Is Esports Dying?

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Is everything you know and love dying right before your eyes?
Let’s find out.
Written & Hosted by: Keith Capstick (@KeithCapstick)
Edited by: Connor Dunn (@connordunn_)
Produced by: Danny Burke (@lurkeyburke) & Keith Capstick (@KeithCapstick)
Music used under license from Associated Production Music LLC (”APM”).
All footage courtesy of: pastebin.com/a...
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[@keithcapstick]

Alright what does everyone think? Doomsday or nah?

[@seavs1]

nope

[@apersona9379]

Yes

[@Beamer2ez]

nah, orgs just need better money management and have multiple income streams, more than just winning tourneys, 100T is doing it pretty right so far, Content Creation + Sponsors + Proof of Concept + Collaborations + Other companies that have larger profits like Juvee and Highground, all around smart org and the Team behind it knows what they are doing without seeming to boast or die out

[@HeavySpark]

Video games come and go, a TSM League of Legends fan couldn't care less about TSM in Fortnite. Boomer investors persuaded because really high counts for whatever hottest game popularity at the time.

[@WtfBarbaryLion]

Bro you're back

[@Xynth25]

E-Sports has never been what people want to believe that it is. It's a bubble. It's a niche product. It's not profitable, players are paid too much, and it's oversaturated by games. There'll be a bloodbath as leagues start failing and a few games manage to hold on.

[@Timi7272]

Pro Players retire at like 30 years old, the salaries have to be atleast somewhat high for someone to go pro and do that fulltime. Not that you can't find a new job after your career, but still.

[@quimartolas12]

it's a bubble 🅱️

[@Wardenaz]

League is dying 👍

[@alayerlp]

Not all of them, dota2 is maybe the best example but not free of criticism, tournament prizes go directly to the org and players and for the most part it's self sustaining but at least isn't a bubble

[@johnsonspark171]

Spot on. Name one e-sport that is relevant and not likely to shut down in five years. Overwatch? Fucking DEAD. LoL? Dying. CSGO? Boomer shit. Halo? LOL. DOTA? Never heard of it. COD? Console e-sports are the definition of irrelevant. Valorant? Maybe.

[@Vexiong]

The thing with esports is that beginning in 2018, it began to ballon and create a bubble that would eventually explode. It peaked in 2020 with Covid, leading to streaming and esports growing an exponential amount. The bubble has simply burst and things are returning to pre 2018 standards. This economy in esports was never sustainable, and orgs went wild with their spending expecting the industry to keep growing at the same rate.

[@rollin60z]

That's like most industries 😂 Only the businesses who managed their risks responsibly will survive. Still months of rough times to come

[@PrivateJoker0119]

@@rollin60z correct, Technology sufferred a lot as well due to this, there are many layoffs from facebook, microsoft, twitter and many others recently

[@brazzb761]

Something worth mentioning is covid actual hurt all orgs, the views peaked but the money dropped. This is just the trough

[@thesadarsenalfan3319]

e-sport was growing before 2018 (specially on the moba and hardcore fps scene) but i get yout point i think (Danish television showed league of legends back in 2013). Covid blew up everything hobby related from pokemon to comics/manga to gaming. So thats nothing special for gaming in perticular. So maybe i dont get your point tbh. The imortant question to ask imo are, whats the difference between e-sport and sports in turns of income? In short the whole structure, a league system formed over 150 years, big tv deal, the clubs facilitates the games (and get income from it). I personally dont think that e-sport with the current structure for tournaments, facilitating of games and with people watching it for free on twitch, you never gonna get the tv deals you see in sport or income for facilitating games. If the e-sport scene keep this structure its not like its gonna die, but its never gonna compete with sports in terms of vievewship, income etc

[@PrivateJoker0119]

@@thesadarsenalfan3319 i think his point was esports exploded big time during the pandemic, and this made gaming companies into thinking its going to continue upwards thru the next few years, so they invested lot of money for growth Unfortunately, things are now back to normal and some companies basically spent all those investments for nothing,

[@DaisyTheSadboi]

I think the esports scene is very bloated in a lot of ways. In some ways that's good, but I also feel like eventually the fat will drip off and it will be reduced to a franchise situation just like traditional sports, and it will lose some of that "everyman" passion. I know for me, one of the most endearing things about esports was that you and your friends could create a team and enter into a sunday competition without the pretense that you will become the next Optic or FaZe. If you did, great, but you wouldn't be sinking 6 figures a month if you didn't. It will be interesting to see what happens going forward for the industry.

[@keithcapstick]

This is a really good take, thanks for sharing it.

[@Teddy-se8qb]

na is the region for content creators. asia/europe is the region of esport competitors. 2 different mindsets. and esports wouldnt be "dying" in na if they were winners. its like claiming soccer is a dying sport when football (real football) is the #1 sport in the world. its not a dying sport. we americans just suck at it.

[@waffen98]

I could not disagree any more and what's happening with LA Gladiators and LA guerillas is the proof that this just Isn't the case, Stan Kroenke literally rather shut down his teams than run them even though he is a multi billionaire, if he can't sell their CDL & OWL teams they will just cease to exist by the end of the year even though he paid like 20+ million for both and he rather just give that up than keep it running, so no franchising has absolutely not worked in anyway and I can't for the life of me understand how a person can come to this conclusion,. It will die as no one makes money and the economy is down the drain.

[@structures5010]

@Kimi Timoskainen th is is a really good comment. Really one of the big things that it boils down to is covid and traditional sports. COVID blew up streaming and many e-sports orgs saw massive growth in KZbin and other types of content. Many orgs backed by investors who saw the potential to turn e-sports into a massive sports like industry have been hard pressed. As the world has gone back a bit more to normal we've seen many game's viewing numbers normalize on all platforms. Less views, less money. Hence we see many content creators getting pushed out of orgs. As someone that grew up watching / playing CS1.6 / CS:S / quake 3 and quake live it's a bit sad to see so many leagues go the franchise mode. Understandably businesses wanted massive investment, and franchising your league, similar to what professional sports has done, brings in start up money. That does take quite a bit away from the organic growth we saw many league go through over the last few decades. You're a fan of team X because they've been around for so long, you grew up in the area, or their general mystic. In many cases e-sports should go back to a bit of their roots and follow more of a golf / tennis / soccer model. Play well and win, get relegated up. Play poorly and lose. As a fan of golf it's so cool to see a player who grinded their way up through the ranks and wins a tournament on the PGA Tour, for example. E-Sports across games tried to short -cut that and move to franchises but i just dont think thats something that anyone can short cut. People love the Lakers because of their history, they've earned it. Same with the Bulls, Cowboys, Steelers, and other prominent teams across the sporting world. Faze and Optic might be two organizations that have "earned" that mystic at least in the games that i've followed casually over the years. Games that want leagues to grow should focus on organic growth -- setup tournaments that many people can participate in. Get "challengers" level teams involved, let one of them make a run! Gaming needs that type of growth and mystic. We see it in European soccer and Golf all the time.

[@ethosterros9430]

I used to love pro league but it hasn't meant a damn since 2016. Its all suits and politics now but the quality of games has gone way down and none of the teams or players feel relevant, and the ones that could be get shafted by politics.

[@Saint-ng6ei]

Unpopular Opinion: Franchising kills the competitive scene in a particular game. Lets say Valorant for example, when franchising became a thing, Organizations started disbanding. The fact that Riot chose certain teams to play for VCT making amateur teams fight for a slot made aspiring esports organizations give up. Eventually killing the entirety of the Valorant community all in all.

[@ethosterros9430]

Yea actually. Leagues feel completely shifted the same season it got franchised. It wasnt about the players or the competition anymore it became all about money and contracts. Esports sold out just like how bioware sold out to ea. They tried to make it sound good but it crashed and burned cuz no one cares about the thing itself.

[@flurinjenal374]

Interesting! So why do they do this?

[@Lelacjer]

I think it’s important in terms of long term viability to remember that right now Esports is somthing young people watch pretty exclusively, but as we (those who enjoy esports now) get older, younger kids will turn our age and very likely will also enjoy esports. the only difference being now the older people will be us and many of us will still enjoy esports. Just a thought

[@Azian_Euroz]

Seems pretty accurate to me. I just wonder what the drop off of "older" adults will be with how many give up gaming due to other priorities. Especially for games that are newer and they've never played instead of mainstays like CS or LoL.

[@jerico1299]

You have quite the optimistic take right there. But, I do love me some optimistic takes.

[@Lelacjer]

@@Azian_Euroz same, that will be interesting to see, I can see our generation taking esports into a role that football plays right now for people, (I don’t think it will be ever close to as big) A competition based entertainment that you regularly watch on nights/weekends

[@davemccombs]

Lol it's so cute to read shit like this from kids who don't know what's coming yet

[@DragonthornX]

The only way that esports can survive is if the players and coaches can do it part time and have lesser pay. Professional sports started out that way where players had day jobs.

[@MrMintyfreshsmell]

I think the reason esports isn't doing quite as well as other sports is because it's entirely based on the game and if the game is fun, popular, and entertaining to watch. Currently, the gaming industry is filled with broken, half-baked games, and no one wants to watch people play bad games. There's also the issue of the game aging and losing its player base over time.

[@Donovarkhallum]

Subjective as I find all sports boring as fuck.

[@screayx]

Im sorry, but this argument sucks. Yes, there are a lot of unfinished games coming out, but those games are not the esports games. Cs, League, R6, Rocket League, Valorant, all the big esports games are titles that have either already been out for a long time or are here to stay. There wont be a new League coming out every year, the esports scene is quite cut off from the rest of the gaming community.

[@KurtIsFat]

Streaming vs being a pro you can't be both

[@DatBlockSG]

@@screayx No, I think he's kinda right, the esport scene always depends on the casuals of the game. Who is watching the Matches, who are the fans of the Orgs. Who is making the game popular. Without the Casual players of the game, the professional scene will decrease immensely or die. So at the end, if the game isn't fun for the casuals anymore, the Esport scene will decrease. So at the end the esport depends on somewhat at the fun of the game.

[@screayx]

@@DatBlockSG Yes I understand that if the game is shit there wont be viewers. But what he is talking about is new releases of games which are unfinished, which have literally no impact on the established esports.

[@punkmaster258]

Is really the question of "Is E-Sports dying" as a whole or is it "Is E-Sports dying in the West or in NA tops"? Because in Asian region E-Sports is booming more than ever - content creation, memes, gameplay and many more are very active all across social media not just concentrated in Twitch, discord and YT. Maybe the lifestyle, standards of people and location of the players, investors, audiences and 3rd party supporters outside of E-Sports community plays a bigger role if E-Sports in certain location will thrive.

[@punkmaster258]

@Kimi Timoskainen thats good then.

[@watermage25]

NA esports teams have much more opportunities at fundraising then Asian or European teams. So if it is dying in NA its dying everywhere. Don't confuse competitiveness with profitability.

[@made13145]

@@watermage25 NA dying cause they barely win shit. Just like If Manchester City after burning all those money and still only 15th in standings then that club will be dying. I guarantee you, if NA can consistently win TI, CSGO Major, or LOL WORLD then those NA teams will be swimming in sponsors money.

[@watermage25]

@Kimi Timoskainen thats because the NA teams bave been able to get VC funding and sponsorships unlile EU an Asian teams. Theres a really good video by DongHuaP

[@juliantan4943]

​@@watermage25 thats the most L take ive heard

[@jmabejero5255]

I think this kind of videos helps young people how esports actually work and what can be the future of it.

[@rapgodmaster6592]

The real problem nobody points out is that at the end of the day, none of these games are even self sustaining for a long term sports setting. For example, fortnite esports. There’s 2 other major battle royale games that compete esports wise, being pubg and apex, but there are probably even a few more im forgetting. There’s one main basketball league (nba in the us at least), and everything gets funneled through that basically. And the video game marker is always expanding as well. You basically never see new sports explode like how new games explode. Maybe a few hundred years down the line when some developers make a game that they can bring across platforms and keep alive forever, but the rapid pace of triple A games only brings us further. The only way for an esport to last is if a game is made with the intention of being an actual sport, and not just a product. But that’s likely not going to happen as it’s too big of an industry risk.

[@hellowill]

It's gone from competitive gaming to streamers/influencers. I mean back in the day, the biggest gamers were Koreans living in team houses... grinding 50 Brood War games a day. Now its kids who just care about clout.

[@willdallly8271]

people used to work from home and watch esport / play games on the daily, now we have to go back to the office we can''t keep up with pro games time

[@ThreatLevelMDNGHT]

I think valve is currently offering one of the best support systems for orgs themselves in the form of major items. these items can make teams milions of dollars for competing in a single tournament. by reserving spots for different regions this also means that teams from smaller regions will still be able to grow via this tournament money

[@juliantan4943]

Yeah but that doesnt really help ? Think of it this way Valve hasnt actively done anything for CS in quite awhile? The esport scene is clearly fading from CS, due to lack of support and is only propped up by 3rd parties and the community The sticker thing isnt even a CS thing, League Apex R6 Dota they all have something similar

[@ThreatLevelMDNGHT]

@@juliantan4943 what dota has is far from similar lmao, that money goes straight into the TI pool. pro CS is thriving and all without a fucking franchise league by the devs. cs doesnt need constant balance changes because its already good. it would be like "patching football" if valve were gonna do the same kind of shitty updates that games like league, dota or valorant get. CS even got a new 3.6milion dollar prize pool event spanning over a year, with qualifiers all the way in t3 and t4 pro cs. the fact is that cologne premium tickets were sold out within a minute, and there was a fully stacked Lanxess arena last year. even the player count keeps hitting new highs.

[@sagedatuin4969]

I wouldn't say esports is dying, I just think it is in a lower point in its cycle ever since the 2016-2017 esports gold rush. We will recover from it, but I think placing some more focus into the things that actually make money compared to overinflating salaries will be better. I also think eventually getting to a point where these franchised leagues can build larger stadiums. ie: LCS studio adding more seats for VAL and LCS leagues or placing more emphasis on advertisments, then it will get better.

[@TheRealSquirre1]

What confuses me honestly more than anything is the massive salary players get. It's kind of like what we've seen for years now with the US mens vs womens soccer team, same with the WNBA compared to the NBA, where the potential for earnings is lower for the teams so the potential salaries are lower for the players. Hell, even a lot of Olympians have day jobs because being among the best in the world at their sports doesn't pay enough to make a living because their sports don't generate much cash for anyone. Even something crazy like 50% of top 10 rated track and field athletes for the US make less than like 15k a year. I get that esports tend to have a larger viewer base than say shot put but I'd be real curious to see the ROI for players salaries.

[@lau6438]

Esport has always been a bubble, and everyone with their eyes open could see such. The real question is how esports will become profitable, as to succeed going forward.

[@vansohren4474]

Esports kind of reminds me of automotive racing (my background) nascar , f1 , off road , sprint cars , boats you name it it doesn’t really matter how many sponsors you have and shirts you sell you at best break even and 99% of the time lose money … it’s for the trophy’s you don’t really win anything in the end … but rich people like to fund it and you know why ? Not to make money but because it’s cool. Kind of what you explained in this entire video

[@EsportsStoryteller]

I certainly don't think it's dying, the only concern is that we have 1-3 new esports titles every year, and the audience seems to spread really thin across dozens of different games. That's a bit concerning in some way, because while esports audience is growing, it's not really infinite.

[@KalebCBauer]

I would like your personal opinion on this topic; I agree that the audience is spread pretty thin due to many games existing in the industry, but if we were to coordinate the professional gaming industry as to have a LoL match on a Tuesday, a Valorant match on Thursday and a Fortnite game on Saturday; would this provide a structure allowing audiences to know when a game will be streamed, and because there is no overlap in the screening of these events, it would also incentivize LoL fans to watch another eSport, gaining traction in multiple games at the same time? I am curious to know your thoughts.

[@JoyKazuhira]

eSports isn't dying, the orgs are after turning eSports into business. eSports and tournaments before is different from today.

[@shun9240]

Well technically it is a job so you gotta make profit

[@LunaPPK]

Esports dying is nothing but good to me while i don't want or 100% gone it losing some mind share is great. Its part of the reasons games have lost they soul outside montization.

[@JYMBO]

when you said "they will still sell skins regardless if esports lives or dies" that is true but i do think esports has a direct effect on skin sales too, Nobody used to rand and rave about the RGX Sword until TenZ said it was his favourite (at the time) and used it in all his games, i also remember everyone hating on the Wasteland bundle when that came out and then Shroud came out and said it was his favourite bundle ever and him waiting for the vandal to come into rotation in his shop became a meme and suddenly i see everyone buying it and using it and making tweets and reddit posts about being happy they finally got it etc... so yeah whilst they would still sell skins regardless i think esports can play a large part in people purchasing choices too

[@millyyeasmin7904]

Valorant has no skin economy

[@intifadayuri]

Esports is about passionate folks who want to try themselves against other passionate folks, this corporate bs about wanting to make it spectacular and a "world class" thing is a mere smokescreen. Just look at the overwatch league, millions and millions poured into trying to manufacture an "esports scene" and it died the day later that blizzard decided it wasn't a good investment

[@IndiesharkR]

Yes and no. Esports as a whole will never die out as long as people want to play videogames competitively. I think what we are seeing is pushback, the scene being bloated, boring, lack of passion, and so on. I will stand on this ladder for a league in Esports to fully be interesting to watch it should never be a franchise league like traditional sports. (Call me a boomer whatever). For stuff like the NFL, NHL so on they have history to go off of. Grassroots seeing generation attend those games together. And yes there is the same teams there every year but people feel genuine connection. Why should I care about Immortals being legit bottom feeders league every year with real consequences. They're just gonna do the same old moves in the offseason. Why should an Immortals fan care there is nothing at stake. For Esports it should always be promotion/relegation or circuits. I will give my take as a NAVI fan. Recently we were relegated to division 2. And the fans while we will still support the hell out of them are disappointed. For the CSGO team I love seeing them compete in different tournaments because it provides almost an Gran Prix like event sorta like what Smash and FGC has. But like 24 Hours of Le Mans, Grand Tours of UCI, there are events that stand alone. And fans of McLaren, Jumbo-Visma root for them because they have some sort of history. There isn't anything like that it franchise leagues and they lack passion. The people are going to leave a team because they got relegated will never be fully invested in the league as a whole in general. And Esports seem to forgot what got them to the "boom" in the first place and that is the passion.

[@minicritman999]

Dota 2 just let’s the fans fund 90% of every event.

[@anna-gt2mu]

A

[@anna-gt2mu]

A

[@jefflum4040]

It’s definitely gonna have a “recession” but I hope that it’s the push we need to make this industry profitable. Right now it’s so propped up by billionaire payrolls without that money pulling out there’ll never be any insensitive to change

[@KalebCBauer]

I personally believe that eSports has a potential future, but only if the population can stop comparing eSports to traditional sports; soccer, basketball, etc. Although eSports as a concept is a more niche idea due to it being directed towards kids/teenagers entertainment, it is possible to create a system that isn't specified to an age range, but is rather incentivizing it's viewers to watch this program/eSports event for "a reward". If true progress is to be made, then the direction to look is not at other organizations or businesses that have found "success", but to understand that the success of something is dependent on the passion of the individual. If Ludwig can manage to stay mentally strong and continues to show the passion for the project, then we may very well see the success of the eSports industry as a whole. Stop looking at how eSports will fail, starting looking at the ways it can succeed!

[@flurinjenal374]

Awesome, yes!

[@bomj-valera]

Idk why everyone started to think that Sports = eSports. Sports like soccer have existed for centuries and make billions on well established investments and orgs. eSports is like what, 20 years old? And for some reason some players get paid insane and unreasonable salaries.

[@southbayedub]

I am thoroughly impressed with this entire comments section. Thoughtful opinions on the business of esports. Well done, fam.

[@williams11372]

You are impressed by a bunch of people that have never owned a business giving opinions on how a business can be successful..... sad 🤣🤣🤣🤦‍♂️

[@macisr]

This is what happens when you start paying players way above market value. Now every team is struggling to pay those high salaries when the sport itself can't generate that amount of revenue. I think that DSG has the right idea by reducing those salaries to a much more sustainable level. Dudes were expecting covid to last forever.

[@bobbobby5089]

Esports was never alive…. They don’t have stadiums that make the teams profit they don’t make commission on anything, they take cuts from players after tournaments and if your team isn’t good they don’t make any money, and with the buyin on how much it cost to just get in the leagues and the small amount of money that goes to the companies if your team does win every tournament you’re seeing a fraction on what you paid to get back, your team would literally need to run the table for like 4/5 years straight just to get back your initial investment to get into the league that’s before paying players getting sponsors getting locations etc. unless you’re an established old school team like or optic faze that already had a huge brand before making a move into the leagues when it cost relatively nothing to join its dumb to invest in. It took optic I think 12 years before it became profitable. No one wants to wait that long especially billionaires that only care about the money. 100 thieves will be the next to fall because of where they are located and the prices taxes etc. they already laid off a 3rd of their company. I wouldn’t doubt if we see faze clan fall in the next 3-5 years too because their ipo was not successful at all. And their owners took small niche deals instead of investing in the future.

[@Bandit51]

I think that its going to do better in the future. We are overcoming the barriers of our investment groups not being the target market of esports itself. Esports does not attract the older generation because the product is not marketed to that generation. Video Games are marketing to younger players, as those teens grow up and get into these areas of investment, they will be able to drive the passion project forward, and there will be new integration for esports

[@KratostheThird]

The investment groups are Boomers and Gen Xers. So it's no wonder why they're not interested in eSports.

[@guniohhashi8219]

I think the something to keep in mind is the ease of access between sports/esports With a lot of sports, soccer for example, ANYBODY with a ball can play it, practice it, understand it, and enjoy viewing it. The "paywall" so to speak is an inflatable ball and your free time. With a majority of esports, you are REQUIRED to have a variety of equipment. Even the "cheapest" games require you to have a console, a copy of the game, and good internet connection. The bar to play, practice, understand, and view, all become put behind a wall of hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars of equipment, hence why esports fails to appeal to a wider audience.

[@guniohhashi8219]

you could argue that sports like golf also require a variety of equipment, which costs lots of money, and to that, I say fk better argument: sports been around for way longer so people know what its like, give esports some time

[@maxiumlin6705]

@@guniohhashi8219 Almost all the biggest esports are free to play and runs on potatos, in contrast, lots of traditional sports require expensive gear, equipment, and even an entire facility to play anywhere near competitively. So, yeah, it's just a case of esports being not popular enough and traditional sports got hundreds of years to engrain itself into the culture and economy. Another problem is that we as players take the free to watch aspect of esports too much for granted. When traditional sports make you pay to watch, run tons of ads, and takes government money for their stadium, we players are still here seething over merch being 5$ too expensive or complaining about how the production is so bad the League must be killing it self.

[@prxtryhard9683]

@@guniohhashi8219 to that argument you can say golf is not even top 10 popular sports lol

[@tubbyidk1474]

i think an issue with the current most popular esports rn is how difficult they are to get into with no priot experience. csgo is kinda confusing, but then theres overwatch

[@shadowrayTV]

I can't believe that ludwig got to say "gushes and comes in their little pants" on the score esports channel

[@spoofy8867]

In my opinion the biggest problem with esports is that there is so much of it spread throughout too many titles. Every second game coming out wants to build up its own pro scene and a lot of games that currently have a pro scene really shouldn’t have one. There are titles like CS:GO, Rainbow Six Siege, LoL, Rocket League etc that make sense as a Esport both from a competitive and viewer perspective especially in contrast to regular sports. Other games on the other hand, most notably CoD, Halo and Apex, to me at least can be hard to keep track of and certain strategies and game-plans in a match aren’t very transparent to a lot of casual viewers

[@flurinjenal374]

Why is it a problem that it is spread to many titles? People can stick to the ones which work best for esports and play them competitvely / in organized competition while other games operate in the market too.

[@spoofy8867]

@@flurinjenal374 the problem isn’t that there’s plenty of options, the problem is there is TOO many options fighting over a limited fan base, combined with ridiculous spending and investment

[@flurinjenal374]

@@spoofy8867 🤔

[@spoofy8867]

@@flurinjenal374 Esports viewership-wise is big, but in relation to the amount of content there is it’s actually quite finite. There could be anywhere from 30 to 100 different esport events running at any given time. Think the Olympics except with maybe 2-3 million potential viewers instead of the 2-3 *billion* guaranteed viewers the Olympics gets. On top of that, outside of major international events in about 6-7 different scenes, most local league events struggle to get more than 30-40k viewers at best and even then most international events rarely pull more than 200-300k viewers. In TV terms, those numbers would mean esports would be dropped in its entirety, or at least 2-3 scenes would be given all the focus and TV rights. As the saying goes, *You can have too much of a good thing*

[@jzuni001]

I think the one thing esports is lacking is the live game experience. I know they do stadium events for championships, but I would like to see this happen way more often. Tour with the best players in the world, I guarantee it will build life long fans. Make the games a family friendly experience and the money will pour in. There's something exciting about being in person vs watching esports while sitting on your couch in your pjs. lol

[@philippemanuel9575]

It's still going. Talk about the fighting games and esports. More important than the team ones.

[@k45207]

12:09 this has always been my biggest concern. Being a big COD fan in e sports the developers seem to take little to no interest in it even after franchising teams at an insane cost because it is such a small fringe group that follows the e sport compared to people that just play call of duty

[@magicjack4076]

Problem about a creator backed esport is that one tiny bit of controversy then everything comes crashing down

[@HeyTaXi]

eSports has come a long way, since when I was a young kid going down to our local grocery store for a little Super Nintendo LAN tournament. Even as I grew up it was never a "this could be a job and pay the bills" industry. It gradually moved that way and I think a lot of the help it received to move that way was from streaming. Streamers/Content Creators opened up the eSports industry to tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of people through streaming and making content on things within the gaming industry. This causes an increase in sponsors and ad revenue from those sponsors, etc. I think eSports will continue to grow and move into new tournaments involving VR and augmented reality through industry breakthroughs. The further technology of the eSports industry progresses the more doors open for avenues of revenue. eSports is still in its infancy in the grand scheme of things. Current eSports orgs are paving the way for the success of the future by being the guinea pigs to wade through the failures and losses. It may be difficult for an eSports org to make a profit in all 4 quarters of the fiscal year currently, but eventually I think they will and do it continually.

[@ethanfletcher2112]

I'm a 100T fan through and through I look forward to them reaching their perfect balance of passion and profit in the future 👌

[@Scarecrow9484]

The strategy ive seen used and that I have used myself is run a pro team that brings you sponsors, ads, content creation, merch, etc and then run smaller teams that give you tournament win money, overall that has been profitable so far and hopfully my team will continue to do well and stay profitable. Pro teams are expensive but bring in sponsors which support your growth long term while cheap teams run tournaments and bring in tons of small cash to make you profitable and bring in money on a short term basis.

[@imDuzzy]

this dude always on the verge of tears

[@DogeickBateman]

He's being held at gunpoint by aliens

[@ShaunInce123]

He also sounds like Kermit the frog.

[@AgingsAProblemTFT]

@@ShaunInce123 i agree but im not sure if you're saying that's a bad or a good thing. i like his voice

[@wakkawakkagaming3710]

Its a normal economic cycle: product becomes mainstream, product brings in investors, product peaks in value, product becomes oversaturated, investment decreases. This process will basically cycle until the market dictates a balanced value for the product, at which point its cost to produce and price to purchase becomes fairly consistent.

[@jeppppppppp]

Franchising is killing the scene, when the competition is killed and nowhere is at risk of relegation. People started getting bored because some players are not trying so hard and acting cool saying they are still getting paid millions even if not winning. Only games I enjoyed watching today are DOTA, CSGO and APEX where you feel the passion for players. Also them F**kin up RICK FOX from the scene, the only Sports athlete who is fighting for E-Sport's scene and standing in the society really tooked a heavy hit. ALmost all investors are leaning towards E-Sports, if you look at it closely its on the roll until they F''ed up RICK FOX.

[@pRopaaNS]

RLewis and thorin have been warning and talking about this problem for years. Especially in recent ones, in response to continuously increasing sales pitch for esports and continuously growing player salaries. The esports bubble. I wish it finally pops, so that all the bad actors only interested in it for money gets out.

[@ashleytyraisaacs]

eSports has a huge audience of people who don't have any money. Traditional sports have fans who can actually buy merchandise and the scope of that merchandise is huge. From Tupperware to cars. But eSports? That's a huge demographic of young people who already spend a bunch of money on their own games.

[@Americanbadashh]

That's why they sell skins for teams in games, but it's likely not enough

[@ashleytyraisaacs]

@@Americanbadashh it definitely isn't. You can technically watch most sports and major teams for free. If you want merch, then you can buy anything from stickers to actual statues. If you want to play the sport, at most, all you need is a ball. So participating in sports financially is really easy, wide, and accessible But games? Fans already spend hundreds just for their own copy of games, hundred more for a system to play it on. That's before investing in any sports team and the only thing that can actually be bought is skins, the occasional t shirt, and tickets to a handful of tournaments

[@Tofuey]

Esports is trying to grow too fast. Thats simply it. It needs many more years of gamers growing up and and better amateur foundation.

[@ElBayadKhalil]

esports is structured more like cycling. The majority of cycling teams' revenue come from sponsoring. Maybe in the future orgs will sell their name to a sponsor. For example instead of G2 it will be renamed logitech

[@Beamer2ez]

Orgs just need better money management and have multiple income streams, more than just winning tourneys, 100T is doing it pretty right so far, Content Creation + Sponsors + Proof of Concept + Collaborations + Other companies that have larger profits like Juvee and Highground, all around smart org and the Team behind it knows what they are doing without seeming to boast or die out

[@Xx_Stogi_xX]

After watching Katowice for CSGO, nope. Especially seeing CSGO peaking at 1.3 million active players recently, nah i'm not convinced.

[@ayayaya5365]

Only Csgo and LoL is Never Dying But other game Esports is Dying

[@sjorahx5651]

@@ayayaya5365 More like CS and Dota 2. ✌️

[@TopFlightGarage]

Esports is not dying , GAMING is not what it used to be. Developers used to take pride in the game. When you bought it, you got a FULL GAME. Not some broken bs. You got full campaign, great multiplayer. No pay to win. Just gaming and shit talking

[@zizi393]

Actually in franchise style esports they should put in prize pool based off sponsors. A look into f1 for example, around 1-2billion of prize money collected by f1 through deals with broadcast, sponsors and such is then shared with the teams. Thats what the dev need to do. Instead of streaming the content for free, they could have subscription for 5$ with exclusive competitive skins. Additionally selling broadcasting rights to esports tv. Again i’m just drawing some parallel to f1. Esports wont be as big as f1, nba, nfl, or any of the traditional sports in terms of money but by replicating some of its business practices they can maybe make it viable for orgs to make money.

[@JustAFranko]

My name is Franko, and I've been competitively playing games since I was 14 years old. I am now 18, and I really want to become at a Professional Esports player. I know this is what I want to pursue. It's my passion. It's what I breathe. Games have taught me a lot of things more than school taught me how to speak english. My first language is spanish. I have been born at Honduras and lived there pretty much my whole life. I moved the US for a better life and better opportunities to succeed. This is something I really want to do. My heart just aches from how badly I wanna be part of a team in esports. I believe I have the talent, skills, and passion to reach my dream. My whole life, I've always wanted this, I wanna be like Shroud. I want to be like Beaulo. I wanna be better than them. I want to be famous, be in front of thousands of people... lifting up that trophie. I wanna be on the big screens! Every time I close my eyes, that is all I see.

[@SlopedOtter]

The huge boom since Covid will go, but e-sports will be about for as long as there’s computers that can run CSGO

[@JakeAkstins]

Esports will always eat itself. There are always going to be new games coming out. For example, league of legends was super new and attracted a lot of people in 2012, but will it still be able to bring in the same amount of new players in 2032? Or will another newer game take its place and suck in the young audience in 2032?

[@somehobo4410]

Esports is not sports, sports have rules that stay consistent through time and doesnt change, unlike esports where games keep getting updated and so new stuff comes out which can ruin the consistency of games. When I see Mbappe do a hat trick in the world cup final, that's exciting and earned. The only game I could see this being similar to is Rocket league, any other game has the inconsistency problem.

[@Americanbadashh]

"sports have rules that stay consistent through time and doesnt change" That simply is not true. The major leagues are constantly revising the rules every season sometimes mid-season. Though if companies wanted to embrace esports more they could create a static esports build of their game, that doesn't deal with the major upsets to balance of the main game but this comes at the expense of losing the ability to use esports to push new aspects of the product to players. Minecraft could have a great esports scene given it actually allows players to download and player older versions and folks to host servers on those older versions. More games need to allow that.

[@RSkrub]

"Let's give a shit ton of money to teenagers with energy drink and video game addictions I'm sure our ROI will be fucking spectacular!"

[@jesuszamora6949]

Basically, you can't say it's dying because it's never been profitable. You're more likely to make money as a streamer than an esports athletes.

[@keithcapstick]

I think this is absolutely untrue.

[@bursky09]

The athletes make money, but the investors don't. The reason why NA e-sports orgs specifically doesn't make money is partially due to overpaying players.

[@TheOnlyWay2Go.]

It’s not the athletes that don’t make the money, it’s the orgs themselves

[@androgames3429]

Love u guys so much!!

[@ProjSHiNKiROU]

If Esports were a dying person, I would neither do CPR on it nor push it off the cliff

[@ZackShutt]

It's undeniable that E-Sports is in a dire state. The bubble has burst, there's too much competition, and players are being grossly overpaid. This has resulted in E-Sports becoming a niche product, and there are simply too many games to sustain them all. We're bound to see a lot of leagues fail in the near future, and only the most resilient games will make it out alive.

[@Quagsire9000]

I don't know if it's dying but I think Competitive gaming is alienating a lot of people who just play games for fun. Halo Infinite, and games like Overwatch and League that have to be balanced around competitive play, it makes it really annoying for casual fans.

[@adaro9235]

Informative, banging video. Keep it up!

[@xJupitrr]

Esports orgs needs establish faces and personalities from their player/members that will make popular brands notice them more, we love novelty of nerd culture, but only sponsors will make them alive

[@andresmiddagh1889]

This a great video, one of the best Ive seen from this channel.

[@jonLK47]

Dude his eyes are glassy Af 🌿

[@Rick-ww9xb]

If I look away from the screen it's like Patrick mahomes is talking. I can't unhear it now

[@xXah]

E-sports will never die. We fought over rank#1 without money not so long ago and will go back to it, if we need.

[@TY-fm8lj]

The apex teams are goated. Like they have so much potential even if they aren't the best. Most players have great personalities, that everyone loves to see

[@LaidenLaPoint]

The "Everything Bubble" is starting to deflate and unfortunately, that includes eSports. From college, the real estate market, crypto, stocks, etc. Everything has been in a massive bubble. This is the reason it feels like so many things are failing lately. The money is getting tighter for everyone. Tech companies have already laid off thousands. Retail is laying off. This is only the beginning, though. The best we can hope for is that the Federal Reserve handles things just well enough that we don't end up in a full-blown depression. As for eSports, I highly doubt it will disappear. Like many post-crash situations, there's usually a small group that survives and ultimately recovers. Personally, my bet is that Counter Strike eSports remains strong throughout the ups and downs. However, I doubt most competitive games will survive in terms of their competitive circuit. Halo Infinite's HCS tournaments have already made cut backs. They couldn't even afford casters for their B and C streams, only their A stream. I was sad to see it, as MLG already failed as a league and I'm afraid HCS is next.

[@realburungijo]

like what mark cuban said (and why he didnt involve in esport). there is alot of money to asia esport scene than west esport scene

[@KeeperCharlie]

Problem is that e sports teams are very hard to get attached to. Orgs sell and buy teams in very short amount of time, so change of name and org and even ROSTER makes the fan very hard to follow and relate to. Only positive example was League of Legends team like T1.

[@sketchtheparadigmyork1217]

Esports ruined so many gaming experiences. Games are supposed to be fun, but people take it too seriously like they think they’re gonna go pro someday.

[@Sorioku]

I swear.

[@bend4901]

I don't think its doomsday, but I think that the current model will need to change. Traditional sports make money through Ticket sales and merch, sponsors, and revenue sharing from broadcasting. Because of the digital nature of esports, I don't think ticket sales and merch will ever be enough to significantly impact revenue, and for now sponsorship deals are not nearly enough to make it profitable. Which leads to the conclusion that they need to make more from streaming, which I think they will accomplish by showing more ads during broadcasts. Can/Will it work? IDK, but its the only way forward I can see.

[@flurinjenal374]

What about digital merchandise? Like selling team-skins for ingame or something similar?

[@betlogboy3]

basically - content creator's audience carries this entire thing to advertisers. pretty much the same deal. Then the individual pros branch off to make their own content, and the circle starts all over again.

[@celtic1842]

It seems like we're esports are losing a lot of money is having multiple teams. In my opinion you only need one team to be able to play in multiple games. I think if esports company / team's only had one team they would probably end up making more money because they don't have so many players to support the less players you have the more money is going to be able to go into your pocket.

[@Agentfirestarter]

That’s not how it works. A player can be absolutely insane at Valorant But hasn’t put in much time on something like League of Legends. And if he decided to put in tons of time into league of legends. Then he wouldn’t be at his best in Valorant.

[@celtic1842]

@@Agentfirestarter I'm sorry if you're not good at multiple games then you're not worth the money.

[@adamgore1]

@@celtic1842 you cant be the best at everything how is an orgs Valorant team also going to be competitive in league ? bearing in mind that would require them splitting the time between the titles and also splitting scrim time between the games a jack of all trades is a master of none

[@celtic1842]

@@adamgore1yeah but it seems like we're most teams lose their money is on the players. Doesn't seem to be anywhere else except on the players. So if you're losing money on the players are they really worth.

[@kevinnguyen290]

E-sports will literally never ever be profitable because games come out every year and the “meta” of games change every single patch which is like every other month so people can’t perfect their craft if it is constantly changing. In sports the rules might change a little here and there like how old nba and nfl was more physical but at the end of the day it was still plain old basketball and football at the foundation. Whereas new games are completely different from one another and the meta is constantly changing so no one can ever sustain skill long enough

[@gve-tp1kd]

I got into valorant during covid but stopped watching within a year. My problem is that it’s hard to become loyal to a team - to the point where you buy merch. Rosters are just too volatile. Valorant the game itself is too volatile. It’s hard to keep up with the meta, roster changes, map strats etc when you have a life.

[@gve-tp1kd]

Another theory with esports in general, is that viewership is tied to playing the game. I stopped playing valorant before I stopped watching it. It’s much harder to appreciate what I’m watching when game becomes foreign. So what esports is asking of me is to play it and in order to watch it. That’s just too much time and effort. Just playing the game is much more independent

[@aaronmcconkey1062]

A metallica shirt, a man of culture.

[@xcy1039]

first thing i noticed lol

[@MikeMessiah]

The biggest problem with eSports is that the "sports" is not universal. The games they play is owned by a company, who can kill the sport the moment money run dries. Look at Heroes of Newerth or Paragon. All the PRO Players were left in a lurrch when the companies that own these games killed it. Another issue is the Chinese ownership of these games. Activision-Blizzard and Riot being majorly owned by China now. In India, PUBG Mobile Pro players were making millions, even winning the first world championship in Dubai, but then the Indian Govt. banned the game because of Indo-China tensions. Suddenly these rich pro-players became jobless and with zero sponsors. They all moved to Valorant (with little success) but thats another potential problem (Riot being owned by Tencent, another CCP spying company).

[@joshuamiller485]

I will forever say that csgo has the best dynamic many leagues a large easaly dynamic pyramid easy to enter and exit the market and now anyone in the world can get into the largest tornament through 3 qualifiers

[@ridinggaming3769]

Love the channel. Now to jump into the video

[@minisam1988]

The good thing along with Charlie and Lud, they aren't overtly controversial which brings in brands.

[@JakeyBoyCoffman]

I don’t think esports is dying. I think players are asking too much or “orgs” give out too much.

[@EbonMaster]

I mean its not exactly gonna be worth it for the players to put in the work plus travel to be paid like minimum wage lol

[@allanscotch4920]

but when your Org owner are LITERALLY BILLIONAIRES, that's not an excuse.

[@aplsed]

from how I see it, it could be both

[@kennedycutler]

When you compare the average player number of any game to how many players actually get to play professionally. The odds come to around 1% really make it to the professional marker. In league average player population in NA is 1.2mil concurrent, out of those 1.2mil there's only like 70 pro players. Do you think you busting your ass grinding for years and beating 1.2 million other people trying to achieve the same thing as you is worth less than 5-9k a month? There's a better chance you get a PhD and become a doctor than you fucking go pro. But for sure they're "asking" too much.

[@AgingsAProblemTFT]

@@allanscotch4920 well if the expectation is for them to lose money just because they are a "billionaire" then they will quit the business.

[@dynamitedmoney]

With recent WZ 2.0 flop and community abandoning COD/WZ that is a huge impact. Streamers/gamers are moving on to better games. Lets face it, not enough content out there, no more pandemic lockdowns inflating markets.

[@KennyKennTV]

Streaming services need to partner with e sports, produce docos on stories and teams and air the matches. People watch anything on the front page of streaming and can be chance to capitalise

[@Sp3llmen]

To me Ill always say the reason esports will never do as well as real life sports, is because video games are readily available at any age. Anyone can sit down with a controller and play the game, not everyone can get bodied by football players and keep playing. Its easier to sit and watch a sport that you cant play. But whenever I watch esports I almost always say to myself "I gotta go play now" and cant keep watching. Id rather play the game then watch. Also playing games as well as watching esports takes up a TON of time, its easier to just play it and not watch so it doesnt take up as much time.

[@ItsUzele]

I grew up in bo2 competitive days and you didn’t have salaries for teams, I think it takes away from players trying to win when they are already basically getting payed to lose 😂

[@TheOmegaRiddler]

So Ludwig's idea is basically the start up company approach. Build a product that people want to buy, sell it while it's hot and then start again.

[@letmefeelthevibes]

N°1 problem: players are overpayed way way way too much!!!! Some CS:GO players are payed over $20.000 a month, + cash prices, + stickers money, + all advantages (they don't have to pay for a place to live, nor for food, nor to travel and participate to events). Litteraly kids with no responsability nor expenses whatsoever, getting payed over a quarter million dollars a year of pocket money to play video games. If these esport organisations made hundred of millions of dollars it would be understandable, but that's not the case. They're just squandering their money and choking themselves.

[@FIYOS]

All im saying is the Player Salaries are insanely overvalued in csgo lcs and cdl too much for so little return not to mention the sheer investment to maintain the performance of these teams

[@itsjdezbitch701]

KEIIIIIIIITH!!! Glad to see you again!

[@cjhelter]

if esports dies, literally everyone would benefit (outside of the orgs themselves obvi). Everyone thinking they can go pro and sweat for hours on end ruin the game for the casual player, who also props up the games with time and money. Along with streaming, if SBMM got removed with esports in general video games as a whole would be better off IMO

[@silhouettefalcon1659]

Now this is a good content. Kudos to Esports.

[@Johnzen03]

Looks like there are quite a few orgs out there. I’m sure there will be the handful that are managed the best that will ultimately come out on top. It’s the beauty of entrepreneurship. The best ride to the top.

[@frumiousgaming]

Do any esports orgs just like… have a patreon? Letting fans give them money directly is more efficient than hoping fans will buy enough chipotle to justify chipotle sponsoring the team - and more efficient than merch too

[@Nefiria]

If you invest recklessly like Blizzard and most NA orgs, then esports is simply not sustainable. Dota2 and CS esports scenes only grew to what they are now after consistent player interest over many years for formal competition - being reacted to in kind by organizers, Valve and then organizations. The competitive AOE 2 scene nowadays is a good example of investment that suits interest garnered. If it saw superteams and franchised leagues invested in millions all of a sudden, it would be just another scene waiting to fail. Reacting and growing according to consistent success and community growth is the way for both devs and orgs.

[@DakotaTheRota]

What I will say yes Faze had a massive stock crash but so did the rest of the tech market. I feel like too often videos talking about stocks in the past year want to put blame it on specific companies and specific industries, and not on the 2020-2021 stock market bubble is being purposely obtuse. Huge amount of money from all walks of life, not just rich people, invested a lot of money in the tech industry with very little reason as to why. And yes E-sports would be counted as being a part of the tech industry. And when the "free" money from stimulus and unemployment ran out the tech industry also ran out of steam as well. I know some people will blame Tesla dropping in price on Elon, but it's just not true, the company was WAY overvalued even in 2020. This is also the same for Facebook, Apple (To a way lesser extent), and Google. Did anything in these three companies actually fundamentally change? Not really. Facebook is still going to Facebook, Apple is still Appleing, and Google is still Googling. It's also too early for these companies to disappear due to unwillingness to change with the times. Also people have been saying Esports is dying for a long time, it's also not anything new that companies don't make much of a profit if any in Esports, and that was always true. But here we are decades after companies should have disappeared but are still around. Also 100 Thieves isn't the best example because they were one of the few Gaming orgs that made money, if I am remembering correctly there was about 3 gaming orgs that made money in the 2010's until today. Most Esports teams are owned by millionaire or billionaire hobbyist that love Esports for whatever reason, and don't care and except to make a huge lost in getting to the industry.

[@garrettbellinghausen8389]

PSA to all devs… just because you made a game doesn’t mean it needs an esports scene… some games are just not meant for esports

[@conqueridk]

Yo you see the new football patch? It's crazy you can't even touch a reciever anymore