Is Kemper Wrong - Should updates be free?

[@yngvai777]

I sold my Kemper and bought a tube amp. As great as the Kemper is, I’m so much happier not having to deal with software updates and scrolling through tiny menu screens. It’s nice to just sit in front of my amp and turn a few knobs to get a great tone.

[@michaelgriffin5304]

I was digital for years. Got a great tube amp and have saved myself countless hours. Plug straight in - get great tone.

[@Joe-mz6dc]

I predicted this more than a decade ago. My sister's husband is a guitar player. I was telling her about my new amplifier purchase and she mentioned it to her husband. She says, he's wondering why don't you just buy a Kemper? And I said tell him I'd rather have actual tube amplifiers because anything electronic eventually becomes deprecated and archaic. Tube amplifiers last forever. Electronics depreciate and then eventually become almost worthless. Meanwhile look at the prices of old Fenders and Marshalls.

[@honkytonkinson9787]

I prefer to own my stuff and not have to fork out to be able to use a thing that will eventually lose software support That said, back in the 90s we didn’t have software subscriptions, but we did have to buy 9 volt batteries for our pedals. I don’t miss having to fool with those anymore

[@ShreddingFinn]

Yes I agree with the guy on the left, its only a matter of time before we go buy a piece of gear, online or at our mom and pop, get home, and see a notice "unlock all effects for only 4.99 a month". I would not ever buy a profiler and upgrade it for 300, Id go find any used Kemper unit I bet I can find a couple I can grab for under a grand, they have more buttons too

[@user-no1cares]

Who is that guy anyway?

[@JustMe-mn5hk]

I hope someone let's me know when there's an update on my 64 Fender Twin! When I was younger I used to chase tone and toys.... but now I find more enjoyment in just playing guitar! Try it you might like it!

[@morganghetti]

I'm a Line 6 fan for life. I bought an HX stomp 4 or 5 years ago and have gotten tons of quality updates. It's the best value in the guitar world.

[@bobmccarroll7876]

I was truly considering buying the Kemper Player for my pedal board but after the announcement of the upgrade pricing (to unlock new features) I gave up on my consideration of purchasing this product. Considering a Stomp now?

[@pwrmac7600]

Have been a Fractal Audio user for years now, and they are kinda the pinnacle. Every update that comes out is free. and these aren't just minor fixes, Fractal is constantly evolving the firmware to make it closer and closer to the rel thing. and on top of that we get new FX, new drive pedals, new amp models. and never have they charged for it.

[@misteress3840]

So they’ve probably earned your trust and, unless things change, you’ll stick with them. Unlike Kemper.

[@pwrmac7600]

@@misteress3840 The lack of updates to their tech is what actually made me not look at kemper. They didn't seem like that innovative of a product since the original kemper came out and stayed pretty much the same for how long.

[@CD-gk9ix]

Never had to update my tube and solid state … just a thought

[@jjulch]

I use AmpliTube through my iPad as my learning, silent practice setup. Tube amps for band rehearsal and live use.

[@TheRyanlehr]

Seems to soon from the release date for basically half the price of the unit to upgrade.

[@TribalGuitars]

If the update is making your pedal radically different, able to do things it was not expected or intended to do, then paying seems like it's okay. But, if the gear is holding back and you're just paying to unlock what it can already do, that's a hard "No!" I HATE subscription-based gear, much for the same reason I still buy CDs: It's mine. I've never had a CD: Decide to charge me more out of the blue, forget my password, lose my account, get hacked, change to a new format, spam my mailbox, push ads at me, or nickel and dime me to death with yet another subscription.

[@petersouthwell5971]

That's how Line6 Helix rolls! (I'm a hardcore fanboy.) The tech's shelf life is amazing, thanks to free, plentiful updates. Kemper not offering free updates? Makes them seem a bit unfriendly, even though I like them. Holy crap you guys are creating mass content these days! Productive. Gives me a morning coffee show.

[@petersouthwell5971]

I think it'd not be unreasonable to maye have updates free... But a list of plugins you could buy stand alone.. That'd be cool/acceptable.

[@fredsampson]

Kemper UPDATES have always been free. Its the UPGRADES that cost.

[@graphite-rastry]

At the very beginning of Kemper Player sales, it was said that some updates would be paid for. I see no reason for any negative reactions. And the fact that it offers for +300 dollars basically as an almost full-fledged Kemper, seems like a normal price to me.

[@joeandreana2645]

My little practice AMP is a Spark Go and I think they have the perfect setup; performance updates free, a robust community that shares presets and a selection of authorized (example: Hendrix) presets you can purchase.

[@YakBoss]

Yes, updates should be included. That’s a large part of what you’re buying into. If you don’t already have a modeler, new updates will bring in new customers. Modelers are ever better, making them similar, the brand with free updates wins

[@bottomkitchen250]

"hey kid, gimmie your tube screamer" I spit out my lunch laughing

[@SpookyTooth1974]

LOL thought this was a video about a Tom Petty Guitar dispute over authenticity

[@charlesbolton8471]

I thought it was going to about a dispute between Tom Petty’s estate and Mike Campbell concerning who actually owned what in their massive gear warehouse. That being said, I’m glad that’s not was this video is about.

[@sammydavej]

Still only using standalone pedals, so the updates aren’t part of my world, yet…. Love the channel!

[@alangreenway6695]

If AI uses someone’s voice or image, or the IP for the company, then that person or company can contest the use of their likeness or property and stop it or get financial compensation. What is difference with Kemper or another modeller using another Amp companies tones, and making money from these captures? Realistically shouldn’t Marshall, Fender, Vox and all the others be getting a cut of that profit?

[@mileswatkinson8135]

Don't give them any ideas. The cost of modeling equipment would go through the roof.

[@doanfiat]

Ive been a Headrush pedalboard guy for years... many firmware updates, a good community, so easy... my total investment was maybe $800. It almost completely removed buying any other pedals since I got it. Money well spent!

[@jameswhite1450]

which video Jonathan?

[@tracyblair3064]

No mention of yesterday’s massive update to the TONEX line of pedals and software functionality? I assumed this would be brought up as a comparison to Kemper charging for updates.

[@ryangunwitch-black]

I keep trying to download the upgrade to my ‘70 non-master volume Twin Reverb but I can’t get it to go. 😂

[@user-no1cares]

1970! I had one of those! With the foot switch! Perfect condition but I got to old to pack it out to the truck.

[@StonerWaifu]

"You need this upgrade, but your hardware can't support it"

[@thetonycooper]

Ooo.. that GS Mini is fantastic!!!

[@DaveMcCall]

What I've observed over several decades of making music: If it is digital, it will rapidly depreciate to zero dollars (over the span of several years to maybe 10 years on the long side) If it is analog, it should hold its value relatively well... sometimes vintage analog gear will actually appreciate in value. Some digital synths are an exception to this, but it generally holds true. If it is digital and requires a connection to a computer to work, the rate of depreciation is even faster (because support for current OSes goes away eventually as well as the connection protocol (Firewire!).

[@davplys]

I bought the tonex for the tonex max software which at the time was 299. Now its 99 but turns out I actually use the pedal. Paying for firmware seems wrong but Im still pissed my lifetime reaper expired.

[@acepalacio8223]

After listening to all the you tube videos on the Kemper upgrade If you only have the player and want to remain small then Do it.Both upgrades If you already have a stage ,toaster,or rack mount but have the player,I say no I bought the player for what it was ,something I can throw and fly or for tight areas I’m keeping it as is Just needed the midis switches to get quicker access to profiles and effects and tuner. Strip version perfect for that . That’s my take

[@GoofieNewfie]

if modelers go subscription or paid updates, I'm going back to tube amps. I bought a Axefx III over a kemper as I knew that while it was pricey up front, there was no cost afterwards. Unlike the kemper where you really need to go buy the sound packs afterwards and it seems like a rabbit hole. Fractal puts out updates quite often and they will have my business again as I feel my investment into Fractal was justified with great support throughout it's life.

[@zanzabar4ky7]

If Kempers have captures I don't see an issue selling them. But they did say they would add things to the platform with updates, and updates should always be free. Making the buttons do new things should be free.

[@marshalmercer594]

I'm fine with buying software to improve hardware functionality. I am not fine with paying to correct programming errors, or paying for R&D. I am also not fine with "renting" equipment (the subscription model).

[@kkzooi]

personallyi like to keep things simple. A nice sounding (tube)amp maybe an overdrive pedal, maybe a delay pedal and thats about it (as long as there is decent reverb build into the amp) i will never buy a profiler or modelling amp. too many options, too much hassle to set it to anything i like. To me there is a big difference between updates and upgrades. Updates are there to fix bugs/stability issues but do not ad any features necessarily, though that would be appreciated. Upgrades add functionallity which the device didn't have before. Those can cost money but it should be reasonable and preferably sold in individual or small packages which the user can pick and choose to buy if they want, but don't need for the actual functionality of the device. that should be a one time payment subscription based devices are an absolute no-go for me. The actual integrated functionalities that come stock should be clearly stated in all advertisement. They can have build in features they don't mention which add more functionality than what is advertised but it should not hamper the core functionality.

[@SlimeyGuitarStrings]

I am with Sean. Everything is a subscription and I hate it. I vastly prefer tube amps, and while I get that they're not a big part of this discussion, I will point out that they hold value while modelers generally don't.

[@misteress3840]

Also, I’d love to win a GS mini. I’ve been visiting my hometown once a month to spend time with my 96 year old dad and it’d be great to have a great sounding little guitar like that. Please throw my name in the hat!

[@SamHollidayV]

I just use garage band, sue me.

[@honkytonkinson9787]

Garage bad is perfectly adequate. I don’t think there is any point in upgrading unless you have a nice room, nice instruments, and nice mics and preamps. Then maybe worth investing in something better than garageband

[@Joe-mz6dc]

If it sounds good then you're the winner.

[@rvaguitars]

Oh man, I’m glad I watched this. I was just about to make the mistake of buying one of those.

[@thepedalreview]

Yeah the updates should be free. I think they’re literally the only modeler that is asking customers to pay for updates. It’s also not a great look when they promoted the Player as a stripped down version without saying why and then they come out and say pay us $300 for our update. Kemper sat in a room together and thought this would be a great business decision. 😂

[@CameraLaw]

This is the type of issue that the marketplace figures out. There have been recent free updates to Boss and Fender, so those might drive buyers over that way. If Kemper starts to lose significant market share, it may rethink things. Either that, or the Kemper police will come for your Tube Screamer.

[@HollywoodRecordingStudio]

They should charge as much as they need for updates, as the R&D for the new software updates takes $$. $500 / year certainly wouldn’t be unreasonable for a top notch update.

[@CitizenofMelee]

And the answer is the same as it is in so many situations: It depends.

[@arjanhurkmans9190]

updates (as in fixes) should be free, upgrades (as in adding new functionality) could be free, but understand if they charge money.

[@MayorMcCheese2000]

I think this all boils down to... how do people want to be treated, and does the way they package their product make it better or worse? I think we can all agree that absolutely nobody wants to buy something they think is a finished product, only to be told months later that they have to pay an extra $300 to get 100% of the product they already bought, not knowing they bought only a 75% finished product. That behavior just seems dishonest, so its not about the overall price, but the way in which they conduct business that makes their audience feel underappreciated. The $300 value is given context only by the initial price of $700, and 42% of the initial price for an upgrade seems outrageous, because people already resolved to pay the $700, and to then get slapped with another 42% upcharge essentially is a kick in the teeth! There's no confusion about this type of sales tactic... companies that give a shit about their customers don't do this shit.

[@mileswatkinson8135]

I don't have an argument when it comes to expanded capabilities at a reasonable cost. As long as things like bug fixes are free, I'm happy enough to use the basic abilities that the unit had when I purchased it. Subscription services for this type of stuff would just send a lot of players back to pedals and amps.

[@jfrankcarr]

As a software engineer, I like paid updates since that's what keeps me paid. As a guitar player, I want free updates!

[@JoelBass68]

There's absolutely no way I'm entering into a subscription service for anything related to my amps/cabs/guitars/bass/etc. Never, nope, not a chance. I can't phrase it strong enough. Even Fuck NO isn't strong enough.

[@zbqb84a]

Ick it’s the Tesla model.

[@dondavidson9619]

Sean is right just let it go you will probably get a win on the next thing you buy

[@JamesWalshBristolKids]

I'm not a Kemper guy, but I do have some modeling sounds I use in Logic Pro X. Most of the time I'm using an old Marshall Valvestate 80 to play guitar, or a Korg Pandora III for headphone practice. I do like free updates, and yes I have a Spark Amp I enjoy from time to time but I still gravitate to the Marshall amp. I agree with @homegrownson that updates should be free.

[@steveatkinson9123]

And this is why I will always use pedals and not these things. My di box under my board has a cab simulator in case I play somewhere where I can't use my amp.

[@ToddTheJoker]

Of course it shouldn;t be free BUT then again, it should NOT be an outrageous price either BECAUSE(using all caps to emphasize) the buyer has already purchased the main system and therefore should not be bilked out of their every last cent and dime! Have respect for your customer! if that makes sense! thank guys also in regards to Kemper , "I would NEVER"

[@richardclark.]

How much you pay for those pants? I throw away about ten of those a years that I trash at work. I can give you a deal. Might as well wear shorts at that point. Lol.

[@penultimatename6677]

Vote with your money. If a company prefers not to support their product with free updates. Then buy another brand.

[@D1570R73D]

video games sell microtransactions and season passes to sustain their business model. if you choose to not pay, as long as the kemper still works with all the features you had when you originally paid for it, you have no valid complaint. also, i always hear about "why don't they do this, why don't they do that, surely it's just a couple lines of code". go write the code yourselves then kids, first step to learn, fast fourier transform.

[@lonestrat]

They should sell the product for a price and stand by it!

[@handle433]

BMW heated seats. Enough said……

[@alexholdenii4946]

You’re not getting my tube screamer!

[@friedtaters8940]

Yes

[@Desirsar]

This works for computer or phone software because they're entirely digital. Subscriptions for digital gear and its updates is going to push so, so many people to become analog snobs.

[@Tony_Leonardi.]

Yes they should be

[@Canadianwheelchairguitar]

I think people are still, as always, chasing tones. Pick one you like, stop chasing your favorite tone, keep your money & be happy with what you have. You can "buy" whatever you want. You're a guitar player, not a professional shopper. Get a good sounding whatever, use whatever effects you like & play your guitar. Every time your shopping for the next "Must have/Greatest thing ever" you're not playing guitar, much like I am watching youtube videos right now.

[@BuckieBoy-l2r]

This is the future . You don’t buy hardware anymore and use software instead. Software requires constant updating, someone needs to pay for it. Cars , motorcycles, TV entertainment , music /radio and others are doing subscription for use. Every company is moving to the subscription model .

[@johnwashburn3793]

Two thoughts: the George Forman hamburger fryer made one at a time and next year two and then 4 and rhen... And it was all planned. With Kemper etc, why keep developing the the product for free? Those guys expect a weekly paycheck.

[@Alienkush97]

You been eating good huh sean??? 😅💪🔥

[@tom.m]

The longer this stuff goes on the less interest I have in paying for stuff I don't own. Tube amps. Pedals. Blurays. I know what I'm getting and I know it'll still be there tomorrow.

[@heyitsandrewcraft]

Still analog, y'all! 🤘

[@jimb2577]

If those modelers are so great why update?

[@Ixodiusixi]

OS updates should be free and content updates should be gift and paywall i would think.

[@rinkydinky-ob9pe]

they'll find out when they are stuck with them

[@liamguitars]

Johnasean or Seanathon , I know to innovate needs money some major updates should be paid. I hate subscription models. month to month paywall tones is so stupid. but a major paid update every 2-4 years that brings new tech to the table is good the money to pay people to make tech better comes from the updates. Hardware also evolves , I dont really think buying a pedal once entitles you to future updates free for life . that is not really fair to anyone. i kinda think live streaming is going to become the norm instead of shows. Ticketmaster/livenation are making live shows unbearable. We seriously need to maliciously crater that garbage company.

[@JediJkB81]

Proprietary updates to these things need to be free. Line 6 does not charge for their updates. I understand that development of this stuff takes time and money but a Kemper is already very expensive.

[@aflashfloodofgear]

I hope Kemper tones don't become a subscription 🤣 (but I'm sure its going to happen)

[@misteress3840]

Strongly dislike subscriptions. Adobe tried to do that w Photoshop and Lightroom. And that’s software. With hardware? No way. I’d pay for something extra, but standard updates for costly piece of gear. No thanks. Glad I got the HX Stomp not that Kemper one.

[@seanbrooks2583]

Updates to fix broken stuff should be free But why would content updates be free?

[@ericjenks9596]

It’s not an update, it’s an upgrade. This is no different than eventide with the h90 and h90 max

[@neiljohnsen276]

It's all Kemper`s fault!😂

[@benlogan430]

The subscription based market is the way to go broke. Nickel and dime you to death. Because you don’t notice $1.99-2.99 coming out of your account every month. Which becomes $1.99*8 or 12.

[@LiterallyJesusChrist]

No, they aren't wrong, they aren't obligated to keep working on an old product for free forever.

[@Joe-mz6dc]

RME releases driver updates for all of their Hardware in perpetuity. So you are wrong.

[@homegrownson]

In todays World, Updates to Software Should be Free, but add on programs and additional features should be additional cost to cover Manufacturers cost of development and support

[@kellygreenii]

This. Saved me the trouble of posting the same thing. Asking manufacturers to give away major upgrades to the capabilities of a less-than-flagship product is unreasonable and unfair.

[@thelastnic]

The reason they do it is because people buy it. Don't but it, if you do its your fault. In the end how many tones and effects do you really need. Spend more time practicing because if you're a lousy player you will sound lousy with effects

[@user-StevenLyleStyle]

Buy an amp, buy a guitar ,make some noise!

[@Mooneydude75]

If it has value to you, then it's worth it. It has no value to me, but my modeling interest was satisfied with my Fender Mustang III from 2012. I get cool sounds out of it, but I set it up as a pedal platform using 2 amp presets. Only. I agree with Sean in that we are being nickel and dimed to death.

[@joehealey6209]

Apple doesn’t charge me for phone updates. Updates and product support should not be charged for product repair charge away. Updates and support should be provided for the expected lifetime of the product.

[@BuckieBoy-l2r]

You are being charged , the phone company is paying apple on the backend . Apple forces you to buy new hardware every few years . Learn how to read a balance sheet . 😂

[@joehealey6209]

@@BuckieBoy-l2r like I said expected lifetime of the product and the phone company deal with apple is their deal.

[@allenhayesmusic]

The market will sort it all out.

[@DigitalChemistryBand]

Don't be digital haters.... I've used them since the original CHAMELEON... you guys come off as tube snobs...

[@johncrace911]

What does any of this nonsense have to do with Tom Petty ?

[@thesmellycatjazz]

...i play Strandbergs

[@tommilitello198]

And nobody but you cares

[@James-vr5wh]

This is the great and awful thing about technology. It has just taken some time to reach the guitar and amp community. It’s been like this for years with Keyboards / Synths and recording gear. Personally it’s not my thing and doesn’t phase me as I am satisfied with the few tones I can achieve with my amp and basic pedals.

[@joelstephen3542]

Pay for what you like….. just like membership here…. If you like the company and the product they make don’t be pissed to support them.