Is Heide's Tower really worse in Scholar?

[@johnsmith-xw7hv]

Jesus Christ man that guy was a huge fucking liar.

[@censr]

tbh he doesn’t realize that he rushed through scholar, which caused most of his complaints. by the time he got to vanilla, he just learned to play better and just viewed it as the better game.

[@Domo3000]

I also like how he compares his death count in the video, as if no one could have expected that Vanilla would feel easier after he already beat Scholar several times and got used to the enemies

[@frazfrazfrazfraz]

I was so confused at the damage he was taking from that Heide Knight. Like, is this dude wearing the calamity ring AND not upgrading armor at all?? The Heide knights get so stomped by upgraded plate armor and a big weapon

[@Domo3000]

Yeah the Fume UGS and the red phantom showed that he disingenuously played it underleveled on a higher NG+ to artificially make Scholar look unfair.

[@asdergold1]

Phantom. It was NG+ and he had only 75% health. No upgrades to the light armor he was wearing either. The first hit was also a counter attack.

[@Ahmet-yu7jr]

I think the reason optional area is more difficult is Blue Sentinels covenant. Blue Sentinels are protectors of way of the blue covenant and hunters of sinner players. Way of blue is beginners covenant that needs help against invader players. A player who come for help should be strong player or at least experienced player who knows how to deal with invaders. That's why they made the road more challenging, you should earn it, you should be strong player for helping other players. Same could be said for Brotherhood of Blood covenant. The road of Undead Purgatory is challenging full of easily aggroed torturers and a npc waits before the boss gate. You should earn this covenant. And the best part is all of them are optional areas. Another thing people overlooks is how DS II perfected covenants placement. All of em are optional, you can easily join coop covenants, they are in early places, PVP covenants have duel areas and territorial covenants have great places. You don't need specific stat requierement, cryptic puzzle or it doesn't take place in mandatory area. DS II improved covenants but DS III ruined again.

[@Domo3000]

That's a really smart analysis

[@youtubefan5786]

In what ways did ds3 ruin covenants?

[@Ahmet-yu7jr]

@@youtubefan5786 Early Blue Sentinels, Late Heirs of Sun Joining Rosarias ruins joining

[@youtubefan5786]

@@Ahmet-yu7jr you get sun heirs earlier than blue sentinels in ds3, and how does Rosario's fingers ruin stuff?

[@Ahmet-yu7jr]

@@youtubefan5786 ignore the first message. Warriors of sunlight altar in late game (before the Dragon Slayer Armor boss), it was so late for the game once you want rewards. Blue Sentinels is way early covenant, at that point in the game you are useless for help because you are pretty much a newbie. Darkmoon is late game covenant. There is not a balance placing them and worst of all both covenants are same, why there is two similar covenant? Because Rosarias Finger exist. Next is Rosaria's Finger, joining it ruins joining Darkmoon and Sirris Quest. Its placement is good I gave it that. Mound-makers, cryptic bulsh*t, easily to ruin joining (killing cage spider npc and joining Rosarias). And it is pretty much makes no sense. Territorial covenants are not alternate routes. Farron is newbie hunting place. And they bound to bosses. If you kill bosses no invasion. You can't enjoy them after you gain more experience.

[@GraaD-87]

0:40 New Old Knight with a greathammer?.. Sorry, but that's just outright wrong. He was always there in vanilla and dropped your first Sublime Bone Dust (in SOTFS it was moved to a chest in the underground passage).

[@Domo3000]

You are right. I forgot the he exists because he does not respawn

[@schnozgaming989]

I hated how he dropped it, one time we killed eachother and bonne dust was lost forever

[@GraaD-87]

@@schnozgaming989 Yeah, I was never a fan of such important item being just dropped by some random mob. Not only could you kill eachother, but also you could just skip the seemingly unimportant loot drop and lose it forever. SOTFS did good by putting those in the chests. Some changes like this I appreciate. Some others... not so much.

[@scorpiowarrior7841]

@@GraaD-87 It would've been okay if they just made the knight respawning and made him act like the fire tempest (I don't actually remeber the spell that's dropped) Gorged hollow in the painted world that just drops it endlessly until you pick it up

[@Er404ChannelNotFound]

Also important to bear in mind that a Dragon guarding/breathing fire on a bridge is a commonly celebrated FromSoft trope and Scholar adding that Drake gives the game its own spin on it.

[@Er404ChannelNotFound]

@@Kamawan0 My only small disappointment was that his fire didn't deal good damage to the other enemies. Woulda made for a funny gameplay moment to run from all the enemies and barely make it to duck under his flames and they'd kill the Heide Knights on your tail lol.

[@TheSandvichTrials]

I do think the drake in heide is a bit... hamfisted? It looks quite out of place, like a game developer just put it there to have it there rather than me really believing it's there in the game world because it makes sense for it to be there.

[@Kamawan0]

@@TheSandvichTrials I don't doubt that. In interviews with Fromsoft, they have gone on record to say that they will sometimes do something just because they think it's funny lmfao.

@@TheSandvichTrials Dragonriders ride dragons, that dragon is Heide's Dragonrider's dragon that he parked there.

[@Voingous]

Dragonriders actually don't ride dragons, funnily enough.

[@Domo3000]

I'm also wondering if the optional half of Heide's Tower is the main reason why he falsely assumes that the beginning in Scholar is much harder than in Vanilla. Did he also spent hours fighting the skeletons at the DS1 graveyard without realizing that he should explore another path first?

[@bigdumbfatcat2869]

And those are harder than Heide anyway

[@bigdumbfatcat2869]

@@Kamawan0 Sure, but even then you progress to the Catacombs, which are just harder than anything that is immediately accessible in DS2.

[@blackbaby6977]

@@Kamawan0the skeletons lead to catacombs, what he said was valid

[@Kamawan0]

@@blackbaby6977 Please follow the thread. We were comparing skeleton difficulty vs heide knight diff. Nobody is saying the statement is invalid, just had nothing to do with OP, which mentioned graveyard. If you didn't take the hint at the graveyard and somehow pushed into catacombs, that's a different topic altogether.

[@blackbaby6977]

@@Kamawan0 i think the overarching kindof point is that its a hard area that youre meant to return to. so mentioning the catacombs was to point out that, yes, the skeletons may be easier than heide knights but the area is still intended to be returned to later because just after the skeletons are harder mobs

[@beelzemalle]

Thanks for pointing out the incredible doublestandard within the souls fandom/community/hivemind people have when it comes to DS2. (And within DS2 specifically against Scholar.) It is obnoxious, especially because most souls-streamers/content creators just parrot these unbased opinions as if they were factual. A friend also told me to get Vanilla instead of Scholar and when asked "Why?" they couldn't present any actual arguments, beyond the usual shitty claims. That attitude kept me from trying DS2 for a long while before taking the plunge with Scholar and enjoying it a LOT. Maybe that's partially, because it got talked down so much that I went in with set expectations, but still, I enjoyed it wholeheartedly. Sure, it's flawed, but so is every other fromsoftware game.

[@Domo3000]

I could make a whole video about doublestandards. It's like streamers just turn off their brain when playing DS2. Like the Tree Sentinel lesson I've mentioned in this video. In DS1 it's seen as good game design that the graveyard at Firelink Shrine is so hard because it teaches new players to explore more and come back later, but the optional half of Heide's Tower is unfair to new players because it's too hard early on. Another one are ambushes. In DS1 there's several instances when enemies climb up from ledges to gank you if you greedily pick up an item without checking your surroundings first. This is seen as good game design because Souls games should be fair but punishing. Then in DS2 there's the exact same with the sleeping hollows in the Forest, but that's suddenly completely unfair because Souls games should not punish players for greedily rushing towards items without paying any attention to their surroundings. Or how when DS1 had bosses like the Taurus Demon, Capra Demon, Moonlight Butterfly and Gargoyles show up as regular enemies later it's seen as good game design because it shows just how far you've progressed, but when DS2 does the same with the Ruin Sentinels and Dragonriders is suddenly just lazy and bad. So many complaints about DS2 are the same things the community praises in the other games.

[@stevenseagull4990]

Some days it seems like Entire DS community is on a quest to kill eachother for liking a different installment.

[@janehrahan5116]

Nah there is one that everyone has wrongly agreed to hate on.

[@Domo3000]

@@Kamawan0 that's probably true. I don't watch a lot of streams. I just see some clips of them on KZbin, which like you said has a bias towards rage bait

[@bigdumbfatcat2869]

@@Kamawan0 Newer streamers aren't going in with the same biases that people had years ago, they go in with a much more open, neutral mind, and aren't as likely to seek clout from the audiences of KZbinrs and streamers that are no longer relevant. DS2 has probably aged the best because of this

[@SpecShadow]

There's 2h-blunt weapon weilding knight in the begining that drops Sublime Bone Dust in vanilla.

[@sk8william798]

Heide was my favorite area from the moment i started playing the game

[@Domo3000]

I was so disappointed when I played it in Vanilla as it was just the same two enemies over and over. It felt so empty and boring in comparison to Scholar where it feels like two different areas in one.

[@okto4201]

How are people struggling with this area in the beginning of the game, am i stupid for actually being able to fight Heide Knights while underleveled, or does everyone's brain just turns off once they start playing ds2 😭

[@Domo3000]

People that complain about Heide Knights fall into the same category as people the complain about dogs. Both punish just mashing R1 and require you to play more cautiously by waiting for an opening you can punish. I just stay away a bit from them, let them attack and go in for a backstab.

[@okto4201]

@@Domo3000 exactly! As if players will get their balls chopped off for using their brain to play the game

[@ags8507]

everytime i played heide i would just kill dragonslayer first (for early covenant access) then dragon rider.... this solves the only issue in this area lol

[@facundomontivero2299]

I mean, isn't that how everyone does it? Kill the optional boss first, and then defeat the main boss Dragonrider to proceed in the game.

[@asdergold1]

Loved how he got oneshot by an NG+ at minimum rare triple counter attack. And how he'd have survived if he just had used an effigy prior. He also had light armor on and probably didn't upgrade it, like the majority of tools who hate DS2. Skill. Issue. Brain. Issue.

[@YEY0806]

Straid: "Feeble minded!"

[@LolXd-tj7iw]

Yeah at first I thought he was in the champion covenant which makes you takes more damage while you deal less but than I saw that he dealt above 1k damage yet the heide knight still had around 45-50% of his hp

[@saysalla]

If you use light armor in dark souls 2 you have brain issues

[@syzerix3157]

5:58 We exactly know why you panned the camera that way...

[@AtreyusNinja]

Best Souls 2

[@sekirofan0]

Best souls 2 indeed

[@Phantom17685]

Happy Souls

[@YEY0806]

​@@Phantom17685 "BOSS WEAPONS"

[@zzodysseuszz]

@@YEY0806 BOSSsssssWEAPONS!

[@YEY0806]

@@zzodysseuszz "just right down the road"

[@garrettdixon9563]

I love your build variety in these videos. DS2 has the best variety of viable weapons and armor in any souls game in my opinion.

[@Domo3000]

Thanks, and yeah as you can see I do enjoy dressing up with the right outfit for the right weapon/area

[@davi21575]

I remember that in my first time playing i ALMOST missed the florest of the giants,i killed dragon rider, and then i killed "ornstein" to prove to my uncle that i am good at souls games(i died 30 times) got to no mans wharf,i saw every thing gliched and then i said "better not"

[@breadslayer7987]

Wow, so he actually lied in his video.

[@Domo3000]

Playing it underleveled in NG+ to complain how high the damage of this "early game" area is to artificially make Scholar look unfair isn't even the worst lie I've caught him in. For more obvious lies you should check out the four previous videos I did about his video.

[@asdergold1]

@@Domo3000 and not even at full health. With likely base level armor.

[@Domo3000]

@@asdergold1 Ultra Greatsword and armor without any poise

[@MetalOnion_]

99% of "critics" of DS2 are ironically garbage.

[@Domo3000]

No that can't be. They all claim to be skilled Souls veterans so the fact that they struggle if they just blindly run through new areas while ignoring basic gameplay mechanics obviously means that the game is unfair. There's no way that those easily preventable situations are their own fault.

[@zelnickno.2348]

"Feeble" indeed

[@Downsquad]

I hate this area it has one the worst layouts of any area in soulsborne, the dragon sucks and the Hiede knights are janky asf. The only positive is it's pretty.

[@Sattylites]

Feeble King is a terrible ragebait KZbinr that makes content full of disingenuous and blatantly false claims. Loopine and other Soulstubers have proven time and time again that the guy genuinely doesn't know what he is talking about, or does, just to be what I said earlier, a ragebait Soulstuber that creates controversy for the sake of attention.

[@ryandavis4936]

I really dont like the changes to heides in the main part at least. The dragonrider boss is a very easy early-game boss. It really shouldnt be gated off to mid-game. Also getting rid of the heide knights and moving them all to heide's tower kinda ruins the point of their character. Wandering knights with a lost home that exist as an optional challenge like the black knights in ds1. I perfer scholar and generally think ds2 is over-hated but I dont think we should be disingenuous about our praise. DS2 has a LOT of flaws, and scholar made a few mistakes with its changes

[@Deoix9877]

while I'm not against them making that half of the level a mid game level, I think they did 2 things that made it not really click for me 1: Old Dragonslayer is NOT a mid game boss by any stretch of the imagination. ornstein's moveset was designed with smoug in mind, so by his lonesome he's very unchallenging. that, plus him doing very low damage makes him feel way too easy if you fight him anywhere other than early game 2: The dragon being there is wrong. not in the sense of it being a hard enemy, I mean that it being specifically THAT dragon is wrong. you can't take a late-game boss like the guardian dragon and put it as a normal ass enemy in one of the starting areas, cause it loses all impact once you get to the actual boss. guardian dragon is no longer the first dragon in the game you fight, he's just an enemy you killed before that for some reason is now a boss. it loses the impact it might have had. is as if in DS1, you had a centipede demon walking around in the undead burg my main issue with scholar isn't dificulty or mechanic wise, is the fact they made a bunch of changes that mess up with the thematics the game had. like, why in the fuck is there an executioner's chariot in the middle of drangleic's castle?

[@JellyJman]

Old Dragonslayer was at least designed as mid game boss if you look at the souls it gives. It gives more than Mythra or flexile Sentry

[@JellyJman]

Also I’m pretty sure they put executioner chariot there because some players would had skipped it and they wanted to show off the boss lol 😂

[@memberofchat2825]

im guessing they are assuming you already played the original version.

[@byrne8509]

Yep, he's a dishonest liar standing on ground that crumbles when held under the smallest scrutiny. Also, what is the outro music? Sounds good.

[@Domo3000]

It's just called "Sleep". It's from a Loop pack I've bought in a Humble Bundle from some audio website once. Cinematic Soundwaves Bundle, Loop Pack 4

[@syzerix3157]

Clearly the guy does not realize his fume ugs can 1 shot the heide knights. Don't blame him too because its very hidden mechanic. I made a whole compilation of this on my channel.

[@Domo3000]

I only see a Vestiges mod and GTA v video

[@theeliteterrarian1888]

yeah i dont really agree with this one fully. you can circumvent most of the heide knights waking up by simply going to the old dragonslayer first, meaning you are just being punished for taking the wrong path and killing dragonrider. also if you dont get past the drake immediately it will be near impossible to reach his platform since he will keep spamming fire. i do think however, having heide knights in... you know, heides tower makes a lot of sense. but killing dragonrider should not wake them up. i also think the spear knight should probably be moved to where the drake is now.

[@Domo3000]

I don't see making an optional side challenge more challenging as a problem. I actually enjoy fighting the Heide Knights on the way to the Drake, but others (that know about it e.g. on subsequent playthroughs) can do it your way to move this area closer to early game. It's more choice, which is another bonus in my book.

[@theeliteterrarian1888]

@@Domo3000 fair enough

[@SuperStoryMode]

I actually had no idea that Old Dragonslayer was a midgame boss. Aside from the Gargoylea in Belfry Luna (since I didn't have a Lockstone), I beat every boss in every area before moving on. In Dragonslayer's case, I went in his direction first, not knowing he was optional or a dead-end. And when I fought him, I found it incredibly easy. Most DS2 bosses were easy for me. That doesn't mean I'm amazing, though: I think I'm just well-suited to the slower rhythm most bosses had. The only bosses I had trouble on were: 1. Pursuer (it was a useful fight to learn game mechanics; took me 2-3 hours to beat him, but I learned a lot) 2. Ruin Sentinels 3. Gargoyles (I actually beat them on my second or third try, but it was a long fight with MANY close calls) 4. Scorpioness Najka ...and that's pretty much it. Even though I found the bosses easy, the AREAS were the true bosses for me. Despite playing carefully, they KICKED. MY. BUTT. So I by no means claim to be better than anyone or brag about my "skill". When all was said and done, I finished Scholar and the DLC expansions at 116 hours and 491 deaths. Heide's Tower was a TRIAL BY FIRE for me. I beat my face against it for nearly eight hours before getting to the Wharf. Again, the bosses were easy, but the ENEMIES... Oh, man! I was having enough issues with the big boys, but when I faced that spear knight leading to Dragonslayer, I intentionally attacked every white knight for practice until I got their patterns and learned how to respond. (Still suck fighting the spear varients, though, haha! My answer was to block with a shield, then dodge behind and attack. Still took a lot of damage...) All in all, I think we can agree that Heide's Tower is hard for how early it is. But you're also correct that we could just come back later for the mid-tier challenges. Personally, though, I never realized it was meant for later; I just thought it was DS2's "git gud" area. Still, you've proven that King is definitely misrepresenting some things.

[@dominiumbrasilis]

Dark Souls 2 Scholar = normal, Dark Souls 2 = ez mode ;D Good job mate !

[@MrPatrickbuit]

This part is written before completing the video: 5:31 alright, so then why is Old Dragonslayer so easy in the early game? Not just in terms of his moveset, but also his damage output and health. If you approach this area in the midgame (so at SL70 or so, with a +7 or +8 weapon) you will absolutely tear Ornstein apart. So the path is difficult but the boss is easy? That makes no sense. If they were going to suggest that Heide's second half is a midgame area, then they should have also made the boss a midgame boss instead of an early game one. after the video: 7:52 yeah no way lmao. You are tearing through him with your build and he's barely putting a dent in you. There's no way you can genuinely suggest you are not overleved for this fight when you're tearing his health bar apart with a few hits, facetanking all his attacks and barely losing health. This fight was not scaled for the midgame. It was scaled for the early game. Now I will admit that you might be using an endgame build for this area, instead of a midgame one. However, even with a midgame build you will be doing 300-350 damage to him with more or less every melee weapon. That is far too much and makes him a joke compared to any of the enemies before his arena.

[@JGSM_JuvenileGeryon]

No fucking way. Tanimura made Ornstein Pinwheel of DS2!

[@MrPatrickbuit]

@@JGSM_JuvenileGeryon Hahahaha this cracked me tf up

[@carlschrappen9712]

I prefer vanilla Heide's tower for two reasons. 1. The Heide Knights can sometimes agro at the same time as the Old Knights because of their tendency to wander around, resulting in some frustrating ganks. 2. If you don't run towards the dragon as it's waking up, it will continuously breathe fire in your direction, with not enough time in between breaths to safely get to the dragon.

[@Domo3000]

Like another user here said I also do like the Drake for the fact that it's a callback to Demon Souls and DS1 where you also had to figure out how to run past the Dragons/Wyvern. It's one more puzzle to figure out, which is a plus in my opinion.

[@Happy_Sailor639]

The only issue I have with this location is that there's a drake here. In front of Ornstein. The guy who is called "dragonslayer". Convinient. I don't have any issues with the drake as in gameplay enemy, just as lore one. Edit: Just watched your video about enemy placement, now it makes sense that there is a drake here. Yet still, the Ornstein wannabe probably wouldn't like it sitting infront of him :D

[@ThisIsPampkin]

Domo, can you make a video about Old Knights and Drakekeepers' Hitbox Visualized as well? I do notice the ones using Ultra Greatswords have this weird hitbox on their Vertical Downward Slashes.

[@Domo3000]

UGS Old Knight hitboxes really are inflated: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppuymahrjrGDpsU

[@piterrospl9512]

His critique is definitely bad, in original the area felt so weird. Not only empty, but the enemies completely didn't fit the theme, Heide Knights in Heide Tower make sense. But I'll admit, I personally have some critiques about this area. I won't claim it's completely bullshit, but it mostly comes down to new player experience and the structure of the area, plus a bit of balance. As a new player comes into the area, and it can be the first area that a newbie comes into, they will quickly notice that if they aggro the Heide Knights, they are quite tough. Even if they don't deal too much damage as a whole, their attacks are tougher to read if you're new, and they definitely feel hard. So then, you pass through, and you go see the lever. Once you press it, in front of you, floor around what seems like a boss appears. This is a suggestion, that you can go there, as it's the first, how to call it, "suggesting" landmark. Initially you could see the cathedral from the beginning, but so you could see the tower. So then once you approach it, the game subtly suggests you that "you can definitely go here and this might be your objective". So now, a new player will pass the middle room, and be presented with two choices: check out the boss he saw previously, or go the other way. - if a new player goes to the boss, admittedly Dragonrider is quite simple. Unless their weapon breaks, they will see that they can beat him, but due to no obvious visual connections between him and Heide Knights, they might not expect that all knights will stand up after this fight. And in early game, knowing that Heide Knights are difficult, the area has now become far more hostile, so they will think that the upper part is an area for later. - if a new player goes left, they will first be ambushed by the two knights. It's not bad, but can hint that this part is harder. Then upstairs, the spear knight, who again, is difficult for a new player. And then the drake, which while not very difficult if you get to him, getting up to him in the first place is tight. A new player might even think that there is a gimmick to do (that's what I thought when I tried rushing in a couple times and got knocked off by the flame). Unless they manage to get to and beat the drake, they will go to Dragonrider and lock themselves out. So now the problem, the balancing. Yes, as you said, it puts the area into more mid-game state, but I feel like Dragonslayer is balanced somewhere between early and mid-game. He doesn't have that much health, or at least doesn't feel like. But the problem is, Dragonslayer is slightly more difficult, while the runback to him is very tough. The jump in difficulty from those big knights and Dragonrider to the Heide Knights, for a new player, is VERY noticeable. I genuinely thought it's something for late-game, where we will come back later. But the issue is, the game doesn't tell you when to come back. Due to early structure of the game, for a new player, it can be overwhelming to remember every place you might go to later (since you already have so many ways to go to). Chances are you get reminded by getting bonfires revealed by Nashandra. But by that point, you will likely already be overleveled for Dragonslayer, which will make him a pushover. And with so many areas to explore early on, I think it's unlikely that a new player will be relentlessly trying to push through this area over and over until they manage, early enough that Dragonslayer will be a balanced challenge. Actually, this is very similiar issue to Pinwheel. Skellies in Firelink Shrine are damn tough, but once you get reminded to go down there (likely via Lordvessel), you will be overleveled and he will die in a few hits. Tree Sentinel lesson is perfectly fine, but I think it could have been handled better (in both games to be honest). Even just pushing the HP of those bosses slightly up would be good enough.

[@necrobastard5760]

So weird other people thought Heides round 2 is too hard for early game while I've JUST learned Dragonslayer a mid game boss, still doin it 3rd tho.

[@darkbugo7212]

They destroyed heide tower for me. I am not talking about difficulty but how ridiculous it is, those tight places overpopulated by both the giant knights and the sitting heide knights. It was a novelty in scholar that the heide knights were so rare when you met the three of them, that they had a mythical status, they added to the mystery and lore of the world. But now they are sitting all together in a tightly packed area among with other things and a dragon. I mean, ok the dragon is kinda cool, but this area is soooo weird now. There are few things that scholar improved and they could have kept it in that. But they overpopulated and changed areas. They removed things from old that I think were cool and memorable. The only good changes are that finally the dull ember is not at the edge of the world (in the vanilla you could have finished most of the game and still not find how the hell to infuse your weapons) and I notice there are some areas in vanilla that feel too empty and they improved a bit. But it's like for me 25% improvement and 75% bs. Sorry it's just taste, I know that most people say "Scholar is definitely the best" but I wonder if most people started with Scholar and then tried the vanilla and it seemed bland. If you go this then yes it feels weird and like things are missing. Again, they shouldn't have made a so vastly different version of the game. It's like playing two different games, watching two different movies. Imagine if ID made a new version of classic Doom where the enemy/thing placement was vastly different so that you wonder which of the two games is a bootleg hack. It frustrates me as much as I love DS2 and I can happily enjoy both of the versions but it creates a schism in my brain.

[@Hoonter_jne]

Thanks for this video. Helped me realise how much later I should have come. TBH I just wanted to fight the Old Dragonslayer. It was easy but fun.

[@maninthesnow4393]

Why do people complain about that drake. You know you ca get a bow back in majula, and plenty of arrows. Dark souls isnt hard some people are just stupid

[@Domo3000]

And Gavlan sells poison arrows like 5 minutes from here. It's like a 300 Souls investment to trivialize that encounter.

[@castilloespinoza9726]

The existance of a respawning hammer knight is synonimous of definely worse change to me.

[@Domo3000]

I like it for the additional enemy variety, but also as it better prepares you for the Mace Drakekeeper in Dragon Shrine later. If you fight this weaker version a couple of times you won't struggle as much with his buffed version.

[@bodhidaruma2824]

Do the heide knights immediately come to gank you after you defeat the dragonrider, or do you need to get close to them? Just curious, never played scholar.

[@Zapdos7471]

They get up and wander on set paths, with relatively oblivious AI until you enter the area they end up patrolling. It isn’t hard to fight them 1v1 or with one old knight accompanying them.

[@Voromire1]

Personally, I didn't jive well with either "version" of DS 2, but I 100% agree with you here.

[@scorpiowarrior7841]

I got DS2 in vanilla to the last boss and didn't feel the drive to kill her or do the DLCs. It's just the least interesting Dark souls game for me....Wish the Mastordon Greatsword was in DS3 though, that weapon is beautiful.

[@orez___]

Is Heide's Tower really worse in Scholar? short answer: Yes. long answer: Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees

[@Domo3000]

In my opinion making an optional side challenge more interesting and more challenging isn't a bad thing. In Vanilla the Old Dragonslayer half of this area just felt empty and boring, but in Scholar this area feels like two areas in one: an easy early game area and a harder mid game area

[@orez___]

@@Domo3000 i see your point, tbh I was just kidding

[@binis6452]

Although I prefer scholar heides by a mile, there is still sort of vibe I prefer in vanilla with old knights in the abandoned water tunnels that I still find massively appealing over a basilisk and syan knight, maybe if we had a old knight with a pike/halberd there itd be abit nicer? since we already have warpick drakekeeper in the shrine instead.

[@abrahamrangel2326]

Ds2 haters try to not be hypocrite challenge (impossible) The fact that they cant even think to aggro the enemy and wait for him to come instead of rushing in and alerting more enemies makes me wonder how they beat the other games

[@Domo3000]

It's even funnier if you watch my No Man's Wharf video where he falsely states that Vanilla DS2 is more like DS1 where you can pull individual enemies, but like I just never saw him even try to do that in Scholar

[@LEWIS1992]

Why not just speak instead of using an AI voice?

[@Domo3000]

English isn't my first language. I can write it, but I can't pronounce it. I don't even understand myself when I listen back to it

[@ashen-one--x]

@@Domo3000 lol i like the AI voice. i mean, your writing is top notch too.

[@nopnop9077]

tbh you went overleveled as fuck in scholar with a maxed weapon

[@Domo3000]

I went level 100 as that was the level he was talking about. And I said that it's intended to be done after Earthen Peak, at which point you can have a maxed out weapon. All my equipment and upgrades are things you would have access to at that point in the game. The level might be 20 levels higher than usual, but I just rolled with the 100 he mentioned.

[@asdergold1]

Guy in the video was overleveled and in NG+. No excuse there.

[@Modie]

Personally, I have to say that if they wanted you attempt the optional part of Heide's tower later in the game, they should have also rebalanced the Dragonslayer. The problem with the implementation in Scholar for me is that it never feels rewarding. If you attempt Dragonslayer relatively early, the runback can be annoying (I mean, you can do him before Dragonrider, but there is still a Drake you have to defeat in the beginning, so getting there will be a challenge, because it's still a drake and you fight it on a smaller platform where you can easily pushed off, especially when you try to dodge in the beginning of the game and can not tank) and if you do it in the middle game, the boss itself is way too easy to pose any challenge imo. Which makes the encounter lack the impact it is probably supposed to have as it's Ornstein, one half of the hardest bosses of the last game. Point being, I don't think it's bad what they intended to do with the area with it being harder and you need to come back. But the boss of that area needs to be at least somewhat balanced to reflect that as well. I mean, your showcase presents that fairly well. Yeah, Dragonslayer does more damage than the Drake, but we shouldn't forget that the Drake does not respawn, so every new attempt at the boss will be even easier. And even then, you showed how easy Dragonslayer is. I know level 100 was because the other video used it as well, but it's kind of hard to make a point here, when the boss is this easy in the footage you are using.

[@Domo3000]

Old Dragonslayer has always been balanced around mid-game difficulty. He deals similar damage as Mytha, and drops the same amount of Souls as her.

[@Modie]

@@Domo3000 That comparison is a bit disingenious, don't you think? Mytha's whole gimmick is her poison area. An area that you can only get rid of IF you understand that you can burn the windmill. Which is something barely anyone will figure out on their first playthrough. Yeah, they added a summon that shows this, but a lot of players will not use it either as this is how they enjoy the games. But even IF you get rid of Mytha's poison for the most part, her fight is still more difficult, because of the fact that there is still poison on the side. This means, her area is smaller and you have to make sure you don't run into the poison, but it also means that she can heal a bit of her HP every now and then. The point is Dragonslayer and Mytha are no way on the same difficulty level and trying to argue for that, is disingenious. On my first ever playthrough, I attempted Dragonslayer before Mytha. I was around 10 levels lower and my weapon was not as strong (as you find a stone trader in the area before Mytha) and I still struggled more even AFTER I looked up what the deal is with her poison area. Yeah, that's anecdotal evidence, but I am hard pressed that you can find many players who will tell you that Dragonslayer as a boss was similarly hard as Mytha. The point being that while you can use soul amounts to say that he was supposed to be a mid game boss, he is far easier than other mid game bosses. And that's all I was saying. If they WANTED him to be on the same level as other mid game bosses, they clearly failed as he is nowhere near their level and therefore feels underwhelming when you attempt him mid game. If you think you can just adjust HP and soul values and then it's suddenly a mid game boss, then you totally misunderstood what these games are about. And that's not even taking into accoung that DS2 as a game is far more open in the beginning which makes the argument of mid-game bosses really bad to begin with.

[@Domo3000]

@@Modie I think his balance is fine for post-Earthen Peak mid game. But let's pick other comparisons. He clearly is noticeable more challenging than the Dragonrider and gives a lot more Souls. He's faster and deals more damage than Flexile Sentry, and gives about 50% more Souls than them. Skeleton Lords can be gankier, but they are easier to deal with and give 5000 Souls less than him. The Souls bosses grant give you a rough estimate for which order they were intended to be beat, and his 20k clearly put him above many other early bosses.

[@Modie]

@@Domo3000 As I said in my last paragraph, the point is not that I am not seeing that he was intended for later, but that he was not properly balanced to fill that spot. From your examples, I agree with Dragonrider and Skeleton Lords, but Flexile Sentry already shows the issue again. Because Flexile Sentry is at least on the same level of difficulty as Dragonslayer. While Flexile might do less damage, its difficulty comes from two factors: 1) The rising water levels, so you have a time limit (which also restricts your movement once it gets to a certain level) 2) The fact that it can attack you from the front and the back One of the key elements for a lot of bosses is that they are kind of safe to attack if you manage to get behind them after an attack. This is not the case for Flexile Sentry. It's the first boss that does not allow this pattern and requires the player to change their strategy for how to approach enemies like that. And this show the point again, Dragonslayer, while giving the appropriate amount of souls, just doesn't have the complexity in either its moveset or its arena to be a proper mid game boss. And changing its damage and HP only mitigates this effect slightly. And this shouldn't be a surprise, because it's a boss taken from a dual boss fight. Its attacks were supposed to be simple, because the challenge was that you had to deal with two enemies at the same time originally. If they want him to stay a mid game boss, they needed to give him new moves that account for this new envoirenment. They didn't do that and therefore, I feel they failed at making him a proper mid game boss.

[@asdergold1]

Sounds like whining to me. Unreasonable whining after seeing the replies.

[@creonrex]

Except Old Dragonslayer itself IS the optional hard encounter in vanilla. They just made it needlessly tedious to get to now, having to clear out all the enemies before the drake so they don't get in the way while you shuffle around his feet to kill him so you can hit the lever.

[@Domo3000]

I still don't see how making an optional side challenge more interesting and more challenging is an objectively bad change. In Vanilla it feels empty and boring, so to me Scholar Heide's Tower is a straight upgrade

[@creonrex]

@@Domo3000 Additional tedium doesn't make a challenge good. As a whole, I would agree that the rest of the level benefits from the different enemy types. My complaint is solely on the approach to the Old Dragonslayer because the drake is just a poor fit. The difficulty relies on players waking it before crossing or not killing all the enemies leading to it as the drake's physical attack animations are as telegraphed and one note as the Last Giant.

[@Mitchfork]

Feel like this is going to be one of the few disagreements I have with this series. Obviously the video you're responding to is bad, no real issues with the responses. Increasing the diversity of Old Knight types is good, and I'm fine with the tunnel changes. I simply think the Heide Knights and Guardian Dragon are not good enemies and not fun to fight. The Heide Knights have really unsatisfying animations and attack windows - yes you can parry these, but DS2 parry timings are very strict (I can't figure out med shields to save my life) and I could never recommend this as a cornerstone strategy for dealing with an enemy. The Guardian Dragon is fine, theoretically, but if you don't make the first chance dash to the platform it's really not fun to try to get to it again - and I don't really like the fight once you get there anyway. I think the Ring of Binding location change (not touched on in this video) is also worse. If you don't know that the Dragonrider will make the Heide Knights aggro (and there's no game feedback that will happen before you do it) it becomes extremely hard to get it, since the chest-guarding knight will aggro with the Old Knight outside of the Dragonrider arena. Add to this general DS2 considerations with animation vulnerability and it's very hard to even make a suicide run for the ring, which is a critical first playthrough item in my opinion. It's not a war crime, but I would have preferred a more conservative reworking of the area, similar to Forest of Fallen Giants. This is one of the only areas that I have this opinion on in Scholar.

[@Domo3000]

I didn't even consider this possibility, because to me it always made perfect sense to open the chest before entering the fog gate

[@Mitchfork]

@@Domo3000 On my first Scholar run, I just thought I'd go ahead and beat Dragonrider first since Heide Knights are hard and Dragonrider's bonfire would be more convenient for runbacks. Hard to tell if a first time player would think like that I suppose.

[@facundomontivero2299]

I mean, they are called Heide knights, it would make sense to have them in the area with the same name. But you are totally right about their moves. Their animations are so fricking janky it's not even fun to fight them at all.

[@Cricket0021]

the knights at ornstein's area are always activated no matter if the dragonrider is dead or not.

[@Gustodynho]

Even though i like this game and think the area is good, this optional path makes the boss really easy to kill. First time i fought him i didn't even had time to enjoy the fight because it was over under a minute. At least for me, they should have balanced the boss and give him some new moves and a lot more of health.

[@Gustodynho]

It would be a better challenge for a mid game boss

[@facundomontivero2299]

Wait wait wait! Why did that guy at the beginning called the Dragonrider an "optional boss"? He's the main boss of the area! It is mandatory to beat him if you want to get to No Man's Wharf. Discount Ornstein is the optional boss, as beating him doesn't advance the game in any way, it just gets you access to a covenant. I'm a little confused. Am I missing something?

[@Domo3000]

I guess he just misspoke. I wouldn't think too much about it

[@geo4290]

Technically, you can get to the Lost Bastille from the forest of fallen giants, after defeating the Pursuer.

[@Domo3000]

@@geo4290 technically all those early bosses are optional if you use the million Souls skip, but I don't think that he was using that logic either If you want to progress you this area there is one mandatory boss to do so

[@facundomontivero2299]

@@geo4290 But I was talking about No Man's Wharf. You have to go through Heide's Tower of Flame.

[@GuardianOwl]

@@facundomontivero2299 And the other person is speaking from a macro level perspective. The goal of the first part of the game is to get the souls from the 4 Old Ones to open the Shrine of Winter. To attain one of those souls requires getting to Sinner's Rise via the Lost Bastille, but there are two paths to the Lost Bastille. So Dragonrider is a required boss to get _through_ Heide's Tower of Flame, but Heide's Tower of Flame is not required to get *TO* Lost Bastille. You can take the front door through No Man's Wharf, or you can take the back door via the eagle by beating the Pursuer in the Forest of the Fallen Giants. So neither Dragonrider, nor Flexile Sentry are a mandatory boss.

[@MAYOFORCE]

I don't think either game is particularly good with this area, because the heide knights' aggro lines up with the old knights perfectly in a way where you'll never get a safe spot except near the bonfire after dragonrider, and it makes running through the area to get to the drake particularly obnoxious and tedious. But I also always cleared out the harder version of the area immediately after the normal version, and I've put in enough time to know that it would be a piece of cake after taking care of a couple primal bonfires first, so you have a fair argument.

[@ashen-one--x]

some hard areas i just fight them until they stop respawning xD if they are killing me a lot anyway :) i had to do that at the blue smelter demon runback.

[@yourmaid4982]

Bro I would suggest to not waste your time with ai voice-over, Maybe it's just me but U would rather read subtitles. Otherwise if you can it's better to do your own voiceover, even if your English isn't best, everyone starts somewhere

[@Domo3000]

Doesn't KZbin automatically create subtitles? I thought this would be the best of both worlds because people have the choice to turn them on if they want to read along, but could also let it run on a second screen and listen to it

[@yourmaid4982]

@@Domo3000 The YT automatic subtitles are useful sometimes, but I'm talking about dropping AI generated voice-over completely and stick to text on screen. A good example would be Zullie the witch's vids on KZbin

[@Qtuz0v]

What actually happens: It starts ok: - You go into Heide's tower and learn the area. - One way is blocked by imposing dragon, other is just a fog wall - Go through the fog wall, kill easy boss, sit at a bonfire, now lets go check out that dragon - Suddenly heide knights are awake and attacking you - Die several times but quickly learn thet they actually are not that difficult - you can block, parry, roll their attacks and punish their nonsensical moves pretty handily And here fun ends and everyones favorite DS2 tedium begins, which goes like this: - Clear everything up to dragon (+15 minutes). Wake dragon up, get scared, retreat, try to run through, die. - Clear everything again (+15 minutes), try to kill it with ranged attacks. Fire hitboxes and your ranges are ass, so you die a second time. - Try to run through, discover that you can outrun the dragon breath when it is waking up, but everything follows you and receives like no damage at all from dragons attacks so you die again. - Clear everything again (15 minutes more). Run up to dragon. The fight is amazingly bad and easy so you do it first try, but use all your healing due to amazing ds2 hitboxes. Enter boss fight and die without heals (its still early in the game so you don't have too much of those) - Clear everything once again (final 15 minutes). Then easily kill the boss. ( I suppose I could run through this time though) So the game just wasted hour of your time and there was even no reward in the end. But funnily if there was a fun and challenging bossfight at the end it would be even worse, you would do all that only to find out that yes, after all you wasn't supposed to go there even though just a short while before you absolutely could do that freely. The whole thing was not hard at any point, the only thing you die to is being impatient. Every specific enemy is killed without getting a single hit on median average, yet since you need to kill 4 heide knights and 5 stone knight you get bored quickly and so there are quite lot of deaths to boredom. I wouldn't call it a 'mid-game' level since the bosses are easy even on starting gear. I had not watched the original video this one is a response to, but if this tedium is reduced in any way in vanilla then this area is better, no matter the enemy variety. If you add 10 more enemies of different varieties to this level it will only get worse not better.

[@marschallblucher6197]

Having played both here are my thoughts: I heavily prefer DS1 and even more so 3 (not a fair comparison tho since it came after) primarily since DS2 felt so much more clunky compared to DS1. Even fast weapons had long end lag Combat often felt turn based. Just dodge their attacks, attack them a few times, repeat until hp 0. Scholar reduced the "gankyness" of a lot of areas (dragon Arie was a major improvement) though some areas weren't as big of improvements (the heide knights on the way to old Dragonslayer are genuinely awful to deal with. The spear one's in particular.) All in all, Scholar was definitely sn improvement. And DS2 is a genuinely great game. Just carries a lot of flaws and is further (unfairly) crushed by comparison to DS1.

[@Domo3000]

In my opinion DS2 let's you fight in the most aggressive way by dodging enemy attacks by attacking yourself. Like here's me using a UGS to duck below the Mace Drakekeeper attacks: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYCrl3WZaMqAeck And here I'm dodging Fume Knights attacks by attacking myself: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jHe7m3R6qtKGj6c This aggressive playstyle works with a few enemies in DS1 and DS3, but so many more in DS2. You can also see me do it in this video against the Dragonrider and some Old Knights.

[@marschallblucher6197]

@@Domo3000 You can do that in all the souls games, I remember using the straight sword R2 to duck under geal's horizontal swipe. In DS2 though it's much harder to pull off as only a handful of weapons let you duck low enough and most boss arenas a flat ground so you can't lure them boss to a better Position to do it. Not to mention the gank hitbox all the souls games have awful hitboxes but in DS2 they're animated in a way where it looks like you get by something you shouldn't have so visually it doesn't look great. A lot of attacks have lingering hitboxes (pursuer grab) or have hitboxes one random parts that don't make sense. When I fought fume I don't think got hit by his greatsword once. But I _did_ get hit by the air around his elbow that somehow deals exactly the same amount of damage. ER is probably best for this sorta play style. So many more attacks make you duck down or jump up and can lead to straight up anime-like moments

[@Domo3000]

@@marschallblucher6197 the thing is that hitboxes in DS2 are falsely accused of being poorly done. In a lot of cases they are tighter than similar attacks in DS1 or DS3. I've got a lot of hitbox visualizations and videos on my profile of me trying to duck below attacks in DS3 but getting hit even though the weapon went a foot over my head.

[@Domo3000]

@@marschallblucher6197 you can see the Pursuer grab hitbox in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eIjdo52Lo5Vllcksi=ppi8DJepvHO9dZvp It doesn't linger at all

[@phoebedraper170]

2:43 that slow turn to the branch of yore statue is hilarious because it completely goes against the point you made in the statue video about scholar guiding you to try both paths of lost bastille (pursuer and flexile sentry).

[@PUR3lCHA0S]

Branches are pretty limited at that point in the game, if you burn one there you might be forced to explore somewhere else until you can find a new branch of yore. Kind of matches the trend where some Pharros Lock Stones are optional. It might also be there to reward backtracking, there's the sublime bonedust guarded by a Syan Knight which newer players have skipped because it was harder to deal with than the other enemies in the area.

[@Domo3000]

How does that statue prevent you from walking further and exploring No Man's Wharf?

[@Asher17]

Problem is, the optional half of heides tower just sucks no matter when you do it in Scholar

[@Domo3000]

I like it

[@stayhydratedwalter]

The drake alone makes scholar worse

[@TeekoSheeko]

So all the points you make in this video reinforcing the original critique rather than disproving it somehow makes the original critique disingenuous? All he said was that the additional Heide knights make the area more annoying and that is just objectively true.

[@Domo3000]

I disproved several of his points, like when he disingenuously lied about the damage being too high by playing underleveled in a higher NG cycle and falsely claiming that it's early game in NG And how is turning the empty-feeling half into an optional side challenge a bad change? It's a lot more interesting now