Is Honda Really Copying KTM? | Honda Hornet

[@spitescorner]

Do you think Honda is copying KTM or is this just a coincidence? Definitely feels to me like someone's copying someone else's homework...

[@kaimightbeadragon8532]

Shoulda got the Hornet as a severance package. You built it just as much as Erc

[@emoservedwithfries]

I'm thinking the hornet will look like a big grom in the end. I can't see honda putting the sketch headlights on. It will go round.

[@ridenm7748]

I hope they are copying KTM. Who doesn't want a KTM or Ducati that is lower maintenance?

[@MK384]

new hornet looks ugly as hell. Should take a cue from Kawasaki, and respect its legacy.

[@niceguyrides]

I think they are playing catch up….

[@marxteven]

to be fair, the triangular headlight silhouette was first seen on the 2011 CB600F, 7 years before the 790 Duke came out

[@5shifts]

Yeah but it's different

[@ricardoleitao6912]

'07 duke 690

[@zaydgill545]

I ride a 2012 cb600f, the duke is alot more angular and insecty than the cb600f but there are some similarities with the headlamp true

[@marxteven]

@@ricardoleitao6912 the 690's silhouette is vastly different from the 790 nor any honda.

[@robertdevald]

2005 GSX-R! haha :D

[@Masse24796]

Concratulations to 70k ✌🏼 Your success is well deserved. 04:51, there is another Africa Twin bike, the NT1100 also uses the AT Engine

[@Unfunny_Username_389]

Yeah - i was gonna say. Do they get that in America?

[@Masse24796]

@@Unfunny_Username_389 idk, but they spoke about that back at a Yamcast Episode

[@hahdwerk596]

@@Unfunny_Username_389 as of yet, no.

[@vtrack1963]

The bike you may be missing on this engine is the rumored Transalp. Putting the engine in multiple platforms will work well for Honda. It is no different than Yamaha with a MT-07, XSR700, Tenere, and Tracer 700. The power numbers are excellent for those types of bikes, especially for the mid-Adv, Transalp. The danger for Honda is that the Transalp will scavenge Africa Twin sales. What I’m looking for is the pricing. Nice video.

[@kevinmiller4312]

I was gonna say the same thing if you didn’t. If they price it correctly, the TransAlp will be a fierce competitor to the T7

[@validation119]

Local dealer to me in the UK has got pictures and a price tag of £6999.

[@kevinmiller4312]

@@validation119 oh how I hope that’s the actual price. That’s better than I was hoping

[@dmitrijr7065]

New Transalp prototype was already caught unmasked in Europe

[@validation119]

@@kevinmiller4312 let's hope its not like the NT1100 that started release at £11.999 and is now £12,499 lol.

[@beingsolo80]

Honda do deserve credit for their CB series. The CB1000R is unique.

[@scottamolinari]

Yep. I agree (disclosure - I own one). 😁

[@CodeNinja79]

Excellent video, and I agree with you. I just sold my second 919 last week, I had an '03 when I lived in Florida and an '04 when I moved up to the UP. I'm going to miss the bike, they are amazing rides, but it had sat most of the summer since I got my Norden and it's a bike that needs to be appreciated. Thankfully the guy who bought it was super excited to get it (flew in, drove it home 6 hours, mad props). This new bike doesn't really sound like a 919, which was basically a super sport with the bodywork removed. I look forward to your research video on the parallel twins. The Norden is 'my' first (briefly owned a GS500 that I bought as a wreck, fixed, and sold). I admit to being very impressed with the KTM 890 motor in it, it's got a lot of character and is no slouch on power and fuel economy. Also, looking good on the subs! 100k by end of the year? Let's get it done!

[@keithquinn5624]

Norden is one of the ugliest bikes out, congrats! 🤣😂

[@seanmccurdy94]

I'll never sell my 9er!!! You couldn't make me!

[@CaptainCrossplane]

I'm actually happy they made this engine placement. I was always speculating/hoping on a mid segment Africa Twin, like 700-800cc to compete with the Tenere. And it looks like we might get one at some point. They could use this engine for it, i'm looking forward what they have in mind.

[@WeItenspinner]

Good news for you. There will be a 750 transalp next year.

[@CaptainCrossplane]

@@WeItenspinner Yeah but a Transalp is not an Africa Twin, at least I hope they wont make it as ugly as its predecessors

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

@@CaptainCrossplane Yea, early renders look like they intend to compete more with the Versys than the Tuareg or Tenere.

[@gokulkrishm51]

@@CaptainCrossplane I saw some "spy" pictures weeks ago (don't know if that's real). If that's real, I'd be very much disappointed.

[@tomodea2266]

Hey Spite I hope you know that we all appreciate you working your ass off getting this channel up in the air! Loving the content and keep up the good work!

[@willyjimmy8881]

Only a harley guy would say, "reliability? Meh." 😂 But really the star bike for the 755 motor will be the Transalp, and yes, a lot of us are pretty excited about it. Honda isn't as insignificant as you might think. So many of us have been burned by other brands and stick with Big Red. We know they're on the more expensive side but we also trust them.

[@Mudmoto_Marine]

Funny thing about the cam system that Honda has; it's actually a little different from conventional SOHC. It's called their "unicam" system, and basically the cam directly actuates one set of valves while using a rocker arm to actuate the others. The result is performance in between a true SOHC and a DOHC engine.

[@ridenm7748]

Eh, I'd prefer a traditional sohc with a bigger displacement if more power is needed. This is pretty much the same amount of hassle as a dohc valve adjustment.

[@RoeyHaviv]

Yep, I have that in my VFR1200, that new engine looks like my V4 cut in half (and bored). Anyone that worked on CRF knows the unicam well.

[@hahdwerk596]

What does the unicam mean for valve maintenance?

[@RoeyHaviv]

@@hahdwerk596 the maintenance difficulties are more a factor of getting to the heads,not so much DOHC/ unicam, valve adjustment on a CRF is way easier than on my VFR1200, since the V4 has two heads and the front on is really close to the frame.

[@hahdwerk596]

@@RoeyHaviv how long are the check/adjustment intervals compared to non-hybridized cam or rocker valve actuation?

[@CaptainJacksIsland]

There's no failing with trying to make a Fortnine style video. If you try expanding what you do, you'll have learned something. And if you put what you've learned into your videos, you'll have elevated the quality of your channel. Shoot for the stars, man. Let people know what you're capable of.

[@bernardomotard]

I'd love more fortnine style videos, even if they are lower quality

[@donachille3351]

@@bernardomotard how are they of lower quality?

[@bernardomotard]

@@donachille3351 fortnine videos are unmatched in production quality in the motorcycle world. At least for now.

[@bernardomotard]

@@donachille3351 I mean that I'd like more channels to make fortnine-style videos, even if they aren't perfect.

[@rocketrollsvlogs7625]

I see you are up to 71k subscribers. Congrats. Hopefully you break 100k in another week or two. I'm glad you admitted you were being emotional. I think the CB750 will be a hit. It will be a fun suburban commute around bike. I also love the 270 degree parallel twin engines. Looking forward to your deep dive. FortNine style will be cool. Great going Spite.

[@bike-drop]

Dear Spite. I need your point of view on a possible future video. I'm an especially short rider. 5.4 I was thinking of adding a used 2002/2008 cbr-f600 on my fleet, purely for traveling. Since for me, it's gonna have the size a Hayabusa has for you. I won't be comfortable on a very heavy motorcycle. I hardly go above 75-80 miles per hour on highway when on a trip. So I don't really need a bigger engine, 100hp is more than plenty. Plus my Country has huge taxes the higher you go on cc's. The pricing on those bikes up to 2008 models are around 2.500 euros/dollars. The average salary in my country is 600euros/ dollars. The year long services, ranges from 100 to 300 euros/ dollars. That's the case if no malfunction occurs. The average miles on those used machines are 70.000. Should I proceed with this? Is it a bad investment? What are your picks for small riders? We're always talking used with kinda high mileage on the chassis.

[@MotoJoshP]

I mean... Copying KTM would be a pretty good way to add some spice to Honda's lineup. I'm here for it.

[@spitescorner]

It's just sad they have to borrow ideas from the competition now

[@anxiousappliance]

@@spitescorner What idea? Some similar plastic molding over the tank. Everyone is making 270 degree p twins. One thing they won't copy is build quality.

[@porterreeves2049]

As a life-long rider at 62 years old, I have always preferred my Honda Motorcycles. They were never the fastest (for long anyway) but they have always had a quality about them that is worth the extra premium price. As far as the parallel twin goes, I wouldn't even consider a KTM over a comparable Honda as KTM doesn't have the best reputation for ease of maintenance and reliability. Even with the 650 Honda, it's a bit heavier, and a little slower, plus more expensive, but it's an absolutely gorgeous motorcycle! I've had some interesting Hondas, GB-500, 1979 CBX, 400-4, two Hawk GTs, etc. In a world where almost every motorcycle will suit someone's needs and wants, I don't care if Honda builds a bike for an existing niche, without flexing it's technology muscles, and charges me a little more for the quality. There's a lot to be said for good motorcycles. By the way, one Honda that fit me perfectly, that I didn't buy and still regret, was the 919 in flat black. I bought the new 2001 Bonneville instead. I still kick myself.

[@sunrisejak2709]

Honda has the NT1100 based off the Africa Twin as well. Not yet sold in USA but I have one and its a pretty good machine and performs predictably as expected being a family member of the parallel twins 270 crank. The parallel twin platform is the lowest cost and value for money. Pretty "vanilla" but functionally pretty competent. Also global regulations and homologation can get very expensive. Engine configurstions that are not shared across many categories will be hard to justify. Hence the filtering out and paring down the number of engine types. Getting volume and greater magnitide by using the "same" engine in many applications dictated by cost targets.

[@zyonsdream]

I’m interested in your P-Twin video. I’m a big fan of the P2 engine. I’ve owned many Honda P2 and currently ride a Tuareg 660 P2. Th he P2 is popular because they make good power and torque,have reliability and seem to be easier when conforming to Euro requirements. Singles are regulation nightmares and in-line 4 just don’t make the power where most use it. The P2 has really come along with the ADV boom.

[@georgegarcia3182]

Excellent observation.

[@drsuzuki6506]

I love the way you're doing these new videos. Thoughtful, informative, and entertaining. 👍

[@michaelbrum1]

Hey Spite huge long time fan, I just finished my MSF Course and passed! I'm going to start riding soon and I'd love to hear your take on different gear you'd recommend for a sport bike rider.

[@ManCannotRide]

Here in the Philippines, Honda is on the top list with Yamaha for being the "lets price our bikes way too high" companies. I agree with Spite, reliability is the only thing left that carries Honda these days. Riders/owners don't really care anymore about longevity and reliability because after around 5,000kms, they will sell their bikes and move on to another. The new generation of riders are now more focused on styles and looks. That can be the reason why Honda is somewhat "copying" the styles of other bikes so they can sell. New riders are also often the millennial type with short attention span, gets bored easily, emotional and impulsive. Honda sees these things and is now trying to "look" cool for the Instagram generation. But enough about Honda being somewhat of a boomer. My main gripe with Honda is their pricing. I don't really mind if Hondas are not stylish, I was born 1978 so, but I care about, or I dare imagine that someday, a Honda will be the most affordable Japanese motorcycle. Combine this with their seemingly immortal reputation of reliability and you can have a motorcycle that you can ride and be proud of. You have to be able to buy it so you can ride it, right? Then you'll be proud to say, "I only do oil changes with my bike and it's been 50,000kms nothing has broken, even the chain is still from factory". That my friends is the...THE HONDA that I have grown to know about. But no. Reality bites the reliability crown because Honda motorcycles, at least from where I live, are the most expensive Japanese bikes.

[@nickq204]

That’s a nice synopsis of the “Honda problem“. I was seriously looking into a CB650R, which I really liked. However, I bought a Z900 instead, because it was more bike, for a little less money. Even the insurance premium was cheaper. As far as the new Hornet specs, yeah, I’m with you. I admit I’m an inline-4 guy, and P-Twins aren’t all that interesting to me. IMO, the inline-4 belongs in the Hornet. If I wanted a twin, I’m more likely to look at a Rebel or a Shadow. If I’m looking for performance, a parallel twin isn’t gonna cut it for me. I believe a lot of this parallel twin fever stems from the success of Yamaha’s FZ/MT-07 and all the other manufacturers want to get in on it.

[@chucksherron]

They are popular with manufacturers because they are cheaper to build and for owners they are cheaper to maintain and modify.

[@stubbingtonmarigold3032]

It’s weak.

[@_AnanasIEgenJuice_]

The CB650R is 95hp, the 85hp is probably dyno numbers, but I get your point in it being a bit outside the 650 class. I think Honda is probably trying to create a new "class" since they probably think the 650 class is too competitive.

[@MrJMatch]

Hi Spite! Here's a counterpoint Honda may be thinking that while this bike won't be anything especially novel, it can be a great competitor in the market. Arguably, it hits the specs of what's currently desirable and selling: lightweight, useable torque, and aggressive styling. It could then compete with the popular and successful MT-07 as well as with the similarly successful Trident, not to mention the KTMs. Even if it's similar to the KTMs, many including myself aren't fond of the look, particularly the headlight and color schemes. If this new bike has better aesthetics, is more comfortable, and offers more riding aids than say the MT-07, and assuming its priced competitively, they can steal away buyers of those bikes. That's a smart move. I think the disappointment might be more from the perspective of enthusiasts and spec sheet warriors like many of us are who want something novel. --Regarding the "Hornet" branding, I think it's more a marketing scheme drawing on the name, and perhaps from the video released by Honda it's not a total ploy, since they're arguably aiming to tune it to ride similarly to the old Hornet, regarding the rev range where it made its power. If they made a four cylinder it'd add a good bit of weight and not be as marketable. That's I think the best case: do what's successful but do it better, and make it ride in important respects like their classic Hornet. I do agree that styling and engine wise, it'd be better to brand their 1000cc naked bike as the Hornet, and fine-tune it to have the old one's riding characteristics. --You know, as a fellow guitar player, folks love reissues of classics, and I wish Honda would do basically a Hornet reissue, with just some basic updates like LED lighting and ABS. Maybe they don't think there'd be much profit, but heck if they just did a limited run . . .

[@killerdeviant]

Nobody reads long ass comments

[@sailor81]

@@killerdeviant sure we do, we're here to discuss motorcycles

[@petrol11]

limited runs are usually the expensive part .. tooling up costs big time and big money. Better to go all-in on a specific model and run with it hard

[@MrJMatch]

@@petrol11 Fair point. Limited runs are much cheaper I take it with other items like guitars. I've just heard so many good things about the original Hornet, and it has such classy looks, that I think it'd sell well (that a good chunk of people, the fans, would get it right away), but likely not enough to be a competitor with a popular modern bike.

[@BigDan7114]

I’m glad I came across your channel and happy to subscribe and view. Well done , quality content. Long time motovlogger viewer. Glad to support .

[@yonniboy1]

I couldn't agree more that the new Honda shouldn't carry the Hornet name, the Hornet (both 600 and 919) were great bikes with excellent performance for not a lot of money but other manufacturers are also desecrating the names of formerly legendary bikes by giving the name to lesser bikes for example the R7 and also the Kawasaki Z650 which was originally a four cylinder bike.

[@j4zzx297]

As someone who's owned bikes from most brands, I think overall the honda price tag is worth it. I've found them to be more reliable and offer better mpg than most competitors. Plus you can still go to a honda store and buy parts for a 20 year old bike without issues (that's not the case with most of the competition).

[@22astom]

Spite, off topic question, but what gloves are you wearing in this video? I'm in a search for a good pair of gloves and keep failing with each attempt.

[@spitescorner]

Revit Stryker 3

[@joellikness2121]

Great video, thanks Spite! I had no idea about a new hornet on the way. I agree that the naming scheme is dumb, but I think another naked P-twin is a great thing for motorcycling in general. Looking forward to your "deep dive" video, keep up the good work!

[@donovankishbaugh460]

Dude 70k I'm so proud of you man let's go 1 million.

[@papatorr3669]

Spite, I went out and purchased an 06 Honda Hornet 919 simply on your recommendation! It fits in what I call the sporty bike category that falls between a standard sitting position and a track bike sitting position. Now I'm kind of wishing that they made a cb919 Nighthawk, too. I have several sporty bikes which include the Thunderbird Sport 900 triple, Suzuki Bandit 600 inline four, Suzuki SD 650 V-twin, Yamaha radian 600, and the Nighthawk 700S. So correct me if I'm wrong everyone, but to me the CB 900F was the eventual replacement to my Nighthawk S. Sporty bikes are my favorites, I guess you guys would call them naked bikes.

[@emmettturner9452]

Spite: No one in the English-speaking world is talking about the just-announced Ninja ZX-25RR (double-R) that Kawasaki announced in Indonesia last night along with the ZX-25R refresh. Only way to get green and has a ZX10R shock/forks. What will this mean for the ZX-4R announcement in a few days? Will a ZX-4RR be the only one to get dual-disc from brakes?

[@Mkivfan28]

As a 919 owner, I think the new Hornet is missing the mark. Parallel twin vs inline 4, seems against ethos. Not to mention, the specs seem close to the CB650R which actually has the inline 4.

[@KeViNMCMXXCIX]

It's kinda like the Sugomi look many of the mid 00's and '10s naked bikes with the Hornet. Every manufacturer or at least the big 4 of Japan did that look and love them for that. And I for one, really like the styling aesthetics of those. They made me look into getting a Naked bike as a first bike here in The Netherlands. To me combined with the ergo's and ride-ability it's all I ever want and need to be agile in traffic. So I think it's kind of copying but also ain't, because it may just be a new theme if I can call it a theme rising up. I do agree with you a P-twin sure it's a nice engine, cheap and easy and reliable. But since they are branding it Hornet I agreed with having a 4 cylinder engine would be more of a lineage/trowback/continuation of the name. If emissions is a thing with producing engines of a motorcycle (not sure since they still produce 4 cylinder engines with cars) they could have gone with a 3 cylinder. As you said the CB's are the real Hornet looks and engine wise. Smaller CC and a higher CC variant just like the Hornets from earlier. Compared to what's available now, new or used i'm also not sure how the Hornet will land with young adults to adults to elderly people who ride still. As a 32 year old i'm excited to see the Hornet and ride one, but then I also would love to ride an older one. I'm riding a CB650R on my lessons and it's a great bike, so I am familiar with riding an Hornet like type bike. Also rode a Z650 for a few times. So time will tell how it will be received, or if it'll get the SP treatment with a 4 cylinder or higher CC P-twin. And the CB will remain the Hornet under a different name for some more years to come.

[@theprodigalstranger5259]

(0:48) Why is there a grill in the middle of that trail? Honda can overcome the 90hp and make it compete in the class with proper gearing. The spec sheet warriors will pick it apart, of course, but it could be great. They also need to make it great value for the money which , admittedly, Honda hasn't done much of lately.

[@dsofe]

The one thing you DON'T want to copy off the 890 duke is the styling.

[@jeremyvahle5861]

How dare you sir! I am not on my way to get body bolts for my CB500x just to be alerted by KZbin I ride a knock-off bike. I’ll watch the video and provide a real comment when I get home. Glad you’re so active on vids Spite. Loving them all so far!!!

[@jackmaddox4960]

OH man, I had a 919 in Germany, and had to leave it there when I came back to the US; really regret that! I also had a Yamaha XJR1300 a few years later, which is another bike in the same sorta character as the 919, and just as good, IMO; really miss that one too... As far as Honda bikes using the parallel twin, don't forget the NC750, and the X-ADV750 (which I don't think is available in the US market at this time, since it's essentially a 'maxi-scooter' adventure bike; um... adventure scooter..? Anyway, a big-ass scooter with a 750 parallel twin and offroad suspension/wheels/tires), and I think there's another one that I'm forgetting right now... Anyway, it's true, parallel twins are sprouting up everywhere like mushrooms...

[@Camilink94]

you should look at the CB190R

[@youmadbroup5352]

I mean in the past most street motorcycles were 4 cylinders either it be inline or like the Honda v4s so I think basically the twin cylinder is now the new standard. I mean it does make sense for a street motorcycle cheaper to produce lighter and you don’t need the top end of a inline 4 for the street. Im a making any sense ?

[@tentaclemonsta2447]

Love the content bro! But you should go back down that trail and see if that BBQ works 😆

[@davidzavala337]

70k subscribers! Congratulations 🎊 👏. By the way, you know anything on the new Honda Scrambler? Is the US getting it?

[@ADingoTookMyDasco]

Like their car division, Honda motorcycles have spent the last 20+ years trading off their performance reputation from the 90's. There's a bunch of Honda's from the 80's & 90's that I'd love to have owned, but i can't think of a single model since the turn of the century that truly stirs my loins. And, Honda being Honda, with every other manufacturer making 650cc+ twins, they came to the market with a 500cc model just to be contrarian. Being a twin simp, I'd love for this new model to be a return to form for Honda, echoing the stamp they made with the VFR's, Fireblades & Hornets of old, but i think that this is more likely the case of Honda being Honda again.

[@sportify4849]

What do you think about the VFR 800 F you had before? How would you rate it today?

[@benwilkinson5879]

Yes... Definitely copying the competition. I also agree that Honda has created a negative sentiment around the prices they offer. But I am continually reminded when friends/family take my Honda cb650r for a spin and why getting a Honda seems like you've entered the VIP "club." I continually hear those that compare my bike to theirs as mine feeling more smooth, reliable & locked in. Reliability is worth the extra dollars for that premium feel.

[@mototigress]

I get this same feedback on my CB500F when my friends on other Japanese bikes ride it. Feels more premium, for sure!

[@benwilkinson5879]

@@mototigress 100% the cb500f is another great example of this!

[@rider147b]

The company who makes the most reliable motorcycles attempting to copy the company with the most fun motorcycles?!! I'M IN!!! The moment Honda makes a reliable SMCR/Enduro 690, 500EXC or 890 Adventure R, I'm saying goodbye orange, and hello red!!

[@RMSIN393]

Spite, I know your riding jacket was from YN store, do you know of anywhere else I can pick it up? We look like similar frame builds and I think it would be a good fit for me. Thanks!

[@spitescorner]

My jacket has been discontinued by Speed and Strength unfortunately...

[@RMSIN393]

@@spitescorner Ughhh! Thanks Spite, appreciate the reply!

[@pauljirinec2772]

Any thoughts on that Atlas throttle lock that was on the bike?

[@Pmor75]

Of course it matters. First it will be cheaper than the cb650r, second more reliability than a KTM. Third EURO6 emissions regulations will make more sensible to do parallel twins engines since they are easier to comply with the norms. Honda every day instead of a KTM. I am looking forward to it!

[@Hugo_WP]

Love seeing you already getting more views than others 🔥🙌

[@davidm4814]

Good video Spite. We also have to consider how much the actual released styles differ from the concept drawings.

[@japiebosch6281]

Oh man, I JUST watched a Fortnine video and thought: "man I wish more channels of this genre would be this high quality!" And here we are, Spite saying that he is striving for it. But it would be glorious even if he falls short for a long time but tries to stick with it

[@bujabusiness]

I would love for Honda to copy KTM. Having their cool designs in a bike that didn't leak oil or take 9 years to get fixed because you have to have a part from Viking Land would be phenomenal

[@fullmetalcorgi1350]

Honda should supercharge a Goldwing

[@staygray6212]

I dream of swapping a gl1800 into a Honda beat. What I wouldn't give to see a supercharger on that flat-6... such a fun idea

[@mototigress]

I don’t actually think it’s going to come out looking all that much like the Duke. At least I hope not… I find Dukes to be ugly. 😅 I’ve honestly been so happy with my CB500F that I am very willing to consider the new proposed Hornet. I think there will be a market for it, because Hondas are just good. They feel much more premium than their other Japanese counterparts, IMO. Switches, seats, etc. Maybe I’m bougie but the little things make a difference for me and I don’t mind a slight price increase.

[@BikingVikingHH]

My ex girlfriend got the 500 F, I picked it out for her as she is 🇩🇰 and the red and white color scheme was a no-brainer lol I loved riding that bike; really anywhere other than the freeway I liked it more than my own FZ1. I’d never get one myself as I am addicted to horsepower, but man that thing was fun around town, and especially in the hills of San Francisco

[@bonacci01]

That new 2022 500x with the upgraded front end in the green color has caught my eye lately ….

[@mototigress]

@@BikingVikingHH 100%. Everywhere but the highway, it's perfect. I commute mine to work frequently and love that it never runs hot, it's always butter smooth shifting, and is extreeemely fuel efficient. Not to mention great handling. How can you hate that? What some say is a lack of character, I enjoy the refinement.

[@22smcrrider96]

I am looking forward too seeing what this finalizes as! I absolutely love how the dukes look! But I m not too sure if honda is gonna b able to compete with KTM in this category

[@DrBernon]

I would have loved to see a bike with 6 125 cc pistons roaring in harmony like an f1. But I suppose they also scrapped it because the torque would be kind of crap. And nowadays we are torque junkies.

[@andrei8k3nt87]

When i hear "Hornet" i have in mind that 919 style, not that ktm style looking bike. I really like that old design and the engines were reliable too. In România we say "Honda-i Hondă" like this manufacturer is an relieability etalon. I just bought for myself a 2002 600cc PC36 and it's awesome, no electronics, in line 4, carbs, I love it

[@rafaellastracom6411]

BTW Congrat´s on over 70,000 subs Spite. You´re over the initial hump so smile a bit.

[@dasko3]

So this is really well articulated as per your usual fine level of work. Honestly, I expect this to come in potentially cheaper than the CB650R. Yes, Honda's are pricey, but honestly, they do seem to price their bikes competitively. They are aware of the market. While Honda may not be the wild and crazy brand of the past, they do still seem to very much be a brand that follows Shoresy's edict of if "you can't win don't play." Honda seems to fully willing to pull any bike from the market it is no longer able to go toe-to-toe with the competition. Is it worthy of the name Hornet? Well, not Super Hornet, but Honda has sold a variety of bikes in a variety of displacements all over the world as Hornets. So yes, it is worthy of the name. This is not the first time they have made a more reliable, easier to maintain KTM-style machine. Their current 450 dual-sports spring to mind as their version of an Austrian machine with a lower cost-to-own experience.

[@CalGLazer]

Stayed to the end and I’m glad I did. Definitely here for any fortnine ish content. Love that channel and would love more content in that vein!

[@RacerXGT]

I think it comes down to evolution, similarities almost always come up as we reach limits. Thanks for the vids as always!

[@cliveomahoney4096]

First time I've visited your channel after you left carpet bagger, Mr Monocle Monopoly Money, Y Nube. Good to see you're alive and kicking (back, I hope). The new Honda makes sense due to its fabulous pricing: £7,000 in the UK. That blows the opposition, and Honda's own CB 650 out of the water. It's a fabulous idea by Honda; a cheap, moderately powerful bike, with rider modes, good brakes and suspension (better than the opposition), light and good handling, for a bargain price. With Honda reliability and build quality. I shall be trading my CB650 in for one asap. The Hornet it replaces (not really) is the much loved 600 of yore. Not the later 900. It was a 4 cylinder bike, which I love. But, a twin, however boring, makes more sense for riding about town.

[@King-ww1kz]

I think, that you're doing an awesome job with less budget. Cheers to you my friend!!!

[@msims1250]

Not a lot of KTM dealers in my entire state, but you can’t spit without hitting a Honda shop. I think for that reason alone, KTM copy or no, the Honda will probably sell. Also, I’m looking forward to the Transalp. Good video.

[@Fred4662]

I agree in the most part, as a old Honda owner, I think Honda are doing the same as Suzuki, getting into the rush to make most bikes parallel twins, it is getting a little boring. It just seemed more exciting when there were twin and triple 2 strokes (of course emissions were a huge problem), and twins, triples, fours, sixes, v-twins and v-fours in 4 strokes (I know there are still a few triples and Ducati are still keeping up the last two but they are up in the hyper pricing zone with most BMWs and Harleys that most average people can not afford to buy or maintain). It just seems to be a shame that the major, more affordable bikes are all moving towards the same engine design /sound/power delivery. It is just not as exciting as it used to be.

[@jamesjanney4440]

BTW, Keep up the blogs. I believe I appreciate your insights more now than I did a month ago.

[@ogbg7128]

Dude, where are you riding in the beginning of this video? I live in Austin and would to know.

[@brucerossonthetube]

Imagine 1980 when every big manufacturer was focused heavily on DOHC inline 4 engines. The 270 P-twin is today's version of that. On another note I seem to recall the original 900 cc Hornet also suffering from what you call Honda disease. Overpriced and under-spec'd when compared to the competition. Its a great bike, but there is a reason they didn't sell more of them at the time.

[@efilanthropist1977]

Now that you're not with Yammie I really appreciate your depth and insight, which previously people might have thought was a product of Yammie Noob. You obviously have a greater appreciation of motorcycling in general without needing weird memes to fill space. Keep it up!

[@elliottsw]

I missed your vlogs. Keep it up man, it won't be long until you get your own team and your own garage. Your old channel has lost its main appeal (although it's still good, don't get me wrong) so it's great to see you doing your own thing.

[@user-lz7ic3hv3e]

I know this is off topic, But have you done the clutch bypass mod on your KLR? Just wanted to know your thoughts on it. Thanks,

[@burgersquid]

I mean, back in the 919's heyday it's closest competition was Bandits, ZRex, and FZ1s. I always saw the 919 as being the gentleman's naked bike, since those others are basically all meathead/hooligan bikes. I think in that sense this new one is keeping that tradition alive. As for the legacy of the Hornet name, usually I dont care about that at all but in this case, Honda are continuing to make naked 4bangers which are not Hornets. Seems kinda weird.

[@KB-yj5xp]

I bought the black edition cb1000r and I wish they had brought back the “night hawk” name for that model.

[@kenbower6611]

I'm old and probably don't matter. Been riding on the street for 40 years. I'm saving up for the ZX4R as soon as it's out. Honda? They lost me when they cancelled the CB1. Regardless, love your channel. Keep up the good work. You are the uncola!

[@getdownmikelove]

I had the 04 Honda 599. I loved that bike and hold it in very high regard. I put 86,000km on that bike and with regret sold it last year. The CB650 looks cool, but is putting out slightly less HP almost 20 years later. I think they need for it to make 110 or 115hp to get anyone to go for it. I'm not interested in a bike that looks like a KTM, which looks like a Kawasaki.

[@stephenlayland2889]

Coming up fast on seventy thousand subs. Good work. My favorite FortNine videos are the older ones in which he spoofs a classic movie, exploiting the material for verbal and visual callnacks and the ocasional pun outright. It takes Ryan two weeks minimum to produce one of these mini-masterpieces, and he does not work alone. You sound more as though you are planning something in the vein of one of his "explainer" videos, those in which he uses statistics and demonstrations to prove a point out of center lrft field. The uncosideered dangers of e-bikes. The use of automobile tires on motorcycles. The politics of helmet standards. I have seen that you are, in your own way, as sharp as Ryan F9. I know all about the long-standing enmity of the perfect against the good. Contrariwise, don't let yourself, especially as a one-man shop, be hamstrung by a self-imposed deadline.

[@SeaTacDelta]

Wow that windscreen distortion is really distracting. That would freak me out riding.

[@brushcreek]

Parallel twins make a lot of mechanical sense when it comes to reliability, ease of maintenance, and compact size vs. power. Boxers and V’s require two heads, more cams, and generally many more moving parts. In-line fours have power at high revs, a single head, but are not as easy to maintain and not as reliable. Big twins give the torque that most riders really need. I wish Honda made a parallel twin, single sided swing arm, shaft drive roadster/sport tourer. I want a Japanese ultra reliable, low maintenance machine to eat long miles and twisties with some saddle bags. I’m not interested in off road or “adventure” bikes.

[@Trotter13]

I beleive Honda has its market share and sales projections all figured out. I think they will move the amount of units they are planning, no worries there. There are lots of bikes from Honda that we don't care for here in the US but they sell them all over in huge numbers. The real thing I'd like to comment on is what we are considering small/middle-weight/large bikes. I can't see how a bike like the MT09 with 850cc displacment, 120hp and 0-60 in 2.9 seconds can be in the middle. I've had an issue with how we classify this stuff for a while. There has to be a better way to classify things for discussion. I don't know what it is mind you, LOL but there has to be a better way.

[@Llareggub]

Honduke - love it! Nice analysis as always Spite. What’s the Japanese for Scalpel - Mesu?

[@ManuelGarcia-qy6yz]

Hey Spite, check out the CB190R and see the inspiration from where this new bike might be coming from it's a very popular bike here in Mexico... It might just be a bigger version of that bike

[@Daniel-dj7fh]

I must say tho, I've been riding a cb500f for about 4 years now. And despite wanting a bike which looks sharper, like a cbr and a more interesting sound I really have no desire wanting more power. You can rev the little thing (halfway) up, and it's no where slow. Sure it's not a fireblade, but a 500 is faster than 80% of all cars to 150kmh, more than enough. I've had the contact of the horn wiggle loose sofar, shoved back in and it works again. Other than that, no issues what so ever. Now a 650ish cp2 cbr would be super spanky imo. It'd probably play hard against the R7. Or naked, the mt07. Very interesting category. I'd love to see an inline4 400-500cc bike like the Zx25r (or rumored zx4r), but that's probably not gonna happen because they'd probably cost too much.

[@T30-z5w]

Like you said why? It’s a crowded field. A used KTM790 ADV S is one of the best deals out there. I’ve seen them loaded for as little as $8500. I have one I bought new three years ago and it’s great both in the twisties and on forest service roads. Mine has 14k trouble free miles. It has cornering ABS, TC, heated grips, various ride modes and a quick shifter. Only about 450lbs wet.

[@arenalife]

The 270 firing interval is very pleasing, that's one of the things that's kept Harley going so long (the 270 being an emulation of a V twin firing rhythm). Things go in cycles though and IL4 will probably return one day, like flares

[@y968lcptubby9]

There's a term for it in evolution - Convergent evolution. It's the same as the late British bikes (right before they all went bust) looking pretty much the same; parallel twin, cradle frame, twin rear shock. I believe in dominating the market (in the UK at least) for so long Japanese manufacturers have gotten complacent and started to copy each other. Like the British bikes of old. Another example of this- look at the Honda, Yamaha and even Chinese-ium 125cc motorbikes, they all look pretty much identical.

[@hisride]

thats an interesting take. What do you think will happen from this? I personally think a lot of this is to do with emissions and there wont be a death and rebirth of an era, or at least the new era will be electric (really hurts to think abt that)

[@y968lcptubby9]

I think we're going to see one maybe two final Hurras for the internal combustion engine, like what gm keep doing with cars "let's do the really cool stuff before it dies* kinda thing and we're gonna see (probably Chinese) electric bikes take over because they'll inspire the younger generation like the Honda cub did with the "even a woman can ride" marketing

[@dondavis7329]

Great video and commentary. As a Duker 890 R owner I wondered the same thing from the Honda renderings

[@stubbingtonmarigold3032]

Yes but it will be more reliable

[@gokulkrishm51]

I really want to know if the KTM reliability issues I read online are real or not. My cousin and I have been using a Duke 390 since 2019. Only issue we had was to replace the rear shock two months back. No electronic/engine fails so far. Bike is well maintained.

[@kleidtomasse]

@@stubbingtonmarigold3032 meh I’ve owned a rc200(8 years 97k km) and a duke790(4 years 80k km) and still have them till this day with no issues(rc 200 had a broken radiator outlet fitting but that was my fault I stepped on a road debri aka rebar thinking it was safe if I slowly did making the rebar lift and hit the radiator hose and side fairing).. i also have a crf250 and a crf150r and both had head problems with the 250 having valve, overheating and clutch issues considering it is underpowered and only had that problem fixed when I traded both for a newer yz250.. oh and before the 790 I had a cb600f and burnt my rectifer 3 times and changed my battery twice.. mind you all of them are stock both mechanical and electrical.. hondas aren’t made like they use to be.. modern yamaha, royal enfield, BMW and KTM have better engine reliability than a modern honda.. yes KTM had issues with head gaskets before but those were mostly the indian made ones.. both of mine came from an austrian factory based on the vin..

[@ragerider6283]

Interesting video. I was aware of this bike & somewhat interested but not really excited tbh. It is very similar but most design sketches look the same these days imo, especially from Japan as that sketch could easily be a Kawasaki or Suzuki. Although Honda can really improve on the KTM design by giving it a sleeker rear end & exhaust routing as that is a weak point of the KTM design for me that I've never personally liked much. As for the new Suzuki, I think it will probably be something like a GSXS800 that will have very similar weight & power to the Honda & no more than 94bhp so it stays in line with Euro A2 licensing laws.

[@gbart7857]

Honestly, when I see a KTM I just think it needs a P-twin, better reliability, and a work-over from someone that actually understands anime. I'm looking forward to seeing what Honda comes up with.

[@NoahWeigert]

What do you recommend as a first bike for a 6'3 guy. That doesn't have more than 47 hp

[@pietrom1594]

Hey Spite! Now that the hornet has been revealed, and that the price is under 8k€ in Europe, i think this is going to be the "MT07 SP" that everyone has been asking to yamaha since the MT07 came out. Similar engine, more power, better suspension and chassis, ride modes. It's going to make a very strong case for itself in the market at this price. Regarding the name hornet I agree with you, I'd like to see that name on an inline 4 but (as hard as it is to admit) the days of small/mid displacement inline 4s are numbered, so it makes sense from a marketing prespective

[@seanpappone]

My opinion? This new P Twin makes make the same power, weights "roughly" the same as the CB650R... This 755cc is meant to replace the cb650r. "out with the old, in with the new" = I imagine PT is cheaper to make than I4 Looking forward to that "Fortnine- style(?)" PT twin video! Even if it fails, I would like to see a second one after that (so you can improve on it and make it awesome, etc. etc.)

[@Kawasaki1-m4l]

After owning a VFR750, Spite I understand where your coming from , Spite you may not be the motorcyclist journalist of the year for 2022, but you have my vote & are my favourite ( popa Yam doesn't get a look in )

[@motodad181]

Great videos man! Wondering if you have heard about Honda making a scrambler, CL300 and CL500? Hope you do a video on that also.

[@strangeadv4977]

Love the Metal background music in the opener..Never knew you were a music head so maybe Spite's corner can have a music corner...Cheers from Northern California🤘

[@jimmarshall807]

If the specs just released here in the UK are correct, the key stat is the price of just under £7K, 10% less than the CBR650 and more competitive with the MT-07

[@bmagada]

I love my rebel, but that hawk looks sick. It has the same dash and everything though......so it seems like Honda is asking if you want you 1100 in either a cafe racer or a cruiser flavor because the ride positions look awfully similar as well. Honestly I think the push of the 1100 is more of a push for DCT as well.

[@BR-ADV]

Don't turn into fortnine. So far you are the only guy who's motorcycle videos I can enjoy watching. Keep it up and ride safe 👍

[@dustinanderson4809]

I gotta say I Completely disagree with you... I think the 750 hornet is the new king of the hill in middleweight naked bikes... I dont consider a 900cc bike a middleweight. I think Honda has been killing it lately. The 300L and rally, the whole 500 series is excellent. Now the Hornet and upcoming Transalp. Hondas appealing to the new generation of riders... Riders that want 1 bike that can do it all AND do it efficiently..... Riders who are more interested in versatility and fuel mileage than how well it can wake-up the neibors or annoy drivers at stop lights.

[@ironken1796]

You're drawing too many "parallels" in this video. Haha.....I crack me up.

[@jamesjanney4440]

I do not understand the draw of a parallel twin in a large displacement bike. I consider anything over 650cc as a larger displacement. They sound like large lawn mowers to me. If I get a twin it will be small, or a V-twin. If I am getting a large displacement bike it is going to be an inline 4 or 6 (can you say CBX or older KZ1300?).