Is medicine vegan? What about animal testing & animal ingredients?

Many of us take medications that either a) contain animal ingredients like lactose, b) are or have been tested on animals, or c) all of the above. What can be done? And if nothing can be done, can we still be like the cool kids and call ourselves "vegan" if we take these "non-vegan" medications?
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References
Definition of veganism
www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan...
Number of animals vs. amount of donations
www.animalcharityevaluators.or...
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[@PlantBasedBride]

Great point. We can't let perfection be the enemy of the good.

[@missandry420]

I have ocd and bipolar disorder and can't fix it with 30 bananas a day.

[@ilolaura]

Same with my depression, anxiety and more...

[@TheVeganNeuropsychologist]

I agree that if you need to take medication - whether for physical or psychological reasons - then you should take them! I did a quick video on this actually, a couple of weeks ago. Just a bit of shameless self promotion, :)

[@JkDubbed]

You need 50 bananas a day then, not 30 ;)

[@lenavalentinova2084]

Same. I've been diagnosed with Bipolar II and ADHD and I'm always getting shit from vegan elitists because I'm not eating clean enough, too much fat, etc. etc. It's ridiculous. I already eat clean and I wouldn't even be able to do that if I was off my meds

[@ungloomed]

Or when people who don't have Crohn's disease tell me how to eat

[@user-rm3iy4ye2l]

You can never be vegan _enough_ for some self-righteous people (vegan AND non-vegan). It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to avoid all cruelty and suffering to animals... It doesn't mean we can't try as much as possible. I'd never criticize a fellow vegan for using medication that they need to live or manage any existing health issues. Intention not perfection.

[@rationalskeptic1]

I'm gonna have to steal your phrase, "intention, not perfection" and put it up on my wall. Great reminder for those of us with perfectionist tendencies :) thank you for that!

[@user-rm3iy4ye2l]

quinna My pleasure! Go right ahead! I love that line :) It goes for a lot of things in life!

[@ItsCorrineSoScream]

JUST commented somewhere else that the vegan community needs to embrace "veganism isn't about perfection." That is such an unhealthy way to go about anything especially veganism.

[@Riccelen]

Exactly! And also there's human explotation, we can't control everything we use being explotation-free.

[@user-rm3iy4ye2l]

Ciel F Exactly! I completely agree! Perfection is unattainable! We need to be more inclusive and appreciate anyone's effort to reduce cruelty in their choices :)

[@robinvolz524]

I always felt bad for taking my antidepressants and antianxiety meds because so many vegans claim that veganism will cure your metal health. but I always remember that its something that I can't avoid and that veganism isn't a cure all. thank you for being the voice of reason

[@LiliiBabesxo]

Don't feel bad. I think veganism is a wonderful cure for things like hypertension and things like that. Mental health is something a lot more complex just like certain genetic disorders that I think veganism just can't fix. You need to do what is best for your wellbeing and if antidepressants and and antianxiety medications are allowing you to have a healthy mind, don't let someone tell you otherwise.

[@smsmagic89]

Don't listen to the vegan wackos! Keep taking your meds unless you want to either flip out or hurt yourself.

[@ameliorated]

remember many vegans are not medically trained and dont know about mental health

[@TheVeganNeuropsychologist]

Please don't feel bad for this - if it's a necessary medication for your physical and/or mental health then perhaps it's more "vegan" to actually take them. I am a mental health professional FYI. I've got a few videos on mental health and veganism a on my channel :)

[@AnnaScanlonPhD]

Veganism doesn't cure everything so don't feel badly!

[@marystestkitchen]

Once again, the voice of common frikkin' sense.

[@MartianBlues11]

You're my favorite vegan cooking channel! I watch and rewatch your videos almost every day! (You taught me how to make Burmese tofu) ☺️

[@marystestkitchen]

MartianBlues that's sweet. thank you!

[@marystestkitchen]

***** thank you, dearie

[@merabauzayli2246]

Mary's Test Kitchen | Vegan Cooking you are the best vegan cooking channel on youtube. i love your videos.

[@sannaeriksson8648]

I live with chronic pain (failed scoliosis surgery + S1 nerve id damage). I also live with bipolar disorder, ADD and PTSD - I really need my medications to function. But I still see myself as a vegan - and I try to do as little damage as possible 😊💕

[@skipeveryday7282]

I have a pig valve where my aortic valve used to be. That's definitely not vegan lol. But that's not going to stop me from doing what I can.

[@ladylilith1895]

Exactly, positivity 👌

[@MartianBlues11]

A lot of self righteous vegans here on KZbin will tell you to just go and die so that you don't exploit that pig. 😒

[@skipeveryday7282]

Yeh I've actually had that before. Crazy.

[@skipeveryday7282]

Well actually it was facebook but same thing lol.

[@MartianBlues11]

I'm sorry you had to go through that. It's a shame that our community can be so in inhumane and in-compassionate to our own species.

[@emyemyemyyyy]

I deal with this a ton as a disabled vegan, I need pain meds etc to survive and people are TERRIBLE about it. The ableism within the vegan community is disgusting and it pushes away so many people, awful awful. I do my best, but I'm not dying and suffering (and basically making myself unable to be active in the vegan community and spread the message in general) because something I need is made in a way I don't agree with and I don't have a choice about that, or taking it. Veganism is not a panacea and it's time we stopped treating it as one.

[@SarahRohrs]

Wait , so you don't take a pain med you need because you don't consider it vegan? Which one is it, if you don't mind sharing, I'm curious. Sorry if I misread this. I hope you can take pain pills without feeling less of a vegan because you're not!

[@Correctrix]

She was perfectly clear. She takes the medication. She needs to.

[@vidushaperera2682]

If there are any vegans who are not appreciating what you're already doing as a vegan, then to be frank, they have not understood what veganism is all about and its true meaning. Truly appreciate what you're doing Emy!!

[@aimeersd]

Botox is not just used for cosmetic even if it is vegan. Chronic Migraines and severe underarm sweating are two that I know of.

[@MartianBlues11]

It can also be used to minimize muscle spasms/twitching for people like me who have muscular disorders.

[@Manal_199]

Also in the ophthamology uses to treat the strabismus which affect the eye muscles

[@AnnaScanlonPhD]

It is also used to tread bladder pain.

[@IWantToRideMyBike]

It can also treat pain in other parts of the body by blocking nerves. This is amazing for people with nerve damage.

[@IWantToRideMyBike]

Anna- Very true. I have interstitial cystitis and I know people who have gotten botox injections for that pain.

[@tomhall7633]

I test all the wild mushrooms I pick on my landlord before trying them myself. Is that vegan?

[@ladylilith1895]

Totally, it's gotta be! 😂😂😂😂

[@MartianBlues11]

🤔👍🏾

[@__violetart9171]

Lmaoo

[@spicyotato7940]

For years I thought that veganism actually was the "all or nothing" approach and i thought it was so pointless I didn't even consider going vegetarian. It's about minimizing the damage and not contributing to torture when it's avoidable.

[@nawfam2023]

I am vegan but I still eat sugar that may have bone char, and I still take medication that saved my life that was tested on animals. I still take a flu shot every year because I have a compromised immune system. I know some people disagree with this, and I have been shamed for it but I think I'm okay. I would like to hear some more opinions on these matters so I really like Unnatural Vegan because she's a smart and logical vegan who is completely rational.

[@mehname8597]

Nelson Mandela - 'I am not a saint, unless you think of a saint as a sinner who keeps on trying.' (=

[@squarethesnail2922]

abbatoad kardashian Well organic sugar is vegan so I only eat organic sugar this one ice cream has non organic sugar in one of its flavors but it is under a strict program so it does not contain bone meal I am 100% certain but even if something else is certified vegan and is not organic sugar then I do not eat it at all. I do not eat things that are processed in a non vegan factory. BUT I HAVE TO HAVE THOSE NON VEGAN FLU SHOTS, makes me want to cry. There is one vegan kind that does not contain eggs or gelatin I am pretty sure I will probably ask for that next time :(. But I do not take any medication if it is not vegan ( I have ADHD and I sometimes really struggle without any meds) but I survived it and don't regret it. I also found this one powder that is vegan that allows clearer thinking which makes me very happy I will look at it more and might try it out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So the only non vegan thing I do is shots... but hopefully that will change soon :). Ps: I have never met a vegan that made fun of people for trying and they were being serious... I have never done that... but keep trying and be the best you can be. I still remember one of the first ever mistakes I made as a vegan it's that frozen peanut butter thing. But right when I found out I got soooo disgusted and immediately stopped. Good luck and I hope you have a great journey through the VEGAN UNIVERSE lololololololol. Why can't people just make more vegan medicine. Well if they ever figure out more vegan medicines, the vegans are waiting lol.

[@VeganOstomy]

Not just medicine, but medical supplies, too! Ostomy bags, for example, often contain gelatin in their adhesives. While many ostomy products are free of animal ingredients, not all of them are and not all of them can be found globally. You also run into people who are simply allergic to pectin-based or synthetic products and have no other choice.

[@shannonreid2497]

Thanks for making this video! I've always felt kinda bad for taking my ADHD medication since it contains lactose, and I don't technically need it in that I won't die if I don't take it, but without it my life feels like that spongebob meme with mr krabbs where everything's blurry and that's just not a good way to live life

[@lydiaehurley]

Yeah, I've felt bad about taking my ADHD meds too because of the lactose. But after going off of them for 3 years (I wasn't even vegan then), I know that they are much more necessary than I used to assume.

[@shannonreid2497]

Lydia Hurley Yeah if I don't have my meds I basically can't function as a human being.

[@allymcgee1629]

sameeee 😭 I had to stop taking it cold turkey while I was pregnant and it was awful. gained so much weight, couldn't function, and I hated life.

[@SonofKalas22]

animal testing is necessary to the advancement of science. without it the advancement of medicine grinds to a halt. you want a cure for cancer? you want vaccines to stay up to date with the new mutations of illnesses? get used to animals being tested on. I agree with the Botox and homeopathy points, however. Wherever it is unnecessary animal testing should end.

[@SonofKalas22]

***** That may be so, but that is not a solution. 1) There are not NEARLY enough death row inmates to supply the needs of medical advancement. even if every inmate volunteered it would still not be enough. mice are useful because they procreate so quickly. 2) Even if this was not the case, there would still be limitations on the kinds of tests that could be conducted, They are not volunteering for blanket experimentation of any kind. they are volunteering for specific procedures. what about the rest? what about the ones no one would volunteer for but still need to happen? no one is going to volunteer for an excruciatingly slow death. 3) if something has to die agonizingly in order to cure cancer and save millions then it is not going to be humans. to even suggest that is monstrous. better to kill rats to save humans. some procedures need to be tested on animals because while they are necessary to save millions they are also too horrific to inflict on people. The fact that you would rather see them conducted on people than rats disturbs me.

[@ComradeBucket]

Agreed, human testing would be preferable.

[@SonofKalas22]

Glywysing really? even the ones that cause excruciating death? even the ones that need numbers far in excess of those we have available in terms of human test subjects? you would rather see humans suffer then rats? Dr. Mengele would be proud.

[@ComradeBucket]

SonofKalas22 You raise good points, I let my emotions get the better of me. However you also highlight the horrific injustice that is required for us to live in the comfort that we do now.

[@SonofKalas22]

Glywysing It's not about mere comfort here. Its about lives. we are not talking about cosmetic testing or penis enlargement here. I agree animal testing should not be used there. but what about when there are lives at stake? when the cure for something horrific like Zika means the lives of legions of people is saved at the expense of rats i'm all for it. I'd rather give rats cancer so we can learn to treat it than allow it to continue destroying human lives.

[@Correctrix]

Also bear in mind that botox is not only used for cosmetic purposes. If a muscle is spasming and causing pain, it can be paralysed with botox. For example, anal tears (yep, ouch!) can be treated by paralysing the muscle so that it doesn't pull the fissure apart all the time; it can then heal.

[@layneathebutterfly4959]

My friend has that muscle problem and has to use botox.

[@myviolettears]

Migraine's also can be prevented with botox if other preventative medications aren't effective.

[@Mel-pb5xw]

Thank you for your continued level-headed approach. As someone w/ a serious multi-system disease this is a hot-button issue for me & it can be easy to remember the occasional extremist judgmental comments rather than the many who approach things far more reasonably. I choose vegan options when then exist but in the world of rare illness many meds/ treatments are newer w/ no alternatives. Most crucial - literally life-saving - to me is the IV nutrition that has now amazingly kept me alive & relatively well-nourished for over 10yrs; it's not the type of thing that has options/ varieties. I also receive a newer type of IV iron that allows me to no longer be dependent on regular blood transfusions. I'm also quite beholden to a medication that allows me to sit/ stand upright for longer than a few minutes. I doubt that many of those who say they would "never" use non-vegan/ vegetarian meds, etc think about scenarios that are this degree of life-changing or life-saving.

[@alexk.2494]

I'm a med student and I will have to use and perscribe a lot of medication, much of it non-vegan. If there is a vegan option, it might not be available at the hospital or it might not be cost-effective for the patient (in that case I think I should inform them and let them decide for themselves). I will be obligated to use non-vegan medications to help my patients and I'm not going to ditch medicine because of it. Still, I think I should get active against animal testing and for more vegan medicine. Also, I think it's a complicated issue: Is the life of an animal worth saving many human lives? Peter Singer would say, if you justify the suffering and death of an animal, it should also be justifiable for a human infant, as they have similar mental capabilities. I think what he says certainly has logic to it.

[@bekak5183]

I'm actually not a vegan, but I watch your videos pretty regularly. I find them informative and well thought out, as well as being realistic in terms of what Veganism is and can be. While I'm not a vegan, your channel has made me cut back on my animal consumption. I've cut out Red Meat completely, reduced my dairy intake massively, and started eating way more vegetables. I'm not sure I can ever go fully vegan, but I'm slowly making changes to become less dependent on animal products and I like that you don't make people like me feel guilty for doing it slow, instead of just dropping everything cold turkey (Pun?)

[@evelynmartinez6307]

I currently I have an ear infection that is so incredibly painful. I went through the first few hours of unbearable pain until I decided to take Advil. I believe that if you are in so much pain then it's okay to take medicine especially, like in my case, if it's literally preventing you from doing daily simple tasks.

[@BritzyAsh]

Check out Hyland's Homeopathy Ear Drops and Garlic Mullein oil. I use Hyland's to prevent ear infections in my daughter, and the garlic mullein oil to get rid of them if they sneak in and show no symptoms. My daughter is very allergic to most antibiotics (and vaccines), and i find that these products do the job great, with no hearing loss or anything with my daughter. They are natural and vegan too!

[@evelynmartinez6307]

Oh my gosh! Thanks so much for this! This is my first time ever having an ear infection, so the pain is something very new and very painful!

[@AnnaScanlonPhD]

Thanks for this video. I get this sometimes as. Lupus patient...I guess they believe I should suffer and then die prematurely because that's the vegan thing to do? 50 years ago most people with lupus died within 5 years of diagnosis. Now most live a long life thanks to actual medicine...though some think we should regress as a form of protest, I guess?

[@MrsPlantinTexas]

Great video (as always), Swayze. Thank you for choosing interesting (and valuable) topics to help us make better choices. I get tired of judgmental people in FB groups. HUGS FROM TEXAS!

[@emilyg9243]

I work for a hospital/research center and we have mandatory flu vaccinations yearly (administered yesterday so this video coincided nicely). They're very open about the fact it contains an egg ingredient, but they do not offer an alternative for vegans. I eat a wfpb diet %100 percent of the year and I absolutely consider myself vegan. I think it's much more valuable to keep my job than fight one silly little qualm like this. yes, I wish there were always cruelty-free alternatives available everywhere, every day for everything but the unfortunate reality is there's not. In an omnivorous world, sometimes we have to fit in. We can only hope that in the future every industry takes stock of what they're doing and makes a change for the better.

[@avarose4033]

Do you know if food dyes have to undergo repeated testing?

[@ladyatlarge3844]

I love animals, and I want to be pure and level 12 vegan. But I'm selfish and also want to walk, so take medication.

[@avarose4033]

Do you know if soaps have to undergo repeated testing?

[@hey_you356]

Why can't she get to 100.000 subs? it's so frustrating, she is been stuck with 96 thousands for the longest time.

[@mehname8597]

Maybe she lost some over the whole Jen thingy

[@billiondollarbiscuit8189]

People are realizing how much of a tool she is

[@hey_you356]

***** a tool? lol she's one of the few youtubers that still have some common sense.

[@billiondollarbiscuit8189]

hey_you She sounds smarts to a dumb person. UV comes off way more intelligent than she actually is. shes a tool

[@dcn1651]

Because of her lower jaw. It's too masculine. People will only listen to people giving diet or health advice because they think they'll look like them by following their advice. Everyone's concerned about Eugenia Cooney and how she'll "influence young girls" wtf why? Because she at least has a pretty face and doesn't have a man jaw. If this chick went anorexic no one would have that concern.

[@susannahrose111]

For vegan vitamins - it might be helpful to know that all kosher brands of vitamins, for example the Freeda brand, don't contain pig gelatin because it's not kosher. Also, the bottles tend to be labeled for people with varying concerns about what else they don't contain, as the bottle right in front of me, for example, is clearly labeled with the statements "No Gluten," "No Lactose," " No Artificial Colors," "No Artificial Flavors," "No Animal Derivatives," "No Sugar or Starch," "No Gelatin," "No Yeast." The kosher brands also list the Supplement Facts as well as all Other ingredients. So you always know what you're taking.

[@Kimtortion]

I have to use botox in a non-cosmetic way in my body for a physical illness. (I know you were exemplifying/referring to botox for cosmetic reasons/as a choice btw) As a vegan it is problematic needing/using it... But as you always eloquently suggest, I guess we always have to evaluate things in terms of our own immediate struggles vs 'vegan struggles' or the exploitation of animals at large. I totally agree with all of your points and when there are alternatives it is obviously the right/easy choice to use those. It is a shitty predicament sometimes though, huh, when there aren't such alternatives. Thank you for making me feel less shitty about it all though! Great video, as always.

[@Tamsin_bear]

Thank you for addressing this! I have to take a lot of medication, and it's not fair that I should be made to feel guilty for this. My quality of life would be very low without it, and I would be too sick to promote the vegan message. I'm sure I am helping the world MORE by taking my medication, and being able to advocate for veganism and other important messages.

[@laserwolf65]

My wife has two neurological disorder for which she get botox injections in her neck and shoulders. Will never feel shame for using it.

[@sarahaubrey320]

laserwolf65 in that case it's necessary and effective medication not purely cosmetic as she pointed out

[@linael-saieh8089]

I agreed with up until you started talking about homeopathic medicine. I have sever seasonal allergies and I can't take medication. It doesn't really work on me, I get way to drowsy to function, they give me migraines and make me sick to my stomach and I've tried a lot of different allergy medication. My son's doctor (who's also a homeopath) recommended I try homeopathic medicine for it and it worked! It was the first thing that gave me relief from the horrible allergies.

[@yourjoywillturntoashesinyo3844]

I love that you're willing to admit to wearing cheap basic men's shirts from Wal-Mart.

[@TeddySaxbang659]

Last year I was prescribed iron supplements that contained gelatin, as I was displeased to learn, but I took them for a little bit and worked with my physician to eventually find an alternative. The downside is that it was much more costly, but I still felt better about it. I only had to take them 8 months, thankfully. She also wanted me to continue taking lactulose for constipation, but I switched to magnesium citrate powder quite some time ago, and I much prefer it.

[@Mary-op8hi]

Thank you so much for this! I have been told (mostly by raw vegans) that so long as I'm on medication (for my genetic disorder, seizure disorder, panic and anxiety disorders, and my endometriosis (yes I have a lot of health thing ha)) I cannot call myself a "true" vegan. Although this never really got to me, it is so important to let the world know that hey, most of us are reasonable, and that yes, you can fucking be vegan and take the medication you fucking need to live! This is important for both reducing the level of shaming that happens within the community, especially towards vegans who are sick and/or disabled, and for making veganism actually look attainable and enticing to the average nonvegan who could be scared if they think that all vegans take a "no medication" stance, as you talked about. I'm going to end my comment a la Miss Anthropy, "I'm chronically ill and physically disabled and I, shockingly enough, can't fix it with 30 fucking bananas a day"

[@xvipergaming2760]

Some vegans just eat vegan some vegans eat vegans eat vegan and use vegan products I try to steer clear of all animal tested products and clothings made from leather but sometimes I slip up because I'm only 11 and I still go to school and I'm sure there are animal tested products there so everyone is perfect i think you hit a lot of good points !

[@vidushaperera2682]

Can't appreciate you enough for being vegan (saving animals, good health, and better for the environment)!! I wish you good heath, wisdom and many blessings to have a great vegan journey!

[@ninakapp5441]

A tip from someone who works on a boat: Chew ginger against motionsickness! Thanks for the great video!

[@pfcheather]

Without botox for my migraines I can't function. Botox is not just cosmetic, some people legitimately require the use if it and there is no alternative. Just FYI.

[@MirandolinaAmaldin]

I really didn't like taking medicine in gelatine capsules and got the suggestion to remove the capsule and just take the substance but a) the capsule is needed for a slow release of the active agent into the body and b) why would it be more vegan to remove the capsule and throw it away?

[@sarah9900]

Could you do a video on animal testing in the beauty industry? That's DEFINITELY avoidable but something that took me a year or two in to realize. Thank you for putting out the kinder vegan activism message!

[@joanawoelpl]

I've been doing botox since i was 10 due to medical reasons that are somewhat cosmetic (its to help balance a nerve that is paralyzed on my face... Should i stop?

[@ameliorated]

I think medication is a good topic to discuss and research when people can but when your acctually ill you should probably put your health first and not hesitate too long then around whether the medication is vegan. Ie when you are well you can look up ways to treat headaches etc that are vegan, but when your blinded by migraine that isn't a great time to look things up.

[@bereny45]

I really thank you for this video. I've had people criticizing me for taking oestro progestative birth control, that both contain lactose and were tested on animal, saying I could use something else. I've endometriosis and I have to take it, except according to those people I should go the alt medicine way. Same thing with painkillers, I should somehow deal with the pain and not support animal use in their fabrication. Anyways, I know I'm right to take it, it allows me to be less tired and have less pain which allows me to cook and be able to eat vegan. But it's always reassuring to hear vegans say this.

[@Mycenaea]

What are your thoughts on glue used in shoes that have animal ingredients in them? Do you only order shoes from companies you know only use vegan glue? Is this something I should put more thought into, or would this fall under things that are too inconvenient(would have to order online, maybe send back and forth if the size doesn't work for me)?

[@dinglydellification]

Thanks very much for this video. I am a rarer sort of vegan in that I'm in the older age group and I know that that age group is largely untapped and left behind when it comes to veganism. The all or nothing approach is not going to warm people to the cause. By the time we reach middle age lots of us are a walking pharmacy of medications and to tell people that they can't be vegan if they take already prescribed medication is counter-productive. It is far better to initially get people eating a vegan diet and still taking their medication. Then hopefully medicine usage will decline as people gain better health and turn around some of the health problems related to middle age. People will feel that veganism is too extreme for them if they feel that they cannot take any medication. We need to get the world vegan and then the pharmaceutical companies will stop putting animal products into their medication.

[@lizzygrant2282]

i recently found out that my adhd medicine has gelatin in it and i have no other option i have to use it. am i not vegetarian anymore (._.)

[@ReflectingShadow]

i just found the shell of one of my pregnancy supplements also uses gelatin and was super bummed out by it. but throwing away the whole bottle now would be even more stupid i suppose. can only be more careful in the future and look for a better option.

[@mehname8597]

Nelson Mandela - 'I am not a saint, unless you think of a saint as a sinner who keeps on trying.' (= Keep going ! Work your way to only getting better and cutting out more animal products and making more chances , you can only do your best and if the world had more vegans then there would be less slaughterhouses , less gelatin and more alternatives.

[@marshmallowcat7062]

Hey, I know you commented it 4 years ago, but it's ok to take ADHD meds with gelatin in it, in my opinion. My medicine (Vyvanse) Contains gelatin and it is the only drug that helps me cope with daily life. I tried many meds, trust me. It's ok.

[@monavanderwaal7108]

Hey Swayze :) I really hope you read this comment, but could you do a video on the link between Veganism and Feminism and how that may help or harm the movement? Freelee and Kristina I know both identify as feminists and I'm pretty sure Sorsha does too. I've heard Sorsha say something like Vegans and Feminism go together well because if you're vegan you're against the rape of female cows or something like that. Obviously this is just a suggestion and if you do read this I hope you're having a nice day :)

[@cuteycat2214]

What about something like an acne medication? It’s not completely medically necessary, but I also hated my skin before I started taking them.

[@Fryheart]

I think you left out one of the most important things: while it can be ok to take a medicine containing parts or products of animals if there's no way around, we should not, in any way, passively accept it and just give in. We should voice our opinion and tell doctors and companies that we want products without animals in it. The thing about "do not feel bad" is also pretty wrong in my opinion. If you do not feel bad for the animals killed in the labs, just because they are fewer than those killed for food... I don't know what to say. Animals are individuals, not numbers. Does it matter if you're killed alone or with company? If we treat animals like numbers and not individuals we are no better than non-vegans.

[@jessw2369]

I love that you're this great voice of reason and you don't just go with the flow of latest trends

[@lolitamarguerita]

Just watched this so I can feel better about myself. It worked.

[@IWantToRideMyBike]

I have a very painful genetic disorder that requires a lot of medication to control. In the future, if I ever have enough money, I will attempt to get my medications from a compounding pharmacy. It's the same medications, just without fillers and you can request cellulose capsules.

[@iMarieKelly]

There is no such thing as the perfect person, let alone perfect vegan. And I bet most of those vegans who are in a clique online have "messed up" from time to time. It happens. Being vegan, you *have* to compromise, and just do the best *YOU* can. Each thing you do is a step forward, and makes a difference. Unfortunately, putting up with snide comments when we do something "unvegan" is just what we have to do. Just remember that everything you do to be vegan, makes a positive impact. That is enough. It also makes me laugh when non vegans call us up on things and then try to tell *US* how to be vegan... 😒

[@JenniferRae84]

Thank you! I appreciate your reasonable & balanced approach.

[@mariaacosta1512]

What about Juvederm? It's also owned by Allergan, Inc..Freelee admitted to using that, not Botox. Either way, Allergen as a company does test on animals for many other products . I get some people need meds, but no one needs facial fillers. I think this was a selfish act by Freelee.

[@MartianBlues11]

Products like Botox are used for other things too, though. I have a muscular disorder that causes constant twitching and painful spasms. Botox can be used to "paralyze" the muscle and stop the twitching/spasms for quite a long while. Another commenter mentioned that some folks use it for "excessive underarm sweating" as well, but I can't speak to that.

[@lexximoon3190]

This sucks, I have chronic ocular migraines, and Botox is something they want me to try because the pills and every other thing we have tried is not working. I have at one point had 16 migraines in one month. And I am willing to try anything at this point/

[@jessw2369]

Since a friend told me about you recently, you have definitely become my favorite vegan youtuber!

[@ProIfrid]

I really like your videos because you have that scientific feel to them and you are not just bashing or something like that. :D

[@Sweetbeariesart]

Maybe this sounds kind of silly, but what about doing a video about ideas for a vegan baby shower. I am sure this exists, but I have never seen it.

[@ichabedichlieb4745]

Well and dont forget to mention that people should think about whether they really need the medicine or not. Often people just buy " a ton of" medicine when they get something harmless like a cold etc. and they smash in the medicine. You usually dont need any medicine at all for a lot of those things. You´ll overcome them in time. So I´d also suggest to take that into consideration.

[@gh0stbat110]

So I am a vegan transgender guy, and I’m curious on your opinion, let’s say hormone replacement therapy was derived from animals or tested on animals, HRT is often seen as cosmetic but it’s a form of therapy and often saves lives. Would you consider it vegan if I started HRT?

[@user-tz8fe6mt2n]

Thank you so much for always encouraging people and creating this welcoming environment that you base on scientific evidence! Veganism needs more advocates like you!

[@bo_trilly]

Great stuff overall. I didn't know Dramamine wasn't vegan. Except... I'm very curious as to why you would buy from Wal-Mart when a goodwill or thrift option is available. Consumerism in general is a giant problem, not just animal product consumerism. If we can all agree the moral baseline isn't the vegan label, then we can all agree that, naturally, we should be concerned about supporting intrinsically unethical corporations like Wal-Mart who have been historically shitty on a number of fronts, not least of which was the Bangladesh factory collapse in 2013 killing over a thousand of exploited workers.

[@theanemicproblematicvegan7998]

the only times I've heard that argument, it was from meat eaters claiming that being vegan is impossible. not by vegans bashing on other vegans...

[@quinnhogan]

Just letting you know Botox can be a necessary medication. I have a friend who has cerebral palsy and she takes Botox injections in her leg to reduce the pain in her leg and increase the muscle strength so she can walk properly.

[@crazyrunningmom]

Maybe someone mentioned this but Botox is also an off label treatment for cerebral palsy. My son gets shots in his leg every three months. For him the on going medical testing is essential. I don't this this is what UV is talking about though.

[@tami-sch]

THANKS FOR THIS VIDEO. I need medicine due to hormonal issues that I've had since birth and if I don't take them it would mean serious consequences health-wise. Most of the drugs I need to take are tested on animals AND contain animal byproducts, but I can't avoid it :(

[@sophie3588]

Thank you! My perspective, as a vegan pharmacist, mirrors this rationale. :)

[@diannegoode5172]

My concern about medication is not if it vegan or not. More that the use of animals in research has become overshadowed by the eating of animals. The phrase animal testing in its self makes the process sound less bad. Lot of people still believe vivesection to be a neccasery evil. They forget the failures and harm caused by some drugs used on animals. As well as the animals masses amounts of money is need for research. It can take years for drugs to get to human trial and then be found too dangerous. Despite this people look to these ones for cures. People are beginning to accept that going vegan is good for people planet and animals. Sadly they remain convinced animal trial are need for medication. We need to focus more on this issue and tell people the harm it does not to animals only but to people. Remember Thalidomide?

[@phantomaniperv]

I'm transgender and I am about to start HRT within the next month or so. I would prefer medication without animal products, I just don't think they're available. Obviously, I have little control over this. It makes me feel bad, but to offset that I am trying to get my government to change it's policy on certain vegan-related topics.

[@Jon-Doe]

The meat I buy is no longer alive so thats okay right? If the medicine is no longer tested on animals thats okay right?

[@aao7785]

Botox is not used just for cosmetics My aunt has Bell’s palsy and a Stoke and she has to get regular Botox so her face works otherwise she can’t blink or use her mouth

[@petrap9214]

I guess some people just go overboard and are too fanatical about everything.

[@1998tkhri]

What about antihistamines when it's not life-or-death? I take Zyrtec in the Spring, since I get allergies. I won't die without it, but I'd be miserable.

[@rayvenner3340]

Love staying until the end of the video for the random endings XD buying mens pants and shorts are the best because not only are you guaranteed a pocket but a pocket that's a good size!

[@zacalrayyis2607]

Two points:1- Although I agree with the point in this video, your approach seems to focus too much on making veganism look good and moderate instead of reducing suffering. Veganism in itself is disliked by most people because it is an idea opposed to their lifestyles. Popularity does not mean anything. 2- You seem to have a habit of exaggerating extreme ideas and their presence within veganism. The vast majority of vegans (all the vegans I know at least) are okay with medicine that's tested on animals if it's necessary to your health, and I couldn't find a single vegan online who thinks breastfeeding is not vegan. I don't think exaggerating the presence of those ideas does any good. The vegan community is better than your impression of them.

[@meganp9960]

I have an interesting view for the Botox standpoint... Botox is approved to treat chronic migraines (more than 4 migraines days a week) or more than 15 migraine days a month. For someone with chronic migraines, who all other medications have failed or the medications are controlled to 9 per month (sumatriptan) it isn't enough if you have daily migraines (such as myself). Botox was a recommended therapy, it does not cure but does treat chronic, severe migraines. Though it is not something I have actually done, it is something I would consider, even as a vegan, due to the severity of the migraines (the longest migraine lasting 16 hours, with awful light and sound sensitivity, and severe pain). Does the pain outweigh the consequences of the Botox industry, if not used for cosmetic reasons? Link to a single source: newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-q-and-a-botox-a-treatment-for-chronic-migraine-headaches-but-not-a-cure/

[@ladylilith1895]

I agree. As long as we all try to reduce the animal testing we're going in the right direction, eventually the demand for it will counteract some of the damage we've already caused 🤓 Hope you're doing great. Please let us know when the little Lima Bean is born 😍😍😍. Much love & peace 💕

[@justmalake]

What if i study biology and we do testing on animals but i recently went on a plant based diet?

[@echofoxyful]

If you're just on a plant based diet then you're not vegan though? Vegan being compassionate choices with everything you consume, be it makeup, entertainment, clothes etc. If you're transiting to a vegan life than maybe you'll need to enquiry with a biology student to find out what happens on the course.

[@LynxChan]

If you are a student you will not do studies on animals yourself. You will however very likely be expected to do dissections. Some (but not all) schools will have options for passing classes while opting out of dissections, but many will penalize you in terms of points (so for instance you can do an alternative to a dissection but only get a passing grade, not high marks), so you will have to evaluate what to do depending on the situation. If you decide to continue within biology, there are plenty of fields that do not involve animal testing (the vast majority, in fact) so you can be a biologist and not work with animals.

[@BriJo91]

great video! thanks! absolutely agree with you.

[@misstambourinegirl91]

Just to throw this out there, botox is often used to treat and manage extreme chronic pain. People take this as a last resort to manage terrible pain so they can live their lives.

[@patrickhukins]

You're awesome! Love you so much

[@KrazyKayKay77]

Can you please do a video on vaccination?

[@Sarahnewks]

She did one

[@crazywaffleking]

Only retards who wear diapers and a tinfoil hat are against them.

[@skipeveryday7282]

Nice ad hominem Bro.

[@jeffk464]

Yes, I was thinking about getting a flew shot but was worried about catching autism.

[@MyMinimalistBaby]

Love all the subtle frequent mentions of botox ;)

[@123naruhina]

See, I don't think it's right for vegans to judge people because of medication, especially if they're not the ones in pain. If you need to have it to live, you need to live. I know my old biologic has rat cells, I couldn't avoid that. Many can't avoid that. Why judge?

[@heathernicole8584]

Are your views the same for sunscreen? In the US sunscreen has to be tested on animals.

[@sierra8345]

Im scared if I get sick, because I might get a medicine proscribed that has been tested on animals or have animal products..

[@CarolineGK777]

hey, I keep running into a problem. I'll go out to eat with nonvegan friends and order a vegetarian dish without cheese, then when it comes the cheese is still on it. Is it more vegan to send back and waste all that food, or just eat it? I feel like a hypocrite either way!

[@ababy6074]

How sad people are being attacked and excluded because they have to take medications. I am on necessary medications - I guess I'll never be vegan by that definition. Thank you for your stance and understanding.

[@UncleMarco]

Queen of information!

[@lornabroom8640]

Goodwill = not a charity.

[@marissadanielle2469]

Tbh I do feel kind of bad about taking birth control pills since they all contain lactose and since they are technically not necessary, but my cramps would otherwise be so bad that I feel like it's justified? :/

[@daringcow]

Veganism is always going to be doing your best in a non vegan world. Im very happy that you made this video. I reached the same conclusion when I went vegan.

[@CM-ng1ef]

God Dammit! So Close. Second!

[@annaalm3395]

good point. limit medication to an absolute minimum. just your statement "the lab animals, the little mice" is not correct. unfortunately, lots of dogs, monkeys and large animals like cows are suffering in the labs.

[@theveganpapa3349]

Common sense is such a breath of fresh air, as long as the air is organic......;)

[@mhong0717]

What about Birth control?

[@100kby35]

Why is Botox continually tested on animals?

[@alannah1356]

You look like the female version of drew

[@RowanWhite1980]

I use medication to treat severe depression and PMDD. I can't quite advocate for nonhuman animals if I'm suicidal. People who shame vegans for taking prescription medicine need to take a seat.