Britain’s Economy Will Only Get Worse | Aaron Bastani meets Gary Stevenson

Gary Stevenson (aka@garyseconomics) went from being Citibank's most profitable trader to one of the world's most incisive critics of the financial system.
Gary sat down with Aaron to discuss the lightbulb moment that led him away from trading, how economists can't predict anything and why the UK middle class is doomed.
Gary's book, 'The Trading Game' is out on the 5th March - you can pre-order it here:www.penguin.co.uk/books/45580...
00:00 Intro
03:32 Gary's Origins
13:41 The Trading Floor
24:24 Gary's First Bonus
33:34 Were You Happy?
36:41 The World's Best Economists
44:26 The Economy Will Get Worse Forever
1:01:25 How Do We Fix It?
1:20:45 Will Labour Change Anything?
1:24:34 Mental Health Impact
1:35:41 The Problem With The Media
1:43:50 What Does The Near Future Look Like?
Novara Live broadcasts every weekday from 6PM on KZbin and Twitch.
Episodes of Downstream are released Sundays at 6PM on KZbin.
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[@rmbull28]

The reason economists are so often wrong, is not just because they are not punished or face consequences for being wrong. It is because economists are not there to make the economy work or even to work out how the economy works. Economists are a priesthood class. And like all priesthood classes throughout history they serve one main function. To convince people to accept the current status quo with the promise of rewards at a future date.

[@vidnosh7406]

There is absolute nothing magical in economy. It is pure science. Mathematics and statistic. You just believe in the invisible hand and the markets will solve every problem. No rocket science.

[@marktaylor6491]

I've been saying that for ages. 1918-now feels like 1514 to 1648. With the same four factions. 1. The traditionalists - Catholic Church/Classical Economists 2. The reformers - Lutherans/ Keynesians 3. The revolutionaries - Calvinists/ Marxists 4. The Counter Revolutionaries - Counter Reformation/Neo-Liberals And we're at the 30 Years War phase.

[@sararichardson737]

Very well put

[@vidnosh7406]

Economy is all science. Mathematics and statistics. No magic involved. You just believe in the invisible hand and the markets will solve everything. No rocket sciense.

[@vidnosh7406]

Economy is all science. Mathematics and statistics. No magic involved. You just believe in the invisible hand and the markets will solve everything. No rocket science.

[@Rudee3]

Can you just make Gary your economics correspondent?

[@ohnoitisnt]

I think a youtubers party has legitimate credibility

[@Muzikman127]

@@ohnoitisnt??

[@davelab6]

​@@Muzikman127 They mean a political party where all the key people are picked from the quality of their KZbin channels - KZbin sortition, lol

[@nickhadziannis8451]

@@davelab6 dont we have that ATM, we elect out spoksmen with likes, becuse their is no other meaningful form of domocratic feedback to promote views we like and take on views we dont....

[@Muzikman127]

@@davelab6 that is an absolutely mental idea haha

[@ssbrew]

Forever enamoured by Gary's intelligence, insight and honesty. Whether he believes himself moral or not, he is standing up for ordinary people in spaces like elite universities and the media. For me, that makes him practically a paragon of virtue in our bankrupt society.

[@MrHammerkop]

Perhaps he is a Buddha or a Messiah come to save us.

[@Sonship1000]

He offers zero solutions though..

[@matthewmckenna3109]

He combines radical practical insight into the way money/power is malfunctioning, with a rare instinct for healing and building bridges rather than merely reacting with anger. He has self-awareness. This is the kind of wisdom that we desperately need now. It puts the current shower of politicians and commentators to shame.

[@AB-zl4nh]

We need a Fair (PR) Voting system, Right To Vote at 16, Automatic Voter Registration & Compulsory Voting. You need a fair political system that affords you the maximum chance to give Left & Centre-Left political power. Words & protest are not enough.

[@jasonthomas1023]

American fan of Novara here. I've been watching your new updates and interviews since the Fall of last year. This has got to be the most riveting interview I've seen in a long, long time. Not just on Novara, but on any YT channel. Keep up the good work!

[@jnewsham1989]

Worth having a look at their previous interview with Gary as well, and his youtube channel

[@edocsane3777]

@@jnewsham1989 Going through absolutely everything on his channel, Op put it succinctly riveting indeed!! feels like we have someone on our side.

[@stephenkelly7397]

What's BELOW KEEP SCOLLING DOEWN

[@user-fl8ly7vx2n]

Moneterism is the problem. It moves money from the bottom to the top.. The logical conclusion of this is the revolution Marx foresaw.

[@valeriobertoncello1809]

You can tell he doesn't know things because he's read them, he knows because he's seen and touched them with his hands. Such a powerful speaker and a captivating storyteller as well!

[@jolima]

But can you tell for sure, he’s not more of a great story teller then actually figured economics out more then most in the field? Honest question

[@adrianwilkins1161]

@@jolima I think his answer to that would be that he makes money year on year betting on his predictions - you can either believe that's just a lucky coincidence, or by design. Contrast his story to that of the right-wing - that prosperity for the rich translates into prosperity for all - and see which you find more credible.

[@klauskinski5969]

yeah maybe it would help if he, the interviewer and some other ppl would actually pick up books and read them. this discussion was "das kapital" for 1graders. and yet, ppl celebrate it as great insight.

[@lfc6times]

@@jolima Open your eyes. Have a look around. Things are getting a lot worse, The middle class is disappearing.. For most of them their children's prospects are not looking great either. The amount of poor people is increasing substantially. Affordable Housing is almost as none existent. Public services are collapsing. All this is happening while government debt is spiralling out of control. Where's the money gone.? The answer is the rich and the Billionaires are sucking up the world's money supply and keeping it to themselves.

[@AlmostYearly]

A great storyteller doesn't use fackin' instead of commas. I know, I know, it's his background, yadda yadda, but I did get tired of it and great storytellers don't get you tired.

[@positivepolitics1]

I worked as trader in late 90s/early 00s as very young man. My wife is NHS consultant and, 25 years of study and service, only now earns annually what I earned then! Disgusting and terrifying

[@Douglas-hw8is]

This is a manifestation of central-banking - dishonest money gives rise to a dishonest system. Thank God, as I type, Trump and the White-Hat Military are dealing with the problem.

[@yamyite]

Bit of both there, you city boys took the piss and the days of consultants living on the golf course are over and I’m sure you’re aware via your wife unless you do your private work on weekends and never see your children then you’re not gonna earn the mega bucks

[@Coneman3]

Trader is a parasitic job.

[@Coneman3]

You expect sympathy? What a joke! Try a nurses salary!

[@positivepolitics1]

@@Coneman3absolutely no sympathy requested. Just pointing out the tragedy of this reality. Totally solidarity to you and all nurses

[@daveuk1324]

For the forgotten and ignored and undervalued working class of Britain, Gary is a superhero and we need him to succeed ❤❤❤❤

[@jpzammo]

I love the simplicity of Gary's message and his ambition. Change needs to happen, keep fighting, I'm with you!

[@ohwhatworld5851]

Change will only happen when we can all get behind an idea. Gary and all of these supposedly intelligent people do nothing except outline what the issue is. We need tangible step by step solutions to change society and how things work. Gary has not provided anything like that.

[@inp1509]

Thats why he's popular because people dont understand economics and buy into his horse shit

[@MikeStillUK]

All problems. No solutions. We all know what the problem is. What is his proposed solution? He doesn’t seem to offer one.

[@jpzammo]

​@@MikeStillUK He talks about better forms of taxation to address the wealth inequalities

[@MikeStillUK]

@@jpzammo more details on how exactly these taxes would work and how they would solve the problem would be more useful than repeating and repeating 1) how much money he's made trading and 2) how bad financial inequality is (we know).

[@ianpatton632]

Gary Stephenson taking the world by storm.👍Good man!!

[@sararichardson737]

I’d love to watch all of this but it’s depressing and making me anxious and angry. I know what Gary is saying (one can feel,it in one’s waters ). Scary shit.

[@ohwhatworld5851]

Is he?..... Change will only happen when we can all get behind an idea. Gary and all of these supposedly intelligent people do nothing except outline what the issue is. We need tangible step by step solutions to change society and how things work. Gary has not provided anything like that.

[@sararichardson737]

@@ohwhatworld5851 I have to agree: theory is one thing practice another. It would seem that political parties are loathe to implement ideas that could rock the status quo as their paymasters, the large corporations, would not be best pleased.

[@TheBurdenOfHope]

Gary is quickly becoming a beacon of hope. I wish politicians cared even 1% of what Gary does about normal, every day people.

[@AB-zl4nh]

We need a Fair (PR) Voting system, Right To Vote at 16, Automatic Voter Registration & Compulsory Voting. You need a fair political system that affords you the maximum chance to give Left & Centre-Left political power. Words & protest are not enough.

[@tarquin161234]

@@AB-zl4nh I dont agree with compulsory voting. I think a lot of people that vote just shouldn't vote because they are uninformed. They are part of the problem.

[@lijoco2365]

Gary is what we need, I just worry that not enough people are listening.. his book is phenomenal.

[@davidwright8432]

Aaron - could you get Gary and Yanis Varoufakis on at the same time? What a conversation that would be!

[@teachweb69]

Yes pls

[@maddang1797]

And Prof Danny Blanchflower

[@manniking233]

That would break Novara to pieces. The algorithm couldn't handle that many facts at the same time. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@Alloballo123]

Very true. These two need to be together.

[@jtlopez4762]

That would be so fun! Yes, please ⭐️

[@r_cd16]

I genuinely think Gary has the most clarifying explanations of any economist I have watched. There are several economic phenomena that I understood in a fuzzy way that he has made crystal clear. I wish everyone could see this video, and his last Novara interview.

[@riveranalyse]

I wish everyone could see ANY of his interviews. I love Novara but he's great on all platforms/channels I've seen him speak on.

[@keepcreationprocess]

He is the most honest British person. AND the most intelligent person with dignity unlike YOU ALL liars....

[@paddycoleman1472]

This is a fascinating interview right up to the point where it descends in to the Right vs. Left abyss. As I think Gary tried to say several times, one of the problems is political factionalism and expecting either wing to make the economic situation materially better. The country has been governed by Conservative and Labour for decades and both have overseen the worsening of wealth inequality. The reality is that none (precious few) of our political class irrespective of their political bias have a clue about what is happening and how to start fixing things.

[@kennethmarshall306]

Labour has always accepted the capitalist economic orthodoxy

[@markwildphotography]

Gary’s picking up momentum ✊🏻 What a legend, it’s time for change people 🫶

[@monihaque2929]

Gary is so honest. Top guy

[@AB-zl4nh]

We need a Fair (PR) Voting system, Right To Vote at 16, Automatic Voter Registration & Compulsory Voting. You need a fair political system that affords you the maximum chance to give Left & Centre-Left political power. Words & protest are not enough.

[@DG_musician]

Politicians know that they can't bamboozle someone like Gary. He's intelligent, articulate, knowledgeable, truthful and forceful. All the things that mainstream politicians aren't.

[@Tayloraurrekoetxea]

Politicians like Corbyn have said al the same things Gary is saying yet people didn’t listen. Suddenly, people are acting like what Gary is saying is revolutionary, never before heard information? Absolutely wild

[@stanners1714]

⁠@@Tayloraurrekoetxea I think it’s got a lot to do with the presentation. Maybe this doesn’t apply to viewers of Novara but I think a lot of people will gravitate to some like Gary precisely because he’s not a politician.

[@Tayloraurrekoetxea]

@@stanners1714 that’s a fair point, I do agree with your take but it shows a fundamental lack of critical thinking in people that think like this. You can’t paint all politicians with the same brush and be apathetic bc then of course things are gonna go badly. Listen to the people speaking for your rights and watch their voting record. It’s frustrating when people act like what Gary is saying is some mind blowing revelation when the left have been saying this forever.

[@den264]

A bit like George Galloway !

[@2msvalkyrie529]

Yeah , he probably thinks Venezuela should be our economic role model....?

[@bombers7878]

Amazing interview. Gary's the only other person I've heard say the future is South Africa or something resembling many South American countries. No civil war or anything that exciting as a libidinal release. Growing up in South Africa for a few years, I can confirm that the 'normality' of extreme inequality, apartheid states, class tensions getting fully absorbed into racial and regional tensions.....is just that, normal. Life ticks along. I'm in Australia now and while the situation isn't as bad as the UK, the direction is exactly the same. A housing crisis, a mental health crisis, amid booming luxury and growing reactionary politics with no end in sight. If Gary and Novara develop a method to successfully blow up the message I'll be the first to spread it here.

[@joanneburford6364]

I assume you're in Melbourne due to the Essendon reference. It isn't as bad here as the UK and we should avoid a recession but that doesn't mean a lot of people aren't suffering. You made the right choice.

[@golfbulldog]

If you have only heard people saying that the future of the West is something akin to South Africa, you have been spending too much time on Novara media and mainstream media. Right wing youtube channels realised this years ago.

[@zcake68]

What a breath of fresh air. I hope gary decides to get into politics, we need people like him desperately.

[@andrewmarsden8742]

The people shouldn't be frightened of governments , governments should be frightened of the people .

[@ginge330]

We need to unite together and get organised to be able to resist properly!!! We need a platform where like minded people can come together, share ideas and form a movement! A world wide of the people movement taking every government by storm! The snow ball is rolling and gathering speed as more people wake up to government lies. We just need the next step, that platform that thing which brings us together as a force to be reckoned with. A unity that will scare all governments worldwide! Any ideas

[@ISureDont]

@@ginge330that would be it. That would be what gets enough people together to get past the tipping point of 3.5. Once 3.5% of a population is united on a single goal it becomes inevitable. The rest just flip

[@bilgan509]

@@ginge330 💯

[@mcgoombs]

They are, that’s why they do everything they do, out of fear. The more you have to lose the more fearful you become.

[@treyquattro]

unfortunately you then get the American situation where politics becomes extremely polarized and eventuates in fascism because the politicians are fearful of themselves and their families being murdered by armed citizens. If the system worked as it's supposed to there would be no fear and no need for fear in either the government or the populace. Of course you have to balance that idealism against the reality of Lord Acton's aphorism.

[@tonychorley4936]

Maybe Netflix could do a piece on Gary so his wisdom could challenge worldwide economic theories.

[@kamilm5614]

If only

[@markl5990]

This is the first time I hard heard of Gary and I am incredibly impressed! Combination of education, intelligence, real world experience and genuine passion.

[@jl8942]

The honesty, values, principles, priorities, and integrity of Gary are admirable. We need governments across the world to start prioritizing people and the planet over profits in policies, regulations, and law.

[@robertwinslade3104]

Doing my best to promote The Trading Game in my bookshop. This book will be huge

[@moore_news]

Something on YT that involves Gary Stevenson becomes available Me: Click!

[@kheir.mousai4764]

This was the most engaging interview I have seen for a long time. Almost moving, even. Gary is phenomenal!

[@user-le7xs5mq4y]

INCREDIBLE , spot on!!! You have an idea drowning in truth! You just need to package it and sell it to the country. Let me know if I can help. I'm a old nobody but a great salesman that would love the UK to survive, and all its people to do better.

[@jayherring3227]

Move over Hunt.............Gary "He's always fucking right" Stevenson for Chancellor of the Exchequer. Put this guy in charge of 11 Downing Street asap

[@hayojiWC1]

Always fucking right!!😂

[@MyNameIsINTERSTITIAL]

That won't happen ..... all politicoes know the game, which is how they were appointed in first place.

[@connieburchell6156]

If only , that would be great

[@BRM101]

The game is rigged for a reason, there is only one solution at this point I think and il leave that to your imagination 🪓

[@RevengeTradingGroup]

To the handsome Dutch man I met outside the supermarket (you mentioned you love Gary so probably watching🤞)… meet me there tonight? After this finishes? I’ll be waiting with some Limoncello.

[@pgl0897]

Did he come?? We need an update!!

[@oohforf6375]

This is hilarious!

[@NimpanZ]

Just Gary casually uniting people. Best wingman ever 😂👍

[@garyseconomics]

Here for this

[@dangriff12]

😂​@@garyseconomics

[@thebuttonsblog]

A lovely man with real lived experience, and a powerful message. Thanks for getting him back.

[@andrewmacdonald1103]

Look at the two lower stages of Maslow's hierarchy. Most people are hovering here. A lot of us will never get beyond level three. How can we expect to have a happy society?

[@kuramobay2445]

What he's describing is a return to feudalism. Technofeudalism. Unless people say no.

[@piers_bellman]

at least feudalism had common land and motivations besides just profit

[@valeriobertoncello1809]

1:35:12 "Are you willing to put your selfishness aside enough, to protect your selfish interest?" such a powerful quote

[@kennethmarshall306]

Paraphrasing Karl Marx

[@user-fz7zt6cw6f]

Our factories have been sent abroad.The shoe and clothing industry, steel components,semi conductors. Britain used to produce something, now it's just financial services.

[@billmartins5545]

Same with many Western countries to some extent. I am a sewist. British people don't want to pay skilled manual labourers a living wage, not even minimum wage. Britons want to pay £10 for a t shirt, £25 for jeans. They'd rather buy 4 pairs of jeans with £100 than one pair made in the UK. This applies to everything you can buy in shops, it's almost all made in Asia (often by kids/slaves).

[@ajsctech8249]

Absolutely amazing interview. If there was an Oscar award for KZbin interviews this one would smash it.

[@HSwanny]

Being the clever poor kid at school really resonated. Massive respect for using it to drive competitiveness and do well in life... For me, I was bullied and it just made resent rich white folk. Still feel inferior every time I walk into a posh restaurant even though I've done well professionally and financially...imposter syndrome is difficult to shift 🤷🏾‍♂️. respect Gary for everything you're trying to do and look after yourself and your mental health - can see you're carrying the cross for us but that can get heavy over time.

[@xxXTheGamingPROHDXx]

He made a ton of money out of the trading game Does he ever wonder where that came from? May explain his apparent malaise with the way things are

[@alancollinson8958]

Gary, you are a legend. We need you right now

[@PublicEnema]

Apart from Gary swearing like a sailor one of the most informative interviews I seen in a while, top guy.

[@blahblahbbllaahh]

It actually makes him come off as sincere.

[@oliver556]

Does it matter?

[@miketims2870]

Gary! Your voice and your message and perspective are saving my sanity. Thank you for cutting through with this clarity and honesty. I’ve been on a similar journey from growing up in the care system to making the worlds investment banks and central banks my clients and then losing my sanity. I’ve given up hoping on Labour. Keep going - I’m in. Keep making sense and seeking the power to change all this. Mike.

[@billykotsos4642]

Criminal that we have to wait 3 days for this… Gary knows what he is talking about…

[@mcgoombs]

Me, reading this 3 days later 😂

[@Gph0367]

Keep up the amazing work Novara and Gary Stevenson.

[@thesoftanchors]

I've watched this 3-4 times today - best video ever. Thanks Gary and Aaron, naming these things gives me hope.

[@lew7676]

Absolutely get this, and have got off the consumerism bandwagon as a start….but Gary needs to stop saying that he has made a ton of money, over and over again. We get that, his story, the economy etc, now we need to know what we can all do to stop the inequality getting worse.

[@72rmboyd]

It sounds like you are describing economic Fascism. "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism: ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power.' 32nd US President Franklin D Roosevelt

[@armorclasshero2103]

That's what capitalism is. Even Adam Smith warned against it.

[@pgl0897]

This is (in moments) the most animated and passionate I have seen Gary being, and I am absolutely here for it.

[@GodfreyMann]

Limit the number of houses one person can own; prevent companies owning residential properties; homes should be for Britons not overseas investors; Public land must be used for public use not sold for private profit.

[@fineweather4569]

That would assume there is a caring govt. doesn’t exist. The 1% have always controlled the 99% - we’ve just had varying levels of inequality throughout history. The future is grim.

[@user-vj4hs3li8d]

how about a government that builds social housing, rather than selling it off?

[@GodfreyMann]

@@fineweather4569 no, it assumes proportional representation combined with an awareness among the electorate about root causes, such that they vote for govts that will pass appropriate legislation. A caring govt has nothing to do with the solution.

[@GodfreyMann]

@@user-vj4hs3li8d that’s item 4 on my list, but on its own is insufficient to reverse the aspect of inequality driven through property. The point is that property is both a scarce and essential commodity which means limits must be placed on buyers in order to exclude “utility monsters” from gobbling everything up.

[@froufou100]

what a pleasure to listen to Gary saying it how it is without long fluffy complicated words xx

[@billykotsos4642]

Gary KNOWS what he is talking about

[@jcooper2373]

"If you're not fucking betting on it, don't fucking talk to me about it." This guy is an absolute hero. What an interview. 10/10

[@juleslovesshoes]

Was driving to work (am a nurse) and listened to most of this, had a visceral reaction to the 400k bonus, nearly cried and then 45 mins in had to switch off as felt utterly depressed at the thought of things never getting better 😢. Will pick it up again later. Please let there be a possible solution provided!

[@daveuk1324]

Agree. My wife is a nurse too. 40 years NHS. We need solutions and soon! ❤❤❤

[@Valkyrie9000]

I like this idea that we basically split our economy in two during COVID (and for the past two decades). That describes things perfectly in the UK and US and why there's a massive disconnect in perceptions, and I hardly see anyone talking from this perspective.

[@mharley3791]

The data is Pretty clear in the United States that economy is doing well for most people. People at the bottom of the income distribution wages have increased significantly faster than those at the top. In the US there’s a lot of unhappiness With inflation but that has been coming down. The the US economy and the British economy are very very different

[@chrisbuggy4849]

​@@mharley3791 cheers for this. Can you advise which data set you use. Thanks.

[@johniepatterson3746]

Covid was about total control 😢

[@Silks-]

I don't think Gary truly believes that things can get better at this point for ordinary people. I appreciate his tact to maintain some hope for them, because without that the bleakness of our predicament could be unbearable, and at the same time he's planting the seed to be prepared for what's to come in the near future. I have the same struggle when trying to inform people about the situation of both the economy and climate related atrocities to come.

[@user-bk5xo1gj7k]

well, yeah... think about it, if the real problem at the root of it is inequality, then things around the world will only get worse. just look at the democratic system for example. to run the campaigns, you need a lot of money. that either has to come out of your pocket, or, you need donors. if you go donors route, you owe them. it is a 'donation', but when its their interest or anyone else, you kinda have to pick them. if it comes out your own pocket, it means you are minted. thats basically an investment you made to get into power, it better pay off! so in the end, we end up in a system where the richest have the power. no govt gonna bite the hand that feeds it. so in the end, its a design to keep the rich, rich. nothing gets resolved. rich has always been in power through the history. however, atleast their crumbs were enough to feed the poor in most cases. when it wasnt, there were revolutions. we are now approaching the point where rich are sucking up the crumbs as well or the crumbs are so little that they dont feed families anymore. following this trajectory there will be an uprising eventually unless something changes. its a bleak outlook... dont really wanna think about it ... but it is what it is... i wish and hope im wrong.

[@thomasrae7551]

So true. People will not just accept extreme poverty. Eventually they will rise up and the streets will be filled with the dead, rich or poor. Unless people listen and change is made this is going to happen. Share this with everyone to try and make a difference. Please. I want my son to live a better life, not a worse one.

[@andrewwatts2443]

@@user-bk5xo1gj7k they are not donations. Rich people use their money to always get a return on their investment. donations are no different. Give to charity but claim a tax break. Give a political donation but want a change to policy/legislation/law or Government contract.

[@curbscrape8343]

People need to realise that immigration has been increased ON PURPOSE for this exact reason. So they be blamed. I feel for them - they think that they're coming for opportunities but they and thier children are pawns for hate.

[@jamesgravil9162]

@@user-bk5xo1gj7k We are approaching a point where the ruling class doesn't even need a working class anymore, thanks to advances in A.I. and robotics which will make us all redundant. Read "Humans Need Not Apply." It's frightening.

[@deriisaac702]

Don’t stop bro. You’re helping wake up the masses and that’s Gods work. You got a seat at the table of the revolutionary government, that’s certain. We got work to do. Thank you both 🙏

[@2msvalkyrie529]

You can put your Che Guevara t -shirt back in the wardrobe mate .! You won't be needing it anytime soon.....

[@deriisaac702]

@@2msvalkyrie529 haha great comment. Probably about another 6 generations yet … & that’s if it even happens… Things would have to get a lot worse and the status quo is pretty clever at cranking the vice two turns then half a turn back, gradualism aye

[@colinsneller6274]

Gary is a prophet for our times. His modesty and lack of vanity is so impressive and there is almost something ascetic about him, like a buddhist monk. All power to him!

[@JackJohnson-lp9jr]

I love the fact that Gary calls our the economics that's taught in our universities. It's brainwashing and very west centric and almost forces us to adopt certain behaviours that don't value balance or equality in ANY societies.

[@yannihrysicos7863]

Great show. Would love to see a conversation between Gary and Yanis Varoufakis.

[@georgeK03]

Yees was thinking the same thing

[@udreamawake]

Yes make that happen

[@savingsavioursinvestments]

When you grow up poor, it pains you. Gary didn't just go through physical hunger, but he felt hunger for something else in life. He obviously is bright and wanted a share of the pie the others enjoy, he grabbed it! ❤ Good for him!

[@zahiddar3675]

Some parts of this made me cry. What kind of world have we created post 1980? Thank you Gary Stevenson for this campaign and for illustrating so clearly what is wrong and how we can fix it. Why is he not an adviser to the Labour Party? If only they actually cared he would be.

[@frederickgolding1913]

Party politics/politicians is not his market (too dumb). You and I are..

[@2msvalkyrie529]

Socialist Workers Party is probably the ideal home for Gary ? It's the ideal echo chamber for deluded bedsit revolutionaries .

[@josephcarrdus3132]

My novara payment is one of the only things I see going out of my bank account that I don't resent. Keep it going guys!

[@ferret8789]

This will be a good watch. Gary speaks a lot of sense👍

[@user-jc3ue5eo8g]

Great work Gary. An old boy once said to me ‘ We can divide society in to two camps; Givers and Takers ‘ It is our moral obligation to decide which camp we operate in.

[@Astillion]

This was an amazing conversation. Gary's story is fascinating, and his analysis is spot on I think. I'm not nearly as successful as he is, but I'm also from a working class background and have been able to achieve some wealth. I am rich enough to no longer need to work for a living. And I've learned some of the same lessons that he has. I've seen how society doesn't do much to help the poor, apart from the bare minimum. And I've seen how governments will spend billions or trillions to save the economy or the stock market, but not ordinary people. I've realized that a job is no guarantee of stability, and I've lost many jobs in my life. But assets are protected, because rich people have those, and governments can't afford a crash. So I've put my money into assets. Realestate, stocks and bonds. Many people have struggled in the last couple of years, but I'm doing great. I think Gary is absolutely right, that we have to combat inequality. Otherwise we're in for a very bleak future.

[@cliffy7641]

Brilliant, incisive, thought provoking and only if ! . Gary thank you for bringing me along on your journey of wealth equality for the masses. This has been going on for to long and a change is gonna come. One thing that I had never understood was the government's telling the working class we cannot increase wages because it will fuel inflation but we can give the rich millions more and it will jot make a difference ? Gary I salute you , keep fighting the fight.

[@dragon2695]

Great young man! This society has hope with young people like you two!

[@ignatiushazzard]

Love this dude. I sit through hours of economics lectures to understand concepts he's able to break down clearly in a few phrases.

[@PEPG2024]

Have followed Gary for a couple of years. His super intelligent clarity and moral compass have always been impressive, but this interview is showing his incredible vulnerability in a world of vultures. I so hope the good guys win for a change, but not sure it will be in my lifetime.

[@bobhawxwell1606]

I can honestly say Gary has kept me sane for months now .

[@manniking233]

He's the only one whose explanation of everything going wrong makes total sense without any chance of a rebuttal calling him a Marxist or some other buzzword. Because it uses the exact same language these economist types use to lie to us all the time, except he exposes the real logic that allows the rich to rinse everyone else ruthlessly. I'm religious, which helps, but some logic needs to exist to help keep me sane and Gary provided that perfectly. I'm grateful that this platform exists for us to meet people like him. He's needed. This is no longer about socialism bs capitalism. The rich want to end us and we need to stop them from doing further damage. This is a cruel system that is destroying the humanity in all of us and I need it to just stop!

[@MattGarnham1]

Sane and slightly depressed!

[@conniekaler]

I agree things are getting worse but I don't think demanding change is enough - "they" don't want to change - they simply do not care. We are gonna have to be the change. It's time now to focus on the solutions and "create that alternative".

[@HairSuitGentleman]

Incredibly powerful interview. You should get Gary to speak with Mark Blyth - another brilliant economist focused on inequality from a working class background.

[@naheemhaneef123]

Gary Stevenson is the ‘lost’ moral compass of uk… long live Gary!

[@ThecovertCustomer]

I’ve not long come across Gary and I’ve been blown away. Yes I thought about these things before but he explains them in a way that makes sense to the average person with little to no understanding of economics. Ive started sharing his content out as more people need to hear him. He’s certainly very relatable as he is not from a wealthy background, doesn’t speak with a plummy accent and isn’t pretentious in the slightest in his delivery. Nor does he talk down to his audience, but breaks it down in a way that can be understood.

[@2msvalkyrie529]

There was virtually Zero wealth inequality in the former DDR. State provided homes and jobs for everyone . Just what Gary wishes for . Remind us how that panned out. ?

[@kenndo9906]

Gary's words will shock the public. love his videos. total eye opener.

[@kenndo9906]

Gary put Aron right about labour.... labour is as dodgy as the tories. nothing will change. Aaron's chat on labour.reminded me of Sam Coates talking to Galloway.wive lost faith in laour

[@richardparker1338]

No. They won't. The public will not watch. They are focused on scraping money together, foraging for food, worried about debts, and do not come to KZbin to find out why, they come to watch drivel in order to temporarily escape the shitty lives they live. OK, you've watched the video. What next? Maybe along the lines, "It's the inequality" Then a few seconds later. "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" Finally, you realise your repayments are due, and you wonder if can you squeeze out a bit more debt on the card to pay the heating. You sink back as you realise there is FA you can do. "what can you do? what can you do? Nuffin. That's what you can and will do. Along with the other 65 million.

[@goych]

As in fuck? Or the other words?

[@philipmulville8218]

I was hooked from the moment Gary started speaking. Game changing interview.

[@WilliamAhlert]

A genuinely amazing point. Let's build that conensus by having those conversations with people close to us!

[@perlefisker]

Problem lies with the middle class. Nothing will change for the better without it - and it is the biggest obstacle to oppose the establishment...because it aspires to belong there.

[@briskyoungploughboy]

So true. No political representation for the working or middle classes in present politics. Labour works for the professional managerial elite and Tories work for the billionaires. if only the small-to-medium business owners could see their interest lies with working people having money in their pocket to spend. Sadly many of them just vote Tory for reasons of historical allegiances forged decades ago that no longer apply.

[@davidarchibald50]

Few people and virtually no politicians could tell you that what we think of as money hardly exists. What functions as money is almost all debt, it bears interest and it is created in the process of simply putting your "money" in the bank (the money was in fact debt...but you have to understand banking to get it). The interest is balanced by growth, thus as long as growth exceeds the interest burden an economy can function. After a while the interest burden in an economy becomes overwhelming and then the financial system collapses...this is the madness of growth capitalism.

[@diogenes1815]

For a guy who’s good at Maths, Gary is surprisingly good at English. His narration is compelling, his writing is nuanced and the story is gripping, best audiobook I’ve heard in a long time!

[@ononymous3272]

Agreed finished it in 2 days. Such a brilliant write. Just exudes intelligence

[@kaank2]

Thank you for inviting such great economists to the talk. Their insights were truly valuable and informative.

[@GeriStorm]

If both sides of the house in government can’t even see they are complicit in a genocide they are not going to see the poor in this country! We need a new system of voting and we need a new party to stand for the people all people equally!

[@toonarmy3870]

You think the ruling class care about you?

[@SeattleCoorain]

In his book "Politics on the Edge" Rory Stewart said the English Parliament was begun by the aristocracy as a counterweight to the power of the King. Your English Parliament is not structured to server the broad inhabitants of England, so it doesn't. "Politics on the Edge" confirm that the elites run the enterprise for themselves ... full stop. Our American Congress was supposed to be different: designed for virtuous nobles-oblige representation of and attendance to, common citizens , but the rise of political parties in the early 1800's negated it's intended design and our own elites have ruled since. The problem of any organizations in human society, as Mancur Olson documented (The Logic of Collective Action), is scale: small scale - orgs address the entire groups interests, while large scaled orgs are always captured by a minority focused on self interest. Gary Stevenson should consider this scale issue. Many political scientists have worked on Prof. Olson's scale issue, to my knowledge none have been successful. The small scale of early human hunter/gatherer tribes, rescued our species from oblivion. We could help each other at an appropriate scale, each individual in the tribe contributing and benefiting. Along came agricultural based civilization 15k years ago and our human ancestors created a scale we can not deal with constructively. The elites in a civilization dominate, stealing the fruits of cooperation from the majority, resulting in inequality, wars for personal conquest, slavery in every imaginable form. Hunter/Gather tribes suffered none of this. Their leaders were chosen by the group and not inherited, the strongest hunters still depended some days on the average but lucky hunters for the group's food supply due to random chance. Our difficult task today in the present, is to align the benefits of civilization's specialized skills and large workforce with the group coherence and fairness of hunter/gatherer tribal society. I'm working on some theories, doing my best to "plod quietly on".

[@GeriStorm]

@@SeattleCoorain when you work it out let us all know! 🤔🤞

[@isaacsworld2523]

Great talk! When I studied Economics module, one thing I realised is that Economists don’t have a clue on economy. It just doesn’t make any sense.

[@themsmloveswar3985]

It is designed to hide the truth about money. Marketing courses hide the truth about happiness.

[@morpheus9137]

Its high school level math masterbation and elite propaganda. The removal of the real world, history, power makes it useless.

[@Fullerg10]

What's missing is the societal emphasis on "The Common Good " - it's the conceptual underpinning of the Progressivism that produced the effective societal thinking that produced the NIH in the UK , Social Security in the US and the quality low cost educational opportunities we had 40-50 years ago in the US and The UK .

[@benjohnson6251]

Was considering skipping this as you'd interviewed Gary before but you brought a lot of new stuff in and it was a great convo. Particularly enjoyed the bit about building coalitions and comparing the left vs right response

[@megm.c4026]

Love Gary! Say it loud Gary!!

[@myresponsesarelimited7895]

Can't decide if it was better than the first interview, or not, definitely another excellent interview.

[@jondavid8830]

I’m probably regarded by many on here as a “Right Winger”- whatever that means. I find Jordan Peterson fascinating, I like Kathleen Stock, and could never vote for Keir Starmer, BUT I absolutely love this guy. The great thing about Aaron Bastani is that he listens to all sides, and tries to avoid generalisations (eg “Left Good -Right Bad) Well done Novara for a channel that intelligent ethical people of all political persuasions can engage with. 👏👏👏👏

[@stevegeal]

Thank you guys, for all you do to keep us informed. I can feel political stirrings in the works; and how we need it!

[@garyhowtobluetoothjblheadp3583]

Gazza is deffo making the rounds - building the momentum with a powerful message - good on him! 💥🌟⭐

[@tonychorley4936]

I always watch when the interviews when Gary speaks. He explains the situation so clearly that even a politician could understand him, I guess they are covering their ears and singing la, la, la. It seems they are determined not to ask themselves where the money went and the effect this would have.

[@Abraham_Tsfaye]

When I was in UK. I saw empty boarded up streets under a constant grey sky, litter everywhere. Homeless people sleeping in doorways. A women with cat whiskers makeup casually walking into Tesco with her pajamas. Opioid addicts out of their mind and women so drunk they urinated on the streets. It's a sad declined country.

[@user-kx3fq1zo6f]

Where did you copy and paste that comment from?

[@sharongriffin3387]

I've followed Gary since covid and enjoying my signed copy of his book as we speak. So good to see him getting wider coverage. Great interview 👍.

[@oldstatueface6317]

I've seen a few interviews with Gary on this book tour. Either Aaron is just a great interviewer or he saved his best for Novara (likely a bit of both?). Already pre-ordered the book a few weeks ago, even more looking forward to reading it after watching this.

[@garyseconomics]

Always save my best for Novara

[@babymonalisa]

My thoughts exactly!

[@seanc411]

It’s crazy how Gary has such a depressing message but describing the conditions and reasons so clearly can give some hope.

[@junaidqazi1800]

Slavery never ended it evolved into capitalism

[@jonathanbailey1597]

Capitalism involved slavery.

[@AmericanNope]

But you have holiday time, paternity and maternity time and you can quit your job. Debt slavery is an interesting thing as it tries its hardest to make you believe its shackles and chains don’t exist but no matter what it does it can’t hide its true nature. Greed and exploitation.

[@brianadlich4406]

They're all related. Feudalism evolved to Mercantilism (the slavery period you're thinking of) to capitalism

[@jonathanbailey1597]

@@brianadlich4406 Related yes. Identical, no.

[@easytoassemble54321]

You mean feudalism never ended.

[@MerabKechkhoshvili]

I mean the first interview was such a blast that the second one was only a matter of time. I'm happy it didn't take long. Great interview again!

[@MariusAbalaru]

Man… this is one of the best youtube content I’ve ever watched!

[@RadiantStar8997]

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you Gary.

[@dickjohnson8578]

Every single problem outlined in this video is going on here in America too. In a lot of ways it’s actually worse for us because we don’t even have universal healthcare or education. All of the economic problems facing normal people aren’t even being addressed by our politicians. They just throw out immigration and culture war issues, and use them as a smoke screen to distract everyone. It’s truly disheartening.

[@michaeldyas769]

Subscribed to Gary after this passion filled interview, very impressed with his humanism

[@MikeStillUK]

The inequality began to really accelerate in 1971 when we came off the gold standard. Fiat money is the root cause.

[@aquddus1907]

What a brilliant podcast and a phenomenal guest speaker. I'm from the east end and it all resonates with me.