Is it time to FLUX? Octopus Intelligent GO Vs FLUX which is better for me?

There's lots of money to be saved by being on the right tariff which suits you best , even at different times of the year. Octopus allows you to swap tariffs without penalty. Even back and forth if you want .
This means in winter you can be on the best import tariff when you need most energy from the grid but I'm summer when you have most solar and can export it, you can swap to the best tariff for exporting.
is it worth it though? My example is for my numbers and system. Yours will be different as will your energy usage , we're all unique.
Hopefully this video helps those interested in the comparison decide what's best for them.
And yes there's lots of numbers here and I could've made it simpler using different numbers but I chose this route as most people know their solar generation and export values.
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System / Components
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Solar config
PV Ja Solar 9.2kwp
14X280w (3.68kw Solis)
8X300w (2.0kw Solaredge)
4x450w Solis string 1
3x370w (2.5kw) Solis string 2
6 x 410w Trina new garden PV
Myenergi Zappi 1, Eddi and Hub
Battery:
Victron Multiplus II 48/5000
5 x Pylontech Us3000C
EVs:
Mini Electric Cooper SE Level 3 in Midnight black
ESoul First Edition 64kwh in Neptune Blue

[@alancwright]

My brain started hurting at 6:17, glad you went through the calculations but i agree, unless you are super careful you could end up losing out. Stick to the fixed, you know exactly where you are, especially if your EV needs increase.

[@duffman9]

Thanks for that breakdown, it confirms my hunch to stay with intelligent octopus. Just got solar, batteries and heat pump to go with 3 electric cars doing approx 4000 miles a month between them. Also a new smart meter as the old one recorded double at the 30 minute interval than monthly. Still waiting on my first bill with all these changes and gas meter removed. I have been waiting on getting it all in and settled before crunching the numbers in a spreadsheet just using back of the envelope calculations. So far exceedingly happy with the solar. Heat pump, I don’t think I will know until winter or even spring. My figures are even more unreliable as I had a car plugged in on the granny cable while waiting on the export payments being setup. The feeling of charging on sunshine (ignoring the cost of it all)

[@Jaw0lf]

I am using my battery in the evening when solar drops, for cooking and running all my tech! The Tesla Powerwall outputs most of the solar to the grid, having filled up on the 7.5p overnight tariff. For me the Intelligent Octopus Go is ideal.

[@Goodchappy]

Nigel, you are very clever to work all this out. I have been on Flux since December 2023 and it seems to be working well for me but 3 (6) different rates makes it so complicated. I think I will switch to Octopus Intelligent or Go in October when I rely more on the grid. What I will say is that I have paid Octopus £12 in the last year, yes my direct debit is £1 and my account will be about £200 in credit at the end of June. I manually export from my Libby between 4 and 7, exporting about 6kW in the peak rate period....unless I forget to stop it and export the full 10kW. My Old 4.5kW Solax then hopefully carries me through to the next day of solar 😊

[@EVPuzzle]

It's blooming complicated , you really need to know your numbers ..... In theory I'm giving up 7.5p for every kWh import on intelligent but gaining on all my battery export . I'm not a fan of working the battery too hard though and risk using peak rates

[@EVPuzzle]

Just noticed you said solax and libbi, 2 battery systems? How are they getting on with each other ?

[@Goodchappy]

@EVPuzzle Good question. They don't communicate with each other and the resulting behaviour can be very random. When it comes to powering the air fryer for example, either or both will provide power but if just the Solax does, the Libbi tends to have a nap till more than 3kW is required. They will cross charge from each other which is so wasteful and in the winter when I force charge the Libbi, I have to force charge the Solax at the same time otherwise the Solax gets flattened. I'm not impressed by the local company who installed the Libbi as they knew I had the Solax but made no attempt to make sure both systems would work together. The Solax is much quicker to respond to demand, the Libbi is very sloppy and the data on the App is inaccurate, particularly the export figure. Both Solax and MyEnergi customer support is attrocious from my experience.

[@EVPuzzle]

@@Goodchappy that's sad to hear but not unsurprising on how they integrate. I've heard most people say it's challenging . If Myenergi implemented more options changeable by app or API you could control it more with export limit , or I think it should be possible . I've thought about adding a Libbi myself as theres a cheap one going spare locally but in reality it's easier to upgrade my Victron

[@timmeadows6579]

Hi Nigel, Good description of all the factors you need to consider to make a change like this - and I agree with your conclusion. Whilst you may make a few pounds more, the hassle in managing it all will make that seem like a big cost to change. I followed your export advice, and am now on IOG and fixed export, and the management of the home energy is SOOOO much easier this year. No trying to juggle what to turn on or off to use up all the solar, just use what you need overnight, and export the rest. Even if I'm missing a few pounds, the simplicity is worth it! Keep going with the videos.

[@jeff4493]

Thanks Nigel Another very interesting and thought provoking video. One factor not mentioned are the objectives behind choosing a tariff, for some people it may not all be about the money. We love the principle of supporting the grid by day, specially at peak and maximising import at night when there is less carbon on the grid. For us with 2 EVs, air - water heat pump, air-air heat pump ( for summer air con), Tesla Powerwall 2, and solar we have still managed to end up in net credit over the course of the year so are well pleased with that. Also for us charging EVs at night in a time window is a lot less hassle than depending on solar export during the day.

[@terrymackenzie6784]

I couldn't make Flux work either, too much risk on bad weather and I'm doing more long distance car trips. With Intelligent GO you don't need to change anything for different weather or car usage

[@EVPuzzle]

I agree, intelligent is much easier

[@alisterg3582]

Good video - thanks. Intresting to see the Terms and Conditions changes they have just dropped regarding Low Carbon Technology. Seems to be on either tarrif now we have to agree to sign over control of Solar / Batteries and Heat Pump for Octopus to control as they see fit.

[@adrianflower3230]

Joined flux in April - With a 10KWh battery storage that is full by around 11am, solar exports most of the day - don't have an EV and house load is low. At 4 pm I export around 4-5 KWh from the battery along with any other surplus solar. So far I've exported 1354 KWh & have been credited £247.21 giving an average rate of 18.25p for export. I chose not to recharge the battery at off peak as with conversion losses and import rate, I didn't think it worth the hassle. My battery doesn't support Intelligent flux, (12 w facing and 7 E facing 340w panels with a Solis 5kw Hybrid & 2x Puredrive II DC batteries) so I'll stay with this for the rest of the summer.

[@edwardpickering9006]

Surely your intro music should have been, "Should I flux or should I go..." - not sure it The Clash would allow it mind!!!😊

[@EVPuzzle]

That's what I was thinking got to go now 🫢

[@OVB_NL]

Another great video. I've considered a similar scenario and I must admit that the level of complexity to manage it all increases quite considerably to be able to truly benefit from Flux. Life is easy and simple with Intelligent Go and most people I think can configure their cars, battery, water storage, etc with this in mind...doing the same on Flux does make it more complicated in my view and the 'risk' of dipping into the peak charges when you don't intend to do so seems higher. Happy to stay on Intelligent Go for now but happy to keep monitoring it an seeing how others get on 🙂

[@steve_787]

My scaffolding went up today and panels to be installed tomorrow! I'm already on Intelligent Go, so think I'll stick to that with the fixed 15p export while I get used to the system. G99 approval had no export limit so can make use of the full 8kW on the invert should I ever change tariff. Your videos have been helping me a lot to get to this point!

[@Joe-lb8qn]

NIce. I have a 5Kw inverter so whilst i dont think theres a limit on my G99 I am restricted anyway. Quite a bit of clipping at the moment however hopefully the payback will be early and late in the year when i get much more from my panels than if i had panels that matched the inverter. A more powerful inverter would be better but that wasnt up for consideration at install time for reasons that escape me now. Possibly should have been.

[@steve_787]

@@Joe-lb8qn I've oversized the invert a bit as I have the option to add another 10 or so panels later on but wanted to max out the house roof to start with (theory being that if I need scaffold I may as well make the most of it and there's a couple of vent tiles that need attention). Provided all the panels fit, I'll have an 8.9kWp array but it's spread out over East, South & North so will never really get anywhere near that in practice. But will be interesting to see how close I get to the system clipping, just a shame I think I've missed the best/longest days this year by a week! Hay-ho, always next year and can then see how much head room there is left in the inverter.

[@EVPuzzle]

Glad you're on the way , the solar fin starts now. Glad I've helped inspire you

[@Joe-lb8qn]

@@steve_787 I don't think there's a chance your system will clip. I have a friend with 9kw split 50 50 EW and he's rarely had clipping with 3.6 inverter (shortly to be upgrade to 5 long story)

[@steve_787]

​@@EVPuzzle I just need to start looking into the world of Home Assistant so deeper into the rabbit hole I go 😂

[@southwestsellers5475]

Have been on Flux for two summers and Go from October to March each year. Do not import anything between March and October. Peak Flux export two years ago was 37.99p per kwh will be down to 22.38p from 1st July 2024. Can export at 6Kwhs in reality it is about 5.7kwhs, I note your standing charge is 47.85p ours is 65.12p. If Flux export rates keep falling think Agile will be the way forward for future summers, so can take advantage of near zero or negative import prices to fill the battery and export earlier in the day when the batteries are full.

[@AkbarMuhammad-n4i]

We have around 8kwp with 4 X US5000 (19.2kw) and tend to alternate between Go and Flux (running Go for the longer cheap rate between Sep to Mar, and Flux for the other months). I’ve found it works quite well during the warmer sunnier months where I’m net being paid due to the use of stored energy and what the panels are producing, plus export payments. Last year was our first full year using this approach. We are not low users of elec as a family, with gross electricity consumed being around 8000kwh, our net consumption from grid however is around 5000kwh (400-600kwh per month depending on time of year), with 7000kwh provided from solar. We exported around 3600kwh which generated around £683 most of which was flux related. Our £ electricity usage was £946, reduced to £263 for the year by the time we factor in export payments. Interesting video Nigel, be interested to see which route you go!

[@EVPuzzle]

I'll update you in June or July's monthly video 👍

[@jameswestcott4191]

I think you’ve demonstrated the complex calculations required to optimise your energy usage. I also tried to factor in the wear and tear on the kit and came to the same conclusion as you. The energy companies aren’t paying anywhere near enough to cover the cost and hassle. Best to stick to self consumption, sell back any excess during the summer months and time shift energy consumption, eg. EV / battery charging, to cheap overnight tariff.

[@EVPuzzle]

It's all about the battery export imo Surprisingly that may well justify an over sized battery as well as oversized solar

[@jameswestcott4191]

@@EVPuzzleoversize the solar as the cost is minimal compared to the overall installation costs and always worth having more for winter months. I don’t think it’s worth it for the battery, it’ll never pay for itself but a battery is worth it to get through the expensive evenings when there’s no solar.

[@EVPuzzle]

@@jameswestcott4191previously I would've agreed but prices have dropped , I'm looking at adding 3.5kwh at £800

[@jameswestcott4191]

Maybe I’m getting my calculations wrong…. If you export at 15p and charge the battery at 7.5p and use a 3.5kwh battery costing £800 that’s roughly 3000 cycles or half the battery life to get your money back. That’s not including inverter costs & repairs. Doesn’t seem worth it to me or am I missing something?

[@EVPuzzle]

@@jameswestcott4191 extra battery would be to help export at peak rates , 25p currently , charged on solar , dumped out at 25p For me it's not about the money tbh it's about being able to adjust to whatever happens in the market

[@andrewwright1200]

I have no EV, and Intelligent Flux is a big winner for me during summer, average export per kWh is running 26.7p for 31kWh a day. Looking to move to COSY for the winter when generation drops below daily usage.

[@nolandan1]

I agree with you - Flux import overnight is too expensive (how can it be twice the Octopus Go rate?!) Agile outgoing is too cheap (how can fixed at 15p be considerably better than agile almost ALL the time. IF fixed is a smoothed out price (i.e. 15p is a reasonable average over a 3 month period), then why are the agile rates rarely as much as 15p? surely this means either the fixed is subsidised, or that the spread on the agile tariff is too wide. I genuinely think that agile should be the best available tariff AND it should be the hardest to use. In theory ALL the other rates should derive from the wholesale price, so how can the intelligent GO price be under the agile import price most of the time? Again - is the spread on the agile import too great? or is something else subsidising the GO price? For me, somehow I've ended up with Agile for import and Flux for export - which suits me well, because I use Home Assistant to import energy when it's cheap automatically, and I export during the Flux peak (and of course whenever the battery is sitting at 100%). Realistically at the moment, this means that I don't import a huge amount (why bother if the import price is around 15p?) except on the price plunge days. On a sunny day like today, I exported over 30kwh (today, import = 43p and export was £5.86). What I would love would be an Agile rate with a tighter spread, so that it can compete with GO on the import prices and Flux on the export. Then I'd be able to help balance the grid and earn a small commission to do so.

[@EVPuzzle]

Agile rates of export being less than 15p makes me think fixed export prices will reduce soon

[@dougbamford]

Intelligent Flux in the Summer, Go in the Winter for us. New tariffs coming out all the time. Hoping to get Intelligent Go in the Autumn if our EV charger (Givenergy) is compatible by then.

[@smartazz]

Interesting thank you I’m currently just using every KwH that I produce and storing any excess.

[@EVPuzzle]

Since moving to export it is easier not consuming and there's no rank up/down on the battery which I like

[@ahooks]

Great video! With all the exporting from the batteries you do, do you have any concerns about shortening the lifespan of the batteries at all?

[@AkbarMuhammad-n4i]

Inevitably it will shorten the lifespan through charge/discharge cycles. However, I look at it as that is what I’ve bought the batteries for. By the time they’re ready for the bin there will likely be better, cheaper batteries out there in the market.

[@geoffreycoan]

I’m staying on Agile at the moment, not worth it enough to go to Flux this summer. But trying to go onto IOF for the better export rate

[@SolarJourneyWithMatt]

I swap from Flux to Go and back again depending on the time of the year. Flux from March(ish) to October(ish) then Go for the winter months. Don't have a charger or car compatible with IOG though, which might be good for all the year.

[@richardwilkinson4883]

Interesting video as usual - I have just had my carbon offset meter installed, paying 10p a kilowatt happy days....suggest you take a look..it would make a great video.

[@EverydayLife621]

You would be better off with Utilita (with no standing charge, albeit in the summer)?, maybe???

[@EVPuzzle]

Absolutely NOT, can honestly say I wouldn't be better off even if octopus were more expensive , can't imagine ever leaving octopus as they're too consistent too creative and just too good. A low price elsewhere for a year isnt enough any more

[@EVPuzzle]

Just checked , really expensive energy so they've just hidden the standing charge cost it seems . Really hate this sort of headline stuff , much better to be just be simple and straight forward

[@ram64man]

Flux is an American style tariff which they want to push out everywhere come 2030, this is why eco7 rate and time must mandatory to remain , if they get there w at we will also have minimum bills of 15 pounds per day known as minimum use which replaces daily charge metre rate which by the way eats into peak rate as well to get the minum bill the idea being array sizing isn’t allowed to be more than you need eg net zero than net positive, cases like this are already happening in oz nsw and they want it here that’s why we have to get vocal demand mps keep just two rates peak rate will hit millions with higher bills just because there get home and want to eat

[@peterseddon8363]

Just had my email from Octopus telling me my GO cheap rate is going down to 8.5p and I get an extra hour 4:30 to 5:30 from July 1st, I'm on the old FIT scheme so don't want to use the export tariff.

[@EVPuzzle]

Deemed export is all you lose not the generation part of you go export . Extra hour is needed , 4 was stingy imo

[@timoliver8940]

Nigel - Mixergy Water heating - my tank is only 100ltr and as well as mains input I can import via my Eddi. Problem is my tank is heating to 80C via the Eddi before it cuts out. Raised this with Mixergy and MyEnergy at the EE North Show in May and between them they decided my Mixergy was at fault and needed to have the high temperature cut off adjusted down and they kindly sent me the instructions in an email how to adjust the setting officially….. now the problem is that the plumber who did the new pipework when they installed the Mixergy tank has taken one pipe so close to the controller box cover I cannot get the cover off to access the adjuster! Now I’m doing the same as you regarding the tank sterilizations - manually changing the sterilization day so I only carry that out monthly. Really is a pity that daily at the moment the top of the tank shows 80C / 100% but the bottom is only getting to 42C - I would love it to get over 50C so I could sterilize the tank using the Eddi at this time of the year as it heats the tank way hotter than needed for a sterilization to occur from the solar. I’m sure that Mixergy could do it by a software update for those heating by solar diversion of by ASHP input.

[@CaptainProton1]

I didn't think you could be on Intelligent go tariff and still get the export at £0.15 kWh?

[@EVPuzzle]

Yes this is a standard option many have

[@SuperJCBDigger]

Did you take into account how much it would cost to refill the battery overnight on Intelligent if you went for the final option, otherwise it will affect the calculation as the export gain from flushing the battery would only be 7.5p a KW, not the 15p you used. Personally tho, I'll stick with Intelligent as 1) the majority of my excess comes between 11 and 5, and 2) It's much less faff 😂

[@EVPuzzle]

Yes battery refill is in my numbers as with hot water and car charging The much less faff is a big one 👍

[@AnthonyCarter-yu5vz]

Hi, I have import on Agile and export on FLUX

[@nolandan1]

Me too - I wonder how long Octopus will permit that for, as in theory this is not an allowed combo. I did fess up to it to support, but they've done nothing about it yet.

[@EVPuzzle]

That doesn't sound right , Agile can have different export options but half of flux isn't a product as far as I know

[@AnthonyCarter-yu5vz]

@@EVPuzzle Hi, I like your videos, I was on FLUX until I could get my automation working for Agile, When I switched to agile for import I asked if I could stay on FLUX for export and no one said I couldn't and they only switched the import.

[@nolandan1]

@@EVPuzzle I think it's because despite Octopus's claims that some of their products are both import and export, in actual fact, I think they treat the two independently. When I changed from Flux import to Agile import, they didn't automatically change Flux export to anything else - they just left it as it was

[@EVPuzzle]

@@nolandan1 it's good that you don't usually see how the system works , it just works just I guess exceptions happen I sort of like they're not perfect , keeps them human

[@MrLeecavturbo]

Too much risk IOG for me

[@EVPuzzle]

Risk of ? Just needs a little effort to understand how it works to make the best use of it. If you can handle a TV remote these days you'll be fine