Is Filming in LOG worth it? Rec 709 vs Log - Wedding Videography Tips

[@WaywardNorth]

Are you team Rec 709 or team LOG?

[@ReinoRankaisija]

Used to shoot LOG only but lately I've moved to Rec 709 mostly because my gear and location situation has changed. I shoot a camera that doesn't do 10-bit LOG and I shoot in low light situations indoors. I feel that REC 709 is more forgiving in this specific scenario. It's hard to shoot 8-bit LOG in low light and avoid noise. It gets really noisy really fast. Right now I'm happy with REC 709 but if I had the idyllic lighting and gear I would still shoot LOG because overall it's more powerful.

[@ayrtons1572]

lol this is me, I refuse to use slog-3 10bit on my camera cause I've been getting paid with rec709 and I don't want to change whats not broken.

[@TheFilmCouple_]

Great video as always! Just found your channel recently :) I love to shoot in Canon Log (1) as it's very easy to grade and is not overly flat, but still gives beautiful 10 bit colour and best dynamic range.

[@WaywardNorth]

Thanks so much! I did experiment with C-log back when I had the R6 and I was able to get some solid results but one wedding turned out so underexposed that I switched back to a standard profile until I could get more equipped. I love LOG now!

[@aadhivramsundar8805]

It depends! For Indian weddings, most our clients want fully edited films for each event so filming in natural on the S5II has just been so much easier! I do love the vlog flexibility tho!

[@kilarisarathkumar1214]

Yeapp cannot be doing log for 3-4 hour videos 😢

[@ngonzale3]

With the S5II, Natural with contrast and sharpness settings lowered, makes an incredible image.

[@qu1nqu7n]

I recently just started color grading earlier this year after getting the A7IV, I found in davinci resolve its pretty easy so far. Rec 709 is cool, but I like Rec. 2100 also more space to tweak a lil bit in the dark/highlights/details.

[@filmandflourish]

Team V-Log here as I shoot on Panasonic. Just started filming everything in Log back in April. Practiced a few days at home. Tried it "live" for the first time at a styled shoot and I haven't looked back since then. There's definitely a refining process to figuring out colors, a new workflow, etc...but it's 1000% worth it. I don't think I'll ever film in a standard profile again haha

[@WaywardNorth]

Seriously! What’s crazy is I started exploring with Log in 2020 and got frustrated because I could never get it right lol but I’m glad I revisited it because I can’t imagine going back to standard either.

[@TheFilmCouple_]

I also shoot VLog (GH5) as our tripod camera on the ceremony (we used Canons for all the moving cameras) and found grading the Log a struggle until I used it with the Ninja V with the LUT to preview the Rec709 colour. I was then able to really get the colour temperature correct for recording and this alone made the grading so much easier. Often Panasonic colour is tricky so if dialed in well initially, the grading becomes much easier I find. GH5 is still awesome today, especially with the Ninja V, I use it with the Olympus 45mm 1.8 prime and get very sharp 4K video during ceremonies.

[@Kevintrowbridge]

Team HYBRID LOG GAMMA HLG3, so many benefits including easier to grade, more dynamic range than Rec709, easier to expose, 10-bit cameras can match 8-bit in one easy CST workflow, grades apply beautifully, and ISO125!

[@IsaacSuttleFilms]

YES. IT IS.

[@WaywardNorth]

Haha amen!

[@Dksupa94]

great video! so if I'm understanding correctly, you convert LOG into Rec 709 and then edit the colors to your liking?

[@WaywardNorth]

Yep that’s correct!

[@northlorn]

Team LOG all the way for my stuff, even back when I was using 8 bit Sony cameras. I can't speak for Canon or Panasonic cameras, but what I like about my Sony cameras is the Gamma Display Assist function, which applies contrast & saturation to your monitor while filming in LOG so you can get a better idea of what the image will look like when properly converted to Rec709. I also edit using an adjustment layer with a conversion LUT applied so I'm not staring at flat colours the entire time. I like the extra flexibility in post and how forgiving it can be if I don't nail white balance or exposure just right on the day.

[@WaywardNorth]

Gamma Assist for the win! These tools are so helpful and honestly without them I definitely would be using Rec709 profiles for sure.

[@waynosfotos]

I shoot everything in log, I have done it for years, it gives you more control but is not easy and takes lots of practice.😊. You don't need to stick to base ISO I change it all the time in log and I can't see any difference on my Canon R3. Yes it may reduce the DR but doesn't affect the grading of the image.

[@joeym4090]

I started experimenting with log and like you said it takes time to get it where you need it to be but it's fun and I can see the benefits of using it. However, s-cinetone also has its pros ans with some light tweaking can also deliver descent results as long as everything else like proper exposure etc is set correctly from the get-go. I also like Cine2. I know that people seem to have forgotten about it. Such a great profile, especially for indoors and low light. Add a Leeming lut to it and some color correction and it can still be a good PP in 2023. I love your channel. Great job!

[@WaywardNorth]

Thanks so much! Experimentation is key and finding what works best for you, what gives you the look and style youre going for, I used to use the Cine4 profile back in my A7Sii days

[@lopstream]

LOG for sure

[@Soul_Visuals_Photography]

gone down that clog 3 rabbit hole. I’ve tried every conversion LUT available. Bought many too. I’ve tried cinema gamut and bt709. I’ve tried alllll the colour luts too. Those are typical ok. But. I cannot get a look anywhere like I can with out shooting log on my R6 ii and r5. I just LOVE the look right out of camera. It’s super sharp! Love the colours. But, I cannot get a different or my own style look. Every time I shoot in log there’s this like grain, almost like a noise that I see that bothers me so so much. So it’s looking like my next wedding that I’m shooting in two weeks will be shot in a standard picture profile.

[@ignitedvisuals]

Log is best. No doubt. I love s cinetone though. With a few tweaks the end result is great and it saves times. With the amount of work put into a wedding film already I don't prefer the extra step in grading 😅

[@JaymesMedia]

Love the video. I’m definitely an F-Log2 shooter but sometimes I debate about doing a wedding in Eterna, especially if it’s a small wedding.

[@WaywardNorth]

Experiment on nature or something other than weddings, ya never know you could find some joy mixing it up!

[@JaymesMedia]

@@WaywardNorth I asssociate shoot sometimes and the shooter I do it for have me shoot SOOC 😅

[@JPLUSLSTUDIOS]

Hey, love your films I am curious about your exposure settings. I shoot on FX30 slog 3, where do you keep your zebra levels at and do you shoot with the display lut on? I see you use an external monitor just wondering if it's worth investing in one and using other methods for exposure like false color. I shot at 70 ire in slog3 but not really happy with it..just curious what your settings are at? Thanks!

[@WaywardNorth]

I tend to follow the exposure compensation meter on the camera and histograms over zebras or false color. I find it’s easier to read and I like to see a potential output of what my image will look like in monitor

[@enduroacademy]

Today I just got an A6700 and experimented with the Slog3... I am super stoked about the fact, that you can upload the lut inside the camera and see the final result on the screen! Super stoked about the footage as well! But man that SD card is filling so quick :D What bitrate do U usually use for let's say 4K60fps? Thank You for the valuable information for free

[@WaywardNorth]

That is so helpful! Cine EI modes on the FX30 was a game changer and really helped me dial in this new process for me. I am usually filming in the XAVC S 4k 10bt 4:2:2 mode consistently

[@jonnylau4472]

What are your exposure meter value for Slog 3 in indoor/lowlight? I realized my footages for indoor shots are rather grainy even at the higher base ISO when shooting in Slog (A7IV second base ISO:3200). Do I prioritize exposing correctly (ETTR) or keep to the base ISO for reduced grain? definitely team LOG if I could get this issue solved!

[@WaywardNorth]

It really depends on the situation but generally if I am on the A7IV or FX30, I sacrifice ISO to exposure the image properly. Even if that means more noise is introduced, this can generally be fixed with NeatVideo Plugin. The other solution is to switch to S-Cinetone for those low lit receptions

[@jonnylau4472]

Thanks! will try it out. Just wanted to also say thanks for churning out tutorial videos. You're also the inspiration for my recent video shoots! Keep it up! @@WaywardNorth

[@anthonywilliamm]

would you recommend shooting in log for 8 bit cameras? and what does s-cinetone mean? is that something u set into a picture profile?

[@WaywardNorth]

8 bit log can be tricky and give you potential banding or the image falls apart. There are some log profiles designed for 8 bit but I think it’s best to stay with a natural color profile

[@anthonywilliamm]

how about hlg3? would you recommend it?

[@Benjamin.Greenwood]

Team log but still learning lots

[@ΓιάννηςΒαρούσης]

S-log in fact is a sales gimmick.Maybe only for perfectly controlled conditions with raw records.For 99% of the time it is an impractical profile making any benefits insignificant compared to cine4 or s-cinetone.

[@bjoernfischer]

I shot log back in the sony a6500 8 bit days, so on the a7siii with 10 bit, it's like the easiest thing ever to grade that stuff. :D

[@WaywardNorth]

Oh yeah I remember the 8 bit days. That was no fun lol I’ve been really lovin the process so far!

[@benjamin.kelley]

Log all the way Jaired. Clog3 isn't the best, especially for weddings with high dynamic range scenarios, but Clog2 on the Canon C70 is amazing.

[@WaywardNorth]

Team log for the win! It’s been such a fun experiment.

[@tonimaros6943]

Is Clog3 on R6 10bit or?

[@WaywardNorth]

@@tonimaros6943 yes it is

[@Jonners]

Slog3 for me all the way.

[@geetarecipe.]

Profile picture more detailing all log

[@anamaticfilms7800]

I hate log! I use S5 and I shoot cined 2 with extra saturation and in 10 bit. Whenever I need special colour I just put lut on top and it looks very well. As a beginner log give me so much trouble and I just want less headaches.

[@WaywardNorth]

I feel that! I used to only film in s-Cinetone. Everyone has a process and if you’ve found something that works for you and your couples, no need to mess with it! Totally relate!

[@anamaticfilms7800]

Agreed! It took a while to find this out. Started with a7iii and it was a nightmare then went for canon and now I use Panasonic. U need to try them!

[@Tacuddin]

The Cinelike D2 profile is amazing. I found with VLOG even when exposed “correctly” there is still some noise in the shadows and very marginal gain in dynamic range. With other camera brands and profiles it probably makes much more sense to shoot log. But with the lumix s5 cine d2 is perfectly viable.

[@ashstonk]

defo team log

[@v_stands_for_value124]

Fujifilm i camera video film simulations or raw directly, I hate log

[@MZPCreations]

Cinelike D on the Lumix S5 has been nice. I gotta try log again. Bc I offer a preview snippet for socials within a couple weeks after the wedding, I like that cinelike d profile bc it's easier to grade. But I know to take it up a notch I need to shoot in log lol. But hey at least I'm not shooting in a natural anymore lol😂😂😅

[@WaywardNorth]

I feel that! Haha I rocked the natural profile on the GH5 for sooo long. I should have experimented more with V-log but I was also shooting 8 bit so that would have been a nightmare lol

[@pollinegarsula3774]

I thought rec 709 is just a color for log ? Or they are completely different? I am really confused

[@WaywardNorth]

Rec709 is a color space that captures color in it's natural form. Log is a flat profile designed to capture more detail in the shadows, highlights, and whites to enhance the dynamic range of the camera. Because of this, Log requires more work in post. It requires a Conversion or Technical Lut to transform it into the Rec709 space so that it looks natural. Its a complex topic but I tried to break it down.

[@EverWhereFilms]

I actually think 10 bit SLOG3 is harder for a second shooter to screw up than S-cinetone . I've had some N00B second shooters (like my wife) and all their shots were very recoverable if off, but I still blow out some highlights on non-log profiles from time to time. (When I associate shoot and they don't want Log) It's just so much more forgiving. 8bit Slog2 on the other hand 😬

[@richardnayfilms2812]

this. 100000%. It’s SUCH A MYTH that Log is harder. Literally shooting a standard profile is about the hardest thing in the world when I have to like you 😅

[@WaywardNorth]

That makes sense too! I guess it also depends on experience level overall, what tools you give them for success (I.e. monitors with lut support, log assist features, etc.) I know on the Sonys I’ve accidentally switched to the wrong ISO for a few shots before noticing and the image was totally useable. 10 bit log and all the tools we have to film in this profile definitely makes it a lot less intimidating 💪

[@martydenson_mfm]

C-Log all day. Truly a game changer.

[@WaywardNorth]

I loved using c-log with the R6. When they updated the firmware to include c-log 3 that was soooo much better in my opinion!

[@karthirangu3317]

Free lut link is not opening

[@WaywardNorth]

@@karthirangu3317 Did you get the email to download?

[@calebenson2543]

How much do you usually over expose when you shoot in log?

[@WaywardNorth]

I find that 1.3 to 1.7 is the “sweet spot”

[@calebenson2543]

@@WaywardNorth got it, appreciate it! One more question.. been watching your videos like crazy so head is spinning 😂, do you like to shoot at your lowest iso or the second high iso number?

[@dignon38]

@@calebenson2543I shoot on Sony A7Siii and FX6. If indoor, I shoot highest native ISO and outdoor shoot lowest native ISO. Keeps it simple for me and hasn’t failed me yet. I’m team LOG btw. I never shoot S-Cinetone. It’s quick and easy to use CST in Resolve and then LUT it.

[@WaywardNorth]

@@calebenson2543 It definitely depends on the lighting conditions indoors but usually I am at the high iso indoors and low iso outdoors! haha I know it can be information overload but just take it one step at a time

[@calebenson2543]

@@WaywardNorth appreciate it! Do you shoot in S-log 2 or 3?

[@keryandras]

Wait till you work with RAW :) BRAW is just something else!

[@WaywardNorth]

Ohhh yeah crazy difference. I’ve worked with BRAW once and it was crazyyyy and then back in the C200 days with cinema raw lite. My computer was fighting for its life lol

[@keryandras]

@@WaywardNorth Well, BRAW is very light on resources, you only need to make sure to store it on a fast SSD. I'm not familiar with Canon RAW.

[@atlaspower6603]

Your amazing

[@WaywardNorth]

You are too kind friend!

[@mattroelsgard]

Team Log - Panasonic V-Log and V-Log L!

[@WaywardNorth]

Love it!