Is it OK to feed Lionfish to sharks and reef fish?

The invasive Lionfish has destroyed the entire Caribbean, Gulf of Mexico, the entire coast of Florida and more. Attempts to control the Lionfish are made to help save the coral reefs. But what is acceptable and what is not? It is a controversial subject that has many sides. What are your thoughts on controlling the Lionfish population?
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#shark #lionfish #marineconservation

[@from_mars424]

I am an avid lionfish hunter myself. But I once took a sub to 200 meters. The first 40 meters of depth (scuba diving depths) there were almost no lionfish. From 40-100 meters they were everywhere, giants. What we catch as scuba divers at allowed depths, is just literally the tip of the iceberg. Sadly. I even saw lionfish swim in total darkness at 150 meters...

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Wow no kidding?! Thats crazy. I have heard they are deep, but 150 meters? Wow. Where was this? Thanks for sharing.

[@from_mars424]

@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte Curacao, southern Caribbean

[@larrybremer4930]

Probably a few irresponsible pet owners are responsible for this travesty. Pterois volitans are popular for marine home aquariums but they do get big and have voracious appetites. Likely some fish keeper who no longer liked seeing his other fish eaten or otherwise decided the lion was no longer wanted turned it lose in the sea rather than rehoming or just euthanizing it. The problem is the south pacific where lions like Pterois volitans are native is a tropical ocean, but so is the American southeastern seaboard and Caribbean so they can easily survive in those water. In their native range there are some specialist Lionfish eaters but in the Caribbean there are not any so their numbers grow unchecked. One rule of the sea is a fish that will fit in another fishes mouth will find its way there so having an unchecked population of relatively large suction feeding predators is very bad for the reef ecosystems. If your trying to "train" species to predate on Lionfish I would suggest taking scissors with you to snip their dorsal spines to make them more palatable. Let them get the taste and conditioning to prey on Lionfish and they will eventually adapt to contend with the venomous spines.

[@from_mars424]

@@larrybremer4930 While the aquarium theory seems very plausible, it is way more likely the lionfish came to this side of the earth through the ballast tanks of large commercial vessels, with Miami harbor being a major hub. When these large vessels are empty, they fill their ballast tanks with seawater (around 50 olympic pools at a time) to keep the vessel stable during its voyage. It's way more likely that this is the way the lionfish (and probably many other species) got distributed to this side of the planet.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yeah I have also heard that theory about the ballast tanks. Its really hard to tell huh? Whatever it was, the Caribbean Sea will never be the same.

[@Brandinisnores]

Normally it would probably be bad to make wild animals associate humans with free food, but in this case it serves to only feed them lion fish that they would eventually learn to hunt and eat on their own. A good way to get more help in curbing lionfish populations

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Well said. Thank you for leaving this comment. Its also fun for divers to have the sharks swim up and around you. Its good for tourism and will help save the shark from being fished.

[@homesteadaquarius]

Bingo!

[@larrybremer4930]

As long as they are not feeding sharks that pose a real risk of attacks on humans. We certainly dont want to train bulls and tigers to associate divers with a free lunch

[@JFTB-i8y]

@@larrybremer4930 ? if this were true than a shark that attacks one human would just continually do so. Theres not enough shark attacks concentrated in one area repeatedly to suggest that would be the case.

[@larrybremer4930]

@@JFTB-i8y ANY animal, even very dumb species can be trained with a food reward and sharks are not "dumb". They are in fact highly intelligent as far as what we classically call "fish" are concerned and we know this because they can exhibit vast ranges of behavior based on their emotional state and analysis of a situation that shows they are not solely operating on instinct. The concern is not that a shark would be trained to consume humans as a food source, but that they would associate human presence with a food reward and that is absolutely a trainable behavior when given a sufficient number of repetitions + reward stimulus and one investigatory bite could be life altering to the unfortunate diver who gets bitten by a shark just looking for his free fish. Feed nurse sharks or other species that are generally unable to do much harm in a human attack but not the pelagic species that can remove entire limbs or disembowel a human with just an investigatory nibble.

[@abyssflight3907]

observing the behavior of the triggerfish it looked like it was targeting the head and avoiding the backside of the lionfish, this suggest this triggerfish has experience and knows what it's doing and has eaten lionfish before.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Good point. The triggerfish is used to eating things like sea urchins that have spines. It probably has learned what to do.

[@joshtracy4441]

Yeah it looked like it knew what it was doing. Multiple times could have bitten back end and circled to face.

[@shawncarroll5255]

​@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte what the triggerfish was doing to the lionfish reminds me of Fishers, the second largest mustelid in North America after wolverines. Fishers are the only specialist feeding on porcupines, and attack very carefully around the spines. It strikes me that if you could raise Triggerfish in a large facility, letting them observe other triggerfish feasting off of lionfish (while finding some way to work around the fact that trigger fish are pretty territorial) - a triggerfish eating lionfish as it's primary diet, and then it's young eventually observing the behavior - might kill a LOT more Lionfish than the typical diver in the long run.

[@pn5705]

We NEED that triggerfish to reproduce and teach its young these practices. Yes, even the simplest of fish can teach the next generation hunting stratagems and the like. And the triggerfish is NOT so simple of a fish. It’s actually fairly intelligent-by such standards.

[@bendalton5221]

it is associating the spines of the lion fish with the spines on an urchin. It probably thought you were reeling in an urchin and it moved in for the steal

[@marktohulka8937]

As nothingbutstatic said, triggerfish commonly eat urchins by breaking off spines and flipping them over, including the venomous long-spined urchin Diadema. Resemblance of lion fish to urchins probably helps. Not sure if the other fish are ok with the spines. It would be great to know if particular sharks and groupers will come back at eat them again after eating one. My opinion: keep feeding lion fish to other predators.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

That is a really interesting point with the sea urchins!

[@fuwymechtopia8982]

Training local fauna to prey on lionfish is a very smart and sustainable move. We will not always be down there to hunt and remove them. We have limited time and resources, and can only sweep so far per dive. Putting lionfish in the menu is working, but will take more time and change in consumer behavior. Explore all the avenues that we can, because being passive/reactive about this only gives lionfish more opportunities to penetrate deeper and take over.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Good point, thanks for sharing!

[@CoreysCrustaceans]

People downplay how smart these massive fish are. Yeah maybe not as smart as a mammal, but they absolutely communicate and observe foreign things in their environment. They normally dont go after them, not because they don't associate them with food but rather because it poses an unknown risk to potential predators who are much too picky to take the chance. Once fish get a taste for something they'll never forget it

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Thank you for this comment. Well said.

[@stevemorrison2174]

Teaching local species of fish to eat lionfish is the only way to get this problem under control imo.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yep hopefully it works.

[@geraldstone8396]

Agreed. It would have happened anyway. This just speeds up the learning process. I think some species of birds have recently learned on their own to eat Japanese beetles.

[@randomname1251]

I think it has to include more than just teaching local fish, we also have to put them on our own menu. Otherwise the lion fish will keep exploding

[@stevemorrison2174]

@@randomname1251 Agree and they are supposedly good to eat too.

[@christopherdsuza7531]

I Always thought hey ate lion fish. Had a trigger and lionfish in a tank once and the trigger ate the lion first picking off all the spines then eating it.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Oh wow!

[@Al556]

The other fish can tell that the lionfish is injured and when something gets injured in the ocean, it’s basically food for everyone else

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yes that has a lot to do with it.

[@TheJECNova]

Trigger fish, IIRC, deal with similar "thorny" customers, all the time. So, they know how deal with and consume prickly subjects. The issue with other predators is they don't know be wary of way/direction they consume the Lionfish. (Note: that Grouper tried eat it from the side and thus went, "Yuck/Owww, Patooey!" With it. Eaten from the front, they have no issue that I've either seen or heard about?)

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Good comment, thank you!

[@seansingh4421]

Dude you’re like the underwater “I got candy in my van” man but for sharks, and somehow that’s a good (and hilarious) thing 😂😂😂😂

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Hahahaha, thats funny!!!!

[@oceandivermu]

Our lionfish are quite rare, and they are eaten by both sharks and our giant Javanese Moray eels. These are resident in Mauritius. Both have poisoned flesh as a result and are not eaten locally

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Interesting! Thank you for sharing.

[@dmora2386]

I find it so bizzare when saying 2017, followed by "back then"... In my head I'm like, that wasn't that doesn't feel like 7 years ago. Time is moving too fast.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Right? I was thinking the same thing when I put this together.

[@daszieher]

​@@OceansUnknownwithToddKorttesame

[@TheFishinglegend]

When he told the grouper at 0:47 it was too small I absolutely died XD

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yeah the larger grouper don't have much of a problem eating the Lionfish.

[@leilaclarridge5807]

The thing is that in order to teach the predators how to hunt lionfish, you have to actually introduce them first. They won't know they're edible if you don't give the lionfish to them to taste.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yes very true. We will see in the future what the outcome is on the reefs throughout the Caribbean sea.

[@Joaquin-227]

The Queen Trigger, my favorite aquarium pet I've ever had. They are voracious eaters. The one in this video is huge. Thanks so much for this video it's been a long time since I've seen one!

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Are they difficult to keep alive in a tank? Do they show any aggressive behavior?

[@Joaquin-227]

@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte I had mine a long time ago she was tiny the size of a quarter. I lost her after hurricane Andrew. We had no power for a long time. She would bite my finger and would not let go. So tiny yet so aggressive. She would eat everything I gave her, she especially loved shrimp. I've never forgotten that little beast. She had quite the personality. Some people say triggers are much like dogs.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

WOW! Thats crazy. Thanks for sharing.

[@Anna-fw7lm]

They weren't debating about killing rats during a plague...

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

hahahaha

[@nothingbutstatic]

Assume you already know triggerfish feed on other spiny venomous creatures like the queen of thorns starfish and urchins, so if any predator is going to figure out how to get past the lionfish's defenses, triggerfish already have some of the skills

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Good point. Yeah triggerfish are pretty aggressive. Do you think they will start to hunt and kill Lionfish on their own?

[@nothingbutstatic]

Lionfish are more capable of evading attacks and fighting back than the triggerfish's other prey with venomous spines, so might be tough, but not out of the realm of possibility.

[@catherinehubbard1167]

I think all of this is excellent, both with the sharks and with the triggerfish. Perhaps that grouper was a better too small or got some spine from the speared lionfish. Fish are turning out to be smarter than we knew and there are an increasing number of examples of different species, even different phyla (like gobies and shrimp) working together for safety or hunting. Like with ravens - which can find carcasses they cannot open - transferring their cooperative behavior from wolves to human hunters, these fish are highly motivated to learn a new behavior that gets them food.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Awesome comment! Thank you for writing this!

[@scubateacher]

Avid lionfish hunter here. It’s not a good idea to feed wildlife. From eels to snappers, groupers and sharks that all of the sudden only follow divers, to more stressful scenarios where you have to stop hunting because there’s a problem from these practices. Today, even Florida salt water anglers that take tourists out fishing are reporting incidence in sharks and other larger pelagic fish attacking a fish on the line while the angler attempts to land the fish. The norm now is for a portion of the fish to have a chunk eaten off already before it’s out of the water. This isn’t normal behavior and it’s likely a result of a learned behavior associated with feeding. Just one example of why experts are correct when they recommend not feeding wildlife. My 2 cents. Cheers!!!

[@scubateacher]

Forgot to mention. I recommend using a hard plastic container to keep your lionfish catch. There are many options out there. Zookeeper is one of the best. Hope this helps. Cheers!

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yes this is so true. I plan on making a video on the same reefs in Belize comparing 2014 to 2022. You can see a significant difference in the behavior between those 2 years I have on video. Its a night and day difference.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Oh yeah the zookeepers are great! Can you tell us all how good the lionfish is to eat? I have never tried one, but I have heard they are really good.

[@EyeSeeThruYou]

I understand the reluctance by many to "encourage" spear fishing divers to feed the non-native Lionfish to various native fish species. The worry here being behavioral alteration in the fish in the form of habituation. Most wildlife scientists would discourage this activity because individual fish may then associate "food" to "diver," altering the fish's behaviour around other humans coming into that environment. Loss of natural fear of humans may then result in injury or death at the hands of unscrupulous humans who would then bait habituated fish closer in for an easy kill (because humans just can't resist cheating). I did have a concern that fish attempting to eat the lionfish might be accidentally injected by a venomous spine in the first attempts to take the Lionfish from the divers. There is, as the narrator alludes, a learning curve for native species to learn how to successfully kill and then disarm non-native species like Lionfish. My own observations with Great blue heron catching, repositioning, and breaking the venomous spines off Plecostemus before consuming the fish might be insightful here. I'm not convinced that spear fishing divers are actually teaching native fish to hunt and consume Lionfish simply by offering them dead Lionfish to eat. Rather, I suspect that, at least initially, it's just limited to habituation of the fish chosing to respond to a food cue. Clearly, an experiment is required to tease out whether this hypothesis can be supported or debunked, with replication necessary for a definitive answer. Anyone game for that?

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

All good points!

[@EyeSeeThruYou]

​@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortteWanting to expand dialog and understanding to protect the ecosystems ❤

[@adambohlin5112]

This is not controversial at all, the lionfish is an invasive species in the Atlantic ocean and can we get sharks, groupers, triggerfish or any other native predator to see them as food so much the better, because the lionfish is destroying the fry/small species of native coral fish at an alarming rate and fish are better and more efficient hunters both considering time, money than divers ofc it is good with the divers too but that is a losing battle since lionfish reproduce much faster than all of the professional divers put together.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Good comment, thanks for sharing!

[@bendalton5221]

Doesn't surprise me, a Trigger will eat anything..... seriously though, one of almost all species of Triggerfish favorite things to eat are sea urchins, which have lots of spines... I would guess that it is associated the spines of the lion fish with the spines on an urchin

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Good point on the sea urchin!

[@ericwilliams2546]

I feel like we wouldn't bat an eye if fish were taking the dead lionfish from another animal. I think as long as the predators aren't associating humans as food, or becoming dependent on humans for food, I don't see why anyone should worry. In the end if some of the higher level predators start associating the lionfish as a food source it will help the reefs in the long term. I don't normally advocate killing an animal for no reason and honestly it's not the lionfishes fault it is there, it's humans fault, but they do so much damage to the reef they can't be left alone. I feel bad for the thousands upon thousands of lionfish killed but it's less of a threat then to lose the entire reef's ecosystem.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Thank you for leaving this comment! Well said.

[@Megan-bw2ep]

I like how that one fish patiently waited for its lionfish meal

[@lil----lil]

May I ask: how come the poisonous needles/spines from the lionfish have NO effect on the bigger fish? Thank U.

[@NomenClature-o8s]

1:46 it clearly had an effect on that fish

[@messagegoeshere741]

Maybe like a wasp or bee sting. Its hurts but its not deadly.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Larger fish and sharks can handle the venom in the spines.

[@paulrippcord506]

I just assumed that triggerfish which eat sea urchins in wild would have no problem with lionfish that has even milder spines.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Makes sense

[@PinkyFingerPedalStrike]

Do we follow the groupers and sharks to make sure eating the lionfish doesn't harm them later?

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Thats a good question. I don't know anyone that has.

[@G31M1]

„The triggerfish is so beautiful“ It has a face only a mother could love lmao

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yeah the markings are nice on this fish!

[@johnh539]

We can't answer your question. What happened to the grouper did the spiks injure it? The trigger fish nibbled at the exposed flesh could it eat a live lion fish defending itself? Have they started discouraging people feeding them to sharks because they die.(Years ago that might have been thought of as a bonos). A fish will always investigate a potencial meal but they don't know the danger an invasive fish offers.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

The Grouper left the scene. The Grouper is too small, it will eat the Lionfish when it gets older. The Triggerfish will not eat the Lionfish whole. Like you mentioned, it knew to look for the exposed flesh. Sharks eat the Lionfish in the Red Sea.

[@Exquailibur]

The main reason lion fish are a problem isnt that they are toxic its that they are great at hunting, many fish have spines so most predators have ways of getting around them the main issue is lionfish look pretty unique so a lot of predators dont have that instinct to go after them like they do other fish. Lionfish are wiping out small fish not big ones.

[@greenran5]

Not enough sarkies left here, but interestingly still normal levels of lionfish​@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte

[@tomkortte6093]

Excellent educational video.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Exquailibur]

I dont think its a problem, its not like there are enough divers to support the fish and it just shows them a new food source, fish are smarter then people realize. Trigger fish are actually quite capable of learning and if it realizes it can catch lionfish it might start going for them, they can be surprisingly predatory.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Good comment! Thanks for sharing!

[@barbarakortte7427]

Very interesting. Educational on all levels.

[@robynelks9134]

Hi I think it’s great teaching these fish that they can actually eat the lion fish since it’s an invasive species , then they can help defend the reef against the lion fish 🙂👍❤️🇦🇺

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Hopefully it works.

[@randomname1251]

I just got basic PADI certified, and my first couple of dives were AMAZING! I’d really like to get lion fish certified and go on some hunting dives

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Welcome to the dive club! Hope you have lots of fun dives ahead of you!

[@randomname1251]

@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte thanks! The dive instructor said it would be addicting, and I guess he was right! Can’t wait to dive again 😊

[@andrewvarcoe4741]

Could be running out of decent food to catch, so maybe it is taking advantage of the spear fishing. Also, many people think fish stay in one location forever, it is possible this trigger fish hunts along the coast and stays near fishermen and divers for this reason? Maybe even had a diver feed it once, so it learned the tiger fish is eatable and remembers the divers give out free easy meals.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Great comment! Thanks for writing this. I hope a lot of people read this.

[@stimpen12]

Is the shark and fish immune to the lion fish poison?

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Larger fish and sharks can handle the venom from the Lionfish.

[@garyhart3408]

Good idea to get rid of an invasive species.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

We won't will this battle. The Lionfish are taking over the deep water.

[@Renville80]

Since lion fish are apparently good eating, it might be worth trying to push for a bounty program at a level that encourages commercial diving and harvesting operations. Take the pressure off other species commonly targeted for the dinner table.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Lionfish should be marketed as a luxury item for the weathy. Its costly to catch the fish, so the high market price would market well.

[@gerryhenderson6100]

What controversy? It is invasive with no known enemies. Teach the sharks and anything else that will irradicate the threat.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Some think feeding the sharks is changing shark behavior too much and the sharks are not hunting the Lionfish on their own.

[@alexanderattaie]

when sharks eat up a lionfish, do they ever get stuck by the barbs internally?

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Sharks and large fish can handle the spines.

[@brionfranks478]

As long as it does not involve the introduction of another invasive species to combat the Lionfish I do not object.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yeah, we don't need another invasive species.

[@builtbroken3558]

Eventually the other fish will realize/learn to eat the lionfish. They just need time. Nature has a way of self-balancing.

[@joshuacook2]

That's true, but with all the other environmental changes, like coral bleaching, many species are not able to adapt fast enough. It's too much all at once.

[@builtbroken3558]

@@joshuacook2 Too much for what? For all species to adapt? Of course. Nature is competitive, and if you can't adapt fast enough, your form stops being alive. Other life evolves to take your place. I'll bet sharks are going to be fine, they have a pretty good record.

[@kenba96]

does the shark and other fish not react to the venom from the lionfish?

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

The sharks and bigger fish can tolerate the venom.

[@cjod33]

I still find it fascinating that an animal can be protected and endangered in one area and actively hunted in another. I understand why, still, i find it fascinating thiugh.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yeah good point!

[@sandroaces]

Does the spines hurt them

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

The fish know to stay away from the spines. That is where the venom is.

[@delunamarco]

Don't they get hurt by the poison barbs ?

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Ths fish know to stay away from the barbs.

[@duncanluciak5516]

Is the consensus not to feed the fish now?

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Some think feeding the sharks is only damaging the behavior. Shark now look to divers for a free handout, and the sharks are not hunting the lionfish on their own.

[@stuntmasta305]

I always thought groupers were the most intelligent fish. I’ve seen groupers hunt and corner lion fish. Surprised you see this behavior on a trigger fish. It is even aware of its spines. Amazing

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yeah grouper will show you where the lionfish is so you can spear them.

[@craigwalters]

You say this is a controversal practice, but you don't say why. Maybe you could explain a bit more about who frowns on it and why

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

It teaches sharks to associate divers with food, and some believe the sharks are not hunting the Lionfish on their own. The sharks are not circling divers on the reefs in Belize to see if you are spearing Lionfish. This did not happen 8 years ago. It makes for fun diving to see the sharks, so that is good for tourism. But some people think we are changing too much with the behavior of sharks by feeding the Lionfish to the sharks.

[@RalphFDM]

The trigger fish is very territorial, it can even kill the most venomous starfish, the queen of thorns

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yeah tough fish for sure

[@zakbook15]

isnt it obvious the grouper tried eating it whole, the lion fish has spines aint gunna work so well is it

[@3rdeyebrowski511]

It should be obvious lol. Hindsight is 20/20

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Larger Grouper don't have a problem eating the fish, I think this one was just too small.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

This Grouper was too small. When it gets bigger it will eat the Lionfish.

[@elliotcho4823]

From personal experience, enuring sharks, or any other potentially aggressive fish, to take lionfish from a spear can have rather stark unintended consequences… My teammates and I hunt lionfish regularly, at depths between 40 and 60 meters, racking up significant decompression obligations. At one point a few years back, we had to abandon a favourite hunting spot as we were being harassed, constantly, by a 2m nurse shark that we believe had learned to associate not only divers, but yellow pole spears too, with free meals. Fending off it’s continual advances for 40 minutes grew not only tiresome, but put the team at risk of violating the decompression schedule. That is a dangerous situation… We’ve recently had a few divers have unnerving encounters with sizeable free swimming green morays seemingly looking for handouts… Again, no bueno… I am of them mind that divers should lookout for the reef ecosystem by hunting as many lionfish as possible, but please do so in a responsible way and take your haul home to eat… They are great for ceviche and make really nice fish-n-chips!

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yes, you are so right about the yellow pole. Some grouper look for the diver with the yellow spear. Thank you for this comment and the information. Do you notice more lionfish at deeper depths than at recreational dive limits?

[@elliotcho4823]

@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte - Where I’m at, Utila Honduras, the shallower reefs are heavily hunted so that segment of the lionfish population seems to be fairly in check. Since there’s only a handful of divers that regularly tech dive here, it’s easier to get a significant haul down deep. A few years back we participated in a research project where the goal was to sample and age the lionfish population from the shallows down to 100m depths to see if there a correlation between depth and age and/or size - the theory being tested that lionfish tend to migrate downward as the mature. It seems there is an aggregation level, here, on the sand shelf that surrounds the island at depths between 35m to 70m. Below that, on the deep walls, they’re harder to find… Though, our deepest sighting was a bit too deep to be hunting at around 130m!

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Ive been diving in Honduras. I know what you mean. Our dive master speared some lionfish for the resort to make ceviche.

[@ronnie926]

Doesn't it has poisonous spikes? I don't think it's a good idea

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yes the spines have venom. The triggerfish is looking for the flesh part.

[@Titus-as-the-Roman]

Triggerfish in general just doesn't give a *hit. There's not many other fish that'll mess around with a Trigger.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yeah right?! They are pretty tough fish!

[@HerveMendell]

The grouper won't, eat it because it would have to eat the poisonous barbs when it swallows it whole, but the trigger fish can just rip it apart and avoid the barbs

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Larger grouper will eat the Lionfish. I think this one was too small.

[@ChristopherCharbonneau-tg6tq]

Familiarity dulls the fear. The more they see them the less they fear them and see them as a food they should learn to predate.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Good point!

[@pangarans]

Could it be that they know that the lion fish is dead and therefore being exposed itself to getting stung?

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yes that is part of it. The trigger also knows to look for the exposed flesh. They feed a lot of shark in this area of Cuba. Maybe the trigger learned to follow the divers?

[@jkbc]

The problem is all those fish will come to unsuspecting divers begging for foods, some of them can be aggressive

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

True. Some people think feeding the sharks and fish is only damaging their behavior. Sharks now look to divers for a free handout, and the sharks are not hunting the lionfish on their own. The fish and sharks need to hunt and eat the Lionfish or it will be the only fish left on the reef.

[@lucienarcos-palma3834]

i dont think its a problem, you help animals to adapt to a new threat, there is no problem with that.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Good point, thanks for sharing!

[@tomkortte6093]

Great video

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Glad you enjoyed it.

[@larrybremer4930]

Looks like its Pterois Volitans Lionfish we are seeing. That was either a pretty small lionfish or a huge trigger.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

This was shot in Cuba. The lionfish was on the smaller side.

[@aigomorla]

Fish are learning divers = slot machines with high payout. They are eatting what the divers give them, because they see them as safe, like how when a aquarium fish learns you, they always swim to the glass when they see you because they know its time for feeding. Eventually they will learn to eat the lionfish naturally, but its most definitely due to the divers influence. But in reef tanks, one of the most annoying thing is getting your fish to eat what you want them to eat. Sometimes it happens over time with routine, other times the fish will die before it eats something its not native to. This is why most of us quarintine the fish not just for observation, but to also start training it to eat the foods you want them to eat. As for is it OK? absolutely... There is no otherway to get rid of an invasive species other then using a natual species to hunt it out of exinction before the other members of the ecosystem falls off due to it.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Really interesting points you made about the aquarium fish. Thank you for sharing!

[@Strykenine]

The invasive fish needs to be kept under control. The idea that it might be a bad habit to form looking for food from humans, but the lionfish is a human-related problem too. That triggerfish was beautiful.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yeah the triggerfish is definitely beautiful. Such a cool fish.

[@larryhudson6136]

I'm originally from Florida, so yes and no. It's acceptable for Trigger fish to be habituated to eating lionfish. Trigger fish have strong sharp human-like teeth, and can easily tear up lionfish. Trigger fish seem to be resistant to lionfish fin venom also. So as long as the reef fish are resistant or immune to lionfish fin venom, then habituating them to eat lionfish is a good thing. Sharks, not so much. It would be better if sharks naturally learned to eat lionfish. When divers feed fish to sharks, the sharks tend to habituate, to being fed by the divers, and see divers and swimmers as food sources. So avoid feeding lionfish to sharks and barracuda on spears. Spear the lionfish, expelled the lionfish from the spear, and let it float. Let the predatory fish choose the wounded or dead lionfish naturally... don't fed it to them on the spear.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

All good points! Thank you for sharing!

[@jangzhang7323]

Astounding to see that sharks and queen triggerfish are able to eat lionfish without consequences of the venom.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

The sharks are big enough to not be bothered by the venom.

[@eternaldreamerofsleep]

it’s freeding frenzy all over again

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yep sure is.

[@MorganBrown]

Second dive vid from Cuba ive seen in the past week or so. Maybe it's a sign 😂

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

It's a must see spot to dive. Jardines De Le Reina or Gardens of the Queen. Well preserved Eco-system.

[@MorganBrown]

@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte Can you recommend the best city for a diving home base? Do you have to fly from USA to Havana, or are there direct flights from the USA to the diving bases?

[@TheRasta4ri]

I've fed sea urchins to fish skin diving in Jamaica & Grenada the people in soubise eat the sea urchins roasted & call it sea eggs

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yeah fish really like the sea urchins huh?!

[@TheRasta4ri]

@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte fish like any kind of chum

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yeah true, even like dolphin and whale poop.

[@snicklefritzed]

I feel like the difference in the way the triggerfish and grouper eat their food has a lot to do with why one ate it and the other did not. Triggerfish have enough teeth and a small enough mouth that allows them to peck and take small niblets at a time. This combined with the fact that it can probably detect the fish is now dead and spines disarmed, it has no problem going after it. However, you can still see it swimming backwards sometimes to still keep the spines at bay and have access to the meaty bits. Like it still knows it's a threat, just not a live one. The grouper doesn't have the teeth necessary to take those small niblets, if I'm not mistaken it's basically a vacuum eater and has a handful of teeth to hold onto the fish, but not chunk bits off. So to the grouper, those spines attached to the carcass still pose a huge threat. That's my take on it anyways :). Solid footage though, that Triggerfish is beautiful.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Good comment. Thank you! The Grouper was too young to eat a lionfish. The larger Grouper eat them whole with no problem.

[@omahanb1]

I haven't seen trout in Walmart for a long time. If the Lion fish tastes anything like trout I'm in.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

I heard they are really good eating

[@pengen_gantinama]

But aren't lionfish venomous? Is it safe to feed it to other fish?

[@ericwilliams2546]

the spines are, the fish isn't. Some of those sharks, eels, and other fish seem to be able to eat the lionfish without being hurt by the spines poke. I think the toxin it uses just causes pain, it won't actually kill anything past a certain size.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

It might burn a little coming out. LOL Like really hot hot sauce!

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Larger fish like sharks and Grouper can handle the venom.

[@YampaYak-vd1xo]

Eating venom is harmless. Eating poison is not.

[@cosmicpsyops4529]

Why don't you think the trigger fish could reasonably be expected to associate you, a large mammal, with access to feed? Time aside, the fish's brain could recognize a behavioral scheme of predation anyway, and would not even need to know anything about you necessarily to see the lionfish is incapacitated anyway.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Some people think feeding the sharks is only damaging their behavior. Sharks now look to divers for a free handout, and the sharks are not hunting the lionfish on their own. The fish and sharks need to hunt and eat the Lionfish or it will be the only fish left on the reef.

[@replicant_7774]

Had a friend that had a lionfish and a parrot fish in the same tank. The parrot ate the lion.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Oh wow that is crazy!

[@evilsharkey8954]

How do you protect the predatory fish from the venomous spines? Aren’t they still venomous even when the lion fish is freshly killed? I know I would never trust anyone who offered me a salad made of fresh cut stinging nettles.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Larger fish and sharks can handle the venom in the spines.

[@tcsmagicbox]

You can't have human divers to all the work. It would be better if local predators can help keep the lionfish population under control.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yes we need the predators to take over.

[@karlepaul6632]

Seems like Lion Fish are always shown as an invasive species, so where exactly are they native from?

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Red Sea and I thin the Indio Pacific. Grouper and Sharks already know to eat them in those areas.

[@brandonbao7097]

Triggerfish is general are just very opportunistic feeders and will eat just about anything that looks like an easy meal.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yeah they are pretty aggressive huh?!

[@Eliel7230]

Perhaps the trigger fish saw an oppotunity for revenge, knowing that the lion fish is a predator.

[@Mobileithelp]

I always thought trigger fish just chewed on corral

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Parrotfish chew on the coral. Or really the algae on the coral.

[@Mobileithelp]

@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte never realise they’d eat meat.

[@mikecimerian6913]

Setting up exotic table for native fish serves Gaia right.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

The lionfish should be marketed as a high end expensive fish, attracting the wealthy and creating a demand.

[@mikecimerian6913]

@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte Ironic but true. Some really awful things are praised as delicacies. I tried snake wine once. I had an iodine taste in my mouth for hours and it was detestable, yet it is praised as a delicacy.

[@The_Savage_Wombat]

Those spines are a deterrent even after being speared.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yep sure are!

[@mikecimerian6913]

Corral crunchers may have enough armor on their mouth.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

It went for the exposed flesh and stayed away from the spines.

[@mikecimerian6913]

@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte A pouting mouth may be advantageous over a gaping maw in this case. Fishes are smart in their own ways. Urchins are well armored but they have predators. I will watch again and pay attention to its line of attack. :) Ah it may be the dorsal spikes. They get stung on their palate. The trigger fish shred and nibbles but avoids the dorsal spikes.

[@KnowledgeNerd123]

Don't lionfish have poisonous barbs along their spine?

[@marnerbroman]

They don't care. They seem to know where to bite.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yes that is why most fish do not eat the Lionfish. The Lionfish eats all the fish. The math is upside down, that is why the Eco-system is all mess up in the Caribbean. The fish know not to eat the spines.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yeah they know not to touch the spines. They are looking for the white meat from where the spear hit the fish.

[@dawuid1491]

pestification of life on full display

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yep sure is.

[@emulove777]

I think this is awesome lionfish are an vase of species and this is all the humans fault. We need to train other animals to eat them. So we can protect the ecosystem with other fish on the hunt.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Hopefully the other fish will learn to eat the Lionfish. If not, it till only be lionfish on the reefs in the Caribbean Sea.

[@fabreezem8174]

BAD IDEA! Please know that by feeding sharks ANY fish, you're teaching them to come to spearfishermen expecting a meal, this can lead to diver injury or death alternatively we're forced to injure the sharks to defend ourselves.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yep, it might be good for dive tourism though.

[@tobiasrietveld3819]

Looks more like the triggers were mostly just being territorial.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Yeah maybe part of what is going on here. Maybe the trigger is fed up with the Lionfish and it is some kind of territorial revenge?

[@luxordeathbed]

This might be a mankind and nature must work together scenario. Every tool in the tool box must be used. Dont give a rats ass about ethics or what not. If you want the reef fish saved, measures must be made.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Well said! Thank you for your opinion.

[@DeliahAyala.2.14.91.]

I find it acceptable. The invasive lionfish are destroying echosystems. Because of humans, lionfish ended up there. So why wouldnt we try to fix it? All these animals have brains, sharks are super smart, they are allowed to learn from us. Does it make it unsafe for future divers? Hmmmmmm my theory is, when you enter the ocean, you enter the foodchain. As a diver, you need to be prepared regardless. Do your good work

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Well said, thank you!

[@clifcoleman3675]

if they are invasive i see no problem with either keeping it or feeding other fish on the reef with it. If you teach the other reef fish to eat the lionfish then maybe it will lessen their numbers and they wouldnt be such an issue.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Some people think feeding the sharks is only damaging their behavior. Sharks now look to divers for a free handout, and the sharks are not hunting the lionfish on their own. The fish and sharks need to hunt and eat the Lionfish or it will be the only fish left on the reef.

[@rustyfan89]

Before this video the only fish I saw eat a lionfish was a grouper

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Thats what I was thinking when I was shooting this video in Cuba.

[@neilh9442]

Give a fish a fish, and it eats for the day. Teach a fish to fish and it'll hunt down invasives. 🐟 🐠 🐡

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Oh very clever comment!!! I have hundreds of comments on my instagram video of this triggerfish and nobody thought of this comment! Nice job!

[@deatherutts]

You know what you should do human's let nature take care of itself

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

We created a mess.

[@deatherutts]

@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte Hey before man what was their nature and what happened 2 time's before man came extermination of a lot of animal's yet look earth is still here life is still here nature can take care of itself just need's sometime to do it

[@evilgonkeldurr556]

okay slayqueen triggerfish purr 💅

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

You bet! The queen slayer of the ocean! Move over Games Of Thrones....

[@nightlightabcd]

I really don't see how this could be controversial!

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Feeding sharks and Grouper change the behavior to the point where they see divers as an opportunity for food. Some think feeding the sharks is not teaching them to hunt and eat the fish.

[@AllAboutIsrael311]

I think it’s best not to feed fish and interfere with their lives. We are privileged to spend time in their world and I try not to do anything to change it other than remove trash. You can see that in all my channel videos, i just film and observe. And the last thing you want is to train them that divers are a source of food. These are wild animals and can be unpredictable. As to invasive species like Lionfish, I think it’s best to just remove them from the ocean and do as you wish with them.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

How do you remove them from the ocean? That is the whole problem here.

[@zeake13]

#1 the Trigger fish was hungry. #2 Trigger fish identifies as a shark.

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Ha ha ha ha, clever comment!

[@paulboring9053]

Yes it is acceptable!!!!

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Ok we have a vote for acceptable. Thank you!

[@Cody-bc7oj]

Knowledge is power teach the fish

[@systeminoperative8790]

is it safe to feed them to fish, I thought they are poison

[@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte]

Just the spines have venom, the meat is not dangerous.