Is Civ 4 Still Best? | 2024 Retrospective & Prepare For Civ 7

[@GamerZakh]

This video has been through KZbin hell and back! It's back thanks to you, full story below. Also, if you haven't got it, you can get it on GOG using this referral link to support: www.gog.com/en/game/sid_meiers_civilization_iv_the_complete_edition Thank you! Full story: So this video has gone on a journey. First it got around 30-40 copyright claims because apparently Civ 4's music from the Medieval Era onwards uses classical stuff almost exclusively. Although the songs are in the public domain, if any orchestra or band does a cover, KZbin can't tell the difference between the modern recordings and what's royalty free. THEN! KZbin manually demonetised this video because they found "extreme profanity"... They initially gave the timecode of me saying "If I could make that point any clearer let me know". This obviously had no profanity, so I appealed and they gave a new timecode of me saying "Samarkand", the historical city, but the system picked up the 'kand' part as a swear word as you could see on the subtitle file where it writes underscores instead of the word, and on "manual review" KZbin informed me that the 'internal team' confirmed that it was "extreme profanity". I made a video explaining the situation here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/noaxeHeLmsh8p5I which led a few of you to see if they had other channels they could bug KZbin about the issue. I was prepared to delete this video and re-upload it but whatever you did worked because suddenly, one morning, I checked the video and it was remonetised. I did not get any communication about this change in decision. No email, no notification, nothing. It was "manually confirmed" to be demonetised for "extreme profanity" one day, then "manually confirmed" to be suitable for all advertisers the next. As there are no more issues left on this video it is now public and viewable, but it's kind of messy and damaged now, which I guess is just the state it has to exist. Hope you enjoyed this journey and do enjoy the video.

[@gerriejordaan8385]

Sorry for missing your previous videos. Been super busy. Growing up, I only ever played Civilization 2 despite its faults as I liked its music, the council and the challenge. Was pretty nostalgic. Will watch the videos soon.

[@elfelganor]

I actually have never played civ 4. For me, it actually went civ 3, civ 5, and now, I'm very curious about civ 7.

[@timpeterjensen2364]

Civ 4 is still my favorites together with 1 (those two mostly for nostagial, 6 is the best one so far)

[@earlofdoncaster5018]

When Civ4 came out I never went back to Civ3. Can't say the same for Civs 5&6.

[@FatTassieWombat]

The Best Civ game 🙂. I remember being broke and saving up for this game for 6 months. When I finally got it I played it for years, great times

[@adammarette2491]

Yes, civ 4 is still the GOAT

[@McHobotheBobo]

The GOAT

[@EB-bl6cc]

idk, I find civ 4's early game incredibly boring compared to 5 and 6. But it does have some nice things

[@IngoGarza]

Civ 4 is my high-school sweetheart. It might not be the best, but it was my first love. I still think 5 is the best. I can understand why people would enjoy civ 6 but it never really got me hooked.

[@jaythompson5102]

I felt by not having unit stacking it ended a lot of epic encounters. In Civ 4 I once got attacked by Catherine the Great who had a stack of over 110 horsemen. I still remember that whereas in Civ 5 there was really nothing comparable.

[@danyoutube7491]

Neither Civ 5 nor Civ 6 feel like true Civ games to me. I've been playing since Civ 1 and the Civ 5 experience was the first time I felt that way (obviously every edition takes some getting used to, but this was different). That said I eventually enjoyed Civ 5 somewhat without getting really thrilled by it, I enjoyed Civ 6 a bit but less than 5. I am not keen on the graphical style of Civ 7 but prefer the way it looks to Civ 6, and I quite like the direction they are going with the gameplay. Civ 4, when I first tried it, felt both off putting and impressive with its fancy new graphics (compared to Civ 3's). I think I bought all the expansions for Civ 4, and there were some great mods too. I haven't gone back to it since 2010 because I think I'd be out of touch with what the best patches and mods to install would be, though I've replayed the first three games in the series quite a bit. Maybe it's time to return to Civ 4! It was certainly a big departure from Civ 3 aesthetically and in many gameplay elements.

[@benza8946]

Civ 6 biggest problem for me really is the art style, looks like a f2p sell off mobile phone like clash of clans... Impossible to get used to it. Civ 5 my fav too and civ 4 very good as well, good memories

[@illegalsmirf]

i know what you mean, those erections you got as a high school lad will never be surprised for intensity.

[@GabiN64]

@@jaythompson5102 Yup in civ 4 you can have real Mongol hordes.

[@alexpeers9863]

4 was the last game to allow unit stacking. Last game to have descent combat. Thanks for covering this game.

[@kxr842]

CIV 4 cave men to cosmos is still the best mod ever made.

[@Sp4mMe]

Do a marathon stream, come on, you know you want to do it ;)

[@IncognitoUnknown-fc2tu]

O well, that Italian is crazy! He is Italian right?

[@monolith94]

I prefer fall from heaven

[@McHobotheBobo]

It and the various Fall From Heaven 2 modmods are peak Civ. Honorable mention to Civ4Dune!

[@blockmasterscott]

I never heard of this, what does the mod do?

[@Rich4098]

Civ4 with BTS is the pinnacle. I feel like later civs were too much about memorizing arbitrary progression tables. Civ4 made sense with how history could be. I loved the addition of corporations and how they allowed you to make giant cities even in the desert. Makes you think of all the commercial and industrial infrastructure that makes Phoenix AZ possible.

[@decoyps2]

I can't tell if Civ 4 is truly the best or if I'm just nosalgified by it being the first one I played as wee child. Gameplay aside, in my opinion it definitely has the best VIBES of any of the Civ games; Baba Yetu's clearly a masterpiece, and I love the background music particularly around the early game. Also in my opinion the leaderheads have just the right amount of style and personality. I will say that it should go undisputed that this game has the best technology quotes by far, and Nimoy's voice is PERFECT.

[@homeonegreen9]

I listen to the Civ IV soundtrack while working, while studying, while grading, while playing Civ VI. Then found a mod to put the Civ IV quoted into V and VI.

[@sanseverything900]

Don't forget Leonard Nimoy voiceovers! That alone is worth the cost of the game!

[@theodis8134]

I started with Civilization 2 Multiplayer Gold Edition I played it quite extensively with my brother including all sorts of custom and modded scenarios. Civilization 4 is still the one I return to.

[@Rakkeyal]

Civ 4 is still my favourite - I look forward to watching this one and seeing how you feel.

[@Lightsoul1987]

7 hours... God damn Zakh I really had plans for this day... Now I only have one plan for the next 7 hours. 🤣😂

[@stevencass8849]

I didn’t know that Firaxis considered Civ 1-3 and 4-6 as separate. I agree though, and I’ve long felt that Civ IV was the start of when the developers moved on from the original formula. Having started from Civ I, it’s probably why Civ III remains my favorite Civilization game.

[@stevencass8849]

@Orthodox_Serb-x4u Huh? I didn’t declare a “best game of the series”. I stated what MY favorite game is, and it’s Civ III.

[@blockmasterscott]

I'm very familiar with 2, but only dabbled a bit in 3. Could you tell me them main differences in 2 and 3? I'm asking because I have 3 in my Steam library, but never really gave it a lot of time.

[@blockmasterscott]

@Orthodox_Serb-x4u I tried Alpha Centauri, but had too much of a hard time with it because I'm partially color blind, the colors in the game kept throwing me off.

[@stevencass8849]

@@blockmasterscott Differences from 2 to 3… 3 your Civ has borders. Each Civ has a unique unit. Also, every leader has unique traits. Graphics are considerable step up, so is difficultly. The leader council is no longer there, or the wonder movies. Also, resources show up, and you often need them to build better units- you need iron for swordsman, for example.

[@roxxyrobofox61]

Great video. There was a weird part around the fifteen minute mark where he stared directly into the camera, spoke my name aloud and said "Tell everyone you know I said Civilization 6 is better than Civilization 5 and it's not even close" but it didn't ruin the rest of the video

[@E6hosting]

Human civilization peaked with this game.

[@jamesweiksner3587]

You are playing civ 4 😮. Civ 4 is my favorite with Legends of revolution mod. The game was balanced. Barbarians evolve into a culture and a leader is randomly selected. They can capture cities and expand like a civilization. That is the best barbarian mechanic of all the civ games!!! I love Ruthless Al. The computer plays to win !!!

[@ahmedatiq5051]

Old memories ! Absolutely loving it.

[@BasedPeter]

Back when I was a little kid my dad and I only played 2 games together (I say played, he played and I sat next to him watching him all starry-eyed) - Quake 2 and Civ III. When I saw Civ IV in a game store one day and he bought it for me I asked him if he wanted to play it with me. He said it was too different and that he would stick to III. Years later when Civ V came out a lot of my friends implored me to play it with them. Without noticing I instinctively looked at the gameplay and said "it was too different and that I'd stick to IV."

[@lilleaton]

2 is the best, easily, but 4 is unfairly forgotten. A lot of interesting mechanics!

[@sanseverything900]

TBH I haven't played vanilla BTS in almost a decade. Civ4 mods like Realism Invictus, Fall From Heaven, Caveman to Cosmos and Advanced Civ AI are just so good. Those alone will have me playing the game for many more decades.

[@cristhianferreyra1563]

3:44:40 well is about the config (in part) of the workers. I mean, you put on automatic different works for they, one is upgrade cities, other expand, and other produce, etc. So they are always changing the type of terrain, that mean, a worker will construct buildings of production , but other will construct upgrades for increase the size of the city, then another will focus only on roads, with different type of works they are destroying something or everything during the process. My recomendation: watch what the workers build and if you can manually put they to work, if you leave they work automatic I suggest all have the same config. I hope this can help you on your next gameplay.

[@marekkos3513]

the sound design the music the art style the gameplay over all.Yes Civ4 is the best civ ever made.Just give me a remastered version

[@jamesweiksner3587]

I would point out that people could play civ 4 without needing steam. I had multiple computers linked together. We played a lot of multiplayer civ 4 games.

[@GamerZakh]

Yeah you can get Civ 4 on GOG as well.

[@ParadigmShifter-zx5fq]

Probs the best game ever, not just the best Civ game :p Mistake was made turn 1: Your city would have popped the goody hut AND you have a chance to get a free technology but only when you have a city. So there was no need to move the warrior to the hut.

[@patrick-sprachenmusikstudi5351]

Notes: If your units are in enemy territory, they cost way more to maintain. That's why your economy tanked once you moved your army into Pacal's land. The trebuchets that didn't have the explore button were part of a group that moved together. Once they bombarded the city, they were considered detached from the group. You can save time by just creating a group for the trebuchets and then just click the bombard button and it will do it for all of them at once. The retreat odds really just stem from the strength differences. Once your (slightly dated) units became too weak + your defenses were already down, the base strength of the catapults was sufficient to always retreat. I don't remember but since your capital only had like 5-6 units, way less than Pacal in his capital, it was probably enough for Justinian to only lose 1 siege unit in combat, after which your units were too weak. And his mounted units also dealt collateraldamage

[@Griexxt]

34:37 The entire point of the slavery civic is that you can turn surplus population into production. Don't let your unhappy citizens just sit there. Whip them! Also, you have stone and marble in close proximity to your cities. Improved, they give bonuses to the production of many of the best wonders, and a couple of the regular buildings. This is one thing I miss in the later games. Civ V has a 15 % bonus to all wonder production in cities that have marble, but in Civ IV, a couple of the resources give production bonuses to certain wonders and buildings, which makes them worth working for to get access to.

[@tw7998]

I am old and started with Civ1 - but i think civ4 is the one i played the most. Its also the one where i lost the most cities in combat to sneak attacks.

[@Zyzyx442]

I love civ2 the most, but civ4 beyond the sword is the best imo, the community was amazing, so cool and fun lobby and games. And the mods for civ4 are really something else, especially fall from heaven.

[@blockmasterscott]

Civ 2 ruled! It's a crime against humanity that no platforms like Good Old Game made it playable on modern systems.

[@TheBathrobeWizard]

Oh that title music 😢 OUCH MY FEELS!

[@serteshsardrakal2272]

When i was a toddler my parents would nurse me to sleep while playing civ III (cause i really liked the soundtrack and animations and would stay up for hpurs watching my dad or mom play and started playing myself. Civ Iv came out when I was in elementary.

[@paumic6366]

Sounds like a beautiful time

[@noelyap9847]

I gave this a 👍just for that rendition of "Baba Yetu"

[@bleahster6335]

Ahhhh Civ IV! My favourite and with my favourite AI Justinian too!

[@jimmcclane4171]

My civ fav is a hard call. I like 2, 3, and 4 a lot. The 4th civ was colorful, dynamic, big new editions, had voices of both sid meyer and leonard nimoy... just a wow game.

[@gerriejordaan8385]

Sorry for missing your previous videos. Been super busy. Growing up, I only ever played Civilization 2 despite its faults as I liked its music, the council and the challenge. Was pretty nostalgic. Will watch the videos soon.

[@GamerZakh]

Hey no worries, life is busy and it's best to watch what you want at your own pace. Hope you enjoy!

[@davewxc]

My favourite civ game. Had great mods and the XML game data structure made modding easy to do.

[@GeneralProfessor]

I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favourite samarkanding video on KZbin.

[@AlexS-oj8qf]

The best thing about this game is the Rhys and Fall of Civilization. I love controlling the world as Rome then have areas of my Empire revolting as new “Civilization” rise from my land.

[@danyoutube7491]

It's depressing to hear that Civ 6 was so commercially successful. It's little surprise that they made so much money on it, they launched it at an eye watering price and kept it there for years, while back in the days of Civ 4 you couldn't get away with asking more than £40 for a brand new 'AAA' PC game of any kind, and after a year or so at the most you could expect the price to drop significantly. Civ 7 is going to be £60 at launch, and they have no incentive to change the extortionate pricing that they employed with Civ 6. Let's hope the gameplay has changed enough to make it feel truly different.

[@Cenot4ph]

In that case ill wait until the price drops eventually or it appears free on Epic

[@thadsul]

The thing with civ4 and games of its time is that you bought the game and then a few expansions, which was not so expensive but gave a full experience. For civ 6, its dozens of DLCs that give less content than what a proper expansion used to give, and you end up paying more for the full game (and then there will be another DLC or gamepass later)

[@shadout]

The only civ game I was disappointed with was III. It felt so... flat and dull. It did nothing to make me feel engaged. Then IV came along and it was so much more alive.

[@EduNauta95]

It's quite safe to say thaT civ4 is the best one. It's is VERY safe to say that civ4 has the best music overall (not just for the main menu).

[@GamerZakh]

For music, a big problem I had with this video is that most of the songs used from the Medieval era onwards is that it's all classical music and got copyright claimed. So it's okay to say it has the best music but can't really credit that to Civ 4. A lot of it is Mozart and Bach.

[@EduNauta95]

@@GamerZakh civ4 plugged the best music of the last 1000 years into my brain when i was 13 and revolutionised my understanding of music. Great dev choice. And a very tasteful list, people in music conservatory can attest.

[@Goosey_Loosey]

so what's wrong with civ6? i'm curious. note if anyone answers "looks cartoony" i'll ignore your opinions entirely.

[@GamerbyDesign]

Leonard Nimoy haven't heard that voice in a while. R.I.P.

[@Canthary]

After watching a discussion about well made game mechanics in games, i realized how elegantly made Civ 4's are. If you don't want to deal with a mechanic in this title beyond the basic combat and expanding, you can simply ignore it.

[@LuKo3x5066]

cIV was perfect! Civ 1 - 3 were trying to make the formula better, but with cIV they nailed it and that's why they needed to change so much with ciV. Both ciV and ciVI took massive risks and can feel detached from the cycle just to be able to be good enough to compete with cIV.

[@Daalon4RPGs]

I love all Civilization games. My best game was in Civ I though. I played the Mongols and straight up went for conquest. Due to EXTREME luck, somehow I got technology to make ships, crossed the Atlantic Ocean and conquered the entire world by 360 BC. Never been able to recreate it again.

[@zathraaas]

I have logged approximately (ok, exactly) 21,497.8 hours in Civ4 BTS on steam. At least that's what steam says. Admittedly it keeps the timer ticking when you walk away to eat or sleep... But still, I have played this thing a LOT and is the best civ game IMO. I liked the move from squares to hexes with the later versions.. but could never overcome the disappointment in not having huge battles with dozens of units stacked. pangaea, huge, marathon, with 10 AI's is my go to for a game that will immerse me for a few weeks.

[@peterdebest4296]

it has the best music, and as I remember it I never enjoyed any other Civ game as much as CIV IV. Might just be nostalgia though, since it was the first one I played a lot.

[@akuseru85]

Yes, it is. The best Civ game ever.

[@Soshiplayz]

Can't wait to see the best civ game. Civ 6.

[@pandora4111]

For me CivCity Rome has a soft spot from my childhood 😊

[@buckwheat219970]

7 iterations of Civilization and here I am still waiting for another Sid Meier's Pirates! game.....

[@Nuvizzle]

My personal opinion - Civ 4 is the best vanilla Civ experience, but Civ 5 with the Vox Populi mod pack is peak civ.

[@JohnPaulSaylor]

Baba Yetu and Leonard Nimoy make this my favorite Civ game- coupled with the fact that it was the first civ game I actually really played without cheating or anything. Whenever I played V I always used the mod that replaced the narrator with Nimoy.

[@markedone8160]

This is not going to be a popular opinion but I miss unit stacking. Truth is I was never a big fan of unit stacking and when I saw the new mechanics in civ5 I was very excited. But apart from the fact that it makes controlling big armies hard for the player(which is fair enough actually), it also breaks it completely for the AI. Civ 4 AI was doing a much better job putting a fight against you, in later games it just can't handle controlling big(or even not so big) armies and it's one blunder after the other. I'm not saying that unit stacking was perfect by any means, but it did make the AI much more competitive. If not for that I would say that Civ5 might be the better game, I definitely like it better than 6. Haven't played the first 3 titles. So Civ4 is the GOAT for me :)

[@GamerZakh]

The only problem I have with the unit stacking here is that defenders always automatically get the best counter to any attacker. If there's a stack of 20 crossbowmen and 2 spearmen, there's not much point building cavalry to counter the crossbowmen because you'll lose like 6-8 of them to the 2 spearmen. I added 2 pikemen to my army and all the Mayan elephants died on them. Cavalry are meant to be able to run around the spears and flank archers, but it's not possible when the entire army is on a single tile.

[@ParadigmShifter-zx5fq]

@@GamerZakh That's why you need catapults to soften up the entire stack (after bombarding the city to 0% defence first of course). Once you have enough catapults (5 per stack is probably enough?) you can suicide attack a few and everything gets easier. Catapults are way OP in this game (replace them with trebuchet and cannon once they become available of course).

[@GamerZakh]

@@ParadigmShifter-zx5fq That's the same problem that I don't like that I'm talking about. You have to sacrifice a bunch of units if you want to kill anything, you just replaced crossbows for catapults. I didn't do it here because my crossbows did collateral damage, so I saved the catapults to bombard the next city. I can't run my cavalry around and flank the archers. I can't charge my axemen into their infantry front lines. There's no tactics. Whatever it is, 1 stack must mash into the other until the shell of the nut cracks. Whether you crack the nut with siege or you just destroy the 1-2 counter units by force, the rest of the stack crumbles to your mono-unit army.

[@damianabregba7476]

Thats more of a problem with unlimited stacking. Add some penalty or hard limit on number of units and problem easily mitigated. Some mods do exactly that

[@markedone8160]

@@GamerZakh I agree with what you say, it does open more tactics for the player and makes it more interesting. As I said, I was very excited when I first saw the system, especially the ranged units with actual...range :) My main problem is that althuogh it makes it better and more enjoyable for the player, it also makes it harder for the AI to handle. In Civ5 I can defend a much larger army with just a handful of units. In Civ4 the same army is going to send me back to stone age and I appreciate that. It forces me to learn the game better, in order to not bring myself in the same position in the future. In Civ5 war felt like a cheat code that I could use every time I wasn't doing very well in a game and win in the end. I have to say though, it feels awkward defending doomstacks lol

[@RaebEeffoc]

Funny, Ive literally just been getting back Civ 4 which I consider it to be my personal best version. Currently working on a mod Ive been working on to enhance the base game a ittle bit. Btw, you should download the Blue Marble project which enhances the graphics a bit.

[@Glibbers]

Awww yeah, another one! Always glad to see them.

[@icoborg]

nice! :D...so maaaaaany good mods...live long and prosper!! \/

[@ericforest9186]

I worried it was over when he said “I’m a mono unit player.”

[@GamerZakh]

Even now though, I don't see too much point building a diverse army. You don't get to counter when you're on the attack, which is the situation I was referring to. Why build knights to counter archers when they'll always have to go through the spearmen first? Why build axemen to counter spears when they'll always face the archers first? On defence, sure throw in 2 spearmen to stop enemy knights. But on attack, it doesn't really matter too much besides adding some siege for collateral damage and bombard.

[@magnusnilsson9792]

With so close starting positions, warrior-rushing would be preferred. Also, turn resource map on when planting cities, helps a lot.

[@cirolino1200]

I still prefer CivIV to all other versions. And still play it 😍

[@fluffy-puffy-puppy]

Sweet. I was just looking if you did a civ 4 retrospective after watching your civ 3 one last night

[@wilcoxchar]

I started Civ with 3. I still have nostalgia for it, and when I tried playing Civ 2 I just couldn't get past some things like not having cultural borders. But Civ 4, I don't know if I'd say it's the best but it is definitely the most memorable. Even just things like Baba Yetu and Nimoy reading the intro gave it a feeling that the games before and since haven't been able to reach.

[@icoborg]

i always keep a bunch of great artists before going to war...also very useful in contested cities in the border

[@blockmasterscott]

I've played them all, from Civ 1 all the way to 6, and IV is still my favorite. I actually played it last night.

[@oufukubinta]

The wonder movies you got in Civ 4 were so good that it was mandatory to complete each wonder, and the music was ace too. The gameplay was good but too basic compared to 5 and 6 (6 by far has the best gameplay at this stage even though it was very bare bones when it came out)

[@patrick-sprachenmusikstudi5351]

What would be a feature of Civ 6 that would be totally lacking in 4?

[@sitraahra1979]

I'm really enjoying your retrospectives. Have you considered doing one for Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri? It is very different from the Civ series but yet it is, sort of, a sequel to it. Always been one of my favorites for the gameplay, atmosphere, and "plot" of the game.

[@GamerZakh]

I want to play that but I've never played it before, so it'll be a bit of a blind retrospective.

[@TheAqualegend]

Civ IV was the first game of the franchise I played as a child, and while it's got that nostalgic vibe, I think I agree with Firaxis on it being the start of a new game type from IV-VI. Great starting point but I can't help but feel the two iterations(games) afterwards are just better experiences for the player overall. VI is my personal favorite mostly due to the excellent expansions and amazing modding customizations though. I am looking forward to VII and I think if people realize it will be an unpolished immersive and new game experience similar to how Civ has always been before fine-tuned expansions, it will be well-received just like the majority think on the last couple games.

[@RaebEeffoc]

Just reached the part where your going on and on about the trebs. The reason the trebs are retreating is because a Treb can only do a maximum amount of damage to your units. I think its like 70%. Once they reach the max amount of damage they can deal to you, they withdraw.

[@Jaysan177]

Realism Invictus is an incredible mod for Civ 4, I was completely addicted

[@Black_Panther-f3x]

yes! the best civ ever! civ 4 , no doubt

[@herdek550]

This video can't even be more family friendly... but KZbin algorithm is something else

[@Apophis324]

Yeah, just seeing that timeline on the map at the end, it really shows how doomed you were from just about the beginning. Maybe if you were allowed to have horses you could have done more (take on the Mayans early on so you and Byzantium were more evenly matched in terms of space), but that is just a spectator's observation. I only know CIV I and that didn't have fancy resource requirements XD

[@GamerZakh]

@@Apophis324 Haha yes, the start location meant this was much harder than a 'Noble' game. By the time I realised the problem it was too late.

[@Apophis324]

@@GamerZakh So unfair.. But since you did win a game on your own a month ago, then it must be OUR fault as watchers! We jinx your games! :P

[@GamerZakh]

@@Apophis324 I always get the worst spawns with you all lol, it's the streamer effect.

[@icoborg]

@@GamerZakh it's probably a subcategory of Murphy's general laws

[@crazybrazil21]

Nothing else matters, CIV IV is the best game because Leonard Nimoy is the narrator. Not even Sean Bean can beat that. Come on. It is an incredible game though. Love it. I have played since CIV I on the super nintendo.

[@mmelkilany]

civilization 6 is my favorite game because it is the most intuitive one to play for me it feel so natural ,

[@Drizz1717]

Civ 7 let's go!

[@blockmasterscott]

I'm actually excited about that game.

[@Drizz1717]

@@blockmasterscott me too!

[@Stormy4221-ft3sn]

The music, text AND images in the intro are all connected to Civ1

[@GamerZakh]

Yeah I never noticed how it's all the same until I started watching it in full for this recording.

[@gnomeDruid]

Civ 4 is only the best civ game because of the Fall From Heaven mod. The worst thing about Civ 5 was that the mod tools didn't allow enough latitude to recreate FFH.

[@robtierney5653]

My first civ game was 2. Played 2-3-4-5-6. I found the jump in gameplay, graphics, and strategy the biggest improvement overall going from 3 to 4. 4 is the best overall game because Firaxis has not been able to solve the AI problem for planning ahead. Here's the planning ahead problem in a nutshell. In 4 you could still unit stack on a tile (done away with 5, and districts were introduced with 6. The AI in 6 can't manage district planning to increase overall output, and it has no programming to manage bottlenecks. That's why it often has it's ranged units standing next to your melee unit, while it's melee unites are in the wrong place to protect it's ranged / siege units. That's why 7 sounds like an attempt to solve those 2 big problems in AI limitations so far.

[@HPLovecraftsCat9]

Jesus Christ, a whopping 7 hours. Now that's gaming stamina.

[@ArdaKaraduman]

Civ4 is still the best for me. Civ5 was terrible, it was a half cooked game before Civ6. Civ6 is good but I find it too complex generally. I am open to hex maps, and removal of stacks of death is good. But it has too many mechanics which makes micro management hard. When I wanna play a hex map, I usually go for Old World. Which is done by some members of Civ4 team I believe. It has Crusaders kings like hereditary mechanics, hex map and an interesting random events engine. The random events in Old World is quite complex, not like half baked Civ4 events. They are tree like with multiple branches and outcomes which can last quite a few steps. They do not always resolve in one turn.

[@sitraahra1979]

Also related to your warning: Never preorder any game. It never benefits the consumer, only the company, even with the "bonuses".

[@RonMizman]

Look how much more depth there is in this game than the last 2.. and this is on a tiny teenie map with 2 opposing CIVS.. You asked is 4 still the best? The proof is in the eating of the pudding. Thanks for vid!

[@Phalanx11]

I have 15000 hours in Civ IV and I always play the Romans. Their premier unit is a Preatorian with high attack value that you can conquer your continent with.

[@icoborg]

2 years 24/7 :D

[@Phalanx11]

@@icoborg Oooww my fingers!

[@ParadigmShifter-zx5fq]

Romans are very strong but Praetorians are more expensive than swords, and with enough catapults you can conquer anyone early. Best civs for rapid conquest are Inca (especially on marathon speed), Egypt (War chariots), Persia (Immortals), Greece (Phalanxes not too good since they replaced axemen though, they used to replace spears). Honorary mention for France with Musketeers which are 2 movement musketmen so can finish non-gunpowder civs very quickly and Arabia (war camels - I think they did not require horses??) IIRC. Aztecs also good for early conquering since the Sacrificial Altar (replacement for courthouses) reduces whip anger duration which makes it one of the best unique buildings for early conquest. Egypt was my favourite, and I preferred Hatshepsut to Rameses I think because her traits were better IIRC. You also need iron for Praetorians which you don't always get. They are very good though yes. EDIT: Ottomans unique unit was also very strong which was a musket that got a bonus against all non-gunpowder melee I think?

[@Phalanx11]

@@ParadigmShifter-zx5fq yea but ...purple is my fav color.

[@arudegesture]

Two questions, Zakh: 1. Will you do a play through of Civilization: Call to Power (and perhaps, though it's technically not a Civ game, Call to Power II)? 2. Why do you hate boats? Is it just in Civ (and then why?) or is it in general (and then an even bigger why)? Anyway, I really appreciate these videos, having played every Civ title when they were released (including the CtP titles) since the second instalment.👍

[@GamerZakh]

I've never played Call to Power before but I am curious, so maybe along with Alpha Centauri. For boats, it's because I'm terrible at naval combat. I'm much better at tactical ground combat. Terrain, high ground, cover, line of sight, etc. All that doesn't exist in naval combat. And by 'naval' it includes space like Homeworld because space warfare is essentially 3D naval warfare. This is why in Humankind I tended to dominate land battles but lost every boat war, the tactical 'arena' battles were exactly what I excel at. I also kind of feel like boat wars boil down to just who has more units in 4X games because there's not really flanking, fuel, range, and so on. A lot of the tactics are removed, so I'm not just bad at it but also it's boring for me. This is also kind of why I mono-unit in Civ 4, the infinistack removes a lot of tactics. Yeah throwing in some siege is good but there's no point building cavalry to counter archers because once you get to a city or army stack it's defender's choice. The cavalry will always charge into spears. The infantry will always charge into archers. Might as well just spam all 1 unit and once you break through the 1 or 2 counter units in a city they destroy everything remaining. I put 2 spearmen and 2 infantry in my crossbow army this game and literally nothing could touch my army stack besides a massively more advanced army. Every elephant died to the spears. Every infantry died to my crossbows. What could the Mayans do? I lost 90% of my units charging into their cities because defenders have such an advantage.

[@arudegesture]

@@GamerZakh Yeah, I get that! It's a bit of a hard nut for 4x's to crack. The rock-paper-scissors approach is a valid one, but it does lend itself to oversimplification. Humankind did try to mix it up with, in my view, so-so results, but apart from adding some randomness to which unit faces off with which (or making a combined 4x/tactical strategy game), I don't really see any solution to it. And I think it would probably be extremely frustrating for the player if randomness *was* introduced because that would probably make battles feel completely unfair. Anyway; Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions! :-) And you should definitely give Civ: CtP and CtP II a whirl! I haven't played them for quite some time but if memory serves me right, I really liked them!

[@Griexxt]

That's a great starting location. 🤩

[@ParadigmShifter-zx5fq]

Starting city is very good, can't tell if the resource to the southeast was marble or stone. Anyway you have so much food you should go for the Pyramids and Great Library and get the specialist economy going. I expect you did not do that though, will find out. Stone speeds up Pyramids and Marble speeds up Great Library. You need the Pyramids for early representation to play a specialist economy really. EDIT: You also get a couple of free wins against barbarians or animals so you don't need to worry about barbs at the very beginning.

[@free_spoons2563]

I think 5 is still my favorite, but Nimoy's narration lines still live in my head

[@Griexxt]

I still play Civ IV regularly. But I play V and VI too. I realised that I haven't watched the intro past where "man appeared". Edit: I had a question about DLC:s but then I saw you had the link to the Complete Edition.

[@zeusapollo6504]

Just build as much Cottages as you can. Thoese are broken in Civ 4. So is Ghenghis Khan, who has a lot of horsepower to conquer the world + cottages give him all the gold he needs to fund them. Also, the last Civ, with Stalin in it, which is kinda a surprise, since he was replaced by Catherine in Civ3 for the first time he was a stable leader head in CiV1 and Civ2 - despite this, Russian A.I: in Civ3 was the most aggressive one i have every encounterd and the Doomstacks were wild, allready very early on after a few turns. But the most important thing i have to say is: Civ 4 is the last game with Doomstacks, this made the A.I. quite fearsome at the highest difficulties. Since i am an old middle-aged man, i remember how in the gamespy chat, when this plattform still existed, a bunch of people stopped played the really good Shadow Magic(AoW2) multiplayer FFA games and switched to play Civ4 for a while. It was quite popular around 2005/2006, when it was still fresh. Btw, artwork of Civ 4 is exactly my style. The music, too. Everything is pitch perfect suited to my tastes - there is not tactical combat as in other games, but at least there are doomstacks.

[@robertstimmel1100]

I love Civ 6, but it's the first game in the series that I've played since 2. I've been thinking about picking up 4 or 5, but I've been hooked on 6 for the last year or so.

[@SkyFly19853]

my first Civ Game in the series... Civ 4 is one of the best...

[@AlexGarcia-xw4ts]

I think civ 4 is the best one made, you get legit 3D graphics and the more in depth economy resource management and diplomacy, although i am a fan of the civ 6 grievance system everything else is bleh. I also do miss the unit stacking, it felt more like i was actually controlling several armies instead of civ 5 and 6 where even late game just feels like its a bunch of tribes and dudes on an island juking it out. Im excited for civ 7s stack and 1 unit per tile mix seems like best of both worlds

[@glenndiddy]

Civ 4 would be my favourite if unit stacking wasn't limitless. I prefer the cities, borders, wonders etc in civ 4, but I just really dislike unit stacking until infinity. It's an amazing game, but that one point keeps it from being number 1 in my books

[@sanseverything900]

For me the unlimited stack sizes made it so much easier to maneuver massive armies around in the late game where I don't have to tediously move single units around like in Civ 5. That's me though, as my playstyle leans towards being a conquest/domination warmonger.

[@glenndiddy]

@@sanseverything900 well that's my main issue. The armies are simply too big for me. Civ 5/6 with 0 stacking have their own issues as well

[@blockmasterscott]

Unit stacking is what I actually enjoy about the game.

[@grzegorzzimodro9884]

@@blockmasterscott I understand that you like it (many does) but why? For me it's the only thing that stops me from play CIV IV. I so much hate that mechanic in any game, for example Medival Total War or a first Shogun.

[@damianabregba7476]

It makes big armies scary with more oomph to them, but most importantly it reduces fiddly tedium of moving one unit at a time. It scales better with time, where in endgame your turn time increases a but too much. Call to Power 2 had limited stack of 12 units making them feel like big armies and composition within them mattered too. It also makes it easier for AI to manage competent warfare. Limited stack is the best and there are mods to IV that adresses that

[@Radii_DC]

it is, period.

[@eddieballgame]

Never saw a need to buy the newer versions...CIV IV has it all, to include great mods. Plus...it runs great on non-super systems & in multiplayer to include 'lan'...with zero issues. Oh, & Nimoy (Spock) was a great touch.

[@ivantumanov1015]

Hovers over join city button as he's saying "i guess there's no join city for this one"

[@gentlesirpancakebottoms6692]

Oh my god. People need to stop with the Civ 6 thing. I personally don't like Civ 6 very much. I prefer Civ 4 and 5. And am cautiously optimistic about Civ 7 (apart from Denuvo, I hope they see reason and remove it before release). It is different but I like the ideas. Whether it will work or not remains to be seen. But Civ 6 is by far the best selling and most popular Civ game at the moment and me liking the game or not is irrelevant to that fact. The game being the newest entry so far ofc plays a part in this. Just like Civ 5 at release which was a real let down and downgarade from Civ 4 (even the base game) for many people, sold better than Civ 4 did. And again, people liking Civ 4 better (including me) doesen't change the fact that Civ 5 was a financial success. There is nothing to argue about. I repeat. I did not like Civ 6 at release and enjoy both Civ 4 and 5 immensely more to this day. But more people play Civ 6. Thats fact. Civ 7 simply because its the newest entry in a well known franchise will probably sell more and have more players than previous games withing a short time even if the game ends up being dogsh*it and having all the Ubisoft-like toxic DLC practises in the world on top.

[@GamerZakh]

@@gentlesirpancakebottoms6692 Thank you for understanding the point. It's really tiring having so many people come for me either for things I never said or simply for sharing facts and numbers.

[@NC7491]

The graphics haven't aged well and I 'd love for a Civ 5 reskin, but the music is out of this world.

[@nathanburg7571]

Would love to see a link to the interview with the Firaxis developer who claimed that the biggest change in Civilization series was between Civ 3 and Civ 4 because that makes absolutely no sense. Civ 1, 2, 3 and 4 are Classic Civ with Civ 4 being the pinnacle of Classic Civ with Civ 5 and 6 being Modern Civ. Civ 3 to 4 was a huge improvement but did not have revolutionary changes but Civ 4 to 5 had radical change core gameplay features thus creating the Modern Civ series. Civ 7 looks like it is going to break the mold again to possibly be an even bigger change than the Civ 4 to 5 jump. I would like to understand their arguments for such a claim since that is not how to the veteran Civ community sees it.

[@GamerZakh]

The specific quote speaking on Civ 4-6 specifically is: “When you look at [Civilization 4, 5, and 6], they’re all relatively similar to each other” and “We change the rooms, put up new wallpaper, add on a couple of different things or extensions to the house, but they’re iterative, and our fans have gotten so good at guessing what we’re doing. They know the order we’re going to do it in, what’s going to be in the first expansion… and Ed [Beach] didn’t want to make a Civ 6.5; he wanted to do something that would make our fans have to start over. The old strategies aren’t gonna work. They have to open up and look at it with fresh eyes to understand how to play this game.”

[@nathanburg7571]

@@GamerZakh I still stand by what I wrote and think it is inline with what Ed Beach has said that Civ 7 will be a huge change. It seems much bigger change than any previous iteration but you said in the video a Firaxis developer claimed 1, 2 and 3 are similarly group with 4, 5 and 6 are similarly grouped but I have not seen Ed Beach or any other Firaxis developer claim that nor would I interpret what he said as claiming that but instead he is highlighting how big a jump Civ 7 will be. I interpret it as, as big as a jump that Civ 4 to 5 was, (or any other iteration) they were still more similar to each other than Civ 7 will be to anything before.

[@GamerZakh]

@@nathanburg7571 The quote specifies, "When you look at [Civilization 4, 5, and 6], they’re all relatively similar to each other”. This means Civ 3 is not like Civ 4 and that Civ 4 is similar to 5 and 6. This developer clearly stated 4, 5, and 6 are iterations, specifically not including 3. This straight up means 3 to 4 is a bigger jump than 4 to 5 to 6 in their eyes. 4, 5, 6 were grouped together specifically in this statement. You said Civ 4 was a classic Civ, meanwhile this developer says it's basically a few small tweaks away from Civ 6. That's the main takeaway for you. You don't have to agree. I don't necessarily agree. But this developer, who is working on Civ 7 and works with Ed Beach, thinks this. I never said the jump to Civ 7 wasn't bigger than anything before or that it wasn't a big change. Not sure why you're driving that point so hard with me?

[@nathanburg7571]

@@GamerZakh I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply you didn't think Civ 7 was (or wasn't) a big jump, nor disagree with you; however, I find what the Firaxis developer (might have) said just baffling. Would be nice to be able to see the interview or what the direct quote was since it would help understand better where they are coming from since while Civ 4 introduced ideas that carried over to 5 and 6, I do see Civ 5 as making major breaks from the past games in the series. The hex tiles, one unit per tile, global happiness are impactful changes, but the removal of the commerce system dramatically changes the core gameplay system that lead to many past strategies that were at their peak in Civ 4 to no longer be relevant to the modern Civ games. The commerce system from Civ 1 to Civ 4 is not understood by most players (including myself for a long time) so maybe it helped reduce player confuction but once you understand the system it open up a lot of strategic possibilities that are not available in Civ 5 or 6. Most of the interviews I have seen provide abstract motivations or how they want the game to feel but not a concrete discussion about game design decisions. That might come after the game launch at GDC talks since right now it is a marketing push. Love watching many of Sid's or Soren Johnson's talks.

[@GamerZakh]

@@nathanburg7571 As far as I can tell this interview wasn't on camera but it's been written on a number of sites. You can Google the quote. I'm quoting it exactly from the interview. Here's one with the full interview: www.polygon.com/gamescom/443918/civilization-7-hands-on-preview

[@Charles_Anthony]

Civ4 is still the best!

[@Dunno1999]

I love Civ 4 so much. Many incredible mods like Realism Invictus and Rhye and Falls are my favorite pastime whenever I got bored. However, their combat is still bonker tho, especially for offensive or city besieging.