Is Battery Swapping The Future Of Electric Car Charging? We Visit A NIO Swap Station To Find Out

[@chaukeram]

You also mentioned battery degradation… I think another positive about battery swapping is that you can upgrade your battery anytime you want (75 -> 100kw to 150 (when that comes out). You don’t need to buy a new car when battery technology improves too. Ok I’m done 😁

[@The_DuMont_Network]

I am unawate that Tesla will update the system to reflect a different sized battery. Especially if it were installed by others. In fact, I don't believe they will.

[@davidarmour7766]

Sounds great until the day you get stuck with a bad battery.

[@The_DuMont_Network]

@@davidarmour7766 I've got another 6 years of warranty to worry about that. By that time I will likely have traded up. I spent $11K on a new engine/transaxle on a 6 year old Buick at 150K miles. I really think a total battery failure at 8 years is as unlikely as being hit by lightning. If it hasn't failed by then. Its unlikely to fail in such a short time.

[@BGNOO7]

@@The_DuMont_Network don't supercharge regularly you can save your battery

[@alexnutcasio936]

@@The_DuMont_Networkask a guy who owns a 9 year old Model S. Some have about a 100 mile range the battery has degraded so poorly.

[@MiticDane]

In the 3rd-Gen battery swap station the car will still operate and not turn off anymore and the charging will take only 2mins 👍 It's expected to start rolling out in Spring 2023

[@fitybux4664]

That whole, drive into box, parking assisted maneuver probably looks cool the first time you use it, then you'd wonder why cars aren't driving straight through. (He said some of the other stations are like that, but I think consistency is important, or people get confused.)

[@jimdiet8534]

@@fitybux4664 I lived in a small town in north-west Pa. The drive through beer distributor was quite prevalent. A drive through Battery swap while you're picking up your beer would be awesome. 😀

[@9176471092]

Hope so

[@flujori]

but at what cost.

[@silys5253]

Hey Kyle. Gen3 will soon come. Will swap in 2 minutes. I heard that they will keep 12Volt on when Gen3 comes. Reason to turn of 12 Volt is to prevent discharge of 12 Volt battery. But since Gen3 is so much quicker they may leave 12Volt on. Swap Station connects to car. It can do software updates while you are in.

[@elic.2443]

I was just going to mention the same thing. Gen 3 is going to solve most the things he mentioned for upgrading the experience

[@fuelbasti]

@@elic.2443 same 😅

[@alexmanojlovic768]

@@elic.2443 except long term cost. Nio's aren't going to get cheaper over time, as, the more Nio's & their sucker partners there are on the road, the more of these & the more batteries you need to always have batteries available for swap. So costs will hardly come down over time. Whereas any other EV firm, faster charging, cheaper batteries, there's less advantage for this ridiculously expensive method to soothe Charge Time FUD. Recent figures say 1,000 stations planned for OUTSIDE CHINA by.... 2025..... Not good enough...

[@elic.2443]

@@alexmanojlovic768 I'll agree to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think it's the future. For many, many reasons. Just like you think the opposite. Time will tell who's correct

[@alexmanojlovic768]

@@elic.2443 again. Battery availability (& cost) is ALL EV makers biggest concern, so for Nio etc to have a shed load sitting in charging stations affects all the other EV makers ability to... PRODUCE EV's. They're making the move to EV's more difficult & costly.

[@AlexisArreola]

Interesting that you swap the battery, PLUS updated the software to NIO ASPEN 3.2.5, this is VERY COOL!

[@rededwards3479]

Great video...What makes your videos great is that you answer everyone's questions withOUT being asked a single question...it's like the viewer is there. .You have Talent!

[@TheMkoester]

Exactly! And it is really great that you have come to Europe, great angle of comparison!!

[@nc3826]

everyone's questions???? lol

[@californiaprince]

Good news is that Nio 3.0 battery swap stations will swap each bettery in 2-3 min and will hold 26 batteries.

[@mukamuka0]

I think if they made it as drive through, they could save a lot of time (car don't have to move much, swapping can begin faster). well but it's might take a more space from parking lot.

[@californiaprince]

@@mukamuka0 Nio 3.0 swapping stations hold batteries on both sides and use two carts instead of one which double stored batteries and cut swapping time in half.

[@youngbob358]

are you sure?

[@georgewilliam6318]

@@mukamuka0 In China, they have battery swap station where batteries are stored underground and stores more batteries than this one. They have different designs. NIO always looks at how many NIO are one the area just like gasoline stations. If they know there are many cars they build more gasoline stations.

[@raylab77]

I think 3.0 holds 21 batteries, but yeah the future will show.

[@travisp11]

I think a battery swap for the USA that takes about the same amount of time it takes me to get through In and Out Burger is a best case scenario. I really like this concept for a situation where my battery is at its end of life and it wouldn’t require me to take the car into a dealer for an expensive battery change. I’m an American and I’m all for it.

[@flashrvn6921]

The cost wise, Nio is charging a very high premium for the battery rental, 6 years of rental equals to the cost you pay for the new battery (About 3K USD a year rental cost vs About 15K USD a new battery).

[@wizzyno1566]

@@flashrvn6921 thats 5 years.

[@Godzzbinzz]

@@flashrvn6921 it's convenience that's the benefit. A full charge in roughly same time it would take to refill your vehicle at a gas station

[@mengstanley9681]

You can still buy the battery for good instead of renting it, and also swap it when needed. Renting is not a prerequisite for using the swapping service.

[@jimc1654]

@@mengstanley9681 that a bad business model. So it's not going to work. The whole swapping thing is a bad business model. The only way it works is if the customer pay high premium for it.

[@David34981]

Those that claim it doesn't make any sense, imho, don't know what they are talking about. Swap can improve a lot by simple measures. Make note that Kyle had to compare it to the fastest charging car in the world (apart from Lucid perhaps) to even be able to consider it could be equal. And those cars are really expensive. Meanwhile swap can actually be integrated in much cheaper cars. NIO has multiple sub-brands in the pipeline, and the technology can also be acquired by other brands. Also consider the grid connections required for DC fast charging at those speeds (350kW+) at scale. If they tweak the timing for swap, which is clearly possible, it will wipe away any 800V ultracharging easily. Charging remains really important, but on highway corridors battery swap has a lot of potential. Also on the outskirts of cities where many people are unable to charge at home. So don't say it doesn't make any sense, cause that's a visceral reaction without any sound argument behind it.

[@wenhuili5804]

What all you want will be realized in 3rd generation battery swap stations which will be announced in NIO day next month. You will see them sometime next year. It will be less than 3 minutes and screen will be on.

[@nc3826]

I read in August they were already rolling them out... And Norway is supposed to be getting them.... Maybe we better swapping station was set on slow lol

[@KNine36]

I don’t think Americans understand how needed this is for our most populated cities. Cities like New York where most people live in apartments and have no place to charge over night or wait the 30 minutes at a charging station, it’s perfect to just swap the battery in the same time it takes to fill up a gas car. I think battery swap stations can make it easier for the yellow cabs here in nyc to adjust into electric cars because it can get them on the road a lot quicker.

[@vitolu6727]

Geely has battery swap stations in certain cities in China specifically for taxis.

[@a1000island]

New York is a crime literally waiting to happen

[@martyvictor363]

People need to understand when you buy a Tesla or Lucid you will be stuck with the same battery until you pay over $20k for a new one. With a NIO you always have the LATEST battery technology. NIO just announced a 150KW battery today. That's 1000 KM.range. and you will never be stuck with a $20,000 boat anchor at trade in time. Nobody will buy an EV with a battery ready to croak. Nov 26 2022- NIO's semi-solid-state battery supplier, Beijing WeLion New Energy Technology, began rolling out its solid-state power battery cells, marking a major milestone for the company and paving the way for its delivery to NIO.

[@princeobasi]

🤣 It's funny how with every improvement and progress in convenience, there's still something to complain about a little. There was clearly an upgrade that happened in the process of the swap. 6 mins to swap, compared to 30mins+ on fast charge. What exactly could you be itching to do? Screens? press your phone, drink your coffee, read something. Take a breather. 😄

[@intertube1000]

great idea. In China, many people live in high rise apartment building, not all parking structure has charging station, so battery swap is great. not everybody can charge their battery at home. and only takes 5 min. I hope they to come to USA soon.

[@The_DuMont_Network]

Makes about as much sense as the high rise automobile vending machine Carvana or someone has installed in a few locations.

[@keco185]

But wouldn't it be easier to install a bunch of trickle chargers in the parking structure than a bunch of these swap stations in what is an already crowded city? Especially if the swap station only works for 1 brand of vehicle

[@The_DuMont_Network]

@keco185 BINGO! Give the man a cigar! Level 2 chargers are wayyy cheaper.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

@@The_DuMont_Network and you don't need 1,000's of unused batteries sitting around when they could be in an EV removing another poisonous ICE off the roads.... But... Nio Swap supporters.... 🤦

[@nicynu6202]

@@The_DuMont_Network Yes the level 2 charger is cheaper but with a lot of older apartments they do not have the capacity to have a level 2 charger for every car spot without new cables being pulled into the building, this is very expensive. I believe new apartment buildings will allow for chargers.

[@rayng4336]

I'm for battery swapping, they are correctly charged and conditioned to give max range. And the health of the battery is monitored too.

[@jonzo22]

That's amazing. So in the future worn out batteries are not an issue any more.

[@KenKnowledge]

Keep in mind theres a newer variant of battery swap station which makes the process go even faster then the one in this video and I think the prolonged boot up was due to the fact that it got updated with aspen, the latest User interface for the car. Now should se if you could find any softare glitches. By the way, bought some more Nio shares and read up alot about the brand. Im in love. :)

[@The_DuMont_Network]

Sorry. No Chinesium cars likely with parts made of Unobtanium for me

[@fitybux4664]

Don't update my car randomly without telling me. Also, allow me to opt-in/opt-out or delay updates.

[@ephraimhill1109]

I think swappable batteries are a great idea, maybe not for regular charging but it's a great option to be able to switch out a battery cheaply if there is a problem with it.

[@a-don13]

do you think it is the ideal form of recharging for robotaxis? i don't see it happening now

[@Mrbfgray]

Far better to have a pack without problems and all the associated penalties of swapping capability.

[@silys5253]

You can upgrade the battery too.

[@nicoev4851]

Why not for regular charging as well?

[@ericaschner3283]

@@nicoev4851 Would seem reasonable to me. If you drive 12k miles/yr and you get ~350 miles on on 90% 100kWh battery (they claim 420 miles fully charged) then you'd need 34 swaps per year or just under 3 per month, which he said was an available sub level. Comparable range and time to gas, and cheaper.

[@AndreaDeBernardi]

You can upgrade a 75k to 150k (in 2023) on a monthly basis... let that sink in.. Battery swap is NOT about quick and fast. is about flexibility, safety and resale value. But if you want it fast, Gen3 stations (2023) will swap in 2 minutes. That es8 was designed 7 years ago. in 7 years, it will be able to accommodate whatever new battery tech will be available (200k full solid state? or even more?) Nobody can offer that. In china they have a reverse swap, if you have free charge at home/employer, you can swap your 90% or more battery for a 10% one (or whatever needed to get you home) and get Nio point for that. This last one might not be a super common scenario, put puts you in perspective of what a Swappable ecosystem can do. I can stress that enough, CHARGING TIME IS NOT THE MOST ATTRACTIVE FEATURE! (by the way... charging during pouring rain? they have you cevered! :P ) Thanks for the great content

[@typhooney]

I’m surprised I had to scroll this far down to see this explanation. To summarize, BaaS, battery as a service is what NIO is betting on. You pay a monthly cost and you don’t have to worry about the battery, ever, because it’s not yours. When it degrades or if it’s damaged, you get a new one from nio. When NIO comes out with 97th gen batteries, it will still fit in the same battery housing. Different sized battery offerings whether it’s 75kw, 100kW, or 150kw, they all fit in the same batter housing. So to the folks saying it’s not scalable, that’s all been thought of already and actually mandated by the Chinese government to ensure that it’s cross compatible with other vehicles/models as well. It’s not one option vs another, we are humans, we are lazy and we like convenience. Some people might want to charge their car, some might want swap. These stations at volume play a vital role in on/offloading power to and from the grid as well. Will it be a game changer and revolutionize the charging industry, no. Does it add another option for consumers to consider and increase competition within the industry, hell yea.

[@AndreaDeBernardi]

@@typhooney well said,

[@syncmaster915n]

This is only the first iteration of a swapping station. I'm pretty sure there will be modification and improvement in the future, like as the host suggested, drive in, drive out; similar to going into an automatic carwash, totally hand free.

[@RM-sd5yw]

Their 3rd gen batt swap station will be more efficient. Carries 22 batteries and will only take 2mins to swap and power on the car will stay on. Also, the batteries will be charged with 500volt speed.

[@badmonkey2917]

As an Norwegian living in Vestby i could for sure change my mod 3 performance for a nio and would use this system a lot

[@AndreaDeBernardi]

do it!

[@David34981]

Go for it!

[@georgewilliam6318]

In China, NIO has battery swap station with a much larger storage capacity and the batteries are stored underground. They also have a station where there's only one entrance and one exit. They have different designs.

[@andrewsavage6738]

Five minutes you can't beat that. This is incredible.....!!!!!!!!!

[@iSot80]

Next 3rd gen swap station will do that in less than 3 minutes :)

[@onetwothreefour-s1n]

Third Gen next year the vehicle will stay on. And the old battery and new battery will be on separate trays and paths so it'll be 1/2 the time. The nuts and bolts are replaced during normal vehicle maintenance. If you've seen the 1000km challenge from bjorn this thing stomps the model x by an hour.

[@nc3826]

CATL Launches Battery Swap Solution EVOGO Featuring Modular Battery Swapping

[@InfoSecGuardian]

I'd like to see a small permanent mount battery at maybe 40 kWh, and in addition be able to add a 75 kWh swap capable battery as needed. It would allow one to shed weight for short trips, which also enhances performance; whereas, also allows for extended trips with easy Nio like swapping. It's unclear why you think this wouldn't work in the USA. Seems an ideal solution regardless of country.

[@ojeskog]

Battery swap makes perfect sense if you don't have home charging but live close to a swap station. You book a time slot and head there maybe once or twice a week for your every day driving needs. For road trips plenty load balances high powered chargers in many locations along the main roads is key. To have a 10-15min bathroom break and a leg stretch every few hours isn't too bad then.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

When I pulled in at a motorway services in my boss's Mercedes Sprinter, just for a pee (we NEVER fill up at expensive services) it ALWAYS took 20 minutes, from pulling off the motorway, just for a pee & hitting the carriageway again. What's the hassle with half hour recharge? 1d10ts who believe the 🐂💩 the scared Oil companies & ICE makers have been putting out to stop EV take-up.

[@emilschulz9888]

NIO and the batteryswapsystem is the best what could have happened to the EV industry. NIO is a winner!

[@andrewt9204]

This really makes the most sense for large trucks. I feel like DCFC a 4-500kW battery is not practical for a variety of reasons. At least not for over the road trucking. A garbage truck or delivery box truck that parks overnight, sure, plug-in charging can work great. Slower charging a battery pack at a swap station like this will improve battery degradation, even though chemistries have gotten better, it's still a problem from a sustainability and environmental impact. Huge progress has been made in recycling already, but that still takes some extra energy and chemical waste, nowhere near as much as virgin material production of course. Seems like this would also make sense for cars that reside in denser cities where plugging in at condos and apartments isn't possible. Would allow those people to have more practicality in EV ownership. And in that scenario, EV's are great. Pure city driving is hell on ICE cars, but a breeze for EV's. My 2009 RAV4 with 200k @ 85% highway miles was in much better shape mechanically than city cars of the same age with only 60k miles.

[@TheRealPin]

What else on an electric car degrades and you need to replace? With a battery subscription, and the ability to swap your battery at any time, you could potentially own the car substantially longer. Would be good for companies who have fleets of cars as well.

[@marcoa3821]

NIO is the way to go… SWAP & DRIVE vs wait & charge! Choice of different range batteries based on your needs. Upgraded Battery without buying a new car! No need to worry about a defect battery! More and more battery stations will be built! So blue sky is coming… cheers

[@brushlessmotoring]

Amazing content as always! I think it did a quick software update, that might have been part of the slow restart. I'm a fan of the idea too, because there is no downside even if it doesn't work out long term. I have a Tesla, I've done 950 mile a day / 1500 km a day EV road trips, and once you have charging over 200kW for about 10 minutes, you don't really need battery swaps, but, it is a sticking point for a lot of people who have never rented an EV and road tripped in it to see what charging is actually like as part of a washroom and coffee or lunch break, so I really welcome NIO investing in this and hopefully making it work, worst that happens is the stations eventually go away for cost or mechanical reasons, and people stick with plugging in their batteries just like other brands. Having staff 24/7 and having a rack of batteries on standby must make this expensive though ... I do like the idea the packs can be charged at cheap or low CO2 times, rather than having to take whatever the CO2 mix is at the time you need a fast charge - the energy trading aspect of those swap stations will be interesting too - and the idea you can swap in different sized packs, or packs with newer chemistries is pretty compelling. Looking forward to seeing how this goes in Europe as well as any stats from its rollout in China.

[@先生S-p1h]

In 2023, Nio will launch liquid-cooled ultra-fast charging piles with a peak power of 500kW and a peak current of 650A, as well as the third-generation power stations.

[@crtmojo2705]

It’s similar to Teslas battery storage centers except you can also swap the batteries into vehicles. It has the capability to supply power to nearby areas in a blackout and to charge with renewables.

[@vnitto]

😂 time well spent

[@gregvanpaassen]

It's not a lot of extra batteries, though. If one station can do 20 vehicles per day and people swap once per week normally, that's only 13 extra batteries on top of the 140 in the cars. If the station had two swap bays, one each side of the battery storage/charge bay, then it would be 13 extra over 280. Having two swap bays will greatly reduce the chance of having to wait for an empty swap bay too. With swapping, the manufacturer controls the reputation of its batteries, which is worth something too.

[@crtmojo2705]

@@gregvanpaassen good point. Depending on demand; the batteries can charged slowly or supercharged in 15 mins for quick turnaround.

[@Kac2rhyme2]

Being from the states I thought changing out battery was kinda slow but 3-5 min this is as fast as filling up your ice car really

[@fitybux4664]

Wait, the swap comes with ice cream? N/m, I misread. 😆

[@TheMkoester]

It is really great that you have come to Europe, great angle of comparison!! We need that in order to see the best development-strategies, welcome to Sweden too, would be VERY different to Norway...what are your future plans? Regards! /Michael

[@jamesmatthew2677]

This is great. Considering the size of the swap station, it would be nice if multiple manufacturers could standardize the batteries and the mounting system so that a station could serve a larger group of owners. It would not be practical for every car company to create their own network of battery stations.

[@badfaceday7509]

Yeahh, standardization would be nice, but not likely to happen. Just look at all the controversy surrounding different charging sockets. Is CCS, Tesla (NACS) or the Chinese plug best.??? You can't agree on that either...

[@alexmanojlovic768]

The downside is, if this takes off, you're looking at queues which defeats the object. Also, once all the batteries are swapped out for flat batteries, they need charging, which slows down availability of swapping to a full battery in 3 minutes... You better all hope Nio remains niche & unpopular!

[@fitybux4664]

@@alexmanojlovic768 easy "fix". Market cost of replacement batteries goes up. Supply and demand. He said "around $10 to swap", but that could be 10x if there is 10x more demand.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

@@fitybux4664 then nobody takes up swapping & Nio goes bust, because a large part of their ongoing profit stream stops (or implodes, at least) & they have $millions in battery inventory & unpaid for (yet) swap stations sitting around unused. Also, possibly Swap Station ground rent in many locations, around the world.

[@feuerherz007]

​@@badfaceday7509europe will enforce it again:)

[@seniordockman2946]

We recently traveled to the Midwest from North Carolina in a Model Y, and it was quickly evident that the charging experience would add a lot of time to the trip. At least twice we had to charge higher than we wanted to in order to reach the next charger. That took longer than expected. We also charged at two locations that were inconvenient to

[@kevintdickson]

That's a fair criticism of Tesla. But since NIO's system is actually more expensive per station, and they are 10 years behind Tesla, their system ain't happening in North America. In 2007, battery swap seemed like the best solution, but Tesla has safely increased charging rates enough to make battery swap obsolete for the US. In cities with high population density in China, battery swap may still make sense, because folks is high rises often can't charge at home.

[@0505naya]

캘리포니아에서 살고 있는 데도 먼거리 여행 계획을 세울 때에는 어디에 충전소가 있는지 앱에서 충전소 위치를 찾아 본 경험이 있습니다. 여행을 떠나기 전에 충전소가 어디에 있는지 미리 알아봐야 되고 또 충전 시간이 얼마나 걸릴 지 잘 생각해 봐야 하고 또 얼마나 자주 충전을 해야 되는 지에 대해서도 꼼꼼이 계획해 보는 것 자체만으로도 고민이 되네요. 테슬라 차량을 안 가지고 계신 분들이거나 전기차에 대해 자세히 모르시는 분들은 막연히 충전소에서 30분 정도 충전하는 동안 근처 커피숖에 들어가거나 몰에 들어가 쇼핑을 하면서 시간을 보내면 되지 않나하며 의하해 하실 겁니다. 아니면 차안에 앉아서 넷플릭스로 영화를 보면 괜찮지 않나요?하며 반문을 하시는 분도 계시지 않으실까 합니다. 하지만 막상 여행을 가다보면 이런 저런 다양한 상황이 발생할 수 있다는 것을 전제하면 큰 고민거리임을 부인할 수 없습니다. 만약 미국에도 배터리 교체소가 많이 분포돼 있고 여행할 때마다 잠시 이용할 수 있다면 전 선택하고 싶은 옵션이라고 생각됩니다.

[@先生S-p1h]

In 2023, Nio will launch liquid-cooled ultra-fast charging piles with a peak power of 500kW and a peak current of 650A, as well as the third-generation power stations

[@TheAeroegg]

If you are relying on the Tesla trip computer, I found it doesn't always provide the best charging stop recommendations. I just did a 4,700 mile road trip in my S Plaid through some pretty remote areas and there were several times when the trip computer said I should fully charge to get to a particular charging station when it was totally unnecessary because there were plenty of charging stations in between but weren't identified. I pretty much ignore the trip computer's recommendation and find all the stations along my route and pick where I want to stop which is about 2 - 3 hours of driving and 15 - 20 minute charging sessions.

[@seniordockman2946]

@@TheAeroegg Do you use a particular app to find all available charger on a given route

[@onetwothreefour-s1n]

Swap stations also sell electricity back to the grid in china. They work directly with the electricity providers to assist during peak demand. That and the batteries never being out of date are the real benefits. Gen 3 will be double the battery capacity and faster times....also faster unit charging......and the vehicles are 10-20 grand cheaper if u rent the batteries.

[@WhynotMinot]

This is pretty impressive how quickly and easily it swaps the battery. Some pros are ease of access, replaces quickly, and is pretty cheap. Now while there are pros right now, I definitely see many cons right now. Batteries are really expensive to make, and it's an expensive idea to replace most vehicles with bev's, but if there were these battery swap places all over the country, now you are going to need extra bateries for people to swap with, and that adds up if it's all over the usa. Another con is how expensive and complicated these stations are. If something goes wrong, how long does it take to fix them? Another con I see, are all the different bev manufactures there are. There would need to be a universal battery or specific restraints on bev designers, so that the battery can be swapped, no matter the vehicle. There is also a problem if there are more than one kind of battery packs. I know this is in its early stages, but this seems really impractical in most settings, even more so than switching to bev's are.

[@gregvanpaassen]

Check out Ample, who are working with other EV manufacturers besides Nio to have standardized battery swapping across brands.

[@nc3826]

CATL Launches Battery Swap Solution EVOGO Featuring Modular Battery Swapping

[@backcountryFLcyclist]

In this system an owner would never have to worry about degradation over the life of the battery pack.

[@flujori]

yeah but do you think they did not calculate this into the cost of battery supscription ? do you think NIO is a non-profit ? you'l pay for it, plus like it was stated in the video, for BEV's battery degradation is no big deal anymore.

[@genxchas]

Awesome 👍😎 NIO will change the electric car experience 💯

[@pandabear5746]

Nio Swap Station Generation 3 is coming with 2 minutes swap time and more batteries storage.

[@Roman-re1yg]

It's pretty simple really, the more options to replenish the battery the better. And then there are all the reasons most people don't think about. A Nio owner will never have his/her car in the garage for days or weeks if there is a battery issue. the faulty battery will simply get taken out of circulation in a few minutes at a swap station. Nio cars will always have a much higher used value than any other brand because the buyer will not care what state the battery (most expensive part of the car) is in since it can be swapped minutes after buying the car. As an EV driver myself I think swapping is brilliant and I can't wait to see the 3rd Gen swap stations NIO will unveil at NIO day next month! Thanks for the video! Keep covering NIO!

[@kontomylitis]

This is the most detailed battery swap conversation I've ever seen. I just subbed. Thanks for sharing this.

[@kevinwang6147]

Best swap battery video ever, keep up dude

[@David_Quinn_Photography]

I live in the US and think this could be a way to do charges if it's as easy as taking a base plate off and the battery comes out like old laptop batteries do then this system would be great for city cars, charge the batteries at none peak hours and just have batteries on stand by during the day.

[@ericaschner3283]

I think the reason they have 12 batteries is because it takes 5 minutes per car. The station looks big enough to hold more, but there's no reason to (assuming you don't bring in multiple bad batteries in a row). If you're continuously swapping at peak that gives each battery a full hour to charge which should be plenty to go from 0% to 90% in most cases. So if you wanted to charge at off peak you'd likely need to hold an entire day's worth which could be 100+.

[@biddie868]

Wait for gen 3, it takes only 2 mins

[@ericaschner3283]

@@biddie868 And has 26 batteries, right? 2:20 * 26 = 1 hour

[@depigeonroi8301]

Your concerns about the practility of battery swaping make sense. However, I need to tell you that there are some 30 million people and a lot of NIOs here in Shanghai, and they are working well for years. During some craziest holiday rushes you have to wait in line for 30+ mins while other EVs have to wait for charing guns for several hours :). Overall ,the battery swap takes less time than charging at Tesla super charing station.

[@pauldoan180]

I've Been doing that for 40 years with electric forks lifts funny I was thinking why haven't they done that for cars . thanks for posting Kool!

[@jamesmedlar8760]

Why wouldn’t you want battery swap capabilities. This eliminates the number one anxiety next to range, the worry of how long the battery will last and the cost of replacing the battery if something should go wrong with it. This ensures that you will never have to worry about battery degradation for the life of your vehicle. Imagine if you could swap out your combustion engine whenever you wanted, as for electric motors like the ones found in a Nio or Tesla….. they last for a loooooong time!. Electric motors are essentially immortal. Their bearings may require replacement after each 40,000 hours operation (4,000,000 km in an auto), the windings may need replacement after each 100,000 hours operation (10,000,000 km). The frame and rotor are essentially immortal. Many electric generating stations are still using original generators installed 100 years ago.

[@DanielBoger]

I love that these cars can fast charge or swap. I think this could have a place in the USA. Especially for something like fleet vehicles. I also think something like this would be smart for semi trucks. I imagine that semi’s will take a lot of power and time to charge. If the pack could be swapped and charged more slowly that would probably be better for the life pack.

[@troosimimimmi]

fleet means seheduled downtime level 2 is enough . defeats purpose of ev going eco using excess power at night.

[@gadgetgasspoll2923]

in China, Geely's trucks can already do battery swaps

[@gadgetgasspoll2923]

Here's the link kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnnKqGV8gaeVfck

[@lisam4503]

I really don't see electric semi-trucks as useful enough beyond just city use. The idea of commercial long haul electric semi-trucks I see as way off in the future. Hydrogen is a better Commercial trucking solution. But even that is still off in the future.

[@DanielBoger]

@@lisam4503 hydrogen may have use for long haul trucks, but I just don’t see it. H2 is hard to keep in storage, just look at how many issues SLS had before the Artemus launch. Realistically long haul could lean on battery swap, fast charging batteries, or even something new

[@bret551]

It feels like on a ride at Universal Studio listening to the voice instructions. I am 100% for battery swap so I don't need to worry about a bad battery. I saw the news before that a Tesla owner says he’s been locked out of his car due to the dead battery until he pays $26,000 for a new battery.

[@frankiedehockie]

When you put in for a swap - the system tells you how many cars ahead of you - so you are not coming and finding cars there.

[@lisam4503]

Glad to see you in Europe gaining knowledge about what's going to be coming to America. A lot of American's are ignorant to the fact Europe is way ahead of us on this stuff and kind of the test bed for it! So hopefully as more of this arrives in America most of the bugs will be ironed out! We get better products then they started with.

[@TheMkoester]

Hej Lisa! I am not really that informed (though I am driving electric) - is it true that Europe is ahead? (Ok, Norway I know its leading..). And it is true for us being the test bed? Would like to know more!! 🙂

[@lisam4503]

@@TheMkoester At this point you have way more options of EV's to buy. You are probably where we will be in 2025 now or later. Next year we get the Alfa Romeo Tonale as the Dodge Hornet. If you look at just Stellantis across their lines they make something like 19 EV's and X amount of Hybrids. The Hornet will be the first on full EV by them here and we have a few hybrids. Ford and GM are each producing a couple EV's now. EV's are 43% of new car sales in the EU but only 5.5% in the U.S. There is a lot of resistance to EV's here. If you have ever been here you might understand why. America is huge and we have no where near the public transportation system in Europe. I spent a few years in Berlin and travelled a little around West Germany. It was when the wall was up. I loved the German transportation system.

[@brandenflasch]

@@TheMkoester 100%.

[@TheMkoester]

@@TubeMeisterJC I give nothing on the blinking eyes in these chinese cars...It is probably the KP on the other side recording everything anyway - I am sorry, but China being the modern version of Orwells 1984 there is only one answer: hands of chinese (or other dictatorship) cars! Regards!

[@TheMkoester]

@@TubeMeisterJC The spy-thing is not the most important thing but that I don't want to by dictatorship-products. We have to make a choice here and by this "responsible" behavior we can influcence autocratic structures quite a lot I think.

[@suddeneye9836]

This will only get better. Been looking forward to this for over 3 years. Thank You Kyle

[@dekimp]

Here in Eu we have rich north and poor Balkan countries.Interchangeable battery concept is much better solution for this region beacuse is much easier to rebuild and replace this battery pack in aftermarket workshops.Used car market is here very strong and very often this concept is one and only road to acept and widespread electromobility.

[@anthonydavis7151]

I would definitely buy a car with a swap station. Everyone knows the Tesla is the lowest quality of car but you'd be a fool to dismiss their cars because their charging network is the current best in the US especially if you do longer than average driving in your regular lifestyle. Love your show

[@bringerofthedawn5544]

Wow great! Nio nailed it!! Hope this technology gets to the US soon!!

[@matthewhartley5334]

I love this. Bring it to the USA

[@nc3826]

Kyle the use of services / subscriptions have exploded in the last decades in the US, when it adds value to the consumer..... So while there will be some pushback to battery swapping, when it comes to the USA.... but people who have a true need for it, such as full time taxi drivers, will choose it, since it's the much more cost effective option....

[@DeilGrist]

What's cool to me is even if you drop a battery off at 0%, it would take the station at least an hour to an hour and 15 minutes to do 11 swaps before that battery is next in the queue, which means it probably will charge to 90% in that time. There should never be a time that there isn't a battery enough charge due to that.

[@AndreaDeBernardi]

yep, it works just like that. in Gen 3 station they will cut the time in half.... but double the batteries

[@silys5253]

Indeed. Swap Stations keep the peaks low. There are 13 swap stations in China that even discharge to the grid (virtual power plant). Hope this will roll out to all swap stations soon.

[@jaylenbrownfan2112]

NIO is working on 3.0. Up to 24 batteries and 2 instead of one swappers. Cuts the time almost in half.

[@mauron4608]

I hear lots of people complaining that EVs don't have enough range but I think a 40kw battery is enough for 90% of the drivers and having the possibility to swap the battery with a bigger one whenever is needed is really fantastic.

[@EcoNumbersNMore]

Indeed, a small, 200 kg lighter 20-40 kWh battery that you would charge at home, and swap to 100 kWh or so battery when you need that range on road trips, weekend trips etc. 200kg or even more weight loss for the mostly short distance daily commutes with a lot of traffic light stops would decrease energy use, lower kWh/100km, and systematically reduce energy use overall, as well as less use of valuable resources for building batteries. It is a bit of a shame that EVs carry around 400-500 kg battery packs every time while that long range is only needed occasionally.

[@mmayo1320]

Thank you for sharing this Kyle - very cool! Not sure how it would work in the states, but what possibilities!

[@BrogeKilrain]

They have another cure . Put people in cities and don’t let them travel 😮. That is in fact the plan . See agenda 2030

[@The_DuMont_Network]

@@EcoNumbersNMore By the same argument, then why not put a 2 gallon fuel tank in gassers which only drive 40 miles or so a day? Think about all that weight of a larger tank and gasoline at 6.1 pounds (US) or 7.2 pounds (Imperial) you are lugging around unused each day.

[@nc3826]

CATL Launches Battery Swap Solution EVOGO Featuring Modular Battery Swapping

[@charlesd9949]

I am excited about solid-state batteries and how easy it will be for NIO cars to get the latest and greatest battery tech so easily. Hopefully other car manufacturers adapt to this tech and batteries get standardized. Battery Swap 3.0 can swap a battery out in 2 minutes (Once available), think about this, not every EV can plug in at home. $NIO

[@silys5253]

Indeed. Heard their supplier (which they also invested in) just rolled out the first semi solid state battery. Hope the 150kW battery pack will be out Q1

[@charlesd9949]

@@silys5253 Correct, WeLion if I understood correctly.

[@nc3826]

battery swappable pack is more difficult to thermally manage..... So a solid state battery, theoretically should help with that...

[@polinicasio]

The 3rd generation Battery Swapping Station will arrive in 2023. This will replace the battery in less than 3 minutes. And there will also be more batteries in it.

[@mukamuka0]

It's a great concept but I don't know if this is a future proof because battery tech will keep advancing to the point that it'll take little time to charging up. However, I'm applaud Nio for their commitment to build up swapping network unlike traditional auto who refuse to help build up charging network.

[@vidyasagargutha2347]

I heard V3 swapping station fixed all the issues you have mentioned like swapp in 2 minutes and vehicle stays in power while swapping.

[@amenhotepavoskin1307]

I like that blinking robot head on the dashboard. This is something really cool! :)

[@cruiser97eric1]

When NIO comes to the USA I hope they will introduce the first pickup truck with a swappable battery. I would seriously consider dumping my R1T for one of those.

[@peterworrell8004]

Amen

[@peterworrell8004]

Nio could save Ford Baas and L4 teh ready unlike. Cheaply made cars like tesla

[@nc3826]

"CATL Launches Battery Swap Solution, EVOGO Featuring Modular Battery Swapping" based pickup truck would be a bit better option

[@doomsday9973]

NIO is never coming to the US lol

[@cruiser97eric1]

@@doomsday9973 NIO is already operating in the USA, but it isn't selling cars here yet.

[@chaukeram]

I was watching your video and getting my Tesla charged… in 23 minutes I’m at 66% (started at 25%)… I’ll take a battery swap any day!

[@iSot80]

Next 3rd gen swap station will do that in less than 3 minutes :)

[@chaukeram]

@@iSot80 with 22 batteries 🔋

[@iSot80]

@@chaukeram Yep.

[@wreckinball11]

That must be a slow charger. I can go from 20% to 80% in that much time. Usually about 160KWH from a 250KWH charger. My 2019 M3P has a max charge rate lower than the station max.

[@nc3826]

CATL EVOGO Featuring Modular Battery Swapping, is even better.... since it's modular and it's not controlled by single auto company....

[@SamuraiTacos1]

i think its interesting for someone who owns an ev and lives in an apartment or condo

[@jason9154]

i just went to a tesla super charger today, it took me 50 mins to go from 107 miles to 250 miles, its slow and expensive I would use battery swap

[@onetwothreefour-s1n]

Yup

[@nguyep4]

Battery swap sounds great but how does it do in practice? How many can one station swap in an hour? What if there are 5 cars in from of you? If it takes 5 minutes minimum to swap, what if the max time could double that? How long is that 5 minutes become? A supercharger can charge upto 200 miles in 15 minutes. I am surprised after 50 minutes and you only got less than 150 miles.

[@jason9154]

@@nguyep4 do you own a Tesla? you're talking about the best conditions the chargers range from 90-250kwh an hr it depends on how many stations are used up and the hour or location and 200 miles is just what's on paper real world conditions you usually have a 20% roll off and less if you have the heater on etc 160 miles will only last 2-3 days meaning you will have to charge 2-3 times a week

[@jason9154]

@@nguyep4 battery swap is just an additional option as you can see there are super chargers at every swap station. There are regular 6-7Kwh chargers like chargepoint or home chargers and supercharging is just an option swap stations will just keep getting faster, fast charging is limited based on the technology because batteries can blow up charging too fast

[@shimano20154]

The extra waiting time was for the system upgrade, most likely the vehicle and the new battery has different versions.

[@Enzo187]

Definitely should have swapped the two camera views, would have preferred to see the outside view on the larger area so I'm not squinting to see what's going on underneath the car.

[@PrincessTS01]

id totally buy a car that can have its battery swapped that easily.

[@flujori]

if you can financially overpay 10 or 15k for a car just to not worry about something that shouldnt worry you at this stage in BEV's adoptation. then good for you sir !

[@lithosh007]

NIOs Gen 3 battery swap station is set to achieve swap in 2.5 mins…it can hold more than 22 batteries and car won’t switch off. You would be able to use navigation system and ACs…new tech and with that comes optimizations

[@nc3826]

Thanks for the info.... the swapping stations in Norway are supposed to be gen 3.... it only seemed like a few months ago, when they rolled out Gen 2.... fwiw CATL's EVOGO battery swapping model, has far more advantages.... IMHO....

[@lithosh007]

@@nc3826 there is secondary battery pack which has some 12v and enough to power few basic things. Main battery pack are the ones which gets swapped….

[@guiseppehammer]

OK, that’s pretty cool. I like your analysis of a foot print comparison Kyle. The thing is -- having the choice of either/or is the plus. If every NIO battery swap has BOTH DC-fast charging AND battery swap it gives options which long-term is more scalable. I liked your idea, have that big beautiful screen show a full status bar process of the battery swap - think of an animation that shows a rendering of what’s going on in NIO-sequel playful way, maybe even with NOMI’s voice speaking to key milestones…. “Your freshly prepared 100kWh battery is now being installed.” “Now you’re all set, thank you and have a good day.” That along with the ability to keep the 12V (9V?) battery running to keep the infotainment screen in perhaps a “limited use” mode and allow for heated/cooled seats (lower energy than full HVAC system). Good demonstration and glad Kyle you got to talk with the NIO attendant. 👍🔋

[@unclezeppy]

A friend of mine is about to buy a used NIO ES8 in China. He said the funny thing is that for example one 2018 model with 226000km when asked how is the battery he was told it is new. Then he realized if he puts another 200000km in it he can also say it has a new battery. Suddenly the battery doesn’t matter anymore. No wonder the Chinese government has big plans for a people’s car that will be sold without the battery.

[@fitybux4664]

It will be like inkjet printer/ink bundles. They'll sell you car with a "starter battery" that will work for 5 miles. 😆

[@brunoais]

26:00 2 optimizations: 1: In on one side, out on the other. 2: Leave the car in the queue and it auto-drives into it and out on the other into an "out queue". When the car is in the out queue you can jump out of it and drive away. -> Imagine you placing the car in the queue. Go with WC, get coffee. Get a notification on your phone's app (optional) when the car is getting swapped, you arrive while the car is swapping; you wait 1 min. The car goes to the out queue. You click on the remote to open the doors. The car stops, you go in and you drive away. (the car could just be in the out queue instead; doesn't matter)

[@dan-bz7dz]

Or the car parks itself once done

[@rededwards3479]

The battery swap availability is done through the app you have the choice to wait or time when it's your turn..

[@freddiecarr7602]

For me yes. I need 40Wh most of the time. If, I say if I go on a long drive the battery swap seems like the ticket.

[@ctk4949]

Why wouldn't ppl in the US not like this?!?! Only 5mins to charge to 90%?!?! That's awesome!!

[@SiDPT15]

Because 'Murica

[@ussflagg2]

I would

[@TheoPhilpot]

Try h2. Fills in 5 mins

[@madmax1419]

He didn‘t told the full story. You have to rent the battery to get the swap option. When I buy a car, I want the full car. Why buying a Nio and then renting the battery? It‘s just a small spare of time you get when you rent a battery and use the swap funktion. The energy is also to be payed when you swap or charge normally.

[@madmax1419]

@@8qk67acq5 You don't need to explain to me why swapping only works that way. But most others don't know that it is like that. Imagine the following scenario: all Nio owners buy a car and battery. That would make the swapping station pointless.

[@MrVeeBlog]

That was sweet. Thanks for this one. I didn't know that it was just that basic; a few bolts and the battery is out. Good stuff.

[@ayoutubewatcher7009]

Nio is coming out with a gen 3 station and supposedly takes 2 mins.

[@peergynt6515]

I like that battery degradation is not something to worry about. Even if modern batteries does not degrade that much, for me the placebo would help since i get "degradation anxiety" when the battery is too far from 50% charge. I know with a battery switching system like this that indirectly the customer must still pay (perhaps a lot more) for battery degradation over time, but it is still good for placebo even if it is technically bad for the wallet. ..And if I was to get a new original battery from Tesla they do tend to overcharge. I mean a guy from Finland exploded his Model S because of this.

[@flujori]

some people here still think company's are non-profit :P and yes for a BEV its sometimes too expensive to upgrade your battery but this is not the solution for that problem because in the end you will still pay even more. you do seem to understand all this, great comment sir !

[@aldaley3537]

That was quite impressive.

[@saadsyed6690]

This is the future for cold climates, consumer or fleet. 5 minute swaps instead of waiting hours to charge. Camping folks will love them, too. Just have these spread in communities which cannot accommodate charge points and a singular point connected to the grid.

[@ab-tf5fl]

"Just have these spread in communities which cannot accommodate charge points and a singular point connected to the grid." Problem is, the swapped out batteries still have to be charged in order to for them to be swapped in. Once you have a power supply capable to doing that, it is much cheaper to simply install a ChargePoint. Plus, the ChargePoint can charge every car, rather than being available only to one specific brand.

[@iSot80]

Next 3rd gen swap station will do that in less than 3 minutes :)

[@staceylee4071]

I think the battery swap may work in cities, where you might swap the battery once a week for your weekly commute. On all my long road trip journeys in an ID.3 mid battery charging time has not been the limiting factor. I have needed the use of other services along my route.

[@nc3826]

The knee jerk response Of "I think that battery swapping will only work in cities", meme needs to be buried.... china has proven that it expands the uses for EVs, into new applications.... such as for cement trucks...or. in case of NIO It is mostly used by taxi drivers The majority of the time it's not competing with any form of charging....

[@nicynu6202]

I think resale on an EV that does battery swap would be better than an EV that just keeps the same battery. If you were buying a 2nd hand EV it would be great.

[@sdmike1141]

Fascinating. Good job OoSR for covering!

[@godofdun]

Wow, that's really great, it would need to be a faster DC charger to work in the US as it would be an either or equilibrium here with the longer distances, but they've got this part down pat!

[@onetwothreefour-s1n]

They'll have 800v architecture by 2024 so 2025 usa should be good to go.

[@haziedabnuuy]

I can't wait until we get these here in the USA!

[@jaylenbrownfan2112]

Looking forward to 3.0. Supposed to be redesigned to make pulling into the station much smoother. Batteries placed on a different side.

[@LuckyMr0]

Rumors suggest it will take only slightly above 2min for the whole swap.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

Wow!! Batteries placed on a different side? I wish I could afford a Nio & a battery swap subscription.... 🤦 Seriously? That's what gets you excited? 🤷

[@alexmanojlovic768]

@@LuckyMr0 how long to locate & attend a swap station. Nio's own statement that OUTSIDE OF CHINA they plan ONLY.... 1,000 stations.... By 2025....

[@niosanfrancisco]

It’s impressive with understanding of NIOs overall strategy.

[@AndreaDeBernardi]

a little disappointed most focus on charging times. ok, yes, it's fast, but the benefits and perk are way beyond the "faster than charging" and you fully know what i mean

[@liljoe5]

@@AndreaDeBernardi no i dont understand what ur point

[@ChimaChindaDev]

Incredible technology. NIO is doing a fantastic job.

[@Analytical_Visionary]

NIO is expected to launch battery swap version 3.0. Which stores up to 23 batteries and battery swap time in under 2 mins.

[@jasonfournier]

Then they will run out of batteries if they actually are swapping batteries constantly. Not a problem in the early days, but eventually if the stations are running constantly, they need to hold around 50 batteries.

[@brushlessmotoring]

@@jasonfournier 46 minutes (23 x 2) is enough time to mostly charge an empty battery that came in earlier, if they can charge all 23 at once, they could continuously swap batteries indefinitely - fast charging stations with 23 cars plugged in would likely lower the peak charge speed.

[@jasonfournier]

@@brushlessmotoring same issue would arise charging all batteries st once, but I don't think that is a real issue. Tesla already has 50 stations that can charge at once.

[@steveyoung8376]

This will open EV's to city residents and is a good investment, also companies such as taxis could use these, if they take 2 min per car then a better use of space and put solar on the roof of the swop station.

[@v3ctormax]

Awesome video. I imagine that they must be purging air out of the cooling system. I always wondered how they deal with the battery cooling lines...

[@jak_k]

Never thought about it before your question. Perhaps a small piston in the battery module that after fluid valves are closed on the car side, moves to lower the connection fluid level before closing the battery side valve. Reverse for the new battery. It wouldn't clear out 100% of any air but could probably reduce it to manageable levels.

[@fitybux4664]

If there are coolant lines involved with the replacement, that invites the possibility of contaminating your car's coolant system. 😆

[@v3ctormax]

@@fitybux4664 Exactly! That's why I'm interested to know how they take care of this problem. If they are just using a cooling plate on top of the battery, it would be very inefficient.

[@chiemekaa]

This is a brilliant solution that'll benefit a lot of city centers and along certain major routes. I look forward to seeing what their plans are in the U.S for such implementation.

[@alexmanojlovic768]

Nio's own statement that OUTSIDE OF CHINA they plan ONLY.... 1,000 stations.... By 2025....

[@iSot80]

The next Nio Battery Swap Station (3rd gen) will change the new battery in less than 3 minutes. Also the car remains powered between the battery change.

[@dicky-duck6632]

you meant the info system using a separate small battery only, right?

[@gordoncrichton7657]

When my drill battery is done I take it out put it on charge and then put a fresh battery in and carry on why not cars. Also means the battery gets maintained and replaced, you don’t throw the drill away when the battery is done.

[@ANNE-mv3ht]

Great video. Thanks for your job and high value added information

[@lewiscross7603]

Idk why there's always a either or situation when it comes to charging. This can be quite useful in the US along with regular fast charging stations.

[@TheWestlaker]

In America where space is ample, they can mayor a drive through which should take a couple minutes off compared to the auto backing up into the swap bay.