Is Christianity Dangerous? - BBC Debate

[@danielomitted1867]

Aron is basically a walking incarnation of the comment section on any atheistic youtube video.

[@WhatsTheTakeaway]

🤣😂🤣👍 Im inclined to agree lol

[@Zeal_Faith_Humanity]

I am an agnostic-atheist. Not all atheism is anti-theism. I love the artistic aspect of religion accomplished by the working people who built it. Please show solidarity as a proletariat.

[@edcarson3113]

Daniel Omitted he’s got a lot of clones it would seem.

[@edcarson3113]

Authoritarian M.L get yourself saved comrade

[@sgorgardr227]

@@Zeal_Faith_Humanity Who did said that all atheists like that? (although 100% all, we don't need that "i don't hate you", go on, feed us to lions, that's all you're good for, sorry, whoever does not have love does not know God, because God is LOVE, and LOVE does not seek for it's own) He just noted a HILARIOUS though, i mean look at him)) And not a word of truth, and tons of exaggerations.

[@paulfreeman4900]

AronRa helped me to find my Christian faith again

[@gowdsake7103]

You are not so bight huh

[@Sapientiaa]

@@gowdsake7103If you think Aron Ra is bright and makes reasonable arguments then you’re special. You have to be torturing logic to actually think that.

[@gowdsake7103]

@@Sapientiaa Name ONE SINGLE THING he said wrong Name one point when he did not address the point of christianity being inherently dangerous and causing irrationality

[@Sapientiaa]

@@gowdsake7103 ​​⁠You stated two completely different things, and from your response I can already tell that you didn’t even bother watching the video. If you did then everything went over your head. What don’t you understand about Aron’s attribution biases which are fallaciously used throughout the debate. Name one of his points with a time stamp and I’ll refute it.

[@gowdsake7103]

@@Sapientiaa 7 min , 18 52 go ahead and lie for jebus

[@lawson5512]

Aaron Ra: Christianity doesn't allow you to question it Aaron Ra: *is literally in a debate with a Christian about Christianity*

[@cloudsstar]

and what ever the book says is what you believe this is why some Christians us the bible to prove the earth is flat as well as only 6 thousand years old for young earthers and old earthers think its 10 thousand years old

[@El-Silver]

@@cloudsstar despite the Bible never mention such thing And also genesis when you read it the original hewbrew it has a lot of metaphorical meaning And that god said to seek knowledge

[@cloudsstar]

@@El-Silver and who picks what is metaphorical and what is not because i love watching christian vs christian debates and watching them fight over this and yet to hear any come to an agreement you forget in Jewish belief at the time as shown in the bible they believed the earth did not move and was on pillars For the foundations of the earth are the LORD’s; on them he has set the world. Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. can only happen if the earth was flat same with the tree god talked about that was so big you could see the whole earth from the top so a tree that grows to space He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. god did not know the earth went around the sun thought it never moved After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. again they believed at the time the earth was flat this is not even going to the book of job and bringing up gods challenge to job that any grade 6 child today would be like umm god sorry but thats not how the world works or when Jesus returns if he comes from the sky over Jerusalem no one in north amarica would be able to look up and see the son of god coming back there is no point in the sky that the whole earth could see him at the same time like the book says unless the earth is flat. google the Jewish map from biblical days lots of Jewish temples and a few christian ones still have the maps on display. it shows the earth is flat and under the earth is shoal and under shoal aka hell is the pillars that hold up that earth as shown to the jews by god but because we know better today they cut that part out

[@cloudsstar]

@@El-Silver again a christian that screams my book dont say that and yet the book says that

[@cloudsstar]

@@El-Silver thats what im saying so much things this book claims was unknown at the time but today we can test its claims and show its not true. like gods challenge to job where god says crows dont hunt and find food god provides for them then forgets all the birds that die of starvation because they cant find food or when jesus says if you have faith and are a follower of me you can command a mountain to jump in the sea and it will because god can do anything i have yet to see a christian command anything but finding keys and stupid stuff and saying god did it why not do things that dont happen natural jesus said anything you ask for will be done

[@whaddoyoumeme]

Yikes. Bad week for Aron Ra. He got in way over his head tonight in his debate with Dougherty too. IP, FTW!

[@pJ005-k9i]

what do you meme??

[@inspiringlysimple4042]

@@pJ005-k9i aron ra is todays meme

[@catholicphoenix7969]

You know what to say next time Aron Ra starts saying Christianity is dangerous. Whaddo you meme?

[@Dhorpatan]

Hold the damn phone. Whaddo you Meme picked as the winner the person who is on his side? Wow, how convenient and original. That's like those jerks on the Five trashing liberals and Democrats. Real original stuff there from day to day. Now, watch for my comment to get 50 thumbs up. Oh, I mean zero.

[@inspiringlysimple4042]

@@Dhorpatan hahah no thumbs up take this L you bitch

[@FunkadelicPancho]

As an atheist, I can say Michael absolutely won the debate. He stayed on topic, was articulate, cited real, credible sources. Aron leaned most on leftist talking points and buzzwords while using personal experience as valid evidence.

[@pJ005-k9i]

Really??!!! well we have a honest atheist over here. thank you!

[@inspiringlysimple4042]

YEEEEESS we Need more Atheist like you finally an honest and good Atheist love you man honesty is important and lets be honest aron is great when it Comes to YEC but when it Comes to Topics like this with a good real Christian he loses

[@FunkadelicPancho]

I defend Christianity pretty often, lots of atheists try to conflate the atrocities of Islam with the other big religions and it's simply fucking fallacious.

[@Zeal_Faith_Humanity]

I agree, as a hard leaning communist. Solidarity with my religous comrades!

[@doon5061]

@@Zeal_Faith_Humanity communism doesn't work

[@BibleIllustrated]

I came here for like/dislike ratio and I'm very disappointed.

[@thenopasslook]

Bible Illustrated I wasn’t expecting to see you in the comments haha salute

[@BibleIllustrated]

@@thenopasslook I liked IP on FB ages ago, just getting into his stuff :-) As for the debate, Aron specifically, as we'd say in Serbian - "Not even buttons remained."

[@brandontaylor3249]

Woooaaaaah! Heeeeeeey

[@terratremuit4757]

Love your channel, man!

[@krixpop]

! ! ! Novak Djokovic ! ! ! ! ! East Europe dominating Wimbledon this Year !!! Admiration and Respect to Serbia from Romania !!!

[@ModernDayDebate]

OH YEAH! This was EPIC! SMASH that thumbs up!

[@luisr5577]

Hi, James! You have a great channel.

[@ModernDayDebate]

@@yeti5684 Hey Ty, you're so right, I just realized this evening I put the wrong date! It just happened tonight! :)

[@ModernDayDebate]

@@luisr5577 thank you, Luis! That means a lot! :)

[@willsal7806]

Hey man, I'm a new subber. Your channel is great.. I enjoy the various topics..

[@ModernDayDebate]

@@willsal7806 thanks, Will! I'm glad you're hanging with us! Please mention if there are any topics you'd especially enjoy hearing debated! :)

[@TrevorAndersen]

Aron Ra: Christians never give scientific evidence. Michael: Here’s a bunch. Aron Ra: Christians never give scientific evidence. Michael: Here’s some Repeat

[@holz_name]

Can you give me one example of Michael giving scientific evidence? I'm not that far in the Q/A of the video and I can't watch Michael anymore sitting there as a brick and not saying anything.

[@FunkadelicPancho]

Please give an example

[@Erick-yf4bc]

@@FunkadelicPancho 31:40, 32:39, 32:48,

[@ericbrown6203]

@@holz_name Maybe try his opening statement :)

[@holz_name]

@@ericbrown6203 Ah, I thought about the Q/A, because Trevor cited like a back and forth with AronRa and Michael.

[@Gatorbeaux]

IP killed it again- with science- when will these emotional atheists actually do some research?

[@Gatorbeaux]

Nigel Butt well no Christian apologists I follow it know do that- that’s more along the lines of what this Aron guy has produced- IP certainly brought all the evidence tonight- now he can debate the truth of Christianity next time- I mean Aron could t even understand the definition of “ faith” in the original Greek- You can’t really criticize something if you misuse the hermeneutics, ya know?

[@Gatorbeaux]

Nigel Butt maybe you can read IPs studies he cites- that could help you some- if anyone just blindly follows anything without evidence, they are dimwits-

[@inspiringlysimple4042]

@Nigel Butt ma guy how About LITERALLY LOOKING UP THE GODDAME DATA IP SHOWED YOU IN THIS PRESENTATION YOU FUCKING DIPSHIT

[@Gatorbeaux]

Inspiringly Simple lol. Take it easy(I agree with you BTW). They act like they are the thinkers yet are too lazy to do the work). IP laid it all out- now just do some research- 👍👍👍

[@Gatorbeaux]

Ty Irish it may as well be- he clearly dominated tonight--

[@LunEToon223]

Aron Ra's whole opening statement was essentially a composition fallacy, IP won this one hands down.

[@lileveyc]

Thank you ! His examples of Hate crime, violent slavery, The sex scandals being against vaccines condoms interracial marriage are all unbibical are therefore prove misunderstanding or misusing christianity is dangerous not christianity itself.

[@asix9178]

@@lileveyc _"are all unbibical"_ Tell that to the CHRISTIANS that commit these acts based on their interpretation of the big book of confusion. Learn what a 'no true Scotsman' fallacy is.

[@asix9178]

@@ea-tr1jh _"you can't apply the no true sportsman fallacy to Christianity."_ Ahahahaha!!! I'm not applying a 'no true SCOTSMAN fallacy to Christianity. Christians are Committing a no true SCOTSMAN fallacy by claiming a person that interprets the big book of confusion differently than them is "not a true Christian". Just as you're about to do. _"Christianity is clearly defined"_ Said every Christian of the thousands of differing interpretations of the fairy tale. _"The fact that you believe that Christianity extends to any interpretation of the Bible proves your ignorance."_ The fact that you pretend you're not committing a "no true SCOTSMAN" fallacy by claiming someone isn't a Christian if they don't adhere to your interpretation of the most confusing book ever written, proves your ignorance.

[@MoxxMix]

You are a moron!

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

@@lileveyc what christianity condone any of those things, and second you could make an argument that Christians are people who claim to be Christians are dangerous but not Christianity there’s absolutely no evidence, and Michael providing sources to back of his claims, what sources do you have.

[@LukeABarnes]

"Every Christian I've ever debated this with tells me that I'm misdefining faith." Aron Ra (1:01:04)

[@ea-tr1jh]

Because you are, Aron. If every Christian is telling you that, maybe you should consider the possibility you're wrong?

[@Levi-rl3fu]

Aron, does that fact not cause you to even consider the possibility you might be.... Not talking about the same thing we are? 😔

[@goldenalt3166]

@Kelvin Martinez How does studying and praying give you faith?

[@krixpop]

@@goldenalt3166 haha, you will be surprised ! do it : "studying and praying" and it might give you faith , if not, it will give you a great inside into the History of one of the most influential Religion on planet Earth And please do not come to me and ask: what about Religion on Alpha-Centauri ? We will speak about that when we get there :D til then : Live Long and Prosper !

[@goldenalt3166]

@Language and Programming Channel You don't need to convince me. Convince Kelvin.

[@EricHernandez]

I'm disappointed that my question upset Aron. Can't wait to get some time to do a video on it ;)

[@EverythingNT]

Eric Hernandez loved your question and how you threw it all back into his face as well as how it’s become a hilarious meme 😂😂

[@robertfreid2879]

Oh! That was you! Heh. Yeah, Aron comes off as a stereotypical anti-religious atheist ideologue in his extremely historically inaccurate rant...

[@philroe2363]

Upset? . . . all you were trying to do was get him to answer the same question he kept evading in the debate. I love that it "upset him" . . . because it just shows you were striking a nerve with a question he can't answer.

[@schrishzen]

I don’t think he heard your question in the way you meant it. Your meaning of evidence I believe is different (in this context)

[@schrishzen]

Eric Hernandez though I’d say it does interfere with his understanding of “faith”.

[@ThinkClub]

How dare you use science, Mr. Jones.

[@Cattaraugus1066]

Are you going to do a commentary on this?

[@ThinkClub]

@@Cattaraugus1066 I was thinking about it. Jones didn't point out any of the grief studies. I wish he would hit Aron harder with the evolutionary argument since it would force Ra to pull out his pathetic and outdated argument from Richard Dawkins.

[@Cattaraugus1066]

@@ThinkClub cool man can't wait

[@doon5061]

@@ThinkClub My boi doing commentary can't wait

[@JP-rf8rr]

@@ThinkClub PLEASE DO IT!!!!

[@soulcage6228]

As predicted, the atheist relies on emotional arguments and ridicule.

[@cloudsstar]

you mean most Christians pick what they believe to the time they are living. most y'all dont think your religion is like this because you only see it in the west not knowing most the rest of the world think north american and European Christianity is a different religion from the rest of the world. as most of you see it as its today after years of changes to fit in, laws change then the religion kicks and screams then changes then acts like all the shit it was kicking and screaming that it did not want to change never happened as most dont studied the history of religion. you forget they used the bible to keep women from voting and having power keeping slavery, your big kick and scream fight today is gay people but in about 50-100 years you will act like it never happen as you see you are wrong. 200 years ago you believed in witches science proved they are not real now half the church still believes as the other half knows its not real changes in religion take time then you act like the change never happened forgetting if we keep to the bible women would not vote we would still have slaves and like the book commands you would be killing non believers as that got cut out when religion was banned from government

[@Zeal_Faith_Humanity]

I am Atheist. And I love the Christians, Muslims and Buddhists. Please show solidarity as a proletariat. We are not all anti-theists.

[@LogosTheos]

@@cloudsstar Very poor understanding of Christianity. You are brainwashed by anti-theist babble like AronRa.

[@AntiCitizenX]

So those dozens upon dozens of demonstrable examples of people doing horrible things in the express name of their religion was nothing but "emotional arguments?" Good grief, you people are either the most dishonest liars, you are quite literally too stupid to understand the points being made.

[@rushhour775]

Authoritarian M.L Buddhist are atheist too.

[@luisr5577]

IP: Here we have *SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE* that shows that intrinsic religiousity is beneficial. AR: But... my personal interpretation of X says it is bad. IP: But we have *SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE* that shows that intrinsic religiousity is beneficial. AR: Yeah, but, my personal interpretation of X says it is bad. IP: Again, we have *SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE* that shows that intrinsic religiousity is beneficial. AR: But faith is belief without evidence. LOL!

[@markuswmenezes]

Reminded me of Dillahunty vs IP. Except that Dillahunty didn't rant when asked a question.

[@oldmandan4244]

There isn't any scientific evidence intrinsic religiosity is beneficial. There are plenty of studies that attending religious functions is beneficial due to social interaction. SJ got her arguments spanked on this topic recently, too.

[@blindtruth4614]

It is pretty much a cheap tactic in a debate where you do not have time to examine any of these papers that he is talking about or anyway during the debate time to be able to debunk them, however I do hope that Aaron does have time to examine these research papers, but for me personally I only need to look at what has been done historically in the name of religion or because of superstitions brought on through religious beliefs and it is clear that religion is dangerous but does that not mean that certain effects of religion are not beneficial or could be beneficial no of course not.

[@inspiringlysimple4042]

@James Gray what Barker??? who is that and who cares just because an individual did something doesnt mean that what he belived in is wrong or bad if hitler belive cars exist does that mean just because he belived that all People that own a car are Evil????

[@inspiringlysimple4042]

@@blindtruth4614 and btw this is a genetic fallacy just because Scientist created the nuclear bomb and killed over 300 000 People doesnt mena science is Evil the Action of specific People in that belive doesnt mean that the belive itself is bad idiot

[@paradisecityX0]

Aron Ra Nelson got eviscerated

[@Tyler-Hoskins]

My goodness. You’re literally everywhere. You and I must enjoy the same subjects lol

[@paradisecityX0]

@@Tyler-Hoskins Haha subscribe to my channel and you'll see even more of me 😎

[@DavidFlores-md2fy]

Yiiikesss... I’m sorry, but after this Aron Ra has lost all credit to him. He just presents his opinions and subjective experiences.

[@cloudsstar]

still watching it but so far everything he has said you can look up and find true for yourself

[@philroe2363]

What amazes me is that anyone ever thinks he has any "credibility." All he ever does is emote. The guy is so short on facts it is just plain silly. Ad hom of believers and creationists is not an argument. It is just emotion.

[@cloudsstar]

@@philroe2363 and yet you can google pastors telling there congregation to kill gay people look at Pastor Greg Fritts or what about the pastors feeding there congregation bleach and calling it a holy cure the problem with christian people is most the info on the world they get is only from other religious people and most dont like hearing bad about the religion

[@philroe2363]

@Duck_City: LMBO!! . . . fantasize much??

[@cloudsstar]

@Saint Knight google is your friend i could do all the work for you or you can look it up yourself

[@rickdavis2235]

All Aron is doing is showcasing his ignorance of history as well as the bible.

[@kofibonsu8466]

@TheCosmicWarrior well said brother

[@8og7crtxrftghjujhre4dztu8ljg]

IP is an absolute legend for providing sources in the description

[@petery6432]

The part in his later response where he calls out Aron Ra for not taking the papers is legendary

[@TrevorAndersen]

Whoa! He said his personal experience is better than science!?

[@luisr5577]

Basically.

[@davelikesbacon]

Yet said multiple times that no Christian in 20 years has given him a scientific argument... But if his personal experience trumps science then what's his reason for scientific arguments and not just personal experience from Christians? 🤷

[@WhatsTheTakeaway]

@@davelikesbacon Yes, good takeaway.

[@lukesalazar9283]

@@davelikesbacon but that is not the topic of debate. So try again.

[@Tzimiskes3506]

@@lukesalazar9283 gonna cry?

[@maralm5103]

Funny that the majority of atheists's comments are just making fun of Michael's voice!.... You know they are getting desperate when they use personal insults! And they dare call Christians brainwashed and immature! Lol! Keep it up guys! You are only helping!

[@cloudsstar]

look at the 100s of studies of just praying they have shown people who dont know they are being prayed for and people who are not prayed for have the same recovery rate, then you look at people who know they are being prayed for and who are told they are being prayed for but are not shown they do worse for recovery then the ones who dont know they are who are not being prayed for all or are not being prayed for the same type of operation peer revised studies show praying for someone makes things go bad as they make them self more sick trying to show god healed them

[@Zeal_Faith_Humanity]

@@cloudsstar Not all Christians are fundamentalists. In fact- the grand majority are not... Especially in France, where here we call ourselves "Atheist-Catholics". Get with the real world, and it's real problems.

[@cloudsstar]

@@Zeal_Faith_Humanity i have yet to find ones who dont act like this yes i see some on youtube but from the churches i have been to and seen i dont see this christian most talk about. i been to churches that believe woman are servants of men i been to churches that teach hate of gays and trans people, i been to churches that teach beat your kids but i have also been to churches that teach love and acceptance, all depends if you are in a highly religious area or not, the fact is they still get it all from the book just depends on how much you follow the book vs society. religion only changes when the people push back and say things are not acceptable. women could vote before they could preach in a church same with black people

[@maralm5103]

@@cloudsstar First of all that's off topic the debate is about Christianity if it's dangerous not if it's true or not. And secondly that's not how prayer works.... God is an omniscient, omnipresent being, he isn't your puppet.

[@cloudsstar]

@@maralm5103 I don't think he is if he is all knowing like you say he knows what your prayer will be before asking also knows if he will do it or not so why ask when he should know your heart like the book says.

[@ea-tr1jh]

Did Aron literally have a meltdown during the Q+A???

[@ericbrown6203]

YUP! He did because he is an idiot

[@ericbrown6203]

@Mlk Steppu, Last King of Ugarit very true seems to be common whenever they lose

[@vileevil47gonzalez92]

@@ericbrown6203 who's and idiot? Aron?

[@kmtgoddess7793]

Where he killed this kid he didnt have an arguement

[@John-oq6fe]

Yep

[@joelrodriguez1232]

Ip won hands down!

[@crippledtalk]

A potato is more intelligent the Aron ra..

[@Irving3805]

If you've got evidence of that "bring it!!!"

[@joelrodriguez1232]

@@Irving3805 evidence of what?

[@MoxxMix]

You are wrong.

[@hazzah274]

@@MoxxMix bro aron got shutdown so bad he started to use emotions against science😂

[@davelikesbacon]

I am less than 6 minutes in and my jaw cannot get off the floor with the nonsensical crap coming out of Aaron's mouth

[@BibleIllustrated]

Likewise. I often feel like he learned history from Chick tracts...

[@davelikesbacon]

His argument that The jealous husband passage in numbers advocated abortion is laughable considering nowhere is a pregnancy even mentioned. I onow the NIV translates "thigh to rot" as miscarry or miscarriage, but this is not translate that way in any other translation nor is it even hinted at. Is he pro choice??? Cause it's entirely hypocritical to argue that Christianity is dangerous because it "supports" abortion in 1 passage then argue for abortion as women's rights.

[@BibleIllustrated]

@@davelikesbacon He is pro choice, but he accuses Christians of hipocrisy because of supposed allowed abortion of Leviticus - he doesn't claim Christians are dangerous because they support abortion.

[@davelikesbacon]

@@BibleIllustrated maybe I confused what he ment by bringing this point up. I'm assuming his argument about the Bible supporting abortion is a part of his argument for why Christianity is dangerous. Where is the argument in Leviticus that supposedly being used? Or am I conflating Leviticus and numbers with the jealous husband Passage? I've only heard two arguments from the OT being used, the jealous husband passage and the pregnant woman that gets knocked down by the two men fighting.

[@davelikesbacon]

I would also point out he's not necessarily right on Christians being hypocrites that get abortions. I only say this because if they beleive the bible approves of abortions and they agree then in their minds it's ok.. Now I'm not saying they are right in that interpretation, the bible is clear.. But it would only be hypocritical if they we're against abortion then got one....

[@PresbyterianPaladin]

Aaron Ra keeps saying "I haven't seen the evidence you cite and it is contrary to the evidence I have seen." Like it somehow means that IP's evidence is incorrect when really all it means is he's really deeply entrenched in cognitive bias. And Michael Nailed him on it by bringing up how in his debate with Ken Ham Aaron said that given how long Ham had been doing this he should have a better knowledge of the scientific literature. Then Mike points out he's been an atheist activist for 20 years and hasn't seen any of these studies Michael brings up. Pure Gold!!!

[@luisr5577]

IP's arguments were based on *scientific studies:* Objective data, nothing else. While, as IP said, Aron Ra conflated the issue "Are CHRISTIANS dangerous" with "Is Christianity dangerous". No one can say Aron Ra won this debate.

[@crippledtalk]

Aron Ra thinks he did

[@inspiringlysimple4042]

@Trolltician luckily IP will make a follow up stream on this where he debunks aron even more :D

[@micahwhitehead]

Trolltician just 1 simple thing... we don’t make any edits to the content. Just camera cuts. Notice how awkward the beginning of each lecture was? I didn’t cut anything because we don’t want there to be any questions or accusations of us cutting content in a bias way. When there is a cut you get a graphic and some tunes. If Ra were to make the accusation I would be able to provide the proof that it didn’t happen. Please let us know if you see that happen.

[@avivastudios2311]

Except the buttkissers on his channel.

[@gowdsake7103]

I can

[@ActuarialNinja]

1:56:33 If someone says "I win", they probably didn't...

[@Samuel-qc7kg]

I haven't got to that point on the debate and wondered which of them would say that. And wow, Aron sounds angry when saying he won. I'm curious as to how he got so angry on the debate.

[@cerealbowl7038]

Kent Hovind did the exact same thing. Michael Jones is BASED

[@JtheInsane]

Holy guacamole I could not even bring myself to listen to Aaron because of how ludicrous his opening statement was

[@PresbyterianPaladin]

I'm making my way through it, but painfully. The sheer amount of cringeworthy statements, historical revisionism, and flat out lies about scripture is mind boggling.

[@MoxxMix]

Which makes you an idiot.

[@MoxxMix]

@Paul Ellison When you learn something, you will know.

[@theheisenberger742]

Jacob Brown the irony

[@LuisSanchez-by1qn]

I almost stopped the video hearing him and his claims.

[@armchairintellectual5327]

Ra: How is Christianity not dangerous if you have to believe it without evidence? IP: You don't have to believe without evidence, and the evidence suggests Christianity isn't dangerous Ra: ...but how is Christianity not dangerous if you have to believe without evidence?

[@brycekennedy5935]

This legit sums up the entire debate

[@kmtgoddess7793]

U do have to believe it without fate cuz theres no proof

[@BassGoBomb]

You have to believe without evidence as there is none.

[@Samuel-qc7kg]

@@BassGoBomb Actually there is.

[@BassGoBomb]

Evidently there is dispute else we wouldn't spend time (and money) on debating it for hundreds of years. Please take the ussue up with Aron Ra, Hitch (should he ever come back), Dawkins, Krauss etc., We can't debate such a large issue here And, there is, there isn't strikes one as pointless. I refer again to the video and further refer to the hundreds of others and thousands of books... for either side. As usual the point re: empirical evidence is ignored - as in the above video.. making the whole thing pointless._

[@angru_arches]

Aaron "I've done this for over 20 years" Ra...

[@maralm5103]

1:31:20 christianity is the most bloody religion! What!! 😂 And he really compares Christianity with islam!! The Islamic conquer of India alone killed way way way more people than the crusades!! His ignorance about the history of the religions he claims to be an expert on is just killing me!!

[@lukesalazar9283]

This is true

[@ltakethefatlplease.3380]

Two muslims went on a mass shooting because of a cartoon Muhammad. If there was a cartoon making fun of jesus Christian's would just pray for those people. Also atheist have more blood on there hands then Christians. Adam Lanza was a atheist who went on a school shooting in a Kindergarten class. Eric ,and Dylan where also atheist who went on the Columbine Shooting. David Wood was a atheist, and his anti moral views caused to be a sociopath ,and he ended up trying to kill his dad.

[@kmtgoddess7793]

The bible was one of the biggest reasons for slavery

[@Tzimiskes3506]

@@kmtgoddess7793 which bible? if your so clever...

[@Tzimiskes3506]

@@kmtgoddess7793 no answer? thought so... Next time you claim such idiocies, read a history book...

[@DecKrash]

"Why didn't your God make the Bible easier to understand?" Why didn't you bother to actually educate yourself on Biblical hermeneutics? Maybe then you wouldn't be whining about how hard the Bible is to understand, and next time, won't get outclassed and have your Count Chocula-looking backside handed to you? This wasn't a debate. It was a slaughter.

[@asix9178]

HELLO?!? EVERYONE interprets the big book of confusion differently. THAT'S DANGEROUS!!!! Are you going to whip out a 'no true Scotsman' to dismiss Steve Anderson's Christianity? How about the NFIB? Christian slave owners in the USA that justified their owning other people as property BASED ON THE BOOK!!! Salem witch trials? The crusades? Get a grip. The mere fact that Christianity has the POTENTIAL for interpretation, IS DANGEROUS!!

[@LitoLochoss]

​@@asix9178Nah falls behind the personal man not the Bible. Start holding accountable the people doing it not the book

[@IWasOnceAFetus]

Conclusion: One word "pistis" can trigger Aron.

[@petery6432]

"The truth may set you free, but at first it might Pistis you off"

[@ScholarVisual]

Aron Ra was one of those guys who appeared to be smart in the beginning of the whole internet New Atheist movement. However after all the fanaticism has died down, and most atheists are more chill now, he comes off as a grumpy old man that has no idea what hes talking about.

[@ScholarVisual]

@Richard Waddington Him being a Grumpy old man is not evidence of anything. I was just making an observation.

[@ScholarVisual]

@Richard Waddington Ok, Now I will make a more substantive argument. And this isnt even an Atheist V Christian thing. There are even other atheists in this comment section who says Aron Ra lost this debate. The issue is Aron Ra failed to make a case on the actual subject matter. The debate wasn't about whether Christianity is true. The debate was about whether its dangerous. IP brought up scientific studies, where the data points to Christianity not being dangerous. But instead of dealing with the data, all Aron Ra kept saying is "You cant prove Christianity". That wasn't what the debate was about. So, these are the reasons hes coming off as a grumpy old man in this debate.

[@ScholarVisual]

@Richard Waddington His opening statements gave examples of violent crimes committed by religious people. What he failed to do is demonstrate whether it was the religion that was the cause of the action, or whether they were just violent people in general. Again, IP brought out the studies demonstrate causes to these actions. And then when IPs data was presented, Aron continued to side step the topic.

[@ScholarVisual]

@Richard Waddington You're doing the same thing Aron Ra did. Instead of dealing with the Data IP presented on Religiosity, you're giving me the effects without demonstrating the cause. Yes there are religious people that committed heinous crimes. But is it religiosity or personality?

[@ScholarVisual]

@Richard Waddington Now you're giving me anecdotal testimony instead dealing with the data. Anecdotes are terrible when it comes to demonstrating a trend. God doesn't need to exist for IP's argument to be true. If God is completely fictitious, Aron still would have to prove that religiosity is the cause of violence. And neither him nor you have demonstrated that. IP presented data that suggests the contrary. Now in order to make a case, you would have to bring other studies that counter his. Not anecdotes.

[@cysab]

Christian presents peer reviewed scientific studies. Atheist resorts to anecdotal evidence and twisted interpretation of biblical verses.

[@markuswmenezes]

Michael demolished Aron. Great debate! Props to both debaters

[@MoxxMix]

You are a moron!

[@hazzah274]

@@MoxxMix fk up

[@ea-tr1jh]

@@MoxxMix okay

[@supersmart671]

Michael Jones (IP) - young, restless and reasonable!! Thank God for this young man. May the God LORD continue to use you for HIS Glory.

[@UnityFromDiversity]

"The truth will set you free, but it will first piss you off." -Micheal Jones.

[@petery6432]

Even better, "the truth may set you free, but first it might Pistis you off."

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

@@petery6432 that is pure gold🤣🤣🤣🤣.

[@MZONE991]

This debate is as painful to watch as the Dilahunty vs IP debate IP is citing studies and evidence and data And his opponent is citing his opinion and personal experience

[@goranvuksa1220]

2:20:30 IP's reaction (and face). Priceless. I think that was the moment when he realized that he had entered a debate with an a person that is both extremely angry and extremely clueless (and that just happens to be the most dangerous type of person).

[@Young_Christian7]

"thank you for your question... 😳" - Michael Jones

[@poonberrymcfly3013]

Aron made some decent points, but ultimately crashed and burned by making all sorts of absurd claims without any supporting evidence at all. did a terrible job really, im not an atheist and I could do a better job.

[@skwills1629]

I'm a CVhristian and can make better Atheist arguments. AronRa is a joke. Only popular because he can speak as if he knows something.

[@MoxxMix]

Bullshit!

[@sharolynneholtz6207]

What would you say his decent points were?

[@Capybarrrraaaa]

Jones didn't do very well either. Not that I don't respect his adherence to statistics, but his side was that he was unconvinced because there is no statistical leaning. Where Aron was saying that he has multiple cases where it has been demonstrably dangerous. I think they were both tackling different sides of a very vague question. Jones was saying that there isn't any apparent bad statistically (even though he based a lot of it on "internal religiosity" which isn't the point), where Aron pointed to examples where it clear has been dangerous. It was 'it can and has been dangerous to some people Vs it doesn't seem dangerous overall'. They weren't really disagreeing on a lot of it, and both of their sides was right, more or less. I'd personally side with Aron here, only because he offered definitive situations and explanations instead of 'the statistics are too vague'.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

I’m not trying to be arrogant but I also think I could do a better job than this, and I would’ve wished that Michael specifically stayed on Christianity, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the studies that he cited, but I wish he would’ve stayed more specifically on Christianity.

[@vedinthorn]

Aron's approach to hermaneutics: step 1, strawman the definition of one or more words. Step 2, don't allow experts in the meanings of those words to correct you, step 3, ??? Look silly in a debate. Pistis means something like trust a lot more than it means belief without or in spite of the evidence.

[@Serendarainbow]

They also made up "you can't prove a negative" to avoid the burden of proof.

[@Serendarainbow]

Also, I'd be shocked if Aron even knows what hermeneutics is.

[@Serendarainbow]

@@colzbroeffectboss4619 I never said you can prove a negative. The vast majority of atheists throw that around like they know what there talking about. I don't need to prove the claim you made. You made the claim. How is it if you accuse me of something I need to prove it? You made the claim, you have the burden of proof. And what unfeasible claim are you referring to?

[@colzbroeffectboss4619]

@@Serendarainbow Exactly. So, just like it's absurd to accuse you of witch craft with zero evidence, it's equally absurd to accuse a God of existing without evidence and then flipping the burden of proof on to people who said "I don't believe you."

[@Serendarainbow]

@@colzbroeffectboss4619 who says there is no evidence of God if people believe in him for thousands of years? And who are you to determine what is and isn't considered evidence of God? What authority do you think you have?

[@Iffmeister]

1:41:51 - So Aron Ra FINALLY addresses "faith" and he claims saying faith is trust is an equivocation, after IP/Michael has proven and from the very New Testament and Classical Greek that the word "faith" or "pistis" LITERALLY means trust EVEN in the Christian context. wow. just wow. this is why Michael sounds a little mad in his questioning, because Aron keeps ignoring the evidence that he has given!

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

Even after Michael disproved and pointed out why many of those sources he’s using it or not good he still uses them to this day even three years after the debate.

[@redpillfreedom6692]

Because when it comes down to it, your religion requires you to believe things that you cannot prove. So in the end, faith is belief without evidence.

[@markmeyer1076]

The fundamental fault in Aron's position is that he does NOT use the linguistic definition and application of 'Faith' intended and used in the scriptures. He uses his own definition rather than the actual definition used to explain the scriptures by the writers of the Word.

[@jayjonah83]

He's been in tons of these conversations and I'm sure he's had to word it that way because many interlocutors like to focus heavily on semantics

[@danielboone8256]

I like IP, but he starts off a bit nervous and uneasy. Once he gets a lot of experience, maybe he’ll get some nice stage command.

[@JoshMcSwain]

I was there and thought the same thing. He started out really slow but really showed how prepared he was.

[@danielboone8256]

j h11 Yeah, I think you’re right. William Lane Craig and Ravi Zacharias and all them are getting old, I’m wondering if IP will take up the torch next.

[@lukesalazar9283]

@@danielboone8256 hopefully

[@vishaldavidmoses5880]

IP Hands down is one of the best apologists out there. I was so amazed when I initially saw him

[@jameybobamey7343]

@@danielboone8256 this comment did not age well

[@JojoBojob]

was this even a debate? Aron Ra didn't stand a chance

[@Glypt0d0n]

Just finished the whole debate. Undoubtedly, IP won this one.

[@Gatorbeaux]

Glypt0d0n easily. Flawless victory-

[@vedinthorn]

I want scientific proof that the number 2 is meaningful. And after that I want scientific proof that thoughts exist. Lastly, I would like scientific proof that the Mona Lisa is a well-made painting. Oh, wait, that's not what science does? Well, gee.

[@paulfoor7388]

Love it! Thank you for reminding everyone that every last one of us believe things that are not scientific. Science is not the end all, be all.

[@asix9178]

I want ANY -proof- evidence that your supposed 'god' thing exists. What's that? You have none? Well, gee.

[@asix9178]

@Rabbi Circumcistein _"or else what?"_ Or else I can't believe your invisible magicians exist. Are you not reading the replies to know the topic?

[@asix9178]

@Rabbi Circumcistein _"Who believes in invisible magicians exactly?"_ You _"And what makes you think anyone cares about what you believe?"_ HELLO!??!!! You asked a question, I answered. _"I legit couldn't be any less interested in you."_ Ahaha!!! Too funny. I 'legit' couldn't care less. You asked a question, I answered. _"This universe exists,"_ So? Is there a point you forgot to make? _"and that is a fact you really have to deal with."_ Ahahahahahaaa!!! The universe exists, so what? _"Try to change the topic if you like, but this universe exists"_ You're the idiot that is trying to change the topic, numb nuts. To refresh your memory, the topic is evidence 'god' things exist. Got any? Cricket, cricket, cricket......didn't think so.

[@Shapes_Quality_Control]

asix Well unless you want to deny causality that’s evidence.

[@Joel-bg3cf]

Aron’s so stuck in his definitions that he can’t even think.

[@Zeal_Faith_Humanity]

This atheist agrees.

[@HK007Filmworks]

When reach level 100 on Atheism, you turn into Aron Ra.

[@lalumierehuguenote]

20 years is worth nothing if you never opened the Bible to read Jesus saying "I speak in paraboles" and yet fint it hard to believe that the vinepress talk by Jesus is a metaphor for the sufferings of hell, which consist in eternal separation from the Good.

[@kimbanton4398]

_"20 years is worth nothing if you never opened the Bible to read Jesus saying "I speak in parables" and yet find it hard to believe that the vine press talk by Jesus is a metaphor for the sufferings of hell, which consist in eternal separation from the Good."_ OK! So whether it's an actual bloody vine press or not, the fact is that this IS a parable FOR ETERNAL SUFFERING after death, i.e. HELL! And 83% of all Christians believe that after death you'll go to hell! And we also know that this was used to make people fear to question their beliefs in the past and that this STILL does today! Why doesn't Jesus say it directly then? And it's a parable for WHAT EXACTLY?! It can't just only be "eternal separation from God". That's definitely NOT what is implied here! It really DOES talk about suffering! So we WILL be tortured for our disbelief! You can't just ignore that! But what will this hell look like according to you? Will it just be a dark eternal room, without any sounds where unbelievers like myself will just sit still forever? In that case, I'll just kill myself there or I'll knock myself out to lose consciousness forever. That would be a great place actually if you really think about it... no petty, megalomaniac, sexist, racist deity who stalks you every second or knows what you think... no required prayers for eternity...

[@lalumierehuguenote]

@@kimbanton4398 Thanks for your question. I try to put myself in your shoes and I think I understand why this is so appalling. After all, every Christians prays that people would repent and believe the Gospel so as not to go to hell. Now, what is Hell? First, hell is not an invention created to keep people in fear and keep them into your religion. Though such an hypothesis might make sense, it simply is not supported by the common experience of the believer. Maybe superstitious believers would prove the case, but mature believers believer not to avoid hell but to be with God. Actually the Bible is not so clear on exactly what happens in the afterlife, whether heaven or hell. It only indicates that hell is the place you don't want to end up, and heaven is the place where you want to end up. Heaven because God's love is there. Hell because God's love is not there. It's hard to imagine what hell would be like since it goes beyond what we can experience in this world, and yet maybe we can try to grasp it. In this world, God pours out his mercy and love on both the justs and the unjusts. In very simple things, like the sun rising, the water to give us drink and for plants to grow to give us food, etc... and in bigger things, by sustaining our very life, and making it possible to experience joy through our sense perception and having fellowship with others. Now all this is called common grace. Hell would be a "place" were there is no common grace. Where all those good things that God bestows upon all on Earth, is not present anymore. That's why in the parable of Lazarus, the situation of people who are in hell is described as "thirsty". This is in line with the Bible's imagery as God, especially in Jesus, being the living water who satiate our thirst. Now whether there will be water in hell I do not know. Actually there is no way to know what hell consists of/in. We can only know what it does not consist of: namely, all the good things that we can experience here which result from God's common grace (even though we might use those things in sinful ways, there are not sin intrinsically , like sex is good, but can be used in unholy ways...) There won't be someone torturing people in hell. Hell is more like psychological torments. It is self inflicted. People who are in hell want to be there. There is a hardening of the heart which make it so that even though it will become more apparent to them that Christ is Lord, they will still hate him. Eventually, the winepress of God's wrath might not even refer to the future judgement. It might simply be a type. Some people suggest that the prophecies written in the book of Revelation were fulfilled in 70AD, where the ethnic state of Israel was destroyed by the Roman, culminating in the destruction of Jerusalem (there were more battles afterwards, notably Masada in 73). "And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress" it would be an imagery for God's judgement upon Israel in 70AD and there status as covenant members being removed for their unbelief. This is a whole other discussion (you can see some more here : readingacts.com/2020/07/06/what-is-the-winepress-of-gods-wrath-revelation-1417-20/).

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

I hate when people say things like I’ve read the entire Bible, OK but you clearly don’t understand it I don’t care if you’ve read it, I care if you understand it, because if you’ve read something and don’t understand it then read it again and actually try to understand it, there’s so many movies I’ve seen but I don’t get the first time I watch them, to name a few (blade runner), (inception), (Brazil), (2001 a space Odyssey),and( I’m thinking of ending things), just to name a few.

[@VierthalerStudios]

This is why Michael is one of my favorite apologetics. Him and John Lennox are my two top favorites. In no particular order.

[@drummerboy69n]

Whaddo you meme?? also did a response video to this debate.

[@VierthalerStudios]

drummerboy69n I really like him, too.

[@jesussotelo4775]

Also Frank Turek William Lane Craig Ravi zacharias And J Warner Wallace

[@angeliquaserenity5009]

Regarding NTS (No True Scotsman)- The Transwoman's criticism of NTS won't work here. Her argument is almost analogous to arguing that No True Capitalist would endorse Price Controls violates NTS. NTS has to do with emulating the teachings and life of Jesus. Jesus never taught hatred or oppression. Jesus hung out with what was called the "worse of the worse" of society such as the Lepers and the Prostitutes and did not cast them from his presence. Also Scripture teaches that if families cast other family members out of their household, they are worse than an unbeliever (I Tim 5:8). If you don't follow the teachings of Jesus by loving those who sin, then you are not truly Christian.

[@kieran296]

Well done IP! Aron & Atheist Republic, 2012 called it wants its meme back.

[@danpaulisbitski]

Aron the science denier!

[@danielomitted1867]

Everything Aron says can be boiled down to basically "I dont like it therefore its bad". I know people who believe in aliens. I dont think theyre dangerous for it.

[@brat-b8h]

Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.

[@danielomitted1867]

@@brat-b8h get an original thought please.

[@brat-b8h]

@@danielomitted1867 you said it wasn't dangerous. but in fact religion is very much dangerous and negatively affects science, technology, education, crime rates, divorce rates, etc.

[@brat-b8h]

@@danielomitted1867 As for your alien spiel, have you never heard of Heaven's Gate ?

[@danielomitted1867]

@@brat-b8h and how did you figure that out

[@gatolf2]

Aron can’t actually be serious with that opening right? His entire opening is his own made up version of Christianity that he then labels evil lmao.

[@gatolf2]

@Richard Waddington no decent apologist takes any of that guys arguments seriously. He’s a walking conglomerate of KZbin atheist comments.

[@TrevorWeissman]

I do agree with Aron when it comes to a limited government and we shouldn't force people to make choices they don't want (abortion is my only exception) and I'm *conservative* that's why WE HAVE the freedom of Religion

[@PresbyterianPaladin]

Holy smokes, IP just absolutely decimated Aaron Ra. Good God that was brutal!!!

[@billwright8649]

What were you watching. Aron crushed that delusional kid.

[@Samuel-qc7kg]

@@kimbanton4398 Dude, asking for studies or proof of causation and not correlation is what we should be doing. And we know some these people like to misrepresent the bible to do things that may harm others. For example, me saying that feminism and asians are bad because an asian feminist came to hit me in the face for being a man is just plainly wrong. (I'll save the explanation because I think it is pretty obvious why).

[@IWasOnceAFetus]

@@billwright8649 that's your bias talking. 😅

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

@@kimbanton4398 I honestly don’t know where to even begin I find acommon incredibly dishonest, like did you even watch the debate Michael literally cited multiple studies, all Aron Ra did was make ridiculous assertions.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

@Richard Waddington dude you are so blatantly biased that he refused to actually look at this honestly, there’s no way you could look at this honestly and actually come to that conclusion dude get your head out of your ass, all Aron does strawman and misrepresent, basically his argument is people who claim to be Christians have done bad things therefore Christianity is dangerous, Michael stated multiple studies to back up his claim that Christianity is not dangerous he cited multiple sources what does Aron have, he literally keeps asserting that faith is believing something about evidence and Michael absolutely obliterated him on that point.Aron claims that the Nazis were Christians social movement, that is such a retarded utterly idiotic claim, first of all the Nazis we’re not a Christian organization by any means, they religion was Nazism, they were motivated by nazism not Christianity, I mean how delusional do you have to be to believe the Nazis were Christians, they were literally against the Jews, I mean like anti-Jew Christian yeah but that makes sense that that makes a lot of sense, there’s no evidence Hitler was a Christian, there’s no evidence he was atheist either, he wasn’t fired by people like Spinoza and Friedrich Nietzsche, so many historians have came to the conclusion that he was pantheist, even if the Nazis did claim to be Christians and they weren’t explicitly Christian organization even though they weren’t in literally a contradiction, so what look these people did evil things in the name of Christianity and they claim to be Christians therefore Christianity is bad, that was in his opening statement, dude get your head out of the sand, well first get your head out of your ass because it’s really far up, and then get your head out of the sand.

[@karlalu6036]

Using Kenneth Copland as an example for christianity is kind of low

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

Using Hitler is an example of Christianity is on a whole other level of low.

[@GreenMegaEthan]

​@@pleaseenteraname1103Hey I seen you before

[@Sm64wii]

HUGE W for inspiring philosophy one of my favorite Christian creators and by far the best debater I’ve seen.

[@drengibami5204]

Aron Ra constantly says that faith is “any belief that is not supported by evidence”. Michael has shown that intrinsic religiosity has been tied to positive social outcomes through research of meta-analyses that have been peer-reviewed. Aron’s only argument against this is either from personal experience, other flawed studies, or simply saying “there are Christians who have done bad things because of their beliefs” as if Christian Fundamentalism is the only form of Christianity. Michael has the evidence that religion isn’t always tied to bad moral behavior and that intrinsic religiosity is beneficial for people. Yet Aron continuously denies it in favor of his beliefs. How ironic.

[@lukostello]

Ill have to look up how theae studies determined whether people are intrinsically religious. It is my suspicion that it could be substituted with "morally considerate" and could potentially be used to describe some atheists as well making it a poorly labeled phenomenon

[@WhatsTheTakeaway]

@@lukostello Well the debate was "Is Christianity dangerous". Aron Ra failed in my opinion to show that. His argument from personal incredulity was disappointing.

[@lukostello]

@@WhatsTheTakeaway I don't think citing a history of bloodshed and modern usages of the christian faith to justify malicious action constitutes as personal incredulity

[@inspiringlysimple4042]

@@lukostello wrong those blood sheds aron cited where mostly ever justified or actually not of religious intent according to Encyclopedia we know that only 7% of all wars in History where trully caused by Religion BTW is the debate not WETHEVER chrsitians are dangerous sicne the bible says they can be IT IS WETHEVER CHRISTIANITY IS DANGERIOUS the studys IP cited are meta anylsis and peer reviewd studys that are factually published in Journals that are highly reliable thinking that he is wrong or got something wrong is highly unlikely and not only not backed up by any sort of proof whatsoever SO SHOW PROOF THAT THE STUDYS ARE WRONG OR FUCK OFF YOU ANTI SCIENTIFIC CUCK no one cares About you or arons personal experiences

[@inspiringlysimple4042]

@@lukostello btw does the Encyclopedia admitted that Islam was half of the 7% and then you Need to add also the other horrible pagan religions and Need to calculate wehtever some religious wars werent actually justified like the crusades

[@jaybird1596]

I can reason like Aron: My experience of Christianity over the last 27 years has been largely positive and I’ve had conversations with Christians on nearly a daily basis. Does this therefore mean Christianity as a whole is not dangerous? I think I’ll stick with IP on this one and look to the meta-analysis versus my personal experience.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

Exactly.

[@thomasecker9405]

Same! Things done by an extreme minority do not make the whole of a community of believers bad. It would be a non sequitur to think that it does.

[@DrVarner]

Aron Ra at 1:12 said, in reference to Jesus discussing faith (the mountain/mustard seed), that “it’s an impossible standard.” Yes, sir it is an impossible standard and thus the need for Jesus Christ. If only Aron Ra would turn away from his own pride and turn to Christ in humility... Matt was surgical in his arguments and stayed on topic better than anyone I’ve seen in a debate. He was wise to present research and data rather than personal emotional arguments.

[@eenkjet]

Let the Ra-isms begin! What he doesn't posses in logic, he makes up for in beard-osity.

[@KronosSion]

You went to seminary right? (you and I know eachother on facebook) How much does Aron get wrong?

[@RonRoyGosselin]

@@KronosSion Just about everything.

[@thecultofpurereason2901]

Aron Ra was pretty disappointing. But the babes there were not disapointing.

[@eenkjet]

@@KronosSion (first about Ra) Aron's weakness is his very "a-theism" not being a positive claim. His theistic position is irreligious agnosticism by philosophical standards. His "Bring it. You ain't got it. I win." @1:56:15 bravado is a category error conflating a "win" for 'A''-theism via his unfulfilled demand for scientific evidence for Christianity ala Yahweh. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Logically, why would anyone approach Christianity without first having a defensible theistic position? Having a strong theistic justification would set a less illogical standard for fideistic Christianity. If follows similarly why would anyone spend 20 years of their life as an anti-Christian evangelist without a justification for their own a-theism. (Ra holds the colloquial New Atheist "lack of belief" aka "lack-theist" position which is the logical equivalent of agnosticism.) The problem may be Ra is metaphysically illiterate. I've heard him make some very untenable pairings with direct realism and time and God IN that time. It's a real mess. I don't think he understands the fundamentals of cosmology/spacetime and its ontological limitations. Aron Ra an atheist torch-bearer that does not have a rebuttal for philosophical theism or theistic naturalism (I'm a philosophical panentheist, OSR-1) and holds to philosophical agnosticism while claiming a-theism. It's a pretty low bar to maintain.

[@eenkjet]

@@KronosSion As for his tying the Law of Moses TO Christianity, I'll admit the OT is a rough ethical ride by human standards. There's a genetic fallacy though that many a-theist evangelists make using Matthew 5 to support their "Mosaic law extends until today" claim. (see below) Matthew 5:18-19 (explanation) Matthew 5 must be read completely to be juxtaposed against Paulinian. Without the full reading the comparison makes no sense. The chapter starts with Jesus describing those that are pure and meek and merciful etc will inherit the kingdom of God. This is a non-law or "law of the spirit" type appeasing God, similar to Paulinian (Romans 2:14-15). He then compares the Beatitudes to an additional pathway to righteousness, "perfection". In order to accomplish salvation through the law, you'll need to be more lawful than the teacher of the law (the Sanhedrim) and more precise than the most legally strict sect (the Pharisees). Note he's brought up one group that negate/abuses the letter and another that punishes by the letter. He says anyone that can teach (correctly, unlike the Sanhedrin) and practice (the Pharisee) the law would be "called great" in the kingdom of heaven. But how does Jesus want the law "performed"? Loosely? No, he's admonished the Sanhedrin. Strictly? No, he's admonished the Pharisee. Does he feel anyone can perform it to the standards he's about to set. AND is Jesus "rewriting the law" in his next refining of the law? Mt. 5:21 "You have heard" is a phrase meaning "this is what's taught". Jesus redefines the law, raising the bar to an impossible feat of purity and sinlessness. Example being 'if you call someone a fool, you are in danger of hell fire!" He's basically saying, even the letter of the law won't do, intent, ideation, the subconscious, the heart (see the Beatitudes) is what judges you and frees you, not the law, but the motive of the doer of the law (as seen in all his teachings). 2Cor3:6 "who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament - not of the letter, but of the Spirit; for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life." The chapter ends in a very perplexing verse Mt.5:48 "Be perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect." The chapter is about love and beauty and the impossibility of the law having any saving power. That love perfects and we will be judged not by the law but by our heart. Which mirrors Paulinian:: 1 Corinthians 13: "and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing." ___ 31 “The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. 33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds and WRITE IT ON THEIR HEARTS. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the LORD. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.” Jesus famous words “it is finished” the Greek being tetelestai, an accounting term that means “paid in full.” All laws of sacrifice are now paid. The New Covenant has begun. One must account for one’s sin through their knowing God or, of course, keep the letter to the hyper-standard set in Mt 5.

[@GR-dk5ju]

John 3:16-17 ESV For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

[@sgorgardr227]

8. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. (1 John 4:8) 4. Love suffereth long, (and) is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5. doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil; 6. rejoiceth not in unrighteousness, but rejoiceth with the truth; 7. beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8. Love never faileth... (1 Corinthians 13:4-8) Basically not a word of truth, and tons of exaggerations.

[@tylergeffeney9575]

Aron literally cant hear anything that goes against his assumptions.

[@gospelbass7]

Aron Ra really should be more objective and i have to admit, Aron Ra tries to play rational, but then rejects science on this topic. On the other hand i understand Aron Ra's scepticism. Still on this case his scepticism doesnt help if science is not giving evidence for it

[@Mr.Truxton]

Nice to see you here.

[@whatsinaname691]

His skepticism leads to really stupid conclusions that would reject literally any normative claim because those are technically not provable with “evidence.”

[@zereimu]

It's amazing how almost everything Aron Ra said in his intro is completely wrong, full of attribution errors and false equivalencies on every sentence. Michael Jones was extremely patient with the internet atheist. As I told AronRa when one day he responded to me, your stance on the available evidence and refusal to acknowledge it, nor your personal anecdotes have any bearing on the consensus of academia on the definition of the word Pistis in light of all evidence for it's use both in Greek and general Biblical context. He then proceeded to link to his website where he made the exact same poor arguments saying that "debunks" scholars. Imagine saying you debunked the dictionary because you disagree with the definition on irrelevant grounds, that is basically Aron's argument.

[@bham7bh]

Michael Jones is strong. Keep it up!

[@crippledtalk]

15:00-15:03 can't believe he made a point some of us can actually agree on ..but it's still a strawman..meh 16:27-16-29 pot meet kettle 28:18 Micheal comes out swinging Arron Ra needs to stay at the kids table

[@robred19]

IP has not actually addressed the points raised by Aron Ra, who pointed out the numerous conflicts, misery and destruction that Christianity has wrought on world history. IP deflected with great effect. When Aron shouldve focused on the historicity of Christianity. Its sure ground. As the evidence of harm Christianity is associated with, is pretty conclusive. From the Crusades, to the Thirty Years War, from the persecution of scientists (think Galileo) to the Church in the time of 'enlightenment', who opposed the forces of reason from the 18th century to (arguably) now. Denying rights, promoting reaction and using its resources to hinder the development and progress of people in terms of welfare, education, services and cohesion, as the Church moves heaven and earth to maintain its position.

[@crazyanimeloveable]

What a waste.. 20 years of "research" 😂

[@amcovered]

🤣

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

What you forgot intellectual extensive research 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣.

[@ddannydaniel3340]

Aron-Evidence is a body of facts that are positively indicative of or exclusively concordant with a given proposition... Is Christianity dangerous? Aron- (anecdote) *facepalm

[@brothapipp]

That was the whole debate. I think these popstar atheists come thinking, welp, another christian to slay with his own sword...and then when that christian picks up the secular sword of truth and dual wields....they get caught off balance and the second you think in a live debate, whoops, its all over.

[@ddannydaniel3340]

@@brothapipp Exactly, All aron did was make a lot of useless claims and express himself.

[@cloudsstar]

@@brothapipp sword of truth yet you cant take 5 Christians and have them agree on what the book says

[@brothapipp]

@@cloudsstar you act as if any 5 people disagree on any information, the information becomes invalid. Thought police much? Look at some other stories from history. Some people paint Woodrow Wilson as a hero of civil liberties and govt. Others paint him as the anti-christ. Even math has it's dark horse Godel with his incompleteness theorem. If we aren't allowed to think for ourselves and interpret scripture at will, how can we even claim to have free will?

[@cloudsstar]

@@brothapipp never said anything like that all im saying how is it truth if nobody knows what it means outside of the few things that most of them agree on. like murder is it wrong because god says so or is it wrong even if god commands it done. some will say its wrong because god says so others will be ok if god told them to kill somebody

[@nokiaarabicringtone1418]

The face of Michael when a random guy showed up and started debating Aron on the validity of anarchism was just fenomenal

[@RonRoyGosselin]

That guy looks like he smells as bad as his arguments

[@brothapipp]

really? grow up.

[@RonRoyGosselin]

@@brothapipp Yes, really. 😂😂😂

[@DieSchiss]

Yeah... no. Hitler was only raised catholic, but in his book he said something along the lines of "Christianity was invented by Jews to control yada yada yada." He was more of a pagan in his later years - specifically German pagan gods as they "better embodies the strength amd warrior spirit of the Germanic people."

[@jameswright...]

Hitler was a creationist Christian, his hate for the Jews was entirely religious according to his own words in his book. His 1st deals that gained him power was with the Catholic Church and Lutheran and both celebrated his birthday from the pulpit. All sides honoured all deals until the end. To join the nazis you pledged to god then Hitler, it said with god on our sides on the uniform, god one god not multiple gods. Hitler was a creationist Christian.

[@completestrangeronline7284]

We see from the conversion of Saul of Tarsus that Christianity is all about changing people from raging hate to compassion and love for Christ and for others. The greatest commandment is to love God with every fiber of your being and to love your neighbor as yourself, and Aron misses this most fundamental point. In a way, Aron kind of reminds me of Saul of Tarsus, before his Damascus Road experience. Both of them were hell-bent on trying to destroy Christianity, both of them misunderstood Christianity and painted it with a broad brush, both of them were in a rush to judgment. The great irony is that it is not Christianity that is dangerous, it is those who want to destroy it who are “dangerous.”All those who act out of ignorance and anger and hostility, all those who are darkened in their understanding, those are the dangerous ones.

[@Capybarrrraaaa]

Aron made a good point that nobody addresses here. We need evidence to believe what we do, many like I and Aron require it and cannot choose to believe without it. The Bible and the natural world doesn't offer evidence for god, especially the Christian god. At very least, it has not offered it to us in a convincing way. So we don't believe, we are being honest here. The Bible, Deuteronomy 13:6 onward, says that the penalty for apostasy is death. Unmerciful killing for disbelief. That is the Christian belief, because it's in the Bible, I'm sure we can agree. And I think we can also agree than it's rather dangerous to murder someone. The only way around this is to agree that it is not dangerous to kill a non-believer. Jones even aknowleged this and tried to back-pedal out the whole discussion, jumping away from Christianity back to vague religiosity as a whole which wasn't the point of the talk.

[@Samuel-qc7kg]

@@Capybarrrraaaa Man, you can see Michael giving evidence in his channel. You can search debates where he argues the existence of God, this is not one of them. You might even find responses to some of the misrepresentations you made (like your Deuteronomy 13 paragraph).

[@Capybarrrraaaa]

​@@Samuel-qc7kg " If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death" Sorry, am I misunderstanding what that's saying? Arguing that Christianity isn't dangerous is a massive up-hill battle, because you need to dismiss the absolutely massive amounts of current harm it's causing. Ask a gay or trans person, they'll be able to show enough of the pain and danger themselves. When 50% of America opposes their civil rights directly on religious grounds, one cannot claim it's not dangerous. That's 50% against at least 5% of the population.

[@x-popone6817]

@@Capybarrrraaaa 1. Since when are rules for ancient Israel universal rules for all time? 2. Laws in the Old Testament weren't laws in the modern sense. They weren't as strictly imposed and were many times understood as judicial wisdom, rather than absolute laws. 3. This verse isn't even about apostasy in general. It's about enticing other people into apostasy.

[@Capybarrrraaaa]

@@x-popone6817 1. I don't even think they were applicable at the time. 2. So what? They're used to justify bullshit. Call them 'not applicable' if you want, but any defence of a biblical perspective is just as pathetic and unsubstantiated. If you're in a position to deny reality as hard as is required to believe the Bible's claims, then your position can get you anywhere. 3. Some people interpret it that way, some don't. Applying logic to the Bible is hypocritical. To get to the Bible, you have to forgo logic to begin with. You have my respect if you don't believe the dangerous shit, but that doesn't make the position logical or non-volatile.

[@christopherpizzimenti6573]

Aron: “I can’t believe something unless it is supported by evidence.” Me: well that’s a lie because your definition of faith has been proven to be wrong plenty of times, yet you think you’re right

[@gowdsake7103]

Really ? do expand that ! Faith is the acceptance of an idea WITHOUT evidence

[@christopherpizzimenti6573]

@@gowdsake7103 so you don't have faith that when you're driving over a hill the person on the other side is driving in their lane? You don't have faith that the sun is going to come up the next day bc you don't know if that's gonna happen until it comes up the next morning? Faith isn't believing something without evidence faith is the belief in something knowing that there is evidence but not being able to know if UT us going to keep happening. Arons definition of faith is wrong completely. There is no life without any faith at all. It doesn't have to be faith in a God or gods

[@oolooo]

Aaron obssesively uses his own personal expirience as a source of Authoritative information .By that metric , my expirience hearing him demonstrates that all Atheists are very angry at any degree of resistance to them and can not help but see themselves as sources of Total Authority , even to the point of trying to rewrite history and definitions (The meaning of Faith argument) .

[@DavidEBowyerJr.]

IP demolished AR.

[@ionutdinchitila1663]

AR was bad here

[@jarrodmaston2621]

At 2:23 Aron says we mock ideas, not people. Rewind to his intro and listen to his mocking of how people he disagrees with speak.

[@donaldmurray4350]

The fat, pissed off atheist, is a well practiced sophist, but hardly refined. He is a fine TRANS activist, but that's as far as his talent takes him. Oh yeah, he probably is also an advocate for Islamic ritually slaughtered animals. Keep quoting the old testament dear sir. Ve3ry effective...

[@crippledtalk]

Lol@fat pissed off atheist

[@crippledtalk]

@Nigel Butt all those words to say nothing..hmm?!

[@Cry4Tanelorn]

Yeah, Michael wiped the floor with Aron

[@brandonroot7848]

is it bad if IP can site Arons sources better than he can?

[@detrean]

IP did well here but he made a huge mistake in Q and A. He ceded the moral high ground. He bent the knee to a progressive moral framework and so validated that new and ascendant religion. He should have affirmed God and stated plainly that natural law in accordance with biblical morality is True. When the trans person challenged him he should have stated that they are due respect, love, and kindness but that their behavior goes against what is good can never be good.

[@asix9178]

_"their behavior goes against what is good..."_ Thank you for demonstrating the danger of your religion.

[@detrean]

@@asix9178 What is dangerous about wanting the best for people? That is what goodness is The only way that would be a problem is if someone wants evil but thinks they want good. Then they can and have done many terrible things in the name of that. Based on your quote and reaction I'll bet you are someone that suffers from such a condition.

[@detrean]

@@asix9178 you mad bro?

[@cooperkarp5165]

@@detrean oh, he's definitely mad 😂

[@ACVoaMHeraldforTheKING]

To all Christians. Aron is revealing the true hypocrisy of those who claim to be followers of Christ but live as sinners. Live your life in the power of the Spirit, and not a sinner, to be a witness not only to those who say they follow Christ and are hypocrites, but also to people like Aron Ra. Christians are NOT supposed to be hypocrites, it gives atheists a false excuse to deny Christ. Don't be a stumbling block to unbelievers. Be the light of the world Christ called you to be in Him

[@avivastudios2311]

This is one of the best comments.

[@Lurkingdolphin]

You are really smart . Amen brother let’s love our neighbours always and love God most importantly of course. Let’s serve others .

[@eatfrenchtoast]

What is more ethical, pursuit of truth or protection of allegiance to your church?

[@ACVoaMHeraldforTheKING]

@@eatfrenchtoast That's an irrelevant question. Because in the pursuit of truth, You realize what the true church is. And not a religious one... I assume that by church you mean a religious organization? But in the Bible, the church is the body of Christ. And it's God who protects and defends that not me. There are many in America and in the world that claim to be followers of Jesus and are actually hypocrites walking in wickedness There is so much more false Christianity than there is genuine biblical followers of Christ. So you really have to look in the Bible to see what a genuine Christian looks like according to Jesus' own words.

[@TheBrunarr]

Watching this is torture, nothing Ra says is correct

[@kmtgoddess7793]

Everything ra says is correct the bible supports rape and slavery theres nothing to talk about here

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

@@kmtgoddess7793 🤣🤣🤣. Evidence please.

[@misterstudentloan2615]

ARONRA DESTROYED

[@inspiringlysimple4042]

basically yep

[@utopiabuster]

Great job IP! I would be kind in describing AronFreakingRa as "intellectually shallow", (a common trait among many yt atheist), but what is likely more apt a description in his case is "nincompoop". From the onset of his opening speech Ra makes several critical mischaracterizations. For example, in stating that Hitler ordered the burning of books, particularly Darwin's "Origin". The fact of the matter is that Hitler never ordered the burning of any books. The book burnings were ceremonious undertakings orchestrated by German students, "Deutsche Studentenschaft" in the 1930's. Ever since Hitler was denied entry into the Fine Arts Academy at Vienna he despised academics and intellectuals so his education policy for German youth emphasized physical activities over academics. Hence the book burning ceremonies organized by student union groups. Typical of dogmatic evolutionist, Ra persistently expresses a water downed version of the relationships between Darwin, Haeckel and Huxley and their cooperative consent of eugenics and what Darwinism contributed to eugenic thought. It seems no one has ever actually read "Origin of Species by Natural Selection: and the Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life" and the rhetorical devices Darwin used in order to get "White" European gentry to accept his theory. Specifically, an "appeal to emotion" in this case "vanity". It was Francis Bacon, the father of empiricism, who developed the art of "scientific rhetoric", who was one of Darwin's intellectual mentors. "Origin" is replete with theological inferences or philosophical musings calling on the imagination to excite "possibilities" rather than rigorous scientific methodologies used as an appeal to theological sensibilities of the day. In effect Darwin argues more for "naturalism" than what we understand evolution to be today. I bring this up since Ra repeatedly calls upon scientific "proofs" while providing none of his own. He repeatedly calls upon his own experiences to make arguments. In effect appeals to emotion. Just like Darwin does in "Origin", evoking false narratives where Hitler is referenced to boot. I could go on refuting each and every one of Ra's points especially where he states Christianity is the cause of more death than anything else, and will do so if challenged. Once again IP does a great job and, quite frankly, made AronFreakingRa look like a schoolboy. Peace.

[@utopiabuster]

@TheCosmicWarrior, In mind, not body. (wink)

[@MoxxMix]

You are stupid. And I am sure this is not the first time you are hearing this.

[@utopiabuster]

@@MoxxMix , Actually it's not. Typically, as you demonstrate, from insignificant people who really don't matter.

[@hazzah274]

@@MoxxMix shut up fam

[@MoxxMix]

@@hazzah274 Yeah, you wish an it will happened hahahahahahahahha

[@PopulusVultDecipi]

At the 1:07 mark. Michael picked up straight away what I did - Aron has no clue what the debate topic is and is now grasping at straws. Sad.

[@nathanwhite704]

"Anti-abortion bills are not pro-life they're anti-women" Women last I checked don't have two hearts, two heads, or four arms. What grows in them is a separate and unique person. "the crime rate is higher in regions that are predominantly Christian" Chicago, Detroit, New York, Portland. All far left anti-christian strongholds and have been for decades.

[@theletterm1787]

Anti-christian but still with more than 50% population of Christians. Also since you don't believe in bodily autonomy, you should give away your kidney to someone in need.

[@JaredLB1990]

I love how Aron basically said everything good in America was created by secularist, and everything bad in America, like slavery and misogyny, were created by Christian's. Neglecting the fact that America was founded as a Christian Nation, and our Founders, like Washington and Jefferson, said many times how they wished they could have abolished slavery, but were unable to, or even mention how there were some pretty tough women back then who actually helped fight in many battles along side the Founders. It's a shame.

[@misterauctor7353]

Aron's claim around 8:00 is funny.

[@ZhangK71]

Dude... Jefferson was a staunch secularist and said some pretty religiously un-kosher things in his writings. Do you even read history beyond the sugarcoated CliffNotes version they teach us in middle school? Also, just because the Founding Fathers were Christian men - which 99% of ethnic Europeans were at the time... - doesn't prove anything about how their establishment of the country was religiously or divinely caused. Damn near every athletic competition or event is sponsored by a soft-drink or junk-food brand these days - does that mean McDonald's fries and Dr. Peppers are what's helping the athletes compete?

[@karlalu6036]

Aron Ra is more dogmatic than any preacher i have ever heard

[@PopulusVultDecipi]

1:14 mark. Aron thinks his 2019 Dictionary definition of 'faith' is the standard by which we judge the same word used over 2,000 years ago; ignoring it's etymology... even after Michael explained what the word meant 2,000 years ago. Yikes!

[@iDealaeDi]

1:26:44 what the heck was that noise that came out of Aron in the middle of his sentence? Lol. A demon escaped him. Or a beer burp.

[@alpinebandages3660]

What was that? Lol

[@martinecheverria5968]

HAHAHA

[@umerlovespeace]

Micheal giving aron a taste of his own medicine! Much appreciation to Micheal!

[@budd2nd]

Any beliefs that require you to ignore the scientific explanations is not worth holding. I don’t want tall tales, I want facts, no matter how difficult those facts might be. Hard facts provide a solid foundation on which to build a life.

[@misterauctor7353]

8:00 - 8:08 Actually, the founding fathers founded this country, not on secular values, but Christian values. 9:28 - 9:40 Constantine did not make Christianity the official religion of the empire.

[@PopulusVultDecipi]

Ultimately the debate is a moral claim. Though Aron, at best, showed people are dangerous, the debate was lost from the beginning as he had no objective standard to base his claim.