Is It Worth Adding a Pre-Ferment When Cold Fermenting Bread Dough?

Ever since I published my pre-ferment vs cold ferment video I have been getting questions about whether it is worth using both methods for the same dough. Let's find out.
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[@ChainBaker]

📖 Read more in the link below the video. 🥨 Become a channel member ⤵ kzbin.info/door/zSKbqj9Z042HuJTQI9V8ugjoin 🌾 Support the channel on Ko-Fi ⤵ www.ko-fi.com/chainbaker 🔪 Find all the things I use here ⤵ 🇺🇸 www.amazon.com/shop/ChainBaker 🇬🇧 www.amazon.co.uk/shop/ChainBaker 🍞 Share your bread pictures here ⤵ www.flickr.com/groups/chainbaker/

[@HittokiriBatosai]

I agree with your earlier conclusion that it's more useful in commercial settings than in the home. Watching a donut shop mix up what looked like 4kg of dough and then adding a kilo of yesterday's dough for flavour and texture makes a lot more sense than me prefermenting a 50g dough ball and then adding it to a 150g dough ball.

[@mattlevault5140]

I made ciabatta early this week with a 24 hour preferment biga. The taste and crust was amazing with a wide open crumb - very similar to the pan de cristal I've been making in recent weeks. I feel like I'm really getting the hang of it (after only 35+ years of baking bread 🙄). I like preferment because I can quickly mix it up after work or after dinner, do what I need to do that evening, then have a ready-made plan to bake the next day or evening - sort of like scheduling an appointment to bake... It works for me. Also, my neighbors and/or the fire fighters at my local station LOVE getting fresh, warm, homemade bread for their evening meal. Thanks for your inspiration and taking my baking skill to the next level.

[@bananawomanD]

I'm so glad I found your channel a few days ago. I've been baking bread on and off for a few years now and have approached it with the same scientific interest as you do but it's been from many varying sources and nothing quite as comprehensive as your channel, so thank you for making these videos! I'm learning so much watching them. I've also been wondering about this lately, and I think the biggest draw for me for pre-ferments is that it just takes up less space in the fridge than a big bowl of dough. Since I live in a small apartment with a flatmate and mostly bake on the weekends after we do our weekly grocery shop, making a preferment is just much easier than trying to play complicated tetris with stuff in the fridge. This is really good to know. Thank you!

[@knottybead4871]

I’m all for simplicity. By the way I used a spray bottle on my breads now, and I love the results I get from it. Thank you.

[@catherineworley8129]

My favorite is cold fermentation. I never knew there was such a thing until watching your videos and I am very impressed with the results and the little amount of time it takes. Thank you!

[@ChainBaker]

🍞💪😎

[@zoemetro9824]

I loved this video. Thank you for taking the time and effort to reassure me that my lazier versions of cold fermenting is all OK. As well, I loved the comment about the baguette benefiting from the preferment. 3 cheers for the wonderfully interesting life of yeast and baking. Every dough is a new journey.

[@kevinu.k.7042]

A nice trial with interesting results. Thanks 👍

[@causetherat308]

Awesome video and channel. I pre ferment for 24 hours on the counter. Then add more flour and cold ferment the starter for a week. Let the starter warm up a bit. Add the rest of the four and ingredients. Treat the dough no different than making unfermented. Bread has a very strong aroma and flavor.

[@cristianofischer3080]

I might definitely try all these methods. I just wonder what would be the results for large batches using different flours. Thanks Chain Baker for making us think outside the box

[@supernoobsmith5718]

Have not tried any pre-ferments yet. But I can say that 24hour cold-ferment is VERY satisfying. Not overnight but a FULL 24+ hours. I suspect 2 or even 3 days will be even better. Also, adding 8-9% olive oil makes the bread stay nice and moist....everything's coming together nicely, so glad to be on this journey. This is one of the key channels for me, love the content.

[@georgepagakis9854]

I find that when olive oil is added the bread is chewier. and after 48 hours there is no big difference in taste expect that the dough will run the risk of over ferment Anything over 24 hours needs a high protein strong flour. 96 hours would need 14% or higher otherwise it will become a blob. Over 96 hours is really useless in my opinion.

[@supernoobsmith5718]

@@georgepagakis9854 I've done successful bread with 3 day dough, it was bread flour. But I've also had decent success with 10% AP but only since using the combo cooker. Yes it did get a little dead but 2 shapings/proofs at room temp gave it enough life. Depends on how much yeast also I guess.

[@baarnos1537]

I was wondering about that last weekend when I made the ciabatta cold proof for the first time. Thanks

[@constantin1959]

Definitely agree with your conclusion!

[@eamonpoplin8540]

My first few *successful* 😊 GF bakes used a polish. I switched over to the cold-proofing method too for the exact same reason - same results with less work

[@CastroMKE]

I love these experiments. Makes me want to make some bread lol

[@supersosiska]

From what I heard, preferment is a remnant from the times when yeast was expensive. And bakers were adding yesterday's dough to get it going instead of using new yeast.

[@garylester8621]

I've been using poolish for a long time, convinced that it's the only way to get anywhere close to a sourdough flavor. (Which I love, but just dosen't work for me). But I will definitely try the cold fermention next. Probably go for 48-72 hours. Thanks for answering all the questions I had, and didn't have.

[@anyrealitybutthisone804]

This is fantastic information, my guy. You should log all of your experiments and write a book, I'd totally buy it. I will be omitting my baguette preferment going forward, I guess.

[@ChainBaker]

Test it side by side and see what you like best 😎

[@SuperDavidEF]

I thought of a legitimate situation where a pre-ferment would make sense for a home baker when also cold fermenting the dough. It sounds convoluted, like something that would rarely happen, but for me it happens quite often. Basically, a pre-ferment makes sense when you need/want the benefit of a very long fermentation but on a strict time budget. Usually how that works for me is that I want/need a bread baked on some day in the near future but I'm busy with other things. If I mix the dough today for the future bake, it will be over-fermented by then and won't give a good rise. Or, maybe I don't even have the time today to make the dough, but just enough time to mix up a pre-ferment. The next time I'd have time to make dough is too close to when I want to bake it, and if I made it then, it wouldn't have enough fermentation time. But if I make a pre-ferment today, I can mix it into a dough on a day that is closer to my desired baking day, and let it cold ferment until bake day, when it will be perfectly ready and not over or under proofed.

[@karatecowboy5339]

Did u try it?

[@alexhurst3986]

I love this content. I am a food science nerd (graduate degree in Nutrition) and these are very well done and super informative.

[@mr.pizzamarlon]

This is one of those enigmas that is debatable to eternity... *You are correct* that it's not needed if we are just making bread at home on a small scale. But on a large scale, it is noticeable. The only reason I personally use preferment, it's fun and I also like adding surprise ingredients but you shouldn't add additional ingredients in the preferment but rather the final proofing. In conclusion, preferment is just an additional step not needed like kneading-it'll taste equally identical without these two steps unless you're making for a large party, then use preferment if you want to impress everyone with that extra flavor 🍞👍🏼

[@supernoobsmith5718]

I'm fairly new. So I've pondered many things stuggling to understand certain concepts. I'm glad you tackled this. Because I think pre-ferments are a legacy thing, and a commercial thing. Not really needed otherwise. For fun and hobby maybe. But I remain open minded still.

[@kevinu.k.7042]

Yes, the idea were developed by smaller bakeries before refrigeration was as widely available as it is now. Also, because a preferment was a way of getting some of the longer fermentation flavours without the issue a of having a half ton of dough sitting around with all of the storage and temperature control issues. To my mind for home bakers it is as easy to preferment all of the dough, whether it is cold fermented or not.

[@kevinu.k.7042]

Correction: "it is as easy to *slow* ferment all of the dough, whether it is cold fermented or not."

[@jamkpa]

Good stuff!

[@Jahloveipraise]

It could be psychosomatic but i have done 2 batches of pizza dough, one with just 24h cold bulk, and then one with poolish + 24 hour bulk and the texture was noticeably different to me. Not necessarily one better than the other, just different lol

[@YouTubaba]

Thank you for this comparison video! I actually have tried both methods but not a side-by-side comparison. To me I think the difference becomes obvious after a couple days. Bread with preferment stays softer for longer. I like to weigh my bread and I found that no knead bread loses its moisture more easily and becomes lighter after a couple days.😅

[@jimmystrangus2687]

That's good data to have, but I can't imagine having leftover homemade bread 2 days later! ;)

[@markknecht9416]

Great video. I cold ferment my sour dough bread for 4-5 days, room proof and bake. The wife loves it. I'm planning on trying out your cold ferment/cold proof path soon but expect to get fine results. As an aside, all of my cold ferment breads split on the side like yours did. I haven't tried to solve that problem other than to say that slashes on the top didn't fix it.

[@ChainBaker]

Extending the final proof will likely fix it. The loaves often tear open because there is still too much tension in the dough. Plenty of steam will also help to keep the crust moist while it rises and stop it from splitting.

[@markknecht9416]

@@ChainBaker - You make sense. I'm baking a cold ferment loaf today so I'll give that a shot. When using cold ferment/warm proof it's a bit of a guess how long it really takes the dough to warm up, as well as when to shape it. I typically give it 2 hours on the counter, do my shape, and then let it finish in the loaf pan before baking which is typically 2 more hours. Maybe I'll go 3 hours today and see how it does. One thing I like about doing the bread this way is there's no way a local art-house bakery would do 4-5 days of cold ferment as it would raise their costs too much. The might sell 300 loaves a day, so on a 4 day schedule they'd have to have 1200-1500 loaves in various stages of ferment and proof which would raise their costs. I find that cold ferment is a unique flavor that even our James Beard winning baker here in Tucson doesn't duplicate and for us home bakes it's just a little shelf space in the fridge.

[@Rob_430]

I’ve been questioning using a Poolish as opposed to a long bulk ferment overnight straight dough. I may have asked this on one of your other videos. With a Poolish, it’s an extra step, to mix and ferment a preferment overnight, then continue the next day mixing and fermenting, whereas, I use the Lahey method: bulk ferment overnight, all the dough, then I shape, proof and bake next morning. Easier.

[@elliottxanter2324]

I would love to see a video with your take on a method I have been testing myself recently. In my recent bakes, I have been combining cold bulk fermentation with the pinch back/old dough/pate fermentee method. Day 1, I mix my dough as normal, and cold bulk ferment for about 20-24 hours. Then on day 2, before final proofing, I save a piece of the bulk fermented dough in the fridge. It stays in the fridge all of day 3. Day 4, when I'm ready to mix the dough for my next bake, I mix in the old dough from the last batch. That piece of dough was given ~24 hours of bulk fermentation, and another ~48 hours of continued fermentation before being mixed into the new dough. The new dough gets another ~24 hour cold bulk fermentation, and before final proofing, I pinch off a new piece to repeat the process. I have noticed a flavor improvement, but not as much as I was expecting. Still, it's so easy to do, I see no reason not to continue the experiment. If this idea appeals to you, I'd be very interested to see a video on it! But I will be happy with any video you decide to make. Keep up the amazing work!

[@ChainBaker]

There will be a pate fermentee guide coming soon. It's the pre-ferment that makes the most sense to me because it does not require any extra work.

[@elliottxanter2324]

​@@ChainBakerawesome!

[@georgepagakis9854]

I think I am the one who has pounded this question over and over and finally we get the answer. I wanted to try this a long time ago but I was just convinced that poolish or bigga will make a better final product. Once again you proved that preferments are not worth the effort for the home baker. I can now see why its used in a commercial bakeries. I will definitely give it a go on the next Pizza. Thank you for this video. Its something that I was hoping you would do :) You are the man!

[@ChainBaker]

Try the test and see how it tastes to you. Perhaps my taste buds are dead 😄

[@georgepagakis9854]

@@ChainBaker I totally believe you and I doubt your tastes buds are dead LOL. I am going to try it. The next time I will make pizza I will do bulk fermentation and scrap the preferment. I will let you know how it works out. no kneed rocks!!!!!! and bulk fermentations rocks even more :) Keep up the amazing work my friend. I just love the principal's of baking every time you put one out! And of course every other video too :) Your channel is the best one for backing hands down and you should be proud with what you have achieved over the years.

[@ChainBaker]

Cheers, George! I'm just learning like everyone else here 😎

[@antch0]

Hi Charlie ! Great video as always, thank you for all your work ! Talking about pre-ferment, I was wondering what if we want to bake a pretty sour bread without sourdough starter, but with an overproofed pre-ferment ? I mean, it could be that way : - making a poolish with not only a pinch but a good amount of yeast - let it rise then deflate, and wait again for it to become sour - refresh it the same way we feed a starter, with a small ratio like 1:2:2 - use it at peak in the bread recipe with no more added yeast Don't you think it could be a way to bake a bread with complex yet different flavor from a long cold proof ? I know it looks like one of your previous experience (comparing long fermented biga and sourdoudh) but it's a bit different ;) Actually I'm trying it right now, still bulk fermenting :D Keep it up

[@ChainBaker]

Let me know how your experiments go! ;)

[@antch0]

Update ! It made a very good yeasted bread, but there was none of the teng of a sourdough bread. It may simply be an alternative to classic pre-ferments.

[@bloodwolf7462]

Still here waiting for Chimney Cake ;) Also just cold fermentation is way to go for me.

[@richardmh1987]

Actually, I do this for pizza dough. Start with poolish for 50% of my final dough (add honey to improve flavour and help with browning) and leave it 24 hours in the fridge. Then make the final dough, although I don´t add any more yeast like you did, I just go with the one already in the poolish. AndI leave that final dough another 24 hours in the fridge. The resulting pizzas are very very flavourful, even if I don´t use a strong pizza sauce, and they are very soft and crunchy. Actually, I did a bit of a comparison by accident. I made some pizza dough and took it to my mother's house to make pizzas for her and my brothers. I had some left and took it back home, store it in the fridge and went on a short vacation, so I left that dough in the fridge for 6 days. Once I got back I baked two of those pizza doughs for one pizza and a calzone. They had really nice flavour but the crust was too thick. I guess it depends on personal preferences. BTW, maybe you could switch from poolish to biga and give it a bit more time to both doughs and see if you still find them that similar.

[@JasonwithaJay]

I've skipped preferments for almost all my doughs now. The exception is my pizza dough. When I skip the poolish I end up with a denser crust. So that dough gets a 12-16 hour poolish and then spends another 24 hours in the fridge.

[@jonnyjonjonjrshabadoo6565]

Have you tested side by side? Also, do you notice a flavor difference? I’ve been running tests myself and they validate your anecdote about the airier crust. From a flavor standpoint, my tests have been inconclusive. Testing again with my current pizza batch.

[@JasonwithaJay]

​@jonnyjonjonjrshabadoo Just to clarify, this is for a 70% hydration dough. I think the taste is about the same. My poolish dough has a slightly more yeasty-sour flavor, but I probably would have been able to get the same taste with an extra 12 hours in the fridge with the bulk ferment. It's weird. I thought it was because it was high hydration but I skipped the preferment for my 80% hydration ciabatta dough and it came out perfect. I'm thinking it must be something about the high heat/fast cook time with a pizza oven.

[@jonnyjonjonjrshabadoo6565]

@@JasonwithaJay Thanks for sharing your experience. Seems like it generally aligns with ChainBaker’s findings in that the difference of taste is slight at best.

[@ScottHusseyPhoto]

The only pre-ferment which makes sense to use in cold fermented breads is a sourdough starter. Long, slow, cold bulk fermentation is essentially producing the same result as using a pre-ferment with a traditional room temperature bulk fermentation.

[@GPoh_99]

As you've gravitated towards the no-knead method, I wonder if an early knead makes a difference in sourdough specifically, as sourdough is much more finicky than yeasted bread. Also, I wonder how stretch and folds, coil folds and stretched out laminations would compare.

[@ChainBaker]

I would not think so. The same principles apply. If temperature control is correct, then it should not matter. We don't knead our starters and they still rise when we mix them with water and flour. Folding technique relies on the dough. If it's super stretchy, then lamination or coil folding would be best. If it's not that loose, then a regular bowl fold will do.

[@johncarson6851]

I’m a new baker from Manhattan using the New Your Times Sullivan street no-knead bread recipe. It was a super easy way to begin baking but I’ve changed up the ingredients a bit and have been using 7 to 10 day old pâte fermentée for the past few bakes. Currently I have my first time cold bulk fermentation going on where I refrigerated the dough immediately after combining the ingredients (no resting- no folding- no shaping) My thinking is that a 10 day old pâte fermentée added during the 3 minute hand mixing process may just add a bit of flavor. I hear you though Charlie for sure. Just wondering if the age of the pâte fermentée could make a difference.

[@ChainBaker]

Sure it would. The older it is the stronger it will be. And if you have it on hand, then you may as well use it! 👍 Btw I will post a full pate fermentee guide this Sunday.

[@johncarson6851]

Thanks very much for the reply and your time

[@RikkiMama]

Thanks for another great comparison video, Charlie. There was a bread recipe that I recently saw & wanted to try that required a pre-ferment. Now I know I can try making it and just use cold bulk fermentation instead. Just want to share a success story thanks to your comparison videos. My husband wanted hoagie rolls for tri-tip sandwiches. The recipe I used was for same day baking, but I decided to make the dough last night & cold bulk ferment instead since you've inspired me to use cold fermentation more often. The cold dough was easier to shape & baked up beautifully. My husband gave the buns a big thumbs up. Next time, I plan to do stretch & fold instead of kneading in the mixer. 😁

[@ChainBaker]

Perfect! 😎👍

[@vaheakli4551]

Always keep in mind that you could have different strain of yeast and different flour, which of one can act slightly different in process🤗🙃 Btw, have you ever added whey to dough instead of some part of water? I think it worth a comparison adding it to sourdough giving it more yeast and less time to ferment, adding it to simple dough without anything fancy. Another thing I know is if you have just some leftovers of yogurt or any other sourmilk product, that you was lazy or enable to scrape away with spoon, you can wash it with a bit of water and do your dough on exactly this water. But dont overwork it, just adding a lot of yogurt to water! And last idea for you is to making wheat bread on rye starter. It has it's own character (quite matching lazy character of baker who has no wheat starter :D)

[@ChainBaker]

When it comes to commercial yeast there is only one strain. But sourdough is certainly much more varied. I have not tried it yet, but once I make some cheese I will be sure to use it and perhaps make a video too! :) I'm not sure if the bacteria that ferment yogurt would work with flour, but I also don't have experience with it, so I can't say for sure. Oh yes a rye starter adds a great bit of flavour and character to a wheat bread!

[@michunel7022]

Could you please share timing of rising after taking it from the fridge, after the first first pre-shaping and final proofing? Didn’t find it on your website.

[@ChainBaker]

That depends on the recipe, ingredients, fridge temperature, room temperature, quality of dough. It's impossible to tell. Check out the Cold Fermentation playlist for ideas.

[@Aimia4]

If you watch the video, the gluten needs to relax, then you can pre-shape. Allow the gluten to relax again, and you'll notice it start to proof. Use this change during the little proof as your guide for the tension of the dough for final shaping. As soon as the gluten has relaxed, it's ready. You'll have to get it wrong a few times and tear your gluten net a few times before you nail it, but you'll surprise yourself that you'll figure it out quite quickly. If in doubt, let it relax a little longer. 👍

[@joefabbri6453]

Thank you for Your videos and commitment your videos are between my favorites around the tube - would love to understand the principles of adding more or not at all yeast to preferment. And why ? Temperature? Yeast in them preferment or not at all thank you Maybe you have a video about that but i hade not seen it Thanks again

[@ChainBaker]

The pre-ferment should ferment slowly. If we add all the yeast it will rise too soon and not develop much flavour.

[@joefabbri6453]

@@ChainBaker thank you , please Forgive my English - so we always add more yeast after the preferment is “done “ fermenting And We add the rest of the ingredients ? Or we use the preferment As yeast

[@ChainBaker]

Yes. Otherwise there is no point to making a pre-ferment because you could just use less yeast and ferment the whole dough for longer instead. That is why I prefer cold bulk fermentation. It requires less steps and produces better result.

[@joefabbri6453]

@@ChainBaker yes awesome “the cold fermentation “ that I like as well for my direct Neapolitan pizza thank you 🙏

[@DerMaflon]

I sometimes use preferments and I sometimes don't. If I combine whole wheat flour and white flour, I usually preferment the whole wheat for 24 hours and the whole dough for another 12 hours in the fridge. Also for Baguette I always use poolish because I feel like it gives the same good taste as a full cold ferment without "weakening" the dough as much and with less browning. For normal everyday bread or Pizza I usually just cold ferment since it's less work.

[@sheilam4964]

I'm all for simplicity. Thx.

[@killualover225]

Thank you for the video. I’m thinking to add polish for my croissant. But since the process of producing them takes 3 days. Do you think the same applies? The reason I’m adding polish to make them more lighter. I’m not sure i have to test. But i would love to hear your thoughts on this. Thank you

[@ChainBaker]

You can certainly add a pre-ferment to croissant dough. But personally I prefer cold fermentation.

[@killualover225]

@@ChainBaker yes i meant the process takes 3 days. So it is kinda cold fermented dough. Do you think adding the polish still valid at this case?

[@ChainBaker]

I don't think it would add enough to justify the extra work of making it. But you can test it and see whether the difference is noticeable. Perhaps it will be.

[@Harlizzlee]

can i cold ferment croissant dough before adding the butter block?

[@ChainBaker]

Definitely!

[@magistral5732]

The solution: use sourdough starter, it's a mature prefermemt itself and it gives you a slow fermentation process. Easy right?

[@ChainBaker]

Sure thing. But if you don't have a starter, then cold bulk fermentation is one of the best methods.

[@Adrian-ww2jj]

When you use an active sourdough starter in a high amount, then the fermentation at the 24°C temperature can last only 2-3 hours.

[@hp-cs7mx]

Who needs a fridge when my kitchen is 2 degrees C overnight ! I might let my loaf actually warm up a bit until this afternoon before baking. Feels fine to the touch, wish me luck?

[@kimsteel366]

Cold ferment or preferment? YES. 😁 I'm now a firm believer in both. A match made in baking Heaven. I get good rises, good flavors and good bakes every time. I tend to bake on the weekends and I usually rock 2 different doughs -- for example: this past weekend, I did a same day bake on potato rolls while I cold fermented a sourdough cinnamon roll dough. Both were a success. No need for me to choose, I use and trust both methods. 👍👍

[@joannestretch]

I tried the preferment bread and it turns out great and taste great Ive tried just cold fermenting the dough in bulk ferment and it doesnt rise for me in the fridge for some reason the bottom of my fridge is between 5 to 8C I would prefer to just cold bulk ferment in the fridge, 1 less step to do but like i said it doesnt work for me, could it be my yeast? i checked it to make sure its alive and thriving and yes it was fine, so what was the problem? i have no idea my flours are organic and 14% protein, i would love to skip the prefermenting step and go straight to cold bulk fermenting in the fridge

[@ChainBaker]

Try using slightly more yeast or leaving the dough out for 30 - 45 minutes before refrigerating. That should help.

[@joannestretch]

@@ChainBaker will do that next time, ty for the suggestion Charlie as always....

[@johnrothwell8915]

Recognizing the potential for confirmation bias is the mark of a real scientist. Nice work.

[@ChainBaker]

Cheers! A proper backyard scientist I am 😄

[@BobTheBald2]

Instead of a pre-ferment a couple months ago I started, on the advice of another youtuber, cutting a 100 grams off my dough after it's fermented. I put that piece in the fridge for next week. I still use the no kneed and cold ferment, but when I go to make my bread I add that saved piece to my yeasted water, and mix it till it breaks down, then add the rest of the indigents. After the dough has fermented I cut another 100 grams off for next week, and repeat the process. I know it adds flavor, because I forgot to add it one week, and my wife said she could definitely tell a difference, actually she said my bread wasn't as tasty, and she didn't know anything about the saved piece of dough. Also if you are not going to bake with in a week you can freeze the saved piece of dough then thaw it and add when you are ready to bake.

[@ChainBaker]

That's pate fermentee. I will publish a guide on that type of pre-ferment this Sunday 😎

[@BobTheBald2]

@@ChainBaker Nice can't wait!

[@robertphillips1941]

I use my sourdough starter like a preferment. It gives me an excuse to use the starter, and avoids the extra step.

[@tamnguyen9746]

Please make a video to compare Red Label Instant yeast with Gold Label Instant Yeast. Many people said Gold label use for sweet bread but i still don't know why . Can i use Red label for sweet bread because i can't find gold label in my town

[@ChainBaker]

I use the same yeast in every one of my 300+ videos. It does not matter which yeast you use 😉

[@tamnguyen9746]

@@ChainBaker Thanks🤝

[@TEDodd]

I'm a fan of preferment and cold proofing. 95% of my bread is made with starter (the ultimate preferment) and then cold proofed.

[@dewantamanik8540]

I think, to combine pre-ferment and cold long proofing, is beneficial if you use levain (natural yeast). If you use commercial yeast, then I think there is no point in combining both techniques. When using natural starter, then less natural starter is used to gain more flavour. Like using less commercial yeast in cold fermenting. Using levain and cold fermentation will, however, create more sour bread with the benefit like softer crumb's texture and longer shelf-life. That is my opinion.

[@ChainBaker]

Oh definitely. This video is only for commercial yeast purposes 😁

[@ShirinJannatul]

Hello! Im from Bangladesh, I have a question to you, can you bake bread without oven, im asking this because i wants to bake bread but i don’t have any oven so i try to bake bread and cakes in gas stove!😅

[@ChainBaker]

As far as I know you can only make flatbreads with no oven. I can't imagine a way of baking a loaf without it. Or at least a Dutch oven on a fire.

[@G-gnome]

I’m still building up the courage to ferment longer than 24 hours for the sweeter bread.

[@supernoobsmith5718]

Do it. Make 5 small doughs, and make one each day. You'll be surprised. I've used 8 day old, but only for pizza. The yeast gives out eventually and won't final rise.

[@ChainBaker]

Don't worry, just go for it! Start with a couple days and work from there.

[@peterlukaszewski]

Pre-ferment was invented in order to replace flavour lost when commercial operations reduced fermentatio time. I don't know why it didn't occur to me before watching this video 😲 Note however that pre-ferment can be kept in the freezer for those times when you want to prepare same day bread.

[@neverendingblending4711]

Everything depends from the ingredients and the type of bread U want to make. For example when U add some molasses good resolution is to live the dough for 12 h hours for cold fermentation. Beside if someone's has some kind of stomach health problems long fermentation could be to heavy for digestion

[@ChainBaker]

On the contrary long fermentation makes the brad more digestible.

[@thanhle-vj2qp]

hi , i've been following you for a year now , can you made the vietnamese bread please !!!!

[@ChainBaker]

I'll put it on my list!

[@doremiancleff1508]

I still can see why one would make pre-ferment, but it goes down to same idea why would bakery use it - if you are goint to do a lot of bakes, maybe even with a different kind of doughs, i think it makes sense to make all the pre-ferment in advance and just split it between batches. Some of which could also go into a fridge for next day. But that's definitely a very niche case, not many home cooks will encounter. So yeah, cold fermentation all the way.

[@asterixky]

You know the 500 year old "Bakers of Paris" league is arming themselves with pitchforks and walking toward your house. lol Another great comparison. Thanks again, et vive le pain.

[@ChainBaker]

😁

[@kztrekz3329]

Might be on the wrong video but Ive tried cold bulk fermentation 4 or 5 times now. The dough wont rise for me. Ive tried instant and active yeast, I even went and bought 1 new of each to be sure....same result. The bread is chewier which I like and its the tastiest bread Ive ever made but the end result looks almost like a brick :)

[@ChainBaker]

Try using a bit more yeast or leave it out for 30 - 45 minutes before refrigerating it to get the fermentation going. Perhaps your fridge is just very cold ✌️

[@kztrekz3329]

@@ChainBaker Ill try you suggestions, thanks!

[@RikkiMama]

@@kztrekz3329 You also might try using warm water (no hotter than 110°F/43°C) when making your dough. I'll use water around 85-90°F to make my dough so the yeast gets a bit of a headstart before putting it in the fridge.

[@Dracu1987]

Did you just pre-fermented a part of the preferment?🧐 You knew it will produce the same bread but still did the experiment to prove it. That's science!💯

[@ChainBaker]

I want a video for every question anyone asks me 😅

[@Glance852]

🫶🏼

[@ThatGuy-dj3qr]

I must have heard the term preferment at least fifty times. At no point was this term defined in the video. Is this a sourdough bread ? I am totally confused.

[@ChainBaker]

Preferments explained kzbin.info/www/bejne/e52td6xudqiqe6M