Is It Historically Accurate? (Rome 1 Faction Tier List)

[@InvictaHistory]

Love this game despite some of the historical hiccups. Check it out for yourself using this link: wehy.pe/y/2/Invicta

[@Nobodytheoneofthemountains]

I found out that there was a thing called Arcani but it was the missspelling of a group of late roman empire spies and assassins which are actually spelled Areani.

[@michaellopresti6795]

the funny part is that in the italian version the roman gentes are correct juli remain juli but scipii are turned in cornelii and the brutii are change in junii

[@marinanguish9928]

Will you do one for Rome 2 now, to see if they improved?

[@xnfon7486]

Europa Barbarorum is a mod for this that made it much better. You could even start with Pyrrhus. They then moved onto Medieval II for Europa Barbarorum II.

[@TemenosL]

@@reginaldscot165 All of the phalanxes are broken in terms of how they function. Hoplitic forces absolutely did not magically turn their spears into one-handed pikes, however, their efficacy using the vanilla system is appreciated, otherwise spearmen don't really force-amplify in close order as they would realistically. Also hoplites absolutely did charge into contact, they didn't walk gingerly. Rome 2 actually sort of fixes this. Anyway, per the Germans, it's not strictly wrong. There is direct mention of Germans using small shields, and 'Overlong' spears in close order phalanxes. Were they a literal pikewall? We don't know, but it's not without some sort of reference or precedent.

[@Trapsarentgay133]

Egypt might have an army from the Bronze Age but that’s not going to stop them from conquering half the map

[@lokkotez]

Them pharaohs guards and archers are no joke lol

[@Εύροκλύδων]

Virgin Classical era vs Chad Bronze age

[@Spider-Too-Too]

Boi ; do I hate their chariot.

[@Spider-Too-Too]

@@lokkotez and their armor piercing cav

[@mr.voidroy6869]

Thatrs because their chariots have broken bonuses in auto resolve, so they just kinda steamroll the rest of the ai.

[@jerry250ify]

Invicta is like: "Good attempt CA, but see me after class"

[@RemusKingOfRome]

yes, "Class" something not seen in CA's ancient games - Elites - Commoners - poor - Slave etc

[@TheMelbournelad]

Imagine the terror that be felt if Invicta gave you homework 🔥🤮

[@Wowa9305]

@wowalinbie Yeah, but Bronze age egypt is like to shit into your brain you know. It’s really not that hard to look in a history book, even for tiny Informations...

[@Vee_9001]

@wowalinbie you can have a historically accurate game that is also a lot of fun. Look at the numerous mods of Rome 1 that focus on accuracy, or DEI in Rome 2 that adds mechanics that are supposed to simulate the era better than the base game does. Rome 1 succeeds Bc it’s mechanics gel together in a great way, not bc Egypt is Bronze Age.

[@ImWatchingYou69]

@wowalinbie rome 2 isnt historically accurate lol, and the historical mods are better than vanilla rome anyway despite the more uniform units

[@danielscheurwater2466]

King Juba of Numidia is actually famous for raising a number of "Roman" Legions during Caesars civil war, which performed well. I think Numidian legionaries are based on that

[@Seth9809]

This is also why that one Greek faction has legionaries in game as well. No wait, it should be Pontus, he is right.

[@shenanigans2877]

The Seleucids have legionaries because of a description of the parade of daphne

[@fristi61]

Even earlier, during the Second Punic War, Numidian (Masaesylian) king Syphax is known to have tried training legionary-style infantry with the help of the elder Scipios.

[@saguntum-iberian-greekkons7014]

More like a Western adviser giving all the advice to to make a modern unit.

[@Gigas0101]

Creative assembly presents: The Mystery of the Druids

[@Nolaris3]

Truly a man of culture

[@frsa67]

Hey hey people, Mandalore here

[@SerPinkKnight]

They all have an attitude

[@DrLennieSmall]

Droods

[@JakobM16]

Halligan!

[@abcdef-cs1jj]

Gladiators in gladiator gear on the battlefield isn't that much like having a tailor show up with his kit in modern times. It's more like a squad of professional wrestlers in their costumes and masks fighting with chairs and fists alongside modern infantry.

[@dubuyajay9964]

Weren't gladiators drafted to chase fleeing troops in one of the Punic Wars? They were given proper Roman kit instead of the inefficient gladiator gear, but still.

[@SidheGaliza]

Not gonna lie, that sounds awesome.

[@nikov82]

More like MMA fighters or boxers. Wrestlers would've been a correct analogy if the Romans fielded theatre performers.

[@cheshire4856]

More like WWE wrestlers with sawed off shotguns and MAC 10's, not necessarily the most practical weapons, but still perfectly capable of ruining your day. Actually some gladiators were using Gladii, and very showy impractical armor, but still armor, so think John Cena in a Mad Max costume with an M16. THAT would be awesome.

[@johnpotts8308]

I imagine it's more of a nod to the Sparticus uprising. Gladiators formed the core of his army (though the Romans themselves never used them).

[@CollinBuckman]

The night warriors seem like a reference to the Harii, a Germanic tribe Tacitus described as painting their bodies and shields black and attacking their enemies at night

[@WritesMe]

There's the comment I was going to leave.

[@dubuyajay9964]

I know, this was even mentioned in that one old History Channel show that was hosted by a former spec ops soldier. I am disappoint they didn't know this. And gladiators being drafted, equipped with proper army gear, and used to chase fleeing troops in one of the Punic Wars.

[@Blackvampire3]

You also hear of Harii in the audiobook Warrior of Rome free on youtube, the protagonist was trained with them

[@GonzoTehGreat]

@@dubuyajay9964 They did mention in the video that gladiators were drafted into the army as legionnaires, but they were not used (and equipped) as gladiators on the battlefield.

[@The_Honcho]

That sounds terrifying

[@ScFirestorM]

Dacia not being in the final tier list: Are we a joke to you?

[@scintillam_dei]

Dacia will daze ya.

[@casper191985]

Of course you’re a joke.. Take a LOOK in the MIRROR!!!

[@FubbleSmurf]

Ooga booga shiny stone mudhut.

[@giveussomevodka]

Upper Thrace should keep quiet, we run the Balkans and the Danube!

[@Zongooo]

I played my most enjoyable Total War campaign ever as Dacia. I had to abandon Dacia itself early on, but found a home in Sicily! From there I eventually reached my goal of destroying the Romans. Great fun.

[@WritesMe]

The main problem is, to get someone onto a battlefield in this game, they have to be a whole unit. So if we're gonna see a barbarian throw a head, we have to see 150 barbarians throwing heads.

[@lt.danicecream]

Why is that a problem?

[@gabbo7101]

@@lt.danicecream the total war series has everything divided into large units, which isnt super historically accurate in allot of cases. Especially amongst the celtic and germanic tribes, there were rarely dedicated formations and units, comprising of a singular kind of weapon. I mean, in the middle ages, assuming a whole group of men-at-arms would be carrying swords only is ignorant at best and historical revisionism at worst.

[@lt.danicecream]

@@gabbo7101 its a game not history or reality. What does it matter if they embellish?

[@gabbo7101]

@@lt.danicecream because historical accuracy is important in alot of cases, even for vidya games. Why make a historical game if you "embellish" it to the point of fiction?

[@lt.danicecream]

@@gabbo7101 because it's a game. They are not reality and are for entertainment purposes. If you want historical accuracy, watch a documentary.

[@DanielGiuseppeDiNiro]

One thing that I love about the italian version of RTW is that it has no Brutii nor Scipii, but instead Junii and Cornelii

[@BronzetheGolden]

I did not know that, that's pretty cool

[@gigastrike2]

You think the localization team just knew better?

[@D3fcon141]

@@gigastrike2 That would be my guess

[@JLrapel492]

😲

[@miquelr2353]

Brutii and scipii are cool names. Cornelus is not 😂

[@maryschick2785]

He forgot to mention how some of these military units were so effective that they still exist. Some are even quite common. The "Screeching Women" in particular can be seen every day, although they're known by their modern name of "Karens".

[@Kvs-vf9nt]

🤣🤣

[@askthepizzaguy]

Are they effective, though? They may screech to speak with the manager, but the manager usually is nonplussed by the experience and has the power to say "no" to the Karen.

[@jan-alexanderpelz1649]

Scythians were actually ver often depicted as wielding axes, going by greek accounts as well as Scythian grave findings the axe was like their go-to back up weapon. A lot of Scythians were buried with bows, spears and axes. Hence the scythian axemen

[@Thematic2177]

Axes were a status symbol in Scythia. It's a similar thing as how everyone associates medieval Europe with swords, because those were the weapons of the nobility, and sometimes people would get buried with their swords, but in fact the rank-and-file infantry virtually always used spears as their primary weapons.

[@gabbo7101]

I was going to make a comment like this. This dude in the video clearly knows jack shit about anything that isnt roman.

[@JLrapel492]

😲😲

[@adrianaslund8605]

The Amazons were known for their use of axes in Homeric times. And Amazons are basically based on aspects of Scythian culture..

[@andrewm78]

Thoroughly enjoyed this video, you should do the same thing for Barbarian Invasion and Alexander!

[@scintillam_dei]

The map in Alexander is the worst I've ever seen.

[@Jorn-gy3yc]

was about to comment this, 1+

[@Slayerlord13]

I vaguely remember some great fantasy units in barbarian invasion on par with stuff like arcani.

[@winniepooh4630]

@@Slayerlord13 Yes especially the Romano-British roster

[@Gniew2]

@@winniepooh4630 Paladins!

[@HistoricalWeapons]

Egyptians laugh in Greek

[@andkonblack]

i thought egyptians spoke african?

[@zhangtony3372]

i thought egyptians spoke arabic

[@Evan-rj9xy]

Don't be silly. The ancient Egyptians obviously spoke Klingon

[@solidsnack3681]

@@Evan-rj9xy well they had to get their pyramids from somewhere

[@tails18boy]

After the start of ptomey dynasty of course

[@nicolasrenaud6875]

Now wait a minute.... you forgot to cover the most important faction! REBELS

[@poop696969poop]

I 100% thought is was Tribune Aquila

[@casper191985]

@@poop696969poop Well you thought WRONG!!!

[@mmartinisgreat]

True

[@owenb8636]

Yeah we need to know about the real story behind the yubtseb elephants

[@herrbutterlachs1364]

15:48 I like how he starts tearing up as he realizes that Carthage has no chariots

[@MrEdders123]

Those flying pigs at 6:13 really made my day

[@TheAurelianProject]

So I guess pigs knew how to fly since antiquity

[@carltonbauheimer]

Best part of the video

[@emiliogarcia9473]

It was marvelous.

[@OperatorMax1993]

beautiful and magnificent and GLO-RI-OUS!

[@KathrynsWorldWildfireTracking]

When I realized there were no collision physics anymore in Rome II and elephants now sucked: _I wept for days._

[@wisp6826]

I think Numidians get legionaries, because king Juba during Ceasar's civil war was already using them in his army but it's a bit of a stretch, as he was a client state of Rome at the time.

[@RLuke103]

Hats off to you, Invicta. When you said CA sponsored this video I thought this video would pander but you gave them both barrels in a very fair video. Saying that, I think it's loose historical accuracy is one of the things that made RTW so much fun, I still play it today and can't wait for Remastered!

[@budakbaongsiah]

I'd say even if CA were not going to sponsor this episode, he would've made it anyway.

[@Hermenie]

The thing about every faction having onagers is simply the rule of fun. Getting stuck in long drawn out sieges is more realistic but less fun

[@therat1117]

Plus you can vague about 'hired some Greek guy to do it'. Apparently he forgot all about the Bosphoran Kingdom being right next to the Scythians as the handwave for why they get onagers.

[@forickgrimaldus8301]

@@therat1117 funnily enough in the Medieval period the Mongols "hired" Chinese and Islamic engineers to build siege works

[@therat1117]

@@forickgrimaldus8301 Exactly!

[@lordtarrisk1109]

I'd like to imagine all the Parthians sound like pink guy, and simply scare their enemies away by screaming.

[@dubuyajay9964]

'ey B0ss!

[@rtwmoder]

The cataphract were very armored Even better armor than legions

[@romanbuinyi]

​@@rtwmoder Nobody says that they were not armored. Cavalry can easily have heavier armor than infantry cos infantry has to fight on foot.

[@rtwmoder]

@@romanbuinyi that's right But cataphract are all armored Certainly the catapults were very different from the cavalry of the Roman army

[@Lord_Pilaf]

WHY DID YOU LEAVE ME?!!!

[@thuzzle]

Head Hurlers can only be used after the first battle. Before that they have 0 ammunition.

[@miquelr2353]

They couldnt bother with gathering some heads before battle? 😂😂

[@Papa_Susej]

I still remember when you made gameplay videos. Glad you've found a niche that you enjoy.

[@ferrjuan]

17:36 Numidia is well know to have had some of its infantry trained in the “Roman way” so they did have Numidian Legionnaires. In fact it is known that King Juba fielded legionnaires when he came to the help of the Optimates in North Africa against Julius Caesar especially during the Battle of Thapsus in 46BC.

[@estout324]

This brings me back to the days of the original channel, it's been so long I forgot the original name, it's making me go crazy

[@KUREIJIMAN]

We are the same. The original name of the channel is THFE productions I believe. I used to watch his gameplay commentaries/breakdowns to improve my plays.

[@Dethmeister]

Wasn't "Oakley" part of it too?

[@KUREIJIMAN]

@@Dethmeister The narrator is Oakley, the channel name was THFE productions kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5TEaGSfhbd1jrs

[@KageMinowara]

As I recall the reason that Creative Assembly made Egypt look like they're from out of the Bronze Age is because they were worried that they already had too many Greek themed factions and that if they added another it would have bored the players.

[@Kabcr]

Good tier list! I'd like to see a similar one for Rome 2!

[@harjutapa]

11:28 - I always assumed the Silver Shield Legionaries were just because someone at CA got confused about what the Argyraspides were and thought all the successor states had something like them.

[@stipicaradic]

In 166 BC, at the Daphne Parade under Antiochus IV, the Argyraspides corps is seen to be 5,000 strong and armed in the Roman fashion.

[@zaleost]

@@stipicaradic Yes I remember reading about something like that elsewhere, I suppose the key factor in this case is that in this period the Roman's would still have been using the Manipal Legion's, while the Lorica Segemtata wearing legionaries that the Seleucid version is based on didn't exist until the AD years.

[@BULLETPHIL99]

Wasn't Mithridates of Pontus the dude who was known most for trying to replicate Roman Legions? Shouldn't Pontus be the faction depicted with replica legionnaries?

[@BULLETPHIL99]

Also, if the Seleucid "legionnaires" actually did exist, wouldn't they not be wearing the Marian-era armor that they are seen wearing in this game, since the Roman infantry depicted is from the Republic era?

[@patricianoftheplebs6015]

That’s was mithradates VI “The poison King” was his tittle and a good book to read.

[@BULLETPHIL99]

@@patricianoftheplebs6015 that’s interesting. So he probably came after this era?

[@RLuke103]

Mithradates is probably the most famous example of someone trying to imitate Rome's legions but plenty of other civilizations have tried to copy legionaries.

[@wisp6826]

@@BULLETPHIL99 that's correct. Romans were fighting them after punic wars. A lot of time to Marian reforms, so you have a really good point there.

[@Luthies]

17:45 I do believe in the sources for Caesar's civil war it's mentioned Juba provided the optimates with legions trained in the roman style, so I think that's where this idea comes from.

[@pathutchison9866]

Claudii should be there. Probably highest aristocratic family in time, who felt they were above other nobles.

[@louielefou]

"Who felt like they were above other nobles" *laughs in Julio-Claudian dynasty*

[@danielchequer5842]

The claudii were the richest but not directly involved in military history. Tbh we only know them bc they merged with the Julii with Livia and Octavian getting married

[@SkylineFTW97]

@@danielchequer5842 But they were still heavily involved in the political sphere in areas we know about, at least going back to the days of Appius Claudius (who the Appian way is named after).

[@danielchequer5842]

@@SkylineFTW97 Cool! Something I didn't expected

[@Solid-Shizzard]

Fun fact the axe was a very popular item of the Scythian , besides arrow heads, and art of men with Bows, the Axe is the next most commonly shown/found weapon of the Scythian. The speculation seems to place it as an item used by a folk hero/ mythological figure or having been seen as a almost religious item just like the dagger all Scythian's seemed to have worn Besides the noble women and the siege I would say the Scythian Roster is fairly accurate

[@therat1117]

Yeah, no idea why he got on about the axes or having foot archers. It's not like everyone in steppe cultures could actually furnish their own horse and infantry are actually useful in battle (shockingly) so I don't know why he was up on having armoured foot archers or footmen with axes. It would make a great degree of sense that for settlement defence or simply to drive off horse archers that mass-volley foot archers would be used rather than all cavalry archers who can't use volley fire easily.

[@slayersam1]

@@therat1117 i think for the armoured archers it more about the fact that the belief is from the name that they would have been the best of best and so would not be wasted taking shots from the back and rather be placed on the front lines instead

[@KathrynsWorldWildfireTracking]

What do you mean besides the noble women? More and more of them are being discovered, mummified in their tombs, wearing armor; weapons in-hand. It was normal in the ancient world (think prehistory and Minoa, for example,) for women to equal men UNTIL the Greeks, Middle-Easterners and Roman types made male dominance a trend. Getting shit-scared of Amazon warriors (and having Athens invaded) is the reason the Greeks explain they went anti-woman in the first place. "Everythign in Moderation, and KEEP WOMEN UNDER RULE" were maxims. (In case people don't know what I'm referring to, The Acropolis was first a fortress, before it was made temple. All over it are statues and such describing history - depicting early conflicts with steppe warriors. The males are depicted as centaurs (not literally) as an insult to them (brutish animals.) The Amazon women are their fighting females exaggerated also as a smear on them. Breast-mutilators, man-enslavers and brutes as well. Classic war propaganda - born of the fear they felt when they almost got conquered. The Scythians took all of Athens, but couldn't take the fortress.)

[@therat1117]

@@slayersam1 That doesn't make any sense on the steppe where ranged combat was paramount. Why would you throw your best warriors face first into an arrowstorm instead of armouring them and putting them in the back where their archery prowess can shine?

[@therat1117]

Good point - there is ample archaeological and textual evidence for female combatants from steppe peoples. I would point out, however, that early Minoan culture (which appears to be matriarchal, with men of lower rather than equal status) was contemporaneous with early Sumerian and Akkadian culture, which was patriarchial, and Old Kingdom Egypt, which appears to be roughly equivalent-status. The status of women in society varied greatly throughout history, and by culture. There were city-states in Greece that were far less patriarchal than Athens, which if anything was one of the most patriarchal and misogynist. Sparta, for example, placed great emphasis on women's education (for the Spartiates, at any rate). The myths about Amazons have little to do with 'explaining' why Athens was heavily patriarchal - the Mycenaean precursors to the Ancient Greek period appear to already have been a patriarchal society in the 1500s BCE. The fortress-acropolis period was in the Mycenaean period, and very little material aside from walls survive from this period. The original decorations we have surviving from the Parthenon depict mythological figures, and a ceremonial religious procession with offerings, deities, and anon. You seem to be confusing Greek writers' depictions of 'Skythians' (Iranian peoples from the Ponto-Caspian steppe), Xerxes I of Persia's sacking of the Acropolis (neither the Skythians, nor any other steppe people invaded Greece, though Athens did use Skythians in their city watch, apparently as a police force), and mythological depictions of centaurs and Amazons that some writers hypothesise might refer to historical oral tradition of encounters with steppe peoples, and mashing them all together. Maybe take a minute and research the Classical period a little more thoroughly?

[@micahbonewell5994]

When Numidia was still independent during the roman civil wars of Julius Caesars time, Numidia did have legionaries, or at least men trained and equiped similarly to the romans. One of the history youtubers just released a video including that information.

[@jarinvergeer8833]

Which youtube video was that?

[@robwatson3027]

Arcani: When Rome's hold on Britain was weakening around 380AD, there was a co-ordinated invasion by Irish, Pictish and Saxon tribes. The Picts came down from Scotland, and were able to break through Hardian's Wall. The Arcani, or possibly Areani, were a Roman unit operating north of the Wall and who are mentioned as defecting to the Barbarian side. This is the only mention of them in Roman history, and they don't seem to have been regular soldiers. They might have been some kind of covert Intelligence unit, something of that sort. Perhaps natives under Roman command, wearing native garb and collecting information as they move about undetected?

[@Northstar1989]

The gens are named properly in Rome 2, aren't they? The Scipii became the Cornelii. The Brutii were re-named the Junii.

[@-Zevin-]

It's kind of Ironic, Rome 2 had a terrible release, tons of bugs, performance issues, created allot of anger and nostalgia for Rome 1. However now with all the patches it's a far superior game to Rome 1 and the Rome 1 remastered version, it's no contest for any history buff if you play with the DEI mod for Rome 2.

[@shorewall]

@@SimuLord Yeah, you only get one chance to make a first impression. I'm seeing that with Imperator: Rome, which is turning into a good game, but so many people gave up on it because of the crappy launch. :D

[@darthcalanil5333]

@@shorewall true. first impressions are the most important but after a while objective, unbiased comparison shouldn't be influenced by emotional nostalgia. I'm glad that Imperator at least had an absolute beauty of a map. if anything, it kept me interested in its development, and now I really love that game. Rome 2 after the many patches and updates even without mods, although far from perfect, is imo clearly superior to Rome 1. It's not just the visuals. The battles, the sieges, the UI and tooltips, unit roasters..etc are all quite better than Rome 1 remastered. Like seriously Remastered makes rome 1 "look better", but the new UI design in some places is really worse than the old base game :O

[@zaleost]

The factions and units being more accurate is definitely something I'll give Rome 2, but in many other ways I would still say its inferior to the original. Whenever I try to play Rome 2 I always struggle to get in to it, while I can load up Rome 1 and play it for long periods of time very easily.

[@patriotmk141]

Yes they are

[@dragonworldraid9738]

Incendiary pigs existed. As well as incendiary camels, both used to scare elephants and make them turn arround on their allies

[@lakersk7821]

I think they put Scythian head hunting maidens there, because according to Herodotus, their maidens could not marry before they kill man in a battle. So their maidens literally had to hunt heads.

[@davidliddelow5704]

You say the scutum came from Iberia, it was my understanding it came from the Samnites in central Italy. The gladius design came from Iberia though.

[@danielboggan2479]

You are correct on both accounts

[@dubuyajay9964]

@@danielboggan2479 Oof.

[@CarrotConsumer]

The scutum existed in Italy since prehistoric times. Iberians used it for a long time too. The Romans would have had contact with both Italians and Iberians (they were renowned mercenaries) so it's not like they discovered it when they fought the Samnites.

[@Sakattack2023]

Pretty sure that’s all just legend. They got the scutum from the Iberian celts and horse back riding from the Samnites and ship building from Carthage. All just legend they told themselves through history.

[@davidliddelow5704]

@@Sakattack2023 I've had a look and it seems the people claiming the scutum came from the Celts are using an extremely broad definition of scutum where all boss held shields are considered scutum. The use of plywood and very deep convex shape seem to be roman though.

[@AidanDracole]

I'm surprised by how lenient you were with regard to some of the units, the Urban Cohort in particular. The "what did they do to you, mah boy!" skit was on point, got a chuckle out of me. That said: 6:20 Looks like bacon's back on the menu, boys(!)

[@InvictaHistory]

I actually had an original take of this that went way more in depth (1.5 hrs) but decided to cut it back substantially to make it watchable. But yeah the urban cohorts is pretty shady. To my knowledge it only really refers to the cohorts attached to Rome following Augustus's victory in the Civil War

[@thecount1374]

@@InvictaHistory can you do a units of history from the Philippines please

[@LarryVickers47]

@@thecount1374 NO

[@thecount1374]

@@LarryVickers47 why not?

[@patriotmk141]

@@InvictaHistory by changing the naming of the units in every faction that you covered i think it would bring them a tier above. Except egypt

[@fmd_129]

12:32 LMFAO!!! I normally do not hear your humor slip like that in videos, I cracked up haha. As usual, amazing video, I played the shit out of Rome as a kid which also accelerated me into learning about history more (the in depth unit and building details were my favorite).

[@kaisercommodus4977]

"The elite of Carthage, who took to the battlefield as horses at times". Yes. Gulliver never found an island with horse masters, but just Carthage where horses obviously ruled as nobles! CANON

[@awp7042]

11:30 The Seleucid empire had a legion-sized unit, according to Polybius (Histories, book XXX, 25, 3). He describes a parade of Antioch's army that "(...)was headed by five thousand men in the prime of life armed after the Roman fashion and wearing breastplates of chain-armour."

[@awp7042]

I highly doubt they were armed with lorica segmentata like in Rome though

[@joshuapilling3641]

The arcani are mentioned as a sort of imperial scout unit in Britain during the 4th century I believe, however they were disbanded after the great conspiracy only 20 years after their establishment.

[@Wowa9305]

So basically they are useless. Even for gameplay purposes... 😅

[@joshuapilling3641]

@@Wowa9305 Yeah, I they were really just border guards

[@Athena-oh3uj]

Polybius talks of Antiochus IVs Seleucid soldiers being equipped in the Roman fashion Polybius 30.25.3. Although this was as part of a games put on by Antiochus so whether or not they were actually meant to be used we cannot quite say.

[@armandom.s.1844]

The Daphne parade was pretty sure the beggining of his expedition to the East. As soldiers wearing chain mail and shields were present at Antiochus III's expedition too, it seems they were an actual unit in Seleucid armies. Not a Roman-styled copy, but an Hellenistic type of medium-heavy infantry to provide roles impossible for a phalanx like mountain warfare or flank protection.

[@adventure_skaut]

Hol' up Did he just completely forget about dacia there at the end?

[@MrEcoyas]

"My boy ! What did they do to my boy !?! " 🤣

[@podemosurss8316]

17:58 I think that's a reference to the fact that the Numidians under Massinisa copied the Roman military organisation after the 2nd Punic war (as they were allied to Rome).

[@MachinimaGothic]

17:46 Recently you could watch video on Kings and Generals account. During Rome Civil War their bring units trained in Roman fashion

[@Northstar1989]

Some of this is a "What If" unit roster, had certain factions lasted longer and not been conquered by Rome, he has to remember. The Silver Shield Legionaries and Armored Elephants make more sense in that context (capabilities Seleucia and Carthage might have developed had they lasted longer and not started to collapse so soon...)

[@houndofculann1793]

Realistically Carthage having armored elephants isn't an option even if they did survive longer since the elephant species they had access to weren't strong enough for that kind of equipment, as stated in the video. Giving them access to Indian elephants that live on the opposite side of the map from them is a bit too much of a stretch even if they did expand

[@Gustav_Kuriga]

@@houndofculann1793 They were strong enough for armor, they just wouldn't have been as big...

[@houndofculann1793]

@@Gustav_Kuriga Their size difference will correlate to strength to some degree no matter what. It was stated in the video and does make sense to me, you go ahead and do your own research if you like but so far this conversation is only based in hearsay and the fact that I expect the video to have done its research

[@Gustav_Kuriga]

@@houndofculann1793 If strength were strictly related to size, horse armor wouldn't be a thing. Yet we have cataphracts outfitting their horses in armored coats that completely cover them. It's actually far easier to make encompassing armor for a smaller animal than a larger one, as the armor actually uses less material, and thus is actually lighter to achieve the same protection. If you'll look throughout the comments, you'll see that there are a number of things that Invicta got plainly wrong. The existence of legionary copies among other kingdoms, the timeline for the existence of the Sacred Band, etc.

[@houndofculann1793]

@@Gustav_Kuriga "to some extent" which is what I said is very different from "strictly". Don't put words in my mouth and pretend that makes you right. Heavy horse armor was only used with horses that were raised and bred for that purpose as well as people knew, and lighter and smaller horses are not nearly as capable of handling the weight. Edit: also to reiterate, I am still just pointing out what was said in the video and you are still only arguing without any additional proof except "trust me". I take no responsibility of the historical accuracy of my statements you're arguing against as I am only reiterating the video. Also, contrary to what you say, making armor for a smaller animal is actually relatively heavier as you can't make the armor thinner without sacrificing protection and on the other hand don't need to make it thicker to offer the same protection for a larger creature, so the denseness of the smaller armor is higher in total

[@TheDarthbinky]

With regards to Carthage and the mercenaries, mercenaries were usually only recruitable in the areas where they were historically from (more or less). So if you have a Carthaginian army and wanted to get Gallic mercenaries, you had to buy them while in Gallia (including northern Italy). As I recall, there was a special tab that allowed you to hire mercenaries. Some mercenaries show up as hirable by a faction because that faction already controls territory where those mercenaries are from- hence the "Spanish mercenaries" and "Balearic slingers" (which are in the characteristic mercenary green) being available to Carthage, because Carthage starts off controlling a big chunk of southern Iberian peninsula.

[@se6369]

It's not exactly how the game works, mercenaries are available only in certain regions to all factions, but in custom singleplayer/multiplayer battles, there is a premade set for each faction (or none at all)

[@Manco654]

Really enjoyable video! Would love sth like that for DEI since there would be so many cool units to talk about and give some historical background 🤌

[@Wowa9305]

Couldn‘t agree more. 🤌🏻

[@johnirby8847]

I look at it like it's from the viewpoint of the Romans about an unknown world.

[@rhuarc420]

I would love to see this but for rome total realism. It has most of the missing units and names I lived and loved that game

[@lt.danicecream]

Yes, thank you. I was trying to remember the name of the mod I used. That mod, for me, made the game playable for many years after Rome was released. I would love to see them come back for the remaster.

[@rorschach1985ify]

@@lt.danicecream They are back and they teamed up with the makers of another mod called Roma Surrectum for the Remaster.

[@lt.danicecream]

@@rorschach1985ify that's good to hear

[@slayersam1]

An old British game show called Time Commanders (which used a beta version of RTW) may address some issues as they has historical experts on board explaining stuff and the justifications. The show did feature the battle of Kadesh between the Egyptians and Hittites (the latter unfortunately/fortuneately didn't make it into the game, but decided to keep Egypt as it was). The Spartacus gladiator uprising was also featured and so likely kept the gladiator units in.

[@Nazdreg1]

I think, the Germanic women unit is a reference to Tacitus who mentioned Germanic women screaming at their men to encourage them to fight harder.

[@darthcalanil5333]

"screeching women" has to be in the top 10 most interesting (worst?) unit names in any video game EVER! XD

[@TheAurelianProject]

Best

[@thesacredlobo]

If I remember correctly in one of "Naruto: The Path of Ninja Games" you can find a unit named "only girl in group". So it could be worse.

[@IndeeshMukhopadhyay]

Hearing these comments it’s quite interesting to see how well CA did TW Rome II (post launch). Man I can’t wait till the 29th tho, Rome I is some serious nostalgia

[@sheildingepicness]

Fantastic video concept

[@Yourantsally]

Cesar once had to go to a meeting with the leader of an army of gauls, and they were only allowed a cavalry escort, so he had his most trusted and skilled infantry mount up to join him. That's all I could find about "praetorian cavalry"

[@somethinglikethat2176]

That was Caesar's 10th legion. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_X_Equestris

[@kalebjohns7715]

I'm glad you are going back to your roots with this video. All of your original videos were made with Total War game play

[@LXHFIRENKING]

Who would hesitate for a split second to throw historic accuracy out of the window so that we can witness the sheer glory of field bacon getting launched to the moon by war elephants running amok !

[@reaper411b]

what a fantastic video, thanks bro

[@skullthrone8882]

Didn't The Numidians having copy legionaires during Caesars civil war?

[@robbierobinson5798]

Yeah, I think he didn't think of that.

[@skullthrone8882]

@@robbierobinson5798 I would have missed it if it weren't for the kings and generals channel

[@inquisition_5753]

Also the galatians also have their own copies of roman legions.

[@stipicaradic]

And the Seleucids.

[@niallreid7664]

Literally clicked for your thoughts on Egypt lol. Everything else was just icing on the cake.

[@tomastakac7027]

Actually, I discovered Seleucids in this game for the first time, from then till now I love that faction. Probably because of the interesting blend of western and eastern units, good starting location, interesting faction. Great memories, tuned up to play it again, of course with mods.

[@crimson7515]

Completely historically inaccurate, but I think Egypt was depicted as Bronze Age just for the sake of entertainment and because it would make them look too much like existing factions. Especially Carthage.

[@DOMDZ90911]

I absolutely love the Europa Barbarorum for its dedication to historical accuracy and I hope the mod team ports it to the remaster.

[@somethinglikethat2176]

Doesn't look likely. They're still continuing work of EB2 for Medieval 2. Edit: that was from their Twitter account.

[@NightbirdProductions]

The Seleucid Empire did have “Romanized” infantry during the reign of one of their last kings, but I doubt that they used the exact same equipment.

[@ArsenAl-zorK]

Dacia feeling real lonely down there 😭

[@hammer3721]

I like how half of these complaints are about the names being in English.

[@smugglergoblin9503]

The German tribes not having any notable Spearmen when they are possibly named SPEARmen ( there is a theory that they were named after the Ger, a spear which all of them seemed to use) is pretty bad actually.

[@andersbjrnsen7203]

I seem to remember they had badass pikes very early on, isnt that Spears enough?

[@smugglergoblin9503]

@@andersbjrnsen7203 maybe im too rome2 spoiled where u have many more possible units but only having one unit for that doesnt represent that enough for me

[@kayeka4123]

@@andersbjrnsen7203 They did. They were low-ranked and barely armoured, but could use the phalanx formation, which was all kinds of overpowered back then.

[@michaelstein7510]

The Germans had a spearmen unit who could form a phalanx in vanilla Rome 1. It actually gave them a huge advantage over all the other barbarian factions. Was this unit taken out from the remaster?

[@hrotha]

Super old comment but still: that theory doesn't make sense. The name "Germani" is attested in Latin at a time when the Germanic word for "spear" was something like *gaizaz (cf. the Vandalic name Gaiseric many centuries later)

[@poil8351]

gladiators did i believe fight in extreme emergencies like when the gauls invaded rome.

[@pipebomber04]

There were civil wars (i think during time of constantius???) Wherein gladiators fought in groups against legionnaires (not spartacus' revolt)

[@nausherwanbabry]

Correct

[@therat1117]

True, but they would have equipped themselves like regular combat troops if they could, not used their stylised gladiator equipment that was often deliberately designed to impair the user for 'balance' in arena combat between different gladiator types.

[@travisblack8767]

Hell yeah can’t wait to watch this one! Keep up the great work man

[@andrerobinson3233]

Will you do this for the other total wars?

[@henriquenetto9407]

rome totalwar is one of the best games i have ever played. The video review you did is fantastic, just like the channel itself. I bought the remastered version after this historical analysis. Thank you for the content, good job!

[@BerlinerStadtaffen]

It is cool to see how much better they got with historical accuracy by Rome 2.

[@codyferguson2959]

I would love this for the other total war games! I am always curious where they come up with the units for the various factions. Great video!

[@TemenosL]

Hi, actually no, Lambdas aren't a great choice for Spartans, and they didn't have them in the original Rome, which was better. They aren't 'dresses', they were badly and simply modeled cloaks, because Spartans famously wore crimson cloaks. The helmet's fine for the period. Greek 'heavy peltasts' are incorrect, though the shield is correct for the period. They wouldn't be peltasts though, but should be thureophoroi spearmen or armored thorakitai. Almost all depictions of bracers and leather arm bands need to go, they're crap. Also you are actually incorrect about levy pike phalanxes, those are well attested to and are of a lower quality than standard 'line' pikemen and certainly than elite phalangitai.

[@TemenosL]

Also the Greeks needed syntagma pikemen. Just not to the quality of the Macs.

[@TemenosL]

Also yes, the LITERAL silver shield legionaries being actual off-color legionaries is ridiculous. Historically you have to take it with a grain of salt when a Roman source says certain troops are 'Romanized'. Ovular shields and javelins with primary weapons were UBIQUITOUS in this era! Most likely these 'Roman copies!!!' at BEST had a similarly deeply dished ovular shield and SOME kind of maille. The helmets, greaves, swords, and javelins, maybe even the shields, would probably just be a local variety. Hahah, yes, Egypt is a mess.

[@legatus2976]

Actually from what I remember the Parthians never used infantry outside of defending cities, so it does make sense that their infantry is really crappy. The Parthians were actually descended from a Scythian tribe called the Parni, and though they ended up conquering much of the former Achaemenid Empire they still retained that steppe archer tradition for a while at least. Also the Scythian tribes did use an axe called the sagaris, so it makes sense to have an axemen unit for them.

[@redjacc7581]

one thing i wanted from the remastered version is that any shield armed unit for the greek cities would have the cities symbol on the shield.

[@raymondbenjamins5884]

That would be great. They already did something similar, with skin tones now being dependent on where the unit was recruited. So I'm wondering whether that might be possible to mod in.

[@dubuyajay9964]

05:00. Were not gladiators drafted in one of the Punic Wars to serve as troops? Since the Romans were desperate for troops. And they were offered freedom if they survived? The main issue would be the gladiators would've been equipped in standard Roman military gear instead of gladiator garb and were mainly used to chase down fleeing enemy troops, but still.

[@bradenculver7457]

Still have my box copy of this game

[@napoleoniii8372]

30:35 I assume that (and the head hunter maiden) is meant to be a reference to Queen Tomyris (of Scythia) who supposedly killed Cyrus the Great. Especially since he was meant to have been beheaded.

[@PobortzaPl]

And to the fact that about 20% of people buried in kurghans with weapons are women.

[@davidbocquelet-dbodesign]

This and the greek legend about scythian women not allowed to marry before they killed their first man in battle. Lot of amazon flavour here.

[@kashual]

To be fair, the mercenaries that are missing can be recruited in the campaign. But for custom battles it is indeed a miss. After all I've seen of this, I'd still prefer to play Rome2 with DEI.

[@ashwinnmyburgh9364]

This game is amazing, never expected a remaster.

[@paulmuntean1459]

I am from Dacia. Sad that we will never know what tier it is :( It is always forgotten :(

[@roadrunner6474]

yo at least you got siege equipment here in Germany all we got are naked hooligans

[@Fatherofheroesandheroines]

Ahem. Romania. There is no more Dacia. The Romans colonized Dacia and mixed them out

[@paulmuntean1459]

@@Fatherofheroesandheroines waw, man, no! REALLY!? Waw... all these years i had no idea where I live...

[@suckadoesstuff7095]

There are some Roman sources of the Britons throwing heads from captured Roman soldiers right before the skirmishers would advance but it was only mentioned a time or two right as the Romans were moving into modern day Scotland and northern England

[@kala_asi]

6:10 ad hog!

[@Jorn-gy3yc]

Lmao yeet

[@johnconnor8206]

4:50 peasants are a generic unit all factions have access too

[@darthcalanil5333]

I was so ready to blast away at how CA sponsorship is kinda forcing good PR about Rome Remastered, but I ended up getting pleasantly surprised and sorta proud that Invicta kept his integrity despite the sponsorships. Great job as always :D

[@hyoung1221]

Glad to see you returning to your Total War roots, Oakley

[@doubledouble4g379]

I would've enjoyed the ability to build bridges and walls as Rome - some of the Legion's most impressive feats involved construction.

[@KathrynsWorldWildfireTracking]

14:59 - Not criticism...I find it cute: 'Victa keeps derping and calling it "cal-var-ee." Just to clarify kids - it's "CAV-al-ree." Cavalry is your unit with warhorses. Calvary is the hill where Jesus was crucified.

[@rensvisser6504]

As soon Invicta watches the spiffing Brit, the doggos wil be placed in god tier rank haha

[@davidbodor1762]

31:30 - I think they're trying to reference the Amazons as one potential explanation for the myths was that it's about Scythians.

[@RaggaDruida]

You should do this kind of analysis on some of the mods done for the original game! I have very fond memories of Rome Total Realism & Rome Total Realism Anabasis!

[@fairytala]

I'm surprised to hear you say that Romans did not use war dogs. When I made an attempt at studying history (for two semesters before I realised learning a gazillion dates by heart was impossible for me) and came across a book of primary sources of dogs throughout antiquity. Therein was a recipe for the bread used for feeding the war dogs. (Which to my surprise was vegan...) I always assumed that roman war dogs were a thing. I know you already made a video about pets in Rome, but I would love for you to elaborate on the historical use of animals (especially dogs and horses) in battle!

[@danielboggan2479]

The romans did use dogs, in some cases. I know they used them in Britain.

[@therat1117]

Yeah, a lot of groups historically used dogs in warfare. The Greeks used war dogs against steppe peoples to terrify their horses or just having dogs follow their citizens into battle, the Arverni are recorded insulting the Romans by attacking a small scouting force using only their war dogs, Romans used them for counter-insurgency purposes against guerrillas, there's ample indication for their widespread use.

[@williamgoo7621]

Arcani retreating. "Our men are running from the battlefield! Ah..... SHAMEFUR DISPRAY!.... Wait.... wrong game!"

[@gnb_2476]

I remember playing this back in the day. I think they threw in some of the additional units like silver shield legions as fantasy units as you progress and sort of alter the historical timeliness. I remember conquering the campaign using the Seleucids and created my own form of combat combining silver shield legions and phalanx.