Is Luka Doncic BETTER Than LeBron Was at 23?

[@iCJesus777]

When Low and ticket on the same page you know you in trouble 😂😂

[@ceogrubbs]

Fr😂😂😂😂

[@samuelnicol8824]

And marz 😂😂

[@sunnyballeralert]

@@samuelnicol8824 marz was team lebron he was not on there side he was being very passive he said about 3 to 4 words .

[@isaiahyourist9554]

@@sunnyballeralert because he ain't trying to get cooked

[@euntaepark6001]

@@isaiahyourist9554 nahh who cooks who? Marz is the one who got some real legit takes in PC. Ticket sucks and Low is troll

[@DiezelFuel08]

You couldnt possibly have WATCHED LeBron LIVE in ‘08. It was hella pressure and the hype was him and Kobe and short of making a Finals apperance ‘08-‘10 he EXCEEDED every expectation. Lets not forget, the Mavs won the first round playoff series last year against Utah with Luka sitting three games. The Cavs were a lottery team any time LeBron even went to the bench

[@imdbtruth]

Yeah, Mavs were up 2-1 when Luka came back, but let's not forget that LeBron's team was also up 2-1 in the 2011 NBA Finals, but we all know how that turned out. So being up 2-1 without Luka isn't the same thing as winning a series without Luka. BTW, LeBron averaged only 17.8 ppg in the 2011 NBA Finals, I'd be willing to bet that Luka will never average under 18 ppg in any playoff series in his career.

[@traxagenda3445]

People completely forget that Luka was out against Utah

[@CatoProduction]

@@imdbtruth 2011 got nothing to with 23 yr bron. Bron just played bad

[@Tjaybndz]

Are u watching luka lmao

[@luckycarter536]

​@@imdbtruthyou mentioned 2011 twice...this made everything you said invalid here.

[@mauricewatson123]

23 Bron.His leadership, defense, athleticism and able to get the most out of teammates even at that young of an age was crazy. Luka's offensive package is more refined because of his pro career pre NBA, but the overall package I think is still Bron. And Bron was getting people's best shots because of the hype coming into the NBA. Luka kinda snuck up on people. I remember on draft night when the announcers didn't know who he was.

[@go_423]

Yea let’s overlooked that bron couldn’t shoot and was inefficient against great teams in the playoffs. Turned the ball over a lot and was not that good definitively in 2008.

[@Geeandrezzi]

@@go_423 and he still took that bum squad to the finals despite all you mentioned. Lebron was the 2nd coming of Christ around that time

[@Detroit.pri_]

@@Geeandrezzi 40 win team, 41 win team, Pistons squad minus Ben Wallace on his path to the Finals. Give Luka the SAME team and that much trash to face he goes to the Finals too. Luka took Kawhi and PG go 7 singlehandedly when Kawhi was still on his Jordan-esque shit in the playoffs. Nearly beat GS with their 3 headed monster himself too. He could definitely beat a Wizards team that peaked at about 40 wins the Nets with an injured Jason Kidd and VC and an aging Piston team without their defensive anchor. Y’all need to chill out hyping up that run.

[@Geeandrezzi]

@@Detroit.pri_ using what-ifs to debate facts means you have no credible argument bro. If that’s the case, lebron at 23 playing in this era would be even better than he is at 37, which is actually the point. Lebron now at 40 is a notch worse than Luka. We’re not even factoring lebron’s defense at the time (2 steals and 1 block per game)

[@X02Overdose]

@@Detroit.pri_ The Warriors beat Dallas in 5 he didn’t “nearly” beat them lol

[@UncleSmokeKing]

They're valuing scoring over defense and Athleticism. Thats whats happening here

[@stevencowart]

He's not even having a better scoring season,the season ain't even over.

[@ninocrown3247]

Luka and Lebron both averaged about 20-21ppg their rookies year. Lebron was coming out of HS and playing in a slower offensive era. This notion Lebron didn’t play defense is idiotic. He wasn’t elite, but he was a factor of defense. Luka is starting to play a modicum of defense, but really relies on his teammates to shore up his shortcomings on that end of the court.

[@supremeleem9488]

Nah Chill was nasty for that at 2:08. Man really wanted to say that 2007 Pistons was better than the 2022 Warriors so bad but knew he would be wrong lmfao

[@zappa3837]

Chill don't like Luka, lol.

[@eugenestaniel]

Luka at 23 now is more of an instinctual scorer in my opinion definitely Kobe/MJ/bird type mentality, I'd say Bron is and always has been a playmaker first which can be detrimental to his game but if I'm choosing between bron and Luka both at 23 taking bron still because of his impact with scrubs and athleticism.

[@zdub5125]

“If A.I was 6’6, we all in trouble in the league” - Kobe. AI factually is only 6’0, and that’s all we saw. If Luka isn’t as athletic as Lebron and sometimes came into the season out of shape at times, then that’s got to be held against Luka.

[@escoayala376]

Less athletic but still producing 34-9-9 I don’t see how that’s a “knock”…

[@zdub5125]

@@escoayala376 in this high offensive era, he’d can do that. He’s not putting up those numbers in the 2000’s. The extra stuff the Clippers been doing to Luka in playoffs, he would’ve been getting in a a regular season game in 2000’s, sometimes even more so.

[@ThanosDidTheRightThing]

@@zdub5125 Luka is a 6’7 230+ lb point guard lol. He’s the opposite of AI. Yea AI was a much better athlete but he was small for his position. Luka is a giant among point guards.

[@zdub5125]

@@ThanosDidTheRightThing That’s not the point. We’ve seen Luka get rattled when you put some physicality on him. He would’ve been getting that treatment in almost every regular season game. Being a craftsman is more suited for this era.

[@chaihavertz9203]

@@zdub5125 When did he rattled when he was put against physical defense?? As far as I know the only defender who can slow him down is Aaron Gordon lmao. Stop lying.

[@youtubewatcher4955]

Are we really comparing 2023 scoring stats to 2007-2008 bruh back then they was still scoring in the nineties in the regular season cause dudes could put the clamp on you without worrying about fouling out.

[@MIZ0217]

Ill take Luka at 23, but I dont think Luka is going to be better than lebron from 2009-2018.

[@jimadak4552]

I’ll take bron but luka is amazing

[@BG-mn6di]

Hell nawl he definitely won’t be!

[@kieranharper261]

I think at 23 they're virtually identical in terms of production and game impact with different playstyles. The league was a bit lower scoring overall in 08, but Bron led the league in scoring just like Luka is now. 8 rebounds and 7 assists to 9 and 9 isn't enough of a divide to clear one over the other, especially with scoring being easier now leading to more assists. Neither the Mavs or the 08 Cavaliers are good teams aside from their superstars, but I would have to give the edge to the current Mavs. Luka's game is more polished from playing pro earlier, but the question wasn't who has the more efficient game. I don't think you can take one above the other, they occupy the same pinnacle of ability

[@randomuruk7230]

Difference is Lebron averaged 3 minutes more per game to get those lower assists and rebounds. If Luka averaged 40 and a half minutes a game he'd be averaging a 35+ point triple double.

[@stevencowart]

@@randomuruk7230 yall jumping the gun the season ain't over so his numbers ain't set yet,plus lebron average almost 2 steals and a block his 5th year.

[@TuMadreee]

@@randomuruk7230you gotta account the slower pace of the game during young LBJ’s time, LeBron would average 35 today with the amount of spacing he’d be given and the faster pace of play, mf is a slashing god, who’s stopping him on a night to night basis? He’s easily averaging 10+ FTs a game.

[@randomuruk7230]

@@TuMadreee Except at the the time I made that comment Dallas were the slowest team in the NBA, one of the only modern teams actually that match up to the late 2000's pace. Put it into this perspective, if you could just drop the Mavs in 2008/2009 they wouldn't be the fastest team in the league by any means.

[@robertmiles1132]

​@@TuMadreeemore the year they are referring to low has the stats wrong bron avged 30 7 7 that 2008 season

[@MariWrst]

Luka came in more polished and refined alr at 23, lebron was amazing at 23 but he still had some kinks to work out, defense wasn't there yet, offensive game wasn't what it became, and honestly he still seemed at times starstruck in big playoff moments. As a proud lebron fan I have to say luka

[@jyshu21]

No one is going to admit this shit at all watch

[@MariWrst]

@@jyshu21 as much as I love Bron I can't lie like that lmaoo, chill acting like they said luka better than Bron in his prime 😭

[@jyshu21]

@@MariWrst tbh he averaged 34,9,9 the sky is the ceiling

[@michaelgieseler2799]

Was LeBron star struck when he scored 25 straight points and 29 of his team’s final 30 in the final 16 minutes of play in game 5 of the 2007 ECF? Not to mention, his game winning layup with two seconds left in OT… right… LeBron was definitely star struck in the playoffs haha what a joke

[@ceebrown2087]

I’ll take LeBron defense that “wasn’t there yet “ over Luka who is targeted by every teams best offensive player. Luka is more skilled scoring wise that’s it for me Bron was a better leader and had a slight edge in IQ as well

[@dopeman4ever]

Saying bron can't play off ball is bs. He's one of the best cutters in the game

[@johnnyblingg]

I’d still give to Bron bc Bron played in a more strict and old school type structure and still put up 30/8/7 which is close to what Luka is averaging now. HOWEVER, the reason Bron gets the nod, is because I felt the old school game that was more restricted either by rules, coaches, play styles, etc. I think if you took them both as they are, at 23, don’t change anything, and had them swap eras, I see LeBron doing better in this era, opposed to Luka in the old NBA. Luka has gone on record and said that playing in the current NBA is easier than playing overseas, but there’s just way more athleticism. Well the 2000s NBA, Luka would’ve been in, would’ve been just as fundamental and tough, if not tougher, than what he experienced in Madrid, it’d also be waaaay more athletic. This isn’t a knock on Luka, or any of today’s stars, but any fans of the NBA, at least the last 20 years, will tell you that the game is easier to be played now. Yes, players have more skills, but many lack fundamentals, so the professional game now looks and is more similar to a casual, but intense, pick up game, hence the crazy numbers this season. So it kind of begs the question, well if this is what players of today are putting up with barely anything to restrict them, well what players of yesteryear look like if they were freed from some of those restrictions as well?

[@shanerobinson925]

Bron numbers were bigger percentages of his overall team. Bron averaging 32 and 30 when the average total was 100 when luka averaging the same with a 112 average type shit

[@michaelyaroson6635]

Luka is way more efficient . hes a better three point shooter post player and mid range shooter than lebron was at 23

[@randomuruk7230]

That's because he averaged over 40 mins per game. Luka on 37.5 mins is giving you 34/9/9 at 50% fg, Lebron at 40.4 mins averaged 30/8/7 at 48% from the field, your really stretching.

[@shanerobinson925]

Brons defense separates him!

[@thsu8]

Neither of them are good on-ball defenders. LeBron is one of the best team defenders ever because of his God-given athleticism, instincts, and IQ. LeBron has never had the toughness and mentality to be a consistent lockdown defender.

[@anassyassine241]

@@thsu8 lol

[@cursin]

Ones better at offensive and one is better at def Lukas offensive clears lebrons def and his offensive stats clears lebron so there should not be no argument there

[@heem7245]

@@thsu8 lying like a motha.....

[@juice4617]

@@thsu8 clearly you didn’t watch him 08 he was a very good on ball defender you can’t be a bad defender then the very next year first team all nba 😂 like bron been had defense everywhere on the court

[@r9trstvr9trstv71]

The cavs Averaged 96.4 pts per game in 07-08. Bron: 30pts 7.9rb 7.2 assist 1.8 stl 1.1blocks 3.4 TO VS the mavs Averaging 112.4 Luka 34.2pts 9.1rb 8.8 assist. 1.6 stl 0.6 blocks 3.7 TO. Even with 16pts less bron got better numbers I ain't gonna mention the defensive side .

[@rickeymadison9583]

Exactly they couldn't have watched lebron at 23 dawg lol that's the year he took the championship celtics to game 7 and had 45 and lost

[@kingdinodragonite3470]

@@rickeymadison9583 the 38 win hawks took that celtics team to 7 games. Why are you making it like a big deal to prove your argument? Also, Lebron only averaged 23 on sub 30% efficiency against the Celtics. His cavs teammates were actually good that series.

[@randomuruk7230]

You failed to mention Lebron averaged an extra 3 minutes per game and still put up worse stats harder era or not, if you extrapolate Luka's stats to include an extra 3 minutes of his average court impact he's averaging 36/10/10 and suddenly the stats aren't that close at all. Luka: 37.5 mins 34/9/9 at 50% from the field Lebron: 40.4 mins 30/8/7 at 48% from the field.

[@klutchedup9]

​@@randomuruk7230which means more time to be tired

[@jmichael91]

@@kingdinodragonite3470Do you people ever notice the patterns? What happens when you’re the only star in a playoff game? Constant doubles and hard pressure on defense. No shit his teammates had a good series cus they werent worried about them 😭 This argument is stupid

[@temo7073]

I don’t know a non-big can go from not a good defender to DPOY caliber in one year but ok. Also the off ball point is very important. I rarely see luka cut to the basket,set screens,catch lobs, or move around the perimeter. Bron to me was better off-ball pretty clearly with his ability as a lob threat and cutter alone. And while he might not have been an elite defender he was still noticeably better than luka like cmon now.

[@ithinkimanaries2620]

Yeah I don’t understand it either. Acting like just because Lebron wasn’t his DPOY caliber self yet so now that means him and Luka were equal to each other on defense? Hell no. Lebron due to athleticism is clearly the better defender and clearly the more dangerous off ball. The man has caught some of the nastiest lobs ever. Yet they’re saying him and Luka off ball are the same? Absolutely not.

[@ThanosDidTheRightThing]

@@ithinkimanaries2620 Lebron has never been a great off ball player in the half court.

[@r9trstvr9trstv71]

@@ThanosDidTheRightThing ain't the mavericks won 3 games in the playoffs without Luka vs a higher seed the cavs have yet to make the playoffs without lebron since 1998 so Luka has a much better team last year than lebron took to the finals in 06-07.

[@Sevion825]

@@r9trstvr9trstv71 Yeah the team they were playing was butt. Do we need to explain the Utah Jazz to you?

[@tbandz9423]

if bron had this level of shooting around him at that age his numbers would have been crazy plus the era difference definitely matters as well

[@jyshu21]

You say era matter as if this one isn’t the best offensive one and Luka is still averaging 34,9,9. Lebron was not playing like that at 23 sorry

[@go_423]

If luka had brons athleticism his numbers would be crazier

[@talentedmrflowers]

@@cachedreamer facts & with those shooters Lebron was able to slash the paint

[@Geeandrezzi]

@@cachedreamer and honestly, that team was trash, even for that era. Lebron was putting up 29-7-7 with a block and steal per game around that time. He was walking on water the way he was playing

[@NerdChannelBrasil]

Level of shooting? The only 2 guys on this mavs roster that shoot 38% for their carrers are Bullock (32% this season) and Wood (center). Lebron had 2 40% carrer shooters in that team.

[@turneryoung905]

This is just a debate of elite developed skill vs elite combination of size plus athleticism plus off-the-court intangibles and raw skill that’s still developing

[@Regularguy92]

Better numbers is a bad argument in the statflation era

[@Regularguy92]

Also those “better numbers” weren’t expounded on, pretty vague there.

[@slicknick645]

Bron is way more dominant the era was way more competitive and he had less experience. I'm taking Bron easy he was just unmatched potential wise nobody could stop him defensively and he was a better defender

[@michaelyaroson6635]

how was it more competitive we have more parody in the NBA than ever

[@money1ace598]

@@michaelyaroson6635yo the word ur looking for is parity they just pronounce it like that

[@isaacalzate8262]

It's was more competitive because those players from the 2000s aren't as good as the 2010s and that's a fact

[@THISISRISE]

This man said let's take the numbers off the table 😂😂😂😂

[@brando405okc]

How this is even a debate

[@Anonymityfan]

It is close between Luka and Bron but imo Luka has a lower ceiling because of his lack of athleticism

[@liambailey1239]

23 Luka > 08 Lebron, Lebron took his biggest leap in the 09 season after the Olympics though. So the question is will Luka take another leap next year to reach the 09 Lebron level.

[@thsu8]

LeBron took his biggest leap after he copied Kobe's work ethic in Beijing and then won 4 of the next 5 MVPs. Tell the whole story.

[@jonshaqqir4575]

@@thsu8 Pretty sure Lebron didn't copy Kobe's work ethic, as Kobe was limping his way into retirement and Bron is still top 15 rn

[@floorgeneral309]

@@jonshaqqir4575 Kobe was 1st Team All NBA until 2013. Didn’t limp until 2013-2016.

[@go_423]

A lot of these young bron fans don’t know how bad bron played against the Celtics in that 2008 playoffs them first 6 games. Dude averaged like 23 points, & turnovers on 34% shooting. His younger years are very overrated.

[@showtimej2582]

@@jonshaqqir4575 bron top ten still

[@blackesttv1585]

This can’t be a serious question…This the shit Skip Bayless would ask 🤦🏿‍♂️

[@darriusbeal7953]

Luka was playing wit grown men at a young age and is more polished for the nba

[@deejjay7442]

Why they using stats so much if luka play in a era where stats are way higher and people score way more than when lebron was 23

[@Bsb0830]

Deejjay@ They use the same thing with comparing the 90’s to the current NBA

[@turneryoung905]

Lol I love how they say Lebron had a top5 defense in the nba around him instead of the truth which was that Larry Hughes and Lebron hittin his grown ass man phase, as two all-time great defenders, made them a Top5 defense in the NBA. With Brown wanting to play faster, Hughes and LBJ pushed newly acquired young Dre Gooden/rookie Varajao to protect tf outta the rim. That then pushed/helped improve Big Z’s rim protection, before Hughes/Bron could be let loose as defenders pressuring both tf outta the ball and the tf outta backcourt scorer and wings off-the-ball. Thus making them a Top5 Defense in the NBA when they got Tim protection and could force turnovers early and often to get Lebron playin in transit early. A Top5 defense that was EASILY swept by Peak Timmy in the high post, Bowen pressuring Hughes with Timmy behind him if he got blown by and 6’9 Robert Horry being used as one of the 1st 3PT shooting stretch 4’s.

[@Lekefrmda4]

BRUH IF YOU THINK LUKA WAS BETTER THAN BRON AT 23 YOU DONT KNOW BALL BRUH

[@jsocrazyy]

this aged so well its not even funny mavs went to finals and now they got klay

[@PoohKalonji_97]

I’m. Glad he brought up the 07 Cavs defense because they locked down Tim Duncan that series , Lebron played like crap in 07 the games were closer than the sweep implies he just had to play well even once ,that factor is important because the Eastern Conference teams of that era were more focused on defense more than almost every team built their identity on defense in that 2000’s era now the West was know more for running and gunning

[@jmichael91]

To be fair even Tim Duncan said it himself, all they had to do was put all the pressure on LeBron on the defensive end. Hard to have a good series when you’re getting locked by 2-3 players. The Cavs had good defense but no X factor other than LeBron on the team. Kinda similar situation to AI’s team against the Lakers

[@jaysonjoyce9708]

I’m here 7 months later and this is still one of the dumbest arguments I’ve heard from the panel. Lebron at 23 is so clear cut better then luka then and now. Luka got Kyrie and bro go bounced by the hornets out the play in. Fluent and Low needa get a grip💀

[@PoohKalonji_97]

And about Luka and Bron , I give it to Bron , one thing about Luka in his early career is how he isolated Porzingus and he never used him as a weapon because Luka is just too ball dominant

[@randomuruk7230]

Luka and Porzingas barely played on the court together at all due to Porzingas' injuries, they played 110 games together over 3 seasons of course they were gonna struggle finding chemistry. Luka's ball dominance is a conveniant scapegoat, no one talks about Embiid or Giannis' usage yet they all hover around 37% (38 for embiid) if you mean possession time explain how that affects Porzingas and his playstyle. Lebron in 2007/2008 was taking 21.7 fga, Luka this season is averaging 22.7 they were both high volume but Luka is doing it slighly more efficiently. Give Luka the extra 3 minutes per game to match Lebron he's averaging 36/10/10.

[@zay1521]

lebron stats wasn’t at pg..luka has the ball the entire game while playing with non rebounding big men n no passers while lebron played with a point guard n bigs n he still got them boards n assists n points while not being considered a scorer n a non shooter

[@kingclutch1978]

This is true, Bron was always a great passer but he started to become a true PG in his second stint in Cleveland while in Miami he was just a two way beast

[@Fraudkovic]

So lebron not being able to shoot is Lukas fault? He was an athleticism merchant meanwhile luka uses skill

[@kenneth9338]

Y’all do realize in 09 bron was runner up for dpoy so he did have defense especially compared to luka

[@herbyoung2767]

Does the NBA have that thing called Defense still?

[@randomuruk7230]

Yes, defence wasn't better back then, it was just easier because you got away with more.

[@juandalepringle-bv2nm]

Lebron wasnt a good defender at 23 either,Magic johnson was never a good defender but he is in every top 10 list

[@theblock420]

Low that’s not fair. Luka been playing NBA talent since age 14. Luka should be better at age 23. His talent matches his early access, which is a scary combination

[@torreywallace1494]

A teenage body va grown men Is different skills luka washes lebron

[@randomuruk7230]

Luka didn't even make his pro debut until he was 16 and only played a few games with very limited minutes, y'all Americans need to get your facts right with what age Luka played. He only started getting double digit minutes at 17.

[@NotebookLives]

People are just pulling out every trick in the book to try and shit on LeBron’s legacy. A lot of his haters are mad that he’s been playing like a madman, got the Player Of The Week award while averaging 35/9/8, got LA on a 5-game win-streak with no AD. This is crazy…

[@flight_knight_]

Being a two way player means nothing now I guess.

[@Tonyoung55]

Low don’t understand Luka might just look better because he playing in this open era with smaller players and a faster pace. That’s a huge difference STOP COMPARING ERAS if you can’t keep that as the number 1 thing

[@dubdeuce1517]

It's two completely different leagues from when Bron was 23 to now.

[@hairjordan2620]

Plz elaborate

[@dubdeuce1517]

@@hairjordan2620 better defense back in the day. 3's were more rare also. much more fun to watch.

[@randomuruk7230]

@@dubdeuce1517 Nah it wasn't better defence, it was easier to play defence there's a difference.

[@ryanmccrary1880]

Luka Doncic is one of the best passers the game has ever seen and this man said Luka isn’t a willing passer lol

[@ace__23]

if ur using numbers from 2008 that means they think luka is better than MVP Kobe. Luka is special but lebron in 08 was better

[@Fraudkovic]

Yes absolutely luka is better. Kobe didn't even deserve mvp in 08

[@MIZ0217]

Luka 100% is better than 08 Kobe. 06 kobe desrved MVP and I think Luka this season is better than that year as well. Similar scoring but the playmaking gap is gigantic.

[@certifiedchaos4643]

Lebron he won a scoring title took his team to the finals . All star mvp and he won an Olympic medal and league mvp at 23

[@randomuruk7230]

He never won a league MVP at 23, that was next year.

[@certifiedchaos4643]

@@randomuruk7230 he started that season off at age 23 08-09

[@randomuruk7230]

@@certifiedchaos4643 Okay but he played most of it at 24, what's your point.

[@douglaslunsford56]

This is a bad take. Y’all so in love with stats y’all forget different pace and era.

[@randomuruk7230]

The Mavs are literally last in possesions in the league, they're actually below the average possession of a few teams in 2007/2008 so the pace argument doesnt work in this situation. When you consider Lebron played 40.4 mins per game, he was averaging 30/8/7 at 48%/32%/72% playing on an extra 3 minutes while Luka at 37.5 mins averages 34/9/9 at 50%/36%/73%. Give Luka those extra 3 minutes and he'll average a 36/10/10 triple-double. Suddenly he's scoring 20% more points, 25% more rebounds and over 40% more assists per game than Lebron at the same age. That sort of difference can't just be explained away by just saying "Era" it's lazy and extremely surface level analysis. The truth is Luka is better than Lebron at everything except defence at 23. If you wanna say Lebron is better because of defense that's fine, but stop pulling out the weasel "era" bs.

[@leroyflex1258]

Same trajectory? But defense isn’t even close!!! Low tell me you don’t care about defense without telling me you don’t care about defense. And we’re discounting the era. Ig luka at 23 better than Kobe at 23 too and mj since defense don’t matter. They saying Luka has no help but go look at bron teams. Low uses stats to help his point like assists when it helps luka but don’t adjust for era. Low need to go out and try to hoop and see why they bring up about luka.

[@MIZ0217]

Luka is offensively better than MJ was at 23 yes. Its not really close either, Luka scores almost the same per100 on better efficiency and blows him out of the water as a playmaker. MJ was a far great defender, but Id say its pretty close between whos better at the same age. Kobe at 23 was worse than MJ by a pretty big margin so Ill definately take Luka over him.

[@Fraudkovic]

Defense is so overrated . Jayson tatum plays defense yet Noone says he's better than luka . Embiid plays defense yet most people say jokic is better. Defense is and was never equal to offense . Offense always wins out. You win the game by scoring .

[@leroyflex1258]

@@MIZ0217 the per100 can’t be fully trusted due to the fact it doesn’t account for era and style of play. And it assumes that players stays at that efficiency when at 100. We’ve seen time and time again consistent stars drop off in crucial times most times and we’ve seen the opposite where an inefficient player becomes efficient. Also doesn’t factor in defensive impact. Luka has had plenty great numbers but iso heavy players like him are usually surrounded by flawed and one dimensional players. So it’s easier to just stop the team and not worry about Luka. Lebron impact even on poor offensive nights were made up with the fact he was the best wing defender and took the primary target on the other team. Luka does not. Luka never will. Using stats to adjust for balance helps but you have to take into consideration actual play of that era and fatigue as well.

[@leroyflex1258]

@@Fraudkovic yet most ppl 🐐 has a perfect record because he was a two way player surrounded by defenders as well. But okay offense does win yet you have a high powered offense like the jazz losing in the finals by scoring 50 points. Funny how mj (two way player) only needed the top defensive team while adding to the defense at a top level to have it easier to win games. That’s why the two players who get brought up the most for not playing defense curry and harden notice curry plays less on ball and has only added more to his game and physique to get better at defense to be less of a liability and look at harden who still needs the ball in his hand all the time and has only gotten worse on defense as well. This is as good as it gets for Luka and unless he’s surrounded by great defenders and contributes to it at an good level he’ll just be a stat geeks favorite player like harden

[@Fraudkovic]

@@leroyflex1258 bs jordan won all those chips because he was the best offensive player . Noone could score like jordan that's why Noone could keep up with them .also jordan wasn't the best defender of that era he got shook by some mid crossover by reggie Miller on the regular . Like I said defense is overrated All luka needs to be is a good post defender and he already is .he doesn't need to be an elite perimeter defender his team can work around that. Bur Noone can replace Lukas scoring and playmaking . This is why Noone says jrue holiday or marcus smart is better than luka or curry. Because offense always outweighs defense

[@jalenlthomas]

“He was tryna find a way to cap out low” is crazy LMAO

[@GodofDisco]

Luka is out here beating Wilt Chamberlain's records 60/21/10 and don't come at me with era crap, no one else is close to these numbers with that many freaking rebounds and crap, man owns this league.

[@Lamar0305]

I remember Ron Artest Saying he played against a young Bron when he was like 15-16 years old and he was killing the NBA vets and by 18 he was ready for the League. Luka cold but the times are different. Drop Luka in 03, I don’t see him cooking like he is now

[@MIZ0217]

Disagree, Luka would use his body a lot more. That mfer is strong af and hed post up more as well. Luka would play more like a Paul Pierce in that era but prob post up more than Pierce did. Also Luka rn is a better shooter than Paul was when theyre contested. Luka has shot 40% the last 2 months and 38% on contested stepbacks last year. I think Luka would score more in the mid range than now and hes an elite player in the isolation so imagine playing Luka 1v1. With lebron you could give him space to shoot and guard him easily at the same age. You cant do that with Luka and aint nobody stopping Luka 1v1 either, the dude is too strong for 99% of players at his size.

[@aurinelson4161]

Right he would have Mf like Ron artest tony Allen guarding him on a daily Mf actually were allowed to hand check and all smh Mf be trigger happy

[@cursin]

I promise you the nba is way easier for luka

[@ThanosDidTheRightThing]

@@cursin But Lebron is in the same NBA that Luka is lol

[@OhmyZephyrus]

They didn’t bring up Luka completely destroying the suns in Game 7

[@Fng345]

I like how their just skipping over the convo behind the year bron averaged 31 points in the back in the early 2000s

[@tajonmitchel1712]

It might be Luka is the better player for various reasons. But Ron had a point about them as far as play making, making their teammates better, and trusting their teammates. Luka this year is top 5 all time in usage rate, Lebrons highest usage rate of his career doesn’t even crack the top 50. Usage tells a different story, Westbrook and harden have top two all time I. Usage rate, both in years where they had mvp numbers and higher assists than Lebron. Does this make Westbrook a better passer and playmaker? No, it doesn’t. This is why numbers don’t tell the full story, and if you use numbers you have to use more numbers to get a better picture. AI is top ten usage rate 2001-2002 season when they went to finals, Jordan and Kobe have high usage rates on that list. D wade has higher usage rates than Lebron. It shows a lot that lebron could go to a team with another superstar and they both eat. Luka hasn’t proven that yet. That’s a flaw in his game, that even if you give him a superstar, would he be willing to share the shine, or will he let his ego get the best of him.

[@randomuruk7230]

Luka is not even leading the league in usage rate that would be Embiid, Giannis has an identicle usage rate to Luka this season as well. It's just a conveniant scapegoat and no, It's not top 5 ever anymore that's outdated. MJ has 2 seasons higher, Russ had 2 seasons higher, Harden had a season higher, Embiid has a season higher. There may even be more. "It shows a lot that lebron could go to a team with another superstar and they both eat. Luka hasn’t proven that ye") Luka has never even had an all star caliber teammate and has reggie bullock and Tim Hardaway jr bricking open 3's and airballing floaters, both of whom are under 40% from the field this season and are having massive dips in form. If they were playing normally Luka would easily have over 10 assists a game (if he had lebron minutes he'd get 11 easily). Luka had the best shot quality creation for his teammates in the entire league last season accoding to SSQ (Synergy shot quality).

[@ithinkimanaries2620]

I would say Lebron. Luka is playing in the 3pt era and has the spacing to allow him to excel. 23 year old Lebron was playing when teams still had the center and PF within 10 ft of the basket. It’s two different eras of basketball. It 23 year old Lebron played in todays spacing he’d be doing exactly what Lukas doing if not more due to his athleticism. Comparing players 15 years apart is just ridiculous to me.

[@b.e.r.nnetwork8251]

Good point

[@wasdrankings1518]

i mean luka bullies bigs with pump fakes and his foot work so i disagree. he struggles more against lockdown perimeter defenders like jrue holiday

[@prettyboyniko8273]

Nah invalid opinion he played in Europe with very little spacing and thrived

[@r9trstvr9trstv71]

Theres no way Luka putting these numbers in 07-08 way less pacing the PF and C waiting on you now Luka driving to the bucket no one is there because of the 3pt ball .

[@ericwilson1185]

Niggaz compare Bron Nd Mike Nd dats 19 yrs apart, niggaz always gon get compared specially if they’re in dat same build 6’7”-6’8” 230 frame Bron got em by 2 inches Nd 20 pounds buh they put up similar stat line averages buh Luka got more heart Nd more clutch nd got ample amount of time to still grow as a player Nd get better, he’s jus not dat athletic

[@walk_er]

There is no way OG had to think about the 07 pistons or 22 warriors. The lengths some will go to give lebron an edge😂

[@jyshu21]

Luka is in mvp convo averaging 34,9,9 at 23. It’s definitely Luka over lebron

[@michaelgieseler2799]

LeBron was in MVP conversations too… and y’all love to talk about how inflated stats are today with rule changes to diminish LeBron averaging 29, 8, and 7. However, you don’t keep that same energy for Luka. You just compare the stats and move on without taking into account how different the game was 15+ years ago when LeBron was under 23. You don’t acknowledge the difference in the league when it hurts LeBron in a debate, but you do acknowledge the difference if LeBron is praised for what he’s doing now because it diminishes the accomplishment… seems very logical and unbiased to do that for LeBron and not Luka…

[@Bsb0830]

@@michaelgieseler2799 Stop complaining. You use the same argument against Michael Jordan to diminish his achievements only to claim Lebron is better and should be the GOAT.

[@michaelgieseler2799]

@@Bsb0830 when did I do that? Because I never did

[@ithinkimanaries2620]

@@michaelgieseler2799 it’s nasty business bro. Lebron gets the most shit for fans it’s insane. There are literally like 30+ players averaging 20+. Like 5 averaging 30. That was unheard of 15 years ago. Luka is incredible of course but stats are extremely inflated nowadays due to the league being more offensive based. Lebron was putting up similar numbers on a way slower era. Even at 38 his numbers are still comparable.

[@ThanosDidTheRightThing]

@@ithinkimanaries2620 What’s Lebron’s 3pt%?

[@VonKappallot]

I’m a Curry fan but damn y’all disrespecting the fuck outta the King. 27-8-7 in his first 5 years

[@christurner2684]

Disrespecting Bron is nothing new, people been doing this for over a decade🤦🤦🤦

[@Fraudkovic]

Okay? Luka is 27 9 and 8 in his first 5 seasons . But yes both of them are way better than mcflurry

[@Hunchopronto]

Damn basketball comes down to just stats now? We doomed

[@Noah-yd4yc]

Luka at 23 averaged more points, rebounds and assist per 100 possessions on higher TS% 🤷‍♂️. But I’m still taking LeBron because he was overall better in the advanced statistic category and led his team to the 2nd round of the playoffs while Luka missed the playoffs this year.

[@regellindsey2003]

When OG is the voice of reason, it’s a crazy panel

[@luckycarter536]

Hard to judge by numbers with Luka being in this watered down era. We gotta look strictly at their abilities & what they do in big moments at that age

[@jmar5127]

Lo was 13 yrs old in 2008. Yet he Truly believe that basketball reference screen makes him fully knowledgeable. Smh lol

[@Hunchopronto]

Bro yes he know it that’s why he have a fit every time it’s brought up 😂

[@donhudson6251]

Defense means nothing.

[@Coldskin1]

Luka missed the play-in with kyrie stop it

[@vishtakes]

They’re in the NBA Finals now stop it

[@386_ollo_sports]

Y’all literally hate bron with a passion in the comment section every day

[@jdot8911]

Lebron any age > Luka

[@386_ollo_sports]

@@jdot8911 damn😂😂

[@jdot8911]

@@386_ollo_sports facts

[@yurinoworry]

I think the people who slob bron and the people who hate bron balance themselves out perfectly And then there’s me, I like Lebron, don’t go crazy for him, if anyone puts him outside of their top 5, I just look at them crazy, aside from that, I’m cool with people putting a couple personal preferences ahead of him. I think objectively he’s top 2-3 though.

[@legendarywiimaster]

@@yurinoworrysame with MJ’s fanbase. The MJ stans are probably worse but so are his haters.

[@talaf6616]

Luka rn is better, even with the era’s being adjusted. Not one argument i saw in the video or the comments has moved me to believe Bron was better because they are either just wrong or don’t actually make lebron better

[@taxidrivernwo]

Let’s call their play a wash I would have to give it to Luka cause his clutch time performance. That isn’t even close at this point.

[@wada8658]

I wished they would’ve asked this same question but with Kobe at 23, we would’ve seen a whole different energy with fluent and ticket in terms of the numbers lol the flip flop duo

[@keithmitchell8372]

Super facts i was waiting also on that topic

[@nicholashackie1407]

I agree. Kobe at 23 was averaging 25 pts 5 reb 5 assists and most importantly, made the all defensive team

[@GodofDisco]

Luka is better but totally different style of play and less hype so tough comparison. Numbers all on Luka's side though. Luka is a + defender now too.

[@randomuruk7230]

Nah, Luka has definitely improved his defence massively this year but he ain't a+ yet.

[@donnycash]

Ron made a great point LeBron has always been a great cutter and lob threat..Also he’s 10x better in transition & on defense. LeBron averaged 30 as a 23 year old. With a lacking jumpshot from 3. still shot 50% from 2 & took his team to game 7 of the conf semis vs the nba champs who i think were better than last year’s warriors and LeBron did not have a Jalen Brunson

[@tylers6611]

Luka has a way more talented team than lebron did and can’t get out of the second round. Plus, Luka doesn’t play defense.

[@WillieSirmans9ll]

GOOD DEBATE

[@cantbecanceledpodcast]

Who ever says Luka only cares about offense….

[@cursin]

nobody at 23 has averaged 34, 9 ,9 accepted Luka and oscar

[@Coldskin1]

season ain't over yet

[@zoranmarkovic1123]

What is wrong is that some consider athleticism as an undeniable proof that someone is a better player, which is not true. Let's take for example another player who isn't Luka or LeBron, so what does athleticism help him, if he doesn't have skills, if he doesn't have a good three point shots, if he's bad at free throws. Luka doesn't have the athleticism of LeBron, but he does more with his skills and a whole host of other abilities. In this case, athleticism can only benefit LeBron in the realm of playing in the league more seasons than Luka and to hold the scoring record as a result, maybe some other records as well, but for that matter, even Michael Jordan didn't play that long, like LeBron plays. Michael Jordan only played 15 seasons, so LeBron will definitely have more records than Luka, because I doubt Luka will play that long precisely because he doesn't have the athleticism of LeBron, but he probably doesn't even care.

[@johnalba4406]

Some one that played atleast at a college should be here atleast 1

[@mib1415]

Mars checked out of this convo. Lol

[@MossBigWest]

So y’all having a numbers debate while acknowledging the eras are different so the numbers on one side are clearly inflated…this is dumb

[@Fng345]

You know u don’t believe Luka is the better player then bron was because that would literally be the example you’d make to get your point across to try to prove someone else contradiction in a hypothetical

[@Merkseason]

luka is not in the same conversation as bron. Bron was arguably the best player in the league in 08 luka is not

[@bradpitt1263]

Lo must be off them drugs smh

[@nardos5coupe148]

Lo be looking like he can’t wait to fuck up a box of chicken Lmfaoo

[@troyd366]

Luke at 23 > LeBron at 23…old school know he capped out for trying to put the 07 Pistons over last year’s Warriors. 😂😂😂

[@Costelloworld]

To be honest this is a loaded question because you are comparing two different positions for each player, bron was basically a small forward at that time and at that time be a knockdown shooter for a small forward in the NBA was not a huge skill to have at that time it was all about slashing and cutting to the basket, Luca is a point guard he came into the league as a point guard all the skill sets that he has our skill sets that a point guard need to have before position less basketball was a thing you had your shooting guard and your point guard those were the people who needed to have a jump shot who needed to be able to create for their teammates your power forward and your Center where the bruisers and your small forward was the slasher so comparing muga at 23 to LeBron at 23 based on his skill level is unfair from the jump

[@baileycortavious42]

The disrespect they put on bron is crazy u put Luka in that Era he doesn't survive and bron at 18 in today's NBA OMG

[@wasdrankings1518]

am i the only one that thinks luka's last year run was better than lebron's 07 run. Last year's suns are better than any team lebron beat and if people gonna say luka had brunson i would argue ilgauskas is better than brunson

[@MrSlashblade]

You’d be 100% wrong, you really think LeBron sits out Big Z can win a game vs ANYBODY? Z ain’t that guy, and 07 Detroit is better then 22 suns easily, this is the same suns that struggled with NOLA, and even in 2021 they beat injured Bron and AD, injured nuggets without Murray, an injured Clippers without Kawhi, and the first actual team that was healthy they lose 4 straight.

[@ninocrown3247]

Lebron was an elite 2-way player until his 2nd Cleveland stint. Luka is a cone on defense. Lebron started in a harder, more physical era. You still had elite shotblockers patrolling in the middle back then. I don’t think Luka puts up these numbers in the early 2000s. He’s still a top 10 player and scorer and possible MVP. But averaging 35ppg midway into the season. Hell no. Until the game changed due to 3pt focusing, spacing, slower pace and no hand checking. I don’t think Harden has that 35ppg season he had in Houston either. Personally, Lebron doesn’t average 29-30ppg at 38 years old in the 90s or early 2000s either.

[@zay1521]

lebrons athleticism n defense gives him the edge..luka is slower n less athletic that would set him back verses a more defensive nba n athletic nba

[@malikmanning1709]

more athletic?

[@keandrehunter7691]

How I get on the show? I needa speak my mind

[@braddouglas8004]

He said I’d like to see luka with a top 5 defense not realizing luka has to play high level defense to be apart of a top 5 defensive team. Luka is smooth but lebron is more impactful.

[@Themrajester2]

The bron disrespect is gettin weird they always forget recently

[@crhuynh8]

not disrespect but exposing how overrated and overhyped lebron has always been with all these false narrative and lies, which it is why it always follows up with so many excuses and scapegoats as lebron keeps getting exposed. Just like odd couple said, it may be lebron's biggest mistake by moving to the west (which lebron has always struggled against in his career) and by playing for lakers (as lakers gets alot more coverage esp with the biggest fanbase as it is why lebron and his empty stat chasing keeps gettingexposed, which it also explains why lebron cant even compete without having so many stacked teams with so many star teammates and proven veterans)====

[@stylaeturner106]

@@crhuynh8 lol😂😂😂😂😂

[@Bsb0830]

Themrajester2@ Essentially Lebron was never the GOAT. That title belongs to Michael Jordan

[@themaster804]

So when Luka ends up nowhere near bron you better keep that same energy.

[@vidalmoore3537]

@@crhuynh8 lebron never struggled against the west... NEVER

[@bevelinternational7527]

Since when did athleticism not weigh heavily in basketball... Even from availability...

[@GodofDisco]

since the 3 pt era and Curry changing the game.

[@craighall87]

But by that same logic you got to give Luca the same benefit of the doubt meaning that when he makes a pass the potential assists are not 100% either which means he could very well average even more assists than he already does Luca is a better playmaker than LeBron there's no mistake he hasn't had great teammates either

[@antoinebutler6675]

When was the clippers ever a championship level team. The media was pushing that for years and clippers kept getting bounced carry on

[@bradpitt1263]

Luka stats are nice but he don't play defense and lebron is a better passer and leader and lebron actually made it to the finals smh what are we talking about

[@randomuruk7230]

Luka literally leads his team in steals and defensive efficiency rating, he was actually top 15 in the entire league in defensive efficiency and top 5 in steals per game before the his current little slump. That's literally a metric that measures how many points the other team score per 100 possesions due to defensive lapses by the player. Saying he plays no defense is ridiculous and just shows you haven't seen him play since last year. He's massively improved his defense. Making the finals in a far weaker conference doesn't mean much especially since Luka already made it to the conference final where he lost to the eventual winners, both cases they lost to who won it all. Defence is literally the only argument for Lebron, Luka is just better at literally everything else. When you consider Lebron played 40.4 mins per game, he was averaging 30/8/7 at 48%/32%/72% playing on an extra 3 minutes while Luka at 37.5 mins averages 34/9/9 at 50%/36%/73%. Give Luka those extra 3 minutes and he'll average a 36/10/10 triple-double (which is a lowball considering his current production per minute) Suddenly he's scoring 20% more points, 25% more rebounds and over 40% more assists per game than Lebron at the same age. Saying there's no debate just proves you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[@Gotothelui]

6:24 look how depressed Chill got 😭

[@dantewilliams7458]

I’m taking bron easy

[@Sniperjones_007]

What does 23 year old Lebron do better than Luka is the better question. Athleticism and defense is in LeBron’s favor but as far as scoring, passing, rebounding, clutch, IQ, success. All of that is Luka. And it’s not even close. Lebron played with multiple all stars in his first trip with Cleveland before Miami. Luka has played with NONE and still went to the conference finals. Luka is truly built different.

[@ThanosDidTheRightThing]

He had Porzingis

[@randomuruk7230]

@@ThanosDidTheRightThing They only played 110 games together in 3 seasons because Porzingas is made of wet paper.

[@HoTSh0t24]

I found it funny that a Lebron fan said “you can’t just look at the stats. The eye test matters” because Luka has better stats. It just makes me laugh as a Kobe fan cause every time I say I think Kobe was a better player LBJ fans immediately throw out stats