Is It Worth It To Take Out A Loan For Medical School?

Is It Worth It To Take Out A Loan For Medical School?
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[@cdog4100]

This kid comes from wildly poor background, and he still gets a 4.0. This is who we need to support.

[@jazlyncunningham7686]

Jason Young they aren’t. There is always a shortage of doctors. And some people don’t wanna do a profession that pays a lot but they dislike.

[@jazlyncunningham7686]

Jason Young that’s great for you. I’m glad that you have a good job and savings right out of college It’s just personally not what I plan to do, which is fine. So we can agree to disagree.

[@Dreamer-kd2jv]

Jason Young I’m sorry man but I highly doubt that what you’re saying is true. Why, because if you had gotten into John Hopkins you would have the necessary skills to do a proper market research on physicians salaries, where you would have discovered that they have been growing steadily year after year, about 7% (reference medscape) Emergency medicine was up 20k, psych 50k, etc... So yeah, and this is coming from an ACTUAL MS3 in Cornel. The opportunity cost is real, but only if you plan to go into: investment banking, IT, or computer/petroleum engineering, and that’s assuming the med student you’re comparing yourself to ends up in primary care. Forget about that opportunity cost if you’re comparing yourself to someone who matched orthopedics, plastics, derm, radiology, etc. The odds of an engineer or any other profesión making 400k a year is slim, unless you patent something, become a successful entrepreneur, or somehow in four years manage to become ceo of a large corporation.

[@Dreamer-kd2jv]

Jason Young Again, you’re absolutely wrong about what you’re talking about in medicine. The ONLY specialty that takes 7 years, which btw is the longest of all the specialties, is neurosurgery and they make 700k a year starting. Do you see how wrong your math is here? 8-9 years, like you have no clue what you’re talking about. You’re “friend” goes through 4 years of med school while you magically get a starting job at 240k a year. Let’s say that’s true. Then your friend does a 3 year emergency medicine residency. That’s 7 years. Now she makes 350k working ONLY 12 days a month. If she wanted to work 16 days a month she would be making 450k a year, at which point your math is just wrong.

[@Dreamer-kd2jv]

Jason Young I don’t pretend to know about the IT field, like you pretend to know about medicine. Any other physician or med student reading out comments is going to call you out just like I am because you really have no clue what you’re talking about. I could care less if you don’t believe I’m an MS3 at Cornell. Why? Because I know I am and my extreme depth of knowledge should make that obvious already. You’re the one spouting a 240k unheard of starting salary for IT. My brother is a computer engineer and even he only makes 180k, and that’s after having experience. But again, I don’t pretend to know the complete in and outs of the IT field.

[@cdogvlog5557]

Dave clearly has no idea how intense medical school is. You need to spend basically all your time studying not cutting grass/ delievering pizza.

[@arturolozano3198]

@@RC-rk2xs Even pre-med school is hard to find time to get a job and go deliver pizzas or something else.

[@simondave00]

@@arturolozano3198 I was pre dental in undergrad and was making about $2000 a month driving kids to school and giving music lessons on the weekends. It's totally doable depending on what your side hustle is.

[@gavintackett5626]

@Natty Fatty PowerliftingFound the hopeless broke person. Do me a favor, you can keep your hopeless opinions of generalization but keep it to yourself.

[@alainl1211]

Natty Fatty Powerlifting thats what broke people say.

[@pkasper10]

@Natty Fatty Powerlifting that's why their rich, right?

[@Aventerra01]

I have a friend who is in medical school and just to stay academically competitive, he needs to study 9 hours a day plus classes. I doubt he can hold a job. Academics in med school is not a joke unlike undergrad

[@thelogicaldanger]

He is 1st year undergrad, not med school.

[@arturolozano3198]

I agree!

[@pkasper10]

It's tough to study all day, plus go to class and work part time; but so is paying back 100s of thousands of dollars of debt

[@Dazak]

Payton Kasper, people always take loans that they pay back. 200-300k loan with a guaranteed income of 200K per year isn’t a bad choice.

[@hrvgim]

DrazaK wrong. I make 6 figures as a college drop out.

[@docgravenshmit6692]

My wife and I are both physicians. We graduated from Temple U 20 years ago. We were fortunate enough to get into a state funded medical school so it was half the cost of private medical schools. We still had to take out loans. I know Dave is anti-school debt and I agree with him for undergraduate education. There is no need to go to an expensive undergraduate college. In our case it was worth it to borrow money for med school because there really was no other way to finance our medical education and now we have a very good income. There was no scholarship money available for med school. Dave is incorrect about need based scholarship for med school. Also there really is no way you can work your way through medical school because school is so demanding of your time and energy. There are clinical rotations where you work crazy hours. The one thing I may have done differently is joined the military while in medical school. Some of my classmates did and the Army paid for medical school and then they had to serve for several years afterward. although I disagree with Dave on borrowing for med school, I agree with him on many other things. for example I drive a 15 year-old Honda with 150K miles. every time I'm tempted to get a new car, I watch some Dave Ramsey videos!

[@Elizabeth-yg2mg]

Best answer!

[@Wildledroses]

Awesome job! Docs are known for wild spending, glad to see that self control

[@meaghanceciliawood8972]

Current med student- this is great insight!

[@WISHBONEL7]

Doc - How long did it take for you to break even on your educational investment ?, relatiive to all of the time and money that you spent to obtain it ?.

[@jeniffercollado69]

Great answer Dr.

[@nkyryry]

Stay at the free school. Rent doesn’t accumulate interest like $10K a year in student loans will.

[@013941829]

Dave MUST stop recommending MD/PhD routes as a way of getting free medical school. This is simply not a logical option and he is ill informed about what those programs entail. If he really knew what they are like, he would never mention them again.

[@Dazak]

Apart from these programs being really hard to get into, why arent MD/PhD programs not a logical option?

[@meymay11]

Exactly. I do research with just my MD. It’s a doctoral level degree so you don’t need a PhD. You’re just adding on years of bs from faculty.

[@013941829]

DrazaK they are a 9-10 year commitment with very low pay. You MUST be passionate about academic research because you will work in a lab for 5-6 years. If you aren’t 100% all in on scientific research, you’ll never finish the PhD portion and you’ll be stuck with no degrees and wasted years of your life with no career options. MD/PhD programs are for those who KNOW without a doubt that’s what they want to do for the rest of their lives. Those programs are not to be viewed as a viable option for the person who is interested in saving money on med school.

[@Dazak]

Jared Evatt, 8-9 years is realistic timeline for an MD/PhD. But I would dispute the low pay as you must be counting just the Student stipend received during that time without factoring in the tuition free medical school education. Adding those both up, it would equal to ~30K/year stipend + ~200K tuition assistance making it roughly ~50k per year to study. And getting a PhD isn’t that really that hard, you need perseverance and patience. And at the end of it, you will be among the small percentage of physician scientists in the country and have the option either to go into private practice or academia. Not a bad option.

[@Dazak]

HelenaJ, you could. No one said you need a PhD to do research. But we are discussing if MD/PhD route is a viable option or not. If you think a PhD is all about getting bs from faculty, I am sorry for your experience.

[@ericwreyes1]

There’s a way to get out of med school debt free. Have rich parents. Otherwise get ready to drop out if you try to keep a job while studying 16 hours a day

[@JohnstasBACK]

Thank you for the harsh truth. Any recommendations on what program to go into after receiving a Bachelor of Biological Science Degree... ?

[@ericwreyes1]

JohnstasBACK universities/colleges with ties or funding from the state tend to be cheaper

[@jacobpereramd8094]

As a med student graduating this year.... you dont have to study 16 hours a day. Not even when I was preparing for my boards exam was it that much. Not saying its easy, but the difficulty of med school is wildly over exaggerated sometimes.

[@JorgefromtheO]

@@jacobpereramd8094 Yes Yes yes

[@FreeAgent797]

Dave has to take into account study time and commitment it takes on the path to becoming a doctor. Cutting grass and delivering pizza can be tough while trying to focus on your grades.

[@rialjohnson]

Yes doing hard things is tough. He is trying to do a hard thing. There's a reason most people don't accomplish it or even seek it out. If he follows through he will be rewarded handsomely.

[@louib716]

I can speak on authority to something somewhat analogous as I'm a dentist. Dave Ramsay's advice is pretty good for undergrad (mostly), but I absolutely wouldnt apply that advice to medical and dental doctorate programs. Im going to refer to the DDS route from this point on since this is my expertise. First of all, unless you're literally top of your class with multiple offers, you cant be super choosy about trying to get into inexpensive in state schools because of the level of competitiveness. You pick the best school that accepted you, and that's where you go. Dental school is so competitive that people who are perfectly qualified dont always get in. If you reject the offer of the only school that accepted you, theough no fault of your own, YOU MAY NEVER GET ACCEPTED ANYWHERE ELSE AGAIN. This is a real thing that happens all the time. Second, the average student is not going to be able to hold down consistent employment once they leave undergrad. I even quit my job in undergrad because I was worried about my grades (C's get degrees, but they dont get you much else). Dental school is literally like having a part time job on top of a full time job. I was waking up at 2 am to study for some tests. Dental school IS your job at this stage. Third, yes, there are programs that will pay for your school. I was in one. However, that was still a competitive program that less than 4% of applicants were accepted into at the time. Even then, I accumulated 30k debt because the program didnt cover supplies that wouldn't be covered by tuition. Absolutely be sensible with spending while in school, and yes, absolutely hit the ground running paying off debt the second you get your first job. You do NOT need a land rover and a Caribbean vacation when you're half a million dollars in debt, but dont listen to dave when it comes to medical or dental school. The unemployment rate for these professions is absurdly low. You will have a job before you even graduate and you will be able to pay off the debt in a timely manner if you are not an idiot with money.

[@lacy-annbenjamin5419]

Thank you for your post!!!!

[@lovefunkrockmusic]

Watch Dr. Mike’s KZbin channel. He was able to work as a night shift nurse his first two years of med school every Saturday and Sunday. During clerkship years, did not work in IM rotations, but on the other rotations, he worked every Sunday. Fourth year of med school he worked as needed as a flight nurse. And he stopped working the day he graduated. Its possible. Even though, I thought that was insane and he still got into General Surgery residency.

[@louib716]

@@lovefunkrockmusic that is insanely unrealistic for the average student in that program. I was waking up at 2am JUST TO STUDY. It wouldnt even be worth it even if it was possible. You're already spending an average of 60 hours on class, projects, and studying every single week. Unless you're an exceptional student and dont get easily burnt out, the most I'd plan on working is when you have school breaks.

[@sammiller552]

Dave ramsey cant see to get this med school thing to conform to his principles. Med school is a different beast.

[@yme3267]

So is architecture 😅

[@bettypresley2854]

Right now he is premed undergrad,the first 4 years of college,he could work through that

[@WB2593]

I’m in MD school and I agree that his methods for a debt-free degree don’t translate to a 250k+ professional degree. But his messages about budgeting and paying back loans ASAP is solid.

[@lowmax4431]

Alot of degrees require the complete attention of the student.

[@sammiller552]

@Big Bubba welp the only reasonable debt-free option of becoming a doctor that i know of is joining the military to pay for the schooling

[@frankiesmom8478]

You can not work in medical school period.... that’s not an option at all. Finish as fast as you can, don’t become a primary care doc (ROI) is not good

[@sweetiee3704]

Yeah that’s seriously untrue. Primary care doctors are in a huge shortage and there are ppl making $285,000+ starting out

[@jacobpereramd8094]

You can absolutely work while in med school (as someone who did just that). No one said its easy, but it is an option.

[@ChadbourneZitek]

People keep saying this guy is premed, and therefore he should follow Dave's advice, but they're not understanding that even in the premed/predent/prepharma capacity, you really need to put 100% of your focus on school in order to be competitive and successful. Getting into medical/dental school is no joke. My local school only accepts 3% of applicants per cycle. In order to get accepted, grades must be tip-top shape, extracurriculars must abound, shadowing and clinical exposure is needed, as well as research experience. All of this must be done while keeping the grades up, studying for the MCAT, and keeping family life going as well. It is no joke, even at the premed level (if you're serious about premed).

[@ohwell808]

Holding a job while in medical is INSANE , your studying 8-16 hours on any given day plus class

[@richardleston5237]

One medical student I know studies 12 hours a day, and has 10 hours of classes. Luckily he is able to get about 10 hours of sleep a day to balance things out, and still has an hour or two a day for extracurriculars and socializing.

[@ohwell808]

Richard Leston yup that sounds exactly right !

[@Thecrazynecklacelady]

Dave should start a scholarship program for law and medical students.

[@reesercliff]

He should start a pizza delivery because apparently he would pay very well lol

[@runningdebate2670]

As a physician, do NOT take time off, medical school, residency and fellowship are a long process, you don't want to be 40 years old going through a fellowship. Get it done and out of the way, the cost isn't a big deal granted you don't specialize in something like family medicine or internal medicine.

[@arthrodea]

Fellow physician here... and totally agree!

[@runningdebate2670]

@Wiliam Forsythe right.... You're pretty aggressive aren't you?

[@Dreamer-kd2jv]

Wiliam Forsythe lol, the funny thing to me is that you call him broke and dumb, but I’m 99.9% sure you don’t make even 30% of that attending physicians salary.

[@gtmusica]

Ill be starting med school whem im 25...

[@sheilabastida6145]

I want to be a gynecologist should I do it I’m 17 and this upcoming September I’m going to be a senior in high school. So do I need to go to medical school in order to become a gynecologist or no? And should I do it or no? I’m stuck because of the price tag it’s going to have once I leave medical school.

[@sammu]

Deliver pizzas while medical school? What?

[@vladm.6859]

If you can have even a part time job while doing good in medical school you re really special

[@ljr3061]

Dave needs a reality check when it comes to the costs and work involved for professional programs.

[@ChrisInvests]

He's going to be a doctor but he moved to NY with only $8,000 saved and was surprised when his money was gone... 🤔

[@ludwigvonmiseswasright4380]

Doctors bust have to be books smart

[@cocodakilla]

@David DeVito or he could have studied near home and then gone to new york for longer and with more money.

[@Antilleslucayan]

Natty Fatty Powerlifting lol man don’t be dissing my house. I get a nice breeze every time the N train passes by.

[@lmanderson2012]

NYC is expensive when you don't know how to navigate the city. He can find a much cheaper place, he just has to be willing to travel. I pay $775 a month and live in Brooklyn. I traded money for commute time. If he claims residency, tuition for the City University of NY is super cheap. $6500 per year for a full-time student. He also needs a good pre-med advisor. If he goes to Hunter or City College, they both have amazing programs and strong affiliations with world-class hospitals. That would help him get a job so he can get his hospital experience and get paid at the same time. Then the biggest thing is not keeping up with the Jones. You can easily spend pass your eyeballs here but you don't have to. There are plenty of places to buy cheap food that are a subway or bus ride away and it's tax free (essential grocery items aren't taxed). You don't need a car so at most you're paying $127 a month for a monthly metrocard. You can live here as cheap as you would living in a small town, you're just trading living space for access to literally everything at your fingertips.

[@aiyamariabanat]

Medical school is too challenging to hold a job down too

[@jacobpereramd8094]

Disagree! I graduate this year and have worked as a tutor and done other side hustles to make cash. Totally doable.

[@pimpballer3]

Dave: beans and rice until you have 400k and pay cash 😂

[@JK20239]

Dude if I saved up 400k, I rather save for retirement

[@Ms-Jones]

🤣🤣🤣

[@mathildaclerpha9675]

😂😂😂

[@TheExcellentInvestor]

A doctor I work with told me MD stands for Major Debt that’s all I got to know.

[@TheExcellentInvestor]

Natty Fatty Powerlifting It’s definitely one of those things that would be worth doing long-term. Just not if you went back to school in your 30s. IMO. Too much opportunity loss at that point.

[@TheExcellentInvestor]

PoopCoin Patrick it’s true!

[@WISHBONEL7]

@PoopCoin Patrick He has already addressed that isue in one of his other videos.

[@WISHBONEL7]

@Natty Fatty Powerlifting The break even point is the question.? .

[@JasonSmith-ef8ci]

@@TheExcellentInvestorI disagree, there are not many opportunities out there to make ~300K.

[@ladyt618]

Title is wrong. He's asking about taking out a loan for college. He's only finished his first year of college.

[@royalrugby4869]

I cannot speak to medical school, but having been in Law School I have seen in the case of law school it is often a mistake to try and return later after you save. I get the idea, you want to save money. The problem is when you are young and in school you very academic mindset, and once you get out of it, and go work in the world for a year or two, it's very difficult to come back. Not saying it's impossible, just it's something to be aware of, there is a cost to delaying things.

[@afrothundar]

4th Year Medical Student Here: 1. You don’t need to go to some fancy NY school to get a pre-med degree. You can honestly go to any college, and as long as you take the required courses to get into medical school you’ll be fine. 2. Avoiding med school debt is hard, but if you’re a good student some schools will give you partial tuition. Also NYU medical school is now free if you get accepted thanks to some rich donor. But more than likely you’ll have to take on debt for it. I’d recommend trying to go to your state med school It’ll saves you some money. 3. If you’re a young dude or dudett and your in shape, you can join the military. It’s a pretty decent gig. They pay for your medical school, and give you a pretty hefty stipend every month (more than the average med students monthly budget). The only catch is you have to give them 4 years of service since they paid 4 years of med school. Most of the time they just have you on some military base, working a VA, or oversees at a base. It’s not a bad deal especially if you do it while you’re young.

[@LG123ABC]

I don't see why working a factory job for a few years is such a terrible option if it helps you avoid debt. I worked for a couple of years between high school and college and I don't think my career was harmed in any way. In fact, I think it helped by allowing me to be a little more mature when starting college.

[@wojo2248]

He could also look into early acceptance programs affiliated with his in state college. They are usually much cheaper and “easier” to get into. I got accepted to a DO school at 17 through a early acceptance program!

[@uni_versetones]

Agree. You can major in art anywhere and just take the required pre-recs to get into med school. Also all the other stuff. Agree.

[@MimiNwabuokuMD]

I seriously don’t get why people seem to imagine that there is this all-hallowed, unicorn “Pre-Med” major, it really does not exist. Me, I majored in English (albeit with a minor in Chemistry), and that was quite enough to get me ready for med school (August 2020, because I’m doing stuff). Young ‘un needs to attend the most cost-effective undergrad institute that will provide him with the pre-requisites, and continue to knock that stellar GPA of his 🏅🏅🏅🏅as far outta the park as he can muster. Attending a NYC college is not a guarantee of admission to the med school of his dreams. I attended a private university in NJ and got admission to both Rutgers and Columbia, both pretty prestigious schools.

[@MimiNwabuokuMD]

BumbleBees I have a good laugh every time I realize that yes, the proverbial degree in Basket Weaving is an actual thing. University of Georgia. Read the website and howl!

[@wesjimez2941]

Delivering pizzas doesn't pay 1500 a month. If it was that easy everyone would do it. Dave isn't right on everything like he thinks.

[@mikeekim007007]

I deliver 4 nights a week and I bring in 1200-1500 a month.

[@wesjimez2941]

Every neighborhood doesn't pay 1500 to deliver pizzas. Plus you have to calculate the wear and tear on your car and gas. Dave has no concept of reality. When you make millions of dollars it's hard to reason with low income people.

[@Gyiinnkkm]

Depends on neighborhood n location cuz I make 2500+ a month working 5 days a week

[@wesjimez2941]

I asked a pizza delivery guy in my area and they are lucky to make a grand doing that. Plus it's gross income. You have to take out taxes and car ownership costs. If it was this easy everyone would do it.

[@Gyiinnkkm]

Nick Pump den he shud stop working if it’s less den a thousand a month

[@___________________191]

Dave, most medical schools don’t even allow you to work. The studying is so rigorous. It’s not very possible to go to medical school debt free unless you have $200k laying around, or you go into the military.

[@Tunechi65]

Yup. Wasn't allowed to work here

[@vesnaswanson2600]

Working while you are at medical or nursing school is impossible. I slept four hours a day max between my classes and clinical assignments. Many people had a emotional and physical breakdown. Suggesting to work on a top of clinical work is absolutely unrealistic! Finish your school and start paying your debt right away!

[@AaAa-qq5wr]

Definitely not impossible in nursing school

[@Hallowsaw]

I can agree with dave but I also disagree with him. I worked 45 hours and went to college at the same time. I do not regret doing that except it killed my relationships. I literally only had time for work and school and i never saw my loved ones. Yeah i fully paid for college but my GPA was only a 3.0 when it could have easily been a 3.5 or 3.7 if i didnt work. My wife did a doctorate degree in pharmacology and based off of what she told me she had to do for school I 100% understand why she had no time to work. She came out with tons of student loans. We both agree the way I did college was a little better. Her job wont start being in the black for 10 years after she has been out and it would take her 15 years after college to catch up with me and I never finished college. I quit and learned a trade that payed more than my major would

[@ayannovruzov5671]

Medical school without student loans may be possible for some, there are certainly options.. From my experience they are fairly limited. And forget about holding down a job.. School becomes your job. There is a good deal of uncertainty not only pertaining to which school you end up attending, but also which specialty you end up entering. I had close to 340k coming out.. Have my Step 2 cut out for me..

[@wildflowersmile3224]

I work with a guy going to med school and he comes to work looking like a zombie. He can barely handle the job (and he is a very bright kid). Working and going to med school has to be very demanding!

[@roolyfe]

I deliver pizza 🍕 @dominos you can’t make $1500/ month! Fuel ⛽️ maintenance and awful tips @TheDaveRamseyShow

[@eriknobles3946]

It puts a huge toll on ur car 2

[@ProSkillGuides]

I love how Dave just keeps it simple and sweet when he gives advice

[@GenExDividendInvestor]

Why not find some roommates and go cheaper on rent, and then start hustling at night (Uber).

[@arturolozano3198]

Unlike other degrees, med school and odontology are hard to keep up with your studies and work at the same time. I have a business degree (Debt free) and I worked since day one but my fiancee was studying to be a dentist and barely had some time to sleep.

[@JoyofRVing]

🤣🤣🤣You don’t even have time to do anything else when in med school. You have chapters and chapters of books to read and information to memorize. Only those who’ve been there can understand.

[@ChadbourneZitek]

So when are you going to study? You are aware that in order to get into med school, grades must be absolutely top notch, and one must also do extracurriculars like volunteering and research. You can't waste time delivering pizzas and cutting grass even as a serious premed or predent.

[@kjjlskdjfljf]

Apply to be a resident assistant in your school's dorms! They provide housing and food, as well as a great activity to put on medical school application and should give you a recommendation too. Moving forward, you shouldn't waste your time on jobs that deliver pizza, aim for those that are either works with the public community or scientific research. You can put them on your application, get a good recommendation from it, and they have less physical requirements so you won't be too tired to study later on. Also apply for research internships for the summers. They're normally three month programs that pay $4-5k, and most of the time just consist of sitting in meetings and shadowing other people. For medical school, there are md/PhD programs that will cover all the tuitions and provide a 25-35k per year stipend, but it would require you to study for both degrees: md is four years, phd is 3-6 years, so you are looking at a minimum of 7 years of school, all paid for but only making 25-35k per year.

[@joshmcgoo]

Medical student here! Go to a state school. Save 20k a year. Stony brook has a 3 year MD program (I'm in it). Apply for that. Save a year of tuition and get an EXTRA year of attending physician income!

[@TT.100]

Born and raised and still in NYC. 1200 rent. You gotta find a a roommate,or just rent a room for the time being.There's plenty of rooms in queens, Brooklyn etc. Even staten island. You might have to move into the hood, north brooklyn or south bronx, and get a roommate. You can do it. Like Ramsey said, instead of delivery you could even drive uber, but upstate ny or l.i since nyc you need a TLC license. Find a roommate in a cheaper rent area!

[@pkal244]

You can fit three guys in a 3br flex to easily find a $1200 rental in UES. That's what I did for a while 👍

[@theelephant2887]

Here it is again. The pizza delivery solution 😃

[@ChadbourneZitek]

Right, because I'll have so much time to study and get that 4.0GPA when I'm delivering pizzas and cutting grass.

[@bettinaorevil5056]

I went to trade school for 1 year, improved my income 1st, I am a pre-med too. I do have a mortgage, no student loans, paying out of pocket/FASFA/Scholarships I am using for my A.A.; when I do get accepted into med school, there's no way I can work full time and go to residency also.

[@Sweetness8338]

If you get into med school and finish, then residency would be your job. You wouldn’t have to work

[@Sav1010]

Same! I worked for 5 years to make enough to go part time and work through school. I am still taking loans for my bachelors, in order to pay for tuition. I spent about 10hrs a day, 5-6 days a week on school on top of working the original job and picking up another. There is still no way to pay out of pocket, and I have no car loan debt otherwise. Just paying to live, and my boyfriend is paying the mortgage.

[@KLMosely]

Bruh. Go back home after you graduate. Stack your bread and wait to see if you get accepted into medical school, then go where you get accepted. Or go to the Military, they will pay for it.

[@jovandraganescu1406]

Someone needs to talk to him to make him see the big picture. If he can’t afford rent in ny he needs to live at home and work part time around school. That 40k in loans will be a lot less and compared to med school debt almost nothing.

[@dominicankid1001]

Great advise Davy

[@richardleston5237]

I thought the title said “middle school” lol

[@robertmontgomery7158]

First year as an undergraduate and he thinks he is going to Med school? He is clueless

[@afrothundar]

Robert Montgomery why?

[@afrothundar]

David DeVito idk about changing majors 3 times, I’ve never heard that stat. But I understand the point that ppl change their mind, but idk if you can say that makes him clueless. I know plenty of ppl, including myself who started as a freshman and were determined to become doctors and go to medical school, now 5 years later a bunch of us about to be doctors in June. Point is I don’t see how having a dream/goal that is hard to achieve is categorized as being clueless.

[@annalesher3753]

The AVERAGE college student changes their major three times. Not every college student does. I kept my major through undergrad and went to grad school and got the same degree I said I wanted when I was 16. Some people know what they want early and don’t stop ‘til they achieve it. This young man might be one of them!

[@afrothundar]

Anna Lesher that’s all I’m saying. Identify with this young man, at his age I know what I wanted and I worked to get it. My only objection to the originally post was just calling him clueless. Just because many freshman are, doesn’t mean this young man is.

[@heidithaw1072]

If he maintains the GPA and does well on the MCAT he might.

[@rondelllewis6163]

bruh take out the loan . U can't go to medical school and deliver pizzas lol

[@ashaburrell2820]

Y’all don’t listen. He clearly said he’s a FIRST YEAR PRE-MED not IN medical school. I know plenty of people who are currently working and are pre-med/nursing

[@ChadbourneZitek]

Perhaps first year, yes -- but once you are doing your upper level sciences like ochem, physics, A&P, biochem, etc. you will need to focus 100% and be very serious about studying, grades, volunteering, research, and other extracurriculars like shadowing (and family, if you have one). It is a full-time commitment even at the pre-med level, especially once you get into the hard sciences.

[@zachwalters8001]

@chad I agree fully. People don’t understand that who have never done. Not only are the classes hard to begin with but you need to be getting all As and such to even stay competitive for med school. Hard to do that while working 30 hours a week. Also pre med consists of lots of long lab hours too.

[@reesercliff]

Dave has no idea how intense medical school is. My Fiance is in Optometry school, she has to spend every waking minute of the day studying just to keep up. My father is a retired surgeon and he agrees he had no time to work as he had to study until it was time to sleep. Unless Dave is suggesting people start using methamphetamines and not sleep at all

[@indiawashington-charles9739]

I did not touch any offered loans to me when I was in FNP-MSN school. I'm grateful I did not cause I owe nothing to institution. But medical school is harder, so I'm indifferent on topic .

[@OmarAbdulMalikDHEdMPASPACPAPro]

This guy sounds VERY young. He can join the Uniform Health Services Coprs, work for the Indian Health Services or, Federal Bureau of Prisons (if he does primary care). There's options. Unless he's a gifted student, he shouldn't deliver pizza. Some of my classmates and I, worked as security guards. We'd do weekend double shifts, sitting behind desks, in nice office buildings. I think it's the only thing a student could do whilst in medical school. We got a lot of studying done.👮🏽‍♂️❤️📚 But, medical school is WAY harder and longer than PA school. I hope this young man gets his MD/DO.🙂👋🏽👨🏽‍⚕️

[@soinlove8306]

Most factory jobs pay well. I am not ashamed to say I worked a factory job while in nursing school, I honestly miss it now.

[@FreedomsNurse]

Wish there were factories near me. What did it pay?

[@emilylongton3623]

Dave Ramsey, what do you do with degrees that you need to study & won’t have time to work? This degree is very competitive & medical school is 8yrs. Along with Nursing degrees. 🤷‍♀️

[@zachwalters8001]

He definitely has a good head on he’s shoulders at a young age he’s already thinking about ways to finance college debt free as much as possible. Most people just take the loans and never think twice. He’s 4.0 as well is very good and I’m sure he spends a lot of time studying. However, I doubt he’ll keep he’s 4.0 gpa in pre-med working every night. A 4.0 is needed these days to even get consider for an MD school. However, with the cost of med school and living expenses I don’t think it’s possible to not get some debt even after scholarships. Plus an MD-PhD program may take 8+years.

[@ALXSSA]

i mean if he is going to med school to be a doctor and he only has to take out 10k in loans... maybe it wouldn't be that bad.

[@michaelwoods4495]

He's wrong. Someone Dave never mentions who will pay for medical school. The U.S. Army. Become an Army doctor and they'll cover it..

[@ChadbourneZitek]

Doesn't help people like me that the military won't accept for health reasons. There is never a 100% catch-all. It is a great option though!

[@adrianortiz9486]

@@ChadbourneZitek I have asthma but ima gonna see if I can work around that

[@Odinwain]

the army is not the way to become a doc, the army has there own medical school and its not as easy as you think.

[@user-lu6yg3vk9z]

Tell him don’t go to medical school. It is not worth it. Physicians are being replaced with mid-level providers and machines.

[@joshgoeltz1682]

The military will fund medical school under the HPSP program in exchange for four years service.

[@special1740]

But they will assign you to a residency where they need you, even if it is a on a submarine.

[@robertmontgomery7158]

Join the Army and they have money for Med school

[@Blueman2018]

Robert Montgomery there you go. Join the reserves and go part time or active duty And be debt free.

[@yme3267]

So the government pays for the debt. Thanks tax dollars 🙃

[@armandol1826]

The Guy With a Y someone's got to have the debt

[@yme3267]

@@armandol1826 but Dave says no debt? 🤷‍♂️🙃😂 So pawn the debt to others. Ahhhhhh.... truly honorable.

[@armandol1826]

@@yme3267 it's all pawned to the tax payers lol.

[@lorenzovonmatterhorn7402]

I worked 2 years before going to medical school... saved up over 120k cuz i lived at home and worked a mini job - 15-20hrs a week the most just to pay for food or bills. When i finished i was still about 100k in debt. I was debt free in 2 years. Its hard. I just started living somewhat of a good life and im 32 now.

[@jehmusic3959]

Stay at the school that pays full tuition! I think the easier thing would be to move out of town a ways and just have a longer commute to the school. Work overtime like Dave was saying to start saving up for med school.

[@smithersrob]

Medical school 100% debt free is pretty close to impossible, I scraped together what scholarships i could and worked in all but my final year. I managed to come out with just under $50k in debt which I paid off in my first three years, now I'm earning over $250k and growing. Debt on useless degrees and things that go down in value are a wealth killer. The reason home mortgages are a form of debt Dave can countenance is because they go up in value over time. Medical school fits into the same category. Minimise the debt by putting as much down up front as possible of course, just as you would with your home, but not going to medical school if you cant afford to do it 100% debt free is a good way of missing out on a $250-400k annual income

[@DinaStrange]

Dave is dreaming.

[@blackdahlia4232]

If you are smart and can swing the schooling, the debt will be worth it. Here in GA I've spoken with a nurse in medical school, he told me the debt here is 200,000 or so. Worth it. You can make that in 2 years easily.

[@lmanderson2012]

If he claims residency in NYC, CUNY Medical School is about $20k a year for in-state residents, which I believe is the same as SUNY Downstate. He should also look into BS/MD programs. They have one at Brooklyn College and if you maintain your GPA then I want to say there's no tuition, even for medical school. Also, he can find a cheaper place to live. He should look at parts of Brooklyn, Queens, and parts of the Bronx, Bronx being the cheapest. I rent a room for $775 in BK so he can find a place that's less than $1100. He should also look into becoming a research assistant via work study at his school and he'll get paid $15/hour and get the experience he needs to qualify for med school, and also do summer research programs where they pay for room, board, travel, and a stipend between $4000 - $6000 for the summer. Is the loan worth it? Yes...but there are ways to reduce the amount you take out. Since he's doing a STEM degree, once he's done, he could find a job working in one of the hospitals as a research assistant, make about $70k a year, and if he lives off of $40k for 4 years, he can save $120k which will cash flow tuition and school related expenses. NYC is a different animal, but once you learn how to tame it you can make it here.

[@Sav1010]

This is terrible pre med advice. A 4.0 is no guarantee to medical school, and unless he can find time to manage working 30+ hours a week, maintaining that gpa, volunteering, and getting real clinical experience he won’t get in. His families income does not guarantee him any financial support for medical school outside of loans, merit scholarships are few and far between, and MD/PhD programs are even harder to get into. You have to want to spend most of your time doing research, not seeing patients, and you need an extreme amount of research experience, which will be very hard to do working full time delivering pizzas.

[@wadeharris348]

I went to law school full-time and did not work in the process. If you're in medical school, you need to do the same thing. I understand Dave doesn't recommend student loans, but some degrees are more challenging than others and you need to devote your entire time to your craft. You need to maintain high grades, continuously study, and learn as much as you can so this way you can have a shot with a good paying job afterwards. I would have not done as well if I was working because im not a great student so I need to focus 100% on my studies. If I was working i probably would have lost scholarship and not had the same job prospects. You need to focus on school and learning your craft. The money you make comes later. Not everyone is superman and can work and do school at the same time. I know a few people who dropped out because of it and went full-time program and did very well. I guess it depends on how bad you want it and the sacrifices you are about to make for the greater picture down the road.

[@wadeharris348]

Also if you're just looking to make money, there are way more jobs out there that are more lucrative and don't require that much time, money and sacrifice. I know computer programmers who make six figures and just did an online program. They're financially in a better position than most doctors and lawyers because they kept their standard of living low as their income rose with age and experience and never had debt.

[@Matt-cr4vv]

This is accurate especially during 1L. I’m sure some people find ways but I spent so much time adapting to the learning style in law school that first year I had a really hard time just keeping up with school itself full time and wouldn’t have been successsful if I’d had to work too. In 2L and 3L I worked part time clerking but the intensity at that point and learning curve was night and day. I lucked out in a sense because I started during the pandemic so a ton of scholarships that normally were conditional had them removed to keep enrollment up instead of people delaying a year. But it’s super common that scholarships have grade requirements and people lose their scholarships because they were trying to be Superman and then they’re stuck either with debt and no degree or paying way more and amassing a lot of debt to finish and at least have something to show for it. If your choice was to borrow $60K to make it through and not work at all or to work to try and have no debt and losing your scholarship after your first year borrow the $60K. Because if you lose the scholarship you’re now going to have to pay $60K+ for those last two years and your job prospects are hurt because of the poor grades that lost the scholarship.if you’re really about one of these higher level things just dive in and make it your profession becsuse if you half ass it you tank the options available to you 9/10 times. The number of people who try to do way too much and either fsil out or drop out because they lose a scholarship is crazy. And the cost financially and mentally long term exceeds that if they’d locked it down and focused on grad school as the profession (of course the cost with your scholarship needs to be reasonable to begin with)

[@wadeharris348]

@@Matt-cr4vv exactly! Unless you’re in their situation you don’t understand the sacrifice. Getting an advanced degree is exhausting, especially law or medical school. That requires a lot of dedication because you also need to know that your doing when entering the profession. If most of your time is spent working and always focusing on budgeting and money, you won’t know what you are doing when starting your profession. When someone is performing surgery I want to know they were focused on their education and not just budgeting money all the time.

[@shyb7847]

His mom is near my area. The tuition in PA is out of pocket. Maybe he could look into Penn State. I know they have a medical center in Hershey. If he is looking at factory jobs he could look at Hershey corps.

[@jordanterry6248]

I was a very thrifty and financially intelligent premed undergrad. I worked during summers and during my senior year when I was preparing for the MCAT. I scored at 97th percentile on the MCAT, got a 4.0 in undergrad, and graduated with about 20k in savings and no student loans. I worked hard and made the best of my undergrad years both financially and academically. However, that does not work in med school. It doesn’t matter how smart or hard working you are, you’re going to have to take big loans with very exceptions to that rule. I certainly understand the principles he pushes about college debt but it’s not applicable to medical school.

[@JohnstasBACK]

Any recommendations on what program to go into after receiving a Bachelor of Biological Science Degree... ? (Since Med School isn't an option)

[@ashermitchell2794]

This caller brings up two excellent issues with the Dave Ramsey outlook on college: 1. Transfer scholarships are extremely hard to get, and that's why I caution people who say, "Go to community college first. It's cheaper." It absolutely can be cheaper, but not always. If State School A is going to give you an 80% scholarship but you decide to go to Community College X for two years at 100% scholarship and then transfer to State School A, State School A may only give you as a transfer a 40%, leaving you paying more than you would have originally,. Also, if Dave thinks he's going to pay for college by writing essays all day, that's a huge waste of time. They aren't likely to pay out in a way that he can realistically attend college debt-free. 2. And this is a big one: No one can realistically save up for med school, law school, etc. Undergrad? Sure, maybe, if you aren't worried about going to your dream school and don't mind living frugally. But if a prospective med school student is choosing between trying to save up $200k and just take on $200k in debt and pay it as a doctor, he will pay off those loans in 1/10th the time he would have spent saving them up. Student debt is almost a requirement for professional school.

[@meymay11]

I think it was worth the debt because I made it worth while. There is a lot of misinformation about what you can do with an MD degree and within each specialty. Dave is not a doctor and like many people in this comment section, really doesn’t know what he’s talking about. This kid needs to find family members or someone he can trust who is a physician to tell him what it’s really like so he can decide whether it’s worth it or not.

[@beccamiller9929]

I first want to say that I have never heard of Pre-med being a degree unless the 2 years since I graduated colleges are changing things. Usually, you take courses and classes curated to fit your graduate school of choice pre-requiste requirements like biology, organic chemistry, biochemistry etc. You usually get a degree in Biology, Chemistry, or another Stem degree. The "Pre-professionals degrees are tracks" I went to college for a my degree in biology and curated my courses for veterinary medical school. Now I graduated 2.5 years ago, working on gaining experience and paying off the loans I do have while spending time with family and friends that I didnt get to spend while I was in college. I paid my way through as much college with scholarships and a campus job. Still working on trying to go into veterinary medicine school debt free and saving. Looking at reserves in the future when the time comes for me to apply. And second I am 30 minutes from Gettysburg, PA that he says and there are plenty of colleges he can commute to, Gettysburg college, HACC, york college, shippensburg us a cheap state school 40 minutes from Gettysburg. This guys has plenty of options as to keeping cost low if he us open to them.

[@ludwigvonmiseswasright4380]

"pre med" is a degree around here. It's a bachelors, and unemployable and useless for anything but continuing on to med school

[@oldtwinsna8347]

@David DeVito not a good analogy as medical schools do require very specific biological science courses taken, i.e. "pre-med" is where the context comes into play. if you don't take the required courses, you're not getting in. period.

[@harrykashouli9774]

Dave again, shows that he has no idea what these medical degrees entail. And his stupid pizza delivery comments are insane.

[@bettysmith7045]

Must be nice to have your college covered like the, I would't know, since I got know aide, despite living with a single mother with a low income. Unbelievable.

[@00177454419]

A lot of the comments here are off the mark. He's not in medical school, he's an undergraduate that is pre med. To get from there to medical school he needs two years of chemistry, two or more years of biology and English comprehension. He then needs to finish up with a high GPA and ace his MCATS. There's no guarantee that's going to happen and Dave is right to encourage him to avoid debt as an undergraduate. I'm not clear whether he's getting a federal grant or a scholarship from this school but it sounds like he is bound to this school. There should be alternatives. He can deliver pizza's like Dave suggests. I agree that a part time job is unreasonable for someone in Med school, but its not unreasonable for an undergrad. He can also get a summer job. Factory work is one thing, but he should look into paid internships, especially with a 4.0

[@jamesthesuperdued]

Hey Dave! You mentioned that an MD/Phd Program could help you go to medical school debt free. How would this work?

[@collinhill1745]

Idk I wouldn’t bank on getting a med school scholarship. 4.0 as a freshman doesn’t say much when 60% of all applicants don’t get into a single school and of those who get accepted, the vast majority get only one acceptance. If you really want free school, do HPSP through military. MD/PHD is even more difficult to get into than just MD and you should only do it if you primarily want to be a researcher with some clinic.

[@harrisonwintergreen1147]

$1000/month rent in NYC is a fridge box 📦 in an alley. He must be out in Queens in a railroad apartment

[@princesslamour1985]

Oooooo good call

[@dfarias873]

Lmk how the 4.0 goes once you hit o chem lol

[@breannathomas2469]

Daylon Farias I was thinking the same thing 😂

[@dodgeplow]

I had to take it twice. Got A's the second time. Somehow my interviewer only saw my second set of scores and not the first (lol even congratulated me for getting A's in O chem) and he recommended me for admission (he was my sole interviewer). Thank you Dr. Detwiler

[@dfarias873]

dodgeplow Congrats! I was borderline A/B for both classes. Unfortunately got the B both times.

[@dodgeplow]

@@dfarias873 I got a C the first time ugh, Dropped the second semester late enough to be able to stay in the lab course. 30 years later, none of my patients ask what my grades were...

[@seniormgmt2069]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Dave is going to say no

[@kathryncashner3294]

This guy is talking about being in undergrad now and looking at med school. In undergrad, you can totally work and go to school...of course, you won't be partying. I babysat for professors (it pays well and you can study when the kids go to bed). You have a couple choices for summers--take off and work for the 3 months OR stay in school and graduate in 3 years. Because I had tested out of a lot of classes, I did both....I worked in a steel mill summers and I completed undergrad in 3 years. And I had a lot of fun while in undergrad. Then comes medical school when you won't be able to work; you'll be studying. And most schools only have a summer vacation after the first year. But you have choices here too. I don't know what med school tuition is at state schools in PA, but at Indiana University it is $29K for in state residents. It doubles for out of state. And it can triple if you go to a private med school. Want to go to med school totally cost free and earn while doing it? Join the military. You will owe them a year for each year they support you, but they will pay tuition, rent, all required texts, etc. AND you will go play soldier during any breaks the school gives you and receive officer pay for the time you are active duty! But you'll owe them the time for which you will be paid. OR go into debt for med school but know that after residency you'll step into a high paying job. I would strongly recommend working during undergrad and getting that far debt free. Options for med school 1--choose the school wisely. 2--consider military or health professions scholarship programs 3--go into as little debt as possible knowing that you can pay it off quickly. 4--live very frugally. 5--continue to live frugally for a few years after residency. That will easily eliminate reasonable debt.

[@michaelwoods4495]

Try the Army. I'm not sure how it worked, but the Army paid for at least some of his medical school and all of his residencies and whatever it is that docs do for specialization. You would owe them some years of service, but are you really determined? He got more pay than I did as a Naval Aviator, and at less risk.

[@Da_padilla]

In theory he makes sense, but what happens when you qualify for the pell grant but your parents are near the cut off. Making 10k would really knock your grants. I have faced this myself and as a result my pell was cut in half.

[@amyl3729]

I go to osu, and got roughly $10,000 refund back after scholarships and gi bill (50%). You can do it, ask someone who has.

[@justheather4144]

What is wrong with Manhattan?! Lol Might as well as go to Guam if you don't care about the quality of your education. Also, you can go to med school debt free. I had my BA & MD paid for by the VA. But, I've met other highly *motivated* kids & it's possible.

[@cripplermaximus]

Pre-med is not a requirement to go to med school. People with humanities degrees are going to medical school now in high numbers. Kid needs to be a little more plugged into what he is doing and studying.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

pre-med is said in the context to have your all required courses taken. while you can major in anything, there are specific course requirements, hence "pre-med".

[@dodgeplow]

If he is as smart as he says and gets AP and other credits, etc, he can graduate early which can easily save him 25% or more of total cost. I got my bachelors in 3 years. I had a gap year after because my sequential courses to be ready for the MCATs were still on the original schedule. I worked as a paramedic in the gap year and made a good income and saved all I could. Then I went to state medical school that was VASTLY cheaper (not sure how they compare today but it was 1/4 the cost in 1990), where I worked a few hours each night in the computer lab as an assistant (keep the network going, update all the student computers, make sure the printers are working and stocked with paper, help junior computer users etc) that allowed me to study while I earned cash. On weekends without call or major upcoming exams, I still worked part-time as a medic to keep cash flowing during school. I don't recommend the average student do this, but it is a doable option. It was a massive struggle, stressed out constantly, etc, but I got through all of undergrad and med school owing $30K but with $11K in the bank (net only $19K owed).

[@meaghanceciliawood8972]

Most ‘pre-med’ is the same. Save the money and I hope you do get into med school.

[@tomrkba4685]

The better question is: Is it worth it to become a doctor? The answer is NO! The job eats you alive. It is nothing but stress caused by administrators who lay everything at the feet of the doctor. They are NOT employed to SUPPORT doctors; they are employed to protect the organization. There is no work/life balance. Salaries can be great. But, you will need to be in private practice doing the patient grind. Academic doctors get paid half or less. For example, Johns Hopkins is the minimum wage hospital of the industry. You will work like a doctor and be paid like a mid-level engineer. Mrs. RKBA works from 7AM to 5 or 6 PM, comes home, takes a two hour break, and works until 10 or 11. But, keep in mind YOU pay in TIME for every dollar of salary. Oncalls will be crazy and frequent until you get to age 50 (oncall typically ends then). Know what oncall is going to be before signing! Many places will over loan repayment incentives. However, applicants must be careful since the doctor pays for everything. That $100k in “free” money comes not only with strings, but chains. Make sure it is not coming out of your salary. READ THE CONTRACT! ENFORCE IT AFTER SIGNING. You do not want to be waiting for something promised in the contract two years in. Things like no dedicated office assistant for you (these people are essential to keep a doctor sane), promised research time never materialized, etc. Avoid being a doctor if at all possible. You will miss holidays with the family, your kids will grow up without you, and you will have nothig to show for it if you don’t monetize yourself early on. If you do become a doctor, know your contract and hold the org to it. Consult an attorney before signing anything.

[@afrothundar]

tom rkba The real answer to the question of whether it’s worth it is: it depends I take your points, they’re a bit dramatic, the debt it’s bad for sure, but if you use Dave’s strategy you can get out of debt really fast because of your income. Incomes do vary, depending on your specialty, but so do types of lifestyles. Working holidays, and being on call all the time really depends on your specialty, and whether or not you decide to work at an academic hospital center. All that being said, you don’t become a doctor for the money, it’s there, but that will not sustain your spirit, you have to have a deeper reason for doing it.

[@tomrkba4685]

The debt is a small part of the downside to a doctor’s life. The real cost is in time and that time goes to the profession. Everything I mentioned happened or is happening to people in the industry.

[@NotQuiteEpic]

What does 'just work a factory job' mean? He's polishing rose-colored glasses and in for a rude awakening.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

He seems to be quite intelligent and would make it into med school. In such situations, one should quickly migrate in that direction as quickly as possible and not let other issues muddy the water. He should take loans out to cover the 10k/year housing option and of course if opportunity presents itself to earn money then take advantage of that, but ideas such as getting a "factory job" rubbing shoulders with blue collar toothless workers in their 40s who have finally reached the income peak of their life at 40k/year, is a major wrong decision to make. Playing his cards right as a physician he will earn a good income and pay that 40k/year incurred in undergrad very rapidly off. The older you become, the harder it is to be in school. So many folks have had their dreams of being a doctor destroyed because they got side tracked in life... often sidetracked because of issues outside of their control. In this case, he has full control of things so this would be a shame if it ends up killing his goals.

[@peaceness888]

Cutting grass and delivering pizzas is not realistic for medical -- the ROI from keeping his grades up is much higher. However, most of my friends are medical students and I know quite a few who were tight on money and worked in jobs before med school that would also assist them with their medical school application such as working as a scribe or paramedic. It is worth it if it also demonstrates your commitment to the field at the same time. Some students who start at a lab very early during undergrad can get a paid research position by graduation. Most med school applicants take a gap year so they have more time to study for the MCAT -- it is not a bad idea to work a medical-related job at this time. Additionally, he doesn't have to live in Manhattan to go to NYU. Many students commute from Brooklyn. Still, he won't likely find rent under $1,000 in Brooklyn -- not even 4 years ago. But, with roommates, hunting, and some compromises, he could find something close to $1000/month.

[@mattcollins4550]

Debt free med school? LOL And yet another video where Dave is out of touch.

[@aurorarising1945]

4.0 GPA as a pre med is crazy wow

[@germanshepard7842]

i think the pizza's at the grocery store taste better and cheaper in price!

[@lydian2726]

Texas Christian university has the chancellor scholarship. Its for out of state students as well

[@Stellamarie87]

Where do you go to school and live there free???? Sign me up!!!

[@yme3267]

Basically sounds like architecture student 🙃

[@kevinroof6879]

What about ROTC ?

[@angelachanellehuang5663]

Being a doctor must be worth it