Is "Perfect Dodge" the Perfect Mistake?

Brawlhalla recently implemented "Hold to Dodge" and "Perfect Dodge" into experimental mode for testing, which means it could potentially be graduated to the actual game. Here are my thoughts on it.
This is a lighter edit from my usual stuff, but I had some thoughts about these two new features, so I thought I'd discuss them in a more casual video.
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#brawlhalla

[@coolitten4937]

Bro just 3 stocked people in a 1v2 and didn't even acknowledge that

[@savagecabbagedank3771]

Hes just him

[@TheCognitiveDissident]

What’s interesting to me is how this whole feature basically arose from BMG’s desire to make the game less mashy, because mashing the dodge button has historically been the norm for many players. It seems now that they’ve essentially reduced dodging to two pathways: either hold to dodge as a better version of the old mashing strategy, or actually try to tune your dodge, which is the higher risk but higher reward option. In my opinion, only time will tell as to whether those will actually be good or bad for the game overall.

[@Stephanafro]

I respect the attempt by BMG to stop giving their players arthritis lol

[@starcore7507]

would you say removing mashing is good? i mean it's a fighting game

[@TheCognitiveDissident]

@@starcore7507 yeah I mean, I guess it’s a good thing. But yeah, fighting games being mashy is just a staple of the genre, it’s part of the fun

[@NightingaleBrawlhalla]

the real solution is return the old Triple chase dodge approach option we had in 2017 lol

[@Stephanafro]

That would be so cursed haha Though I wouldn't mind if they raised the 2 chase dodge limit for consecutive aerial attacks. Landing a hit offstage and not being able to recover / chase dodge up because you were aggressing is one of the worst feelings. It's like being punished by the game for landing your attacks too well.

[@justvibing2497]

Your on crack lol

[@sirabbington5523]

great analyzation video! I agree with your points about playstyle agression.

[@pinguane]

This is a massive nerf to skill imo. Brawlhalla is already a game with more strings than true combos and nerfing the ability to do consistent damage with already an 8 omni-directional dodge + wake ups is gonna drag out matches

[@rick7122]

Yeah I agree, the perfect dodge is cool, but it also just ruins the fact that if someone dodges a bad direction, you have less time to get damage on them for doing said bad dodge, it doesn't matter what hits you at all, as soon as you get 1 frame to dodge, you get it back by .3 seconds, and it makes it so reads are less rewarding and 0TD are less consistent because of it.

[@Stephanafro]

True, this reminds me of the time they reduced stun on almost all of the game's moves across the board back in like 2016/2017 and made 90% of true combos frame-perfect. Everyone hated it, but long-term it ended up being good for the game. The main difference though was... that change raised the skill ceiling by a lot because it required more precision and affected attacks. This is the polar opposite. It reduces skill by demanding less precision and affects dodges.

[@Lotusllc]

I forget how good stephanafro is sometimes literally beat dawg while commentating and then proceeds to 2v1 some people and 3 stock them while only getting in orange and he doesn’t even play the game consistently anymore he has some great potential to become a top pro if he did tbh

[@CrabGuyy]

Lessgooo more stephanafro content. Love this style of ranting / commenting on the game videos

[@mitsoku3]

I like explaining videos, gives more insight you might not have had. Also a how to play against " said weapon" would be good. I hate a lot of the newer characters after Diana was added, I'm old too.

[@justvibing2497]

Your taste is horrible in legends

[@yunethgunatilake4773]

I thought i was the only one that was going to be bothered by this, good analysis, but in my opinion i like the normal dodge system in place rn, and i dont think they should change anything

[@juven_gaming]

Thank you so much for explaining these new features! I didn’t understand them at first, but now I get how they can affect the game. Now that I think about it, this can really help make dodging a more clear option during gameplay. This would help a lot when it comes to trying to dodge grounded options that can be hard to dodge possibly because of lag. Also, these two changes both help make it beginner-friendly but also reward the better players. The only issue I have with it is that it might add another layer too much to learn about dodge. I suggest they try fix the confusion between knowing if a person dodged in the air or grounded.

[@justvibing2497]

People who think like you are the reason the game is hurting. Perfect dodge is fxking horrible. 100 percent will hurt the game. They gotta leave dodge alone completely.

[@nick_gamer9947]

Making a video and talking above it while playing is a good thing to do, U kinda just vibe without a proper text to say at all, it makes good to ur mental health too xD I dont know how ur so small, u deserve more than you have ngl

[@V1atic]

this mechanic scares me... some true combos with a skill cap (hammer and blaster stuff most likely) are gonna be much harder to hit for 80% of players that are silver-gold, and i feel like most matches are going to be prolonged since getting out of combos is going to be easier. it's not like that's necessarily a bad thing, but matches with passive players might just become 50% longer. at higher levels i dont see this mechanic messing up the flow of gameplay too much but i feel like golds are gonna hate this change. they pretty much run the community after all lol very speculative statement but hey who knows maybe im a prophet

[@tayshaunalexander7621]

This is perfect explanation. Im gold, never got to plat but I always get near then go on a losing streak and the diffrence is easily movement. I win matches by reading dodges although there are times where I just spam true comboes with weapons im not familiar with but good with if that makes sense like gautlets. So perfect dodges are gonna make weapons like that harder to learn because theres alot of dodge reading and knowing how many frames they can dodge again.

[@Stephanafro]

I didn't even think about this. At a lower level, true combos that are slightly more technical like blaster dLight -> recovery for instance, will become that much more inconsistent for lower ranked players to execute. So in a way, it's like being punished for trying to perform something a little more technical. So it will either encourage players to perfect it or (maybe more likely?) discourage them from using it entirely in favor of something easier.

[@V1atic]

@@Stephanafro exactly what i was thinking. i'm assuming it just means there'll be a bigger skill wall between gold and plat, which could be a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it.

[@justvibing2497]

The perfect dodge will make the game much slower

[@justvibing2497]

​@@Stephanafroyup telling you man. Its going to make the game much worse and much more passive. Whoever say more agro, they gotta be silver or slow as a snail

[@sunalita]

How bout the add 120fps support to new gen consoles first. Or clans.

[@Stephanafro]

BMG's progress on those features: ☀️🐫🌵🏜️

[@sagegrewal4664]

I think the overall pace of the game quickening would be an interesting prospect, but I don't like how punishes will feel less rewarding with the exclusion of one frame strings. I suppose we'll all just have to get better at reading lmao

[@Stephanafro]

Yeah, even though I didn't talk about it as much, I feel the nerfing of 1-frame strings is probably the most substantial change to come from these features.

[@justinrush7463]

Thankfully, Brawlhalla devs have experimental mode. If it doesn't work out, nix or rework it.

[@TheCubicalGuy]

So I was thinking... What they could've done is make the dodge cooldown identical to what it was previously for perfect dodge, but _increase_ the cooldown by 20 frames for a buffered dodge, thus making buffered dodges bad at a top level but very good at a lower level, which is what they're aiming for. The current implementation drastically changes gameplay at an above diamond level which is probably not for the better, although we'll see.

[@justvibing2497]

Just remove the fcking perfect dodge and leave dodges alone. That's it

[@TheCubicalGuy]

They're trying to make the game more accessible to new players, stuff like this is gonna get added to the game whether or not it's good for its health on a competitive level.

[@kroma5946]

It needs wayyyy more testing

[@AquaYEE]

This feature would make people like me who only have issues with timing dodge actually be able to play the game!

[@omarbenjelloun2271]

so thats why my legend was glowing 24/7 i thought they just made some visual indicator of the cooldown between each dodge

[@insanity1568]

sheeesh bro casually destroyed those guys in last game in a 1v2

[@xHitroverx]

I wished it did become a thing. Hold to dodge I think was good for people lagging or tend to have a hard time to dodge in the first place.

[@jarodwil777]

Holding dodge is a good mechanic. Im a casual player and sometimes dodging is impossible. Whenever I play against great sword I never can dodge cause great sword have so weird and clunky strings, so I find myself mashing the dodge but never actually dodging cause I always do it in the wrong time. So Holding dodge is great for that

[@kuramaruki]

great video cant wait for the next one like this

[@Choosiest]

New dodging system is cool and all but HOLY MOLY THAT 2v1

[@melvinmaderaofficial]

Haven’t play in forever but this a amazing vid

[@ridikelus4413]

imo they could've added only perfect dodge mechanic and it would be great. what's the point of 'accessibility feature' on dodge if everything in this game requires precisive inputs?

[@personperson1254]

I always found it odd that the game where you brawl people for sport has no block mechanic and only dodges.

[@mishalilia]

12:54 negative afromations

[@Stephanafro]

I hate you for this...

[@Blaxpoon]

Dodge used to do much more when we had 3 chase and it was great

[@leegenny8712]

"Hold to Dodge" is perfect to teach the dodge-able strings,that's why i think it's essential to the game at least in experimental.

[@justvibing2497]

Your on crack for believe this buddy

[@troit1550]

The biggest issue with perfect dodge is that if i read their dodge and they perfect dodge they get rewarded for bad defense. Like i lose spear double dl on a hard dodge read In current state for example

[@xdmoney11]

Honestly yeah i agree with this take, there is just a lot to consider with this change

[@allaun1053]

i don't like that the perfect dodge is the first frame out of stun instead of the first active frame of you dodge being used, do u know what i mean?

[@ericpratt984]

The hold to dodge button is a cool mechanic. You no longer have to spam it but the perfect dodge, it's... whatever. I don't think it will be used that often. 'Cause if someone reads your "perfect dodge", you're still gonna get punished. And if someone decides to continue their attack but you miss the frame window to perfect dodge, you're gonna get punished. And even if you do a perfect dodge, it's just gonna reduce your dodge cooldown by 1/3 of a second. In which you're just better using the hold dodge button mechanic. Especially since the perfect dodge window is very tight. But hey, that's just me.

[@BridgetGX]

It's literally like perfect block in MK11 in that only a small handful of the topmost players are going to be doing it consistently, but at least perfect block couldn't be punished. Every average player is going to get punished with a sig 75% of the times they actually manage to pull this off

[@ericpratt984]

@@BridgetGX Yes indeed

[@vantuz8560]

It was ok for me, if people can instant dodge out off attack, i play gs and its better then they will dodge a bit late, but when u say it recovers 20% of cd, hell no, i dont want it, now people have dodge most of the time, they use dodge? Yes, but he still have it coz he hit the ground, we have too much dodges now

[@knightphantonbr834]

i need to say: i use a macro for dodging, and the same BRAINDEAD people(some even pros) that say that the hold to dodge feature ruins skill celling are the same ones that CAN'T do dlight recovery on spear true, they only say that, because don't want people dodging it's missed true combos, miss true combos=NO SKILL, but is possible to get enough mussel memory to get true combos timing with one legend or weapon, BUT IS IMPOSSIBLE to get enough mussel memory to every situational dodge timing, like of the wall combos or under the botton of the stage combos, signature specific combos, or all team combos at all damages ranges, is too much memory for a brain, and + dodging is not legend specific, for example if you train a legend you need to train the true combos and inputs, but for one legend is doable but, remember all dodging timings for all legends weapons instances situational strings, also the hold to dodge actly INCRESE THE SKILL CELING since now ensure you did a combo true is more needed since is easy to get off with a dodge, so you need more skill to not miss true combos, also dodging NEED to be ez, if dodging is inputs are too hard, miss true combos get less penalty, so now i ask who have less skill the one who NOT miss true combos in his legend main or the one that know all dodge timings(human impossible) but don't know it own main legend combos(that should be every player mastery focus). and lock a game into tide inputs make the game unfair because gives apex keyboard and NASA setups a huge advantage against notebook shit keyboards that have ghosting and missinputting keys or high confection delay/ping players, i do also think brawlhalla auto dodge/auto fastfall SHOULD have NO PENALTY(remove the 2 seconds delay) if you see a player saying that this reduce skill celling, it probably have a NASA 40k$ setup and say that to have less competition in tournaments and lock the pro play to it's hardware... and trust me the "pros aways time their dodges" argument is a LIE, no one can get mussel memory to time all situations dodges, and not everyone have time to be a *FAT NERDY dude that DON'T DO ANITHING ELSE IN ITS DEPRESSIVE LIFE of training dodge timings 24h per day*, most people have other tasks like go to work or studying, and these "supposed" "dodge timing gurus" from above would still lose games, because it only trained dodge timings and forgot to reserve time to learn reads, learn when to approach, learn it weapon basics, learn when to punish, my opinion say that brawlhalla (((should NOT be a game of tide inputs))), and instead (((be a game of thinking, getting in your opponent mind, adapting to someone playstyle, paying attention to dodging... some other changes i would like to see in BH, is a dash only button, a dodge only button, and remember, also i forgot to mention this new change will remove the need of macros and will also reduce missinputing, that even happen to PROS sometimes, so this features may reduce that, a miss input at an edgeguard can cost a entire 0 damage stock

[@knightphantonbr834]

i also remember a pro player saying that will main wu shang for both 1v1 and 2v2 because to master all combos and inputs with a different legend for each game mode it's not optimal, them imagin ALL SITUATIONAL DODGE TIMINGS, it's impossible, to make that consistently only luck or AI can do it

[@massivemansbiggestplan]

Only a fisherman had mussel memory

[@cheffroggo4363]

Taking away dodge sounds fun as long as we have dash n fun movement

[@Raviness.]

Imo perfect dodge is something that could be good but to me very likely will be negative for the game (less aggressive play, which means less enjoyable gameplay for many) And hold to dodge is gonna hurt many weapons, especially greatsword... Yes, you can try to read the 'hold to dodge', but not only is it a chance that youll get it right to get extra reward (compared to normal dodge), and because greatsword's most things arent true (1-5 frames overall), you will end up just having to deal with people constantly getting out automatically. This already existed before in the form of the feature that let you hold down and dash to snap to the floor and escape (it just made greatsword combos non existent when the enemy could at any time decide to snap to the floor and dash out instead of having to dodge or wait and play the mind game). This would also affect other weapons and combos, but greatsword primarily. Theres also times where greatsword options that are true, end up having 1 dodge frame instead, meaning even that can just be dodged when it shouldnt (thanks to how it was designed for whatever reason)

[@justvibing2497]

Think of it like this look how passive the game is now right. Now add this and the game is going to get way moreeeeee passive. More so in diamond(which is already annoying to fight)

[@Raviness.]

@@justvibing2497 the game isnt 'that passive' You can be aggressive, if you know how to against the opponent But this imo would just promote constantly getting out of everything Currently, 1 frame combos are just 'if they dont have the skill to dodge, theyll get hit. Or simply if they missinput' But with 'hold to dodge' its only gonna turn into 'are they gonna dodge or not?' in every single scenario. Sounds kinda same but i meant: -can they dodge it? Will they dodge it? Vs -will they dodge? (there is zero risk of them missing a dodge, so you have to take for certain whether theyll dodge or keep it for later or smth)

[@cyanalt2738]

Hear me out, 12 frame gap combos

[@cruze_the]

i dont like this since it makes macros a lot stronger. a simple macro to spam dodge when you hold your dodge key would allow you to perfect dodge every time. this also would change every dodge read?

[@Jade-Edge838]

they should change hold to dodge, or completely remove it. Maybe the hold to dodge could be nerfed so you need to dodge the 4th possible frame?

[@dragonsnake9000]

this is very cool!

[@EaszyInitials]

bro got dawg in his vid 💀

[@Luna-fn2nv]

you should record these things while you're streaming for less anxiety

[@thegreatalfini]

not in the video but me and my friend fought you and it was shocking seeing your name again knowing you havent played this game in a hot minute

[@chiiyon]

I don't wanna play Dodgehalla bro I'm gonna be real In paper it sounds good, rewarding people that know the timing of strings with extra frames to punish, but it's just so easy to pull off that it makes it nasty

[@its_bib989]

@Stephanafro if you main Orion I'm your big fan

[@susickanahousky4119]

love the random adhd commentary lol

[@CrabGuyy]

Comment for the algorithm

[@Flintstix]

lmao i hate afk people in team matches

[@onlinegladiator5888]

Dodgehalla.

[@amateur-madman3047]

You thought a coolmath ass platformer with no block button took skill in the first place?

[@Hikkomo]

So underrated 😭

[@justvibing2497]

Opposite

[@Hikkomo]

@@justvibing2497 your life is overrated

[@themajesticflow9498]

Oogabooga

[@justvibing2497]

6:35 opposite

[@SonofS1lence]

Alg

[@justvibing2497]

12:38 game will die quick from this. The excitement of the game already dying, well sa is agro which is saving the game. Na is so passive. 13:12 you dk what your talking about at all.

[@lummy3180]

buddy being a crybaby in the comments

[@hayatopendragon2796]

What the hell, you just 3 stocked a duo in 2v1 and won't even mention it?

[@justvibing2497]

Man bmg perfect dodge gotts fcking go! They gotta leave the dodges completely. Foda doing a horrible job. This will kill the game and the game already having issue. Sa are agro while na is so passive now. Its so bad, i thought it was just me but even luna said when the game became so passive. Bmg stop killing the game and leave the fcking dodge alone

[@fatiguey]

controller player maining orion, your words have no value

[@justvibing2497]

4:12 your fcking wrong what the hell you talking about there buddy. The game more passive with the changes and passive play will sky rocket even more with perfect dodge. You dk what yur talking about with perfect dodge. You must not playing high elo. Neatural will reset way more from it. They already do now. Everyone is baiting/playing passive

[@justvibing2497]

11:00 its a horrible thing man. I wont dislike the video, but bro you dk what the hell your talking about no offense wow