Is Britain on the Brink of Collapse? | Peter Hitchens talks to Aaron Bastani

[@TheReasonableMan93]

I am from a working class family. I went to university, worked my a** off, and achieved a first class law degree. I am now working as a fully qualified lawyer. I did everything that I was advised to do. Yet, here I am. 30 years old and staring down the barrel of NEVER being able to afford my own home. The truth is, I would have been happy never owning a property - as I only need it when I am alive. But, in order to have some modicum of stability to raise a family, having a place to call 'home' is all but essential. Living in rented accommodation, at whim of the landlord, unable to so much as put up a shelf, and being charged more per month than it would be to buy the f*kin place does not lend itself to feeling stable. Our enemies are not abroad, they are right here. In Westminster, London. They have caused more damage to this country than any foreign nation could ever dream of.

[@larryfroot]

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself." - Cicero

[@ludwigvanel9192]

That is the thing with countries: They create abuseable power and so they lure sadistic egotripping opportunistic sociopaths (slightly tautological there), And therefore countries are going to come to an end, and becreplaced bythe only benefit they ever offered the people living in them:globally unique postal addresses

[@rahuldahoob]

Sadly we are not WELL CONNECTED

[@ms38980]

I live in the United States. I bought my first house at 22, after I graduated from college. Over the last 20 years I bought another house, and had sufficient equity to obtain a construction loan and build my dream house. None of this is possible for my children. Not without enormous down payments and the interest rates being at 2-3%. We are in the same boat in the United States.

[@photoman3579]

But you dont make anything !

[@malcolmx2852]

I was born in the early 50’s. Looking back now it seems unbelievable the things we took for granted up until the late 70’s. One example, an unskilled factory worker could support a wife and a couple of kids one his wage alone, not rely on any benefit, go on holiday once a year put good healthy food on the table and treat the kids to a good Christmas. Sadly these days have gone for good.

[@user-lp5wb2rb3v]

all because thatcher decided "inefficient factories must go with no replacement"

[@johnd4587]

A hugely intelligent man,his contraindications ,re Palestine,really!

[@olikane530]

This is amazing!! Not that long ago at all, yet so changed, for the worse ofc, As a certain politician once said " You've Never Had It So Good"

[@squirepegg6157]

"So let's take heart. Let's not get discouraged. Let's keep fighting. When you give up; when you get discouraged and say 'What's the use?', you're doing the work of your enemies. Even in our losses there are the seeds of victory. Those abusing power are going to lose. And we're going to win. Because they try to resist history. They try to keep history from happening. And we, in fact, are making history. We, brothers and sisters, are the future of history." - Michael Parenti, on the fight for social justice in America

[@straightfacts5352]

But always remember... *greed is good* I know it's true because Hollywood told me so.

[@carlitochakra7169]

Take a trip around the Northern towns of Britain. Dirty, disrepair, underprivileged, decay, broken. Boarded up houses and shops. Crime ridden. Youths openly wandering around in balaclavas. Homelessness. A total lack of industry. There is a sad hope-lessness in the eyes of the people. The countryside is beautiful but the towns and inner cities are extremely ugly. 💛💜💛

[@SagaciousFrank]

I live up north, and have done all of my life, same as my parents and grandparents. It has its charm in many places, but yeah in many ways it's pretty bleak, and much has been neglected and ruined.

[@carlitochakra7169]

@@SagaciousFrank There are exceptions. Hebden Bridge is a quaint English town with stunning scenery and architecture. Canals and rivers, lots of moorland. It has become somewhat gentrified over recent years. Despite these benefits and local beauty the town has a stigma of having a high suicide rate and there are undertones of alcohol and drug abuse. It's sad to see England, for the most part, has fallen into such a sad state of misery and despair. 🎶In this proud land we grew up strong🎶 💛💜💛

[@SagaciousFrank]

@@carlitochakra7169 , the north is quite vast, so I didn't expect you to mention a place so close to home not that far from where I live! Yes, Hebden Bridge is quite nice. Not far from there is Howarth (its association with the Brontë Sisters) which can be reached via the Keighley and Worth Valley Railway, which runs heritage steam trains.

[@SagaciousFrank]

@@carlitochakra7169 , Skipton is always worth a visit, Clitheroe as well.

[@carlitochakra7169]

@@SagaciousFrank Haworth is a pretty part of the world. I've visited it a few times and almost purchased a house there 20 years ago. The deal fell through. I had an appreciation for the Bronte sisters and Bramwell as I studied English Literature and those books were a major part of the curriculum. There was a great musical instruments shop there near the station. Is that music shop still there ? There are some wonderful beauty spots still surviving in England but the cities and towns for most part have gone to the dogs. England is broken. British culture has died a death. Community spirit is a thing of the past. I lived in Bulgaria for 5 years and although it is a developing country and the infrastructure is from the communist era, the standard of living in Bulgaria is much better than England. But alas, England is my home so we make the best of our situation. Stiff upper lip and all that. 💛💜💛

[@simonhodgetts6530]

The moment that the UK ‘government’ finally wakes up to the fact that we ceased to be a world power 30 years ago, and start looking after the UK’s population for a change is the day where I will re-engage with politics. For now, I am so ashamed of what my country has become that it has made me very depressed. It’s not worth it. We can’t keep living on the legacies of 1966, VE Day and the stiff upper lip. We’re too far gone.

[@anthonytube]

Simon I feel the same as you. My soul hurts living here. It's gone to hell.

[@thelikesofus324]

My thoughts exactly. Unfortunately, its too late to reverse the decline. We are destined to become a kind of 2nd world, low trust country full of immigrants with absolutely no loyalty to the Britain. The UK is fast becoming just somewhere in the world to land on in in order to scratch a living and then move on when the time is right. Its our own fault. Boomers being told what to think and do by the mass media and voting lib/lab/con since the 50s.

[@JackieHansen-v4b]

You where not a world power 30 years ago. WW2 ended that.

[@BRM101]

Same here

[@KingKhan20000]

30 years ago. You mean since at least 1945 or 56.

[@stefanosbrilakis5065]

Labour and Tories have one mission : to make the establishment richer.

[@abraxis20]

Labour have the additional mission of gatekeeping the left, insuring that no ideas outside the so-called 'neoliberal consensus' are allowed to be given credence. Packed away in a little box termed 'far left' !

[@stefanos9882]

Καλά τα λές

[@Fredmayve]

wish you were running Novara not the faux lefts @stefanosbrilakis

[@JamalBrown-k1x]

Tax credits, pension credit, higher child benefit, 2 million lifted out of poverty, Homeless reduced by 50%, The min wage, rising living standards. Those that benefited from those measures from 1997-2010 may disagree with you in regards to Labour making the establishment richer.

[@johnbeer4963]

Yeah Labour = Tories is a Daily Mail fabrication. Keep saying it if You like making Yourself look foolish.

[@TiGGowich]

I moved to the UK in 2019 from Germany, taking a gamble, hoping that Britain would take a different route from the EU, using this once in a lifetime opportunity called Brexit to go back to the UK's original core values and strength such as small state, free business... But after 5 years of living here, I have come to realize your political class is utterly garbage. Both the Tories and Labout have absolutely no intention to improve this country. I am leaving next year and it saddens me greatly

[@garagemutopica5805]

This country is great for the super rich

[@treyquattro]

England never gave up on feudalism

[@andrewocock8480]

Shame about the weather 😂

[@seanmoran2743]

@@treyquattroTrue in a way

[@Philbert-s2c]

@@treyquattro You think England is bad, come to the US.

​@@andrewocock8480true but if you have a good Macintosh from Aquascutum or Burberry's you are set up😂

[@wendycurrie9629]

I have observed the decline in British standards of living over the past four decades. Young people are leaving Britain for a better life abroad.

[@TheLucanicLord]

How long, Ivan?

[@vevey75]

Quite and Brexit has further impacted opportunities for our youth and are small to medium sized business. I don't see how an advisory vote with less than 50% turnout is decided by a few percent margin.

[@bak2back]

I've noticed the UK become poorer and I've been disgusted to see all our money spent on Ukraine but not on putting our country right

[@tayibahussain]

@@bak2back Agree to that. Also this government has come up with 30 million for MP protection but cannot afford breakfast for kids on the poverty line. Puts me to shame. We need to do more atleast for the future of our country.

[@philipcurnow7990]

I went to a comprehensive, got loads of O-levels and a couple of language A levels, and now live in Europe. Cheers mate.

[@Rootle2]

Bloody legendary interview! This is one people could be watching 60 years from now

[@otinanai6305]

The economy has undeniably collapsed, but a society collapses before an economy collapses. It was not hard to see this coming, quite the contrary actually. The economy might improve at some point but the society will never recover. The UK, as we knew it , is finished

[@davidwright8432]

Time and tide wait for no man - or nation. The entire UK social and economic structure has massively changed since the 1950s in ways nobody could have foreseen. There's nothing to be 'recovered'.

[@stephensimpson8531]

Agreed - apart from the bit about the economy recovering. I love my home country, and I do hope it recovers, but - at the age of 40 - I doubt I will see it

[@unduloid]

A society collapses before an economy collapses? Got any sources for that claim?

[@seanmoran2743]

1914 finished us We live in the wake of that catastrophe

[@jake751]

You have just made more sense than peter hitchens.

[@jenschristopher6261]

Thank you Novara Media and thank you Peter Hitchens, this is exactly what the world desperately needs; good faith debates from people on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

[@92belisarius]

Completely agree. So sad there is so much hate among the comments against these two intelligent people

[@normankennith7919]

it's a shame hitchens is pro israel & pro ukraine!! he is supporting the wrong countries!!!

[@bobjary9382]

The sentiment is admirable , we certainly do need to find middle ground when plenty of our political voices trade on polarisation, however its a shame Hitchens is not open to rational discussion on some of the things ge feels very strongly about .

[@davidcousins3508]

I agree ..I don’t always agree with Peter Hitchens but he puts forward thought out arguments…there is no point debating in an echo chamber .

[@normankennith7919]

'pardon.............pardon'? 'cheers........cheers........cheers'!@@davidcousins3508

[@StephenSeabird]

Living in the middle of Europe for the past 8 years, i feel saddened by the delusions some British people have about our own country. One thing that shocks me is the lack of any civic responsibility that the political class have. Family life has broken down, there's little after-natal care for mothers and minimal support for cohesive family life, houses are smaller and much of the domestic 'architecture' is outdated and shabby, the trains are FAR too expensive, there is a much higher proportion of wayward youths wandering the increasingly dangerous streets ... and finally, the damage done to our rivers and coasts by the privatisation of the water supply, the wrecked post office and the overly expensive higher education .... I could go on. There's little investigative journalism into any of the problems, and the political class seem clueless or uninterested. They have no ideas. An example of this 'we-have-the-best-in-the-world' : The universities, e.g. are so in need of money that they let in wealthy foreign students whom they sometimes know will fail the first year, in the lower grade universities actually accepting those whose English level is inadequate because they can afford to pay for the course, as fewer British students can. Student contact time with real Professors has been cut to the bone and there are not many lectures to go to anyway - cost-cutting has seen to that. Thus, some ask, are English universities really as great as they say, or do they rest on past glories? As he says, the working class in Britain used to have settled family lives, but the selling of the council houses disrupted a swathe of us, demanding that everyone get on the property bandwagon - but this was and is impossible, and simply drove house prices up further by throwing these houses onto the roulette wheel of property speculation. The wealthier can now buy several. I'm sure many reading this could add to all this.

[@MrTenderisthenight]

Excellent analysis. The collapse of respectable council housing with inside bathrooms and large gardens - back and front - facilitated the coarsening and increased desperation of a huge swathe of society. The property ladder is often a highway to hell for millions.

[@vmoses1979]

But is it just the fault of the political class? What about the extremely toxic and atrocious media class that convinced poor Britons that the EU was the reason they were poor and unable to get ahead?

[@SarahGarnhamActress]

There used to be a documentary series called “man alive” produced by the BBC. It was quality investigative journalism covering pertinent social issues. We have absolutely nothing like this anymore.

[@kenmmseven]

Same bunch. They went to schools with the political classes and all speak the same langauge of exclusion and ignorance of what "a prosperous country" actually entails​@@vmoses1979

[@GudieveNing]

Interesting. Until your comment, I had defended Lady Thatcher's council house selling off, believing as she did that it offered the working classes dignity through ownership. I guess not?

[@seanmoran2743]

My Grandfather told me he didn’t know why he bothered fighting away for six years and that was in the 80s

[@niburu1508]

They never do seem to know why they are fighting, Why the F do they join the forces? If no one joined then they would not be able to squander lives and money. It’s not as if anything improves after the war. You just have debt to pay and thousands of crippled ex servicemen.

[@allanyork244]

He was correct the fascists never went away they rule us now while pretending to be something else ie Tory Labour and Liberal that’s why we never get any change and I would suggest Mr Hitchen and Mr Bastani whether they know it or not are collaborating with this system

[@flashgordon6670]

For money, the opportunity to travel and experience other places and other personal reasons. That’s why he went to fight for 6 years overseas. Protecting Democracy and Freedom were of secondary importance.

[@gibson617ajg]

Was he a football hooligan?

[@johnschuh8616]

Certainly that was the feeling of a fellow I met aboard a ferry going from Belfast to Scotland in the early 1970s. Was on a bus tours sponsored by the US forces in Germany. Felt he would never work again. I was a bit startled by the pessimism, and protestded that surely such a great people could not be down. He brightened up and took me over to his lady folks and shared his cheer with them. AS English people are always a bit shy with strangers I was kind of proud of myself for getting such a response. Still one could not help but notice how rundown Britain was at least in comparison with Germany. The loser in this great war was already beginning to sparkle in comparison. Certainly the trains showed the difference.

[@alexanderewing3779]

If you're rich, then Britain is great but for the rest of us.... Same as it ever was!

[@cliffhughes6010]

No, worse than it has been for many years.

[@Hiberno_sperg]

The United kingdom is a disgustingly unfree society and this has been spearheaded by an unholy alliance of middle class leftists and fortune 500 companies.

[@samseal8611]

Disagree. I think the British rich are spiritually impoverished, and they know it, too. It's shameful stepping over beggars on your way to the opera, especially when some of those beggars are ex servicemen.

[@alexanderewing3779]

Spirituality doesn't pay your bills or feed your family, so a more equitable wealth sharing system might allow working people the luxury of inner peace?@@samseal8611

[@boogiejed5485]

You can say that about sny place and time

[@paulconnelly4050]

Great interview. Peter Hitchens thought provoking as always. Rare breed of journalist. Great job Aaron and Novara.

[@Archmagos_Faber]

sorry but I have to disagree, he is just a failure and disappointment compared to his late brother. and I am not saying that based on their beliefs on faith but how they articulated them, peter often comes off as narcissistic and every time I have seen him debate or discuss he ignores others input and just falls back on tired arguments that just don't hold up too scientific or societal standards. He is also a major hypocrite and a bit of an judgmental prig.

[@Trippeak]

​@Archmagos_Faber 😂 How is he a failure? Peter has travelled round the world as a correspondent and grown as a person throughout his life. Christopher just spent his career in the United States losing debates to priests.

[@Archmagos_Faber]

@@Trippeak oh I didn't mean failure in regards to making a career based on BS and fear mongering but rather as a person following the beliefs he espoused. He hasn't grown, he chased on belief system after another until finding one he can grift off of to enrich himself.

[@RubyTuesdayJB]

As a teacher in a state school, my observation is that kids struggle to read. Literacy is really poor.

[@anthonytube]

Very true, it's sad the state of family values and the emphasis on learning and betterment. Watch kids being interviewed in the 1960's! Most had more sense than 90% of adults today. Sad. Keep up the good work!

[@Hattonbank]

@@anthonytubeI totally agree, Today's generation has all of mankinds knowledge, achievements and history at their fingertips, instead of the odd newspaper, library and encyclopedia that previous generations had, but in spite of that, they seem universally ignorant of the real world around them.

[@anthonytube]

@@HattonbankSuch wonderful words!

[@anthonytube]

@@Hattonbank I couldn’t have summed up better myself! Everything is just a click away so why bother learn! If the great minds of the past came to visit they’d quickly ask to go back! Best wishes Anthony

[@wiljaxon1958]

Quite so, as for numeracy?

[@Esther-Pesta]

Great conversation. It’s so important to hear a variety of ideas and opinions from across the spectrum. Thanks NM ❤

[@TheLastSongbird124]

Born into the slums of a northern England industrial city in 1950 (an environment & people I loved), my 11 plus results took me into grammar school followed by access to university and my eventual degree. This allowed me to move to Australia where I had a wonderful life for 40 years. I unexpectedly found myself no longer with any living family the year before retirement which encouraged me to retire to Portugal. It was the education system of my childhood that allowed me to have the life I've had and the gratitude I have for that education system cannot adequately be put into words.

[@mikeborrelli193]

You never had any children?

[@TheLastSongbird124]

@@mikeborrelli193 I had one son.

[@mikeborrelli193]

@@TheLastSongbird124 Damn, sorry for your loss ..

[@windsorpatb]

@@TheLastSongbird124 So sorry, my friend.

[@Namix666]

I don't agree with Peter Hitchens takes on many things (however some things he says are spot on) but i always enjoy listening to him as hes atleast put some time into developing his positions and can articulate how he got there .... far too many commentators fail to explain how they got to where they are and seemingly just follow the current crowd / party talking points or sound bites.

[@MollyGermek]

He's fundamentally missing that education can no longer _be_ a driver of social mobility. What does it matter if you went to a good school if you're just going to have a Master's and wait tables or field HR emails for an insurance company? Increasing the knowledge represented by that Master's by having you read the classics and know Latin in high school doesn't change that Britain is a dead-end service economy with nothing to offer the world. It might get you a step or two up a ladder that's quickly sinking into the surf, but it's never going to reverse the inexorable decline of Britain.

[@patslatt1]

Services are often sophisticated, AI for instance.

[@MollyGermek]

@@patslatt1 lol

[@advocate1563]

Education details can't differentiate you when it has no scarcity value.

[@allanyork244]

It will get you the job as chairman of the Bank of England. Good old classics

[@jacksmith3095]

Although I agree with you on the seemingly inevitable decline, it does matter what you study. Having simply studied is not enough. Unfortunately, market forces must be considered when selecting a field of study. I have an undergraduate and masters in engineering, as well as a masters in physics. My position would be very different if I had studied Latin or music production for example. So in a sense you are right, but I believe there is a missing factor in your equation.

[@johnbell2722]

When I travel around Europe. France, Holland, Spain, Germany and yes Italy, I see far more prosperity, beautiful architecture, pride in one's country, more cultured behaviour than ever we can see in run down, broken Britain.

[@uk7769]

Yank here. I went on a road trip across the USA in 2022. We are worse off. this nation is in terrible decay. beyond repair. oops. empires in decline. that said, we will persist, until our military industrial complex devours itself in greed and ever more powerful weapons. If we do not extinct ourselves in the mean time.

[@paul1979uk2000]

@@uk7769 I think the real problem is that the UK and US puts far too much focus on GDP growth over quality of life for its citizens. Looking at many of the indexes that matter, the UK and US are falling behind other modern countries, whereas other European countries dominant the top 10 quality of life indexes, with only I think Australia and Canada making the cut in the top 10. Ultimately from a citizen's point of view from any country, what really matters is quality of life, and that is where I think the UK and US are failing its people for quite some time now. At the end of the day, what good is it our governments keep banging on about how good the GDP numbers are doing and how low unemployment is, these numbers mean nothing to the average person that feels things are progressively getting worse. European countries are not perfect, but at least there's far more balance on quality of life, and a lot of the anger in Europe is actually on other things like immigration, higher energy prices and things like that, which are outside influences, but still need to be solved at some point, but compared to the UK and US, the problems are much deeper in the structure of the system, and without major reforms, I don't see much changing.

[@sherlockgnomes8971]

You must’ve only travelled to the tourist areas, as there are some very bleak run down places in all of those countries. Particularly in parts of Spain and Italy, the standard of living is similar to that of people in Eastern Europe.

[@dmytrorubanov3340]

All of those countries have roughly the same issues as Britain, if not worse. Plenty of discontent there too. Sounds like you’ve only been there as a tourist.

[@NGCS-ej4lz]

Demographics is Destiny. Meanwhile...in Japan.

[@iansinfield1836]

What a fascinating discussion, I could listen to Peter for hours, thank you.

[@teddyroon]

Peter yes but the interviewer often sounded like a naive 6th former.

[@peter9162]

Education is an ongoing project that goes well beyond secondary school. The idea that one's opportunities in life are set mainly by the quality of the school they go to is naive. What we need is to foster a culture of continual, lifelong learning and provide better access to adult education.

[@RadiantStar8997]

Great comment.

[@stephensimpson8531]

Yes! In some countries, higher education is free. You can do courses whenever you like. Degrees are modular, and if you collect a set of courses, you can earn a degree - but you don’t have to, you can just do the courses you want or need to stay employable. That’s the case in Sweden anyway….Im a Brit, but I’ve just moved to Sweden with my Swedish partner. She’s already doing one course to help her make the next step in her career. Seriously, the opportunities made available to Swedes, for free, would make a Brit green with envy. Sweden is not without its problems - but this is one of the things they got perfectly right. Good quality, meaningful Education benefits the student, but it benefits society generally. It’s a win win. So why not make it free and available continuously?

[@RadiantStar8997]

@@stephensimpson8531 ... because the UK likes to keep the class structure intact with the elites at the top. That's why there is such a growing gap between the rich and poor.

[@markc17]

In my experience it is true that early education is the key, grammar school education creates inquisitive, intellectually confident adults that no amount of standard state education can make up for.

[@stephensimpson8531]

@@RadiantStar8997yup - it is almost as though our “elites” prefer to sit at the top of a sh*t-hole country (to quote The Donald 😅) than to be a constructive part of a decent, functional society. Such lovely people!

[@ResoundGuy5]

A thoroughly enjoyable interview. Always good to hear from Peter Hitchens.

[@Slug99]

The fact that the conversation is headlined as "brink on collapse" should tell you how unwilling even open-minded British are in recognizing that they've been a constant state of decline for over a century. Very few empires collapse like the USSR where one day it just stopped existing. Most of them take decades or centuries to actually expand into their full height and then that process happens in reserve. Foreign holdings slip of their grasp, institutions stop functioning, lots of areas just stop getting resources to maintain infrastructure and other constructions and so on. It happens in such a slow manner that most people grow up and just don't care that this place or that town is basically becoming a ruin because to them its always been close to that state since they're only 30 years old. Ask someone that's 60 or 90 and they might actually remember the place being in a decent state. By the time that 30 year old has a child or a grandchild, there might not even be a ruin left. Peter is basically in that transition generation where he can at least remember some things not being completely fucked but even he doesn't remember the height of the empire and probably not even his grandparents either. That's how long this decline has been taking place. Any notion that this trend is somehow going to stop any time soon is complete nonsense. The UK could sometime in this century just become England and Wales, from a zenith where the British ruled almost half the world's land. And the conversation is framed in terms of a possible collapse? Future historians would laugh.

[@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp]

If it's been in a constant state of decline for "over a century" why do people look backs so fondly at the 50s and 60s? The fact of the matter is little men like you can't offer effective resistance to the Tories. In fact the only reason you pretend to care at all is that you think you're paying too much rent

[@snakeplissken5480]

well everything has collapsed apart from the state itself which is now multipliers larger than it was even at the height of empire

[@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp]

@@snakeplissken5480 The state whose functions have been privatised or outsourced and thus is used to funnel vast sums to private pockets. So not that different to the 19th century when it existed to ensure those private pockets weren't disturbed in making ordinary British people work the longest hours for the lowest share of the national income to consume the least amount of calories in their history

[@xcskidog6937]

You don't realise how obsessed the UK is with war and The War until you live abroad. For example, the use of "......since the war " as a time marker, and the several war films/dramas on TV every day

[@stephensimpson8531]

It is a historically significant marker. In “Inequality and the 1%”, Danny Dorling discusses the seismic shift that occurred as a consequence of the wars. We went from a nation crippled by inequality that wasted its human potential, to one that was moderately egalitarian due to the aggressive redistribution during and immediately after WW2. Then comes the Keynesian era which, arguably, ran out of steam in the late 70s. After that it’s been a slippery slide into the weird, dysfunctional globalist kleptocracy we’ve descended into….point being, when understanding our national history, WW2 is sort of pivotal. We were a very different nation before it. After it, it’s been a continuous narrative. Depressing, but continuous

[@julianshepherd2038]

Things were very different after the war.

[@rachelduncan1501]

Agree 100 %...

[@hmq9052]

Check out how many postcodes in the UK were bombed in WW2. Most of them. It was something of a big deal

[@hmq9052]

Most postcodes were bombed in WW2. It was quite a big deal

[@MargaretDeakin-d6m]

Aaron, in the 60s I had 3 siblings that passed the 11+ , my sister was told by her father ( my stepfather) that she could not go. One brother got expelled for anti social behaviour eg he could not adjust to middle class values and behaviour.( we were a big rough working class family) the eldest brother fitted in quite well, and eventually entered a good profession. This system was fairer for poor and clever kids. However, I believe that those with natural intelligence do well in all school systems, but the chaos and underfunding of our state education system over time can make learning challenging even for the brightest.

[@alistairrobinson3865]

Lived in the Netherlands 13 years, back in uk since 2022, it’s decades behind, sad

[@standardprocedure7017]

Decade of Tory rule perhaps. Behind in what way ?

[@NightsideOfParadise]

​@@stephensimpson8531 That implies its irrational when its not.

[@alistairrobinson3865]

⁠@@standardprocedure7017infrastructure, public services, transport, layout, more financial equality etc you can get a train anywhere very cheaply, you can cycle on a specific bike road network throughout the entire country, zero problems ever seeing a doctor/ dentist, easy to buy cheap / fresh produce, it’s just such an easy place to live, you pay higher taxes (including wealth taxes), but they are well spent and is worth it. They have proportional representation which I expect facilitates better longer term planning vs week to week political headline management we have here.

[@adroninggoodtime]

@@stephensimpson8531 lol Islamophobia, is your head in the sand ?

[@carolkatholnig585]

Lived in Switzerland for many years. Uk is very behind in living standards seem to have no idea how to be efficient or interested in the public at large.

[@MarkJVSomers]

'I don't believe in war crimes, all wars are crimes'. Absolutely, a point that is not often made.

[@lostat400]

Wrong, sometimes war is aggressive and sometimes it is defensive.

[@niburu1508]

Not what the warmongers recognise. They want to think they are doing something useful and talk about bravery and honour and medals. They need to be stopped.

[@abazely2743]

More to the point crimes are a war of sorts,good v bad.Come to think of it the human body is in a constant battle to survive that always ends in defeat.

[@mrjagriff]

Says someone who’s never being punched in the face

[@kevinlindsay5255]

what do you do if your invaded ???

[@Bluepilled-c5t]

Excellent interview. I often think I have things worked out, until I listen to Peter.

[@markus.schiefer]

He said quite a few interesting things, especially with history context, but his take on Palestine was surprisingly hollow.

[@S.Aliona]

Тоже могу сказать и о России))

[@realCharAznable]

Well of course he's going to side with his own people. He's very proud of that small part of his heritage.

[@mrfishy3]

Also on Russia I was expecting more. The idea that Russia expected to win militarily with the force they sent in is not credible. You can't win an invasion with a smaller force than the defending force (well except Germany when invading France :) ), it was a drastic, and violent step to force negotiation.

[@Bucketheadhead]

He always has been pro-Israel, in contrast to his dead brother.

[@arnoldhemsley9317]

Very true Buck. Christopher had it right@@Bucketheadhead

[@davegubbins4428]

tory has sold us and our nation/s down the river...and handed all of the resulting loot to some of the richest folks on earth.

[@seanmoran2743]

The Tories are the Money Don’t confuse them with actual Conservatives

[@geoffreynhill2833]

Its real name is NERO-liberalism. 😎☠👺... 🤔(Green Fire UK)🌈🦉

[@BlyatimirPootin]

​@@seanmoran2743what exactly is an actual Conservative?

[@johnwright9372]

The neoliberal settlement from Reagan and Thatcher began the economic decline of the West.

[@dreamdiction]

Not one government (both parties) since WW2 has ever criticized immigration which has ruined this country.

[@paulwarren3106]

The economy hasn't "collapsed" though. That's an easy myth that keeps the poor supine. In fact Britain has the 6th highest GDP in the world; the problem is that a disproportionate part of that GDP "pie" goes to the very wealthy (in ways such as better infrastructure in the SE, better policing in rich areas etc). If that GDP were spent more equitably Britain would look a lot more like Denmark.

[@DamBrooks]

We waste our resources on what we used to be, possibly the best quote that encapsulates the problem with imagining what the country is.

[@michaelpearl-r8w]

We live in a country where the bulk of the population is in the same down trodden position as it was at the start of the industrial revolution. Britain is governed by the rich for the rich and always has been, the populace is so suppressed it will not change!.

[@thebenevolentsun6575]

Don't be hyperbolic. We live in conditions nowhere near the conditions of the early industrial revolution.

[@michaelpearl-r8w]

@@thebenevolentsun6575 I didn't say we live in the same conditions as at the start of the industrial revolution, I said that a lot of us are in the same position, we may have more 'freedoms' on paper but in reality most of us are unable to realise them ,we just live our lives one day at a time hoping that things will get better.

[@den264]

Britain today resembles America in the late seventies. However the economy there recieved mass injection of money to lubricate the economy and within ten years it entered a period of un matched prosperity. The era of the YUPPIE soon followed.

[@jonw9417]

As a person of the left, I've got to admit I like listening to Peter.

[@liamoconlocha3264]

I still live in the Netherlands, where one has a pension of up to 90% of your earnings, hard to believe that people can't pay the everyday bills in GB

[@tancreddehauteville764]

The UK pension system is broken. The reason is that the job of providing pensions was passed to employers, with the state paying minimal sum, called the 'state pension', which is only around 25-30% of average salaries. The problem is that employers in the private sector have nearly all moved to a defined contribution method where the investment risk has been passed to employees. This problem has been compounded by employers not making big enough contributions.

[@dreamdiction]

hahaha -- how long do you think the Dutch can keep their welfare system going ?

[@liamoconlocha3264]

@@dreamdiction well that is strange, you laugh, but give no argument for your laugh, so let's hear a decent argument

[@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp]

@@dreamdiction For as long as they want to. It's our corporate welfare system which has hollowed out the public finances

[@m4ckle]

@@dreamdictionyour comment seems to contain an element of “well it’s shit here so I’m hoping it gets shit over there too”

[@tahmed2176]

People like Hitchens are capable of intriguing analysis for some things but also very obviously have the blinds up for others. Disingenuous intellectuals tend to employ sophistry when it suits them and for that reason they're not my cup of tea. Nonetheless, great job once again Aaron and Novara.

[@ThyCorylus]

Sounds very human to me.

[@tahmed2176]

@@ThyCorylus I dunno, I don't think 'letting personal bias getting in the way of being intellectually honest and consequently committing to bad faith arguments' should be the normative disposition.

[@eddyk2016]

Peters right. Just look out side, everywhere looks shabby and worn out. Even now in central London, there’s empty boarded up shops with fancy decoration on the glass, to cover up the fact they are empty, and have been for a year plus, Central London! Country is scruffy as foook

[@Skembear000]

Peter Hitchens is expert at interviews. He stops talking for a second, to let the interviewer in, then continues to talk over them

[@mdaddy775]

He's an expert rambler

[@AtheistEve]

Christopher Hitchens used to do that as well.

[@dandare1001]

Yes, he's pretty rude, as is Bastani. Both butt in, so often. I think they needed a moderator.

[@AtheistEve]

@@dandare1001 I think it’s just Hitchens’ misleading speech patterns. The pause is never a full stop. Until he says it is. And even then. It might not be. I wonder if his writing is similar.

[@dandare1001]

@@AtheistEveHe always seems to be demanding respect, rather than earning it. I do agree with him quite often, but I find him really irritating for his rudeness and also his inflexibility and stubbornness regarding opposing opinions. I don't know how one would transpose his speaking style to a written page. Lot's of blank pages, perhaps?

[@Patrick-jj5nh]

Fundamentally, we like Peter because he recognises that Britain today doesn't work for most people and that our society is highly divided - but his view is to go back (or that it's in fact too late) to revert to some golden age in the past...

[@frankshailes3205]

He specifically said it is not possible to go back, especially the education system.

[@George_Melons]

You're being overly simplistic. I'm not a navarro media consumer but I have followed hitchens for 12 years. Nobody believes we can go back in time, but when prior institutions and values were important to the stability and operation of society and we increasingly move away from them, its just as irrational to argue we should continue as its too late then to give a reassesment of our reasons for doing so and change course. Marching ahead bliny for 'progress' is what got us in this mess in the first place.

[@celiacresswell6909]

@@OneTrueScotsmannot many people like Peter but he spits a lot of unpalatable truths: maybe the two things are connected in some way

[@stevewilliamsbiz1080]

​@@OneTrueScotsman I am sure he is greatly upset

[@HorseWithNoUsername]

He always says that he does not desire to "go back to a golden age" because there wasn't one.

[@billmartins5545]

I'm Dutch, been living in England for 10+ years now. The UK is so run down, damp, old, dilapidated, littered, such bad infrastructure in areas, it's unreal. The NHS is bad too. It can take me twice as long by car in the UK as driving the same distance in NL simply because here in the UK if you live a bit outside a big city, you have to drive through several small towns to get onto a larger road whereas in NL most small towns are well connected to larger roads. I don't know what Britons have been doing for the past 100 years but it's clearly not been modernising or even just maintenance. If it wasn't for personal life, I'd have left the UK after my PhD.

[@narrowboatphotography2615]

Agreed. I'm lucky and have an Australian passport. I'll use it in the next few years and go back.

[@adnans8778]

Hitchens's point about concluding that Jews need a state overlooks where this state should be. Modern Zionism believes Palestine should be ethnically cleansed to make way for this state. The rest of us wonder why an innocent group of indigenous people should suffer for this state and not the main perpetrators of antisemitism in Europe.

[@wellyman2008]

Its probably too late to give the Jews Bavaria

[@richardlewis7498]

innocent hmm dont think so

[@TheLucanicLord]

If they'd given them Florida would the US be quite so supportive?

[@mks1975a]

You also have the indigenous people the wrong way around just because its called Palestine does not mean the indigenous people are the Palestinians , that's like saying Australia belongs to the Australians, New Zealand belongs the New Zealanders as they must be the indigenous people to those lands - Palestine was the name the region was given by the Romans after they conquered it prior to that it was Israel (and lot bigger that the current boarders)

[@adnans8778]

@@wellyman2008 But it's not too late to give Palestinians equal rights. In fact its long overdue. One state solution, give everyone equal rights Jews, Muslims and Christians.

[@ELLISRUGER8]

Alone Britain is another tree in the forest, it used to be very important but for all the wrong reasons. Now Britain (or perhaps more correctly the UK) is only important due to its structural support of the USA whose, empire may be nearing collapse. The USA needs poodle states and the UK is more than happy to do it.

[@oldishandwoke-ish1181]

Exactly. Our vanity has led us to divorce everyone except the U.S.A.

[@lindasemple4687]

I think you mean perhaps more correctly ‘England’ rather than Britain or U.K.

[@JamalBrown-k1x]

Britain isn't what it used to be but is still important. 6th largest economy, largest financial exporter, second largest servises sector, 8th largest manufacturer, not what it was but still in the top 7 in Armed forces terms. Some of the best universities. 2nd only to the U.S in terms of the creative sector, such as music acting and so on.

[@S.Aliona]

You mean the lying, sneaky state and the oligarchs. Ordinary people are slaves just like everywhere else.

[@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp]

@@lindasemple4687 Why would that be? What exactly do Wales and Scotland have to offer?

[@michaelbritton9778]

Really enjoyed this. Very good. Nice to listen to someone talking sense for a change.

[@bloodynorahvan2203]

His opening line is 100% true - the quality of life on the continent is noticably better. The gap has widened hugely in the last 15 or so years

[@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp]

And why did the Europeans want Britain in the EU then? Because they wanted the most neoliberal state in Western Europe to help break the social Europe model

[@KramerMC5]

The past fifteen years have seen England nosedive. The NHS has been eviscerated and Brexit has accelerated the downward process. All NHS workers I have spoken to do not hold back on how badly things have become or that they are going to work in the private sector. Now that we have lost FOM due to Brexit, means escape is a much more difficult task.

[@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp]

@@KramerMC5 People voted to Leave precisely because the situation was getting worse and worse. If those in love with the EU had listened and done something about all the problems that were apparent to everyone with eyes, we might still be in their precious anti democratic neoliberal club "escape"? So the answer to problems is to just run away? Free movement of labour was the last straw and affected too many people's jobs and wages - but you won't listen!

[@jdo1014]

Tax is higher in many Western European countries. They also have mandatory health insurance in many. People would soon start moaning about that.

[@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp]

@@jdo1014 Wages are higher too and property prices lower

[@SentientPicturesLtd]

Peter's notion that a hands-off approach to Israel-Palestine that focuses on soft rapproachment without concern for actual political rights is utterly infantalizing of the Arab population.

[@mrcockney-nutjob3832]

Why get involved? Both groups are the enemies of Europe.

[@ronmackinnon9374]

Don't know what he's talking about when he says that no one can tell you how '1984' begins and ends. It's been years since I've read it, and I still know that it begins with: 'It was a windy day in April and the clocks were striking thirteen.' and ends with: 'He loved Big Brother.'

[@MartinParsons-tr6wi]

"We've lost him, Jack."

[@johnwalters5410]

Doubleplusgood😅

[@rtleeson]

He means how big brother came to be and what happened to it

[@saifulhaque5135]

Tv license surprises a lot of people outside Britain. It doesn’t make any sense at all

[@Philbert-s2c]

Kind of pointless in a society where many people no longer own one.

[@clambert608]

much of Europe pays something similar... here in Germany its the GEZ

[@DeanRTaylor]

A lot of countries didn't have terrestrial television in the same way we did. It doesn't make it wrong. At the time it made sense, now it doesn't. The same can be said for phone boxes. They are absolutely bizarre to many countries.

[@m4ckle]

@@clambert608and it’s much harder to get out of paying the GEZ as well. As soon as you Anmeldung, the letters start and if you leave the country there’s some hoops to jump through to stop them sending more letters. Same for GKV insurance actually, they want evidence that you are leaving the country otherwise the amount they say you owe continues to grow.

[@Mike-br8zt]

​@@m4ckleYep, the stempelmeister/in will be after you

[@dr.bilalnazir]

As an educationist, the whole discussion on education is much more complex than what Peter is suggesting. Education policy has changed for the worse but for varied reasons.

[@restrictionmars4288]

I thought so as well. I find it hard not to be slightly bamboozled by Hitchens' drawn-out answers to relatively simple questions, but about halfway through the bit about education I felt a growing sense of disappointment that the great Peter Hitchens' take on education didn't amount to much more than another old fart moaning about O-Levels...

[@fionaetienne1693]

​@@restrictionmars4288yes bloody ridiculous!

[@MartinDixon-iq9cp]

I agree with him I think grammar schools should be reintroduced. They won't be though ad the establishment do not want upwardly mobile, educated working class people.

[@flashgordon6670]

They dealt with a lot of topics in a very short time. So they had to summarise things a bit much. I thought they did excellently to get through, as much as they did. You can not pick at the education part, but generally in broad terms, Peter is right. The Old Way was better. A good counter, to his taking a wrong turn analogy. Would be, it’s better to look for a turn off further ahead. Than do a U turn and go back to the start. The world is a completely different ball game now, than the 1950s. If we could take modern technology back to then. What affect would it have, on that system and Society at large? They’d probably knock every school down, sack every teacher and everyone would just learn from home and at private institutions and community organisations. The Central Schools would be deemed unnecessary and consigned to history. This has to be on the cards, since the Technology Revolution.

[@BalrajTakhar-u7u]

@@MartinDixon-iq9cp Absolutely. Coming from a working class background I'm one of the last (late 80s) to have had access to our local grammar before it became in effect a private fee paying school. All children would benefit from a high class education. Not just academic, but sporting and cultural (ie exposure to the high arts). But no government is willing to put the money in required. Is it because it would allow the proles better access to better jobs and positions of authority ? What both main parties have done is to try and fool everyone by lowering standards and pass rates to make it appear the education system is performing as it should.

[@Shaun-sh1op]

Its on brink of being a Muslim country

[@eefiasfira]

Wrong! Muslim countries are better.

[@sukotu23]

His comments about people buying books and not reading them... I feel personally attacked.

[@johnmckiernan2176]

The colour and variation on my shelf makes up for any lack of colour and variation in my mind, I feel.

[@paulheydarian1281]

Well, read the damn things. 😅

[@djinnxx7050]

I've read at least 95% of the books I currently own and have ever owned. I haven't owned many, but the ones I do are great.

[@DonBean-ej4ou]

​@@djinnxx7050your so interesting. Please do tell us more.

​@@djinnxx7050how many do you own😂

[@arfived4]

On the subject of selective education, I went to a bog-standard provincial comprehensive in the late 80s/early 90s, and the first thing I noticed on starting university, was just how thick the public school types were, and just how few of them realised it.

[@xenophon1999]

Haha same here. I went to a crappy comprehensive up in the West Midlands in the early 90s and ended up studying at Nottingham and Kings. What I noticed was a lot public school types with a great deal of overconfidence and a great lack of self awareness.

[@themsmloveswar3985]

Oh...it goes beyond that....Oxford Prime Ministers in recent years have been a disaster. Two layers of bumbling ineptitude. Class based secondary education, and then a follow up of the same in third level. The consequences have been truly frightening.

[@mark4lev]

@@xenophon1999I went to public school in the 80’s on an assisted places scheme. My old man was a mechanic, mum was a cleaner. Some pupils were morbidly arrogant. The academic pupils, whose own parents were academic/ professional, I was in awe of.

[@jake751]

They usually have zero common sense.

[@SamMerchant-vn4or]

Trust me they still are!!!

[@markhoward1992-l4g]

Peter is a fascinating, intelligent guy, always enjoy listening to his honest open views, with no fear. 👌

[@scepisle4970]

Left England years ago .. can't face what it has become........

[@SagaciousFrank]

Good for you. Many of us are stuck here.

[@goych]

What has it become? Because this is often just racism talking?!

[@paulheydarian1281]

​​​@@goych The UK is too expen$ive, needlessly expen$ive. The British pound feels worthless. Inflation is the silent killer. Then there's the horrible infrastructure. Bad roads, terrible airports, expen$ive, inefficient train system. Finally, there's the NHS which is being deliberately bankrupted. The UK isn't a decent place for average folks.

[@SagaciousFrank]

@@goych , if you say so. I bet you can't wait for this extremism bill to be passed so that you think you have a window into other people's souls upon which to judge them.

[@greendragonspirit1646]

@goych , it's more of a criticism to the government when people criticise Britain . You have to admit, there's not much to brag about in Britain ( or nothing at all 😂).

[@lisamcandrews5739]

I’ve had friends visit England over the years, and all of them were very very disappointed. They could not believe how rundown it was. A couple of them said it look like a second world country. I’m a trip to Europe next year, but I’m not stopping in England.

[@leonpaul9443]

Just wondering why any of them expected anything else? Even at the height of its world domination in the victoriana era the country was notorious for its slums and abject poverty even back then visiting Europeans were shocked by what they saw. In ww1 they struggled to put an army in the field of over 1 million not because they did not have the men but the men they had were barely over 5ft and riddled with health problems due to the poverty and malnutrition. Britain being an island means its easy to defend but it also means its a geographical backwater just like Ireland and Iceland but Ireland and Iceland mitigate this by having small populations.

[@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp]

And where are you from?

[@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp]

@@leonpaul9443 "but Ireland and Iceland mitigate this by having small populations" Which is why the Left have supported massively increasing Britain's population via mass immigration

[@BakesModel81]

While half the population of the world lives in gutters only 15% can in Britain obviously didn't know how grey & cold it can get in around civilised lives..?

[@leonpaul9443]

@@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@gkh_92]

I decided to leave the UK a few years ago in my late 20s for a life abroad and can't see me going back any time soon. I see no opportunities in the UK and find the rampant levels of drug addiction, crime, poverty and failing public services there to be seriously depressing. I now live in a developing country but enjoy a far better standard of living than I did before and can see a doctor whenever I want. The same cannot be said for my friends back home ..

[@anthonytube]

Well down you! I wish I had done the same. I came close after travelling to several places and determined not to let our young daughter grow up here. I grew up in N.Ireland and every time I go home I'm reminded how bad things are in England. May I ask where you moved to? Best wishes Anthony

[@nickstone3113]

I retired to Bulgaria and totally happy and I have had to have had extensive contact with health service too. I am not running down NHS as worked in it as a mental health professional. But governments just go around in circles.

[@paulmorris9605]

which country did you move to ?

[@paulmorris9605]

@@nickstone3113 but how do you get on in Bulgaria unless you speak the language....unless your wife is a local

[@nickstone3113]

@@paulmorris9605 hi. Well I am Anglo Greek so the culture ,main Orthodox Christian Faith is mine too . But above all I learnt the language and read and write and I only mix with Bulgarians . I don't think I would have survived covid if I had been in UK. . What you must not do is constantly compare to where you from. . As the writer of The Go between, E M Forster. said ,' The past is another country and they do things differently there "!

[@streetlegalone]

As much as I know about it, I think that the German educational system has it about right. Give students the choice to follow a more academic or more vocational path, with schools reflecting this choice and with no stigma attach to these choices.

[@r_cd16]

But could that be created in Britain, given its social structure? I have my doubts.

[@clambert608]

Agreed, its a better system in Germany. However, children are separated and send to the relevant school already at 11 years old. Kind of shit if you get sent you Hauptschule because of bad grades in primary school resulting in you needing to do 2-3 more years of school just to get your Abi, even then you might not get in to a University rather than a Hochschule...

[@munaali840]

yes, I think people attacking how low they score in maths and science dont understand that half do minimal in those subjects and are only trained in what they need for vocational training. Im sure if they split the grades from those that go into higher education the grades would be higher.

[@HorseWithNoUsername]

@@r_cd16 It WAS the case in Britain before the destruction of the grammar schools.

[@wts7759]

Vocational training in the UK has been looked down upon for yours exacerbated by successive governments...no wonder so many choose to move abroad ​@@r_cd16

[@krystalhafesji]

This was a very interesting listen. Thank you Aaron.

[@notgodzod]

Couldn't agree more about the transition from O-levels to GCSEs. I was in the first year to do GCSEs so our past papers were O-levels. They were definitely more challenging (just to be clear, I would have aced my O-levels - but nonetheless, I recognised even then that they were more difficult than GCSEs). And I used to teach philosophy at a university in the mid-late 90s through to about 2008. The decline in the preparedness of the students over was stark. Less capacity for independent thought; instead, a desire to be spoon fed. They seemed to think that the purpose of the lectures was to enable them to pass exams rather than actually gain knowledge.

[@threethrushes]

Where did you teach? What happened after 2008?

[@notgodzod]

@@threethrushes I won't name the university as I don't think that's right, anyway my impression is that it was happening across the whole sector. I just left in 2008 and did something else.

[@mcihs2]

Has always been thus, whilst knowledge may be power, accreditation gets you a Government sponsored job and money for life….

[@bilbobaggins5752]

Karl Pilkington visited Israel and Palestine but it doesn't make him an authority on the conflict

[@RuinMassia]

You learn more from your defeats or setbacks than from victory and the Brexit referendum was a perfect example of this. The amount of people that used WW2 as a reference point to vote leave was like what century are we living in

[@ThyCorylus]

Hitchen's makes an uncomfortable point regarding societal decline in relation to the family. Even if it's uncomfortable to progressive and inclusive sensibilities the traditional stable family unit is essential.

[@RobertMcGlynn-g7h]

Hitchens' views on Gaza are ridiculous... Simply because he's "visited" Israel doesn't make them more authoritative... LOL

[@elenaguglielmin8750]

: )))) "Have you visited Israel? No? That's the trouble" : DDD that's why a 2-state-solution was never found, as all other people never visited israel : D

[@christinefiedor3518]

The Gaza situation is very complex and has been going on for a long time so nobody is authoritative. I lived and worked in the Middle East where the hate was palpable and I saw and heard some unspeakable things. The events of 7/10 did not surprise me . But I do not consider authoritative. But I have to say many of the people on marches for Palestine simply do not have a clue what they are talking about. ☹

[@Fredmayve]

It makes him more brainwashed

[@Fredmayve]

​@@christinefiedor3518No, it is not complex, it is a vanilla case of Lebensraum fascist genocide.

[@jeffsimon9594]

@@Fredmayve To a bloody-minded leftist ideologue, sure

[@christinefiedor3518]

I emigrated to Australia in 1989 but try to visit every couple of years and keep abreast of current affairs. I have sadly watched over the years as the UK s successive governments have mistake after mistake hoping I was wrong . But now the chickens are coming home to roost . I can’t believe what’s happened to the country of my birth that I still love dearly.

[@CallousCarter]

You gonna come back here and help us out then?

[@christinefiedor3518]

Alas, I wouldn’t be much use as had a stroke which resulted in disability! @@CallousCarter

[@vmoses1979]

Love it or leave it as the Americans say. Don't think you love it all that much. And nothing wrong with that.

[@threethrushes]

@@CallousCarterI've done everything for my country and it wasn't rewarded. I emigrated to central Europe in 2015 where my labour and industry has been appreciated.

[@marvinbrando722]

It is horrible

[@angusmcclelland4846]

Ofc. Britain died quietly years ago and no one in the general population noticed. RIP

[@aynos629]

Bloody hell, my parents in Spain live better than me in the UK!

[@unduloid]

Well yeah, jobless stoners tend to be do much better in Spain.

[@paulheydarian1281]

​@@unduloid🤔😁🤣

[@hieroglyph321]

​... maybe, but so does everyone else... I'd rather be a jobless stoner in Spain than fully employed in the rat race in the UK

[@IndigoStargazer]

Why the surprise ?

[@Fredmayve]

Why is that a surprise?

[@gmatic8230]

THANK YOU FOR THIS, LOVELY CHAT!

[@christopherfox735]

Another great interview. Aaron gets better & better at teasing out how people really think.

[@nikkinounou8355]

How could you say Israel would give the land, you should say Israel should return the land they stole. He forgot to mention that Israel was given the land of the Palestinians by the British colonisers.

[@SnowCedarQueen]

Israel held Britain to a deal to get the land by getting USA to help them with the war.

[@jesperburns]

After the Arabs there refused to negotiate over the terms and tried to scare away the Jews with terrorism that were already allowed to settle there while the Ottomans ruled that region for 400 years.

[@unduloid]

Yes, after the British promised the Palestinians they would get the land back if they'd help the Brits against the Ottomans.

[@stephenglasse2743]

so did they 'steal' it or were they 'given' it? how was it 'the land of the palestinians' when palestine was a part of the ottoman turkish (non-arabic) empire?

[@unduloid]

@@stephenglasse2743 It's the land of the Palestinians on account of Palestinians having lived there for many generations. It's not that hard.

[@thefuturAI]

Great high quality interview, and I admire peter hitchins more and more over time.

[@shirleydrury5565]

We thank you both 😊😊

[@DamBrooks]

The Cameron Delusion is now in my audiobook collection, I began listening to books because I now struggle to read books thanks to my MS, the joys of being an old raspberry ripple 😅

[@Rebelconformist82]

❤

[@lymskiUK]

What a fantastic interview/discussion. Well chaired and Hitchins comes accross well, he’s pragmatic and some of his experience might be exaggerated but he’s been around the block and it was enjoyable hearing him talk about the subjects raised. Good work Señor Bastani

[@AIainMConnachie]

Such a bracing admixture of brilliance well salted with plenty of ignorance

[@AIainMConnachie]

Both chaps. Not just Hitchens

[@laogong52]

Peter in spite of his prior comprehensive understanding of USSR and Russia. He really is not up to speed on the tyrant in the West. Still a child of empire. Pure projection.

[@S.Aliona]

He also knows about Russia on TV and propaganda

[@andreafalconiero9089]

@@S.Aliona That's not quite fair. Yes, his understanding of Russian arms production, and the state of the Russian military (both at the beginning of the current conflict, as well as now) is woefully poor. He also makes the basic rookie mistake of assuming that success in war can be measured in square kilometres, which isn't true until a war is concluded. He should read von Clausewitz if he wants to understand Russian military strategy. Nevertheless he is still better informed about affairs in Russia and Ukraine than the average westerner, and made a few valid points.

[@S.Aliona]

@@andreafalconiero9089 His statements are full of lies and stereotypes

[@andreafalconiero9089]

@@S.Aliona Yes, that's also true!

[@toucheturtle3840]

He’s a pious prat

[@Roog1111]

Aaron, I feel that Peter was ‘wrong’ about the Palestinian-Israeli part. He sometimes loves the sound of his own voice too much. Laissez faire attitudes sound compelling, may have allowed some surface wounds to heal. But it was not peace as there were illegal land grabs happening at the same time by Israeli settlers. How can peace happen when that is going on?

[@stephenglasse2743]

many if not all of those land grabs are not illegal and are in areas that will be retained by Israel anyway. If the palestinians can't make a success of the areas that they do have control of eg Gaza why should Israelis 'hand around'?

[@stephenglasse2743]

@@OneTrueScotsman not really lol. he was right about Iraq WMD unlike his brother. he was right about lockdowns, he's right about the israeli-palestinian issue. he was right about George Bell. it just goes on.

[@celiacresswell6909]

@@stephenglasse2743I don’t blame him for not having a solution to the intractable

[@pchurchill]

does he have skin in the game ?

[@johntruman4397]

My wife and I both came from very poor backgrounds but we brought our children up to be successful and after time spent advising them ,we now have 2 millionaire's in the family. None of them went to university as we could not afford it at the time, but they made their way to good jobs through their common sense.

[@Treehugging_Leftie]

I knew exactly what Peter H meant by the Maltese Birth Certificate being the size of a Pillow case as my mum’s was the same. She was Maltese. Also back in the day the Police also were in charge of Driving Tests. My mum passed hers without taking the actual driving test because her father bribed the local cop with a small fishing boat. When my dad - a Royal Marine Commando based on Malta when he met my mum - found out he insisted that she took the Driving Test in England regardless of her valid driving licence from Malta which was then still British. However passing the English Driving Exam never stopped my mum driving unnecessarily fast which is a very common thing among the Maltese 😁

[@marknoblet5289]

So much good stuff here especially on education. We've gone past the point of no return without vast investment. On grammar schools, he misses one very important point: With or without grammar schools, wealth will buy you a better education through postcode or the ability to pay for 11-plus tutoring. You can't stop wealthy parents purchasing places at grammar schools through employing private tutors to teach their kids to the test. In Halifax where grammar schools still exist, as a primary school teacher I watched many of the brightest kids miss out on a grammar school place to less able kids whose parents spent thousands on tuition for a very specific test that isn't part of the national curriculum. Halifax has some wealthy areas but far more poverty than average. Wealthy families from miles around are able to purchase a private style secondary education for an amount of money that's insignificant to them and entirely out of reach for those less wealthy.

[@threethrushes]

When will you accept that parents have freedom to make economic choices? Some parents choose to buy iPhones, holidays in Ibiza, new cars, jewellery, cigarettes, booze, and so on. Some parents choose tutors, books, visits to museums, online lectures, and so on. Guess which children will probably fare better?

[@notlimey]

In High School in Canada in the 1960s we were required to read 1984 and Brave New World and discuss them together.

[@alansealey3899]

Brilliant. Thank you both.

[@merocaine]

I lived in the UK for 3 years in the early 2000s. At that time I was shocked by the deprivation I found, the gap between the rich and poor, the gap between the north and the south. I was shocked by the endless charity shops, porno stores, strip clubs and bookies in English towns. I was shocked by the depth of ignorance about their own history. The pervasive misogynistic vibe of that time, tits on page 3, porno mags filling every newsagents. I was shocked by the ghettoisation of migrant communities. It was clear to me then there was something unwell about England, a spirit of meanness pervaded. I came from another English speaking country, a near neighbour, and I thought I knew what Britain was like, I'd grown up listening to British pop, reading British novels, British movies, I thought I knew the country, I was wrong, it's more Ken Loach than Notting Hill for sure.

[@kevinengland7444]

Is there something wrong with you? You can't say Ireland? Ireland - an historically poor country that was subsidised by the richer EU nations [including the UK] until it caught up. A country so traditionally poor that it always taught its schoolchildren to leave the country, usually for the UK. I could go on and on and on and utterly destroy everything you've said. Can't be bothered. No-one cares what the Irish think.

[@wallybingbang4350]

Ken Loach and Paul Laverty are great at putting the shithole on the screen I, Daniel Blake

[@threethrushes]

This is an astute commentary. I'm a Londoner, and I left the U.K. in 2015. There are pockets of excellence, beauty, and artistry - but the political discourse is immature.

[@1world1peace1]

This was a good debate/conversation until Peter insisted on just talking over Aaron, becoming almost monological at times 😊

[@murraymorison3924]

Engaging interview. Thank you.

[@garethllewellyn6617]

Just Peter's answer to the final question Aaron poses is superb. Well done Aaron for getting Peter Hitchens back on. Sadly, truly educated and insightful guests are still too rare at these long form interviews, and you've had a good one here!

[@N_Lucas]

The grammar school debate is a very funny one, by definition they are picking the ‘brightest’ 11 year olds and leaving everyone else in the area to go to ‘lesser’ schools. How does this raise the education standards for everyone?

[@eldrago19]

Yeah, I agree with Hitchens on a lot of things but the idea that you should tell a large part of your population off at age 11 that they're stupid and send them somewhere they'll be told not to bother with learning is foolish.

[@jackkelly6890]

It doesn't. It does stop the brightest kids in society from wasting away in awful schools which probably benefits society overall. Although you'd hope we could just fix our schools so that noone's life is wasted away or opportunities squandered in subpar schools

[@colindant3410]

Arguably standards cannot be raised. What can be improved is improving the relevance of what is taught in secondary education to the needs of the economy. The problems with this aim is the pace of change, finding sufficient teachers with the appropriate mixture of intellectual and practical abilities to cope with the considerable challenge of delivering the subject content in a manner which engages the pupils effectively in the learning process. One cannot get away from the reality of the distribution of academic ability. I recall being informed over fifty years years ago that the average attainment at age 16 was CSE grade 4. It would be more effective if pupils were given an education which was more reflective of their abilities and interests. I believe that this was what was intended with the post-war provision of grammar schools and secondary modern schools. There were far more apprenticeships available back then, and many youngsters have made good careers in various trades. Nowadays too high a proportion of youngsters go on to higher education to study for degrees which have limited value in tbe market place. In fact, these days, getting a degree is almost seen as a necessary rite of passage, whereas sixty years ago only a relatively small proportion of pupils entered higher education.

[@jackkelly6890]

@@colindant3410 agree, maybe with ai it will reduce the education burden on teachers so that students can teach themselves and use ai to mark their work. The incredible things I’ve already used ai to teach me and quiz me on is absolutely amazing. But yes we need to find a way to teach kids IT, Science, Engineering & Maths without having to pay engineers ridiculously high salaries to go to schools & teach what they know & ofc encourage apprenticeships & hands on learning

[@Sean_k_]

Going to a "lesser" school doesn't mean you can't go on to be a productive and intelligent member of society.

[@mattantonelli-x9l]

Fantastic enjoyable conversation and very powerful knowledge here

[@Peter-iz2lm]

Aaron you can write a letter to the Home Office and simply point out you want to travel to Iran and Israel and they will happily supply you a second passport. A 5 minute letter and travel freely anywhere. Just don't take the passport with the Israeli visa into Teheran! Not so hard x

[@toomuchadvice]

I'm nearly 70 years old and I enjoyed this interview very much, but it has destroyed me. Learning everything that I have ever been taught and believed my entire life has been a brain washing exercise by people in power to create an illusion that Britain is Great. I'm shattered!

[@anthonytube]

I can tell you that Britain is anything but great today. Living here now, struggling to pay the mortgage and bills. My wife unwilling to walk to the bus stop in the dark for fear of attack. Kids running around with machetes and zombie knifes, drug addiction, homelessness, poverty and 60%+ towns just falling apart at the seams. Extortionate cost of living, high taxes, costly child care, most expensive public transport in the world, small pensions, filth, dirt, people with no pride, laziness, I could write all day. Yes we have a home but mortgaged to the eyeballs and we have the NHS that's on it's knees and still after 8 months waiting for a simple scan. Britain sadly will never be the same.

[@zuzanazuscinova5209]

​@@anthonytubeno way public transport is more expensive than the US

[@anthonytube]

@@zuzanazuscinova5209Where in the UK do you live?! USA much cheaper and as it’s a huge country you can go much further for less!

[@threethrushes]

@@anthonytubeAgree with this. Londoner here and I left in 2015.

[@grannyannie2948]

Australian here, we have working families living in cars and tents as the cost of living is so high.

[@lkm3s]

Am I correct in recalling that at one point in the conversation Hitchen's referred to the 2 state solution as an appeasment, but at the end of the conversation he referred to a peace agreement being viewed by Ukrainians as capitulation was in his view a misunderstanding of the word capitulation. Capitulation: "the action of ceasing to resist an opponent or demand" and Appeasement: "the act of giving the opposing side in an argument or war an advantage that they have demanded, in order to prevent further disagreement" If one is appeasment that should be avoided, and the other is capitulation (or a peace agreement) and should be sought, what is the criteria that makes them different?

[@threethrushes]

Capitulation happens during fighting. Appeasement happens before two sides are fighting.

[@jonpritz8358]

Brilliant earthy interview & Peter Hitchens has earned my deep respect..Thanks folks & please keep shining your honest lights....

[@SFRZRD]

I moved to Colombia in ‘21 - to this day it shocks me just how much here is miles ahead of the UK.

[@sukotu23]

Can you give some examples?

[@riveranalyse]

I'd love some examples too! (Out of curiosity, not scepticism)

[@eldrago19]

Can't say I've been to Cambodia but I did meet a Cambodian the other week and when I asked what it was like the jist of her answer was a lot poorer than the UK.

[@johnmckiernan2176]

@@eldrago19 Colombia =/= Cambodia.

[@SFRZRD]

@sukotu23 @riveranalyse Before I say this - of course I’m aware there are areas which are worse than the UK, but right now I live in an average neighbourhood on £850 a month and tbh live like a king. Electricity, water, gas and public maintenance are grouped into one monthly bill, you pay according to your areas ‘estrato’ which is a number based on property prices of the area etc (there is an argument there for how it creates a hierarchy of society), but the lower number you are, the cheaper your bills are / the richer ones subsidise it more - I’m in estrato 3 and my combined utility bills, gas, leccy, water, maintenance average £30-£35 a month on a two bed apartment. (My modern 2 bed apartment with two bathrooms and access to a gym and pool is £476 a month) Medical care - it’s a little complicated and there is some public & private, but it’s affordable, I can say that much. Medication interests me more - I can get 99% of medicines without prescription (except antibiotics) and 99% of the time they’re cheaper than the UK prescription fee. If I need eczema cream? I get it within 10 mins for about £1.50 instead of nonsense week long 8am calls to get a doctor appointment in the Uk, prescription, blah blah blah. We have an app here called rappi, it’s a bit like deliveroo but you can get everything from jeans from h&m, to groceries, to medicines delivered within about 15 min, for no more than £1-£4, everyone uses it and tbh it amazes me every day, they can even go and withdraw money for you in a secure way. People care like crazy about plant and tree care in the streets, even right now there’s an orange tree growing oranges outside my window on the street - nobody picks them unless ripe and they’ll usually ask the house nearest if it’s ok. Littering is minimal in most places. Yea, theres cartels here, then even ‘own the neighbourhood’ I live in, called the oficina de envigado, but guess what? (Rightly or wrongly) Because of that, mine is one of the safest neighbourhoods in the country and that’s the case in many areas. The cartels actually tend to leave you alone as they’re more interested in their international businesses, and don’t want petty criminals taking up their time / destabilising their neighbourhoods. People are beautifully kind, even if they have very little. Community spirit is insanely tight, a lost dog will be found within 2hrs. Cleanest metro system I’ve ever seen, behind Japan. My unlimited everything phone plan is £5 a month and that’s the expensive one. We have little shops here called tiendas - open until about 1am, they’re basically off licenses and they have chairs tables and tvs (on sidewalks and in the middle of the street) and people sit, talk, eat crisps, have drinks and watch football and stuff - how long would a huge flat screen TV last on the street back home? Especially with alcohol involved. You can pay in 90% of shops here by scanning a QR code they have displayed on the counter, which processes the pigment and is linked to your bank account. 100% secure. Despite being the home of you know what - many people wouldn’t touch it, and there’s a huge stigma attached to it. Although I’ve seen it done in clubs as openly as sipping a beer. Crime tends to leave you alone, if you aren’t silly. (Sadly many Americans are absolutely driving crime up in some areas by coming here for women and the you know what) There’s always music playing somewhere and if certain music comes on, you’ll see people break out into salsa randomly, it’s beautiful. Public Wi-Fi literally everywhere Sorry about how unstructured all this was, it’s just hard to really word how different it is here, and get across just how much it’s shocked me how behind we are back home. If there’s any other questions, go ahead and ask haha

[@patrickselden5747]

An excellent, thought-provoking conversation, gentlemen. Thank you... ☝️😎

[@Contessa6363]

I went to Catholic School because the public school system in the State of California during the 1970s was deplorable. My parents were Catholic so they felt they wanted to give me the best chance. In that time period we were ahead of our public school peers in most subjects. Fortunately over the years the public system in California has improved somewhat . Of course there is still a long way to go!

[@BarriosGroupie]

I think the problem today is that many Brits don't seem to realize how Britain was incredibly fortunate to punch way above its political weight for the past few centuries. I find the current British national anthem _God save our King_ to be cringe in today's modern world.

[@LayLoow]

Like scratching a chalkboard that anthem

[@MrWhitmen1981]

Don’t like it then leave. Plenty of other nations around the world that don’t use it. Vote with your feet is the best way to show a failed state or culture.

[@chrisbuggy4849]

Suppose that there is a strong argument that the UK had a lot of clout because ...it did. Hardly punching above it's weight it was capable of great violence it was manipulative and innovative and believed in itself hey presto...clout. now however it feels like a shadow. Odd feeling. Might be good for others but feels sort of sad.

[@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp]

So a country's success is solely due to fortune is it? Maybe the problem today is the sad spiteful Left and its total inability to offer any sort of alternative to Tory rule because it's even more adept at p-ssing everyone off than they are

[@simonturner1]

​​@@MrWhitmen1981a childish response. As Hitchens says in this interview, real patriots don't think their country is perfect, they point out its flaws. Also, it's basically impossible to just up and leave these days. You either need to be independently wealthy or get a job offer in a very niche field.

[@bm8641]

Horrible place this island

[@frankshailes3205]

Leave then.

[@Alan_Wigz]

Horrible comment this comment

[@threethrushes]

@@frankshailes3205Excellent advice. I encourage any competent people to leave to enjoy a higher quality of life abroad.

[@alexthegrateme]

great interview/discussion. Thanks.

[@juniper150]

Hitchens is laudably principled on Assange, Ukraine, Cannabis, Covid and religion. But on Palestine, it’s all realpolitik, pragmatism, and to hell with international law. To advocate for a Nakba to assuage Holocaust guilt is fiendishly immoral

[@lawrencefrost9063]

Cry more. He is absolutely right about Palestine.

[@bezzyranx9839]

@@lawrencefrost9063🙄🙄🙄No he isn’t!!

[@twogsds]

Noam Chomsky spoke about how education is being used to create what the government wants and the government wants compliant consumers. Uneducated people are more easily controlled, less willing to question what they are told. Now pupils are tortured when they don’t conform by being isolated with zero stimulation.

[@mcihs2]

Somewhat ironic when you consider that Noam Chomsky is a Government mouthpiece….

[@twogsds]

@@mcihs2 where is the evidence of which you speak?