Is Jade Hard Enough to Machine Metal?

Jade has been used for various uses for thousands of years. From Jewelry to tools, but is is hard enough to machine metal?
#Machining #Machinist #Engineering

[@teardowndan5364]

Anything crystalline that isn't a monocrystal will shake itself apart when attempting to cut anything hard using typical feed speeds for standard bits. You would likely be able to go much further with the jade endmill by running it 1/10th as fast.

[@Splayn]

this

[@Scott_C]

Agreed! It feels like the Operator didn't do any post cut analysis of the plastic and wood then went into the aluminum at "full speed" almost as if the Opp was trying to break it.

[@teardowndan5364]

@@Scott_C To be fair, breaking them was an implied goal and likely inevitable even if they slowed down to completely impractical speeds.

[@garrisoncase]

@@teardowndan5364impractical!? What if I’m trying to machine my way out of some sort of Jade prison? Now what’s impractical?

[@machinedragon]

Hear me out. It's not how fast the job gets done. If the tool kept cutting. Steel razors are still inferior to obsidian glass knives in terms of edges and sharpness but obviously obsidian as a crystalline slush formed in a natural volcanic pyroclastic event would result in random cracks . I guess what I'm saying don't give up on this horse. A synthetic jade run at appropriate speed with the right cutting lubricant and monitoring the piezoelectric effect to detect if the crystal is near its fracture limit and possibly possibly. Mill out incredibly accurate stone and ceramic parts using a synthetic jade bit . But requires a system to monitor the temperature and electrical conductivity of the crystal as a signal for fatigue. Possibly even a custom chuck holder thats refrigerated because the nature of that crystal like quartzes is that it dosent make clean cleavage peices it shatters out into deathshards of chaos .. I bet a quartz bit would behave the same way also.

[@melgross]

I work with jade. I’ve machined it but never tried to cut with it. It’s pretty strong due to the crystal structure and is 7 on the Mohs hardness scale, so it’s hard. But the sample used here isn’t the best. You need to try with a piece that doesn’t have that multicolored structure. That’s not as solid as you would want. It would work a “little” better with a less pretty sample that’s just pure green. Rounded flute tips would also work much better. I would also recommend a shorter, much stubbier bit.

[@madmurdoch2000]

i understand that jade is hard but isnt it also very rigid with no flex in the material? i guess what i'm trying to say it that jade is hard but to brittle to do this type of work isnt it?

[@melgross]

@@madmurdoch2000 jade has traditionally been used for hammers. It has what’s called a twinned crystal structure which makes it very tough. Sure, I wouldn’t try to use it to make a mill bit with, but it’s also used for knives and such. Milling metals is a very unusual use though. Last time he tried glass. That didn’t work at all.

[@kylewellman402]

I feel like a rounded tip would break easier unless no plunging or milling with the tip was done. Even HSS/carbide tools that are ball nose break/dull more easily due to the whole "essentially 0 RPM at the very center thats trying to cut". That being said, i would like to see your example though of good pure jade as opposed to the marbling like impurities. Ever since i learned i can make my own rubies in my garage, its been on my project list to build a hydraulic chamber to try and make a ruby lathe insert tool. I feel like that would have a greater chance at surviving just given what direction the forces would be in. Seeing that jade end mill break in half tells me it really just couldn't take the flexing from that cut. I think he could have gave it more of a fighting chance to actually cut. He basically stacked everything against it by taking what looks like at least a 15 to 20 thou depth of cut and doing climb milling. At least see if it would survive like a 5 thou DOC while convential milling

[@melgross]

@@kylewellman402 rounded tips soften the initial jump in cutting force the edge sees. That’s different from a ball mill, which isn’t what I meant. I’m talking about maybe a 0.05” radius at the flute tip. I find that whether HSS or carbide, those last longer. But also, you’re right about the depth of cut. I was going to mention that before, but didn’t. I don’t know what rpm a jade cutter could withstand, but the higher, the better. I don’t see that he tried to determine what the cutter could do. He just took some moderate average setting and went with it.

[@kylewellman402]

@@melgross oh gotcha. Like similar to the nose radius on an insert bit as opposed to a sharp nose. Hopefully I'm thinking if that right now. Maybe they should try it again and go to brass first instead of aluminum too. Aluminum is so gummy to cut if you dont have a proper coating meant for aluminum. I seen where when they were inspecting the end mill after it broke there was aluminum imbedded along basically every cutting surface. Im sure these guys at Titan are aware of that. Maybe that is why they chose aluminum for the torture of it 🤔

[@idhdjuhdjhdh3817]

I love the way you all made a "boring" video about endmill geometry and functionality into something much more entertaining. Well done!

[@snacpop]

To be fair it was still pretty boring. We’ve all seen endmills and the relief on them.

[@bobbytables4305]

nope it is a boring video...

[@triple7988]

I've learned more about endmills in this one video than I ever did in school

[@patrickday4206]

I like holes should be a good video

[@leovodica9975]

I skipped like 1 minute 3 times and I saw still the same video and heared the same words :D Six flutes, notchnes, K lines, becouse of 6 flutes we need K lines or wathever etc etc... this could be a reel.

[@Chrisg93]

Use an old Nokia as the end mill

[@lidltraut8258]

Careful now, dont want to mill hole through reality

[@The_Legend47]

LOL

[@akaHarvesteR]

That could never work. How would you grind any flutes in it to begin with?

[@solowingpixy8297]

​@@akaHarvesteRIt is the flute lmao

[@str44thond71]

That would cut the fabric of reality

[@bubbasplants189]

Don't even care if it works, that thing looks sick! Like a poisonous endmill.

[@anonymouspersonthefake]

+10 poison damage

[@drecknathmagladery9118]

it technically is poisonous. jade is a type of asbestos.

[@Shoorit]

Please try making one out of carbide. I’ve got a feeling it will work great.

[@fastmover45]

Make one out of Boron Nitride :)

[@JohnFrazier007]

🤣🤣🤣

[@athmaid]

Silicon carbide would be interesting

[@918guy]

Titanium nitrided high speed steel? may be some promise there

[@Turboy65]

Now make one out of a single large quartz crystal.

[@larrymashburn7789]

Then sapphire, then diamond.

[@stasi0238]

With crystalline Al2O3

[@jimsonjohnson3761]

All of which are very brittle. That's why we don't use quartz in so many places

[@aidenwallin3523]

@@stasi0238Sapphire is Al2 O3. Corundum.

[@GoldenBoy-et6of]

Jade is the most durable of all minerals , its not the hardest but it's the least brittle of all gemstones , quartz is hard but incredibly brittle and will shatter just as easily as glass while jade can be hit with a hammer as hard as you can many times before it will finally split

[@ahmadshaabanabu-yousseff911]

It's all about vibration and tool's resonance frequency , and giving the tool enough time to dampen the vibration, For example glass has very low natural frequency for small stuff between 200-500 Hz Steel has much higher frequency in the KHz range for the same size . Increasing number of flutes decreases overall fluctuation in vibration , but since the flutes are thinner the natural frequency decreases making it more brittle, . For example a glass sheets crack easily a glass cube will not crack easily because it has more girth and more volume to dissipate energy To increase the probability of success using glass or jade feed speed must be ultra slow and maybe make the flute channels narrower to allow for more girth to withstand vibrations also increasing fluting angles will help make forces and vibrations more axially aligned (radial vibrations break tools ) . Tips High helix angles High number of flutes Slow feed rate Narrow channels Maybe bulkier or conical tools

[@realJohnLab]

The amount of joy Barry gets from destroying things; warms the cockles of my heart.. even tickles the sub cockles.

[@marcusrauch4223]

The what?

[@waaa141995]

@@marcusrauch4223 hes talking about his nuts

[@shifty1016]

While handicapped people make handicapped faces.

[@seancollins9745]

I await the pre cockles

[@12th.jahlil]

I beg your pardon?

[@NVMDSTEvil]

very low quality jade, and why cutting from the side and so deep like that? Could at least have given it a fighting chance ..

[@viggo_wiberg]

Your right. Now let’s see you do it properly…

[@NVMDSTEvil]

@@viggo_wiberg would love to have the equipment to do it

[@jamesfair9751]

Cause side cutting is a huge thing that endmills are made to do. If all you need is a plunge cut you could mostly get by with drill bits if you just need to drill a hole !!!

[@NVMDSTEvil]

@@jamesfair9751 not side cutting like that.

[@aguy6022]

Probably they were simply not confident with it from the beginning, so i guess they decided to go all in with the stress test.

[@damianfitzpatrick3465]

A future where Kennametal just sells you a CNC program for their endmills

[@jmowreader9555]

That's more like a trip to the past. In the old days when people set type for printing by hand, type was made out of lead. Since lead is soft it wears out pretty quickly, so a lot of printers just bought molds - they were called matrices - and cast the type they needed for every job.

[@therealchayd]

@@jmowreader9555 Then along came LinoType...

[@Wbfuhn]

Materials I'd like to see turned into tools. Obsidian, rock, petrified wood (you can petrify by soaking in water for several months) and gems such as Sapphire, Emerald, Topaz, Ruby and Amethyst.

[@coreytaylor5386]

theres also a lot of natural petrified wood you can get online thats fully harded into rock

[@melgross]

Petrified wood isn’t just soaked. You just get soaked wood. It’s when the wood is replaced by minerals over long time. You can force that process, but it’s not the same thing.

[@GregsStoneYard]

@@melgross Months, millions of years, what's the difference? 😀I'm currently cutting a 42" diameter 60" long petrified wood log into slabs... have all the slabs cut, doing the polishing now. The petrified wood is pretty much pure quartz. It's the hardest stuff I've cut and is brutal on my diamond tools.

[@melgross]

@@GregsStoneYard because it takes a long time for mineralization to take place. We worked on trying to make a petrified wood using some modern techniques, but it doesn’t produce a compactified deposit. It needs to happen very slowly. Even though we used dissolved minerals, and heat and pressure, it just doesn’t produce actual rock but a more crumbly substance. The real thing is a very nice material, but it’s true, it’s brutal on tooling. It’s very tough and breaks the diamond right off the blades.

[@felderup]

@@melgross vac chamber cycling then high temp baking and another few vac cycles perhaps would speed it up?

[@PaulWalker-zk2dd]

Hardness of the material is important, but not the only important measure. Tensile strength and notch sensitivity are also important. I love your videos and learn a lot.

[@honda-5422]

BRING BACK THE CHEESE TEST 🤣

[@chrishayes5755]

seems like a pretty aggressive cut into that aluminum. looks like it could have made it with less load on the end mill.

[@toshinakae6397]

wasnt super aggressive, look at the size of those chips, basically powder! though the tool was getting dull too so its hard to tell. But looks like the depth of cut is not even an 1/8th of the diameter deep. Might perform better with different speeds/feeds, but that cut into aluminum was pretty mild.

[@enzochoi923]

Looked like it was dulling too fast. I think they could have made it 3-4x farther with the correct speeds and feeds, but that's still not much

[@usb6000]

​@@toshinakae6397 I think he meant by aggressive meaning it really needed to be slow The feed was too high in my opinion as well.

[@dareelistwhoreala]

At the end of the day tho... it's just not a viable or effective alternative.

[@jimsonjohnson3761]

Hardness doest = durable. Otherwise we'd use diamonds and quartz for a lot more. And before you comment, no diamonds really aren't that rare.

[@CaptainCarrotzz]

Appreciate you running through the CAD at the beginning. A lot of pop engineering channels skip over that stuff, but that's what I'm interested in seeing. Also, Barry is such a card. Love the energy he brings😂

[@bobbytables4305]

In case you missed it... They created a 6 flute jade endmil and put a kayland on it with a notch...

[@markalvarez1827]

It's crazy how much you know about endmills 😂 Great video, love listening to people who know what they are talking about.

[@max_eley]

One of the best video ideas I have ever seen, awesome!

[@legochamp1]

i would buy this as a dekor for my desk! love it

[@KinoTechUSA69]

I love how you guys are asking the serious questions 😂 👍

[@CraigHollabaugh]

That was cool seeing the operations needed. Thanks

[@ConcreteBombDeep]

If you haven't done it yet you need to make a endmill out of sapphire crystal. Lab produced sapphire is already the perfect shape and being just under diamond in hardness should make it interesting.

[@animus3d663]

I wonder what “part materials” could cut. For instance, maybe inconel could cut aluminum

[@ggeorges5135]

these grinding videos are sick

[@KnowArt]

would love to see more optimizations for crystal endmills. I imagine wider, shorter, more flutes, less sharp angles, etc

[@EPEPEPEP05]

i didnt expect to meet you here! well, i did! but still in shock!

[@GabbyVillarreal-dm1ct]

Awesome video, Chris !

[@adamhayes2528]

What an interestingly cool video!! Nice one Chris and Nate!

[@shaniegust1225]

Y’all crazy over there! Nice video. Everyone loves Chris 💪🔥

[@jaredkennedy6576]

That was pretty wild. It's also good that this is now a known tech, there might be some material in the future that requires a jade cutting edge.

[@deths1679]

I have been making natural sharpening stones and I think it is pretty amazing what can be done with stone tools once you learn the properties and geometry to mitigate the weaknesses of stone. I keep getting surprised with how difficult it can be to work with hard stone, even with modern tools.

[@Sara-TOC]

Third time is a charm!! You’re getting closer, Chris!!! I can’t wait to see what you come up with next. 😁

[@nathanbieri7060]

Chris always getting creative with his grinds!

[@TheRcfighterpilot]

NGL these would be neat gifts for machinists!

[@Tezza120]

Try ruby or sapphire next. The man made ones with no flaws. I think they call them a boule. At least they have a hardness close to carbide and a uniform crystal should give it more toughness

[@marcus_w0]

I really was rooting for that little endmill! Keep on going trying materials! Thumbs up!

[@sportswolf1]

I should send you my wife's roast beef. lol

[@MF175mp]

Would make a good end mill?

[@BrilliantDesignOnline]

@@MF175mp Toughest substance known to man 🙂

[@bardesteck]

Nice video .. how did you determine the cutting conditions for a tool not in the market without the research behind it? What was the rpm or fz used in this experiment? for machinist it would have been interesting seen this values on screen .. thank you, it was entertaining seen how you took the time to make the endmill

[@rcnewman51.]

That shop is gorgeous!

[@cncwoodarts]

I have an idea! 1) Make a hybrid endmill from tungsten carbide or something like inconel 2) cut flute sections from a hard crystal like Mossanite. Or synthetic sapphire. 3) braze flute sections into the metal core, then finish cut the whole mill on the grinder. Tough, shock resilient core with super hard edges…use it any non-ferrous. Material with coolant…it will last!!!

[@cncwoodarts]

I bet it lasts longer than your Kore 5 in aluminum if the brazing is strong enough!

[@jaredlepore9]

Does Machinery's Handbook have suggested feeds and speeds for jade endmills?

[@NOBLEArbiter]

The most beautiful endmill

[@huseyinaynaci1752]

Guys, you have to use coolant when you milling alluminium material 🥲Thus, you can extend the life of the cutting edges by preventing sticking chips from being deposited edges of the endmill.

[@atruceforbruce5388]

Just got to do a jade tool and add some diamond dust on the cutting edges. You got this.

[@classtilton871]

I carve pounamu, its a type of jade only found here in new zealand. I was actually surprised how well this held up! Great video!

[@alt5494]

A super fine grit mill driven finishing stone would be interesting for the leftover piece. If a h13 steel core was added for support could actually be a fine tool.

[@phillipmillay8645]

Thanks for showing Walter Grinder programming, I am just starting programming ours for our regrind shop on the same Grinders. We have trouble getting the K land adjusted in correctly. How are you doing the K land? Our process was programmed to K Land with a differ wheel than the gashing wheel, so it makes it hard to adjust them both. I’m am thinking about changing it to rough and finish the path, dedicating a rough gashing wheel and a finish gashing wheel. I think that if the same wheel does the gash and the L land on the point angle edge it will be easier for the team to control. It will just be a matter of wheel wear then. Let me know your thoughts on this.

[@minimal_ltd]

I would buy one to put on my desk

[@dbdbdbqpqpqpqp]

I’m curious what the flute rake is vs the k land rake. I work in cutting tool manufacturing and just found your channel, cool stuff!

[@shawnbonning8848]

You should grind the od's from shank to end of tool, your wheel will stay sharper longer. Lower your plunge percentage so it doesn't jam into the tool.

[@elnoey]

IT WILL WORK! NICE WORK

[@SPUPRR]

I would love to buy a couple of those Endmills as a conversation piece. They are Beautiful.

[@Bestruction]

I’ll see you guys at the Kennametal roadshow! I’m a Kennametal applications engineer, and I’m working the event

[@growbikebuild3032]

Try Ruby ranks 9 on the Mohs hardness scale

[@globuseric8998]

This just made my day👍

[@chincemagnet]

Interesting to see how you machine that end mill, the tooling I use is similar to that only a much sharper twist, press tools for forging helical gears. I was told they machine them on an EDM machine though. I don’t know what grade of steel it is though tbh. We can’t use carbide because of the heat, 1800F + or -

[@michaelpiper8198]

this is nice for some labs I imagine, in the case of needing different bits that won't shed particulates that would be reactive in nature of whatever goal they are attempting to achieve. ie. metal shedding from a bit and bonding with processing materials before intended reaction can take place.

[@thanumgaming]

Looks like a work of art!

[@user-yl3en6qo5u]

You make great videos, it would be very interesting if you showed the method used to achieve a very tight tolerance on the first try such as a G6 on an internal diameter of 20mm for example, with a tool which has just been gauged and which It doesn't have any proofreaders yet.

[@prjndigo]

I think you should have mentioned the Startec tools twice as often... I have no idea what they currently cost but you could get a sapphire alloy phone screen blank that hasn't been sliced up yet and have a go with it. They come in about 3"9"10" but might be veeeery pricey.

[@paulmilligan1808]

Hi guys I saw this video and I think I might be able to make this endmill run in my new line of tool holders it would be interesting to try this endmill because the thing that caused the failure is the standard concentricity that you get in an ER collet holder. I think that the failure was due to being off in runout and the harmonics are off because of this. even if this endmill is off by .0002" or more it would probably fail.

[@Handles_AreStupid]

"Because it is a natural mineral, it will have a mohs hardness of 6 to 7" Diamond and ruby are natural minerals that are mohs 10 and 9 respectively. A "natural mineral" doesnt have a hard and fast rule like that...

[@marcosdheleno]

also, what the hell is a "natural mineral". feels like when people talk about organic food.

[@Handles_AreStupid]

@@marcosdheleno We are capable of making synthetic minerals, too. Natural just means that it isn't sythetically produced, but they are chemically identical, so it doesn't matter. The new iphone models actually have synthetic sapphire screens. That "sapphire glass" marketing gimick isn't just hyperbole, it is literal sapphire.

[@jessicacon]

*BRUH* the noise the glass drill bit made when it died as it touched the metal made it *1000X FUCKING FUNNIER XD*

[@thepain321]

Would like to see hard minerals optimized. Lab ruby, sapphire. Machine speed, feed rate, depth of cut, twist on the cutting edge. Do a core bit of mineral, fed with grit too.

[@Stonehaven2112]

Looks like the aluminum started to gall before it broke (sticking to the cutter). The galling would have loaded down the bit. Would cutting with fluid or a different bit geometry prevent the galling?

[@thehackofalltrades1630]

Excellent Voice, demonstrations, visualization and explanations - You do repeat facts/things over multiple times which makes this video a bit long - I am intrigued by the subject/ thumbnail with this is trimmed a bit it would be perfect - Great video and if you need to do it to make it longer for monetization reasons then no biggy -> u do what you gotta do - Cheers

[@anthonyfigueroa2395]

If you slow down the piece going into the drill bit but keep the bit speed up, I bet it will cut n not break also a shorter jade piece n it will work.

[@sannyassi73]

I wonder- if you could somehow produce synthetic jade without all the inconsistencies, how might that work? Although, I've never heard of synthetic Jade (maybe it exists?). Neat video! How about Sapphire?

[@denisrobertoheuser4279]

Im not an expert of cuting tool materials, but my guess about the faliure of this one is related to the sise of the Jade grains. Smaler the grain, biger te bond betwin them. Does it make any sense?

[@kurlyfry7916]

The probe shot at around 1:15 looks like it collided with the workpiece pretty quickly. What happened?

[@calvinchabot2528]

Would love to see you guys do one out of sapphire, and one out of aluminum oxynitride 👍

[@peacefulscrimp5183]

You should have done an old school star trek enterprise glamour camera pass of that bit once it was finished 😳 That thing was a work of art 😔 RIP .

[@schmurisworld]

You should sell some of them it looks awesome as decorations

[@jamiefowler2329]

Man when he said j made me feel like I was watching how to make a joint tutorial 😂

[@guilavo4131]

This is just a random thought, but if you tried to do conventional milling instead of climb milling. I think it might have survived the aluminum since the force on the tool while climb cutting are a lot higher.

[@DukieBrain]

This is incredible. Gashing is my new favorite word

[@tristenagar4360]

i would love to have this piece, it looks so cool and i love the basic pieces of jade that i have. if you see this and are ever thinking of parting with it i would like a shot at it. You atleast have a subscriber from me lol, keep up the content

[@joshuahuman1]

you should try making one out of a synthetic ruby laser rod

[@Calthecool]

I second this

[@steffen8446]

what chair is this at 7:51?^^

[@_GOD_HAND_]

Obviously when making a tool it's not just hardness that counts. There are many other material properties that need to be considered like tensile strength, compressive strength, elastic modulus, etc. These tests on various minerals are pointless, but I guess it's good content for social media.

[@thespacedude8420]

Do an endmill of hardened polyester next! I work with polyester in my restoration projects and I'd really love to see how it'd hold up as an endmill. Although I imagine it will behave like quite a brittle material in a high-torque high-speed operation.

[@alexwilliamson92]

What do you plan on cutting with this?

[@andrewl9203]

I'd like to see you make some inserts.

[@freddyfingerz9854]

Try with a large ruby. Conundrum is even harder. If your lucky u can still find large dirty 1 piece crystals around natural or make one with a induction setup and aluminum oxide

[@leviarias5281]

How much is the raw material for the jade and the price for end if it would be manufactured? It cut delrin they did should how well but if it's cheaper to manufacture then carbide and HSS might ne with it

[@Mikkel.RS.1]

i would expect the jade to be cheap, but the time and energy gone into it the same as carbide-that would last decades longer than jade, means its not a good material for a cutter :)

[@verakoo6187]

Jade prices are insanely wild, and based on quality/shape. Can range anywere from $3 per carat to millions per carat

[@kindle2730]

Can I have it as a souvenir? That is the sickest end mill ever

[@johnpaton4246]

I also have a hardness scale, Moh aint the only one

[@alexdalton7290]

I resin printed a 2 flute em out of htmv 140 v2 (ceramic like) Envisiontec material but no sharp edges but curious if it could be sharpened

[@blaze00366]

Do a Sapphire endmill its pretty hard, then try depleated uranium, tungsten would be cool also but I dont know if you could do it.

[@Aeronaughtica]

This is the ish I come here for!

[@shadedude6games]

I missed it what wheel did he use for steps 1-2

[@Dumascain]

I'd like to see if it is possible to grid/machine Alon..

[@athmaid]

Could you make one out of moissanite (silicon carbide)?

[@michaelgrabbe8954]

Cool looking project.

[@keithhasafastcar]

How often do you guys actually grind custom end mills?

[@teambridgebsc691]

Well why not 🙂- great tech explanation. Hanging in for trial proof.

[@Abyssal313]

Would gem-quality or lab-created stones work better since they have fewer flaws? Something like lab created sapphire rods?

[@nord1657]

This is legit something i thoght about since i was a kid

[@timmontano8792]

How did you determine feeds and speeds?

[@darndarn99]

Can I ask what your quoting process is like? How fast do you turn an inquiry into a quote ?