Is it Worth it? Installing Ibis' $69 Freehub Upgrade - Why Isn't Everyone Else Doing This?

[@zenofthemoment]

Another vote for Bontrager Rapid Drive hubs and wheels. Affordable, strong, light, 54poe-> 108poe for $20 in parts, and very easily upgraded without tools. I’ve got two of their wheelsets now, and I’m looking for another set in the near future.

[@amtberproducts]

Cheaper than the DT $100 54T ratchet. Very nice

[@vernalmaloy3992]

Way to Go, Ibis!

[@billbelgum9770]

I run multiple sets of Ibis Blackbird wheels. This upgrade is well worth it. The 72 POE is more than enough for me!

[@MikeinCC]

The newer DT 370 Ratchet LN series is a bomber budget hub and lets you easily swap in star ratchets just like the 350.

[@TPenguin777]

I made a similar upgrade to the Bear Pawl hub on my Fezzari. I was able to install a 6 Pawl in place of the original 4 Pawl hub. Good upgrade, cost me $55. It WAS NOT an easy hub to find. Good thing others had done it ahead of me and I just had to follow their lead.

[@alexlogan9279]

I did the same on my Fezzari

[@DAMN55117]

Keep bringing us these little changes that benefit us. Thanks Steve.

[@alanclarke4965]

I've been happy with DT350 flexibility, including switching my old 100mm front hub to 12mm for a gravel fork - but really should all be standard to do this sort of thing. Also rockshox forks: not hard to change travel, or type of airspring to some extent, and dampers can be changed if you want

[@michaelrieser9928]

Having a better engaging hub is a great improvement on a bike and how it rides and how you can ride it. ( I learned that from you Steve, thanks.) Not a great hub on a $4999 or under hardtail or full suspension bike! Thats crazy! We are not going to get people on a good bike if it costs more then $5000 because most people can’t see spending that much on a Bike. I’m 59 and my money ideas are dated but a good bike shouldn’t cost as much as a good motorcycle. Labor, parts, manufacturing, assembly, freight etc. it doesn’t add up!

[@shrubjr893]

Go Ibis! This is excellent!

[@smalltimeadventures_usa]

Purchased! Thanks for posting this information.

[@jalbrecht55]

Not directly related but I was wondering if you could do a deep dive on the “quiet” hub options out there. Onyx looks great but they are so heavy and so expensive. Options like the newer/12 speed Shimano XT which is remarkably inexpensive or the Tairin Shogun and S1 that all have means of disengaging the ratchet while coasting look really intriguing.

[@michaelgunawan2319]

Tip for calculating hub engagement: put the wheel in the bike or a truing stand. Put the valve at a reference point, say 12 o clock. Rotate the wheel and count how many clicks until the valve gets back to 12. This is your POE. 360/POE is the angle.

[@Stiil_tippin_on_4fours]

That’s a cool way of doing that too. I like that.

[@syms85]

Just got a set (front and rear)of Nukeproof horizon V2 with MS hub 102T for £240! My Vitus sommet 290crs has a rubbish 36T HG hub which I believe makes my rear end feel slow and dragging. I get them Wednesday

[@MTB_CRZY]

Bontrager has been doing this for a couple years now. They do this on the middle to upper tier hubs that have the "rapid drive" label on them. They sell the 108 hub upgrade from the lower engagement and its a cheap upgrade too.

[@Stiil_tippin_on_4fours]

Do you have any more information on that? That’s pretty cool

[@z.f.6163]

IMHO this is one of the major selling points of Trek's mid-priced bikes compared to most other brands. You get the rapid engagement hubs starting in the $2k range (somewhat lower on sale) and once you get used to them it's HARD going back to a bike with slow-engagement hubs like Shimano in the same price range.

[@ADVtheMISSIONARY]

Only problem with Bontrager hubs is the ratchet ring is glued/shrunk in and will end up slipping with no way to fix it

[@MikeinCC]

Bontrager used to let you swap in pawls and springs (kit) for $20, which would turn a 3 pawl system, into a 6 pawl system. Cheaper than a whole new freehub.

[@Spacechoppers]

Got this little trinket for my DV9 in March. It was an upgrade for sure, most noticeable on narrow rocky root trails where you constantly have to avoid pedal strikes. That said, I don’t think it’s a great system. It’s not an even 5 degrees of engagement, so it still feels a little sloppy compared to a more refined 72 poe hub. It also has some notches from the cassette digging into it and i can feel some binding when I spin the wheel by hand.

[@tonyhruzek4250]

That is the only reason I have not bought the Blackbird wheels! My next purchase is these wheels!

[@50whatnomadtravelnursemtb5]

They are great rims, the hubs have been solid too..but best part is the wide low profile rims.

[@BigBrainParty]

I agree, both their carbon and aluminum rims are fantastic.

[@Radimus1990]

This is great. Gonna go upgrade my Ripmo AF now. Thanks.

[@dozza7946]

The Bontrager wheels on my Trek had a hub that was upgradable - 3 pawls & 3 springs later and I had double the engagement- less than $30 to give me 104T engagement 👍 - the difference was very apparent!

[@tracymcmanus550]

This great. Kudos to Ibis for doing this. In this day and age I’m really surprised that most mtn bikes aren’t coming with at least this much engagement. It obviously doesn’t cost that much and Trek has been doing it on their Comp 30 wheels for a few years now now. There is a huge difference going from 18 to 72+ POE

[@BigBrainParty]

I totally agree! I think it's just one more place to save a few bucks, and most customers won't know about high engagement till they've been riding for several years. Kudos to ibis for making it backwards compatible

[@GokkunGuru]

It’s just like swapping out free hub drivers from HG to XD to Microspline. Cool.

[@Alex_564]

FYI the updated DT 370 hub is essentially just a cheaper & heavier 350 hub. They moved away from the pawls to the star ratchet on the newer version; so, no more specialty tool is needed for engagement upgrade.

[@flexxx222]

The more modern 3-pawl hubs can usually be upgraded to ratchet with kits supplied from DT Swiss. I have upgraded several used Hubs to Ratchet myself. Then Ratchet LN freehubs can easily be used. There are even Hub and Freehub combinations that are not compatible according to DT but work absolutely fine. Just recently built a Hybrid with 5x126 rear spacing to 5x130 with Microspline!

[@anthonyhum8739]

I finally got my hands on this freehub after waiting 6 months to come to canadian shops. Apart from the long wait, its a great little upgrade 👌

[@loganjacobson2335]

Bontrager line comp wheels have sold the extra pawls for almost nothing to upgrade the hubs from 54 to 108.

[@tonykuz4813]

Worth it for sure. I was lucky to get one when they were first released. Love it.

[@flyingsquirrel575]

I’m 100% with you on this, Steve, and I think it needs to go a step further. My Ibis DV9 (XT build) came with Ibis’ 933 wheels with 36 poe, which is kind of like putting plastic flowers in a Lalique vase. This $69 72 poe freehub has made a noteworthy improvement in how the bike functions. I’d argue that in the case of this bike, though, a hardtail with a sticker price of well over $4000, the higher engagement hub should be standard and not an additional $69. The additional small cost to Ibis would be hugely rewarded with customer loyalty. By the way, the DV9 is fabulous, and thanks for bringing that to the channel.

[@William.N]

Super cool that Ibis is doing this too

[@Michael-fi6ve]

Got this for my ripley a few months ago, great for ratcheting climbs. Easy to install

[@KestrelYI]

Good on them. I upgraded my DT Swiss to 54 and appreciated the change. For $70, that's quite price effective, too.

[@tmwei396]

Awesome. This is one of the reasons why I've avoided Pivot and other brands that use superboost on their bikes that are not DH bikes, too many and often unnecessary "standards". I just don't see the need for it and sometimes I like to interchange the wheels between my 3 bikes along with a spare wheelset I have.

[@alexlogan9279]

Bear Pawl hubs have a 72 tooth upgrade for their hubs as well. I made the upgrade in 2022. I also did the DT Swiss ratchet upgrade on my 370 and it was super easy.

[@chuckrodgers4780]

Our family has 3 Ibis bikes , all are the AF models. I will be buying one of these hubs and will let everyone try it, if they like it I will upgrade their bikes also . BTW , we bought Ibis AF bikes because of Tess’s reviews a few years ago. Cheers from Fremont!

[@BigBrainParty]

Ibis' af bikes are wonderful. It's amazing such a small company can make such great bikes at an affordable price

[@dannyh3335]

Running one of these on my DV9, backwards compatibility!

[@mikej1348]

Great info Steve. It gives me another option other than trek when upgrading my wider wheels. I like Ibis’s 35mm internal width wheel but hesitated because of the hubs low engagement hub. Why aren’t there more under $1000 quality wheelsets out there?

[@orangepartyhat]

I have one and it's great!

[@John_D2]

I need this! Thanks, Steve!

[@hippiebits2071]

I think it’s fantastic Ibis is doing this and it makes good business sense as well.

[@aaronblonden6774]

Thanks i ordered instantly. Appreciate you. Hope your feeling great. Combine this video and jkw torture test on the rims and they should be rather unbeatable

[@leokuo7127]

Wow. I'll need to try this. Thanks for letting us know about this easy upgrade. I saw Bontrager having that option too on the Roscoe 8 wheels.

[@derekdoucet2625]

I immediately ditched the stock wheels on a Ripmo entirely because of the lousy engagement. I have good high engagement hubs on all of my other bikes, and while I would have dealt with weight of the stock wheels for awhile, I just couldn't get over the sloppy hubs. I would have replaced the wheels eventually anyway, but I might have simply done this and ridden them for a season had it been available then. Thumbs up to Ibis.

[@icantgivecredit871]

There's a way to upgrade the POE in lower end DT Swiss hubs, but it requires $150 in parts and must be done by a tech or someone at least knowledgeable in this area. And if the wheel has been ridden a while, it will take A LOT of leverage to break the freehub loose.

[@JimLodico]

I love this. I’ve been eyeing higher engaging hubs for my DV9 for looks like a great way to do it and a very simple installation.

[@ArisaemaDracontium]

Thanks for sharing! I will be ordering!

[@hammertime7740]

Cool, I'm gonna update my blackbird wheels! Plus ibis makes the black bird 35mm internal! Go ibis!

[@sirvince7853]

I think Chris King has been very successful as a component manufacturer. Albeit, costly to purchase a set of King hubs but they sell all the parts to support those hubs for years. They just released the Gen4 drive system which makes it more affordable for switching between HG, XD and MS drive shell systems. I've spent thousands of dollars on tools! Back in 2007, I needed tools that were very expensive for what they did......$120 for a single purpose tool is expensive for most people. So, as a MechEngr I just started designing my own specialty tools and making them at work in the R&D Lab.

[@davidgordon9048]

I was looking for a similar upgrade for my crank bros synthesis e hub, without success. No luck. I hate having to spend the additional $$ for a replacement.

[@evanl889]

Awesome videos, huge supporter, longtime watcher of your channels. Sound dampening foam in that room could help with the audio it worked for me. It should cut out that echo.

[@SpokesmanMTB]

you just gave me a reason to keep my Ibis Logo hubs. Thanks for this video!

[@chrisbunker2573]

SRAM does that. Pretty much everything is backwards compatible with their drivetrains.

[@BigBrainParty]

I believe transmission derailleurs aren't compatible with non-transmission cassettes. But fir the most part, i do love how sram is so cross compatible with their previous stuff.

[@chrisbunker2573]

@@BigBrainParty ya sorry I probably should’ve said the older eagle stuff is but the newer T Type isn’t from what I heard lol. I don’t know much about the new drivetrains but I am interested in trying it.

[@Stiil_tippin_on_4fours]

I have an old set of non boost roam 50, could I upgrade those?

[@mybadvideos]

I like handlebars that have adjustable length like the carbon ones from Ibis.

[@mybadvideos]

Thanks for doing this video I am considering this exact upgrade!

[@ThomasDiFrancesco-Schäfer]

Great part👍. Why buying a new wheel if only the freehub is broken?? This part is good thought.😎 To save money, I often buy used parts, especially for my 26" bikes. 26" is dead, they say, but there's still a lot of nice bikes to drive.

[@ackeheh]

This is great. I bought a new dt swiss wheel which was quite expensive in my opinion. Came with 18 POE. Which even to me as a beginner was a joke. How can they even put those in their wheels? So then I had to spend another 100$ to get the 54 tooth upgrade. Getting 70+ POE for that price is fantastic. I ended up paying like 400$ just to get a decent wheel with mid POE.

[@50whatnomadtravelnursemtb5]

Nice, I still have a 27.5 ibis wheelset sitting around, now I can upgrade the hub! Time to get another ibis bike haha. I like that SRAM makes the NX cassette that is HG compatible....if you've got an older bike its a work around to go 12spd. Hmmm, I'm trying to think of other things, well Ibis comes to mind again, their handle bar is adjustable without cutting them!

[@BigBrainParty]

I love that nx cassette, ive used it many times! I totally forgot about that one.

[@controller2152]

I love it. Saving money is Key.

[@soco4949]

Currently running older DT 240 wheel set with 56T star ratchet upgrade ($130) and it's great. The ability to affordably upgrade a stock Ibis hub's POE would seriously influence me to consider one of their bikes over a competitor's bike if both had low engagement hubs.

[@aaronbehindbars]

I thought the DT 370 used the same star ratchet as the 350. They have different freehub bodies (370 uses the Ratchet LN body which has the sealing mechanism as part of the body where the 350 has the sealing mechanism on the hub). I have a set of Roval Traverse Alloy wheels which came with Roval hubs using 370 internals and the Ratchet LN freehub. I also have a set of Roval Traverse Carbons which use a 350 rear hub. Alloys had a 18T star ratchet and I upgraded it to the 36T I pulled out of my Carbons (which got the 54T). That said, it is still more expensive to upgrade a DT Star Ratchet hub since both the 36T and 54T kits are over $100 and that doesn't include the cost of a freehub body if you happen to need to switch that out like I did. It cost me nearly $200 to upgrade and repurpose an existing wheelset I already had. Given that this 72 POE upgrade is only $10 more than the standard freehub makes it even more amazing because that makes having different freehubs to suit your cassette a pretty cheap affair. Bravo to Ibis.

[@tracymcmanus550]

You are right if the 370 is an LN. the older versions you have to do the hack upgrade that he was talking about. So the star ratchet upgrade kit doesn’t work for those

[@BigBrainParty]

Yes, i was referring to the older ones. Thank goodness dt upgrades the recent 370s

[@heywood165]

Technically, if you give your old bike to a friend (I usually do) the bike companies also lose out on a sale...😂

[@jeffsharp4982]

Yes, worth it.

[@porschephiliac4356]

Over the last 20 years, I've spent over $100,000 on tools. I'm an auto technician. Its becoming increasingly prohibitive to wrench, and we're seeing a trend of new techs bailing just because of tool cost and required diversity. But yes, high engagement free hub ftw

[@mattd7814]

Do you know if these upgraded freehub’s fit the older Ibis S35 wheels/hubs or is it just for the Blackbird Send wheels? (Edit: never mind, looks like it does work as well as for any other Ibis wheels since 2017, nice!)

[@BigBrainParty]

Yeah, pretty amazing. I can confirm that it's not just for the blackbird send wheels

[@Steve-hu7rk]

I always thought it was black beard wheels...

[@alistermccallum]

What is hub engagement? Sincerely a fixed gear rider 😅

[@DontWorryImAPilot]

You know when you go from slowing with your legs to pushing with your legs? Freehub engagement is like the slop in our knees as we go from pull to push. I love my fixed gear bike...but it's definitely a sore transition when I spend time away from it and come back!

[@Trevor2458Italia]

Great for a hardtail, but the rest of the world is starting to realize and prioritize solving the negative impacts of pedal kickback, which is made worse from this "upgrade".

[@BigBrainParty]

Pedal kickback will depend on your suspension design. The nice part is that this is optional. Those that want high engagement can do it, and those who worry about pedal kickback wont need to