Is Card Grading a Scam? - SGC Vintage Card Reveal (6 Mantles!!!)

[@Buchanan-p6f]

I spent a career in real estate appraisal where the object was to determine what the "fair market value" of a piece of real estate was. People in this profession have to actually pass a series of tests which licenses them to demonstrate that they understand the principles of valuation in an effort to prove what a piece of real estate would sell for to a "willing buyer". Card graders have no universally accepted test that they have to pass, and as a result, two different graders can assign radically different grades to a card depending upon their knowledge, experience, emotions and what they ate for breakfast on that day. In short, it is still the wild wild west out there where money is created and uncreated at the whim of someone who might be completely unqualified for the task of assigning a grade and hence the value of the collectible in question.

[@ilovehouse888]

Well said. The graders definitely do not seem to understand how hard it is to find vintage cards in good shape either. They had many print defects and other issues that made it hard to even find a decently centered card and yet they grade them as if they should be modern cards. It's pretty messed up. Thanks for your comment.

[@pauliepacks]

Great video! Love the cards. Eye appeal is fantastic despite the grades. With what everyone now knows about grading, we shouldn’t still be this far apart (submitters expectations vs grader’s subjectivity). Some companies are trying to offer more explanations behind their grades, which is what we need. but until the practice becomes universal, a lot of people will not trust the big Co’s (myself included).

[@ilovehouse888]

Thank you for your comment and for watching. :)

[@johnwayne9828]

Submit, get bad grade, resubmit, rinse, repeat, pay grader everytime.....yes, grading is a scam.

[@anthonyg.4761]

But it does yield results more than just trying to sell them raw

[@johnwayne9828]

@@anthonyg.4761 sure.....after resubbing the same card 5 times and helping completely invalidate the population report. Whered all the collectors go? The flipper mindset is killing this hobby.

[@anthonyg.4761]

@@johnwayne9828 Yep! I quit collecting about 42 years ago, still have my cards from the 70’s and early 80’s but I lost interest in the hobby when it became saturated with card makers then I lost interest in sports when our athletes became greedy, entitled, unpatriotic prima donnas

[@DonaldLangiano]

To

[@millypoo7713]

Says the person that sends in mid-grade cards expecting 8's, 9's, and 10's LOL 😆

[@johammond2020]

Beautiful cards man .. most of them centered very nice!

[@ilovehouse888]

Thank you and thanks for checking out the video.

[@vintagepsaandmore473]

Man those cards look better than the grades…..

[@Franco1803]

Amazing cards! Those sixes were strong. These companies are using magnification and blue lights looking for things the naked eye can’t see.

[@notsure6183]

If the naked eye can't see it, why should it be of concern to the collector? Humans collect cards, not machines. To me it's just another way to make infinite grades and water down old numbers and create new ones, hence, keep people trying to achieve grades and constantly raising the bar and moving the goal posts.

[@Mountainrock70]

@@notsure6183 exactly. If a card looks pleasing to my eyes it’s good to me.

[@golfmaniac007]

Nice cards! All those centered cards look gorgeous

[@ilovehouse888]

Thank you 🙂

[@sfisportscards8323]

Awesome cards, love the selections. I've sent in to SGC about a dozen times or so, maybe have gotten Authentics 3x, which is fine. I don't sell so I've gotten passed being upset over getting an A if it still looks good. SGC has given me 8.5s on 60s and 70s cards but also some other head scratchers as well. Comes with the territory and something Im sure will never go away. Thanks for sharing!

[@3gslabs483]

Cripes....I think you had a heck of a sub. Tons of great grades. Those cards are beautiful for sure. I hope to get some more blind reveal videos up soon. Keep the content coming and you gained a new subscriber.

[@ilovehouse888]

@@3gslabs483 I appreciate the sub. Thanks for the comment and for watching!

[@buffalobraves9]

Based on the trimmed card grades you got back it seems using an empty case to determine if it’s been trimmed isn’t working. And the fact one grader gave the Nitschke a 6 and the next grader (could be the same guy) gave it a 7.5 shows grading is an absolute lottery and IMO a scam.

[@ilovehouse888]

I started using the plastic case after I got those cards back as trimmed and have not received another altered or trimmed grade since.

[@danielbasso586]

As a collector, I love 3's, 4's and 5's. I ran out of kidney's chasing 8's and 9's. You have some awesome cards with great centering.

[@ilovehouse888]

Thank you 🙂

[@raymoreci3847]

The charges are robbery! Why should they get a bigger chunk for a more valuable card, the work they put into each card is essentially the same. They are a rip off.

[@ilovehouse888]

I agree 100%. The only justification I can see for a slight up charge is for the shipping liability to ship it back to the customer. If it is lost, stolen, or damaged on the way back, the grader would have to eat that cost. So I can see them charging just a little more for shipping insurance but it should not be that much unless you have a card worth 50,000 or more or something like that. Thanks for your comment and for checking out the video.

[@landanwoodard7569]

AI grading is the future. It removes the human element and prevents cracking and resubmitting. Every card is like a fingerprint and given a certification number.

[@markyyaya]

Yep! The people grading have more flaws than the cards (lol)

[@Ragnarok691]

It’s a scam, I sent a couple to test, they grade based on how they feel that day.

[@robdemare8250]

Answer to your question lies with the undetectable flaws not visible to the naked eye.

[@ilovehouse888]

I believe you have a good point. At the same time, if it can’t be seen by the naked eye, should they really be marking the card down for that? It’s certainly debatable. Thanks for your comment and for checking out the video.

[@raidersacdc4892]

BGS doesn’t use evidence of trimming. They basically just say it was altered. I pulled the Elly de La Cruz Superfractor auto from ‘22 Pro Debut. Sold it for 3K and apparently the buyer sold it to someone else who sent it to BGS. The card was NM/M when I pulled it. Who knows why they tried to trim the thing. A 9 on that card with a 10 auto would have been worth a lot more if they just left it alone

[@vintageonvintage817]

New subscriber, really enjoyed this video. I send a lot of cards to SGC ( my grader of choice) for the most part I think they are fairly consistent although, I do believe that grading companies have become a lot more stringent today than in years past. I have a Yaz RC that is min size from the factory that they won't give a number grade, think that needs to change, if they know that is how it was cut at the factory they should grade it accordingly.

[@ilovehouse888]

I agree 100%. If the grader knows it has not been tampered with, they should certainly grade it. Thanks for the sub and for watching.

[@robertarnold7187]

I have a Jordan/Griffey Jr. Card that I opened from a pack. The card seems like it was trimned judging by the magnetic protector. The card is beautiful but if that causes a lower grade Im not sending it in. Is that common?

[@ilovehouse888]

Having a min sized card is not too common but it does happen from time to time. You can see if your cards fit in the hard plastic case and if they fit snugly, then you should be good. You will also want to examine the centering, corners, and edges as well. The last thing to determine is how much value will grading add to your card since grading fees are usually $15-$20 per card plus you have to pay to ship it to and from the grader. If you believe the value is there and the quality of the card looks good, I would send it in. At the very least it will authenticate the card, encapsulate and protect it, and hopefully it will add lots of value to the card if it receives a high grade. Hope this helps. Thanks for watching.

[@robertarnold7187]

@@ilovehouse888 Thanks very much for the advice. I opened the card myself and it's hard to find from what I've seen. Seems just a tiny bit smaller in a magnetic holder. Definitely nor a miniature though. I'll send it in and see what happens. Thanks again.

[@ilovehouse888]

@@robertarnold7187 For sure. Good luck with it. I hope you get some high grades. I have had some cards where there was just a very little bit of space in the hard plastic case that still got graded. So the card does not have to fit exactly but it needs to be close. Sometimes you just have to roll the dice and see what happens, especially if there is a good chance of drastically increasing the value of the cards.

[@robertarnold7187]

@@ilovehouse888 AMEN to that! I think I'll send it in as it's quite rare from what I can find. I'll let you know how it ends up. Thanks again.

[@Red-mp3to]

A "4" on that Joe Morgan is a joke. I went back, paused and scanned your card many times and I don't see any issues that would drop it to a "4". The only possibility is that there's dimples or something like that which can't be seen via your video. But even if that was the case, no way does it deserve a "4". Grading is absolutely a scam!! P.S. - made my comment before watching the entire video. You went on to mention that these cards don't have surface issues. That makes the grading even more of a joke AND a scam!

[@ilovehouse888]

Thank you for your comment. I agree 100%. I looked at other 4’s and it’s not even close. The surface on it is solid. When it comes time to sell it I will sell it as a raw pack fresh card and crack it out or have it regraded. I don’t want to take losses just because the grader doesn’t know how to do their job. Thanks for watching.

[@jchcollins]

Nice cards. I would disagree on the mag test for card sizing. Many vintage cards will not literally fit flush in those. Micro differences in size before 1980 legit from the factory were common. For example, I have a few 1958 Topps cards that won't fit in those at all. They are too big. Others from 60's sets fit, but have a noticeable gap along one side or another. They aren't trimmed. Many '71 Topps cards have plenty of room in those type of holders, and I've subbed a lot of those off to SGC where they get number grades. Measuring is still likely the best tool, although even that isn't foolproof. 1/32 of an inch short in some cases is ok. More than 1/16 and I'm going to be suspicious.

[@ilovehouse888]

I agree. Some older sets have sizes that vary. I should have mentioned that. Also, as you mentioned, some cards are short and came that way from the factory. The question is, how much of a tolerance do the graders allow? It's hard to say. I have had some cards come back min sized that they refused to grade. Some were not even that short. I guess I am kind of paranoid these days, especially after paying top dollar for those Mantles only to find out they were trimmed. I would always tell people to error on the side of caution unless they are keeping them for their personal collection and are not having them graded. Then it's all good. Thanks for watching and for your comment.

[@jchcollins]

@@ilovehouse888 The tolerance question right now is the one that graders, and particularly PSA, seem to be falling down by. As evidenced by the fact that you can submit a card multiple times, one time it will be called trimmed, one time it will be called minsize, and the next time it will get a PSA 6. There is ZERO consistency with those guys with this type of thing right now, which is unfortunate because it's just another thing that leads new collectors and the less informed to conclude that grading is a scam. Agree with you on the Mantles, increasingly and always if I'm not able to look at the card in person before I buy - anything pricey generally needs to be in a slab already. It's just not worth the risk.

[@sw1217]

New to the channel. I thought the mid grades were fine, but feels like the grader wasn't used to high grade vintage. Where are you finding these cards in the wild?

[@ilovehouse888]

I had to search heavily online and garage sales and anywhere else where I could find cards. It is also a challenge to find cards at reasonable prices. Some sellers add in sentimental value and some just want to ask way more than market value. I have had to walk away from several deals. Facebook marketplace, offer up, and sites like that are good places to start. Happy hunting.

[@ArduinoDavid]

Your 1961 Clemente is worthy of an 8 ….1961 Mantle is definitely a 7 …it’s truly unjust when these grading companies dictate who gets the better grade

[@ilovehouse888]

Thank you for watching and for your comment. I agree 100%. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be at a 7 or 8 for some of these vintage cards, especially the ones that are well centered and in excellent condition. After you have seen enough vintage cards you know how hard good ones are to find. Many have printing defects, are way off center, and certainly look their age. I was surprised to find some of these in such good condition but still received lower grades. It is what it is at this point.

[@markpotash7986]

Who trims a '57 Mantle and leaves it that off-center?

[@ilovehouse888]

Good point. I was wondering the same thing. I think it may be min size from the manufacturer or someone tried to trim it and failed miserably.

[@nyerc7508]

So-called blazers, 9's & 10's, from the 'vintage' era IMO generally come out of Topps 'presentation' sets. Presentation Sets were produced, carefully, and slowly, at the beginning of a print run, for inspection, and were distributed to 'friends, family and associates'.

[@gargantuangoose24]

Shooting this vertically made this a tough watch. In saying that I’m interested in the 64 mantle

[@ilovehouse888]

Sorry about that. Will video horizontally going forward. 👍🏻

[@Shaw_Cardboard_Treasures]

Is it possible that the edges are worn. I have a 79 Ryan. Looks perfect. But when I put it under 10x, the bottom edge paint is cracking. Should I still send it in for grading?

[@ilovehouse888]

It’s really a judgment call. Sometimes grading will add a lot of value to the card if it’s valuable enough. If it’s a common card that is only valuable in a 9 or 10 then it might not be worth sending. If you are referring to the 79 topps Nolan it would have to get an 8 or better to be worth your time. Grading fees will be $15 per card plus shipping to and from the grader. Hope this helps.

[@Shaw_Cardboard_Treasures]

@ilovehouse888 Yes, your advice is helpful.

[@kuhlaid6305]

No more than modern trading cards are, especially with their nonstop and ridiculous parallels.

[@Kenneth-nVA]

True 10’s in vintage cards are generally unattainable… however, I personally thought each of these grades were bumped down a notch. As you stated, I’ve seen a 61 Clemente in an 8 and yours looks outstanding! The 66 Rose as well. Though I was personally disappointed in the grades, your video is a go to with dealers selling ungraded cards. They will try the “ probably a 8-8.5 grade “ even with a OC card. I do like the slabs but unfortunately it categorizes a card forever. People see the big graded number and go from there…

[@lafr1515]

Grading is def a scam, think about it this way, the grading companies also control the population count as well

[@ilovehouse888]

Yes. That is a great point. It’s in their best interest to keep populations low and d values high to keep us chasing high grades. Thanks for watching.

[@KSHE1967]

The grading companies give the large dealers better grades IMO.

[@ilovehouse888]

I agree.

[@richardbianco9674]

I would agree but graders never see who submitted them. They are assigned a number for that particular order before they go to a grader

[@williampotts7205]

I'm done with PSA also. SGC is the way to go, but am disappointed that they sold to Collectors. They should have stayed as is,but I don't know their financial books. I do know that they moved into a bigger location this last year as well. Hopefully a 10 will be a 10 and sell for higher now that they are over-viewed by PSA . Prices get more in-line with PSA prices. Just hoping. Eye appeal first and foremost.

[@vermontmike9800]

SGC is horribly inconsistent.

[@ut_sportsfan]

I don't get how that 64 mantle is trimmed, it looked like it filled the whole slab. I assume now crack those open and sell raw?

[@ilovehouse888]

One of the edges has a very very very slight slant to it and doesn’t sit exactly straight. You have to really be looking to see it. It does show when I put it in the hard plastic case. It could be a miss cut from the factory or it could have been trimmed. Hard to say for sure. Wish I would have used the case before I bought it. I don’t know if the seller knew about it or not either. It’s probably best to just keep it in the case for now. I would hate to sell it raw to someone only for them to run into the same issue. Thanks for watching.

[@judiepitsos4464]

Centering, is 4th to check. Surface, corners, edges,,,, Centering.

[@ilovehouse888]

Good to know. I think the corners, surfaces, and edges were on point too for many of these cards, especially for being 50-60 years old. Thanks for watching.

[@richardbianco9674]

Plus the fact that sgc says they go off way more than just those 4. The one thing I will say is their standards have not changed since the beginning where as we all know psa had to get tougher the last few years

[@robdemare8250]

Centering is the MOST IMPORTANT aspect of the card. That's why Beckett assigns the subgrades in order: (Centering, Corners, Edges, Surface)...most important to least important.

[@richardbianco9674]

@@robdemare8250 that's just alphabetical. Each is weighted the same.

[@thetwotravelers546]

I would be demanding a refund, the company you used has no idea how to grade. Those were some very nice cards.

[@ilovehouse888]

Thank you for your comment and for watching. I appreciate it. Yeah, I may have to resend them someday for a second opinion and hope for more accurate results. Maybe I will send them when there is a trusted AI or technology based grader which will eliminate human error and subjectivity.

[@keithroller3131]

Man some great cards , luv them awesome video! Keep it up !!

[@caesarvalentin6332]

I was told about cards that look near mint condition but off center degrade it to excellent -mint condition.

[@ilovehouse888]

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

[@collectasaurusrex1344]

It can’t be a scam when you lose and the greatest thing since sliced bread when you win.

[@Georgieboy_4]

Got squeezed a bit. Beautiful cards my friend

[@peterleonardini239]

Awesome lot of cards, you were definitely robbed on the 61 Mick!!

[@ilovehouse888]

Thank you and thanks for watching.

[@micpay]

Yes it’s a scam because if you have a card that could potentially be a big moneymaker they are going to get their cut !

[@micpay]

I would like to explain this ; my partner pulled a museum auto relic one for one and they charged him $250.00 to grade and was listed as a $3-4000.00 dollar card ! So much for that $20-30 dollar grade price they advertised !! True story !!

[@ilovehouse888]

@@micpay That’s a really good point. Up charges are definitely a scam. There should be the same fee for all cards no matter what its graded value. The only issue is the grader has to pay for insurance to mail it back. I could see a bump in the insurance costs but not in grading fees.

[@mantlecollector]

I dunno about graded cards cuz its subject to one person opinion on what the card grade is. Just cuz one person at psa says the card is a 5 doesn't mean it's a 5. For all we know, the card could be a 4 or a 6. And it shouldn't matter who grades the card, the grade the card gets shouldn't change if it's in the same condition if u send it to psa or sgc or whoever. Just cuz one grading company has different ways to determine a grade that grade should always be the same. For example: 2+2 is always gonna equal 4. No matter who is doing the math 2+2=4. It doesn't change. Same way with grading cards. Unless for some reason the card condition changed like there's a new crease or a ding corner when there wasn't one before then and only then should the grade be different. People pay so much money when buying graded cards when that might not be the true grade of that card. If u sent that card to 5 different grading company and it came back the same grade then I can say that card is a 5.

[@mikesbaseballcards]

I've been collecting for a long time n never sent in cards for grading. I like them ungraded however when I buy a high end card it's graded. I'm building the 66T set n PSA was real tough especially the Morgan card! Should've have been higher n others. instead of buying a case just use a modern card n put on top of each other. It's a lot cheaper.

[@ilovehouse888]

That is a great idea. I also buy cheap commons from the same set from a reputable seller online and place one over the other as well to make sure they are the right size. Can never be too careful these days.

[@glennbryant1292]

Even though the back sides are faded you got lucky sgc

[@jeremyarnold2933]

Are any of these for sale?

[@ilovehouse888]

Not at the moment. I may list some on ebay in the future. Is there a particular one you are interested in? Thanks for watching.

[@rogerdavis9962]

💪awesome cards, very excellent condition

[@ilovehouse888]

Thank you 🙂

[@Bluejacket66]

Grading companies have become too stringent for sure

[@robertarnold7187]

Agreed. The way cards were made back in the 80's and prior have little chance of a high grade these days. Obvioysly luck comes into play. The cards now are more durable and better made to last. I don't understand how you can use the same grading system on cards from the 1950s and modern cards. Just my opinion.

[@VintageSportsCards1979]

They need to explain their grades in my opinion.

[@ilovehouse888]

I agree. All graders should have subgrades. Thanks for checking out the video.

[@DJSquish76]

Just wait till AI grades. Then we will get all the explanations we want. Those are great cards and always remember if it's too good to be true it probably is.

[@corymcewen5943]

Yeah it is and this is why. These people grading cards are no more professionals than I am and each card is subjective to each person. What one may think is a 8 the next may think it's a 6! What actually makes these people think they are professionals to grade cards? ANYBODY can do that job. And I'd bet PSA has lord knows how many people doing it cause of millions of submissions. It's a joke

[@ilovehouse888]

I agree 100%. Thanks for watching.

[@j.tyler2024]

Im taking mine to a catd shiw and aubmitting them so that doesn't happen. Those all should be 6-9

[@Mountainrock70]

Your Ray Nitschee is a prime example grading is bogus. I buy graded cards if the price is right, but I wont send any in for grading.

[@BradYaateeh.]

It is more a money grab.

[@kennyshort9078]

Evidence of trimming on that 1957 Mantle!!! Ouch!! Imagine paying over 700.00 only to find out it's worthless.. 😢😢😢😢

[@ilovehouse888]

Thankfully, the 57 Mantle is still worth $500 even if it's trimmed. But it's good to do your research and prevent it from happening in the first place.

[@SportsCardsetcetera]

At times grading does appear to have an unsavory and sleazy aspect to it.

[@SEANGUS-xe9ib]

Wish I would have thought of this SCAM years ago....

[@ilovehouse888]

Hahahah. Yes. Looking at peoples cards and putting them in cheap plastic cases for a bunch of cash seems like a pretty sweet deal huh?

[@frankcardinal77]

I'm not sure about grading. I think people put blind faith in all these companies. If you are getting things "professionally" graded they should have to justify the grades. Notes as to why the grade is the grade otherwise it's not "professional" I did not like where the hobby was going with grading over 25 years ago and I still don't like it. You all just blindly giving away your money to these companies who can arbitrarily say it's this grade without any justification.

[@JoeKyser]

Scamming is a grade

[@MattPayne-b2c]

When grades come back good "I love grading! I'll keep doing it!". When grades come back bad "It's a scam".

[@MattPayne-b2c]

Card has a crease "I expect an 8!". What are we doing lmao

[@ilovehouse888]

You're missing the point. I want grades to be consistent and fair. I am not a fair weather grader. The VAST majority of the grades I have received have been low in my opinion. They are usually 1-2 grades lower than they should be. How many 63 Ray cards have you looked at? What do you know about that set and it's condition? Probably not much.

[@ilovehouse888]

@@MattPayne-b2c It got a 7.5. Why would an 8 be out of the question? It's not a crease as in a fold in the card. Maybe "extremely light bend" that can only be noticed in the right angle of light would be the best way to say it. In any case, for the 1963 set, the Ray is in extremely good condition. I challenge you to find a raw one in better condition.

[@josephsmith7087]

Yes, yes it's a scam

[@Shaw_Cardboard_Treasures]

Thanks for sharing. I recently bought some cards. Mostly, 70s and early 80s. The cards look great, but under 10x, they don't look so good. I'm learning about grading by watching videos. I just sent my first submission to psa today. The cards look perfect. Made sure they were centered with the centering tool. Looked at them under 10x. . I'll be highly disappointed if they don't come back with 10 grades. I have Jordan's that look new. They just came out of sets. Did I mention I bought these cards from a former card dealer. He closed his business down in 2003. Yes, most of it has been picked thru. But it looks like whoever went thru was looking mainly for baseball cards and missed the basketball cards. I probably have over a million cards. Too bad for me, a lot of it is junk wax.

[@ilovehouse888]

Good luck with the grades. Keep us posted. Hope they come back good. Thanks for watching.

[@robwallace802]

Yes

[@j.tyler2024]

They pop control the vintage cards to death modern they dont

[@MatthewCSeuferwindowsheaven]

Card grading is highly over priced and over rated.Dont let these companies keep you from collecting. Back in the day they didnt make cards to be Perfect! Enjoy them as they are.As long as they are authentic,is good enough.

[@kevindunn6124]

They are off centered on the back

[@ilovehouse888]

Some are but other are pretty spot on. I don't believe the centering on the back holds as much weight as it does on the front. I have seen many 9's and 10's where the back centering is off. It may justify 0.5 or 1 grade lower unless it is really off center. I still don't think it justifies the grades I received. Thanks for watching and for your comment.

[@5371W]

I didn't watch the video, but yes.

[@jamesb6686]

yup

[@EricWhisenant-l7c]

Yes grading is a scame iv been collecting for 35 years and the changes modern people are trying to make will come back to haunt yall

[@EricWhisenant-l7c]

And if your a real collector u know how to authencate your own stuff

[@brendanjobe7286]

More like a subjective swindle. The graders are trained but each individual has a unique perspective and the grades prove this. Those cards you presented are phenomenal! If that fat stack was in the other magnetic holders we’d all be blown away. As for the authentic grades due to trimming that is a problem. Any of us who’ve opened sealed packs from the vintage era knows if you take the stack from the wax & hold them all together, they aren’t all exactly the same size. Your 1960 Clemente & 1965 World Series Mick the Quick home-run cards are spectacular looking, both are MINT at least & I’ve been closely scrutinizing all of these card sets since 1974.

[@MakeMineaDouble]

Everything is a scam son.

[@Ragnarok691]

Is Beer a scam? Is life meaningless?

[@ilovehouse888]

That is definitely the trend these days. Seems there is a con around every corner. Buyers have to always beware. Thanks for watching.