Is Power Creep Becoming A Problem In Honkai Star Rail?

[@PrWoe]

jingyuan: why did you put me below blade in the thumbnail seele: he made me the bottom tier kafka: you guys are in the thumbnail?

[@GachaSmack07]

Lmfao! This made me laugh out loud dude great comment. Always gotta do a bit of trolling.

[@aliounethiaw1443]

Nice pfp

[@jessquiatchon2204]

@@GachaSmack07 Ying Juan powercreeping Seele? Great trolling 😂

[@nequitia4665]

Kafka is waiting for her girlfriend if you know what I mean >.o)b

[@jeremywinston1]

@@jessquiatchon2204i’ve seen many “name distortions” for Jing Yuan’s name and all are pretty funny, but damn, Ying Juan sounds horrible.

[@ineedgasmoney9510]

Destruction path just seemingly removed the point of hunt and erudition since it can do their job and even better sometimes

[@grampaseri]

Feel like that's more related to every other new character for 3 patches being destruction. If none of them were good, there'd be pitchforks out about Hoyo releasing bad banners.

[@Stormfire152]

that's because we haven't gotten a hunt character since seele and topaz is going to focus on buffing follow ups rather than the actual hunt part

[@samkelly5045]

Mainly because the most recent additions to the Hunt and Erudition paths were Seele and Jing Yuan in 1.0. Destruction has gotten three new characters since release so obviously it’s going to have an edge at the moment, not to mention a lot of the game’s content has been tailor made for these characters. I feel like we should only start judging Hunt and Erudition until they get more units, in the future I could be eating my words right now and Destruction could still end up being on top, but it’s best to wait right now

[@prophetmuhammad3890]

In my dream. There's an enemy that cannot be targeted unless you kill all the summons. This somehow will nerf Destruction characters.

[@ineedgasmoney9510]

@@samkelly5045 you are very right but destructions just seems like a wild card as its role in the game kind of stomps over hunt and erudition, but well just have to wait its really early to judge i agree

[@VAYu1u]

I think that the biggest issue is not powercreep, but balance between the paths of erudition, destruction and hunt. Hunt is supposed to be the strongest for single target, and erudition the strongest for AOE, but currently these two categories are dominated by destruction characters. It simply doesnt make sense that destruction is the best at everything when it comes to dealing damage.

[@DeathWing572]

Topaz and Argenti will fix this. Argenti's ult will put erudition on the map...and from beta tests seems like topaz can do 300k in one cycle to the same target

[@ra6765]

Honestly blade was fine. He deals respectable damage both ST and AoE while being sp efficieny and tanky but he also consumes HP and that is a relatively riskier playstyle. He is imo what destructions are supposed to be - bruisers. Or berserkers maybe. But then DHIL and Jingliu came and threw everything out of thr window with their insane damage lmao. Suddenly destruction went from being bruisers to just "dps that sacrifices something"

[@grampaseri]

It'd be kind of surprising if destruction wasn't on top when every other new character for several patches has been destruction. We still have not had a banner harmony character, along with hunt and erudition getting none since the patch the game launched with. If none of them were great, we'd be having an entirely different conversation about the quality of banner characters.

[@hazamax2139]

I just got into the game recently so I may be just wrong but ain't it the point that destruction is just "dps with a price"? It makes sense that they get to be the best. I just think the cost needs some touches. I do agree that for them to be THE best it should come as a build around where the team is designed to pay said cost.

[@jepeman]

@@DeathWing572 Yeah, powercreep will fix it! /s

[@Leothemoose]

I think Power Creep becomes a MAJOR issue for games that have PVP elements too. If HSR had PVP, this would become a problem

[@saimyintmyat9373]

Hi3 ; First time ?

[@peroastinktidakhandal]

​@@saimyintmyat9373well what the point called HI3 then? The dude you replied was right powercreep is major problem if its have pvp. HI3 having leaderboard as indirect pvp. The valkyrie design was to powercrept the type released at minimum 1 years ago.

[@Thiago-yj7dg]

well, yeah, it would be p2w. I don't like pvp either way, so for me whatever

[@Leothemoose]

@@saimyintmyat9373 Nope, I've been playing HI3 for years, as well as other Gacha with more direct PVP elements, which is why I can confidently say power creep is mainly bad for games that have PVP. Because then it's just who has the biggest wallet who will win

[@amritsundarka2112]

Well star rail wasn't that good anyways in the character. Genshin still handle this problem very well since there are I think only 2 or 3 character that powercreep but all are fairly balanced and every team is unique Unlike star rail but star rail fans are just kids will say star rail more fun and better lol

[@vinhinh6810]

Gradual powercreep is fine, but a sudden spike in power lvl after ONE game patch is absolutely not healthy.

[@nuclear6539]

Looking at you Honkai Impact 3rd

[@Mr.MasterOfTheMonsters]

@@nuclear6539 Flamescion release flashbacks.

[@marvelcz8974]

Hoyo balances well if you ask me. The feel of powercreep is caused by current endgame activities being tailored for currently released characters. EDIT: looks like the video was about the same thing :)

[@mafimok]

yeah, still cant finish my last quest on SU Swarm for PROPAGATION since I dont have DHIL.

[@eljrzy1513]

@@mafimok What DPS chars u have? Propagation is one of the first 3 Path's I completed

[@qroome4548]

build your qinque and deal qingquillion damage@@mafimok

[@Lew98765]

@@eljrzy1513 You can only unlock propagation when you've done all other path "missions" if I'm not mistaken so.. it feels like the very last thing you unlock no ? (personnaly struggling too much with swarm so I just don't do it )

[@peroastinktidakhandal]

​@@mafimokif you want to maximize the propagation buff hoyo give you free QQ instead of daniel she is basically more hunggry SP depends on your luck

[@luceferprides]

I dont mind power creep as long as the past unit is still able to kill the current enemies. However,I do think starrail power creeping is very fast, but it's fine so long as the old units can still clear the game

[@nat6lbg440]

When I see people doing less than 2 cycles run with any well invested team then I am not too worried, speed is very OP when done right.

[@Adan.2005]

​@@nat6lbg440exactly

[@Adan.2005]

Totally agree, even if Jing yuan is not the best dps can still clear the content and that's all that matters.

[@luceferprides]

As long as the enemy content isn't so hard to the point that our own characters can't perform against the enemy its fine but even if it does happen just like genshin they will introduce more artifacts and new characters to buff the old ones.

[@bongajacobs7144]

I only think it matters if the content difficulty scales to the new unit. So far I don't think that's happened. I've gotten through content without Loucha, IL and Jingliu so I feel calm but I may be wrong. Correct me kindly if I am Edit:Video is basically about my claims 😂

[@deyyy-]

It's true! Jy n blade still can carry me till now. If u build up ur support right they will do the job nicely 🎉

[@pally3370]

I am a whale/dolphin, but I co-own a warp less account with a few friends of mine. We still bought the battle pass just for the extra progression but every character except those where it’s given (TB, Herta) are E0. We were able to complete swarm diff 5 with propagation e0 QQ The game is perfectly fine haha

[@wisefelipe]

Tbf I do think SOME raise in difficulty is nice after a while, the game would get boring if you could always use the same team to clear anything forever, but you should be able to keep up with this raise with free pulls, which I think HSR so far definitely has, jnless you are super unlucky you can get at least 2 out of every 5 banner characters

[@bongajacobs7144]

@@wisefelipe I get that but I've used my free pulls to get some 5 stars and I've been fine. Gepard and Fu have carried my account by I get others aren't that lucky

[@ricardokojin7]

@@wisefelipe I don't quite agree that it gets boring... I prefer horizontal difficulty changes and new modes than just "stuff that hits you harder"... I find that the most fun thing to do is play with different units and that becomes much harder to do if somehow a maxed out seele can't clear content anymore. ( I mean, some a bit harder content is fine... but not to a point that older units become useless) ...and getting super unlucky is part of gatcha.... but it can work if it is something like "super duper MOC" and not part of a main story and not something that will make players miss out on a cool lightcone or something....something that can be ignored completely. ... for example, I haven't cleared swarm disaster yet, too troublesome (tho I may do it eventually)... but it is cool since I'm not losing anything by not playing it now

[@DaviD-fi9lj]

Its not the problem that other characters are getting worse, it's just people are mad their favorite character is not the best anymore.

[@SlL222]

Well said

[@ra6765]

More like people are mad their favorite character isnt the best but whenever they say they enjoy them nonetheless they get labelled as coping

[@sct77]

Calling out the Jing Yuan mains lmao

[@DaviD-fi9lj]

@@HeWhoShams yeah i realized but i had this comment in mind before the vid even started xd

[@saddany3254]

​@@sct77nah jing Yuan mains is already at the acceptance stage, don't count. Try dhildo mains, they're already starting to tremble 🤭

[@FateTearsStudios]

Star Rail and many other gacha games need to take the approach of DFFOO and implement reworks to past characters, updating them to the current difficulty. Maybe introduced new lightcones that fix certain issues or adds a brand new mechanic for characters if they won't change the kits themselves.

[@daisukeyami]

It reminds me of FGO, they have a rank up quest to buff older characters, I hope that Star Rail will do this. Imagine if Jing Yuan's rerun, most people will definitely skip him because he's "mid". If I am the dev, I will give him a new companion quest that will give his kit a buff (better Lighting Lord or something).

[@Zecuto]

I also want to point out something I learned from Genshin: hoyoverse absolutely masterfully creates an ILLUSSION of power creep where is most often none to little such. That's how they sell character not only on their initial banner, but on subsequent ones as well.

[@LeonA0]

But this is not genshin impact. Its honkai. And honkai impact 3rd definatly has power creep and its a big one

[@Zecuto]

​@@LeonA0as far as I see, the systems are closer to genshin. Unless they introduce the dorm banner retirement.

[@ginyong6714]

this is a turn based game which is extremely vulnerable to power creep @@Zecuto

[@fiestakk3677]

@@ginyong6714 it doesn't really matter if you can clear the hardest contents with free characters

[@ginyong6714]

but those chars need good relics@@fiestakk3677

[@epicadventureturtle1363]

The way I see it, some characters can 0 cycle moc 10 and other character can 0 cycle even harder. We are at a point where more dps is basically useless. What really matters in the long run is this: clear speed in seconds, clear speed on auto battle in seconds. I think in both of those categories we had a massive power creep, because all the new chars seem to have way better aoe.

[@epicadventureturtle1363]

Just to add this here, thats part of the reason why I hate blade so much: Use skill -> use basic attack -> luocha heals him -> luocha puts down his healing field. You legit get locked into 15 seconds of animations for 1 basic attack. By that time, himeko cleared 3 waves already.

[@Kspice9000]

I'd say less that and more we have team cops of more then 1 of 2 five stars. A proper comp of 5 stars will be significantly faster then a 4 star comp or one 5 star and three 4 star team.

[@whisperviz1346]

Exactly DHIL and JL looks better than seele because their kit hit adjacent enemies. Something many people will miss.

[@WeAreGhuraba]

​@@whisperviz1346nobody misses it, that's exactly the point, they doing the hunt jobs better than hunt chrs plus

[@milmil5350]

I agree. Plus, *everyone wants to have their time in the spotlight.* Not everyone pulled ILDan Heng, but everyone did see how much ILDH mains were showing off how strong they are. Everyone wants their turn to feel like the strongest "at least for a while". So, personally, I think it's fine. This isn't our first rodeo. As long as the characters you pulled are still viable, power creep is fine imo. It's fine to let everyone enjoy their time in the sun for a while. It'll be a fun memory that stays with the player and fanbase. Kinda sad Jing Yuan mains never got to enjoy that moment while everyone else did, but... 🤷‍♂️

[@mafimok]

I dont think its a problem. I have Seele E0(with herta weapon) since day 1 and never had issues dealing with any content even now. Why? Because I build my support units, my SW, Bronya, Tingyun and Fu Xuan are cracked. Just pulled for Jing Liu (E1S1) and sure, she deals more damage, but its just another flavor of DPS for me. My Jing Liu isnt replacing my Seele, she is replacing Svarog.

[@MegaBloodrain]

You can have multiple favourite characters, that's not the issue. The issue is value depreciation. Just like real life, I don't want to invest in characters that will lose value down the road, unless ofcourse they are updated by means or artifacts and whatnot.

[@cedricjonesjr6140]

I think Hoyo does a actual pretty good job of adding in sets or weapons or new supports to help older units be able to keep up. Those buffs dont usally make them top of meta but honestly as long as they can beat content it doesnt really bother me if there not the top top

[@Manishrana854]

People talk about powercreep but all I have to say is wait for a limited 5* harmony character

[@Xailei_]

Based video. Sustain powercreep I think exist a bit, like it’s still possible to solo sustain with a Natasha, but compared to a fu xuan who provides other buffs as well as better survivability, it’s not even close. So for me, sustain powercreep is the strongest.

[@musashi.5868]

Top 3 DPS: 1. Destruction 2. Destruction 3. Destruction

[@inxianity]

Pog content - your perspective on how Hoyo balances powercreep is getting me really excited for future patches. Think of the possibilities! I LOVED it when Sampo got an indirect buff from Kafka's release, bc I always wanted an excuse to build him but couldn't find one until mommy came ❤ And my lil underrated pet fave Pela just got pushed up the meta rankings with Jingliussy. More reason to bust those flying drones out. KEEP IT COMING HOYO!

[@dragondevil69]

it's not a case where "ugh my character i spent me money on is no top DPS anymore" it's more of an issue where a character with a design/mechanics you like hits like a wet noodle imagine becoming IRRELEVENT as a person same logic applies to the characters that are being powercrept

[@TheDangerosking]

I personally feel like there is much more power creep in this game than in genshin

[@holymoly9594]

I agree but its more like genshin had a lot of power creep at the beginning but after inazuma started to make decent but not op character(most of the time there are still a bit of op new characters)

[@fuhi4080]

What I noticed is that it's always safer to invest into supports.. DPS are constantly getting power creeped..

[@WaywardTraveler77]

I love these videos man. I hope you never stop making these and I always look forward to new content.

[@p3rf3c7ch405]

Powercreep is a problem when characters are released back to back that overshadow others that just released a few weeks prior which is 100% the case with this game with the 3 consecutive destruction units. Esp when these destruction units are doing a better job than both hunt and erudition classes at their own specialties doing way better aoe and ST dmg and with minimal backdraws. If these releases were separated longer then it'd be fine but that's not the case because we've seen it happen every like single patch and I don't get how some ppl aren't seeing this as an issues

[@PersonaPrime]

As long as you can clear all content with your previous character I think we are fine. Releasing new units stronger than the previous ones is expected. And obviously without any PvP it's even less of a problem.

[@monspeet4287]

There are no middle ground to meta players, it's either a power creep or the unit sucks. Anyone who argues that meta players are reasonable people is either delusional or is one.

[@Laqbi_203]

i personally think some powercreep is good for the game since it gives u reason to always try and get new characters and play the game more for longer periods of time , and it would be sooo boring if seele was still the strongest till now like noone would be hyped over any dps ever then , it would literally be a case of hu tao but seele is actually fun to play but still power creep is better than reverse powercreep like genshin and no power creep at all would be perfect but thats honestly realistically hard to achieve especially with everyone wanting newer dps to be broken n stuff

[@ahmedmubarak751]

Yes but do you think people are going to roll for seele or Jing yuan instead of always going for Dan or jingliu ?

[@Adan.2005]

​@@ahmedmubarak751no, but that's the point it gives a reason to get new characters and the thing you can still clear the content with seele and Jing yuan it doesn't matter if can't 0 cycle as long as you can clear MoC 10 3 nothing else matter.

[@stego-]

yes, but its only good for *old players* new players suffer because they have to deal with dead characters when they come on banner. and having to wait for a 5* character severely impacts how fun this game is (as the game requires no skill thus having no rewards for execution, so the only fun is newer units)

[@Laqbi_203]

@@stego- actually it's quite the opposite right when a new player comes they already have op latest character on the banner and pull for it then get a good head start for example people who started at the time of imbibitor lunae, fu Xuan and jing liu they literally have goated characters now

[@Laqbi_203]

@@ahmedmubarak751 well yes ofcourse not as many people are gonna pull for them but I would argue that is a better scenario than if powercreep wasn't there , cuz now look we have sooo much hype on newer cooler stronger characters that it's so fun to pull and use them imagine if this wasn't there and like genshin we had shit characters like dehya that would really suck for us to wait a whole year to get blade in the rerun since the game is giving reruns so slow cuz it's only came out a couple of months

[@TJ_Sind2000]

Honestly I think they should stop here at jingliu's power level, it's a good point to stop and start focusing more on diversifying enemy design and gameplay modes instead, as it stands rn, the dps characters that are released including seele and jingyuan are enough to handle pretty much all content in the game with enough investment, imo units after this should either bring something new to the table or be as strong as jingliu not stronger, otherwise the earlier characters even with all the investment in the world won't be able to keep up, as long as that doesn't happen we're good, kafka and topaz are a great start in terms of design that I want to see more of in the future, give me new shit, characters that drain enemy HP and give it to your team, characters that give you toughness shredding buffs to your team, hell, I would love at one point if they implement team attacks between groups of two characters, there's still so much that could be done instead of hurr durr more strong

[@justinalder954]

Real shit

[@RyzenShanks]

In terms of DPS, limited banners already released 1 Quantum, 2 Lightning, 1 Wind, 1 Ice, 1 Imaginary, we are waiting for 1 Fire in the current patch and 1 Physical type in the future.

[@Ilikegames804]

So far Power creep has not been a problem. It will become a problem when Old units barely have the ability to clear endgame content or general content. Which for the most part about a dev team that does not buff units with Zhongli being the 1st ever buffed unit in hoyoverse history they balance the content pretty well as all units are still viable even dehya. Heck even in HI3 infamous for it's power creep you can still keep up with your old DPS units granted your supports have to be fully built and cracked out just to compete but it is still possible heck I am still using Himeko to clear Nirvana abyss and she is still working pretty well.

[@gameguy1337]

The power creep isn't really as bad as it could be either. You can still clear everything pretty comfortably with Seele and Jing Yuan as you can with IL and Jingliu. The later will obviously do it better btu the difference isn't a canyon. I'm quite interested in seeing how they will handle 4 star dps going forward, if they release any future destruction or hunt 4 stars they will need some added support value in their kits I think.

[@takuyamishima8]

Seele will get shoved down below jy when the new relic set is released.

[@razortk77g95]

I'm afraid the difference b/w the damage of Seele and Jing Liu is like a canyon buddy,power creep doesn't exist because there isn't content hard enough make old characters unviable

[@gameguy1337]

@@razortk77g95 I have both. It really isn't as big as you think in MOC

[@razortk77g95]

@@gameguy1337 k buddy,whatever helps you sleep at night

[@afhamsaleem7524]

@@razortk77g95bro really didnt even bother addressing his point and resorted to insults speaks volumes about your character

[@Luinta]

Honestly, I've been going back to older characters and bringing them up to get through newer content. Like I'm finally kitting out my Asta properly and actually bringing Dan Heng up to bar so I can use him in MoC. I've really enjoyed how MiHoYo is making me WANT to use the characters I have. With Kafka, they gave me a reason to use Sampo, and to be really excited for Guinifen coming out. Like, I get that newer characters have a lot of nice perks and some feel like they could take the place of two characters in some lineups, but it also opens other slots for old characters to become more useful again,.

[@andrewcook4873]

When there’s power creep I always feel like I don’t have to pull for the latest DPS because the next one, whatever it is, is going to be stronger. So if I can get by with what I have then you can wait for the next best DPS. Then when the next DPS comes around if I’m still getting by I don’t need to pull for them either. I’m still getting by with Seele and I have a ton of supports on my account 😅

[@valk5041]

Good vid. Im still here clapping moc with ease with a e0 half built Seele. Sure my Jingliu does it faster but doesn't matter at the end of the day as long as the endgame does not scale up so much that Seele won't have enough damage which I doubt is happening anytime soon.

[@cameronlittleton8240]

I gotta say man. I just found you watching Tectone react to your drama with that little bear guy. Last night I started really grinding star rail for hours and hours at a time. I have had an absolute blast listening to your videos while i play. I watch Tectone cause he's hilarious. I watch you to have an intellectual conversation about my favorite game. Subscribe.

[@ConFect99]

I mean someone HAS to be the strongest. You are right, there‘ll always be someone stronger. Imo, it doesn‘t matter in a game like HSR. Just look at Prydwen and their tierlist. There are soooo many 4-star units that are very high up there. I feel like MiHoYo loves Honkai so much, thus they want this to be an enjoyable experience.

[@sorasora1477]

it is just like honkai impact 3rd power creep was really an issue over there and it doesn't feel like it will not be the same case in star rail .. however, they doing it cleverly this time as you mentioned current endgame activities being tailored for currently released characters is also a move that make them get more money and also as you said star rail is doing these tactics but in so less aggressive way since almost every old character still valid.. especially with supports but in case of honkai 3rd some of the characters is literally unplayable now but that was one of their previous mistakes and i am glad that they acknowledge it and they minimize it .. even in honkai 3rd they start to fix it by adding new weapons that help the old characters to keep up .. i hope honkai series be better and better every day

[@themetal]

Yeah, I pretty much agree. Like I was saying from the chat the other day, I don't care about "powercreep" as long as it doesn't effect the ability to baseline clear content (which would pertain to 3star MoC 10 even if you have to run it back for better RNG, that's fine). I also like that dynamic that things are always changing because it makes the game stay fresh. Different synergies can even give you something to aim for. I'm already farming up my follow-up characters while saving for Topaz. The fact that I can choose to skip a unit and the only punishment is that I have to work a little harder in the current cycle than if I had them is good enough balance for me.

[@mruknown66]

This happen in Genshin too after Ganyu and Hutao came out around the same timeframish.

[@thatoneguywhoseverywhere6978]

That's what im thinking, maybe this is power creep for us because we are living in it. maybe a year after now they are still at the same level or even our top tiers JL and IL will be a tier down but we have a diverse pool of characters that's gonna be at the same levels

[@Lew98765]

I still don't feel any real powercreep in genshin because teams and elements stay relevant no matter what, even if they'd make new chars with more and more damage you still have many team options that can clear the hardest content(abyss) and as the game main mechanic is element it makes any char potentialy relevant Star rail is far different because elements there doesn't offer variety, they instead limit your team and serve as a punishment if you don't take the right ones, I kinda dislike that for many ennemies with only way to stop their ultimate abilities is to do a weakness break that makes elements too much important and that clearly advantage a lot whales who cat get a good variety of characters for f2p and low spenders it will take more time to get most elements covered

[@ORV-yo2jn]

The power level in genshin its still the same, some chars are good in frontload some are good in sustain. The balancing between aoe and ST is good. Not kind of jerky aoe design from HSR that has been implemented in jingyuang. Lmao

[@mruknown66]

@@thatoneguywhoseverywhere6978 It makes total sense for them to release some really great character around a few months into the game that they can then balance around for the years to come, i mean Huo tao and Ganyu are still top tier 3 years after their release even if there are characters slightly better. And that's the best way to balance the game, so i think star rail is doing something similar. Plus you really want some good unit release around this time so it makes people wanna get into it more and retain the player base so that they can continue to grow.

[@plottybara8438]

@@Lew98765 "i don't feel any real powercreep in genshin" you fῢckἶng troglodyte, hutao literally deals more damage than diluc how is that not powercreep??? bro is rẹtᾴrdẻd lmao. inb4 "bUt He'S bEtTeR iN aOe" yeah keep coping lol

[@lindapao350]

I think at this point, just pull for who you like. Whether it's how they look, story, or whatever else. It'll be better in the long run, at this point: every character that comes out is "broken". Seele used to "broken". Then, when you pull for her, not because you like her but because she's meta: you miss out on someone who might not be considered broken but that character might be someone who'd you really enjoy. I unfortunately couldn't pull for huohuo, i actually dont have a healer (which is really bad). And i really did want to pull for her because i loved her design and lore behind her character and the idea of her character was a considerable bonus. Right now, i'll see if Argenti is at least isn't garbage and then i'll probably try and go for him. At the end of the day, it's your decision on what you decide to do in this game. Im just here to tell you the reasoning behind my choices.

[@equinox2909]

Not all people can afford all of the characters and it's not always about the power or meta of the character, it's how we enjoy using them.

[@jjillalalac2487]

Careful,ull incite the rage of the jing yuan haters😂😂

[@AJLaz000]

I have 2 dps... Jing Yuan and Jing Liu they're really all I need at the current stage of the game and unless Hoyo suddenly decides to make MoC a three team thing, I don't need to pull for another dps support though... I'm definitely saving for a certain generous simulated universe occurense event (if you know, you know)

[@jjillalalac2487]

Id only be cool with a three team if the rewards are increased aswell they have to make sure we the players are being incentivised to build teams

[@instnxct]

imo they’re doing pretty well in terms of keeping powercreep to a rate that’s managable. imo rn i think the main problem is the power difference between destruction/erudition vs hunt dps characters. there is quite literally no reason to even use seele if jingliu or DHIL can match her single target dmg while having much more versatile aoe dmg

[@i_lunarr]

at the end of the day with power creep, atleast in honkai it seems managed well enough mainly because, the current endgame content (swarm 5 and moc 10) can be cleared with almost any dps unit and good supports because in this game the supports more aless make or break a team, the thing is for gacha games to make money they need power creep, if a unit is not good enough for players to want to pull them over a different character they wont make money, aswell as the standard banner characters are fantastic, clara bronya are both amazing aswell as the other 5 stars bieng not bad at worst, unfortunately having a character be new and have a good personality will not get people to pull

[@i_lunarr]

power creep only becomes an issue when new characters set the bar for the content. main issues with them releasing an op character is they cant nerf after release without getting a lot of shit for it as long as the game is balanced around all the characters and not jsut the newest released then everything should be fine also there should be content each archetype is good at for example i find doing swarm disaster with my blade and jingliu team waaay easier than my kafka team despite my kafka team being waaay more geared just becuase my characters get almost 1 hit by swarm 4 and 1 hut by swarm 5

[@Archiegaming5]

Or just pull for characters you like cause i didn't pull jingliu cause off meta i pulled her cause she's hot

[@IdeasAreBulletproof]

Same

[@caelym]

Power creep should theoretically be kept in check by the elemental system (i.e. a lightning carry should be stronger vs lightning than an ice carry even if they have lower numbers on paper). However we're seeing signs that it's better to just brute force with the newest characters. That's what worries me.

[@Helperishere]

That's not gonna matter if you have Silver Wolf. Using her on a team with 2 quantum and your main dps with a full quantum set? Out does most other relic sets. Ignoring so much defense. Very good for high single target characters.

[@shiternet4045]

It doesn't even matter if you have sw or not, jingliu can basically one shot bosses that have ice resistance.

[@Helperishere]

@@shiternet4045 very very true. She is cracked. Any character with built in crit that high will be top of the list. SW can just for some reason enable her to weakness breK if she wanted idk. Lol

[@mikerude4924]

Once we have a limited 5* hunt, erudition, and destruction unit for every element then it will be interesting to see how they handle the next wave of units. What will the next quantum hunt character's power level be? The next lightning erudition, etc.

[@theodoro3967]

Very good video! I have the same thought and it's why I pull characters that I like or have good synergies with the ones I like.

[@sorasora1477]

also there is nothing better than doing your absolute best to make your old characters broken as f*k to the point that can compete with the new characters in terms of damage output and other meta stuff, it is absolutely the best and one of the things that make gasha so alive figuring out a team or lightcone or a way to make your character way more broken to compete with other new characters is just so good and refreshing and this is a thing that star rail allow doing it with ease .. i am so glad that they made the game like that.... as long as they keep doing that as long as i think everything will be fine ... i mean eventually we will reach to a point that ofc they can't support older characters anymore and will give all the advantages to the newer characters but i am fine with it as long as they will not do that except after maybe 2 years from now ... probably i could have saved a lot of f2p jades for the newer good characters by that time xDDDDDD and as you mentioned as long as everything can be cleared with the basic characters and as long as they keep things interesting with these changes and keep the power creep at a minimum as long as it is fine and interesting to witness and see

[@evanprimeau3810]

MY fear with powercreep, right now, isn't that old characters won't be able to clear: as said in the video, that's a Gacha industry standard, you expect a character to be mostly obsolete in 2-3 years time. MY fear is that content WON'T get harder, and our teams will get progressively stronger and stronger with more gear and stronger supports, better synergies, and powerful new DPS with incredibly intricate kits.... and we'll have nothing fun to do with them. People can have their own opinions on the subject, but personally, I think it's VERY important for games like this to increase in difficulty over time, because stagnation in a game that has an Auto Battle System is a slow and steady death. Making new teams becomes a lot less fun when my current E0 S0 5*s can already autobattle the MoC.

[@deftabyss280]

Powercreep is always inevitable in these type of games. As long as old characters can still clear the content i dont mind it as much. I think HSR is doing a good job with balance and as smack said about new relic sets and other small changes, so i think HSR powercreep is inevitable, but its not as bad as you think just making your favorite character not as OP as before

[@Goujiki]

You know what game doesn't suffer from severe powercreep? *GASP* Genshin Impact

[@afhamsaleem7524]

@@GoujikiHave fun using your well built characters in end game… oh wait you have none so go collect some berries

[@Goujiki]

@@afhamsaleem7524 its literally just MoC in HSR that is difficult bro, Swarm Disaster is like a combat event and you can win with luck on blessings/curios You have not refuted my point either, you're just being a bitch like I knew you would be.

[@dave1346]

​​@@Goujikidon't forget to do daily abyss to find fun on this game outside of run into a empty map and kill Vivianne for the 383726523 time to get hard meta feeling

[@MalixFarwin]

I personally dont think we have any cause for concern just yet. I had this discussion with a friend of mines. I think the issue is just that the support units we currently have just support the strongest units too well. For example when hanya drops i fully expect dan heng il to climb just like i am expecting jing yurn to climb with Topaz and as we get more Units that synergize with Erudition more. Right now its just a Destruction meta because they do well with little.

[@bigfootisreal_]

I honestly don't care about powercreep in a single player game. As long as the character I invested time in can deal with the hardest content available then that's all that matters to me. Meta slaves need to realise that following the "meta" in a gacha game will require them to dry their bank account.

[@revivemefellas9637]

what is blud WAFFLING about. the point of powercreep is to make the old units redundant and complete utter garbage, just like honkai impact 3rd lmfao

[@bigfootisreal_]

@@revivemefellas9637 it's a single players game you goof. They are not nerfing the older units not did they increase the game's difficulty. They are just as viable as they were before and after a stronger unit is released. That doesn't make them "garbage". The whole point of powercreep is make the new unit seem MORE viable, which is something only meta slaves cares about.

[@RaeNicole17]

Coming from fighting games as my primary genre you get used to power creep and fluctuating tier list and meta characters. The most important thing I learn is the the character is only as good as the player piloting them. In gacha you can pretty much use the system to keep a unit performing well, clear times might vary but every has to determine their purpose. Weather it’s to prove your character can clear content for long term or adjust characters for content both sides are valid. You can never powercreep game knowledge and execution.

[@DOGEELLL]

Fighting games does have meta lists and some picks are better than other but there is massive room for skill unlike turn based rpg or other casual genres Thats what make fighting games so good imo if it wasnt as hard in execution/ skill it would be worse

[@swifty3290]

I don't own JL and IL in my main account but im doing fine idk about people. Im satisfied enough to my blade and clara performance both of them can tackle all of the current content without problem and i feel like this game is not really like that hard to make me worry about meta and powercreep stuff but i think hoyo did pretty okay job to balancing this game SO FAR.

[@Borovski213]

We’re less than a year into the game. Powercreep isnt that bad yet. We just dont a standard set for the DPS. Once older characters start to struggle against the current content, that is when we should worry. For similar comparison, just think of Blade Dan IL and Jingliu as Xiao Ganyu and Hu Tao in Genshin being released back to back to back then subsided. Until now, they are more than enough in abyss. I doubt HYV will adapt major powercreep into HSR

[@danielmee3938]

As long as you can clear all the content with the characters you enjoy playing then I don't see it as a problem. Issues start arsing when you look like an idiot because you didn't pull for a certain character to clear content. The fact that it was basically impossible to clear MoC 10 before Fu Xuan banner if you didn't pull for Luocha is sad and the fact that they released an entire game mode and SU path based around DHIL is concerning. If we have characters with cool mechanics that are released alongside content that compliments those mechanics then that's fine but having content released that basically requires you to pull on a banner is sad.

[@alisulaiman_ft8772]

I believe in hoyoverse’s ability to balance things up and make older characters relevant again. Genshin has shown this multiple times with Keqing, Albedo (though not the best execution), Ganyu, etc

[@darkflames9]

The issue with power creeping in this game is that each character takes so much time and resource to build up. If it were easy to pull up a new character and build them to lets say 80% functionality in like a week or 2, then it wouldn't be so concerning; it would become more like a waifu collection game and you pull out a unit when you feel like it. But characters take so much investment in Hoyo games that this isn't possible. Grinding out trace materials for maxing your skills would take you weeks in resin alone, and those are your guaranteed stat upgrades. You also need level and lightcone exp which is grinded separately and hopefully you have a compatible lightcone for them. Lastly, the elephant in the room: relics. It can take you MONTHS to grind out decent relics. Still don't have a quantum set that isn't half garbage myself. And if they release another relic set that is an indirect buff, oops, guess you gotta start all over. Then you take all the effort and do it again 3 times for your other teammates, 7 if you want to clear the abyss. Also, even many of these "indirect buffs" through releasing supports is super resource intensive as well. If it's a 4 star, you're not guaranteed to get it at all. Not only that, 4* usually have a lot of their power locked through dupes. I really hope we don't get to the realm where new 4*s are E6 or bust becomes the norm.

[@DOGEELLL]

The rng is the reason i dont wanna start HSR i hate going against too much rng it frustate me

[@valeriucb6497]

Currently leaked : Hanabi , 5 star quantum harmony character that can regenerate skill points with her ult up to a maximum of 7 (2 temporary extra skill points if you're capped) , and her skill is similar to bronya's too where she advances an ally's action forward and boosts their damage... One of my favorite teams rn to run is mono quantum with SW , Seele , Fu Xuan and either Lynx or any buffer that matches the weakness of the enemies I'm going against (not mono quantum anymore there but ehhh xd) And hanabi would be insane there , I think Dan Heng IL would benefit the most though...even though I don't have him.

[@rdr.erased]

I enjoy meta to make my favorite character be the best as he can. And after I pick a character I like I try to pick support characters, since most of them will be good with more ammount of comps. Other than that Im pretty sure we will continue to do content with characters we like, even tho they will not be the best (specially dps ones)

[@QuietCrow009]

Glad I'm not a meta slave, because I for one have had 0 issues with MoC and swarm with the teams i've built. Which is great because sometimes a non-standard playstyle, in my case DoT, would definitely be too niche. Yet I have no issues clearing the content, even when my teams aren't the most effective. Almost every support is viable, and can be played at the highest level, without needing the shiny new DPS.

[@jackjohnson8305]

Ultimately it doesn't matter if old characters are getting powercrept cuz the game is piss easy anyway, just build your characters well and setup a good team comp and you're golden, its just like Genshin in that regard.

[@kliphord123X]

yes and no but unlike genshin with different gameplay of course where you could literally move aorund in combat hsr is bit strict on building multiple teams and sets up and needs the right relics to thrive sure you can sya its "piss easy' but uh yeah

[@jackjohnson8305]

@@kliphord123X Sure but if we're talking powercreep it literally doesn't matter, im still clapping cheeks in the Abyss with my Diluc and he's been powercrept to hell in Genshin, im also clapping cheeks with Selee in MoC and she's been powercrept as well In the end the topic of powercreep is unimportant in these games as the content can be cleared with what you got and its a PvE game so its all good.

[@sms-g3r]

Genshin isnt built to be focusing on endgame unlike hsr does. Nor it requires high combat skills like other open world combat game does. For me, power creep dont matter until past units are unable toclear endgame contents. For now, even Herta can clear Moc10

[@amritsundarka2112]

​@@sms-g3rbro why don't u try clearing abyss or the 9 legends of fontaine with random character?

[@amritsundarka2112]

​@@sms-g3rI get it genshin is easy if you understand it's mechanics but doing that takes time if you are a 3 year player like me you won't feel a thing as you are playing this for 3 year but I don't know if you can understand lol

[@cedricjonesjr6140]

I agree with everything you said 100% like we already have enemies who take Skill points away in the Phantalia boss and they can easily just make that like a regular mob or make it a elite enemys gimmick.

[@RePhantomz]

Power creep only matter when we got pvp. As long as hsr has no pvp then power creep will never be an issue considering pity carried over to new banner.

[@Zecuto]

Power creep is not bad in itself. What matters is how the game handles it. If, for example, units that are falling behind get indirect buffs (through relics that benefit them more than others or through enemy design favoring them), that keep them at least viable, I think it's okay.

[@PauloRPGGamer]

General Jing Yuan: Don’t be afraid of a power creep thing. Trust the Lighning Lord

[@battleaxe7074]

The only power creep I’m worried about is supports cause eventually we are gonna get a limited 5* that straight up replaces bronya or tingyun

[@HellBent_]

I think with supports it's not so bad, cause even if a direct upgrade is released it doesn't make the old one obsolete. Hell you can just use both, I for one wouldn't complain about having a second Bronya

[@ddreamer789]

Thank you for bringin this up. This is indeed a problem.

[@Mr.MasterOfTheMonsters]

I just hope they start adding more variety. In genshin you can make dumb or crazy teams that work. Baizhu DPS, Raiden support, Physical Ayaya, etc. Here in Honkai SR characters are mostly hyperfixated on a single skill and the rest of the kit just buffs that skill. They have very limited playstyle. If this stays the same, we will have at some point an Al-Haiqing & Yanfei/Klee situation every patch. More characters like Fu-Xuan or Lighcones like "Time Waits for No One" is what I'd like to see.

[@nequitia4665]

me with Kafka chilling bcs that isn't her true form yet while the other character like Blade, Jing yuan, Dhil, and JIng liu already on his pinnacle or near lol

[@crimsondemon6231]

I have DHIL with S1 as F2P, I'm not really worried about powercreep and going to pull for character who actually looks cool like Argenti

[@Hhhh22222-w]

DW DHIL gets a huge power boost when Hanya releases and even more when Hanabi releases, Dhil rn still does the most damage but his SP drain makes him less efficient, that is his only weakness, Hanya and Hanabi will make his SP drain a strength. Argenti could be broken, especially with the new relic sets for him, he is also the only character who has an enhanced ultimate, all he needs is energy and atk

[@drakebitmoji6291]

i mean tbh yes it's some form of powercreep but just because jingliu and dan IL are better than seele that doesn't make her bad. She's still a VERY good dps and you WILL be able to clear moc 10 easily with enough investment. Same with jing yuan, just because it's not meta doesn't mean it's necessarily bad and from my experience the game hasn't gotten harder and im clearing with sushang or yanqing( i just pulled jingliu so no more yanqing very tragic)on one side and my DOT team on the other. We have crazy supports that make most characters really good.

[@ahmedmubarak751]

If you were a new player and you had an option between jingliu or seele , which would you go for ? Like I understand that powercreep isn't bad as long as any character can clear content but new characters being powerful makes rolling for older ones absolutely unnecessary.

[@drakebitmoji6291]

@@ahmedmubarak751 I get your point, but most people roll for characters they like including me ,although i wouldn't roll for a garbage character that i really like, and if you're pulling specifically for meta then yes pulling for older characters is pointless but if you're pulling because you like the character and said character is good but maybe not the best then you have that option.

[@drakebitmoji6291]

@@ahmedmubarak751 and to answer your question, i like jingliu more so im not gonna use your analogy but i rolled for kafka because i love her character and i didn't care about dan heng IL, i literally didn't do a single pull on his banner because i just didn't really care even though he is busted.

[@ahmedmubarak751]

@@drakebitmoji6291 That's a given , anyone who likes a certain character will roll for them regardless of how good or bad they are . I'm mainly talking about those who care about getting the most efficient characters as a new player .

[@drakebitmoji6291]

@@ahmedmubarak751 you right

[@wingszerodrive]

For me I see the power creep well the dmg people talk but for me it’s how easy it becoming for newer dps to do big dmg with barely no set backs from seele to jing Juan to jinglu and dhil coping that dream I had of the follow up set

[@silverfortune2205]

Lets not equate Hunt characters to be obsolete until Topaz comes out. The last 3 patches (including this one) were Destruction characters so them being really strong does make sense (although IL was the start of someone being too good in their role imo). That said the characters I wanted just happen to be Destruction (Blade and Jingliu) so I guess I'm on team Destruction. Erudition is where I start to worry tho. Because they are meant to excel in big mobs of enemies and Destruction are a great middle ground of handling 3 enemies at a time normally. Argenti coming out is hopefully great for those who want him. I'm expecting full damage on all enemies like Jing Yuan with hopefully good modifiers

[@thornszk]

Atleast 1yr shelf-life is good enough. Within that time anyone could have secured 180pulls for a new dps. I think the reason they are afraid to make real hard challenges is that, life is already hard.

[@gloriaborger7265]

Haters call jing liu mid liu can you believe that

[@utkarsh1551]

Any Person who spends money in this game should not give Opinion on this matter anyway becz power creeping only concerns f2p players, You can't understand.

[@BlAdeZ197]

They do the balancing really well in Honkai Impact too, the Abyss and the Elysian Realm keeps changing and sometimes a usually bad unit is good because of the buffs provided in the current cycle or the bosses you have to face But other cycles can also be bad for the characters that are the usually strongest in the game. It's genius tbh

[@OnlySSSTuna]

It definitely is if they plan to release harder content in the future. The newer dps and support have like the easiest and most braindrad kits. You literally can't mess up with them. The only reason this isn't an issue in genshin is simply because abyss is a joke.

[@chelik761]

It is really not fair and unbalanced when DHIL pays high cost for high damage, meanwhile JL is just better and more comfortable and this is after only 1 patch, this is so cringe. Not to mention that seele struggles a bit nowadays and really less fun to play compared to newer characters, even if she is the character that i like. New characters more comfortable = more enjoyable

[@IdeasAreBulletproof]

Seele is a lot Harder to Build then even Blade Kafka and DHIL. Let alone Jingliu.

[@traiwooten3711]

This needs to blow up video was great.

[@NaruColas]

great takes man. Power creep truly is something they ned to address

[@Igraphi7335]

If you play of pokemons then you know how it works. That is happened when you skip the banners. People hunt to create legendary team. But ,if you not skip and hunt of per patch even is not unique the power of level is stability. And makes more synergies for each other units.

[@davidbai3543]

We just don’t have any content that requires different characters of different niches. In other games they have varied dungeons that require a specific unit or element to overcome, but this game you just slap 1 good dps and a few supports and u auto all content.

[@warmmafura]

I don’t own either DHIL nor JL If I don’t own them, I won’t feel the so call power creep I pull for units I love, which is topaz and then skip the whole 1.5 to save up

[@sdrthom3520]

i feel the hole power creep problem is in reality a bronya problem cause here 's whats up. Seele needs to one shot=bronya, blade needs speed cause then he loses tankiness dmg answer=bronya, jingyuan needs to spam to 10 stacks=bronya, jingliu is perma in enhanced state=bronya, only kafka isnt in need of her and guess what is her place in the tierlist. Its not that the dps itself powercreeps but since bronya excludes the speed element you can invest in WAY more dmg, oh look at that blade scales with hp and easier stat, jingliu gets 50 crit rate for free,jingyuan can focus on his raw atk. So in reality all dps function almost the same BUT some need way more precise stats then others and that equals to harder invesment and also the SP economy you mentioned

[@kl7655]

I think the problem is exacerbated because of the sudden huge jump in power. The release of Blade and Kafka were rather muted because they did not heavily deviate from existing power levels. DHIL and JL however, were too far off the power scale which makes the power creep very jarring. While power creep shouldn't really matter in a game with no multiplayer elements, from a spending perspective it feels horrible having character after character being outclassed every patch. I used to pull for everything but now I am going to settle for pulling characters who can support my favorite ones better.

[@Shami-Shambles]

Honestly i think its because its early days. Was Similar for genshin. However eventually once enough characters got released for genshin to the point where you had multiple characters fitting a select few roles you now have an option to use even if its not the premier option. Give it a year and more characters and eventually i think honkai will be in that place (tbh i think they are already there but most people will view investing in characters like qing que and herta a waste in the long run which is probably why it seems like power creep is here.) Also with MoC it doesnt matter if you finish with 1 cycle before the 3 star thresh hold or 0 cycle the whole stage. You still get 3 stars either way. Edit: also as Smack said just gotta wait for more units to be released with more unique kits, specifically supports. One unit in the future might buff Jing Yuan or Yan Qing to the point that in tandem they become Z tier pairings.

[@MihaiAz]

Great video Smack! You covered everything and on point. Since you can get 30 stars in MoC and clear Swarm 5 on some paths with Seele, Yanqing, Himeko, Jing Yuan, Kafka, Blade, E6 Sushang, E4 QQ or Clara as your dps (I don't know about E6 Serval but I think it's possible), why bother caring about who's the best DPS? Let's say you want to be big and strong and show off? Who cares, and who even notices? At the moment, the way the game is currently, DHIL or Jingyliu will not help you get more than you can allready obtain. If you want to change the difficulty to easy mode... Luocha and Fu Xuan are the ones that can make things easy.

[@Masamune-XIII]

As long as the content doesn't get so hard where you HAVE to have some new unit to clear it, I'm fine with some power creep. I expect the difficulty to increase a little bit of course, but as long as it's not unreasonable. I'll continue to just pull who I like & not for meta, & if I can still have fun & clear all the content of the game, it honestly doesn't matter one bit to me how much future characters power creep the old ones.

[@theelitesquad9650]

For me personally its not just about meta or my character getting powercrept but how hsr works. It has end game content and fighting is a big part of game. As a f2p this makes me a bit mindful as yo who to pull for as i can only pull every couple patches and more so if i lose my 50/50 so i definitely would want to more mindful of who i an pulling as i most probably will never get signature lightcone and also any eidolons. Just a f2p perspective

[@Akira_K440]

always speaking facts‼Smack never misses when it comes to speaking the undeniable truth. P R E A C H brotha

[@Human_Decoy]

The issue isn't now it's in 12 months from now when you are losing your 50/50 to a Yanqing or Bialu as a new player and the new 4 star characters are better. Hoyo does a great job but it's not perfect.

[@IdeasAreBulletproof]

By then 4* Characters should be a lot better then Seele

[@ToothpickSamurai]

Power Creep will only ever matter if the power requirement to clear content goes up for that power creep and as such pushing the crept units out.

[@Ghalion666]

Jing Liu is the first dps I got since Seele. Hoyo now has my permission to stop power creeping =p

[@HydraneousHadokenPent-Striker]

Ultimately its a PvE game, as long as it doesn't affect being able to complete limited version events it wont matter how much it powercreeps.

[@unicumaw]

The main reason why new charecters stronger than old, they make start easy for new players. Helps them reach 30* mirror much faster, that help longer lives game.

[@fedrecedriz6868]

I have 2 teams that can easily clear MoC. Mono Quantum and Jingliu team. I don't "need" to pull for a new dps anymore cuz Jingliu is still strong against non ice weak enemies. If these 2 teams can't clear future MoC or game modes, then that would be a problem. But for now, I don't have to worry about that, and I can comfortably pull whoever I want.

[@zyfryth]

IMO power creep will always be an issue, since it is a turn-based game, with very little rng, as far as fighting mechanics is concerned. Which means that outside of powercreeping it is very difficult to keep the game fresh, so it is unavoidable imo... At the end of the day, this game is a stat check, from a static perspective. For example in genshin you can skewer the scale a bit, by dodging, utilizing i-frames, also swapping units, if you are about to die. So you can control not only if you get damaged, but also WHO is getting damaged. That is not the case in honkai. Sure there are strategy elements, but at the end of the day it is matching 2 numbers against each other...