Is Girl Boss Culture Toxic? Did it Create the Trad Wife Movement?

The term "girl boss" was coined by Sophia Amoruso in the early 2010s, as highlighted in her book “#Girlboss.” Since then, changing values and awareness of workplace norms and standards has come under scrutiny by Generation Z as they become a larger and larger slice of the workforce pie. Margo & Tashira discuss the ways "Girl Boss" culture affected them as they were coming up as young attorneys, and in retrospect, the ways it was harmful and counterproductive to achieving workplace equity. We also delve into whether or not Girl Boss culture is part of what started the Trad Wives movement.
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[@Lovcavs]

I like working, but I just don't want to overwork. I would rather be home part of the time, be with my kids, and take care of myself.

[@thevgirl5428]

The world would be better if all people could accept other's choices and stop judging everyone by their ideas of what life and success should look like. Everyone is a product of their experiences and the goals they want to achieve in life, and if my aspirations are different than yours, it's OK. Lastly, we must let stereotypes go and judge people based on the individual. BTW, I'm Generation X.

[@chidenisee]

The drug convo almost killed me on my walk.

[@margolindauer]

but what would your last breakfast be? that;s the real question.

[@sacha7440]

Gen Zer here! I hope you do go deeper into the conversation on the trad wife movement. I was convinced that was the life I wanted when I considered all the opportunities I wanted and having a man control my access drove me crazy. I was in relationships with two “traditional” men before and realized most of their “traditional” moms wanted out and started their own businesses. That was enough a wake up call from me. Especially being raised by a single mother who I saw gave me the best life and also had a great balance.

[@sacha7440]

I was also influence by a coach I had who was a corporate baddie and is now a homemaker and partner to a business w her husband. I definitely think it’s possible to have both and I’m striving to attain that.

[@margolindauer]

thank you for sharing. there is still so much more to unpack with the trad wife movement and i know we have just scratched the surface. we will do more on this, i promise!

[@alliasn3384]

I’m in my late 20s (I’m a millennial cusper) and there’s nothing more that I want than a corporate job. If I can make a living without being on social media, in my book I’ve won, so I make sacrifices to have my career but it’s a tough decision (and it sucks that we have to make these decisions) Unfortunately it’s come to a point where it’s getting harder to stay in the workforce if you consider issues of overworking, especially for those of us who do still want a family (high cost of childcare is a HUGE barrier), etc. I totally get why women would prefer to stay home when you have to fight tooth and nail to make it and stay in the corporate world :/

[@WhenInDoubt_Pink]

Not starting early for your last day on earth😂🤣🤣

[@chocolatchaud3011]

Great conversation. I’m 33 and my friends and I joke about being housewives. I think people have cottoned on to the fact Western women have to have thriving careers as well as doing the bulk of the housework and child rearing. The idea of giving up your career sounds very appealing. Maybe cos we’re older we’re very aware of the downsides of being in a traditional relationship (lack of freedom, being dependent on someone etc.) and so we don’t actually go down that route. Totally agree that it’s the system that needs to change. There needs to be a more shared responsibility in households and a much greater safety net, so people can have a good standard of living with the space to actually have lives as well.

[@123paramorefan]

I randomly clicked on this podcast, and did not expect the drug convo to be so hilarious at the top of the episode 😂😂 y’all are hilarious I’m already obsessed and subscribed!!!!

[@justUSpod]

Thank you so much!

[@margolindauer]

thank you! we try to have fun

[@Lovcavs]

I think we millennials can definitely learn from our younger generations.

[@micheledoblitz7798]

Such a well-deserved topic to discuss. I’m a millennial I love what Margot mentioned about how we were taught how to work by our older generations. From them, we learned that if you want it badly enough, you have to hustle. And that meant sacrifices. I have seen in my own career how this sacrifice has played out, with my career being at a standstill bc I prioritized building a family (100% worth it)! This is very much an issue in corporate America. I can appreciate Gen Z’s sentiment, and I think there is value in meditating on different perspectives without leaning too far into one extreme or another (girl boss/trad wife/etc.)

[@latoyarobertson9686]

Yall are too funny lol. Margo's face when Tashira said hard drugs 😂😂

[@WhenInDoubt_Pink]

This is soooo good! I totally agree with the pendulum swing back. It's so important to acknowledge it right now because we're losing the plot.

[@margolindauer]

LOSING THE PLOT.

[@ArmoniJazmeen]

While I’m not well versed in the trad wife culture. I will say as a woman on the cusp of both gen z and millennial demographic, I feel now more than ever it’s harder to be a woman. As a 26 y/o black woman in real life and on social media everyone has something to say about how you should show up as a woman. I find it all to be so draining because it feels as though there is no room to exist and figure out within yourself what woman you would like to be or what womanhood would like like to you. I’m finding as much as culture tries to amplify individualism there isn’t such a thing. While watching the podcast I’m deeply saddened to hear that there is a sector of women in America that are so willing to give up the voice that women fought for and to regenerate an old rhetoric and put ot out there for younger girls and women to absorb and aspire to without really genuinely exploring what else is out there.

[@zila6118]

I loved the ending thoughts on corporate jobs because in my experience my corporate job has been the most flexible and lucrative for my family. As a young mom having flexibility is #1 and only corporate gigs have afforded me that. The other options for a legal career are either more demanding in person, or just as demanding WRT hours with a huge pay cut! Would love to see y’all in conversations with some corporate women in the future who aren’t miserable about that choice and aren’t feeding into the toxic girlboss trope ❤

[@rosecoloredglasses67329]

MIC drop for sure, TS Madison! BRAVO!

[@laviliburd]

20:19 @tashira I have to point out that Cheryl Sandberg’s thesis was very specifically NOT acting like a man in leadership. She took pains in “Lean In” to point out the differences between masculinized leadership styles (and why they are often not well received from women) and more feminized (and not sexualized) leadership styles that she and other female leaders, including in the military had had much more success in employing. Part of this was a more communal, a more “us” than “me” approach, and it was one of the reasons that I really appreciated that book. The “Lean In” thesis was: don’t hold yourself back from going for the promotions because at some point you would want to take time off for child-rearing. Go for the gold ANYWAY, and then when you do have children you might more want to come back because you might be more fulfilled at work. And whatever you decide, you will have better choices and very likely more money. That’s how you “Lean In”.

[@yenni4365]

Not to be depressing but as an American Gen Zer I feel like my generation has constantly heard the message that we are inheriting a “dead world”. On an environmental level = no breathable air and rising sea levels. On a social level = nonexistent social services, mass shootings, etc. So with hearing that constant messaging, we're like why would I give more time to work when I can give it to my friends, community, hobbies, etc. Even though this is only my first year in corporate, I'm like uhhhhhhh this isn’t it 😂

[@laviliburd]

You guys will rebalance the system 🙏🏾 before it’s too late. And that includes implementing from the beginning that life MUST be more important than work. Nobody should be interested in being a wage slave, even if the shackles are golden.

[@PoliticsFashion]

This is so eye opening. THANK YOU 🙏🏿

[@christinehenry5283]

I find it interesting that Gen X was omitted from this conversation, moving directly to Boomers - we real are an ignored group. Geriatric Millennials might be managers, but Gen X is moving into the C-Suite spaces as Boomers are moving out - we have Millennial kids as well. Our message was something confusing - get the bag but take care of the baby.

[@margolindauer]

thank YOU for this.

[@cynthiastewart5171]

This conversation is everything that has been going on in my head for the past 10 years. I'm older and I find this all so fascinating and frightening.

[@ajalikeasia]

5:42 Babyyyyyyyyyy! “Cra¢k is quick!” took me to the ends of the earth & back again!!! #shando 😩💀🤣🤣🤣

[@123paramorefan]

😂😂😂

[@everythingeva4761]

Christian church taught that hierarchy of God first then husband. 🤦🏽‍♀️😫

[@melisasjournal]

Margo is cracking me about farms. I’d never heard of these wives, but as I work towards quitting my job to start a garden business I know what you’re talking about. I love gardening but sometimes it’s so uncomfortable being a black woman in that space

[@colettebenson9658]

6:10 “I would start my [last] day with a little crack.” sent me!! 💀💀💀💀 Great episode! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@karlynej]

Well the forgotten generation is really absent in this discussion. I'm Gen X and I see Gen z and Millennials as super consumerist, materialistic and living way too extended. Both generations have so much expectations from everyone and their accountability is so very low. Not all but most in my opinon respectfully.

[@cpjmorgan]

Where do Gen X fit into all this? I am so happy T brought in the racial and class dynamics critical to the workplace conversation!! I am always wondering that as so many yt women rose in the ranks why are maternity and paternity leaves still so sucky and the pay gap is still WIDE...in my experience my older Gen X directors and VPs are still very much upholding the patriarchy in exchange for power...

[@TMB62]

I am a Genx going to be 50 this year. I have two different trade diploma and have worked in both fields simultaneously fo years while raising my children. Boomer women in my experience have been mean girls in the work place. Their need to be masculine to get ahead was extremely off putting. I grew up with the hotep types on the streets. Imagine the deep eye roll to know that these folkx have social media platforms.

[@PoliticsFashion]

Wow you just spoke to the organizers I developed my sociopolitical analysis under in my 20s. I know EXACTLY what you’re talking about smh

[@candaceferguson8325]

Love this episode. Tashira, where did you get those boots from

[@shopwithleslie]

Before I go on a rant, I want to say that I enjoy your podcast! RANT - As a boomer (second generation) who was raised by parents on the cusps of being first generation boomers, I learned the value and necessity of hard work to get ahead. I was raised with the notion that when the going gets tough, the tough get going. Never did I feel I had a choice NOT to be tough. There was a lot of change for black folks when I was coming of age and more opportunities available to me as a black woman. I am glad I was raised with this mentality because if it weren’t for this, I would not be enjoying the fruits. And even though I do not relate to white feminism especially, I understood that it meant options and opportunity. I wonder about you millennials. What do you want, and HOW do you think this is going to happen? I cannot figure out how so many have ALOT to say about the conditions in which we live but have the lowest voter turnout compared to Gen Z and boomers. Colin Kaepernick is my definition of the poster child for this. A non voting, yet conspicuous protestor and supposed activist. If people want better working and living conditions GET INVOLVED and VOTE. I note generational issues because I hear similar sentiments from other millennials about what boomers have and have not done; and how so much of what is happening can be laid at their footsteps. What I did NOT hear was enough about the role of technology in Girl Boss culture. This is NOT a boomer issue as we are not digital natives. The Internet opened loads of opportunities for people, which includes opportunities to be a Girl Boss, and it was millennials that defined what this meant. In my era the superwoman, NOT the girl boss was en vogue. You can find the quintessential ad about “Enjoli," a perfume by Revlon on KZbin. The jingle reads, “I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan,” and still take care of my man, blah blah blah. Though this was hugely popular, it too had push back. I was a teenager on the cusps of adulthood at the time. The pushback was that you canNOT necessarily have it ALL. Boomers in my opinion came to accept this. And then there was the “what does the superwoman get?” issue, other than flexing medals for checking boxes. As you left it however, the relation between Girl Boss culture and boomer influence was UNCLEAR!

[@ashleyturner4483]

Baby I cried laughing at 1st on the ice breaker. But the topic was so good

[@DaRkPlUm]

Whether you're "girl boss" or a "trad wife", people are still telling women what they should want, or shaming them for not choosing to use the opportunities afforded to them in modern society to have a long, budding career. As long as they themselves are happy with the choices they make, other women should just be happy for them. Our society is so horrifically and almost violently polarized these days, it's just depressing.

[@Carlyon100]

Why is Tashirah's point about moving to the city and cleaving family and community eerily similar to stolen africans being moved via the middle passage to distant foreign hostile lands for capitalism. This idea of work is to disenfranchise and destabilise the many for the advancement, security of the few. Being a feminist, girl boss, trad wife, etc are responses to the wider malaise enveloping the population. You cannot continue to benefit from others' suffering and struggle without incurring juju. Thus, reparations in all its iterations are needed to move forward so we can all get some peace and justice.

[@HealASista]

I think the binary thinking of either or is where we get tripped up. It’s not either or, it’s all in between, sometimes in the same lifetime.

[@PoliticsFashion]

The last part is so profound 🙏🏿

[@chocolatchaud3011]

Please come to London UK.

[@MrsVanB]

Yes!! I will fly to London from The Netherlands!🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾

[@margolindauer]

WOW. let's put it out there. we would LOVE that.

[@TMB62]

OMG! Why don't people read!! The play adaptation and the movie 🎥 🍿 are not that wildly different. There are so many other issues in the story of color purple but his patriarchal azz only saw the 🌈 in a kiss that wasn't the plot of the movie.

[@Akadva76]

Great conversation as always but I couldn’t help but notice that there was no mention of Gen X. Is this an unspoken rule? 😅

[@justUSpod]

No not at all, we're sharing our perspective as geriatric millennials and notice that workplace norms came from our parents' generation, most of whom are Boomers and not Gen X. Thanks for watching!

[@candlesandcarnage]

I ain't gonna hold y'all. Its coke and meth for me.

[@PoliticsFashion]

😅😅😅

[@margolindauer]

Meth!

[@ariellehayden4172]

Majority of them are lazy af BUT they have exposed that the system is flawed and broken and can’t sustain none of us

[@TMB62]

Ok ill add one more thing, what if this is all BDSM cosplay being played out on the Internet? Girl boss = dom persons and trad wives = submissive. Most times i just feel like the Internet is trolling society as whole.

[@margolindauer]

such a good point. we are all getting played constantly.

[@margolindauer]

trolling all of us constantly!

[@nicolegari]

Ya Tail is Tailin Tashira🔥 The bead is Upon Boo📿

[@amantidestiny]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@Yougotthis1212]

Why would you want to do drugs? Makes absolutely no sense to me. There’s nothing fun or responsible about doing drugs and how it destroys people’s lives

[@DORCASDIASRIESMAKINGMEMORIES]

Especially, when you know that these people have influence across social media, and if one believes in the afterlife, what would you tell your Creator

[@zerandrianmorris]

Tuck your self-righteousness. The scenario they created is that It’s their last day on earth! My God. Where else in your life do you choose to be willfully obtuse? Respectfully.

[@Gullahbae-xm6ms]

😂😂😂