Is it fair Rishi Sunak pays just 23% tax? No. It isn’t.

[@stevekilligrew788]

Wealth inequality is the single biggest issue across the globe & it is getting worse. Tax is the price you pay to live in a civilised society. Most people’s income is flat-lining & has been for over a decade. The rich hate tax, even discussing it rationally.

[@gerryparker7699]

Hence the reason why they buy media corporations like X to trot out their half lies and distorted truth.

[@samkayak8712]

Excess wealth builds up because the income tax and commercial tax system is not fit for purpose. We should be looking at a 'turnover tax' for some industries - because accountants are too good at hiding profits.

[@MusXM]

We must look at our current tax system and start closing loopholes that the super rich can’t jump out of, otherwise introducing new tax will not hit those who should be paying. The book ‘Taxtopia’ highlights this well, showcasing tricks such as setting up ‘companies’ in Tax Havens to purchase assets and cycle wealth to avoid tax, or the use of Trust Funds to avoid inheritance tax, - and just how many celebrities and politicians are involved in this type of Tax Avoidance is also a disturbing problem.

[@SlayerEddyTV]

Even the wealthy people think they need to be taxed more. See Patriotic Millionaires UK, they want to contribute more because they can see the mess that this country is in.

[@samhodgins9804]

The country is in a mess because it's voted Labour

[@SlayerEddyTV]

@@samhodgins9804 Going by your comment it looks like you are confused as to how this works...It isn't the opposition that implements policies, that would be the Tories that were in power for 14 years.

[@samhodgins9804]

@@SlayerEddyTV well Labour also voted for lockdowns knowing full well it would collapse the economy and give them an election platform and Reeves budget has put the UK into a recession which will turn into a depression by July 2025 but keep believing that Labour 'care' for you

[@andrewclimo5709]

The concept we've been sold is that top pay is a reflection of how top earners are bringing about wide spread prosperity, from which we're also benefitting. But it's not working like that. Instead their reward is reflected in higher prices and stagnant wages. In other words high earners are no longer contributors (if they ever were) to parasites.

[@ianbaker8243]

If Rishi is worth 500 million. He would make 5% thats 25 million in the year. Did he pay 5 million tax??? No... We are being conned.

[@Bean-js9bc]

I'm no Rishi fan, but he paid his tax correctly as PM per his tax returns. It's his wife that is worth £500m, not him. It just sucks that CGT is so low, when it's earned passively through investments.

[@markcoomber8222]

@@Bean-js9bc. No, the earnings/income from investments IS already taxed as income tax at normal income tax rates. The increase in capital values is the investors’ reward for placing their capital (often from taxed income) at risk to support growth in businesses (that employ people and so generate income tax, corporation tax, VAT and National Insurance receipts for HM Treasury). Why should this support investors provide to society’s business’s be taxed at income tax rates for a second time ? It’s about time that commentators learned a lot more about commerce and economics before talking about it as if they are an expert. Just look at Rachel Reeves; she has shown that she knows FA and was never an “economist”.

[@markcoomber8222]

Well, he’s not worth £500m. No way near. His wife is wealthy due to her commercial interest in her father’s business in India….where it’s already taxed under that country’s tax regime. Get your facts straight before commenting.

[@tarquin161234]

"None of the main parties want to talk about it." False. The Green Party proposed 2% wealth tax. It was the main reason I voted for them.

[@SimonLeeds]

But if they can’t promote themselves then what’s the point of others voting for them if we know they’ll lose?

[@lucienwilliams4359]

There is a lot of rich people's bots on here

[@Patrick-q2z]

Isn’t it sad that so many MPs who could if they worked together bring so much good to the population but they chose to benefit the few.

[@bascol123]

It may be legal but its absolutely disgusting. Makes me want to throw up. Labour newds to hit the rich much harder instead of focussing on pensioners and the poorest in our society.

[@samhodgins9804]

They have hit the rich and the rich have gone. Everyone pays excessively for socialism and becomes poorer but the average Labour voters will never grasp this

[@lukeosullivan7033]

​@@samhodgins9804our country is in the shitter. Everyone has to pay for that. The problem labour will have is the they are ignoring the biggest problem the country has, Brexit.

[@gerryparker7699]

@@samhodgins9804 We are all paying excessively because our economy doesn't work for most working people. Middle income workers are being taxed to hell. 40% verses the rich and wealthy at 28% max capital gains tax on millions, so please do not distract from the leaches sucking the taxation coffers dry. It's the rich who are avoiding it!

[@uk145]

Sunak pays less than 1% tax. Anyone with half a brain knows that someone worth £750m-£1bn will make £50-100m in passive income on top of working income. How much income tax did he pay on his £100m passive income this year? £400k...as he only declared £2m in the UK. Less than 1%. Tax that true income properly, there is no need to go after his £1bn wealth. Can we just stop pretending that his UK tax returns have any bearing to his reality.

[@georgesotiriou7051]

That's what the wife (possibly) makes son. He does not own his wife. Sunak pays exactly what the tax system demands of him. Sunak was actually losing money by serving as a PM. He could be living in Monaco tax free and make even more by managing his private affairs. Sunak lost money by being into politics.

[@assses-3216]

@@georgesotiriou7051 Pretty sure he set up an opaque unlimited company with his wife to make those tax affairs harder to see recently.

[@witlesswonderthe2nd883]

Sunak put a lot of very profitable contracts into his families hands as pm so lost nothing.

[@uk145]

@georgesotiriou7051 Sunak was a tax resident in the US while serving as Chancellor claiming to HMRC that he was only living in the UK temporarily despite living here permanently, having children in school here and working in the Cabinet. At the same time his wife was domiciled in India for tax purposes so neither was tax resident in the UK. His tax affairs are a complete disgrace and hopefully the most abhorrent we will ever see in UK government. He lost £3-400k by being PM in the sense that he felt the need to create a tax bill to publish before the election where as he could have only declared £500k as that is probably sufficient for him to live on. Please remember that Ultra High Net Worths do this all the time and it's a great way to benefit from the infrastructure, police, legal and labour services of the UK without paying a penny and using another location for paying tax but not actually living in (just signing something to say you live there).

[@georgesotiriou7051]

@@uk145 You have no idea what you are talking about. Sunak was and is tax resident in the UK. He also had a green card. His wife was non dom (who can blame her when she is using the law exactly as intended) until 2022. My guess is before switching to being domiciled in the UK she placed her Infosys shares into an excluded property trust so she pays no dividend tax in the UK. Furthermore due to a loophole in the 1956 tax treaty between India and the UK she is not due to any inheritance tax for her non UK assets. You are out of your depth here.

[@grahamallcott1993]

Liam, it's so refreshing to hear a Labour politician with the guts to talk about this. I'm voting Green til Labour get their act together on this, but honestly, the billionaires are in for a shock the next few years, because people have just had enough of this now. Pensioners having winter fuel payments cut, kids in poverty, small businesses like mine being absolutely squeezed for tax... There is a better way. Why won't Reeves seize this opportunity?

[@Paul-li9hq]

The entire system has been created and is maintained by the wealthy... so don't expect any real changes while they maintain that power and control.

[@uk145]

@Paul-li9hq It was created by old money to maintain status quo. Sunak and co ripped the eyes out of it to use the tax payer as a cash cow. They took the money and left local authorities bust, water companies bust, energy companies bust, rail network bust, prison system broken, immigration out of control, courts unable to sentence, 40% prison terms, the largest ever housing deficit, rampant inflation and cost of living crisis, etc, etc.

[@mykota2417]

Rishi has never paid 23% tax in his life.

[@TNT-1313]

This shouldn’t be a debate but compel them to pay as same tax as every ordinary citizens…unfortunately political crooked oligarchs govern the poor…

[@robertallen591]

if you think he pays anything like 23 your thick, hes not PAYE and his tax billis are voluntary in truth

[@MickFrost-w5i]

What happened to the days of falling inequality. Now it's rising inequality and more and more concentrations of huge benefits going to those at the top.

[@fintamaria2429]

Workers are poor because we will never be able to feed the rich.

[@CurtisRouse-]

I’m so happy this inequality is actually being spoken about, but it needs to be spoken about more and changed If you look at a compound interest chart, you eventually hit exponential growth and there’s no stopping it then That exponential growth applies to wealth generation and the more time goes on, the worse it’s going to get for normal citizens if it isn’t addressed

[@1425363878]

The problem isn't the taxing. It's the spending. They would just blow it on even more migrants no one needs, and the money would end up in the pockets of the same people as now, just at an even faster rate.

[@CEO786]

The migrants have saved this country and no doubt there will be more coming in considering the displacement you’ve caused in the Middle East. ❤

[@davidstrudwick6879]

This country depends on migrants. I don’t see English people queuing up to do all the low paid jobs in the care and health sector. UK food production relies on temporary low paid employees as well as.

[@assses-3216]

You realise the people you refer to spend that money in their local economy and are charged VAT on the transactions like the rest of us right? It's hardly a waste of money if it's preventing destitution and helping local businesses

[@1425363878]

@@assses-3216 No. Just no. The numbers are in, stop coming at me with this neo-Keynesian voodoo.

[@1425363878]

@@davidstrudwick6879 Don't you realise that's part of the problem, though? Migrants are pushing down wages. That's WHY the elites want them. Without the migrants, other solutions would have to be found, including raising real wages for the first time in bloody decades. Why do you think real wages have been stagnant or even shrinking since the 90s? Huh? Migration!

[@davidmccabe4041]

Liam byrne must have Irish roots and if so he probably has some understanding of what we have achieved in Ireland since 1960 when i was a student chartered accountant. In summary use corporation tax policies to encourage business iinvestment and not merely see them as revenue raising exercises. David McCabe dublin

[@richardc3194]

Is it fair that Kier Starmer has a law just for only one person (himself) that gives him a tax free pension?

[@KhunRoger]

WHAT ? ? ?​ 😡

[@joshua6244]

@@KhunRoger The Pensions Increase (Pension Scheme for Keir Starmer QC) Regulations 2013.

[@matthewoakley3772]

Income is not taxed at 45% you need to add NI, pension tax, vat, tax on petrol etc. the problem is income is taxed so highly it’s almost impossible to become rich without inherited wealth

[@sergiylesyk246]

In fact the high income taxes make sure that there are no "new rich", income taxes are a fence to protect the rich status.

[@markrozee]

I am going to inherit a lot. I don't mind paying inheritance tax, and I won't be getting accountants to reduce my kids inheritance tax bill either. Stop being SO greedy 🙄

[@leeg131313]

mug

[@gerryparker7699]

Bully for you. Trouble is there are plenty of super wealthy who will not do that. So stop being so naïve. There are numerous methods of tax avoidance. As for greedy it's easy to say that when you are going to be given your wealth rather than earn it like most of the rest of the population.

[@davidp4456]

The problem is not solved by taxing wealth. The problem is caused by the myriad of tax deductible allowances and mechanisms to escape tax that is offered not only to the super rich, but the self employed and small business owners. In addition to being used legitimately they are frequently cheated allowing all moderate and high earners who have access to these tax facilities to enrich themselves at the tax payers expense. Regular tax payers are subsidising these people and it should be identified for the national scandal that it is. Making people rich through tax is the principle reason why our country is in debt and has such poor public services.

[@TheFlyingAudiophile]

Too easy for the self employed to hide income though... I agree with you, but surely easier to tax assets because they can't hide the £3m country pile, the £10m townhouse and the £2m of vintage Aston's in their garages... Surely easier to clobber them on those?

[@davidp4456]

@@TheFlyingAudiophile I kind of agree, but in many cases they’ll be coming after people who have acquired wealth legitimately and been straight with their taxes. Just because they have wealth doesn’t mean it should be taken away otherwise you, me and everyone else lower down the pecking order are also targets. There are also many more self employed and small business owners who cheat the system. The system is so lax that almost all of them are doing it to a greater or lesser extent and pay far less than those on PAYE. Correct this inequity and you’ve gone a long way towards fixing the problem.

[@ashleyspencer3664]

Here’s one, taxes on collateralised loans, musk can use his Tesla shares to buy twitter which have been subject to no tax. If it’s materialised as an asset then it should be taxed as such, even if it’s a smaller charge where gains are leveraged but not sold.

[@gibbions]

It’s all about thresholds - ie don’t set the threshold at levels most people benefit from the passing on of a property. People graft for decades to own a house - don’t want to be taxed a second time!

[@fintamaria2429]

This is what modern slavery and the poverty of workers looks like...Masters of resources make billions in profits!!

[@fulloftruthguardian5420]

He doesn't talk about Gen X. We've already been screwed and forgotten it seems.

[@californiadreamin8423]

You’re barely out of nappies, and you have the rest of your life ahead of you to do something about it.

[@tirednsleepy44]

Problem is that plenty of the public have spoke about it, the media has seldom spoke about it unless they’ve had an ulterior motive. I don’t even recognise “journalism” nowadays, never mind any media integrity.

[@gazsm1]

I've had this argument with a few people who think money gained from investment(capital gains) should be taxed at a lower rate because, according to them, it isn't earnings and the money used as investment has already been taxed. Yet pensions are funded through investment, exactly the same as capital gains, and yet they are taxed at standard rate and classed as an income. I don't think the wealthy should be forced to pay more tax just because they are wealthy, but I do think they should pay the tax on all their assets in exactly the same way as less fortunate people. Just pay their fair share... no special privileges just because they are wealthy!

[@babydragoncreature]

The issue for a lot of people who would end up paying higher taxes is where that tax money goes. People aren't usually inherently ideologically opposed to higher taxes. They just don't want it to stagnate the economy - which higher child benefits would do.

[@nazb1982]

@@babydragoncreatureyes there should be a communication each year of what proportion of taxes paid were spent in which areas. There should also be a breakdown for the NHS on say what was spent on buildings, frontline staff, backend staff etc

[@babydragoncreature]

@nazb1982 We need referendums on key issues. Foreign aid. Child benefits. Higher taxes. Most left-wing people think budget constraints = austerity. You could even scrap foreign aid in a social democracy if the people want that. Just political desire.

[@nazb1982]

@@babydragoncreature referendums don’t work as great as you may think unless the questions are properly thought through and there are strict rules around honesty and harsh consequences for breaches. I would even go so far as requiring a basic knowledge quiz before allowing someone to take part in a referendum to check they know what they are voting for

[@nazb1982]

@@babydragoncreature referendums can easily be manipulated. I had wrote a full response but KZbin filter

[@jonboymk1bridgemaryfront889]

this idea makes sense, I hope it get put in place for my children. if not? then the wealthy WILL own everything vary soon.✌️

[@davidalderson7761]

I don’t pay much tax to Be honest, I have a ISA I am happy to say pays me enough as well as my pension too. However it’s time for a wealth tax instead of hitting on work tax. But politicians of all coulours get captured by the treasury of Oxbridge educated OVER OVER OVER CONFIDENT people with fancy accents unable to think beyond MONEY, the country will be FARAGE IST unless things change for the people in the bottom 90 ( ninety ) percent. We fear a wealth tax because we all want to be rich but I doubt any of of us normal people know a single person for coffee or a pint that owns 5million to 500million to billions and they avoid all the tax the rest of us pay for the whole thing. The IFS seem stuck records talking about income tax and we all suck they up as the wealth yet income is only one tax and wealth tax is a taboo subject WHY? politicians sponsors are Wealthy aren’t they so maybe the free glasses free holidays free wallpaper comes their sponsors so they are kept sweet.

[@andrewh3414]

People who are rich, have money to invest which means their wealth is accelerated. This is something to aspire to. In this society there are more people on benefits and claiming off the state than number of rich people. Rich people are basically paying for all that. Rich people contribute a lot to society already. You cannot just look at percentages. Rich already subsidise a lot of what we have. Just look at the facts.

[@roni7172]

Only rich people are paying for people on benefits?

[@assses-3216]

The entire taxation system is based on people subsidising what we all have. Yeah some wealthy people do contribute highly to the economy, others do not. I can see even above median income earners pay a lot more into the system than they take out. It's not rocket science, it's basic economics. However, historically we have had an issue when wealth disparities have gotten to this level. Much of the post-war politics used the state as an equalising force to try to address that imbalance. We also saw economies which fell into mass disparity, tended toward populism. We can't say because someone contributes a lot (or should do), that they are immune from any amendments to the taxation system. It's very easy to hide assets or place them within tax immune vehicles. We also see many companies extracting UK wealth, providing less than adequate services and moving that money outside of the UK.

[@simonm9097]

Raise the personal allowance...abolish high rate tax brackets that put people off from earning more "why earn more than 50k when you're paying 40% tax" flat rate tax bracket for everyone...why punish someone for working harder to better themselves

[@assses-3216]

@@simonm9097 But those people aren't paying 40% tax on all income, only the higher amount. Flat rate taxation wouldn't be a useful methodology for raising revenue. The flat tax would have to rise to meet the demand of the treasury. Suggesting a multi-millionaire and a person in supported living pay the same, ignores that redistribution of taxes can be helpful (ie free school meals). No one is being punished for 'working harder', but as their income increases so does their ability to buy better access to healthcare and more material things. The flat rate tax would increase inflation, mean less houses were available for those who actually want to buy their own and intrench inequality.

[@peterrauth118]

The tax system has now got absurdly complicated - throw in double taxation agreements, and its truly mind boggling. The system needs reforming and simplifying. Complex systems work well for experts in any field, as they can navigate their way around them, which is why tax lawyers and accountants do rather well. Interest expense is one of the primary tools of tax avoidance. Eliminate that as a deductible expense - with some caveats, would be a good start.

[@Faust-NOW]

Another nail in the coffin to attract entrepreneurs and investors. Why on earth would anyone want to come to Britain and create a business when they get taxed to death and are told they are greedy to boot?! How many people are now leaving Britain because of the tax rates are not competitive?

[@vulgartrendkill]

its not taxing to death though is it? its equalizing the % of tax take. if I earn £60k a year gross from a job (i wish), I pay far less if I earned that money from Cap gains. The issue is that people who make the tax rules design them with the asset rich in mind, and not fairness across the spectrum. loopholes are built into the system as a feature.

[@simonm9097]

​@@vulgartrendkillif your drawing money from capital gains then you have probably had to work hard save up and take a lot of risks to buy the asset...what risk and capital have you took / invested just turning up to work drawing a wage?

[@AJRo-l2d]

@simonm9097 I’m sure the Duke of Westminster toils every day to maintain the £10bn of assets he inherited from his father who inherited from his father etc. Rishi’s wife also must have also sacrificed a lot to inherit a share of her dad’s tech company.

[@Faust-NOW]

Well you can take the Duke’s £10bn and that will reduce this year’s deficit from £126bn to £116bn… not only does it *not* make an impact on the deficit, once you’ve taken it and spent it then it is gone, and there’s knock-on effects like reduced inbound investment in the UK and wealthier people leaving for better places to live. But sure, knock yourself out trying to fill that hole by confiscating someone else’s assets. That is the worst combination of greed and envy.

[@AJRo-l2d]

@@Faust-NOW I can’t remember calling for the Duke of Westminster to have his assets confiscated I thought the thread was about taxing wealth. I thought people are leaving the country for a better life because the government has been responsible for the complete mismanagement of the country, not because taxation was high.

[@JamesBrown-f3t]

Guessing he’s talking about capital gains. If I had earned £100k and paid taxes on them earnings and decide to invest them to grow my capital I think 23% tax is fair. As id be taking all the risk involved. Where as income tax is different as there’s no risk and full benefits

[@shig4238]

The real pisser is taking away the capital gains allowance - that’s completely screwed aspirational working people

[@californiadreamin8423]

You’re guessing ? I guess you haven’t earned £100,000 yet.

[@assses-3216]

@@shig4238 Not necessarily, many working people use investment ISAs as a means of building their wealth.

[@freepoet6737]

This interview really didn't get started

[@garybird8646]

Over a decade ago economics professor Steve Keen was discussing asset inflation as an issue on the back of Q.E. this is where the disparity began in my opinion. Austerity was a disaster but we were obliged under the Lisbon treaty to limit borrowing as a % of GDP. To get the economy going I'd lend directly to the Government (we can do this now we are out of the EU) and invest in carbon reduction and infrastructure projects in green transport. Bicycle and pedestrian paths everywhere and affordable public transport in rural areas, new build Towns are incredibly car centric in design. Plus the UK has a problem with obesity, this costs the NHS billions. We need to make Britain an attractive place to live and work for a global workforce, to accelerate this we need to be a disruptor to attract inward investment.

[@Derek-Trotter]

What is QE but lending to the government at any cost

[@garybird8646]

@Derek-Trotter expand further please, interested in your opinion.

[@Derek-Trotter]

@@garybird8646, QE is the BoE buying gilts at any cost. In fact, they buy so much debt that the price of gilts is very close to 0% and that's how you lower interest rates to zero. The BoE buy the gilts and the government gets the money in unlimited quantities, i.e whatever gilts are raised they are brought with no regard to cost, unlike normal times.

[@Derek-Trotter]

@@garybird8646 there is no limit to debt to GDP, if there were you wouldn't have Italy or Greece? the UK is ticking over 100% debt to GDP right now

[@garybird8646]

@@Derek-Trotter I thought the BOE created gilts for investors like pension funds, not for investment by themselves. Of the 870 billion created over 700 billion is still in circulation. The most incredible thing I find is the treasury (tax payers) paying interest on high St Bank deposits at the BOE, this money was gifted to them via QE. It's billions and billions with the higher interest rates of today.

[@simonkramer9463]

Yeah and how much does that equate to? Does he do it through a ltd company? If so, how many people does that employ and how much tax do they pay? This is just a lazy, one dimensional appraisal designed to stoke devision.

[@neilsmith154]

No one is proposing equalization of income tax and capital gains. Over 80% of capital gains are exempt as it is in the form of primary residence and pensions.

[@babydragoncreature]

@@neilsmith154 Aren't the libdems?

[@matthewleitch1]

How would you distinguish between the merely lucky and the productive?

[@bigjonS4]

Depends how you define luck. In my opinion luck is rare, by definition, thus not something one should factor in to a regulatory system.

[@matthewleitch1]

@@bigjonS4 Probably your definition of 'luck' is quite narrow. As a thought experiment to illustrate some issues. Suppose we start with 128 low level managers in a very large organization. They make decisions and let's imagine that they are all clueless fools who guess but still have a 50% chance of making a good decision. After the first decision, 64 of the managers have been successful and 64 not. Now let's focus on the 64 winners so far. They make another random strategy choice and 32 of them win a second time. After four more rounds of this we have two managers with stellar careers full of seemingly brilliant decisions. Of course the real numbers are different in reality and intelligent choices also contribute to a manager's track record, but we can see that at least in some jobs sheer dumb luck could in theory be important. I suspect that this MP is using the word luck because he does not accept that people are sometimes paid more because they are more productive and make a more valuable contribution. He doesn't plan to identify the lucky people; he's just going to tax them all.

[@gerryparker7699]

@@matthewleitch1 So how could you effectively tax the wealth of those milking the tax avoidance systems for 20 years plus? Or is it all about letting them get away with it?

[@matthewleitch1]

@@gerryparker7699 The tax changes I would support are not discussed in the above video. However, since you have asked, they are (1) taxes on wasteful, luxury consumption and (2) on pollution. I would like taxes to gradually be reduced on other activities and increased on these so that the total tax take is not increased or decreased as a result. There are several ways to target these taxes so that the are not 'regressive', which is the main concern many people have concerning consumption taxes. Taxes are better when the incentivize good, prosocial behaviour or discourage bad behaviour. Just raising a tax whenever someone has some money tends to lead to taxes that discourage people from doing things that would be good for society. What about Rishi Sunak? Well, if he just lived a very ordinary life with just the consumption he needs for a reasonable life, like the rest of us, then he would pay little or no tax. But then, he would not be taking more than his share of resources. In reality, if he wants to have a swimming pool, a big house, lots of holidays in different countries, three cars, staff, dogs, horses, endless entertaining, and waste a lot of food then he would pay a lot of tax.

[@Zara-jl5zw]

Nothing to do with a uni party .say where a member a very rich mp gets another house on the taxpayers and bills payed always exceptions

[@davidmcculloch8490]

Absolutely factual. Inequality further stifles growth and redistribution and reinvestment would enhance productivity. We have an oligarchy created through failed neoliberalism. Tax wealth and invest in the infrastructure.

[@ChrisHarrison-n9f]

Liam Byrne makes sense- the super rich are milking it & a wealth tax is way overdue.

[@robertallen591]

no one on self assesmant pays 23% unlike PAYE you can claim for everything or put assets in trusts and ltd companies you can then lay one debt against another profit,, in the end you pay what you want to, its charity,

[@lukeskirenko]

Why not do something about the system which blows up asset prices. The way that banks lend is basically a leverage system built around collateral, the collateral being houses. The banks issue as much debt as they can, creating as much debt around housing as they can, and so the population fights over who wins and loses in this debt pyramid. That's what buy-to-let was and still is about. The issuing of the debt creates new money, which gives the illustion of wealth in the form of new spending power, but it's really inflation. The inflation is generated around real estate... curious that as this took hold the government started using CPI as the main inflation metric. Inflation is low, we're told, but low and behold, twenty years too late people are now realising that hte younger generation are ruined. Why is everything so expensive? Well, those debts generated around housing still exist, continue to extract wealth from the bottom tier of society. So the whole economy is built around debt, the average person's disposable income is suppressed since so much goes towards servicing those systemic debts, and the lack of spending power means a stagnating economy. But to have the political will to tackle this would involve reigning in the power of the banks, and since banking (much of it dodgy) is the main industry in the country politicians will always be subservient to the banking sector.

[@rbir2653]

If rishi put his money into an ISAs he would pay no tax or national insurance. Beats working. You make the tax laws and people will just get around them.

[@vincentfernandez7135]

40% would be fair.

[@SirKeefyKeef]

Did his book sell? How much did he make?

[@icklejack01]

Scotland's oil Liam... that Westminster never passed on to... um, let me think.... oh yes, Scotland!

[@JimboLB]

Its within the law.

[@icklejack01]

Not the point.

[@cianog]

Why should anyone pay 23% tax?

[@irisaviation852]

Why should I pay about 60% tax…

[@cianog]

@ You shouldn’t. 10% should be the max anyone pays.

[@gerryparker7699]

Without services or the prospect of reasonable health, education opportunities and hope for a better life, the plebs will get sick of being told what to do by the wealthy and take their wealth away from them by whatever means they have. Soooooooo it's important if you want a stable society rather than revolution. Hope that's simple enough for you?

[@seanmcdonald5859]

Because that's the law of the land. You pay the taxes that the law requires:it's a simple concept.

[@cianog]

@@seanmcdonald5859 Bad laws bad outcomes

[@jeffworthington9286]

I agree, but they have only been in power 5 months.

[@tomhermens7698]

You levy wealth tax, the wealth will go offshore.

[@timothydenyer7749]

as starmer wud say, and does, "i follow the rules"......and those that have set are to keep the uk an attractive place for those with money want to reside and invest....increase the rates a d they will move on......despite wat some "expert" analysts say.....

[@garyb455]

The Welfare State has created millions who have no ambition or ability and mostly dont work, why should they have a share of anyone's wealth ?Its nothing to do with tax we are spending far too much, it needs cutting at least 30%

[@assses-3216]

Many people claiming benefits have also contributed to building other's astronomical wealth. When you look at the factors contributing to claims outside of severely economically deprived areas. Firstly lets strip out the state pension which is about 1/3 -1/2 of total social protection spending. You look at the rest and it's split between working age benefits, disability and sickness benefits, housing and other (which includes refugees entitlements). The increase has largely been in those who are disabled or two sick to work. Your narrative is too simplistic to really apply to everyone. What we're seeing is the NHS is unable to meet demands for patient diagnosis and treatment, leading to these people being held back by structural issues, rather than personal laziness. I will also point out, the equality act is only enforceable through the courts, which a person must self-fund thanks to legal aid cuts. So even those with disabilities facing discrimination cannot get compensated for their troubles. It also makes people less willing to work for abusive companies.

[@MetalMew2]

I wish I could help, unfortunately until Corbyn leads as Independent or Labour again P/R and well due raises in Taxes on Wealth for Individuals with Assets or income over 800000.00k. The average salary for lowest - middle class is changed to below inflation when it's measured properly and compared with the same way that those opportunities are mostly only for Privately educated Higher classes that are willing to do anything for profit; Like Paula V and Keir S.

[@TotalBuffoon]

Sick of these games...let's tax 100% and be happy 😂

[@babydragoncreature]

@TotalBuffoon Have a referendum, and if you win, you win. If you lose, move on from socialism.

[@daveuk1324]

It's not about taxing income, it's about taxing wealth. Why is that so difficult to understand? 😅😅😅😅

[@soutteruk1]

Surely superrich as in the words 'super' and 'rich' conjoined?

[@johnlyon326]

How much does Starmer pay?

[@gerryparker7699]

Classic distraction. Whatever he pays is a lot more transparent than the mega rich and you know it.

[@johnlyon326]

@@gerryparker7699 Distraction? Hmm. Wonder where I learned that.

[@assses-3216]

This would be an interesting thing to take into the next election. Obviously 5 years is a long time in politics, however, if Labour's term is beset by economic hardships globally or nationally, it increases the likelihood of right-wing populism becoming the 'solution' with the most backing. Creating methodologies to balance the scales seems like it would get a lot of people on side, especially those from more economically deprived backgrounds. This is the Labour I want to see, one which is ambitious and willing to side-step the neo-liberal noise of deficit and debt, to create things of real value. Value which can also be allocated to developing new economic in deprived areas and towns. The question is: how do you do this in such a way which means the working and middle classes feel it will work for them and not deprive their children of opportunities? Frankly, the fact trusts and estates can obscene value and be untaxable, is ludicrous in a country which expects a person earning above median salary to contribute upwards of 40% of their income to the treasury. - Though trusts are useful tools for ensuring security for people with disabilities or additional needs... shaking things up is something I know many millennials and gen-Z would be in favour of. Boomers who benefitted from the post-war attempts to equalise society, will obviously be the hardest to convince since generally they are asset rich.

[@babydragoncreature]

Well, on the middle-class topic, it's less about persuasion and more about honesty. If Labour increases inheritance tax, they should just consult the people it would impact and give them homes upfront as an investment upfront. And I don't believe the money would go anywhere special - higher welfare won't fix these issues. The only way you combat populism is with centre-left speed of delivery that brings working-class people and middle-class people together. If you put them against one another, it actually creates racism in a holistic way.

[@assses-3216]

​@@babydragoncreature Persuading them means listening to them and hearing their concerns, then creating a policy which has the spirit of the proposal but also address some of the concerns. You're suggest people get homes if they're affected by inheritance tax changes? Seems a bit optimistic. I wasn't advocating for higher welfare. I was pointing out many people use their personal or familiar wealth and put it into a trust for someone who is disabled or needs care . I don't see any political desire from Labour to alienate either, or pit them against one another. Populism wins in circumstances like we see throughout the UK today, where wealth gaps are large and living standards are falling.

[@PMMagro]

Rishi paying tax, are you sure?

[@mustafamar1437]

Rushi pays more tax in a single year than most families do in 3 generations. Be grateful that he funds our poor and needy in society.

[@shazoids]

If only he paid 23% tax

[@davidp4456]

Liam, if you are continuing to be an MP why won’t you focus on the constitutional mess that has brought us to institutionalised corruption and the mechanisms of corporate and Government interests that is bringing the country to its knees. If you can’t do this step a side a let somebody else do the job who can.

[@R1koe2840]

23% of all Sunak income is a lot more than most people will pay in a lifetime, get over it

[@michaelgriffiths5723]

So you believe that you should pay less percentage the more you earn?

[@andy_ppp]

He pays even less than that btw, he actually earns at least 30-40m per year.

[@TeodorCostea-y1y]

Eat the rich

[@roman6149]

Dont worry soon self employed will pay 30% tax

[@paulgibbons2320]

Lol self-employed tax is basically an honesty box. 😂😂😂 it's a Pxss take.

[@mrb947]

@@paulgibbons2320so true , I work with self employed floor layers most earn 50/60k and only declare 20/25 max

[@flipurlid8029]

I think this man is being too simplistic. One of the main reasons for the large increase in assert pricing as been the rise in printing money especially since financial crisis in 2008 and the ongoing mismanagement of the economy by successive governments. Tax Tax Tax that’s all we hear from people like him. I am not wealthy but I not paid only 40% tax for a long time now. We pay a lot more when including NI and other consumption taxes. Let’s hear more about ideas to increase the pie for everyone, I suspect this man is actually bereft of Ideas.

[@davidmcculloch8490]

Quite the opposite. The "printed money" ended up inflating asset prices and created a rentier economy because it was left to banks to distribute it. Listen to Gary Stevenson of the patriotic millionaires.

[@peacelilly75]

And no interest being skimmed off thankyou

[@ajithgeorge7432]

At least Sunak bought clothes by paying from his pocket😂😂. What about Starmer?

[@uk145]

@ajithgeorge7432 totally irrelevant. Starmer may be terrible but don't use Sunak as an example for anything. No-one will ever be a worse PM (I hope)...

[@lukeosullivan7033]

Mate, the Tories syphoned billions from the UK tax payer with their VIP lanes and hotels for migrants and people are losing it over a pair of glasses

[@gerryparker7699]

Is that the best distraction you can do? A few free jackets rather than the millions and billions of avoided tax by the wealthy. Do some proper research please, it's embarrassing.

[@vinay4886]

I wonder if the book mentions the royal family’s tax arrangements at all or is it just about Rishi Sunak?!

[@gerryparker7699]

I wonder if the book references the consistent efforts of the rich to distract everyone onto something else, anything else, other than the central problem of our time. That of the super wealthy manipulating the legal, financial and democratic systems to their benefit and no one else's.

[@seanmcdonald5859]

Completely seperate issue.

[@vinay4886]

@ No it isn’t.

[@AnujKumar-ws1jy]

Looks like jealousy is high in majority of labour voters

[@lukeosullivan7033]

Nothing to do with jealousy. The ultra wealthy have maneuvered themselves into a position where they take more and more and contribute less and less. Wages have been stagnant for the last 15 years and taxes on everyone else are at their highest level for 75 years. That imbalance absolutely needs to be dealt with, the problem is the current labour government aren't going far enough.

[@gerryparker7699]

Looks like they are sick to death of having stagnant wages for 15 years whilst the wealthy in the same get richer. "We are all in this together" is a lie.

[@markcoomber8222]

Many of the “poor” are poor because they are too lazy to make the effort to stop being poor AND far too keen to point the finger at others while claiming they are they victim at no fault of their own. Meanwhile, the smarter active people start their own businesses, work hard (100hrs+ per week), employ others, pay a lot in taxes, build wealth and - quite rightly - would like to use some of this to give their children / grandchildren a helping hand….as well as paying more taxes and/or gifting to charity. These people aspire to better themselves and through their efforts have succeeded and should be allowed to enjoy all that comes with that success…..rather than being hammered for even more taxes to be (mis)spent on hand-outs to the bone-idle losers.

[@lesleywillis6177]

Yes but that’s why the environment they live in is so fantastic . The pensioners where I live arrange bus tours around the council estates to marvel at their beautiful gardens and well maintained homes. At least all of those extra free hours they have every week are not going to waste!

[@davidmcculloch8490]

Absolute garbage. Meritocracy is a fantasy. We live in an extractive economy.

[@lesleywillis6177]

If your neighbour pays the same tax rate as you but contributes 10 times more are you not happy?

[@babydragoncreature]

Better option: AI-led preventative healthcare revolution, micro homes, and mandatory GCSEs in economics.

[@assses-3216]

I agree preventative healthcare needs to play more of a role in the UK. However, AI-revolution with the current constraints on spending seems unlikely unless AI is contracted in (but that would be at great cost). It also will not solve the disparity of health outcomes based on wealth in the UK, as the current issue for many people is getting access to diagnosis and treatment of long-term or chronic conditions. As we're seeing the most disadvantaged being shut out of access to basic dentistry or GP services, your idea froms part of a wider solution which also addresses front-line staffing and policies which balance those scales.

[@babydragoncreature]

@assses-3216 How expensive would an AI-led preventative healthcare revolution cost? Because costs would naturally come down DUE to AI solving financial issues alongside early diagnosis, so, the upfront investment would be high in cost, but the long-term preventative outcomes would abolish disparity in healthcare as not everyone would need the same access as they do now (because we have prevented the issues). I don't know how much the upfront cost would be, though. Maybe £50bn+ in upfront investment to get it to where we need it - this includes foundational capital spend. So, why can't we just borrow £50bn for preventative healthcare diagnostics and make that money back via productivity gains? We could create an AI Investment Wealth Fund that specifically links to healthcare and economic growth. As we get the economy going, you could take small businesses out of tax completely and give them a game theory advantage. Thoughts?

[@raymccrae]

> micro homes Ok But we have to call them hobbit homes ;)

[@babydragoncreature]

@raymccrae AI-integrated micro homes and micro apartments are the future. Shire homes are much longer than micro homes; too much space. But sure, thy hobbit wins. You all have an unnecessary obsession with 'real homes'. We need AI, micro homes, and solar grids for those homes.

[@assses-3216]

@@babydragoncreature A lot of people already have solar on their roofs, in fact, the maximum capacity for ordinary houses in England seems to be around a 4 kw capacity. Which in winter, will not operate at such a level, thus requiring drawing from the grid.

[@simonm9097]

Everyone should pay the same rate of tax! Why tax someone at a higher rate just because they work harder and carry all the risk! Maybe if the government wasn't screwing everyone people would probably work harder to improve their own lives

[@jamesbirch130]

What a load of rubbish you spout.. So low pay means you aren't working hard.. tell that to the cleaners labourers joiners ect of this world..

[@AJRo-l2d]

The point of this post is taxing wealth not hard work. That is unless the population interprets working hard as inheriting assets which generate you income or earning a bonus as a CEO for cutting thousands of jobs to increase company profits.

[@JGSHDArgentina]

It's more taxing the super rich we are talking 10s of millions in their bank account and assets... They don't need to work a day in their lifes just live off the income their assets bring in and carry on living a luxurious lifestyle whilst the poor get poorer and the middle class gets squeezed out there assets.

[@markfranks1329]

Wow! I'm alright, Jack......eh? 🙄

[@AndrewJOliver]

If “working hard” is the key then tax dividends, income from rent and capital gains at >90%.

[@jungletiger1900]

The 60k plus earners are having the best times in their lives.

[@s44yyr]

The problem with taxing wealth is the reduction in incentives to save and take the risk investing or starting a business which creates the wealth in the first place. There is a high chance of failure.

[@JGSHDArgentina]

It's more taxing the super rich we are talking 10s of millions in their bank account and assets... They don't need to work a day in their lifes just live off the income their assets bring in and carry on living a luxurious lifestyle whilst the poor get poorer and the middle class gets squeezed out there assets.

[@benfarmer-webb1016]

If it comes down to pure savings and investments, every adult in the UK has a £20k ISA allowance each year. If you can save £20k in a year I think you van afford capital gains tax on any further investments you make after that

[@davidp4456]

This is an often repeated and naive argument. The more tax protections you put in the less risk they will make with their money in genuine investment. They simply use the mechanisms designed as an encouragement to protect the wealth they have and seek enrichment at the tax payers expense. The net result is stagnation and a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.

[@paulgibbons2320]

Absolute poppycock they come out with. Give yer brain a chance kiddo.

[@mattreddy2979]

What on earth makes anyone think the government is a better deployed of capital than the free market. We dont need more government we need less. Less tax, less interference.

[@davidstrudwick6879]

I suppose what makes people think that is that a functioning society requires tax revenue to provide the services we depend on.

[@californiadreamin8423]

Free market you say…..isn’t that what caused the 2008 financial crash, originating in the US housing market ? Are you sure you’re the expert you think you are ?

[@mattreddy2979]

@@californiadreamin8423 the 2008 financial crisis was caused by a us housing crisis where loans were intentionally given to people who couldn't afford them by irresponsible bankers. In a free market those bankers who made those bad loans would have been aloud to fail. Instead the governments of the west bailed them out and thus we ended free market capitalism. Failure is a natural part of a functioning market. We urgently need less government interference.

[@californiadreamin8423]

@@mattreddy2979 I don’t think you’re qualified, or have the expertise, to say that.

[@mattreddy2979]

@@californiadreamin8423 never assume is makes an ass out of u and me. I might be more qualified than you think. Who decides who is qualified to say what in your world? Whatever happen to free speech? You hit the nail on the head when you said ' I dont think '

[@khiburgess5848]

Missing the point mitigating as much tax as possible is a good thing do kot pay more than you should. If the system is designed that way you cannot criticise those who take advantage of it. A better way of approaching this is growth we need growth and Labour have elected to destroy growth. While we grow change the tax system.

[@kevinsyd2012]

The UK average single worker has a net average tax rate of 23.7% in 2023, not 40% as stated So Sunak was close to this average.

[@barryboom717]

It's good to know that Sunak pays closer to the average tax, it takes the sting out of me having to pay 40% tax whilst receiving considerably less money than he does 👍

[@kevinsyd2012]

@@barryboom717 But you don't pay 40% on your whole income do you!!

[@barryboom717]

@@kevinsyd2012 So why can't the top rate of tax on unearned income be raised to 40% like earned income?

[@kevinsyd2012]

@@barryboom717 Income is income whether earned or passive (unearned as you call it). That's why people pay tax on bank interest as passive income. And the top rate is 45% not 40%. You really need to get your facts right and stop believing all the social media nonsense.

[@kevinsyd2012]

​@@barryboom717 Unearned (as you call it) income is already taxed the same a earned income. Income is income regardless of where it comes from - just like bank interest is taxed as unearned income. And the top rate is 45% not 40%. You really need to get your facts correct and stop believing all the social media nonsense.

[@greentombdive]

Amusingly fractionally out of sync…. Meanwhile, recently in committee, Byrne’s creepy obsequiousness in his welcome towards that female rep of Amazon left me wondering .. no sub

[@mattreddy2979]

The politics of envy. Never gets old. We need more wealth creators not redistributors skimming off the top.

[@SlayerEddyTV]

We already have that and it isn't working for those at the bottom.

[@californiadreamin8423]

Sounds great. Give more details and examples.

[@henresearch]

More inequality, you mean?

[@michaelgriffiths5723]

Would you like a return to surfdom?

[@mattreddy2979]

@@californiadreamin8423 anything that uses less energy to produce and distribute. Anything that's gets a higher utility out of what has already been produced ie sharing what we have so we need to produce less. We have an aging demographic, service their needs and wants.

[@mogznwaz]

What does 23% amount to in pounds though? I bet his 23% is a lot more than my 40%

[@SimonLeeds]

Doesn’t mean that he needs 17% more money to live than you do. What’s the most expensive thing you can eat? Steaks everyday? Lobsters and champagne everyday? Is that still not enough? Sunny beach holidays waited on hand and foot? Does that cost that much? You think you’ve not got enough if you were earning 2mil a year? You’d be happy to see people die rather than shelling out a bit more? That’s like saying there’s rats in your house but they’re in the basement. Who cares right? You don’t see them. It’s the staffs job.

[@matthewoakley3772]

But he should pay 40%.

[@simbad307]

It's always about raising tax, never about cutting spending or reducing government 🙄

[@gerryparker7699]

I pay 40% tax on my earnings over 50k and I do not especially like being taxed , but "reducing government" is trotted out over and over again and with well over a decade of it, we are no where better. Why don't you comment about the gross unfairness of multi millionaires with incomes from capital gains of 28% max verses my 40%. They have massive assets, accountants to avoid tax and a big voice in the media. 90% of the population have barely seen any benefit in 15 years of carry on as you are, sucking up to the top 0.5%

[@simbad307]

@@gerryparker7699 I do, Rishi Sunak's £2million and Keir Starmer's £400k and only 20% tax. Billionaires don't set the rules, politicians do, that's where we start. The problem is government, not businesses.

[@lynclarke6184]

Rishi’s 20% is a lot more than most people’s 40%.

[@LG-jn5fx]

You have elite math skills there buddy.

[@gerryparker7699]

That makes it ok then. NOT. For generations we've had media owned mostly by the super rich, elected officials in debt to the super rich, advisers and pressure groups on behalf of the super rich distorting much of the world economy for the benefit of their own pockets. Their is no class war, but there is an information war and the rich own it !!!! 90% of the population is being taken for fools.

[@davideyres955]

How about you look at why you never held anyone to account for the 2008 crash that Labour caused? You should have implemented a tax on anyone who works in the finance industries? No? Just blame the “global financial crises” and ignore the deliberate policies to inflate house prices to drive growth at the cost of over borrowing? And note they are at it again looking to under regulate the banks and bully a ton of houses predominantly in the south east covering the countryside it concrete, making massive traffic jams and over taxing the infrastructure, leaving a massive bill just to try to get back to where we were before they trashed the area, all the while failing to address the issue of immigration or actively increasing it if their budget figures are to be believed. 2.5 million if Reves is correct. So a wealth tax is the answer is it? No because wealth can be transferred out of your tax jurisdiction. So that will leave the people that can’t transfer their wealth out who will get hammered, ie the middle class who pay for everything at the moment. Labour ruined the country before in the 70s with such inept thinking, Tories put the country back to gather then Labour koddsed it all up again ending up in 2008 and the Tories after Cameron seemed hell bent of following big government and ran up an unaffordable debt. Rather than focus on getting that sustainable Reves is pushing up our borrowing cost and reducing growth with her incompetent budget. This country is doomed unless she changes course.

[@assses-3216]

The crash was caused by the US property market which then caused a domino effect and threatened to strip the lifetime wealth of millions of UK citizens. Not stepping in would have lead to a more deprived society than we currently have with millions more being on welfare and the system not coping. We would probably have ended up in a hyperinflation spiral unless Keynesian economics was used to create demand for labour. But tbh, the tories were talking about bank deregulation, so why are you angry now Labour are back in charge? Also most of England's land is owned by a few people, if they all left the UK their incomes would suffer considerably as they would be unable to do that in any other country. Your reading of history is very lopsided with blame attributed to one party, but not another when similar circumstances occured.

[@Eptor7Gd]

You are economically illiterate im afraid to say and theres no educating "pork".The Systems corrupt with no 1 GOV better than any other.The Establishnent,Old& New Money,Central Banks&City of London run the World.Your niaivity is obtuse.And iv news for you,theres another recession inbound 2008 style on steroids,why?Cus the ppl in CONTROL of The System need it,as theyve created way too much QE which is Inflation.So Inflation will continue as theres no other way out and it will implode as Inflate or die,a deliberate policy designed by Bailey&Co at the BOE.So if theres ONLY 1 piece of advice you ever take on board its prepare,prepare, prepare.Take your liquidity out of their Centralised CON Trick(le) Dowm System,buy food,buy seeds,grow food,buy assets anything of intrinsic value,buy Gold&Silver.Protect yourself and your loved ones!

[@michaelbenton2518]

Such a old tale ,tax the rich ,will it really make a difference.we all have an opportunity in this country to get rich but it takes effort that many can't be bothered with . Socialism like all about this stupid idea were will it stop ,not enough from the really rich let's take from the next group .In the meantime let's give public sector and our selves the political class another pay rise even though the country is three trillion in debt which you the political class have done .What we need if opportunities for better work better wages ,taxing the rich I feel will not scratch the surface.I am not rich not remotely,but it makes me cross when you get a society that is already entitled enough to crab more of others efforts .

[@SimonLeeds]

The country is fucked. Let’s be like America and arm ourselves to stop the poor coming for us when they run out of food right?

[@rob8049]

It has been consistent tax cuts for the rich for about 40 years, is it really any suprise the countries debt is growing?

[@stevenpatrick9213]

The publics taxes being squandered is just light humour between these two

[@sunny96789]

The rich will leave if you tax wealth. Look at Reeves and her budget which is not helping the UK economy

[@kevinsyd2012]

The rich have already gone..!

[@antonyhorne]

Doesn't matter if they leave as the assets remain in the UK and are subject to tax. When Abromovich left the UK he couldn't take Chelsea FC and all his houses with him.

[@suvers1987]

Load of rubbish. They say they will leave to scare the government. The UK remains one of the best for investment. Just because the idiot plumber left, his assets remain here. He has made no attempt to sell these and invest elsewhere

[@SlayerEddyTV]

What level of wealth are you talking about? The level of wealth people like Gary Stevenson and others like Patriotic Millionaires UK are talking about taxing will not make any difference if they want to leave because the kind of assets they have here in the UK they can't take with them, like properties worth millions, so if they want to leave they will have to sell it, and that is when it can be taxed. Leaving will not help them. The Patriotic Millionaires UK have said they want to be taxed more because they can see what state this country is in.

[@michaelgriffiths5723]

Even if this was true, others would fill the void.

[@niknoks7638]

Baby Boomer bashing 2.0! 🙄

[@573lbt]

Can I go first please

[@gerryparker7699]

It's called demographics and economics. You could study it if you wanted.

[@pauledwards5954]

I earn £15 per hour and there is 20% tax deducted before i get my pittance.

[@gerryparker7699]

Yup and the maximum capital gains tax on millions of pounds of income is only 28% but for anyone on 50K+ it rises to 40%. We are all being taken for a ride over decades, by the power and corruption in media and government.

[@Derek-Trotter]

This bloke is deluded. You can't have a wealth fund when also carrying huge public debt and huge government deficits. You need house prices to come down not give young people a £10k gift. More intervention with even more unintended consequences looming if any this is implimented.

[@laurencecheyne593]

Giving everyone 10k will only push up house prices by......... 10k. Help to buy did the same. It was a way of raiding national income to subsidise house buyers.