Is Jesus the Angel Michael? Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists

[@TheLionFarm]

I have scripture and early church father quotes "Meeting at Nicaea in present-day Turkey, the council established the equality of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the Holy Trinity and asserted that only the Son became incarnate as Jesus Christ. The Arian leaders were subsequently banished from their churches for heresy." But during this same time, we find mention of 1 John 5:7, from about 200 AD through the 1500s. Here is a useful timeline of references to this verse: 200 AD Tertullian wrote "which three are one" based on the verse in his Against Praxeas, chapter 25. 250 AD Cyprian of Carthage, wrote, "And again, of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it is written: "And the three are One" in his On The Lapsed, On the Novatians, (see note for Old Latin) 350 AD Priscillian referred to it [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. xviii, p. 6.] 350 AD Idacius Clarus referred to it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 62, col. 359.] 350 AD Athanasius referred to it in his De Incarnatione 398 AD Aurelius Augustine used it to defend Trinitarianism in De Trinitate against the heresy of Sabellianism 415 AD Council of Carthage appealed to 1 John 5:7 when debating the Arian belief (Arians didn't believe in the deity of Jesus Christ) 450-530 AD Several orthodox African writers quoted the verse when defending the doctrine of the Trinity against the gainsaying of the Vandals. These writers are: A) Vigilius Tapensis in "Three Witnesses in Heaven" B) Victor Vitensis in his Historia persecutionis [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. vii, p. 60.] C) Fulgentius in "The Three Heavenly Witnesses" [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 65, col. 500.] 500 AD Cassiodorus cited it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 70, col. 1373.] 550 AD Old Latin ms r has it 550 AD The "Speculum" has it [The Speculum is a treatise that contains some good Old Latin scriptures.] 750 AD Wianburgensis referred to it 800 AD Jerome's Vulgate has it [It was not in Jerome's original Vulgate, but was brought in about 800 AD from good Old Latin manuscripts.] 1000s AD miniscule 635 has it Psalms 45:6 Your throne, O God(אֱ֭לֹהִים)Elohim, is for ever and ever: the scepter of your kingdom is a right scepter. Psalms 45:7 You love righteousness, and hate wickedness: therefore God(אֱלֹהִ֣ים)Elohim your God((אֱ֭לֹהֶיךָ)Elohim, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows. Isaiah 48:15 I, even I, have spoken; yes, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. Isaiah 48:16 Come you near to me, hear you this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, has sent me. Isaiah 48:17 Thus said the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD your God which teaches you to profit, which leads you by the way that you should go. Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity. “We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation . . . [which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7). Ignatius a.d. 30-107 Since, also, there is but one unbegotten Being, God, even the Father; and one only-begotten Son, God, the Word and man; and one Comforter, the Spirit of truth; and also one preaching, and one faith, and one baptism; The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians Chapter IV "For next to God, we worship and love the Word who is from the unbegotten and ineffable God, since also He became man for our sakes, that becoming a partaker of our sufferings, He might also bring us healing. (Justin Martyr)" Hippolytus “The Word alone of this God is from God himself, wherefore also the Word is God, being the being of God” (Refutation of All Heresies 10:29 [A.D. 228]). "God the Word was made man for this reason, that that very nature which had sinned, fallen, and become corrupt should conquer the tyrant who had deceived it. (John of Damascus)" They are not the same as said Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool? Hebrews 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? Jesus Christ is The Word & God Isaiah 9:6

[@jamestrotter3162]

Col. 1:16 says that Jesus is the Creator of all things. That would include all the angels, including Michael. Don't confuse the Creator with His creation. Michael and all angels are created beings. Jesus Christ, the eternal, living Word has no beginning. He became incarnate in the womb of Mary, so His human existence did have a beginning, but the eternal Word who became the God-man, Jesus Christ has always existed with God the Father and the Holy Spirit.

[@Darius-b4q]

Yes see I can understand where they’re getting. Jesus is the archangel Michael, but it’s just not true.

[@ez.7106]

May I please recommend a video topic? I really enjoy your videos. I've seen several of them so far. My topic suggestion is in regards to a supposed Bible contradiction involving the scriptures from Mark 10:46-52, Luke:18-35-43, and Matthew 20:29-34 Basics of what we know... Jesus went into and out of Jericho. The blind man (men) was on the side of the road. Matthew (20) reports two blind men on the side of the road as Jesus was leaving Jericho. Mark (10) reports blind Bartimaeus on the side of the road as Jesus was leaving Jericho. Luke (18) reports a blind man on the side of the road as Jesus was entering Jericho, and then mentioned afterwards that Jesus entered and passed through Jericho and then met Zacchaeus. Coincidentally there's also a similar story having nothing to do with Jericho in Matthew 9:29-31 but I think adds value to understanding the situation. I had someone claim there was a contradiction and/or an error because in one case it says Jesus went into Jericho and healed the man and in another case it says he went out of Jericho and healed the blind man. I've studied this out myself but I would be very grateful if you would share your input. Thank you so much.

[@Bluefish-LM]

Very interesting. During my studies and quiet time reading and coming acrossed theses scriptures, I've often pondered. One day we all will know and see this one that stands up with the voice of an archangel and the trumpet of YHVH elohim. Ty for sharing this thought.

[@thestudyofchristianity]

Thank you for the comment Lisa

[@dcarbon2]

That day is today. I am Michael the archangel himself, Google "seetheevidence" and follow the guidance from The Correction Book which is the Lamb's book of life. You need that book to receive the seal of God.

[@crisco777]

@@dcarbon2no you’re not

[@MrMario477]

these are heresies, so there are sects that say that the angel who appeared to mary was raphael

[@Mountzion70AD]

Thanks for sharing. I am aware of the scriptures paralleling the archangel Michael to Christ but if Christ is Michael in heaven and JW lean on Christ that could mean it’s a involuntary worshiping an angel rather then God. The apostle Paul said in Colossians 2 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind.

[@joshuab2437]

But Jesus never said that he is God. Only the Father is God. So Michael the archangel can be the entity of Christ.

[@Mountzion70AD]

You guys have studied the Bible and the Israelites culture for so long and think you know it all but still can’t come up to the understanding of this gospel. God is not the other of confusion. You are confused because the doctrine you follow is not the doctrine of christ and it’s not the gospel of the Israelites. Christ charged the disciples which were all Israelites a ppl out of his own to bring forth this gospel but since you try to understand the scriptures through a gentiles lens you mixing up everything. There’s no other name under heaven by which man can be save. Christ is not an angel is above the angels. He’s the son of the most High God and he his part of the Godhead. Christ is a God but he is not the father. He created everything that is on earth and in heaven including the angels and Michael. Colossians 1:15. Michael is one of the 7 archangels and when you see that he will lead on judgment day it’s because he has a position of leading the host of heaven. Read what you don’t understand because the knowledge and the doctrine of this gospel was given to the Israelites as long as you partake to the philosophy of the gentiles you will stay confused.

[@joshuab2437]

@@Mountzion70ADWhere in the Bible are seven Archangels referenced? Nowhere is that written. There is only one Archangel written about in the Bible, that is Michael, which means "He who is like God". The only Archangel is Michael. Anyone who says that there is more than one Archangel is blasphemous, because none are mentioned, as there is only one Chief Angel of the People of God (Israel/the Church).

[@Mountzion70AD]

@@joshuab2437 let me school you a little bit Tobit 12:15 I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels, which present the prayers of the saints, and which go in and out before the glory of the Holy One. If you don’t have that verse or book in your Bible you have an incomplet Bible. Throw it out and buy you a real Bible with all the books and scriptures in it that should be the first step. Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Uriel, Sariel, Raguel, and Remiel. This are the names of the 7 archangels which are over the 7 churches in revelation. I can tell that you don’t read enough or don’t understand what you read. And for your info the church doesn’t = Israel that is a lie. You just sounds confused because you under a false doctrine.

[@fg5137]

@@joshuab2437look at Hebrews 1:5

[@Deepthoughts4ever]

Ready

[@thestudyofchristianity]

Buckle Up

[@RealUvane]

Or is Immanu El the second coming of Micha El?

[@VoiceofTruth-iv8pq]

This was an attempt to give a fair representation of the beliefs of others. However, it seems to suggest that the idea originated with Russell or the SDAs when an angel Christology can be traced back to the NT, early Christian writings and views of the Reformers.

[@thestudyofchristianity]

Great point here. But i am unaware of any clear quotes from Early Church Fathers or Reformers that Michael was Jesus. Do you know of any?

[@VoiceofTruth-iv8pq]

@@thestudyofchristianity : You may wish to check out the Shepherd of Hermas. In his Early Christian Doctrines, JND Kelly writes concerning the angel who is superior to the others in God's inner council : "This angel is given the name Michael, and the conclusion is difficult to escape that Hermas saw in him as the Son of God and equated him with the archangel Michael." (pp94-95).

[@thestudyofchristianity]

Thanks I’ll check this out

[@claytonbenignus4688]

If Christ came to the aid of Gabriel to fight off the Princes of Persia or Greece, would it really take 3 weeks to defeat them?

[@thestudyofchristianity]

Great point 😂

[@Santosaint_]

🌈Adieu.

[@kryptonitecveg]

Doesn’t Eusebius say Jesus is the Word in the context of the warning about Sodom and Gomorrah?

[@thestudyofchristianity]

Good question, i'm actually not sure about that. I'll have to do some reading on it

[@anthonynelson6249]

For the record, “orthodox” SDAs do believe Michael and Jesus are the same person; this is mainly because Ellen White is seen as being inspired to the same qualitative degree as the Bible (though they would say her authority is less than that of the Bible-so they can still claim to be “sola scriptura” Protestants). Ellen White clearly teaches Jesus was originally Michael the Archangel before his incarnation, so SDAs kinda have no choice.

[@thestudyofchristianity]

Thanks for clarifying That was my thought as well

[@cassiewhitlow8549]

@@thestudyofchristianity I watch a lot of your videos, and very much enjoy your content. (Still excitedly waiting for more content on Isaiah). I am Adventist, and I can say after trying to un-biasedly read a good majority of Ellen White's writings, that she herself on multiple occasions makes it very clear that she nor her writings are at the level of the bible and that people have no business elevating her writings to such levels. She was appalled when people did this. One of my favorite quotes on this topic is where she says "If the bible were studied as it should be, men would have a breadth of mind and a nobility of character rarely seen in these times." She encourages people to read and think and grow in God for themselves and realizes she is a fallen human who also can err. And even though I have been greatly encouraged by many of her writings and experiences, it has only pointed me to go to God for myself, not to be dependent on her...but to go to God and read the bible for myself. Some people do abuse her writings and put them in an elevated status they do not belong. But I believe if we take Paul's advice and "test all things and hold fast to what is true' then through prayer and searching we can see and reason for ourselves what is reality and what isn't, and we can learn from many people and their walks.

[@thestudyofchristianity]

@cassiewhitlow8549 thank you for this comment

[@magnificentuniverse3085]

Ever since early 2nd century Christians identified Jesus with "angel of the LORD" from OT, and I think that majority of Christian leaders and apologists believe the same today. They literally believe that whenever God appeared to OT prophets that it was actually Jesus who appeared (he fought Jacob, he destroyed Assyrian army, he blessed Ishmael, he stopped Abraham from killing Isaac, he almost killed Moses for not circumcising his son, he showed himself in the bush to Moses, he appeared to Samsons parents, he apleared to Joshua as the commander of heavenly host, he appeared to Abraham with 2 angels to tell him about the faith of Sodom etc.), and many ancient Jewish sources understood those passages the same as describing the Memra of God, Michael, Jahoel, Metatron or some other angel who was seen as second Yahweh etc. Even some ancient Christian apocrypha identifies Jesus with Michael. Im still preplexed why so many Christians believe that Christ is angel of the LORD but not Michael... many say that angel of the LORD, also called simply LORD in Zechariah rebuked Satan is Christ himself, but Michael in Jude who does the same thing with same words isn't.

[@anthonynelson6249]

Part of the problem is that Michael appears in Revelation and is obviously not Jesus, so I think some NT verses ruled out that interpretation for most Christians. Adventists get creative and say Revelation 12 randomly jumps back to the pre-Fall era to depict the pre-incarnate Christ / Michael kicking Satan out of heaven to earth (at which point he would become the serpent in Eden). This doesn’t fit the context of Revelation, of course, but it’s the only way to salvage the Jesus=Michael idea. Historically, the idea that Michael is Jesus was also rejected by Christians because of Hebrews’s insistence that Jesus is not an angel. (As an aside, I also think it’s strange to say that “Michael,” which means “one who is like God”-IS God.)

[@magnificentuniverse3085]

@@anthonynelson6249 hmm I don't believe that Jesus is Michael, but I fail to see how Revelation cancels out that he is Jesus. It literally says that there was a child that's taken to heaven before the Dragon could destroy it and then John gets another vision of war in heaven where Michael defeats Satan and throws him on earth. It could be the same person as that child who went on heaven there is nothing either exolicit or implicit that cancels that possibility there.

[@magnificentuniverse3085]

@@anthonynelson6249 Hmm but can you explain to me why the argument that Jesus is the angel of LORD can bypass the verse in Hebrews but not the argument that he is Michael?

[@magnificentuniverse3085]

@@anthonynelson6249 Michael can also mean (and this translation is actually preferred by scholars) "who is like God?"

[@anthonynelson6249]

@@magnificentuniverse3085 If the child is Jesus taken to heaven, he would be called Jesus, not Michael. I don’t know about JWs, but Adventists say Michael was Jesus’ name BEFORE his incarnation, so that’s why they have to say Rev 12 jumps back in time. Edit: To put it another way, that interpretation would have to answer why Revelation never again refers to post-ascension Jesus as Michael. It’s a big problem, actually, which is why Adventists are forced to force in a time jump.

[@MrURBETTA]

You would have to ignore other scripture for this to be true. Remember John the baptist was prophecied to prepare the way for Yahweh. Isaiah 40:3. Then Matthew 3:3 John is preparing the way for Jesus. Matthew definitely believes Jesus is God, not Michael.

[@Tai182]

As an SDA myself I don't believe Michael and Jesus are the same. There are some that do though. And no it isn't considered a doctrine.

[@thestudyofchristianity]

Thanks for sharing

[@ChristopherHarle41048]

Here is a playlist on the Adventist belief. "Archangel Michael is the pre-incarnate JESUS CHRIST" kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5jQl2uYfcasjtk I hope this may be of help should you decide to upload a separate video on the Adventist position. Thank you for your non-judgemental. forensic, approach.

[@renatovasquez6041]

Jesus, one of the chiefprince he alone among all angels authorised to claimed he is alpha and omega, which is referred to Genesis and Revelation, the beginning and the end of Gods word, not the bigenning and endtimes,Jesus claimed he never know the end of times nor the angels , and here are his final words to John, "do not worship me, i am your fellow servant, worship God,

[@MrURBETTA]

Bro, you need to reqd revelations again. Jesus didnt say that. Jesus sent that angel to John. Read Rev. 22-16

[@jtv3421]

JESUS IS GOD... ALMIGHTY GOD!!! The deity of Jesus Christ is the most denied doctrine in this world by unbelievers. They vehemently hate the very idea that Jesus was born upon the earth as God incarnate (in the flesh). Literally, the Godhead became incarnate and dwelt among us.. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Revelation 22:13 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. People who deny Jesus need Him the most.

[@bestogh4670]

For your info that Isaiah said Mighty God not Almighty God. Who was Jesus praying to when He was on Earth? Who did He regard as higher than himself that He aould pray to that person. No one knows the hour nor the date except for THE FATHER. What did Jesus mean when He said this?

[@williamamor9612]

12Do you see a man [who is unteachable and] wise in his own eyes and full of self-conceit? There is more hope for a fool than for him. I am no paid pastor. I am born-again Jesus life and truth lover. And I hate lies. Making Jesus a mere angel is blasphemie, and they do not love truth or Jesus. This is a fact by the Holy Spirit of truth speaking to you. Luke 9:18And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him: and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am? 19They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again. 20He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God. Do you think those, including Herod who thought Jesus was John the Baptist are going to make it? No way!! They believed the lie. JW's watering down the fact that Jesus is God will NOT make it. This is a fact. John 3:11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

[@mayeerahbrits9160]

Bla bla bla....

[@thestudyofchristianity]

Brutal

[@FIREROS]

read the bible and stop being heretics jesus is god amhn

[@bestogh4670]

Show proof. Who was Jesus prayong to on Earth If he is the Almigthy God? Was he praying to himself and sweating blood that night when he said "Father if it is your will, Let this cup pass over me" ???