Is it SINFUL to Watch MMA?

Is it sinful to watch MMA? In this episode, Trent examines Fr. Mike Schmitz's arguments against MMA and reveals when it is sinful for Christians to watch this sport.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
00:35 What is MMA?
01:50 Is it wrong for Christians to watch MMA?
02:24 Father Mike's position on watching MMA and Trent's response
06:31 Main objection to watching MMA and Trent's response
08:50 The Church's view on this
10:30 TRENT'S FINAL THOUGHTS
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[@fathermikeschmitz4355]

When I saw my face in the thumbnail, I thought, “Oh no…Trent is going to verbally and logically give me a severe beat down…”. But you were kind. And I totally agree with you. I concede….AKA “tap out”. 😂

[@frankharet8865]

Fr Mike - u r absolutely the best - thank you, thank you, thank you for all u do for the Church

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

God bless Father! Thank you both for being awesome!

[@coinfishmedia]

I loved boxing my whole life and even delved into it in my youth. Your videos made me re-examine some things Fr. Mike. I don’t have a clear opinion on this topic but growing in my Faith is the most important thing to me today. So as someone striving to grow in humility, Fr. Mike inspires me with a clear-cut knockout in humility on this one. 👊🏼

[@JohnBaran-kw5jf]

Father Mike = future saint

[@jims512]

“Oh no…Trent is going to verbally and logically give me a severe beat down…”. It was Trent’s rebuttal, Father, not Laura’s.

[@bl4ckdr4gontv93]

Moral of the story: Even the bible says that the UFC's Power slap sucks

[@guitarded2524]

Goated comment

[@thatrandomproject6652]

😂

[@austynstephens9263]

LMAO

[@michaelanthony4750]

loooooool

[@roobear5357]

I reckon you and father Mike will just have to settle this in the octagon😮

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

Lol

[@ServusDei.777]

lmaoo

[@TheDondajonhon46]

I got Father Mike.

[@gabrielmedina2480]

I'd pay to see that 😂

[@JohnBaran-kw5jf]

I'd have to bet on Father Mike. I heard he's like super ripped.

[@themartialartsmonk352]

Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle Psalm 144:1

[@Zygomatic_Bolt]

A warrior in a garden is better than a gardener in a war -Some dude 🗿

[@Devoted_Catholic777]

Yea that has to do with war not fighting innocent men bloody for entertainment...

[@animgreat2719]

Spiritual Battle Overall

[@user-rn1ws5id8h]

That doesn’t apply to sport and entertainment. It’s a distraction from the true warfare between the righteous and the evil. Enjoy what you like, but don’t kid yourself.

[@monicag.k.tambajong]

​@@user-rn1ws5id8hthis is odd, lumping sport as a whole as something evil. Don't we humans need sport to keep our bodies healthy?

[@dan_m7774]

Many years ago on a boy scout trip we went to a charity event where a hockey game was between the police and priests. I was shocked that fights broke out. Not sure if I was more shocked that someone would punch a priest, or a priest would punch someone.

[@kenofken9458]

Back then most of those priests were Irish. Fist fights weren't personal for those dudes. It's just what they did instead of desert after Thanksgiving dinner!🤣

[@carlosux]

thats pretty cool. they have basketball tournaments here. i love seeing our priests breaking ankles. 😂

[@Waterboy5152]

I would pay for that.

[@MasonB88]

That's hockey 🏒 😄

[@ayamayamblackwhite3190]

Priest conducted tortures & murder of thousands of people during the Inquisitions period. Witch trials conducted by both Catholic & Protestants will make MMA look like a toddlers game 😁🤣🤣

[@themartialartsmonk352]

Great video! As a Benedictine Monk and Preist but also a BJJ Purple Belt; Judo and Kempo Brown Belt and a SAMBO guy I full agree with you!!!

[@afonsoguedes517]

Hi, I'm a portuguese dominican aspirant (in 2 months I'll enter as postulant) and as a current bjj purple belt, I hope they let me continuing to train!

[@crasnicul3371]

gigachad

[@ChungGuss]

Based

[@themartialartsmonk352]

@@afonsoguedes517 that’s AWSOME! I will say it took me years to get my superiors to let me train again, but I love every minute of it. I also want to share the best advice I got before I entered the novitiate which is “you are going to want to leave that’s natural. Don’t leave until you have wanted to leave every single day for six months because the time as a novice is meant to be very difficult because you have to learn a whole new way of living.”

[@slow9573]

Benedictine? God bless you.

[@davivman6009]

Best point here was distinguishing the motives of the viewer from the intrinsic morality of the the content. Combat sports like MMA, boxing, fencing, judo, etc. all have rules in place to avoid serious injury or death, and are conducted by willing participants. If you are watching to admire the physical ability of athletes that have trained extensively, that is very different than delighting in the hope of seeing some blood.

[@Svetty00]

I find it hard to ignore the motives of the people that make the promos. They string together clips of fighters who have already lost the fight and are waiting for the ref to stop the damage while they are unable to defend intelligently.

[@Svetty00]

I was thinking of UFC of course. Ironically I think the "Street Beefs" channel has more integrity despite the name of it. From what I've seen, those fighters are always respectful to each other and the organizers are much more diligent about preventing unnecessary injury.

[@danc2531]

@@Svetty00 I am not a huge fan of the way most MMA organizations market the matches, but that is different from judging the maorality of the "fights" themselves. I also believe there are good and bad refs, but this is the case with any sport. The stakes are just a bit higher. Street Beefs started by attempting to get people to handle their differences in the "pit," instead of via more violent means. And, the idea was to drop the "beef" when it was over. I believe it's noble idea, if we step into the shoes of those who live in those areas. As far as refs, and how things are at this time, I haven't really watched lately. :)

[@Svetty00]

@@danc2531 I don't really mind the refs, but the promo editors are intentionally glorifying the most unsavory parts of the fights. I also doubt that Dana White cares about running the UFC to a high moral standard. He's clearly just doing whatever he can to make the most money, which often involves promoting fighters with bad attitude over the most skilled and deserving fighters. He also runs Power Slap. I'd be really surprised if Trent came to the defense of those 'fights'. Sure, fights could possibly be morally above board, but I think defending "MMA in general" while playing UFC clips in the background is a bit like defending rap "beats" while showcasing rappers who promote sin with their lyrics. Yes, rap beats are pretty much morally neutral. Yes rap lyrics can be morally good. But yes there are a lot of rappers who promote sin, so don't include them in the video of you defending rap beats and morally good rap.

[@user-rn1ws5id8h]

It’s not righteous and therefore sinful. Sport and entertainment is a great evil which distracts the minds from the real enemy.

[@joker18524]

i didn’t appreciate seeing Volk get slept literally right at the beginning of the video 😢

[@kingofnpcs2547]

Volkanovski is the epitome of a modernist makhachev lives more like traditional Christian than he does. Plus volk is friends with a literal aggressive sodomite so he deserves to be punished.

[@tombrady1021]

yeah that hurt me lmao

[@guitarded2524]

He will be redeemed tonight

[@guitarded2524]

He will be redeemed tonight

[@TheCudlitz]

​@@guitarded2524 Nah, he got slept again

[@raphaelwiedmer6007]

I‘m catholic and I love MMA as a sport. Unfortunately there‘s a lot of trash talk, cursing and other unnecessary stuff when it comes to fighting but I think no sport is perfect. I totally agree it’s fine as long as we know where to draw the line. Thank you for your great video.

[@chad_hominem]

You can also watch the competition without watching or consuming the fight promotion aspect of it.

[@raphaelwiedmer6007]

@@chad_hominem yes👍

[@AspynDotZip]

@@chad_hominemi never watch the promotion especially in ufc it’s needlessly hateful imo like just compete and leave. all the hate for literally no reason makes no sense to me

[@normang3668]

I feel like a lot of that stuff is a relic of a bygone era of the sport that has unfortunately still hung around; certain people in charge of the UFC like Dana White have been around MMA since the beginning, and still think they need sensationalism to sell pay-per-views because it worked in the past... The current fighters are far more skilled and athletic than the fighters of twenty or thirty years ago, and I think that is resonating with a lot of new fans. As someone who really enjoys watching MMA, I enjoy it for the sport and athleticism of it, not the violence. It's refreshing to see the amount of mutual respect a lot of fighters have nowadays.@@AspynDotZip

[@kiarce3]

That’s why Wonder boy is the role model 😌

[@johnalbent]

God was a wrestler...He wrestled with Jacob.

[@StanleyPinchak]

Jacob was too proud to tap and got his thigh dislocated / torn. But my coach always says it takes two knuckle heads to cause an injury. The one who doesn't tap and the one who keeps applying the lock even when he knows he has the other knucklehead dead to rights.

[@yaraal-yahya2576]

Embarrassing God

[@nsparacino]

And lost. He couldn't win so had to use his magic powers to dislocate a hip. Jacob was a savage

[@berengerburkhart4080]

@@nsparacino He didn't use magic powers lmao he used Divine strength, it's a different thing. Also ofc Jacob was a savage, he was the Patriarch of the Israelites.

[@joeband7316]

I've followed the sport for about 18 years. One problem with it is it desensitizes society to violence. When I first saw, it was utterly shocking to me and those around me. It was not accepted in society, indeed it was illegal in many places. But now, it's meh - you can even show it at the beginning of a Catholic video without any warnings - once upon a time you would have been banned! Then WMMA appeared: two half naked women beating each other to bloody pulps. That too was shocking at first but is now meh. Other combat sports are now emerging which are going the same way, e.g. bareknuckle variants, leagues with less/no rules etc. And they too are going the same way.

[@KoopstaKlicca]

Not to speak if no rules leagues, but often an argument I hear about bareknuckle boxing *is* that it's safer.

[@awreckingball]

@@KoopstaKlicca I think the jury is out on that right now. 10-15 years ago that claim was made a lot more often. But now there's been at least one MMA death and more and more cases of CT, that point of view is becoming less clear cut.

[@KoopstaKlicca]

@@awreckingball Ah I see, I'm not a martial arts fan really, so I wouldn't know

[@ghengiskhan9308]

That's right and I say that as a life long martial artist. Society has perverted these arts like any other art form.

[@wpridgen4853]

The bare knuckle leagues with no rules came first, modern MMA is a product of compromise for legal reasons. American MMA is firmly rooted in the soil of vale tudo fights from Brazil.

[@Vic2point0]

I have zero dogs in this fight (no pun intended). I'm an atheist who doesn't care about MMA at all. But I really appreciate that you're willing to address these questions I feel a lot of people might shy away from!

[@user-lj3ku5yd1h]

Your probably not actually an atheist tho. Believing in God is showed through how you act.

[@therealong]

@Vic2point0 Yes, but what about those (esp. teenagers) being influenced by watching these kinds of gestures, copying and assimilating them from what they visually see, and then they happen to get involved in harmful fights i.e. at schools and so on?

[@Vic2point0]

@@user-lj3ku5yd1h I don't believe that any god exists. I don't actively believe "there is no god" either, but I'd think you'd have to believe in at least one god's existence to not be atheist.

[@user-lj3ku5yd1h]

Vic my man it flew right over your head. I’m saying that the way the Bible describes if you believe in God or not is how you act. So some people say “I don’t believe in a God” however they act as if God exists without even realizing it. There a good person and they repent. Then there are others who say “I believe in God” but are actually so far away from God and have no relationship with the Good. So it’s not actually as simple as an intellectual believe as some might think. It’s just way deeper then that.

[@Vic2point0]

@@user-lj3ku5yd1h No, I just act like there's an objective morality (because I can sense it), which doesn't necessarily imply a god's existence.

[@armanpartamian997]

Well said. Congrats on starting your jiujitsu journey. I've been training about 8 years - currently a purple belt. Unfortunately, I've had to ease way back on training. I'll be 52 this year, and it's started to take a toll on the body. I don't recover nearly as fast as I used to! Thanks again for your excellent content!

[@chad_hominem]

Never been more sore after a workout than I am after a bjj class 😂

[@CortesCatolicos-td1go]

Any image I see of MMA only comes to mind of Pius X's Catechism. Pope Saint Pius X in relation to Duels 418 - Is dueling also prohibited in the fifth Commandment? A: Yes, the fifth commandment also prohibits dueling, because dueling participates in the malice of suicide and homicide, and anyone who voluntarily takes part in it, even if it is as a simple spectator, is excommunicated. 419 - Is dueling also prohibited when the danger of death is excluded? A: Yes, this duel is also prohibited, because not only cannot we kill, but we cannot even voluntarily harm ourselves or others.

[@chad_hominem]

Well martial arts is not dueling so I guess all you've done is brought up a moot point & false equivalent.

[@parkwalks8562]

I think it might be considered a form of dueling. It certainly falls under the definition.

[@StanleyPinchak]

​@@parkwalks8562So all forms of sport that could result in injury are banned under that logic

[@konstantins1385]

In his moral theology, McHugh says one cannot engage in violent sports that ruin one's health. I don't see how this is not a violent sport that ruins people's health. The CTE risk in this sport is elevated. This is also why I stopped watching football in 2009.

[@animgreat2719]

​@@konstantins1385you mean American football right ?

[@gsmoove9315]

Funny thing is that Martial Artists are some of the kindest people you will meet in basically all the different types of sport. In my experience doing traditional team sports as a kid and then doing martial arts starting in my adolescence, traditional sports were always so cliquey and big egos were stroked, not discouraged. In martial arts, we basically all just try to help each other and the occasional big ego is the exception, not the rule. It is a pretty big difference in culture. I know that surprises people since the point I will concede is that the goal of MA is to find the minimum threshold of pain that causes your opponent to quit. Most of us want to practice our craft in the safest way possible.

[@ghengiskhan9308]

Martial arts really is something you have to do to understand.

[@rico14]

Most great fighters have humongous egos. They just know how to control it better than most people.

[@ghengiskhan9308]

@@rico14 that goes for every great athlete.

[@smlyangz1829]

@@rico14I guess it’s cause they know their the best right?

[@rico14]

@@ghengiskhan9308 not to the same extent though. I think it’s especially important for fighting, because you only have yourself in there.

[@nomassgoer8350]

We need a Trent Fr. Mike debate on pints!

[@berwynsigns4115]

What would they debate? It would probably have to be something lighthearted because obviously both are faithful Catholics.

[@PaulTesta]

Trent, thanks for your intelligent assessment of this topic. Great job!

[@MNskins11]

I personally think MMA goes too far. I have a hard time watching it. HOWEVER, I do believe some people are born warriors. And warriors are gonna warrior. If society can provide a safe, stable and ordered environment where by these people can release their aggressive nature, I think it’s a win.

[@martinciglenecki526]

Another home run! The biggest credit I can give you is that after listening to you for so long, I can actually reason things on my own (because you've shown me how to think well) and come to the same conclusions as you on my own. Thanks for all you do, Trent. God bless. 😊

[@SuperTommox]

The difference you pointed out between the kinds of violence is spot on. I trained MMA with my best friends for year, and we never felt humiliated. Actually it teached me the gravity of violence. I've seen fighters cry when they knoced their opponent out cold. Violence is a pretty big word.

[@ShiniGuraiJoker]

If I understand your statement correctly, for it to be sinful, it would need to humiliate and shame you?

[@ghengiskhan9308]

​@@ShiniGuraiJokerit's a tool like anything else it can be used for good and evil and you can take it to the highest where its no longer good. But that's nearly with anything else. The problems lies in perversion society has perverted multiple arts martial arts is one of them

[@ShiniGuraiJoker]

@@ghengiskhan9308 Perverted how?

[@CabaMatutador]

The thing is the intention. The most dangerous sport I can think of is motorsports. The goal is to finish the race ahead of everybody. Sure, accidents can happen, but they are that, accidents. In MMA, the very intention is to cause harm to your opponent. Very unjustified. That is different from training self-defense. The name says it, the intention is to learn how to defend yourself from an aggressor, not to cause harm

[@TexasGabe11]

It’s call tackle football. The intent is to tackle, tackling causes injury. Do you see why this idealistic standard won’t work? It’s all about discernment and intent.

[@cdngravy844]

Why is it that consensual causing of pain in the context of the highest level of a sport is inherently bad?

[@ManlyServant]

yes,violence in football is no difference than violence in comedy,sometimes comedian beat each other a little,but thats only means to achieve comedy,but in mma,violence AND destruction (no matter how unpredictable,such as face being cut like whats happen recently in fight of DDP and sean strickland,or even death) are BOTH means and Purpose,mma is unjustifiable,its not christian,its not Christlike

[@cdngravy844]

@@ManlyServant why?

[@ManlyServant]

very agree,i used to be fan of mma fights,and i want to be professional fighter,and still now,but just not in the sense as to want to fight in ufc,i just want to be great in fight so i can defend myself and family and people,his video is misleading christian into becoming barbarians from ancient roman who beat each other up in a stadium,and then they jump around cheering for it when someonw face being literally CUT,bone BROKEN,if mma is justifiable to watch then its justifiable to do,why?,because you are not watching a fictional character fighting each other,you are watching real human beating each other up

[@steveb5331]

All young men should experience situations where someone is trying to dominate them and learn how to respond. This is accomplished through sports like MMA, boxing, wrestling, football, etc. also they learn to control their aggression and use it under a rule set. This gives the young man confidence and some ability to defend his family if he needs to.

[@vincentthendean7713]

Perfect Timing! This question popped up for me just a couple of days ago after not thinking about it for years when Fr. Mike's video first came out.

[@danc2531]

I loved this episode! I grew up in a rough area during my early teen years (until I was about twenty actually). I was jumped frequently. I began taking up traditional martial arts, boxing and wrestling. I got quite good. Obviously. it only helped me so much when there were multiple attackers. Even after my family was able to move to a better location, I still enjoyed partaking in martial arts. Someone once compared it to "physical chess," and I fully agree with it. It is also a feeling that you don't get from too many other places. None of your worries from life exist once you enter the dojo (at least for me). During sparring, or rolling, this is especially the case. It is almost serene, with all sounds sights, etc. being absent except for the "opponent" (many of times my friends) in front of me. Unfortunately, I tore my labrum quite severely (270 degree tear) in BJJ, and I haven't been able to fully heal like professional athletes seem to be able to. lol Watching boxing, MMA, Karate Combat, etc. is a nice way to continue to at least watch this physical kind of "chess." When you can see exactly how someone set up a certain combo or submission, it is really neat. It is completely different than seeing a street altercation with a couple of drunk guys, where the focus is to simply to harm another human being. I am not sure if I am making much sense here. Anyway, thank you again for the video!

[@Avimuse77]

MMA's a tricky subject, you've covered the topic proper well!

[@anglicanaesthetics]

Fascinating. This is a low-stakes sort of conversation, and I'm here for it lol. Here's what I'd say, for what it's worth. I agree with Fr. Mike. Violence itself is only a reality in a fallen world. So in the examples you brought up, Trent, violence to restrain a criminal (or even retributive violence to punish a criminal) is a response which shows, in various ways, the dignity of a human being *in light of* the realities of the Fall. In the case of retributive violence, retribution shows the dignity of the victim by communicating, in the life of the perpetrator, the severity of the offense; the severity of the punishment is an icon of the severity of the extent to which the criminal violated someone else's dignity. Yet in both of these cases, violence is a response to a fallen reality. The *celebration* of a fallen reality or the delight in a fallen reality as a form of entertainment, however, makes a spectacle of that of which there ought to be an element of sorrow and/or sobriety. This is also why, btw, I think hockey is more objectionable. I'm not the biggest fan of football, but at least there I can see how tackling isn't intrinsically intended to hurt someone (whereas MMA is); it's not *intended* to cause pain. My brothers and I used to tackle each other all the time to the ground as a form of play, and we weren't at all trying to hurt each other (well...except when we were fighting, and then we'd rightly receive the ire of our parents).

[@user-lj3ku5yd1h]

There was a violent war in heaven before any fall so. We just don’t totally know or understand everything.

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

Understandable perspective.

[@flightless8903]

@@user-lj3ku5yd1hIt wasn’t a violent war. It was a war of the WILLS❤

[@TheCounselofTrent]

Excellent food for thought. The distinction between intending harm and forseeing harm is one I may address mor ein the future. For now, one thing that stirs my thinking is this: Activity 1 Is intended to cause injury to another person in order to win whereas activity 2 only forees the injury and isn't strictly necessary but the injury is usually more severe. Which is worse? To compare, instead of MMA suppose the activity was one where two players try to spin each other until the other passes out and loses. I mean this is causing some injury (I wouldn't do it all the time) and trying to shut the other person's body down to win, but it would definitely be safer than football or rugby. In any case, something I'm thinking about.

[@vincentthendean7713]

@@TheCounselofTrent Is principle of double effect applicable here?

[@Ju4n1gn4c10]

Great and thoughtful conversation!

[@someguyontheinternet2729]

As someone who started to get hook at combat sports in particular MMA jist recently, this video is a great analysis Trent. Hopefully you'll do a video exploring the philosophy of martial arts or combat sports in general and its relation to the Christian faith. I think this will be interesting

[@Nobile-Cavaliere]

An interesting not about the second latern council, it bans both jousts AND tournaments. The main event at a tournament in the 12th century was not the joust but rather the Mêlée. This was a large mock battle that took place between groups of mounted knights armed not with lance, but with blunted swords and concussive weapons. The main goal of this event was, aside from being a spectacle, was the capturing of enemy knights to gain their ransom. Their horse, armor, and possibly a large sum of money as well. Anyway, I can't imagine this ban lasted for very long. The late 12th century is something of a golden age for tournaments and sees the rise of knights like Sir William Marshal who earned his fortune as a tournament knight and was reported to have taken some 300 knights captive in tournaments during his life.

[@PioLisieux]

Glad to see this video. I just started following MMA a few months ago. Thanks Trent

[@someguyontheinternet2729]

Me too, feels like Trent knows what's on my mind. I started following MMA last December and was also thinking about its relation to the Christian faith

[@ManlyServant]

watching DDP cut sean strickland face in ufc fight is nothing christian,at all,in mma violence and destruction is BOTH means and purpose,but in football,or in other sport, violence is just means just like people in comedy in tv sometimes beat each other to make people laugh a bit,you cant PREFER to have heaven where so many thing went peaceful,even lion lie down with the sheep,and then pay tens of dollars to watch men beating each other up violently all for the sake of money or ego-centric desires (wanting to be champion in beating other men,or so on),mma is not christian,we should only watch men beating each other if its about our soldier fighting people who invade or attack us,we shoul only do mma if its for training,health,self defense,or just hobby,ufc is not christlike at all

[@lukeism2]

@@ManlyServant did you watch that fight though? I’m pretty sure that cut was from an illegal headbutt by ddp

[@ManlyServant]

@@lukeism2 its hard to recover after being a big mma fan,all those mma reels still goes around my reels,so i just keep getting the news,but i dont watch it entirely,now i mostly watch it to train my mind

[@robideals685]

2:59 enter the personal side of the opinion. Regardless, learning MMA or combat martial arts to defend oneself is fine and quite noble of an effort. Watching MMA for sport, I tend to side with Father Schmitz. I used to be a huge MMA fan before I converted a couple years ago and now I instantly scroll past the highlights, especially of the women clips. While both parties are indeed consenting to the match, what ends up happening is emotions get heated and there's a lot of wickedness and smack talk leading up to the fight, and once he fight happens there's quite often malice behind a lot of the blows (some of which happen well after the knockout). I don't know but the passage keep your eye away from evil things is coming to my mind right now. No one told me to to stop watching either, it was a natural progression. God bless!

[@stcolreplover]

The majority of smack talk is showmanship to sell the fight. I definitely agree women shouldn’t be in combat sports though. With all combat sports from MMA to Football, restrictions are always needed to prevent blood sport.

[@therealong]

@robideals685 Like the old priest that replied to youths about kissing. There wasn't nothing wrong with it, per se, but only in what followed afterwards.

[@cdngravy844]

So if a ufc fight was led up to with respect and ended with respect from both competitors it would be fine in your estimation?

[@AchtungBeccaC]

Women's combat sports, speaking as a woman, are horrific. I don't have much stomach for male combat sports. But when women are involved I find it particularly objectionable.

[@apracity7672]

@@stcolreplover The ends don't justify the means

[@Jehusafec]

Great video! And i love the new format Trent

[@Compulsive-Elk7103]

I have never heard people say its a sin to watch MMA. People just find anything and everything to find that they can ask if its a sin. The Catholic sub reddit is filled with scrupulous members asking if every little thing is a sin

[@roundtable3501]

To be fair though, just because something is a widespread practice in society doesn’t mean it’s licit. This also isn’t some random Catholic laymen, it’s a well-respected priest with a big following saying these things. Also, that’s not my subjective experience with it as a Catholic. It’s more been with boxing because it has been around as an organized sport longer, but I’ve seen plenty of discussions about its morality.

[@Si_Mondo]

​@@roundtable3501In combat sports, all parties are involved *voluntarily* and hence cannot be immoral. Father Mike's use of St Augustine's friend's experience is a false equivalency because the Roman gladiators were *slaves* and thus not participating voluntarily.

[@TotusTuus-jf7qz]

@@Si_Mondo Also, with gladiators, they literally have gladius in their name. Gladiator literally means 'swordsmen.' They are using weapons designed to kill. The risk of death is much higher, and occasionally there were fights to the death. Also, gladiatorial combat had its origins in pagan customs whereby the deaths of the gladiators was a sacrifice for the soul whose funeral they were celebrating. So to some extent it was literally a form of human sacrifice.

[@littledrummergirl_19]

@@Si_Mondo Something being done voluntarily doesn't necessarily make it moral - that's why people have questions about it, which is okay. Consent is important, but not the only important part of it

[@Si_Mondo]

​@@littledrummergirl_19When it comes to two people punching and kicking each other in competition, then the consent involved *does* make it moral. Those questioning as such are moral busybodies who can't fathom that not *all* violence is bad.

[@davitz77]

The main problem when it comes to fighting sports in general is that it involves the **purposeful infliction of pain** on another human FOR the basis of entertainment. I think something like baseball, while people do get injuries, the injuries are not necessary, but contingent. Same with hockey fights. People fighting is contingent and not necessary to hockey. I do like your argument where the objects themselves are not intrinsically evil all the time with the Renaissance painting argument. It is a hard line to draw because some people have made fighting sports into part of their core identity, but I do think it is because these people have had pasts where they crave violence and power rather than the fighting sports being the cause. Overall, the MMA mainstream entertainment scene does promote the purposeful infliction of pain on people, purposeful to cause pain to cause people to submit to pain to lose, for entertainment. MMA itself, like any martial art, is not intrinsically sinful, just the entertainment (especially mainstream entertainment) of it is. I do want to add that the combatants are almost always lovers of violence and mentally deranged as shown by being covered in tattoos. Fr. Mike Schmitz does have the overall core principle correct. Mr. Horn, I do think your overall analysis is also correct to a great extent. Personally, I agree with Fr. Mike Schmitz that fighting must never be reduced to simple entertainment. Only used for purposes of training for defense and as a general exercise and reasonable medical support is ready when needed. Of course, it would be nice if the See of Rome could come with some clarification on modern fighting-sports entertainment. It is good that people do realize that there is a line somewhere.

[@alexrosario1488]

Yeah… I feel he missed the main point, as you just pointed in your first paragraph…

[@ghengiskhan9308]

I think modern mma is been perverted like any other art these days. Humans are just really good in perverting things. I think if we follow father Mike's argument then I guess we shouldn't rewlly do anything because so many sports and arts have been perverted.

[@davidfarias2049]

There's another aspect that needed to be covered and that's that of the parties involved to promote the event. I was going to cover this topic myself in response to some of the things Patrick Madrid said. I agree with your analysis Trent, but I know a lot more can be said about the topic.

[@intermirificanm281]

Great video, thanks! A principle that has helped me discern in this regard is Chesterton's saying along the lines of "The blow is not wrong because it hurts, but because it humiliates."

[@joshua_wherley]

Fr Mike makes excellent points. I have been thinking about whether I should watch football given how much is being revealed about CTE in former players. Am I creating a demand for a harmful product? One can certainly make that case.

[@animgreat2719]

I think American football its indeed full of harmfulvtechniques, there is evidence it has caused grave health isues as a result of playing it for years

[@sidneygray51]

Football players are massive compared to the 1950's etc because of modern drugs, and they obliterate each other. Combat sports avoided this because of weight classes.

[@joshua_wherley]

@@sidneygray51 good points, although combat sports haven't totally avoided CTE. It's still there, although not as common as it is in former NFL players.

[@donutsrgood4491]

You also shouldn't watch Rugby or Hockey because those sports have violence? Also let's not act like you watch football bro the people willing to say this stuff are the most casual fans. It's easy to make yourself appear feel more moraly righteous than others. I barley watch MMA and think Fr Mike made a ridiculous argument. It's a freaking sport not a death match. The fact he compared MMA to gladiator fights is beyond ridiculous. You score points and try to defeat you opponent through either making the ref stop the fight or scoring enough points to win. That's not comparable to a death match at a coliseum. If you take what he says serious you shouldn't watch any sports because you could make an argument any form of competition is driven by use being in a fallen world.

[@donutsrgood4491]

The reason it makes me mad isn't because I love MMA but because it turns away new converts that like MMA. It seems so agianst logic and reason to hold a position like that it makes our faith appear stupid. It's also like a superficial stand like people opposing something they already don't like to appear morally superior than others. Like I'm a true Christian kind of thing and other aren't. Fr Mike seems like he's larping as a early church father pretending like MMA is close to gladiator fighting just give me a break.

[@ThatElephantSeal]

Some here are saying that this is a low stakes argument, but I disagree. A fighting spirit, especially amongst Christian men, is something the church desperately needs MORE of not less. And thats not to say that Fr. Mike is wrong under the context of unwilling participants fighting for entertainment, but if we were to seriously take his objection to its conclusion we would soon find that we would have to give up all forms of competition, lest we "strip the dignity" of another for the sake of entertainment. This is of course absurd amongst people who are choosing to participate willingly. There is a nobility in competition, especially in physical sports that Christians should embrace, not run from for fear of hurting someones feelings.

[@jacobmacdonald4713]

Interesting video , appreciate your thoughts . 🙏

[@heat24]

Omg I asked this in one of the lives, I hope you got this suggestion from that, let’s gooo

[@JGutubez]

I'm with Fr. Mike Schmitz on this one. I don't see that Trent proved his case here. Comparing MMA to boxing, football tackles, hockey fights, etc. and claiming that the violence in MMA is less or on par with other sports doesn't seem to be a very solid foundation on which to build an argument that it is or is not sinful (look at the title of the video) to watch MMA. At the very least, a distinction should be made between the different types of MMA. It seems to me that when most people talk about "MMA" what they really mean is "UFC." I think Trent would be on better ground if he was talking specifically about various martial arts tournaments that tend to be discipline specific (ex: jujitsu, judo, taekwondo, etc.) -- and to be fair the discipline specific notion is somewhat suggested in his comments -- but I don't think supporting UFC is consistent with Catholic views of human dignity.

[@kyler9323]

Not that it is a requirement in order to comment here, but it would have been nice for you to give some arguments or counter-arguments - given the size of your comment.

[@bronsonvann2662]

Agreed. One of the things that I think makes at least some types of MMA inherently immoral would be that it is the goal to cause as much harm to your opponent as possible. In football, the goal is to get the ball from one end to the other, contact is expected, but it’s not necessitated. Same with wrestling even though it causes the most brain injuries, the goal is to subdue the opponent, not cause irreversible brain damage. I’m not expert on the different types of MMA, but you make a good point about how the martial arts tournaments could probably get the human competition aspect without the “intentionally causing irreversible head trauma” aspect.

[@animgreat2719]

I dont see Trents arguments as compelling either

[@JustaGuy-dv9hf]

The goal of mma is to get your opponents to submit like wrestling?​@@bronsonvann2662

[@kyler9323]

@@bronsonvann2662 I don't think we can say the "intention" to cause "harm" is itself immoral. That would exclude hypertrophy training. The intention is to tear down a muscle so that it rebuilds. Sure the reason I hypertrophy train is to get bigger muscles, but I do intend to harm them in the process. I think this is matter needs a "double effect" reasoning process. The longer lasting and deeper the harm, the greater the justification needed to endure it. A monetary benefit could be sufficient, in some cases, if there are little other means of making a living, for example.

[@bhgtree]

It just shows that people within the Church may disagree on subjects that are not defined as dogma, another topic that was debated was smoking. I think that Trent made a central point here indirectly: how to judge something that there is differing opinion about, we have to look at the thing from varying angles and with the help of others. BTW both Fr Mike and Trent are both awesome.

[@seannoll2032]

Love this. I've been considering learning BJJ as a self defense art. Great to hear an intellectual hero like Trent say it's not contrary to the faith.

[@iwillneverreadyourreplysta7489]

Always love Trent’s takes. Another W.

[@kevinchapman148]

I’m not a Christian. I’m an atheist & nihilist, but I follow Trent because I liked his debates with Destiny & Alex and I appreciate his work in engaging those he disagrees with 👍🏾 I’d love to hear him cover the gta 6 trailer too and hear a Christian perspective on the ethics of violent video games.

[@therealong]

kevinchapman Ever thought of having/raising kids and how they will grow up if not earlier introduced to dangers late in life? They assimilate from their environment and act accordingly. That's common sense, not particularly ethics.

[@AidanRKelly]

Thanks for your open-mindedness! Hope you find a life full of truth, goodness, and beauty.

[@TonyKeeh]

That slap game/sport is the perfect example of violence that is unjustified.

[@phoenixsoto7312]

Awesome video, I’ve always wondered about this, me being Christian but also a huge UFC fan

[@JuanDominguez-]

Thanks for the explanation 🙏

[@elliott7630]

I practice MMA, but my only intention for it, is to use it as self-defence or to defend others. I haven’t watched the video yet, så it’ll be nice to see your standpoint.

[@hailarwotanaz5848]

Norwegian?

[@elliott7630]

@@hailarwotanaz5848 Your neighbour to the east (not re*arded one) ;-)

[@elliott7630]

@@hailarwotanaz5848 Nyet! Suecia ;-)

[@hailarwotanaz5848]

@@elliott7630 Svenskjavla 😎

[@elliott7630]

@@hailarwotanaz5848 Acktually ”svenskjävel”. But what can you expect from a petty norwegian(?) MUHAHAHAH!

[@JustUsCrazyBoyz]

Catholic Gamer here! Agree with you against the type of objections lots of boomer Christians make of any form of entertainment.

[@BlackWhite-tx2kb]

It's because of boomers that there are fewer Christians today. And a broke Social Security system (in the U.S.). And the plummeting value of the U.S. Dollar.

[@userJohnSmith]

Yep. Stopped playing GTA years ago because it stopped being cartoonish and started having some reality to it.

[@BornAgainEnglishmanKJV]

Well many videogames are satanic and Christians cannot play them. GTA for example.

[@christianmcleod3614]

I absolutely loved your video. You explained it so well.👍

[@TheHomeWoodShop]

Thanks for the VT Hokie footage! 😊

[@kayleebaginski]

Devout Catholic here, and almost a BJJ Purple belt. I LOVE MMA. It's a wonderful sport and has helped me tremendously in all areas of my life.

[@kayleebaginski]

I train with men and women of all sizes. If you don't feel comfortable rolling, then say "no thank you". @@thevoid7765

[@danc2531]

My older sister and I used to wrestle around a lot as kids. Neither BJJ or wrestling has ever felt erotic to me. I might be the oddball out, but I’d say you’re going to be just fine rolling with them. I’d be more focused on caring for them, in the sense of assuring you’re not being too domineering. If they are amazing, you have no worries, obviously. 👍🏽🙏🏽

[@Noah00G]

​@@thevoid7765it's perfectly okay to say no if you don't feel comfortable rolling with someone. I've seen it happen before and it's usually okay. Someone might see it as rude but in the end, it doesn't matter because if you think that rolling with a woman will cause you to sin then don't do it. I'm curious why you're short with them and give them one word answers, is that because you don't want to approach you and ask? Again not judging, it's perfectly okay to turn people down

[@ghengiskhan9308]

​@@thevoid7765it's not rude but it's our objective to fight our temptations and keep them in check

[@ZEJ999]

Is it a sin to watch WWE?

[@cesarjkd8379]

Thanks Trent! I appreciate this explanation. God bless!

[@Dianadicarta]

Hi Trent! I love your videos! On a similar topic, it would be interesting to see how Catholic teaching applies to activities such as bullfights, sports hunting and so on! Here in Mexico is currently a hot topic!

[@Xymage]

St. Pius V issues a Papal Bull (haha yes) declaring bullfighting unacceptable in 1567, he declared even attending was cause for excommunication. Pope Gregory XIII and Clement VIII limited the ban to clergy and "spectacles taking place on religious holidays" I believe the decrease in limits was it became less of a slaughter and more like we have now with them dodging bulls. Likewise, the Church is fine and even encourages hunting. Sport hunting may be a different story. Hunting is important because it keeps the ecosystem in check (and provides people with food) but trophy hunters and the like can end up hurting the ecosystem. As long as you don't cause unnecessary suffering and avoid damaging the ecosystem I believe you are fine

[@dominicmaciel2032]

Now I want to see an MMA match between Trent Horn and Mike Scmitz

[@gunsgalore7571]

I think when it comes to any kind of sport based on physical fighting, we have to ask what physical fighting is for. It's for defending yourself or others. And so any kind of physical fighting not directly involved in combatting an attacker should be ordered towards helping the people involved increase their skills in being able to do so. This is what most informal spars, whether boxing, wrestling, jiu jitsu, etc. ultimately boil down to: two people want to become better at physical combat, so they practice with each other. The question is where do we draw the line between that and just being entertained by violence. As someone who doesn't watch any professional martial arts, I can freely admit that I do not have the experience needed to make a judgement call.

[@chad_hominem]

There's nothing wrong with enjoying the best/most skilled practitioners of a discipline in the world showcase and test their respective skill sets against one another.

[@gunsgalore7571]

@@chad_hominem That's fair enough - as I said, there's a line somewhere, but I make no claim about where it is.

[@vikingbme97]

Absolutely stoked for this episode. It gave me such a nerdy peace when I heard Trent started practicing MT and BJJ! It gives everyone a good level of discipline that can serve as a springboard for further disciplines, especially spiritual 🤝

[@animgreat2719]

The goals do not justify the means. It requieres more elements to consider. As a Christian im more inclined to think MMA isvwrong by looking at the evidence

[@vikingbme97]

@@animgreat2719 what evidence are you looking at? What would outweigh a community of self improvement and positive competition you can find?

[@BennoKlass]

Such a good video!

[@AlamarianJ]

I’m a blue-collar worker and I know a lot of MMA fans. My knee-jerk reaction would be similar to Fr. Mike’s, because I’ve never known anyone in-person who praised MMA for anything but its violence and brutality. Literally without exception, everyone I know who has talked about why they liked MMA said something I could boil down to “I like watching someone get the **** beat out of them.” I can’t say the same thing about football or soccer or basketball or even hockey. (Not to say I haven’t heard similar thoughts about football and hockey) That’s just a snap judgement. After watching your argument, I think you are right regarding the intrinsic permissibility of MMA.

[@danc2531]

Being a martial artist for most of my life, I’d love to sit down and go over MMA fights with you. I love analyzing the physical chess that takes place. I do agree that many people do watch it for that “bloodlust” factor though…

[@AquinasBased]

Trent i have a question, is it wrong for people to be naked so someone can draw a picture of them for art?

[@zlocesti_djedica]

yo lowkey good question. did not expect it on this video. really good question

[@canalettov]

Hey Trent! Would you mind making a video about Renaissance art and its supposedly objective immodesty? I've always wondered about this topic.

[@Electric_]

Great summary Trent. I would argue too that a nation NEEDS ways to simulate warfare which include rough and violent sports. A nation that eschews any form of violence or structured combat will drive violence underground where it will be unstructured, emasculate the populace and become weaker against foreign threats. Muay Thai developed as a structured sport so that the Thai fighters could practice their form of fighting in war in a safer setting that ensured death and major injury would be acceptably rare. Hockey and football are also types of structured simulated warfare. Humans get passionate about sports because it triggers the same portions of their brains that are stimulated in an actual battle, which is why some fans can get really bent out of shape after their team loses a game. This is particularly pronounced in men’s brains. So I agree with Fr. Mike that there is a limit of acceptability. I agree with the Church that medieval jousting was over the line. But there does have to be combat sports, honor culture (sportsmanship) and team sports for the health of the nation. It’s very unfortunately some people get seriously injured doing these things, but deaths are very rare. In almost every case it is much safer than driving on the highway. I played football, hockey, boxing and BJJ for decades, at fairly high levels, and never had any very serious injuries. If you take these sports away from the youth, especially young men, expect a lot of energy to be poured into societally harmful pursuits and activities.

[@truhoneybadger]

I still struggle with this. In football or rugby the intention of the sport is not to beat up, hurt, or cause pain. It isnt even to dominate another person. The intention is to either score or defend against touchdowns. Tackling, or dominating someone, is an indirect aspect of the main goal. MMA and boxing have the direct intention of dominating another human person. I find that hard to square with personally. I wonder your thoughts?

[@animgreat2719]

You are right MMA its no matter how you see it a brutal practice that endangers human health and live. Also by the evidence it seems contrary to human dignity and the respect due to our body

[@johnmoff9324]

You are correct. I also disagree with Trent on this one.

[@AspynDotZip]

idk growing up playing football many of our guys revel in the fact that they dominate or hurt another person. like literally the whole mindset of a lineman on offense or defense is to dominate the opposition. even at the wide receiver position where the db and wr have to jockey for position with minimal contact, any time where they can just muscle their way to a better spot they will (ie. press coverage). why do you think there are so many fights that break out in football, people rewind injuries like it’s daytime television, and even look up videos of football players getting utterly obliterated. just because the “intention” of the sport is okay doesn’t mean the people that currently participate or watch the sport have a good heart about it. people take what is noble and bastardize it to the point where we have these conversations, and that’s no fault of the sport, but of man’s desire to do evil

[@hectorramirez2943]

I'm with fr Michael on this 👍🙏

[@danc2531]

Look at his pinned post.

[@PhantomRed13]

Great video. I love the thumbnail 🙂

[@BlackWhite-tx2kb]

Someone should start a league where when the contestants are standing up, it's kick-boxing rules, but when someone goes to the ground, there's no-striking-on-ground. That way, you get kick-boxing and grappling, not the slugfest MMA has become.

[@scarmethiusmaximo8735]

I’m a chaplain and a black belt in Bjj, couldn’t agree more

[@honest-fanboy]

I think mma is a bit too violent and risky, specially when women fight I think it's too much. You see those beaten faces and it's just painful and ugly to watch. A women should never have been beaten so much...

[@notdisclosed]

I find it hard to watch gymnastics when they land and destroy their knees, but it's not inherently evil.

[@mikordonez8923]

"It's a you problem, not an MMA problem." Well put. I've been following combat sports my whole life. Sure it may be entertaining, but my main purpose is to keep abreast with modern movesets so that I can properly defend myself and my loved ones from what an attacker might use. I feel that watching MMA educates us on what works and what doesn't if you find yourself up against some random aggressive scumbag armed with a little MMA knowledge. My two boys aged 9 and 11 are learning boxing and judo. They understand that it's for self defense and are not interested in inflicting pain on others. They will walk away from a fight as much as they're able and aren't cornered. We're a Catholic family and attend Mass regularly. I also pray the Rosary everyday. My wife often does too. Thank you for making this video and sharing your balanced opinion. I'm a Fr. Mike fan as well but I find him more rigid than the Catechism of the Catholic Church sometimes (which I've read from cover to cover). God bless you.

[@PioLisieux]

Pardon double dip ... What I like about it is admiring the admirable skill of the pros

[@EddySteel]

Hi Trent, enjoyed the video as per usual - do you have any particular thoughts on Women in combat sports? I find it hard to articulate exactly but as well as just being generally unpleasant to look at, it seems to violate some particular quality of womanhood and its dignity.

[@littleboots9800]

As a woman who did Muay Thai for a few years in the past I struggle with this myself. I do not watch women fight in combat sports like MMA, Boxing, Thai Boxing etc and I find myself having quite a visceral reaction against it. However, when I attempt to reason my way to an explanation of why women in particular shouldn't be competing in such sports I come up short. Beyond finding it distasteful I struggle, although I suspect there may well be a good reason that I'm just not getting.

[@fedmcfederalson]

Hey Trent. Thanks for putting this out. Ever since Father Mike's video I had always felt a bit of stigma when I told people I train MMA. Hopefully this will at least make mainstream Catholic thought a little more open to the idea

[@Cklert]

I'm interested more so in the science behind martial arts. The decisions, what to the throw. Where to put something. What muscles they had to develop. It's like a physical puzzle and a chess game. There is something truly intriguing about watching what the body can do, and its limits.

[@Blockhead140]

It feels wrong to me.

[@bradysim8617]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWbbdaCdbs-NqcUsi=kjD4_tW_MNgiNVky

[@willolol3353]

I believe every Christian should participate in some form of combat sport, not necessarily for competition, but at least to engage with it. It's one of the most effective methods to keep your ego in check and ultimately improve as individuals.

[@Marianodg99]

Nailed it, Trent. NAILED IT!

[@johng7681]

As someone who has trained in several arts, I believe martial arts is a great way to promote human dignity. It's always great to see two fighters compete against each other, then shake hands and hug at the end. The violence is not out of hate. It's out of love for the art. Kano's principal of mutual welfare and benefit are very christian, even if that was not his sole purpose. Yes there is violence but both people improve in their art and become more humble in the process. In most cases those that train hate the idea of being involved in physical confrontation outside training and competing. An added benefit of combat arts is the development of problem solving skills. If you can be patient to solve the problem of being completely dominated by someone more skilled than you, you can also incorporate that same patience and problem solving into reading scripture, making more time for prayer and being more patient with other human beings.

[@JohnLoogleman]

Father Schmidt quotes St Augustine yet St.Augustine argued the case for violence in his 'just war' theory. God decides the morality surrounding violence, not the clergy. I am biased being a long time martial arts and MMA practitioner, who has also used violence as a tool in my occupation. The so called fans who has never trained and drunkenly scream for blood and boo when they are bored are sinful in my humble opinion. I watch the sport through an educated lense and sometimes even find myself wince in empathy. Though these are consenting adults engaging in the highest pursuit of their lifetime passion. The business side is probably what we need to talk about, and even CTE which can effect families down the track. These are issues admittedly. Grappling also gives you a skillset to deal with defending yourself, loved ones and your community, with a larger range of options on the use of force continuum. You can shut down problems without the level of violence that otherwise is necessary to the untrained. You are also more likely to turn the other cheek as you understand in real terms the meaning of live by the sword and die by the sword.

[@ManlyServant]

mike is right,trent is wrong here,watching mma is different than football,two men agreeing to fight each other FOR mere entertainment is different than watching a person just hit each other rarely when doing comedy on tv,so is football,its you trying to watch men really beat each other up for money and fame or some other ego-centric objective vs a man struggle against each other to get a ball to a certain place,violence in football is means,but in mma its both the purpose and means,indeed watching men wrestling each other is justifiable and fun,but wrestling/grappling like bjj is nothing comparable to beating each other up so violently, there is nothing justifiable in calling yourself lovers of peace and wants and prefers peace in heaven but pay tens of dollars to watch men gets bloody fighting each other,mma is simply bad to do,it leads to aggresion,smack talk,and so on,it leads men to care about each other less,you should only watch mma if its for TRAINING or so on as so many of ufc videos are actually free on their channel,i used to be fan of mma,i really want to be a professional fighter before and still now but not in the sense it used to be,may God open your eyes,watching DDP cutting the skin of sean strickland foe entertainment is not of conscience,its not christlike,its not christian

[@Checkmate777]

What point did you make against mma?

[@ManlyServant]

​@@Checkmate777i already write it there,put off the blindfold

[@elgringolobo97]

Great video Trent! While I love Fr. Mike, I also disagree with him regarding MMA, for basically the same reason you do. I also train in BJJ, and being a fan of MMA was a big reason why I started. It's given me a better sense of humility, and a lot of respect for those who are really dedicated to their training. Its also (probably) prevented me from committing several sins, since I am most tempted to sin when I'm being lazy and not doing anything. As for the fighters, some are good role models, but others aren't; same with any other sport. I have noticed that a lot of fighters are Christians, (especially the Brazilians) and I love seeing them be open about their faith and how it has influenced their lives, both inside and outside of the cage.

[@jenniferdaniel9767]

You train at the best gym with the best coaches we’ve ever found! Me & my family love All American! Wish we could still drive that far for my kids jiujitsu.

[@StuartTheScott]

Comment left before watching the video: As an orthodox Christian adjacent practitioner, I love watching MMA. It is simulated warfare where the individual with highest degree of skill and mental acuity takes the victory. In the creed it is stated and prayed that God may have mercy on those in the military. If God can be prayed to every day for the safety of soldiers, of whose very existence is the antithesis of peace, then praying for the success of these warriors seems inconsequential

[@ulyp1567]

Trent, I love the work that you do and think you are an amazing apologist and human being but I agree with Fr. Mike on this one. In my opinion, what makes MMA popular and attracts both men and women is primarily its violence. Yes it’s an art and yes it’s cool to watch but it is a violent spectacle at the end of the day that is not conducive to a vibrant Christian life. People for the most part want to see fights that end in knockouts because that’s more entertaining than watching people wrestle or do jiu jitsu. And I also think the violent nature of the sport simply appeals more to our passions due to our fallen human nature. The UFC would not have gotten as popular as it is simply on the basis of fights that are predominantly jiu jitsu or wrestling based. And Knowing that, knowing that fights that are likely to end in knockouts sell, therefore both fighters and MMA companies try their best to deliver those kinds of results in the way they strategically set up matches. I personally discovered that once I gave up watching MMA my prayer life was deeply enriched because I didn’t have all those violent images bouncing around in my head and I had more time do other things that better nourish my spiritual life and strengthen my relationship with God.

[@cdngravy844]

I think it is more that good striking and distance management is a great way to neutralize somebody’s jiu jitsu or takedowns - but a knockout does look more satisfying/cool than ground stuff

[@timothyfreeman97]

I compete in Thai Boxing. Rosary and brown scapular around my neck as I seal the ring. Signum Crucis on entry and before each round.

[@elgringolobo97]

I heard in some Muay Thai leagues they make you do Buddhist rituals before the fights though, is that true?

[@timothyfreeman97]

@wolfscott1955 the Wai khru Ram Muay. It's more of a cultural thing but it may or may not have religious origins. It's optional, so you don't have to do it. I generally just seal the ring. Where the fighters go to each four posts of the ring and say a little prayer/blessing over each. I strike it three times in the name of the Holy Latin Mass Trinity and then I also make signum council of Trent crucis.

[@zachj61]

Certainly Trent would agree that some things are intrinsically wrong even if all participants are consenting (eg prostitution), even if the viewer has no evil thoughts (watching something vile out of curiosity). Mentioning football and hockey as being violent isn't convincing me away from MMA, since those violent and damaging aspects of those sports ARE to be avoided. Two people sparring or training may have little risk of injury, and in all likelihood are perfectly fine to enjoy, but these high profile matches don't bare the same results. And so MMA itself is not inherently wrong, but some aspects of it may be.

[@aaroncatron2306]

I think there's a difference between the violence of football or hockey and the violence of MMA or boxing. With football and hockey and other sports that are full-contact, the injuries are incidental to how the game is played. The point of football is not to injure someone. But with MMA or boxing, the goal is to cause enough of an injury to knock the person out. I agree that combat sports have merit insofar as they are about the skills displayed, hence sumo or judo or even a karate competition are fine, because they're all about the skills themselves. But since MMA and boxing are ordered toward causing harm--to the point of serious brain injury--then I would say they are immoral.

[@TexasGabe11]

This is idealistic but untrue. Football players try to hurt people. They might not admit it but it happens. And in hockey they literally fight to embarrass each other. All physical sports have an element of trying to hurt or embarrass each other.

[@vikingbme97]

Acting like judo doesn’t have an entire component to it with arm bars and chokes and just saying it’s about “skill” is deliberately cherry picking tbh

[@VACatholic]

@@TexasGabe11 And, by the rules, that's a penalty and they can be removed from the game for intent to injure. Is the same the case in MMA?

[@aaroncatron2306]

@@TexasGabe11 I know this is true. I'm not talking about what happens in practice. I'm talking about how the sport is actually set up, as in what is the stated goal of the activity. The goal of football is not to hurt people. And while sticking it to the QB to get him rattled is an element of how the game is played, it isn't the point of the game, and it can be played without doing it. And if you do it too obviously or in ways that violate the rules, you can be penalized. I'm talking about this in terms of the ordering of the activity and the moral object chosen. Football has as its point to score touchdowns and field goals, with the hitting and tackling being ancillary to that, and there being ways to do that without severely injuring someone (otherwise every time would be too injury depleted to play after a game or two). Boxing and MMA have as one of their stated goals to knock out the other person.

[@TexasGabe11]

@@aaroncatron2306 it’s tackle football, tackling hurts whether you intend to hurt or not. By your logic you should be arguing for flag football to replace tackle football.

[@Will-ge7ri]

“The counsel of Trent said…” quoting yourself isn’t very classy Trent.

[@PaladinJackal]

Many noble things involved in competing in MMA or combat sports in general. Insulting to say it has none honestly. Anyways great video as always Trent keep at the BJJ training and if you ever find your near Navarre Florida come train at our gym!

[@nicolascostello7276]

Phew! I don't know what I'd do, as a Catholic, if you told me I was watching UC 298 (next weekend by the way) to the detriment of my own eternal salvation :) Nice to hear you also train Muay Thai , I didn't know this. I train a little too.

[@Jonathan_214]

The issue isn’t violence or injury, it’s intent. UFC fights aren’t promoted as educational, rather entertainment. So it seems like the primary intent of those competing in non grappling forms of MMA is to injure the opponent and the primary intent of those watching UFC is to be entertained by one person injuring another. Scoring in a UFC fight is directly related to the opponent being injured more often than not. If the intent was educational, why not watch a training video? On the other hand the primary intent of those competing in football is to score, not to injure the opponent. Scoring in football is not directly related to injuring the opponent. The primary intent of watching football is too see your team score more points, not injure the opponent.

[@danc2531]

It really depends on the fighter. I don’t believe that can be used in a general way. I really love watching fighters who show honor in the cage/ring. Lyoto Machida is a great example. He was fully about honor. Watching MMA is much more interesting than a training video because you get to see how things really work. There is a physical chess aspect to it.

[@michaellawlor5625]

I've had 2 cage fights, and 2 kickboxing fights. 👊

[@brandanimations3790]

💪💪💪

[@YarTheWise]

Being strong is dignity. Being weak and defenseless is misery. Men are naturally designed to be strong to enforce order, safety and eliminate threats.

[@TheGringoSalado]

Many of these guys like Sean Strickland have deep spiritual wounds they have to contend with. Prayers they find freedom from the horrors of their past.

[@Sebastian0910]

Love your content trent, but here is the first time I disagree, you are saying that football or other sports can also produce injuries but thats not the point nor goal of those sports, we can virtually get injuries doing basically anything, the difference is that in football for example the match is won by the team who scores the most points, in mma is basically via who inflicts more damage to the other fighter, so the goal of MMA IS to produce pain and hurt the other person, which I think does affect Human dignity. I say this as a person who used to watch a lot of mma and even today is a sport that gets me hyped but I do believe that it goes against christian morals

[@IronBoxing]

As a boxer I think Trent analysis is right on and I’ve never felt like my Human dignity was affected.

[@user-or4ut2qi3q]

I wonder how the crusaders would have answered this question.

[@zlocesti_djedica]

right. some people just look for sin in every little thing. Young man need violent sports, preferably football where there is a lot of teamwork and brotherhood.

[@dannydonnelly8198]

Great arguement

[@Restless318]

you are so cool Trent god bless you and family