Is Islam or Atheism More Rational? - Hamza Tzortzis & Dan Barker

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[@nouraouni2819]

00:00 Introduction of the speakers 01:29 Schedule 03:30 Hamza Tzortzis opening statement 24:25 Dan Barker opening statement 43:50 44:24 Dan Barker rebuttal (8min) 53:00 Hamza Tzortzis rebuttal (8min) 1:01:30 Dan Barker rebuttal (5min) 1:06:52 Hamza Tzortzis rebuttal (5min) 1:10:05 Dan Barker closing statement 1:18:20 Hamza Tzortzis closing statement 1:25:50 Q&A

[@Overfloater777]

Thank you so much, Noura. Jazaki Allahu khayran 🤲🏼

[@nouraouni2819]

@@Overfloater777 wa-iyyak, no problem brother😊

[@slsa915]

جَزَاكَ ٱللَّٰهُ خَيْرًا

[@strifelord5239]

Dan: The Cosmos and the Universe is apples and oranges Also Dan: The Cosmos and God are apples and apples- but also apples and no apple- but apples and apples because I define apples that way, and oranges, even if there are no apples, has to be an apple if oranges exist as apples do. But apples come from no apples because we have an apple, and having an apple is not enough proof of an apple but rather no apples. And if there was an apple, I would reject that apple unless it tastes like an orange. Hamza: You're applesauce, mate.

[@2manyusernamestaken548]

Bro Subboor, put this in the description to generate timeline chapters.

[@SubboorAhmadAbbasi]

This debate is about 10 years old but it is entertaining and educational so enjoy, a classic throwback debate for newer audiences

[@roxanne2749]

I would like to see Humza Tzortzis or Muhammad Hijab or Abdullah Al Andalusi against great atheist philosophers like Dr Oppy Graham on the topic of God's existence or something related to it

[@amineberi5696]

Thanks br suboor I really enjoyed and it's been useful 🥰🥰🙂👍

[@kj8451]

JazakAllah khair brother Subboor.

[@shohorabahamed3753]

@@roxanne2749 But didnt Abdullah have a discussion with Oppy? I think he did and I watched a part of it. Also Jake.

[@allahhoakbar6659]

Masha Allah bless you sir

[@vafamily8966]

Great debate. The most chilling part was when Dan said even if there is a GOD and i met him and shook hands I still refuse to respect him, Bow down to him and I rather burn in hell! that reminded me of a few verses from the Quran. ALLAH HU AKBAR

[@explorerali1954]

THIS IS THE CONTENT I PAY MY WIFI BILL FOR.

[@worfoz]

quran is free but it does not support MP4, so it is useless now useless

[@VinceTwiga]

Atheist debate strategy: Step 1: make up lies about islam. Step 2: Refute those lies. Step 3: Claim you have refuted islam. Pathetic.

[@Bill_Garthright]

Really? Well, I'm not a debater. But I would say that atheism is more rational as long as you don't have even *one* piece of good evidence that your god actually exists. So, do you _have_ anything? Just *one piece of good evidence,* specific enough and in enough detail that I can judge it for myself, that your god is real, rather than just imaginary? Just *one?* To be clear, it would likely take more than one to convince me, but if you don't have even *one,* then I can't even take Islam _seriously._ Sorry. After all, evidence is how we distinguish reality from delusion and wishful-thinking. And so far, I've never seen/heard even *one* - not just when it comes to Islam, but when it comes to the claims of any religion. (And they _all_ make claims.)

[@dragieultra6603]

@@Bill_Garthright hmm.... you know about Quran right? lets say there exists a God. How do you think that God if he wished to write a book like Quran (or make a person write that book) would write that book? what will be the qualities of that God written book? and how will it be different from humans writing books?

[@GB-vs3uw]

​@@dragieultra6603 So you use the falsification test outlined in the quran, to prove the validity of the quran? Isn't that circular reasoning?

[@dragieultra6603]

@@GB-vs3uw forget Quran lets say a God writes a book (for argument sake) in order to communicate and guide humans, what should/might that book be like?

[@GB-vs3uw]

@@dragieultra6603 Why constrict it to a book? Why not talk to us directly?

[@AhmedKamel-ol6qv]

I am very proud that I was able to respond to Dan's weak arguments in almost the same way as Hamza. Thousands of hours listening to Hamza, Suboor, Hijab, and people in speakers corner's are paying off. :D :D

[@smkngunzzz1843]

Ahmed Kamel Respond to my “weak argument” about: 1. How can you call Islam a good Religion from a caring God when it supported Slavery? 2. Explain a 50+ yr old man having sex a with a 9yr old little girl. How is that good and from God😳? 3. Respond to why Shiites and Sunnis Slaughter each other. They’re both Muslims believing in the same “perfect Quran” yet they’re Enemies of one another🤦‍♂️.

[@waliul280]

Hamza literally mopped the floor with Dan. Like all typical atheists, he came up with the Fox news narrative, appeal to emotions, strawmans and ignorance about how Islamic theology works.

[@Just_logic]

Min: 54 Hamza “Are we listening with the intent of response or are we manufacturing response”. That is proper communication in a nutshell that would take a lifetime training.

[@infinto1]

"There are some people who do need the fear of punishment" is the understatement of the millenia at least

[@sarahnovella4971]

and i can't stress enough how fear of hell has stopped me from transgressing. 😅

[@John-lf3xf]

I thought of this argument yesterday while talking to a Murtad. How do you know that hell isn’t actually a part of the plan to keep people out if it? The self reference is trippy but analytically beautiful.

[@John-lf3xf]

@@sarahnovella4971 Once I realized that I was doing something pleasureful instead of a fard and then recalled that for those who do some good Allah will reward them in this life and they have no reward in the next and you can rest assured that real quick my behavior changed.

[@John-lf3xf]

@@jinn_1891 Did I say that?

[@ayyylmao101]

@@jinn_1891 Which is why the Qur'an also emphasises how God loves those who strive for His sake, and offers mercy and favour on those who strive for His sake. The Qur'an _also_ emphasises how God does not benefit from our worship, so striving in God's path is literally doing what is best for us, while also reaping reward from God because God is generous on top of merciful. Some people are receptive to fear, some people are receptive to love - and the true path is in-between. Fear God's punishment, do not despair in His mercy, and love God's reward.

[@FreePalestine_____]

Man! Hamza is really underrated.

[@chandrajeet2315]

Lol cause you don't know Hamza subhan Allah

[@ArsalanTahir80]

who says underrated? even if true, who is responsible for that? Not him for sure..

[@sainulabidhka5624]

@@LearnIslamNoetic wow! I didn't knew that😯

[@Ersilay]

@@sainulabidhka5624 You gotta check the works of sapience institute, be it on youtube or their website. It's absolutely amazing, finely good academics for Islam that are compatible with western academics and exposes Islam in a way that doesn't suffer from the transition between the two styles. What the brothers are doing there is simply a blessing for the ummah that does not have access to islamic works from a language barrier or just because of the amount of works that were done.

[@muhammadsyaiful8442]

His achievement is worldwide. 😁

[@quranikayat]

So helpful to hear hamza's arguments against an atheist, jazaka allahu khaira for sharing this debate akhi suboor

[@abdjeff5760]

1:04:17 he couldnt have exposed himself any better way: Sayyiduna Salman Al Farisi (radiyallahu ‘anhu) says, “I read in the Tawrah ‘Barakah in food lies in washing the hand after meals.’ I mentioned this to Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) and he said, ‘Blessing in food lies in washing the hand before and after eating.” (Sunan Tirmidhi, Hadith: 1846, Sunan Abi Dawud, Hadith: 3755, Musnad Ahmad, vol. 5 pg. 441)

[@99Shahab]

Wow all of hamzas argument went over his head wow

[@jucyboi]

Honestly, after watching Hamza and Subboor's debates with these "atheists" there is one theme that is common amongst all of them. None of those arguing with Hamza or Subboor are sincere, understand the discussion or the question of the topic, and do not make ANY effort to even understand any of the points they were SUPPOSED TO REFUTE. We end up with a debate where you have charlatans with the same old tired garbage rhetoric, including but not limited to fearmongering. In NONE of the debates have I seen any of these "atheists" even ATTEMPT to address the point of the debate smh. You would think that someone coming to a debate would have some sense of honesty or at least READ something. Absolute 🤡's and they simply expose that fact about themselves each time they open their mouths. In none of these debates have any of them ever made a formidable or intelligent claim. They come with emotional baggage yet allege that they follow only a naturalistic and empirical framework 😂.

[@profanotherletter4346]

this is 10 years ago, imagine if brother hamza has a debate today

[@GLOS_LOGIKI]

he would say similar non-sense. Never ending God is great theory but never ending anything else is bad:)

[@Ali-jk3cu]

“To say the universe came from nothing is to say a mother gave birth to her self” Hamza Tzortis Iconic

[@Whatsisface4]

It's a shame that atheists don't think that. It's only theists who think atheists must think that, but they don't.

[@ifizzypop87]

@@jinn_1891 what's the first form and how did that come about? Genuinely curious to hear your thoughts on this

[@BigBoss_85]

@@ifizzypop87 you won't get an answer from him. These kind of people have been using these same stupid non sensical excuses for ages. Then need to get with the times. Atheism is dying, they can't explain their world view.

[@Whatsisface4]

@@BigBoss_85 Of course atheists can explain their worldview. Simply, it comes down to proportioning ones beliefs to the evidence as being the rational approach. So, we have something, a universe, rather than nothing. What we don't have is evidence for why there is something rather than nothing, but neither do we have evidence of a creator, hence atheism. All Hamza is offering here is logic rather than hard evidence, and logic is only as good as the information you have to be logical with, and all the information isn't in yet. At the very least, Hamza is being hasty with his conclusion. Also, the more we find out about the universe the more we find it goes against our prima facie ideas of common sense logic and intuitions that Hamza is basing his ideas on, relativity giving good examples. This in a nutshell is the atheist's worldview.

[@gurutruthspeak598]

@@Whatsisface4 "but neither do we have evidence of a creator..." Is there ANY evidence that our Universe is the cause of its own existence? Is there ANY evidence from our observations to help explain why this universe even exists? Do we observe patters and discernable regularities within our universe, allowing us perform experiments, make assumptions, and hypothesis to better understand how the Universe functions...? And do these patterns, regularities and experiments explain why ANYTHING exists...? No, no, yes & no. So the real question is, what is the point of atheism and atheists'...? Why should anyone(aside from atheists') even acknowledge their existence?

[@robinrobyn1714]

When Dan Barker believed in God, he stood at the pulpit and preached about God. Now that he doesn't believe in God, he stands at the pulpit and preaches about God. God is Omnipresent.

[@paulcontursi5982]

Clearly, you haven't been paying attention.

[@robinrobyn1714]

@@paulcontursi5982 Clearly, you haven't heard of Dan Barker. He's the guy in this very video that you are watching.

[@GLOS_LOGIKI]

and yet he did not even preach about your imaginary friend

[@robinrobyn1714]

@@GLOS_LOGIKI And yet,he pathologically ranted about God, because God Exists and atheists know it.

[@GLOS_LOGIKI]

@@robinrobyn1714 yeah your imaginary brainless friend exists and he makes everything out of nothing, and 0 + 0 gives 1. It is so stupid.

[@aboalighazali9597]

Ma sha Allah brother Hamza may Allah rewards you and grants you high place in Jannah.

[@NanoAlawi]

Love Hamza. Full stop. Ma sha Allah

[@SALAM-rj8dk]

Hamza Andreas Tzortzis Gem ♥️💎

[@MAhmed-zs2vp]

The true diamond

[@SALAM-rj8dk]

@@MAhmed-zs2vp Indeed

[@Overfloater777]

I've watched that debate ages ago. Ugh, you reminded me how that atheist failed miserably 🤦🏻‍♂️. He's repeating the words of other atheists that's been repeated a thousand times. "I only don't believe in one more God that which you believe in".

[@simxntu]

Can just as well be said of the other guest.

[@luq_what_youve_done8172]

Imagine a flat earther comes and says: "Actually we are all flat earther , it's only that I reject one more model of the earth than you people do". Or imagine a vegan saying that we are all vegans , that the vegan consumes some fewer meat products than the meat eater does. The " I only reject one more God than you" is very silly and none the less tricky for some.

[@Overfloater777]

@@luq_what_youve_done8172 I like to give the parable of going in a room with a bunch of people and a computer on a desk. One person says that the computer is built by a guy called J, another says no, it's made by a group of people and he has a list of names of them, another says no, it's made by a cow, and another says it was made by a man called Zeus. And everyone has a different answer in the room to who built the computer. But one says "guys, I have evidence to who manufactured this computer, it's written here on it a company called Dell and there's also a manual here from Dell on how to operate the device!". Then another guy sees everyone discussing who made the computer and says "ugh, no no no, you're all wrong. Nobody made this computer.". And if someone tries to tell him how come, he'd say "you're all saying different answers, I just don't believe in one more maker in whom you claim made it". That statement of "I just don't believe in one more god" is so dumb and ridiculous just as this parable. Logically, the computer could never have made itself, nor has it always been there without any designer and manufacturer, nor is it there randomly, everyone naturally agrees that someone who's capable and highly intelligent designed and made it. And that unanimous natural agreement is what we call "al-fitrah". With a little knowledge of the manual, one can convince the rest of the deviants back to who the real maker is. Not knowing the maker doesn't entail no maker, that's utterly idiotic. Not to mention that they (atheists) add to the argument "you're the one claiming that the computer was made by someone, so the burden of evidence lies upon you, not me." which really just makes the person look even dumber. Nobody needs to prove this computer was designed because it's obvious to everyone that it IS. It is YOU who says that it came from nothing like magic! So THAT weird unnatural claim is what requires evidence, even though listening to them trying to prove it wasn't made by a maker is really a waste of time.

[@luq_what_youve_done8172]

@@Overfloater777 Good example brother. That is if some ignorant athiest even tries to read and understand all these. That is why I posted short examples debunking that thing. Non the less good argument.

[@simxntu]

@@luq_what_youve_done8172 Just a shame that organized faiths are in fact flat earthers.

[@Soyodi]

"Is this Therapy for you Dan" Hahahahahahahaha

[@danh4435]

Hi

[@mohameda5947]

@@danh4435 ha!

[@sainulabidhka5624]

🤣

[@robinrobyn1714]

Well said!

[@biogerontology7646]

Always mock your opponent if you cant win

[@meenoomeenoo4578]

I like that hamza started with a smile

[@GLOS_LOGIKI]

Yeah, if he says stupid things it is better to smile:) It can look more like a joke:)

[@alialsaffar9]

Ya allah, here I begin watching

[@GLOS_LOGIKI]

greetings to all imaginary freinds. Sounds mental, but who cares:)

[@mianatwood]

1:47:06 lmao he is talking about who you are etc and he all of a sudden says “you submit yourself to the pilot when you are on a plane.” I being pilot and watching this gave me a weird vibe 😂

[@bulidrians2182]

i mean if the person didn't "submit" he wouldn't be in you aircraft would he 😅

[@mianatwood]

@@bulidrians2182 lmao if anyone doesn’t submit to my rules in my aircraft…. Guess what? They not going on my aircraft 😂😆😆😆🤜🏿🤜🏿

[@rogersmith6813]

Great debate Loved it

[@aishax01]

Dan really came with arguments for a Christian, he hasn't studied Islam and started making random claims, I'm not surprised lol 1:05:00 like what bro, who said this???

[@worfoz]

quran states ten times that earth is flat, did you ever READ your book? there is no center on a sphere, Mecca os supposed to be the centre of something paganism, Ptolemy was wrong, the Universe is homogeneous and isotropic.

[@rebeuoriginel]

@@worfoz qu'ran never said the earth is flat you big liar keep crying qu'ran said the earth is egg-shaped LOL

[@worfoz]

@@rebeuoriginel Do NOT talk like a Muhamed fan, barbaric pagan earth is NOT egg-shaped, you parrot the lie of terrorist Naik about the quran Naik is a liar, why do you repeat his LIES about quran and the shape of our planet? why do you Muhamed fans always insult and lie?

[@worfoz]

@@rebeuoriginel Quran has a lot of lies and mistakes but the quran does NOT lie claiming earth is egg-shaped. This lie is made up by muslims, and used BY muslims to insult us. FYI: earth is a planet, SO it is a spheroid. There are basically two opposite types of spheroids. Eggs are the prolate type, which means it's elongated in the direction of a line joining the poles. Planets on the other hand are oblate because of their rotation. The quran does not talk about a spheroid, it talks about the ostrich nest, as it describes how alla stretched the earth like the big bird builds its nest. Islam is weird, but angry muhamedans lying and insulting and talking nonsense ABOUT islam is even weirder.

[@lacepub]

Let's don't forget, Hamza is former atheist Now i got it, why he embraced islam Alhamdulillah

[@worfoz]

fearing man made demon alla makes you an atheist too atheists can worship Kim Jong Un PBUH or another Great Leader, but they remain atheists, even when they worhip a MAN

[@abdelouahed7769]

بارك الله فيكم

[@jibril903]

I don't see the part where believers will sit and laugh at those burning in hell like Dan Barker alleged in the Quran 4:56-57. As a believer, I could never see myself act in such a way. What I know I can do is; not shed a tear for liars who lie, knowing well in order to deceive others and themselves.

[@timothywilliams4089]

The only lies are in your repugnant book of impossible absurdities and the supernatural.

[@jibril903]

@@timothywilliams4089 you're right. Lies emanate from your defiled book and your vile mouth.

[@timothywilliams4089]

@@jibril903 You are not listening, I don't have a book,...except for Harry Potter, which makes as much sense as the quran, which is the antithesis of science; a repugnant thoughtless tasteless collection of impossible absurdities, empty threats, supported by nothing, contradicted by everything, and the best it has to offer is a posthumous promise of a false dichotomy that cannot be supported by scrutiny. This is exactly what you do, threaten non believers, who do not believe in heaven, hell messengers etc. If these are true, just provide evidence,....without spouting the quran that is,.....bet you can't.

[@mega4171]

u must not be a true muslim then

[@howtodoit4204]

Dan talking about the bigger cosmos when he has no evidence for it lmao. The observable universe is all we can see everything else becomes faith based.

[@furiousinsects6386]

And how did you observe God? Nonsense…

[@muddtheboss415]

@@furiousinsects6386 You don't observe god, you use logic and rational thinking to realize He exists

[@furiousinsects6386]

@@muddtheboss415 your assumption is wrong, unscientific, untrue. If nothing comes from nothing then God can not exist because God is not nothing.

[@burhanahmad2825]

@@furiousinsects6386 someone give this man a medal...for not making sense

[@furiousinsects6386]

@@burhanahmad2825 I know for people of faith truth doesn’t make sense. Thanks for demonstrating it.

[@mianatwood]

1:36:05 “he sometimes speaks like a woman.” Imagine Hamzah had did this now… he would’ve been canceled by all the liberals

[@ayyylmao101]

They can try, LOL

[@mianatwood]

@@ayyylmao101 Peterson and sheikh Hamzah are very alike! I hope Peterson finds the true path. He seems genuine

[@sparkytech8787]

These atheists don't get the test in this life, If Allah (SWT) presented himself to humanity convinced every soul on earth, then how would that be a test we would all be doing the commandment of Allah (SWT) free will goes out the window, Subhanallah.

[@MegaAbs786]

53:50 = That's deep, man

[@maryambourkadi8888]

Veryyy

[@michaelevans4110]

1hr 33mins Dan should reject police and government as they use the "threat of physical violence". He's a hypocrite.

[@abdalsamiahsaed7303]

This is my first time listening to this Dan n I can't belive that a full-grown man with gray hair is that shallow n ppl actually think he's making sense

[@itisyouthatiadore]

Dan baker should cringe watching this today.

[@GLOS_LOGIKI]

No, the stupidity of never-ending God creating from nothing- this is true cringe

[@cheicknacamara651]

Well said hamza we don’t say that Allah is infinitely merciful he is the most merciful there is a fine difference

[@vol94]

@@Edward-bm7vwSo you think not possessing every attribute ever makes you limited? Well, some attributes and actions can't coexist, like diginity and rape don't go together. This depends in what sense your talking. If I say my God does not have the attribute of lying or deception, someone can say, "So he doesn't lie or deceive, that means He is limited." He is not limited in power and in His perfect attributes, but some attributes He does not possess because those attributes are imperfect and belong to humans. Let me explain: its like the paradox, is God so powerful that He can kill Himself? That's like saying, can an all powerful being not be all powerful? Its a stupid question, like saying can a white bird be black. Its just a play on words, like saying God is limited if He doesn't possess every attribute. Problem is, many attributes are contradictory. No one wants unconditional mercy, you can't be merciful to serial killers and rapists.

[@vol94]

@@Edward-bm7vw As for God not existing, I have seen to many miraculous prophecies, historical miracles, and on personal experiences for my faith in God to ever been shaken in the slighest. As for your definiton of limited, its that if you are not everything, you are limited. God is unlimited in power, but unpractical and flawed emotions are completely non-existant from Him. God will always be omnipotent since He can do anything, but He always chooses to do the right thing, doesn't mean He is not omnipotent. Because He is omnipotent He can take any attribute or power, but because He is good He only has good attributes.

[@vol94]

@@Edward-bm7vw firstly, for the prophecies stuff, most people don't know much about those, its not vague at all, comparing it to Nostradamus is laughable, his propechies are far too vague. I am too lazy to write them right here so I suggest you watch these videos: secrets of ancient egypt revealed in Quran, by the channel manyprophetsonemessage, and also the secrets of magic revealed by Quran, from same channel (plz watch them, it will take some twenty minutes for each). It will show how the propechies and historical knowledge are crystal clear. These vids are just thr tip of the iceberg but it still has compelling evidence. As for if God has done evil, you seem like an atheist so you don't even have a grounding in morality beyond your personal taste, and I would like to know what evil you think God did, Cuz most quote the same buzz verses, "Kill the pagans," without reading verses such as, "But if the enemy inclines towards peace, you should also incline towards peace," and, "there is no compulsion in religion," and the verse which says that killing one innocent soul is like killing the entire mankind, and saving one soul is like saving the entire mankind. As for omnipotency, firstly thats a concept we can't even grasp, nothing unlimited, including unlimited power, can be grasped by us, but your paradox is the classic ominipotency paradox. Its saying, "If God can do anything, can He create a rock He can't lift." Its like saying, "Can an all powerful being not be all powerful at the same time?" So no, God does not contradict His perfect attributes.

[@abdulelahkhunji6871]

Amazing Hamza. MashaAllah, 🌹👍🏻

[@asem_6466]

Allah akbar

[@AShaif]

Great debate. As you guys are skilled in philosophy, I could not find a clip of you ( Subboor , MH, Hamza ) ever addressing the modal collapse argument against classical theism, basically the entailment of necessary being to its creation. This question is lately discussed and yet nothing was addressed about this from a muslim youtuber except Thought Adventure Podcast channel very briefly. I have my own thoughts about those notions, but it's great having your input as well.

[@luq_what_youve_done8172]

So do you want a logical argument for the existence of a creator ? I had a discussion with an ignorant athiest a while ago and I brought up a good logical argument for the nessesary existence of an Independent God. If you would like to I can copy paste the response I gave to that atheist and you can analyze my response. How about it ?

[@everythingandroidois]

@@luq_what_youve_done8172 sure

[@luq_what_youve_done8172]

@@everythingandroidois Logic can take into account for what we know. If you wanna doubt human logic then even science is nonsense, why? Because we use human logic for science too. Have you heard about the law of Noncontradiction ? Without that logical law science and maths are nothing. I hope you don't get offended and please try to ponder over it. This is just one of many argument but I lack some knowledge here and there. None the less here it is. Pay close attention. 1] everything that comes into existence must have been coused by something. 2] The universe came into existence so the universe must have a couse. The couse of everything must be independent and uncoused or else it needs other couses and those couses need their own couses. If the chain continued like this that would lead to infinite couses and it would be impossible for the universe we know to exist beacuse it would need infinite couses. Now we know that there had to be an independent couse for the universe, that couse must have a immens power to create something like this universe and it must have immense knowledge. It must also have a will because if it didn't have a will it would not be independent and capable of creating the universe. Then we also have the prophets which came down with the message of God to humanity. Prophet Muhammad being the last with the reavelad Quran. It's your athiestic logic which is not sound or logical why ? Because you guys believe something came out of nothing, you guys believe life can come from non-life ramdonly without a programmer or designer, you think we can get order from chaos, you believe we can get the immaterial from the physical matter. What a flawed logic. You guys would rather believe in dependent aliens creating the universe rather than all powerful god. The instincts kick in for an atheist we he is in big problems. There are no athiests in a sinking ship.please be open minded.{ This was my response to some athiest whom I had an argument with } hope it helps.

[@luq_what_youve_done8172]

@@everythingandroidois If there are any mistakes be sure to correct me , it would help me further develop my argument for the future.

[@everythingandroidois]

@@luq_what_youve_done8172 it is good argumentation; however, you spelled "couse" incorrectly throughout the whole thing. It is spelled "cause". You should also discuss the intuition we have to believe in One God who created everything, known as the fitrah in Islam. You should also check out these two videos from a Physics and Philosophy graduate, kzbin.info/www/bejne/kH_Pdqd4j92Agpo kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYC4pqyCarSSfdU

[@SubboorAhmadAbbasi]

Time stamps plz

[@nouraouni2819]

00:00 Introduction of the speakers 01:29 Schedule 03:30 Hamza Tzortzis opening statement 24:25 Dan Barker opening statement 43:50 44:24 Dan Barker rebuttal (8min) 53:00 Hamza Tzortzis rebuttal (8min) 1:01:30 Dan Barker rebuttal (5min) 1:06:52 Hamza Tzortzis rebuttal (5min) 1:10:05 Dan Barker closing statement 1:18:20 Hamza Tzortzis closing statement 1:25:50 Q&A

[@SubboorAhmadAbbasi]

@@nouraouni2819 Jazakallahkhair

[@robinrobyn1714]

Dan Barker calls investing in something divisive is a"waste of time'. I guess he was making an argument against Politics 🤔

[@ismailassenjee5914]

Bring Tzortzis Back

[@MAhmed-zs2vp]

Hear hear

[@peaceful_warrior7627]

Why, where he go? He's just spiritually maturing above debates.

[@thenewapproach1858]

Shukran Brother Subboor this a great...

[@usama.a783]

I pray to ALLAH to give you health for his deen..لا باس طھور ان شاءاللہ

[@erwinsmith5381]

اللهم صل وسلم على سيدنا ومولانا محمد عبدك ورسولك النبي الأمي وعلى آله وصحبه وسلم

[@jalsiddharth]

What's it with a lot of apologists taking philosophy 101 and abusing it to misrepresent science and justify their own ridiculous religious beliefs. Absolute nonsense.

[@umarnaseef5524]

Saying Hamza as someone as just using Philosophy 101 is hilarious misrepresentation and ironic in and of itself.

[@Mirror_Holder]

"If only you could see when they will be detained before the Fire! They will cry, “Oh! If only we could be sent back, we would never deny the signs of our Lord and we would ˹surely˺ be of the believers. But no! ˹They only say this˺ because the truth they used to hide will become all too clear to them. Even if they were to be sent back, they would certainly revert to what they were forbidden. Indeed they are liars! " Quran 6:27-28

[@vasciliostaylor5910]

So the Quran incorrectly characterizes nonbelievers.

[@Mirror_Holder]

@@vasciliostaylor5910 ?

[@vasciliostaylor5910]

@@Mirror_Holder That quote literally states nonbelievers hide the truth of the Lord when they know him to exist.

[@Mirror_Holder]

@@vasciliostaylor5910 I see, the word used to describe the disbeliever is "kafir" which means the one that hide the truth. The word itself can be used for farmers in Arabic language coz they hide seeds under ground. Plus, Satan even though he knows the truth of God, he denied him as such he is a kafir. These are my thoughts on what you said.

[@Mirror_Holder]

@@vasciliostaylor5910 for your information, in Islam, there are unbelievers that could make it to heaven if they have a genuine reason for rejecting Islam and they were seeking the truth, unlike arrogant once whom will never enter heaven.

[@31-mohammedshafeehe47]

JazzakaAllah Kairan

[@Saarimul_masloolUnapologetic]

Causality is one of the most important manifestations of the poverty and inability of everything and the richness of God - it embodies the meaning of God's permanence and richness over everything on the one hand, and on the other hand it embodies the poverty and need of all creatures, and that they are subjugated and subdued, whatever their condition. The meaning of causation is that everything in this existence has characteristics and limits that it is unable to transcend. And the characteristics that he was unable to describe are the characteristics whose causes he did not obtain, so in my case he is declaring his poverty and his need for reasons, whether the reasons for the characteristics that he was characterized by or those that were not. Unlike Al-Qayyim, the Self-Resident, who is free from every cause, whose attributes do not disappear, do not change, and do not change; Because its existence is not based on reasons that lack it, so its existence or its demise depends on the existence of the reason for its existence. And this complete richness is absolute perfection, and it is the difference between me, the Qayyum, and me, and everything else besides Him, and that is why this attribute was a knowledge of God and one of His names. If you think that God alone is the Self￾Sustaining One, it is easy for you to know that everything else besides Him must be needy and needy. This what we have come to know about causation is but a reflection of something: the First That everything in this universe has limits, characteristics, and attributes, if the reasons for its existence ceased to exist, it would cease to exist. The second: Anything in this universe that has lost a cause will not have a result, for everything is incapable of Acquisition of what he does not have the reasons for, and therefore he is unable to exceed his amount. Causality, then, means impotence, deficiency, and poverty, and denotes the One Almighty, the All-Powerful. If we wanted to search for a meaning synonymous with the concept of causation, it would be the ruling law that God imposed on everything, and this is what we call today physical laws.Condiitons unless pre-existing conditions Phenomenon If the conditions are removed, the physical phenomenon vanishes.

[@iswallbanoo9843]

Salaam only one God and it's Allah SWT love here from South Africa Johannesburg pray 5 times a day

[@MrReform]

Very happy to have listened to this debate once again. Thanks for putting it up! Dan is so calm and gentle and is always very lucid and easy to understand. A real example of how to conduct a non-biased argumentation. As he said in another debate: If all religions and denominations appeared like a list of tv channels, atheism wouldn’t be on that list. It would be the off button.

[@ayyylmao101]

Hamza's charisma in this debate was so wonderful, mashallah XD

[@m.-9615]

1:04:13 he (saws) actually did tell us that. There are different ahadith reporting he said this

[@ifizzypop87]

He isn't very well versed in Islam but hopefully he will have gone back and learnt

[@FreePalestine_____]

Atheists are ignorant when it comes to Islam.

[@homtanks7259]

JazakAllahu khairan

[@spacewater5866]

Shakespeare ShaykhZabur.! Kkkkklk😂😀 nice one bro

[@Aliman12pac]

JazakaAllah khairan Can you also upload the debate Br. Hamza had with the professor of philosophy Ken Gemes? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[@aaee2683]

How amazing 👏 an intercultural and a emotional roll coaster.

[@GokuBlack-sn5dr]

old is gold.

[@sainulabidhka5624]

Oh sh*t dan, better luck next time. I mean probability next time buddy 🤣

[@ManjuDevi-ko2np]

In all debate of hamza with an atheist Hamza has only one argument that god was there before Big Bang, I do accept that scientists are still trying to figure out but that doesn't prove there is a god and I think that's the point where atheist back in their position. But if you see other debates atheists have way more arguments and logic than hamza and you will find new content every time.

[@michaelevans4110]

1hr 4mins Why did Dan and Krauss both make the "wash your hands" mistake? Btw We Muslims wash up to the elbows like surgeons do now. Not bad for the 7th century.

[@zaidsafadi1869]

They always use science to cover their true problems with God.

[@dennisellis256]

The atheist can't seem to understand that the words " universe & comos ", are " all man made words", he should ask "WHAT ALLAH", TOLD ADAM (A.S.), IT IS CALLED COLLECTIVELY.

[@abumansaray7]

"Agnostics and Atheists are underrepresented in prisons". False. The inmates were not theists at the time of incarceration. They became religious while in prison as a tool that helped them rehabilitate. As a criminologist, it's very clear that one of the most important protective factors against criminal or deviant behaviour is adherence to religiosity. The question was not about doing good bc of religion. The question was basically "why do you follow laws if it was not bc of fear?". That's literally what laws are-- the state threatening you with violence if you fail to comply. Why does he follow laws that are not based on morality, such as paying taxes or not running a red light on an empty road? Dan Barker would not survive 5 minutes in the Arena. These are terrible arguments.

[@markh1011]

_" The inmates were not theists at the time of incarceration. "_ You're making quite a generalisation there. Can you support it? _" Why does he follow laws that are not based on morality, such as paying taxes or not running a red light on an empty road? "_ By doing so he gets all the benefits of being part of a society. It's in our interest to do so. _"Dan Barker would not survive 5 minutes in the Arena"_ I've only seen a couple of sessions of the Arena and it was several guys not letting an atheist talk, then being rude to him, then not letting him talk. If their position is so solid, why do they need to resort to 5 on 1 and apply tactics like that?

[@nanashi2146]

@@markh1011 Why should we do things that are in our interest? Is it because it fulfils a biological or natural purpose? So why attribute morality to something like that then?

[@markh1011]

@@nanashi2146 _"So why attribute morality to something like that then?"_ I think our morality has a subjective foundation. The foundation is something along the lines of human wellbeing, human flourishing, reducing our suffering etc. I'm giving the short version but I think you'll get it. Also note that I think our morality may be a result of evolution and us being a social species. _"Is it because it fulfils a biological or natural purpose?"_ I don't understand what a biological or natural purpose is, is this context.

[@nanashi2146]

@@markh1011 "I think our morality has a subjective foundation." Is this statement subjective?

[@markh1011]

@@nanashi2146 Are you trying to be funny or was that a serious question?

[@easyandnatural6320]

"Do they not contemplate within themselves? Allah has not created the heavens and the earth and what is between them except in truth and for a specified term. And indeed, many of the people, in [the matter of] the meeting with their Lord, are disbelievers. (Quran 30:8)

[@deepakkapurvirtualclass]

God has free will and He 'always' loves and 'never' does wrong. So, why He does not give the same free will to human beings also. Then, we will also 'always' love and will 'never' do anything wrong. What is the problem in giving such kind of free will to us so that we never commit evil acts and retain our free will also (just like the fact that God has free will but he 'never' does anything wrong)?

[@NoahSJ45]

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) having said: By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them. It was narrated from Anas that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: “Every son of Adam commits sin, and the best of those who commit sin are those who repent.’”

[@shahtalha9325]

Can someone please ask Dan Banker has he heard of Atheist Robots?? Oh im sorry “atheist robots” are those machines who were made by a human for over 20 years, however the robot has developed his own understanding is now insists that he only formed from a vacuum and he had no creator”. Can he please explain what we should do with such robots

[@infinto1]

Multiverse is a rational construct not an empirical fact we may not have any empirical evidence for it ever and it also requires explanation( fine tuning) it begs the question too

[@odeebob7826]

You are very impressive brother Hamza, may Allah increase your knowledge that benefits us

[@ayoubsghiouri6784]

Assalamu Alikum brother Subboor , is this an old or a new debate ?

[@Justice4Palestine]

Looks like a 10 year old debate

[@SahilSahil-ig8ie]

SubhanAllah

[@happinesstolerant]

"Morally bankrupt" says the guy who does not follow a set of unchanging morals. What is acceptable today may be unacceptable tomorrow. When your morals can change like the wind, you have no useful stance to judge others.

[@vasciliostaylor5910]

You say that as if not following one specific text means we have absolutely zero idea about what morality could possibly be.

[@happinesstolerant]

@@vasciliostaylor5910 You cant agree in society on what is moral without religion. You cant have an unchanging stance as agreeing enmasse is how you define morals within current secular society. And thus you have no firm standing to judge another's morality.

[@vasciliostaylor5910]

@@happinesstolerant Ignoring the fact that there are conflicts between Sunni, Shia, Wahhabism, among other sects of Islam about morality... Everybody runs morals through our brains. Even with a common source, people disagree. That's just how the diversity of human brains works.

[@happinesstolerant]

@@vasciliostaylor5910 Still unchanging over a longer span of time. You wont find huge differences in moral and ethics based on what the rich want to become accepted. The foundations are solid even over 1000 years. No huge sway in morality. Now compare it with the alternative.

[@vasciliostaylor5910]

@@happinesstolerant Sorry if this sounds like a strawman, but from what I understand, you just stated that you hate progress? Please correct me and elaborate if I am wrong on that. The way societies progress intellectually, technologically, militaristically, and emotionally is through out-of-the-box thinking. Why do you think this cannot apply to morality? Also, the Quran says pretty messed up stuff when your objective is to increase the observable well-being of sentient beings.

[@bash10101]

Dan clearly has a problem with the BASICS of Islam, all his criticisms of Islam were due to a lack of understanding of the basics of Islam.

[@bangboombaa4372]

whats with the 2010 camera quality ?

[@traditionalsunni629]

Its 12 years old

[@PoeticSonic]

because it's like literally made in 2010, the debate is pretty old, it's a classic lol good day bro

[@dannyyo7948]

Good eye BaaBangBoom

[@Someone-ct2ck]

Subboor, it would be very very nice if you cut out the rebuttals and post it again. your channel or somewhere else.

[@zmanclan5795]

brothers & sisters please cut the best dismantling arguments parts and make shorts

[@nielshoogendoorn9173]

Once you have seen some of those discussions you will see tjat the first (initial) speaker will make in high speed a increadely amount of claims and then chalenges the other speaker to refuse those claims..and then when the opponent comes with a point get ridicluates by not understanding islam etc. ... it.s pathetis!

[@Carl007Jr]

*Textbook* bitter assumptions on every account and claim Dan made. For example, the Nobel prize bit, assuming it isn't politicized. Does he go through and validate every single claim he makes? In terms of contradictions, he doesn't give a reference, one of the reasons being that it doesn't exist when you actually read it. Also, the belief in specifically one God is a more rational position than disbelief in God at all, or a belief in many Gods. Without religion, morality and "goodness" disappears. Human life and death becomes just a transfer of material or matter when left to atheist and secular ideologies, hence Mao, Pal Pot, Stalin, etc., Dan's very dishonest and full of angst.

[@srnp0007]

Without religion, morality and "goodness" disappears......." Not True .

[@nanashi2146]

@@srnp0007 It may have the illusion of still being there, but whatever is still there is entirely relative

[@srnp0007]

@@nanashi2146 :- It may have the illusion of still being......" I Don't Get Your Point . Please Say it Again.

[@nanashi2146]

@@srnp0007 If morality is still there without religion, whatever is left has to be relative

[@ayyylmao101]

@@nanashi2146 ^ If not God, you base your morality on desires, personal experiences, social norms, or any number of subjective things... so you have no way to contend that your morals are any more "moral" than anyone else's, except with opinion. You have no true good or bad, only what _you,_ personally, think is good or bad. Therefore, your morality is not grounded in anything objective - it is relative. So while you may uphold a notion of goodness and morality, it is a false notion in a secular worldview, given that you cannot prove either to be universally real. Morality, in this perspective, becomes an illusion.

[@albm706]

Dear brother, salam to you. May Allah grant you blessings and rewards for your effort. I have some points and questions which I am looking for some answers. It is about Allah's laws that you mention. Dear brother, the hadith claims to record the minutest and smallest details about the Rasul's life, even the way he ate, slept, walked, talked, preached etc. However 570 of the Rasul's Friday khutbah are missing. Since the hijra from Mecca to Medinah around 621AD till his death in 632 AD there were over 570 Fridays. Other than TWO DIFFERENT versions of his first Friday khutbah delivered at Masjid Jumaa and the last khutbah sermon (which maybe was not on a Friday) there is no complete record of the remaining 570 khutbah of the Rasul which should have been heard by tens of thousands of people (mutawat-tir). My humble question is where are those more than 570 Friday khutbah? Why arent they recorded anywhere? Referring Allah's Laws, can you please explain the "disconnection" between the Quran and Islamic Law? There is absolutely no connection between the Quran and the Islamic Law. To begin with lets take a simple 10 items which are part of islam but are not found in the Quran at all : 1. the 5 daily prayers 2. allahu akbar 3. the shahada 4. the adhan (call to prayer) 5. the pilgrimage to Mecca 6. the fast in the fasting month (Ramadhan means heat, drought) 7. stoning adulterers to death 8. killing apostates and the entire sharia laws 9. your beard, your skull cap and long robe 10. the Muslim sisters' headcover or hijab. All these are not in the Quran. The details of pilgrimage eg are certainly not in the Quran. For example what or where exactly is Mashaa'iril Haram which is mentioned in the Quran? The Quran says that after divorcing women you SHOULD NOT TELL THEM TO LEAVE YOUR HOUSE. YOUR DIVORCED WIFE CAN CONTINUE STAYING IN YOUR HOUSE FOR AS LONG AS SHE LIKES. This is completely contradictory to the hadith and the sharia laws which says the divorced woman must leave the house. All the sharia laws are very different from the Quran. Dear brother this is a point of accuracy. There is no stoning th adulterer and no killing the apostate in the Quran. However the Sharia laws are found (or are very close to) the Bible literature (Hebrew and Greek). For example the Muslim sister's headcover is from the Book of Corinthians (look at Mother Theresa), your skull cap is the Jewish kippah, your beard and robe are Old Testament, stoning adulterers, killing apostates are in the Old Testament of the Bible. Allahuakbar (god is great) is in the Book of Psalms. Circumcision of the boys is from the Book of Genesis. It looks like Islam has imported all these biblical teachings through the hadith, fiqh, ijma etc. Dear brother my point is ALL this and more are not in the Quran. Even the Assalamualaykum is not in the Quran. In the Quran, it quotes Abraham saying Salamun. Not assalamu alaykum. In Sura 6:54 the Quran says 'Say Salamun Alaykum'. Assalamu alaykum as you clearly know is Jewish. And wa alaykum shalom is definitely Jewish. I repeat : the point is there is a disconnect between the Quran and the Islam Law that you practise. There is absolutely no connection. Dear brother, there is a hadith which says : Ibn Umar reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Whoever imitates a people is one of them.” Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 4031, Sahih. So if we copy or follow the Biblical teachings so much that actually makes us christians and jews. In the Quran, the Rasul taught us: Sura 2:120 Neither the Jews, nor the Christians, will accept you, unless you follow their religion. Say, "Allah's guidance is the true guidance." If you acquiesce to their wishes, despite the knowledge you have received, you will find no ally or supporter to help you against Allah. Sura 3:100 "O you who believe, if you obey some of those who received the scripture, they will revert you, after having believed, into disbelievers." If you follow the people of the book, you will become a disbeliever. This is what the Rasul taught us in the Quran. My final question again : What is the connection between the Quran and Sharia Law ? There seems to be none. But there is a lot of connection between Sharia Law and the Jewish Bible (the Old Testament). Thank you and Salamun Alaykum.

[@D_A-G]

Brilliant تبارك الله

[@نفحات-ل5ذ]

Masalah good good way of using ligic and sience

[@muhammad7205]

Brother hamza looked jacked here. Was hitting the gym back them SubhanAllah

[@benoysarkar8368]

Dan is done, period! LOL

[@cheicknacamara651]

It had to be Christianity that took him his faith because it’s illogical

[@mianatwood]

Lmao I have listened ti atheists so many times that I knew exactly what this dude was gonna say😂😂😂🤦‍♂️ I just skipped the atheists speech every time he spoke 😂🤦‍♂️

[@adamyoutube281]

Their arguments make me cringe. I heard them many times they are fallacious.

[@furiousinsects6386]

@@adamyoutube281 there’s no God

[@DarkCrusade]

@@furiousinsects6386 but Allah and Muhammad ﷺ is his final messenger

[@furiousinsects6386]

@@DarkCrusade there is no Allah, there is no Muhamed. Those are just stories, folklore, mythology.

[@DarkCrusade]

@@furiousinsects6386 Muhammad ﷺ existed for a fact to deny this is is a conspiracy. And Allah also exists for a fact. The only myth here is your belief I am afraid, that nothingness can create something

[@osama_aboswelem]

سبحان الله وبحمده سبحان الله العظيم

[@zubairmithani26]

Isn't it old?

[@cryptaxer]

about 10 years old

[@Abdulaziz_M54]

It seems old. Hamza looks younger 😅

[@amiaquehaque]

Ha! ha! ha! The most embarrasing and hummiliating debate and moment for Dan Barker.

[@mega4171]

Dan Barker >

[@rafio.subzero]

Nobody: Hamza: ALso

[@cavaliercal594]

Dan Barker is making very basic naif arguments such as if Zeus or other ancient gods where miths and did not exist because now science can explain the fenomenon of thunder then all gods are ferytale and the most rational status is atheism. Boy wake up this argument is old and of a low intellectual level. You are not of Hamza's level please bring next atheist.

[@princeequalizer3715]

Is this old?

[@erwinsmith5381]

1:36:44

[@alberxenos]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

[@matzmr]

what year this was taken?

[@sbgf4674]

Unfortunately, I think Hamza has wasted his time on this guy. He presented feeble arguments and had no understanding of the depth of the arguments presented to him.

[@Islamiccalling]

Dan was waffling by the end lol. Easy win for brother Hamza

[@cheicknacamara651]

Dan said he reads the Quran and he has 2 translations of it ha ha ha . And yet you don’t know it’s not written there the infinitely merciful. Or the infinitely loving . Because Allah does say he doesn’t love injustice and the deniers won’t be having any mercy

[@saifdevdas7656]

T IS NOT ABOUT PHILOSOPHY OR RATIONALITY OR BELIEF___IT IS ALL ABOUT HONESTY. Like Allah, Hamza, Zakir Naik, Shabbir Ally, and Ghamadi__you are also a deceiver and hiders of truth from the ignorant Muslim masses. PUT YOUR HAND ON THE HOLY QURAN AND Answer this: Does Quran say that you can beat your wife under special circumstances? Does the Quran not say that 'TREAT THE SLAVES RIGHT'? DIDN'T MOHAMMAD MARRY A 6-YEAR-OLD GIRL? DIDN'T MOHAMMAD MARRY HIS SON'S WIFE? DIDN'T MOHAMMAD OWN HUNDREDS OF SLAVES? DIDN'T HIS 'RIGHTLY GUIDED CALIPHS' OWN SLAVES? I CAN GIVE HUNDREDS OF EXAMPLES BUT LET ME STOP HERE___I AWAIT YOUR ANSWERS

[@abdulelahkhunji6871]

Why you don't measure your Mind .. ✍️