Is MUSIC SCHOOL worth the MONEY? (Spoiler alert: it depends)

[@chasesanborn]

Since posting this video, I've posed the question to some of my ex-students who are now successful working musicians. Everyone I have spoken to agrees that music school was a very important step in launching their careers, for all the reasons I talk about in the video. They also agree that not having student loans is a major advantage, but if you really want a career as a musician you have to think hard about the investment value of getting a firm foothold at the start, and the cost of tuition has to be measured against a potential lifetime of earnings. Recently, when speaking to two ex-students who are 20ish years past graduation, I asked how many of the people they are now working with were classmates. In unison, they replied "All of them." Weigh in with your thoughts and experiences!

[@BrendaBoykin-qz5dj]

Thank you, Maestro 🌟🌹✨☀️✨🌹🌟

[@chasesanborn]

You're welcome!

[@peteestabrook346]

Clear, well articulated, to the point and very useful for someone who is considering their options.

[@chasesanborn]

Glad to have it perceived that way. I expect to hear some contrarian positions--certainly they are out there. But there is no one-size-fits-all answer.

[@albeers122]

I’ve always thought you were an exceptionally articulate communicator of very relevant information, but I have to say you moved up in my opinion when I finally noticed the Gumby figure in your background! Well done! I’m a career guitar teacher who started out my formal musical life as a trumpet player, so I have a special respect for you. I actually started my degree as a trumpet major before switching to guitar. I got a BM in guitar performance from the University of South Alabama with the great Owen Middleton, so I’m a third generation Segovia student. My time with Owen is IRREPLACEABLE! I’m 60 now, and on the downhill side of my career. I’ve been an adjunct at two institutions, one of which was a graduate school. I’m still at the undergraduate school. I’ve had a very successful career with the institutions and my private studio. My music degree opened the door for all of that. Since I was “classically trained” I had to get the jazz part on my own, but the degree allowed me to know what was good and what was BS. Very good video!

[@chasesanborn]

There is a pedagogical reason for having Gumby looking over my shoulder, related to brass playing. That's for another video. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and for your kind words!

[@chasesanborn]

Edited comment from Facebook: “Tuition for public universities should be virtually free, as it is in most of Europe. The problem is the greed that pervades nearly every institution and there's no going back to a more equitable system. But I got a lot out of my schooling, and I see others doing the same.”

[@chasesanborn]

When tuition is free, the question becomes irrelevant. As I said in the video, I was fortunate to have parents who were able to pay for my undergrad education. That's still not free, though. (Of course, nothing is ever really free, but setting that aside.) If I had been given the money in lieu of attending college, my guess is that I would not have had the same career. So I consider that the investment paid off in my case, and I've seen the same for some of my students, but obviously not all.

[@JonFrumTheFirst]

Comment correction; "Someone else should pay my way through life!"

[@JonFrumTheFirst]

Former Berklee dropout here: for any particular school, how many graduating students end up making a living in music? I find over 800 listed for Berklee several years ago. Now - how many of them will get jobs teaching at Berklee? (you can ask the same of every other graduating class). How many will be paying their rent through music within a few years? As I recall Berklee, the history was that it was a great place for 18 year old almost-pro players to meet, and to hook up with faculty. That was a few kids each year. The rest of us were paying for Lee Berk's penthouse apartment in the Back Bay. Unless your parents are made of money, music school should be considered a trade school - guys don't go to tech schools to learn electricity and plumbing because it sounds cool and they can't think of anything else to do out of high school - they do it for the careers. Music is no different.

[@chasesanborn]

If the measure of an educational program is how many graduates make a living with what is studied, then we may as well dispense with music and every other artistic endeavour. Being a 'professional' musician is a dream that will not pan out for everyone, but there is value in pursuing a dream regardless of the outcome, i.e., it's better to try and fail than never to have tried. That said, as another person commented, tuition is too expensive for those who are trying to 'find themselves' or as you put it, because you cannot think of anything else to do. Anyone contemplating an artistic career needs single-minded devotion to the pursuit, otherwise the hard times will overcome your determination. Each year, in my opening address to incoming jazz majors, I said that many among them would not ultimately be professional musicians. That shook some of them up, but it is a hard truth they needed to hear. With every entering class, I saw students arrive as you describe, at near-pro level. On day one they had greater ability than some of their classmates had on day of graduation, or possibly ever. Sometimes that had to do with raw talent and sometimes because of opportunity and training prior to university. They stood a better chance of success, to be sure, but there were also students who arrived at a lower level yet ultimately succeeded through years of hard work and determination. In professional music, those who succeed will likely look back at their education as providing an essential foundation. Others who wind up following a different path may still look back on it as a growth experience that contributed to success in other fields. Others may look at it as a waste of time and money, and if one sincerely believes they were deceived, that's an understandable position. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@albeers122]

Chase, your comment spurred another thought I had early on in my career. I had just turned 30 and my career wasn’t going the way I had planned. Right in the middle of that I got a job offer in a different field from a former colleague who basically said, “Name your price and write your own job description.” I turned him down because I REALLY wanted a career in music. When I finally got my opportunity to really make it happen, sometimes something would happen that discouraged me. I remember saying OUT LOUD, “I’m going to do this even if it kills me! I’m going to do this even if it kills everyone I know” (I realize that last part almost sounds psychotic, but it’s metaphorical for my commitment to my goal.) In many endeavors, this has to be your focus or you won’t see it through.

[@chasesanborn]

That's determination on display. Hopefully no one was harmed in the making of this musician! :)

[@chasesanborn]

Edited comment on Facebook: Formal education is necessary if you want to go into the classical performance scene. Not so much if you want to go the jazz/commercial route. If you know that you are going into teaching, then you need the degree.

[@chasesanborn]

One of the points I made in the video is that you cannot necessarily know where you will wind up. There is benefit that comes from college education regardless of where life takes you. The question is, at what cost? Although I don’t think my college training had a significant impact on my career overall, I do believe it equipped me for the starting line. My unscientific guess is that the majority of successful musicians, especially working musicians, have attended music school. I'd say that's true in my own experience and even more so in the generations I've seen come up after me. Whether that’s indicative of the benefit of the education or the pressure that is put on young people to attend school I don’t know, but I do think it increases your chances of success.

[@chasesanborn]

Comment from Facebook: “The old model is not serving us well anymore. People can't afford to go to college "to find themselves."

[@chasesanborn]

For students without a clear direction (I’d wager that’s the majority), college or university may provide the opportunity to explore options while expanding horizons at the time they are making the transition to adulthood, so I suppose that could be considered 'finding oneself'. Some studies say 50% of college graduates wind up working in fields that do not relate to their major, and I’d guess that’s even more true for music students, yet music students tend to do well in other fields. I had a talented student who became a lawyer say that he considered his musical training not only helpful in his law practice, but essential to it. It just comes down to the cost of tuition relative to what is reaped as a result, though the connection may not always be obvious. My unscientific observation is that college graduates who consider themselves successful feel that the tuition was well spent. Even when I was at Berklee there were plenty of students who were there without a clear sense of purpose. My first roommate had taken up the guitar six months earlier. Those people often wound up more confused than when they arrived. I’d imagine that’s even worse given the massive number of options that Berklee now offers.

[@lyntedrockley7295]

The big difference between Music college and any other university course is that to even get a CHANCE of being accepted as a student you have to have shelled out a HUGE amount of money and spent countless hours of dedicated learning. I don't think would-be architects have to buy their own Theodolites (in various sizes) and have paid for lessons to be capable of building a house BEFORE they emabark on their course. I don't think potential Geographers have had to travel the world (at their own expense) and know all the Cities, towns and villages of evrey country, its poputaltion GDP and elevation above sea level before they turn up at their Uni. I don't think anyone thinking of going into medicine would have had to have taken expensive lessons and practiced (over and over) how to anethetise someone and cut them open (and put them back together). So no, I don't think PAYING for music university is a good idea to develop a music career ESPECIALLY as there is practically NO guarantee of employment or financial return. Practically everything that a music degree offers can be found for free or very little money online. Lessons, textbooks, media, discussions, hangs, social networking etc. Even MOOCs and from the UK The Open University (not free but much cheaper than a 'regular' course). The Universities in general have by charging so much (and I know its much more in the US) just outsmarted themselves. They thought there was no alternative. Now there is. Plenty.

[@chasesanborn]

It is true that success in music usually requires a substantial amount of time, energy and to a lesser extent money prior to entering school. It's not a place to begin your education, and there is certainly no guarantee that the outcome will be the one you desire. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[@jasonkeaton5140]

I'm an older guy and I did one year of music school. I paid for it myself. I think if you don't borrow and work you can make it with no debt.

[@chasesanborn]

It's more difficult than it used to be to cover the costs of tuition with part time work. Also, it's harder to reap all the benefits of a college education when you have to devote a substantial amount of time to working to pay for it. Doing less than four years is one way to mitigate the outlay while getting some of the benefits, although that eliminates the possibility of a degree, which potentially ups the chances of making enough money to justify the expenditure. Either way, students and young people in general face a daunting financial reality.

[@jasonkeaton5140]

@chasesanborn yes I'd say that's right. The young kids were definitely going hard all day with practice and everything they had to do. I also got most of my credits years ago and have a good job. There is not a guarantee of a job with a music degree although I'm still thinking about pursuing one at a different school

[@nelsonlynch2598]

Some well reasoned arguments, although I am surprised Chase overlooked the career of music education, and focused on performance. It is almost as if performance and composition are the only things university programs offer in their music faculties, although that is not true. His employer does not ignore music education and takes in a lot of fees each year from students bound for careers in the public and private school systems. This is the low lying fruit Chase (in pursuing the caveat "depends") could easily have used as an example of why music school would be more of a necessity.

[@chasesanborn]

When music education is the goal, I don’t think many people question the value and in many cases the necessity of music school. The cost of tuition can still be a sore point, but a lifelong salary as a teacher perhaps makes it a little easier to swallow. The question being addressed is whether music school is a worthwhile expenditure of time and money for someone who is focused on performance. In my case I believe it was, because it gave me the underpinning for a successful launch to that aspect of my career. It is true that I was fortunate not to be burdened with debt at the start. That could have made the difference between whether I was able to weather the early years when I was just scraping by on my playing income. If my parents had offered me the money in lieu of paying for my education (I’m glad that was not presented as an option to an 18-year old), I sense that the arc of my career might have been quite different, and I have zero reason to believe that I would have been more successful as a result. I also tried to make the point that what turned out to be a long and gradual transition from full time player to full time teacher was not foreseeable when I was a college student. Thanks for your comment!

[@aaronaragon7838]

No one needs music school to play three chord rock. Satchmo, Wes, etc., never read a note of music. John Mayer is a Berklee virtuoso Blues guitarist, but he's just a facsimile of BB King, Freddie King, SRL. That said, music school is great if you want to compose European music, a la Bach or Rachmaninoff.

[@chasesanborn]

The value of formal music education goes beyond composing classical music, but it is not appropriate for everyone. During the first half of jazz history, jazz pedagogy was not a thing except as shared by the musicians among themselves. See my videos on Mary Lou Williams and Dizzy Gillespie. Thanks for your comment!