Is Contemporary Classical Music in Decline?

[@saadhaddadmusic]

This question always annoyed me, so I'm here to provide some data-driven analytics to address this question more succinctly. 🔗 LINK to Bachtrack's full article: bachtrack.com/classical-music-statistics-2023

[@davidyoung6331]

It's tough being a serious chamber or orchestra composer, whether "contemporary" or not. There's a lot of music out there for a limited number of performers. As a present-day composer, who composes in a 19th century style, I find it difficult to even give away my music. And there is zero chance that I would ever make money on my compositions. My regards to professor Haddad for being able to get commission. Most of my works are string quartets. I reckon there are under 100 professional quartets in the world who could play my music, and probably under 50. And with thousands, if not tens of thousands of composers writing for that chamber group, I have terrible competition. There just aren't enough groups skilled enough to play everyone's string quartet. Same could be said for piano trios, piano quartets and similar works. I'm retired and have time to compose and I am driven to compose. But there is considerable frustration not being able to (really) hear my own compositions. Yes, notation programs have playback but playback for a string quartet is always a poor substitute. Again, my compliments to professor Haddad for getting the commissions and the sponsors / awards to get his music performed.

[@andrewwoodpiano]

I very much agree, I’d argue that contemporary composers & their music need even more prioritization if classical music is to stay relevant

[@thedivacomposer]

Love the optimism, especially when it's backed up with the data. Contemporary classical music will only continue to thrive if more seats at the table are added for everyone.

[@saadhaddadmusic]

Absolutely

[@Jose-gq9bt]

There's something that piques my curiosity. Why do you think unconventional film directors like David Lynch receive so much recognition while avant-garde composers are only acknowledged by a niche audience? It's as if our art, in some way, is reserved for a circle of experts in the field.

[@nilesloughlin6845]

Have you read Milton Babbitt’s perspective on the divergence between popular music and scientific/academic/abstract music? Film composers (and directors) have an easier means of operating within the popular culture industry given the prominence of Hollywood and various film genres, even if they decide to get a little avant-garde with their work. Strictly musical composers, particularly working in the realm of abstract classically-derived art, are offered much less consideration within our current popular music industry.

[@josemiguelmaciasvocar2690]

In my opinion, it's because even in the most radical films, art pieces, theatre plays, dances, etc., there exists a conversation (or confrontation) between the artist and it's culture. Today it seems (at least in my perspective) Classical composers are encouraged to divorce completely from culture and create their own insular language out of thin air. This resulting in pieces that communicate nothing but the technical knowledge of its composer. This is a problem that the experimental realms of Popular Music (ie. Art Punk, Experimental Rock, Industrial Music, Experimental Hip-hop, Art Pop, Noise, and so on) don't seem to experience as severly.

[@billyjames78]

I don’t necessarily think that experimental music is treated differently - take the success of Sonic Youth, Aphex Twin, William Basinski and to some extent even artists like Merzbow. But of course these are not strictly contemporary classical. I think contemporary classical still has a long way to go in terms of exposure before it gets to the same level as these I think mostly because of how it has been treated as too ‘academic’ over the last few years much the same as the rest of the classical music world.

[@bandoaleciance]

David Lynch might not be a good comparison, I'd rather go with somebody like Stan Brakhage or Michael Snow, who are definitely not much recognized.

[@samuel_andreyev]

You are comparing a specific artist working in a popular medium (David Lynch) with an ill-defined category (avant garde composers). That’s like comparing the mating ritual of flamingos to the category of things that cost less than 10 dollars.

[@ericleiter6179]

I think these stats are encouraging...even if they don't take into account many U.S. orchestras/ensembles. I believe it will only keep growing in favor of the living (or recently deceased) composers...the classics will always be there, so now it's a matter of getting creative in terms of programming and still keeping an audience

[@monicachew]

Personally, I find it hard to see the presence of any contemporary music on 15-20% programs as a promising stat. As we all know, most of the time the contemporary music slot is given much less time than standard rep, so the actually time devoted to contemporary music on mixed programs is probably much closer to 5% or less. I was just reading Liszt in Germany. In 1840 Liszt was giving recitals every couple of days, largely filled with his own music and that of his contemporaries. Now, elite pianists like Trifonov, Wang, and Lang give recitals that could be identical to ones Lizst played 200 years ago. From the Bachtrack article you cite, the top programmed works is a fight among dead men. How far back would we have to go in time to find any living people on that list? I'm glad you're feeling optimistic about it but I feel like we have a long, long way to go. FYI KZbin is 54% male, 44% female according to Statista.

[@saadhaddadmusic]

It’s just my opinion but I do err on the optimistic side of things. It was something I learned from a very early mentor, Samuel Adler (the study of orchestration author), and it’s stuck.

[@monicachew]

@@saadhaddadmusic I can understand that advice, and it is important to keep heart. It is also important (for me) to keep advocating which means not being too satisfied with these minimum efforts. Glad you are making music.

[@saadhaddadmusic]

@@monicachew keep advocating! I’m not telling anyone to stop! I’m putting this video out there to show that there is momentum in the right direction. It did not always used to be that way.

[@contrustmusic]

Contemporary Music is the classical music for the accordion. It is way too important to bring to an younger audience! Music teachers - let your students improvise, compose and try new sounds! To push the boundaries is developing so many musical skills :)

[@alexchristodoulou]

I’m not surprised by the growing percentage of living composers. If this doesn’t grow even more, the orchestras will become museums and young audiences will just stream.

[@saadhaddadmusic]

It’s a promising stat!

[@nof9395]

10/10 videos on this channel. straight into the facts and then some commentary and a conclusion.

[@saadhaddadmusic]

I try my best, thank you!

[@minervaselysium137]

I think most of the rise of contemporary music data actually comes from film music and videogame music. Which is technically correct but some people never group them together. Bachtrack has JOhn Williams as number 1 but Arvo Part is number 2 I would think a ton of other composers (Film or Games) would be in there before we even get to see a few composers like Thomas Ades. it would be interesting to see the actual numbers.

[@saadhaddadmusic]

Go to 2022’s bachtrack stats. Besides JW, who also writes a lot of his own music outside of film, the rest on that list are composers that write mainly outside of media.

[@seemsfamiliar]

my teacher timo and i talk about your videos and both agree that what you do is important. i was exposed to your channel purely through the algorithm, i think at first from your score videos. i was surprised to hear later that a lot of my professors know you outside of any social media. i think that a lot of young people find out about classical music through the algorithm so your videos add to accessibility in my opinion. cheers

[@saadhaddadmusic]

You’re fortunate to have Timo Andres as a teacher!

[@garaughty]

Lovely work on this, brilliant insights Saad !

[@saadhaddadmusic]

you're very kind, thank you!

[@guerinopanfili6]

Here’s our local lineup coming up… The 2 big 6s, The Music of Queen, Tone Poems… such a desolate neighborhood. KZbin is a lifeline.

[@GaryRuschman]

Just popping in around their website, and Bachtrack is missing what I'd call the majority of classical music performances in the United States. For example, a search of Minneapolis only netted MNOrch concerts, a search in Cincinnati only netted CSO shows. No choral concerts. No chamber music. No ballet. No opera.

[@saadhaddadmusic]

I had a feeling they are missing many, though the sample size seemed large enough to make a comparison between 2013 and 2023 warranted

[@adavidcompo]

Here in Montreal, orchestras are slowly (some much slower than others) changing gears towards presenting a wider diversity of orchestral music, like lesser known works in the repertoire, but also arrangements and new compositions, some concerts aimed for younger audiences in different venues than the big concert halls. And I’ve found my work as a composer and arranger in the last ten years being more and more diverse. Like you say, I don’t think it’s in decline, but definitely changing! Oh, and also, the gender analysis of KZbin has to be taken with a grain of salt : by default profiles are set to men! Recently discovered your channel, love the content 🙂

[@saadhaddadmusic]

Very kind of you to say - I didn’t know about the YT default I will look more into that. I’m a believer in incremental change in regards to this subject and glad you are noticing the changes as well anecdotally. And welcome to the channel :)

[@fuvbk6230]

The new glasses fit very good :)

[@saadhaddadmusic]

It was time 🤣

[@AjStillabower]

Frank Zappa probably thinks it smells funny…

[@saadhaddadmusic]

🥸

[@ericleiter6179]

Like a rancid Sears Pancho!

[@PabloGambaccini]

Classical music of dead people is becoming more and more boring for audiences. Aren't you tired of listening another cover of beethoven's 5th? 😂 I just think ot should be balanced for growth, if not the accademia dies, as it looses it's contact with the present and the future. I'd say 80% of the programs should be of living composers (not necessarily avant gard) and 20% dead composers to inspire the new productions with old mastery and excellence. They could also change that 20% of dead music, in order to explore not so known works, in order to add also a bit of re-discovery. 💪

[@gexahedrop8923]

it's always in decline