all wheels) is NOT effected by the number of wheels as the weight gets distributed just differently . If the weight and RR coefficient (same tires) are the same the total rolling resistance ends up completely equal.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

This is incorrect, as a little thought would show you. The increase in number of wheels increases weight and air resistance. Neither of these factors are the same if you add a 4th wheel.

[@gerritgovaerts8443]

@@n.brucenelson5920 I did restrict my argument to keeping the weight equal and to rolling resistance only (not air resistance) . Ofcourse with 1 wheel less , weight may go down marginally , I realize that . What I want to refute however is that by having only 3 wheels instead of 4 , all other things being equal , you suddenly end up with only 75% of the rolling resistance . That is definitely not true . Assuming equal weight distribution (not a necessary assumption , but it makes it easier) , the weight on each wheel for a 1000 kg 4 wheeled car is 250 kg (1000/4) . A 3 wheeled vehicle of equal (1000 kg) weight has 333.333... kg per wheel . Given a typical coefficient of rolling resistance (Crr) of 0.01 for a car tire , the rolling resistance of each wheel in the 1st case is F=g*M*Crr or F=9.81*250*0.01=24.525 Newton . For the total resistance of all 4 wheels we get 4*24.525=98.1 Newton . In the second (3 wheeler) case , we have per wheel F=333.33*9.81*0.01=32.7 and for 3 wheels together this also sums up to 98.1 Newton , exactly the same as in the 4 wheeler case . Quod erat demonstrandum .

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@gerritgovaerts8443 But all things are not equal, and we know that to start with. The argument only works if you make false beginning assumptions.

[@gerritgovaerts8443]

@@n.brucenelson5920 The only false assumption I make is that I ignore the weight saving of 1 less wheel which is not a lot any way compared to the total mass of a vehicle . I should have said "The number of wheels does not significantly impact rolling resistance" . In terms of air resistance however , 3 wheels have the potential of increacing air resistance by increasing the frontal area (instead of 2 tracks , you now have 3)... Don't get me wrong , I have nothing against the Aptera design decisions , on the contrary , being a big Aptera fan , I admire it highly for its efficiency , and hope they sell a ton of them . I just hope I got my point across that by going 3 wheels instead of 4 , you do not magically get rid of 25% of your rolling resistance , ceteris paribus . You will , but only if you lower mass by 25% or mount better tires with a 25% lower Crr.

[@vic321344]

@@gerritgovaerts8443 And one should also notice that the third wheel stands directly in the airstream, creating its resistance, while the rear wheel is in the airshadow of the front wheel on 4 wheel drive cars,