Is Prayer Allowed at Public School? | Engel v. Vitale

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In the third episode of Supreme Court Briefs, Mr. Beat examines the first of many Supreme Court cases dealing with the separation of church and state- Engel v. Vitale.
The state board of education said that students were to open each day with a nondenominational prayer. Students across New York were to say: “Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers and our Country.” Now, before some of you freak out, just calm down. Alright? CALM DOWN. The prayer was voluntary. It was purely promoted as a tool for character development. Now, I say voluntary, but if parents did not want their kids saying the prayer, they did have to take action and it was kind of a pain in the butt.
Well in July 1958, the Board of Education of Union Free School District Number 9, decided to have its students say the prayer. Students could opt out with their parent’s signature. However, a group of families complained that the prayer went against their religious beliefs. With the help of different organizations, the families decided to fight the prayer in court. Five parents, three Jewish and two who weren’t big on organized religion, sued the state school board President, William Vitale, on behalf of their children. They argued that the prayer violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, which should be applied because of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Basically, it was a separation of church and state issue. Alphabetically, the first parent listed as a plaintiff was Steven Engel, so he ended up being the one who got all the attention. Engel later recalled how his kids were bullied at school for the lawsuit, and other families received obscene letters and phone calls in the middle of the night.
Vitale and the school board argued that they did not establish one particular religion with the prayer, nor did they force students to say the prayer. They also brought up that the prayer simply reflected the country’s religious heritage.
In the state court system, Engel and his fellow plaintiffs had absolutely no success. In 1959, they lost their case before the Supreme Court of New York. The next year, they lost before the Appellate Division of the Supreme Court of New York. The year after that, they lost before the Court of Appeals of New York, where Chief Judge Charles Desmond wrote “Not only is this prayer not a violation of the First Amendment (no decision of this or of the United States Supreme Court says or suggests that it is) but a holding that it is such a violation would be in defiance of all American history, and such a holding would destroy a part of the essential foundation of the American governmental structure.” Geez Charles. That was harsh.
Anyway, Engel and company next, of course, appealed to the Supreme Court, where all of a sudden things looked a lot better for them. The case was argued on April 3, 1962. On June 25, the Court ruled 6-1 in Engel and company’s favor. Two of the justices, Felix Frankfurter and Byron White didn’t take part in the decision. The Court said the prayer was unconstitutional. Justice Hugo Black wrote the opinion for the majority, writing “It is neither sacrilegious nor antireligious to say that each separate government in this country should stay out of the business of writing or sanctioning official prayers…” Basically, they agreed with the plaintiffs, determining the prayer broke the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. The one dissenting opinion came from Justice Potter Stewart, who brought up early examples of religion in government, like “In God We Trust” being on coins.
Engel v. Vitale reasserted the importance of the separation between church and state. It basically banned state officials from trying to make prayer an official part of public schools, and it was the first of several cases in which the Court used the establishment clause to ban religious activities in public schools. The decision remains controversial to this day.

[@iammrbeat]

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[@Davey-TheDJ]

Mr Beat if I could afford ur book I'd buy a copy

[@wolfgirlinfinity9412]

idk how many times I have to say this, but if you need a parents signature to opt out of something, it isn't voluntary.

[@josephstalin8337]

How is it not?

[@PerAsperaAdAstra27]

Joseph Stalin because you don’t have a choice to decide for yourself

[@jordigutierrez4161]

@Jungjin Kim that's illegal

[@archdruidbookwalter951]

​@@josephstalin8337 When something is voluntary, if you don't want to do it, you can freely walk away with no barrier to stop you. But here, you need your parents' permission not to pray. If you don't want to pray, but your parents want you to pray, you're forced to pray. That's what makes it not voluntary, that barrier that prevents you from choosing not to do it.

[@mst2628]

Thank you!!

[@DugrozReports]

Note that this decision didn't "ban" prayer in public school, but rather banned a prescribed or scripted prayer prompted by the school.

[@trangvophuong6919]

Indeed. Students still have the right to pray silently in public schools. As long as it does not disrupt other things, and isn't required by public schools.

[@DugrozReports]

@@trangvophuong6919 I would imagine they can ever pray aloud. (if not distracitng)

[@actanonverba3041]

Later Supreme Court cases prohibited basically all religious expression in public schools, with the exception of maybe silent prayer by students.

[@machonsote918]

@@actanonverba3041 I'd like to learn some more about those. Can you cite one or more cases, please?

[@major_kukri2430]

​@@actanonverba3041citation needed

[@Quinntus79]

Is prayer allowed in public school? Short answer: yes. Long answer: as long as the prayer isn’t lead by a public official and not disruptive of the learning environment, yes.

[@bb38313]

Matthew 6:6 (NLT) But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father in private. Then your Father, who sees everything, will reward you

[@mattatack2the25]

@@bb38313 Matthew 18:19-20 "Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

[@calvinsmith6681]

Exhibits A and B of why the Bible or any religious text should not be the basis for public policy in America. It can't even keep itself straight

[@HelloWorld-xf2ks]

The school shouldn't entice its students to pray, however if STUDENTS want to pray on their own spare time that is perfectly fine. The supreme court was right on this one.

[@Yzzo1]

@HettGutt "JeWS CouLDn'T HaVE tHaT, ThOugH", school prayer shouldn't be allowed what so ever. It's not the Public School's job to tell me to pray at the beginning of school.

[@Yzzo1]

@HettGutt Everyone? M.L.K. Jr. certainly was fine with school prayer. He endorsed the court's ruling against school prayer.

[@asnekboi7232]

HettGutt anti-Semit

[@deeveevideos]

@@Yzzo1 boy howdy you should see what the schools do now days. I'm from the future and you can't tell people if they are female or male.

[@walterseifert1841]

@@Yzzo1 you should go to an atheist school where you will never need to pray

[@barbaradarnell.3802]

Saying a prayer in school is teaching how to pray.that is the responsibility of parents,not of public schools

[@Quinntus79]

Barbara Darnell. I agree. Pretty sure many of the Protestant parents in my home state would be angry if I, a Catholic, taught kids to pray the Rosary.

[@chocolatewatermelon2832]

@Sebastian Guevara but what if the students aren’t religious or follow another religion

[@Quinntus79]

@Sebastian Guevara Never said there was a problem with praying in school. The issue is whether a public official like a teacher should lead children in school prayer. Having a teacher lead the prayer could be seen as a public endorsement of religion which violates the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment.

[@brialapoint2608]

Christians like to inject their nonsense everywhere

[@murielmoon2147]

At 2:55 wouldn't it be in ruled in Engel's favor?

[@iammrbeat]

Yep, I mixed it up there. The Court ruled in Engel's favor. Thanks for catching that.

[@yeetman3685]

That’s what I was about to say

[@shedeur]

mhmm

[@comettamer]

I noticed that too

[@machonsote918]

It confused me, too, but after a while I realized it was a "typo".

[@EmpressMermaid]

I bet all these parents who want to bring back school prayer would reconsider if it was presented as "how do you feel about agents of the government telling your children when and how to pray?"

[@samu5702]

Yet the same thing happens when the government forces schools to teach evolutionism which is inherently secular

[@javimiami92]

@@samu5702 yeah but its not made up horse shit.

[@samu5702]

@@javimiami92 we can argue about the validity of creationism vs evolutionism all day, but that’s not the point I’m making

[@hosti4051]

@@samu5702 the US Supreme Court ruled on Epperson v. Arkansas, "allowing the teaching of creation, while disallowing the teaching of evolution, advanced a religion, and therefore violated the Establishment Clause of the constitution." The whole point of religions is that they are based on faith and not evidence. Science should only be teaching evidence based subjects- not faith based ones.

[@samu5702]

@@hosti4051 thanks for the info! I definitely don’t think creationism should be taught in schools because it forwards a religion, but I also think evolution is inherently flawed and shouldn’t be taught because of many many inconsistencies with it

[@fabiangonzalez6853]

I went to elementary school in South Georgia. Before we went to lunch, would say a little pray that went like this, “God is great, God is good, let us thank him for our food. By his hand, we are feed, thank you lord our daily bread.”

[@yaboi7034]

Probably private? Public schools don’t do that.

[@fabiangonzalez6853]

@@yaboi7034 I went to a public school. They probably don’t do it anymore but back in 2008 they sure did it every day

[@yaboi7034]

@@fabiangonzalez6853 Errr 2008 and 2021 were very similar times. I was thinking you were 60.

[@jamespetitious1311]

@@fabiangonzalez6853 You probably could’ve sued them and won.

[@fabiangonzalez6853]

@@jamespetitious1311 why would I sue? I think it’s beautiful

[@citizen.insane]

I think it's important to note that prayer is very much permitted in public schools today, just not official endorsed by any of the teachers or admins. I know at many public schools they hold a moment of silence each day, and special exceptions are made for Muslims wishing to pray regularly through the day. Basically, a kid can lead a prayer group at school every day. It's just that a teacher can't be leading that group. And I think this is the best policy. Prayer and religion has certainly been a historical tradition in the US, and freedom of religion is our fundamental right. But I think you have to recognize that extends to freedom FROM religion. I very much wish to see an entirely secular American government because fostering diversity among the American community is one of our greatest assets. It's too bad many religious conservatives have lost sight of the benefits of the separation of church and state.

[@iammrbeat]

Great comment and thanks for watching

[@wilhelmkiev1223]

In New York they force kids to turn their shirts inside out if they promote religion. I also got suspended for creating a non official christian club ( Just a group of friends who prayed after lunch)

[@garynaccarto8636]

As far as prayer in public school goes it's not like anyone can tell you not to pray esp when you have free time and it's not interupting class however public school staff are not allowed to lead prayer.

[@Lyle-xc9pg]

Now what the hell does that have to do about destroying the white community of this country? "fostering diversity". Idiot

[@oneironaut420]

Lyle How is the white community being destroyed and what does that have to with the fact that prayer is allowed in school?

[@msshannonigans]

2:52 The Court ruled in favour of ENGEL, not in favour of Vitale, et al.

[@dianaontiveros9319]

Yes I think prayer is very important something happens at school's that's our first thing we do is we call upon God and pray let my child be okay. We all need God in our life.

[@abbey6340]

Shannon Lynn I WAS SO CONFUSED THANK U

[@dianaontiveros9319]

JESUS LOVE'S YOU😊

[@rc7625]

@@dianaontiveros9319 Fuck you, clown. 😘

[@willhorowitz8806]

@@dianaontiveros9319 it is called the separation of church and state.

[@carriepaul958]

You stated the verdict was in favor of "Vitale and Company's favor" but it was Engle who would then win if the case was ruled unconstitutional at the Supreme Court level

[@matthewmcwane9569]

That's what I was wondering too. It might have been a mistake within the video.

[@iammrbeat]

I made a mistake and mixed up the names. I corrected it in the description and pinned a comment. Thanks for brining this to my attention. I can't believe it took me 3 years to realize it. :)

[@rachellecalabrese4447]

Growing up I always heard that “they made prayer illegal in schools” 🤦‍♀️so off lol

[@DaInvisibleNinja]

@GREATBEAR MAMA Same, my Catholic school made it seem like you'd get in deep shit just for praying at a public school.

[@charlesdoyle3630]

They did not. Just made it where cannot be lead by or organized by faculty

[@kerred]

now I'm more curious about how exactly it develops character. and what the alternatives are.

[@iammrbeat]

+Derrek McNab I know, right? That puzzled me a bit, too.

[@mybumbrash]

Murica thats why.

[@ahouyearno]

>>now I'm more curious about how exactly it develops character The answer is in the video. Given the fact that these parents got obscene calls in the middle of the night and kids were bullied for it, it evidently doesn't.

[@AndrewVaughanOfficial]

Prayer can help in some ways. For instance if you’re like, “I should thank God for my blessings,” it helps you reinforce gratitude and positivity which can improve mood and relationships. Repetitive prayer, like the one in this case, has some benefits. Repetition is good for strengthening beliefs, values, and traditions, but it’s a state school, so yeah, separation of church and state applies.

[@flybeep1661]

@@AndrewVaughanOfficial So wrong, so so wrong. That's called indoctrination.

[@adrinicole9945]

my history teacher assigned a different video and it was boring so I came here to do my hw for her. thank you for all that you do in these videos I actually learn things for the ap gov exam.

[@nobruh3074]

Thank you very much!! This helped me on my project very much and was very easy to understand!! You’re very good at explaining things.

[@iammrbeat]

Thanks for the kind words and for watching! :D

[@milesjolly6173]

Prayer in schools should be voluntary. No one should be forced to pray or prevented from praying.

[@SiVlog1989]

As far as I'm concerned, if people have genuine religious beliefs then that is fine for the most part, however, the line is crossed when people try to force their views on others

[@clark5137]

These videos are going to single handedly get me through AP gov

[@AndrewKuehler]

I love your videos. Very informative and fun at the same time. Keep it up!

[@iammrbeat]

Thanks so much Andrew!

[@siamiam]

this was a supreme video

[@iammrbeat]

and that was a supreme comment

[@lombremic4840]

You are a supreme gentleman.

[@danplaysyt5893]

It's more about it being mandatory vs. voluntary rather than the prayer itself. If they were forced to do it, that's where I draw the line.

[@davidrudolph2856]

Thanks for the great vid!!! I'm glad this case is getting attention, as I agree with the US Supreme Courts decision. Keep up the amazing content as usual. Feel free to reply

[@iammrbeat]

Thanks David! I think most people on here agree with you.

[@devanshyadav902]

Perfect voice with perfect editing

[@nathansimpson5721]

Praying in public school is fine as long as the school didn't tell the students to pray. I can promise every time a test hits a desk in high school, someone is praying somewhere.

[@mistake1197]

Just liking to increase engagement. I already know this is going to be a good one :)

[@abrahamlincoln5185]

Oh you want your kid to pray in school? May I introduce to you private religious schools and the homeschool option.

[@rn6312]

For a second I thought the title said PragerU. Boy would that be a dark day if it was in schools across the nation.

[@allyourcode]

Can you explain why justices didn't vote? Were they ethically bound to recuse themselves? Or were they undecided? Or did they catch a cold? The public wants answers, Mr. Beat!

[@Yzzo1]

they probably felt they were going to be biased about their decision.

[@nicolajrath1570]

Frankfurter had a stroke so he couldn't be there (he retired later that year) and White's confirmation hearing was ongoing when it started so he would have joing in the middle of the arguments and he thought it would be better if he sat that one out, rather than joining in the middle of it or having them start over

[@juanseberino5456]

Does Engel v. VItale apply to Indian Reservation land schools that receive US government funding? For example I worked at a Preschool (3, 4 year olds) that received Head Start funding; some teachers created a prayer to be recited before breakfast/lunch.

[@Locojjona]

GREAT VIDEO!!!!!!!!

[@iammrbeat]

Thanks friend!

[@Locojjona]

you welcome

[@trollolololololol2361]

@@Locojjona Hi

[@alexc2649]

I went to school to school district no 9 (herricks) . some of my teachers were there during the lawsuit.

[@lukesmith1818]

JFK had a great response about this. The Bible advocates against public prayer as it is usually used for grandstanding and pride. Strange advocates for it ignore this

[@Godless_Doc]

I can’t help but to roll my eyes whenever I hear in God we trust as an argument.

[@Godless_Doc]

Reva Is The Diva I don’t care if it is or not. I’m saying that it’s a silly argument.

[@aquilescastro1794]

@@revakeintz2255 get rekt noob

[@Westportlad]

In Ireland, where I'm from; primary school children (Ages 4 - 12) are strongly encouraged (basically mandatory) to pray in class. Our pry schedule was 1 at the beginning of the day, 1 before and after lunch and one before the end of school. The only person that didn't pray in class was a born-again christian. From the age of ~11 I found the prayers unnecessary because I lost my faith. But I did the prayers anyway because I didn't want the teacher to go ham on me. Lately in Ireland, there has been a progressive streak because of what the Catholic Church and it's institutions have done. (Child sex abuse cover up, Mother & Baby Home burial ground in Tuam and The Magdalene laundries). This allowed us to pass a referendum on gay marriage and more because the church no longer can really influence the government. I'm really glad you made this video Mr. Beat and see things from a different perspective. It's really interesting how separation of church from state was there since the founding of the US. it's only now in the last 20 to 25 years in Ireland that the separation of church and state has become the popular conscious in Ireland.

[@iammrbeat]

Fascinating. So that was in a public school or Catholic school? I mean, I realize the close link, but that is so surprising if it was a public school.

[@Westportlad]

Mr. Beat It was your bog standard public school, 99% of which are Catholic.

[@flyingrat492]

In scotland it is much the same, one of my funniest (looking back on it i was at the time mortified) memories from school was getting yelled at by a teacher and called out infront of my whole year of about 150 people because i didnt like the wafers they used for first communion practice and didnt want to eat them. prayer time was a thing up until i left high school (however most teachers didnt bother past 1st year) and there was a lot of pressure to pray in that time. probably the most infuriating thing to occur was a chemistry teacher who by all accounts was very good at her job, was barred from promotion due to being gay, despite the fact she was still religious. Catholic schools are a sham

[@eligrantthomas]

Very educational thank you nitvh

[@peterdavy6110]

This is the great irony of the US constitution. The US has separation of church and state and religion seems to be a massive issue in the US. The UK has two official State churches (the Church of England & the Church of Scotland - all the others are only permitted because Parliament says so) and nobody thinks twice about it. Odd.

[@forgetful9845]

They dont care about the existence of a state with religion intertwined. Different beliefs.

[@Quinntus79]

Just out of curiosity, are Catholics still banned from being members of the House of Lords?

[@WizardToby]

Silent prayer should be allowed but not mandatory group prayer said aloud like it was before.

[@iammrbeat]

+WizardMatt That sounds reasonable

[@samuelrodick6326]

I live in New York and I had a principal with the last name vitale

[@DCJNewsMedia]

Thanks

[@aakashagrawal3795]

Why is “in go we trust” (US Motto) or “under god” (pledge of Allegiance) still considered not a violation of the establishment clause since they do acknowledge the existence of a higher being even though it might be non denominational. Wouldn’t the dissenting opinion be in a way crossing it self out?

[@skillganon606]

The motto of the USA is E Pluribis Unum, translated to English it means From Many One. And yes both of those that you mentioned should be considered crossing the line.

[@johnstuartson2379]

I just saw some evangelical propaganda that said that students having voluntary private prayer was unconstitutional. Its crazy how they twist the truth.

[@ryanschaefer4847]

Interesting thought, but what if the school districts had gone with an "opt in" instead of an "opt out" model?

[@davidbroz-tanner1756]

THANKS CLARANCE

[@speedshoes29]

Isn’t Kennedy v Bremerton more related to this Court Case than Lemon v Kurtzman

[@ashtoncollins868]

Chief Justice: Earl Warren President during this time: John F. Kennedy Argued April 3, 1962 Decided June 25, 1962 Case Duration: 83 days Decision: 6-1 in favor of Engel (Warren, Brennan Jr., Douglas, Harlan, Black, Clark. Stewart for Vitale. Frankfurter, White didn’t vote.)

[@michaelgreen1515]

I wonder why the others abstained?

[@FuzDoesStuff]

They should show this to Ryan Walters.

[@josestarks8892]

They got it right. Prayer should not be forced.

[@yuiop6611]

@Danielle D. It was forced. And the 1st Amendment clearly states... “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...” The government CANNOT have a law forcing prayer. Do it on your own time.

[@naifalbaihed1230]

@Danielle D you have to opt-out. It's should be opt-in. Also the school comments suggested that people who don't pray are lesser Americans.

[@DerWaidmann_]

So, was this technically overturned this last season?

[@nicholasbeddow833]

Hey Mr. Beat. I know you do not want to redo this video, but you get Vitale and Engel mixed up at the end there. You stated that the U.S. sided with "Vitale" and you stated that "Vitale" appealed to the U.S. supreme court. When you meant Engel.

[@andrewjgrimm]

Is there a video about silent prayer?

[@dustinbrite2422]

I am so thankful that this case ruled in favor of engel!

[@aquilescastro1794]

@Danielle D get rekt noob

[@DumpTruckOfH]

@Danielle D no the point is that the school should have no hand in fostering one type of prayer, if students want to say the prayer in their spare time then they're allowed to do so but the school shouldn't interfere in anyway

[@aidanlindell2260]

Danielle D except they needed parental permission NOT to say it. If you need to opt out of something, then that thing is the default option. Making a monotheistic religion the default option is a violation of the establishment clause of the first amendment

[@willyjoerockhead]

Oh...I thought it was only Madlyn Ohair who sued to take out the prayer in school. She later formed the American atheist organization.

[@patricksaxon3983]

My rights was violated in the mid 1970s, at a Texas public school, being required to pray with the rest of the class and hear someone reading from the bible on the intercom speaker. If I would had known my rights, I would had opt out from morning school prayer and hearing some reading from the bible. I was too young to know about this and it was not a prayer of my own religious faith.

[@chadmccoy8032]

Prayer is allowed in school as long as it is not faculty led. Students can form Bible studies if they want. Nobody is going to stop one student from praying for another right smack dab in the middle of the cafeteria. This is one thing people over look.

[@birdstudios978]

I Support: Indecisive

[@gabe3527]

I live in Texas and way back when I was in Elementary, I was praying right before lunch and was told by the Counselor to stop and do it later at home.

[@mr.caretaker6086]

It's funny, I'm English, we have an actual established church, 26 bishops sit in the upper house of our parliament, most of our primary (elementary) schools are church of England named after a saint, we have a school prayer at assembly time (called collective worship) we have a prayer before lunch, crosses in all classes...and we are a pretty secular people only 2million going to church out of 60mill. Yet the USA has no religion in schools and you're pretty much one of the hardcore Christian countries in the world.

[@a54109]

How is it that a judge can not vote?

[@johndemmler7750]

for example judge scalia has stake in Coke-Cola and when a case came up regarding refreshments and would've had affects on Coke a Cola, he opted out

[@cweave5443]

Someone answered this elsewhere in the thread. The answer is that one had a stroke and the other didn't hear all the arguments in the case because he had yet to be confirmed at the start of oral arguments.

[@vallettapetracyneran8587]

And the state of Texas seems set to violate this again as part of Texas SB 1396. Hip hip hurray.

[@lostbladder]

You didn't answer the question in the title there. Is prayer allowed in public school? Yes. It's been decided that students and teachers still have their first amendment on school grounds. You can pray in a school. You just can not make others pray with you and the school (and presumably staff) can not organize it. When and where you can pray as well as whether or not it is or can be disruptive is questionable.

[@loszhor]

What name to have for a judge! Frankfurter!

[@timteichmann6830]

I agree with the supreme Court decision but the single has a point too

[@elizabethtestamark5556]

Marbury vs. Madison

[@iammrbeat]

I have video I made about that case already, but I made it back in 2013, so it definitely needs updated

[@CodaMission]

"Almighty God" That prayer certainly didn't seem non-denominational to a Hindu or a Buddhist. Certainly seems to leave them out.

[@jonsteele4666]

I think kids should be allowed to pray in Public Schools and bring a Bible too School if they feel like it.

[@willhorowitz8806]

It is called separation of church and state. It is okay in private schools, but not public schools.

[@Quinntus79]

@@willhorowitz8806 That’s not quite it. A student is allowed to bring a Bible and pray in public school. The Supreme Court has even established that students can set up a Bible study as an extracurricular activity in public schools. What Engel v. Vitale does is say that a public official (like a teacher or principal) can lead a prayer as that would violate the establishment clause of the 1st amendment.

[@aidanlindell2260]

They can. They just can't be pressured to by a school official

[@harrisonsmack4014]

@@willhorowitz8806 separation of church and state is not having an official state religion and not banning or encouraging any religion and allowing any one to practice their religion so long as practicing their religion does not violate a law

[@malaykapilashrami1210]

Nice

[@michaelafay552]

That does not sound like a nondenominational prayer. What if you are polytheistic or something?

[@jennyknopps1291]

You are correct, it is a protestant prayer.

[@thefreelich4875]

Or an atheist.

[@thefreelich4875]

@@jennyknopps1291 The prayer was unconstitutional, but I wouldn't say it was strictly Protestant. Protestantism is a branch of Christianity, the god and prophets of which were not mentioned in the prayer. It also didn't emphasize faith over works in regards to someone obtaining salvation, the main characteristic separating Protestantism from Catholicism and Christian Orthodoxy.

[@jaidenwbr]

I'd go with Vitale.

[@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770]

0:35 so are the domestics

[@dianaontiveros9319]

🇺🇸🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@JayTee2985]

Thank god I am an atheist.

[@adamdaniel8909]

Just asking...why...?

[@thevolsteadvolstead5942]

I prayed in high school. I joined a Christian athletic organization just so I could get a free lunch once a week. And, of course, I prayed just before every fkn geometry test! 😇😄

[@FuzDoesStuff]

That is fine. As long as the school is not making you do it, it's fine.

[@georgia7114]

Are you Owen Wilson?

[@kolkena]

A baptist minister named Martin Luther King Jr. endorsed this ruling.

[@superbeltman6197]

It was voluntary but if *parents* wow already not voluntary

[@flybeep1661]

"In God we Trust" should also be removed btw. Separation of church and state.....what is there not to get?? And, no the US is NOT a christian country.

[@PokeMaster03]

Of course the us is not a Christian country no country in the world is Christian, Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Also i don't see no problem with the quote in god we trust in coins and dollars bills is not affecting no one unless you're a snowflake sensitive person gets butt hurt over anything.

[@MrJimmy-fl2bn]

When I was in public school I always prayed before a test. We also had a Christian club as well. Although only students where allowed to preach and not the teacher.

[@Davey-TheDJ]

If kids want to pray before school that should be their prerogative if you don't want to you should not have to it's like this whatever floats your boat go for it whatever floats my boat I go for it as long as we don't violate the constitution. However I do believe in the separation of church and state. And these prayers should be voluntarily and not held during class I just you know like I said whatever floats your boat just don't break the Constitution

[@davestrasburg408]

l am firmly against any religion in public schools; religion should be kept out of schools. On the other hand, l do believe that children should learn about the main points of each religion, in a totally neutral manner.

[@toddbluetodd4536]

MISTER BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT

[@srcze]

You guys are aware that 'Engel' means 'Angel' in German, right? Adds some irony to this case. I don't think the decision is controversial at all by the way. It only would be fare if such activity would be really neutral meditation practice like "and now, kids, let's close out eyes and wish all the best to ourselves, our beloved and each other", not some politically-charged chanting.

[@samsteel2643]

Let prayer be developed in home 🏠

[@cl8804]

shouldn't any religious judge recuse themselves?

[@beans00001]

I LOVE THE FIRST AMENDMENT!!!!!!

[@mybumbrash]

Once you run out of interesting american videos to do i reccomend looking abroad. The Uk is a very very old country and has alot of laws and 'un written laws'. The same applies to other commenwealth realms. Such as in australia the Prime minister doesnt offically exist, its not in the constitution so he doesn't offically exist. He exists as the majority party leader.

[@joea.9969]

That prayer isn't nondenominational.Its clearly Protestant.All the children are praying with their hands clearly in a Protestant style of prayer.That is not Catholic or other religions at all.

[@ottovon1183]

They were just asked to say the prayer they could have done the tango while saying it if they wanted

[@strider04]

No that is just how the kids probably knew how to as most northerns are protestants

[@glue6143]

it's probably not a picture of the actual kids lmao

[@damonteforney8076]

This is so relevant to today because Conservatives believe that Church and State are the same even though that’s why the Puritans left England in the First place. Second, is the explanation of Voluntary vs Mandatory. This is an explanation of Prayer in public schools

[@macgp44]

"Is Prayer allowed in public school?" Yes, prayer has always been allowed in public schools. A student can pray during recess, lunch or while making a trip to the bathroom. A student can even pray silently during class. The question Mr. Beat should have asked is "Can a public school make prayer an official part of the school day?" The answer is NO and it doesn't matter whether the prayer is "non-denominational". End of discussion.

[@williamjarrell3541]

You didn't mention that this prayer was written after Jewish groups complained about schools using the Lord's Prayer. The New York State school authorities consulted an interfaith committee of Protestant ministers, Catholic priests, and rabbis to write a prayer that could be used by all three. Not surprising, the prayer was criticized by some Christians because it didn't mention Jesus. Today, an interfaith committee would not only include Christians and Jews but also Moslems.

[@davidwebs111]

Who's this controversial to?

[@PopeLeoXIIIFanAccount]

Jews

[@FuzDoesStuff]

Christians who think they are "Persecuted"

[@fleetadmiralj]

"non-denominational prayer" prayer opens with "Almighty God." Methinks they didn't get the memo on what "non-denominational" means.

[@Therongunner]

I want to take my country's government to court to stop it from using State money and time organizing so-callec national prayer days.

[@DaInvisibleNinja]

Schools having mandatory prayer is a giant waste of time.

[@tompatterson1548]

Weeelllll if it had said "the gods", then it wouldn't have discriminated against people who didn't believe in that god, and then I think it would be constitutional.

[@tompatterson1548]

@Christian O'Connell Vouche, but even christians have more than one god.

[@josephstalin8337]

@@tompatterson1548 christians have one god

[@tompatterson1548]

Joseph Stalin I thought you had god and Jesus, who was his son.

[@bradleyburkholder5188]

I believe prayer should not be forbidden or required in public schools. To tell a person they can’t pray or talk about God in public school is probably unconstitutional.

[@trangvophuong6919]

Schools have the right to regulate student speech on-campus, see Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District. The Supreme Court has ruled that such regulation may not be extended to off-campus speech, except in special circumstances. See Mahanoy Area School District v. B.L. Under Tinker, school officials have the right to regulate and punish students for their speech, if such speech "materially and substantially disrupts the work and discipline of the school." If a student was to start randomly talking about God in a classroom, when such discussion was unrelated to the topic of the class, teachers and staff have the right to punish students for that. But, I do concur that completely preventing any speech about God in schools would probably violate the Constitution. However, if such speech disrupts the classroom, then you may be punished for saying such speech.

[@bradleyburkholder5188]

Thank you for responding to my comment. The Tinker vs Des Moines case is a tough one because it went all the way to the Supreme Court. I have heard stories of students who have gotten in trouble for asking the blessing for their lunch. I believe this unconstitutional.

[@trangvophuong6919]

@@bradleyburkholder5188 I'm not sure. I do know that students are allowed to pray as long as it's not required by the school, and as long as it isn't disruptive to other students.

[@mummyneo7112]

Mr Beat please go back to the Barack Obama song as I wrote a Hillary Clinton song

[@iammrbeat]

+Mummy Neo I really like it

[@mummyneo7112]

Mr. Beat's Social Studies Channel Thank You

[@kmtforchina8916]

I believe the problem was how the prayer was worded out, because that sounds very much like a christian prayer, whille other religions pray differently.

[@patricksaxon3983]

You are correct, it was more of a christian prayer, not a non-denominational prayer. It was favoring christianity and that is not fare to those who are non-christian.

[@Davey-TheDJ]

I firmly believe in the separation of church and state I do not believe the state has any business doing in the church and the church has no business doing in the state!!! If you don't like what I said well guess what you can build a bridge and get over it btw there's no toll to get over it!! Don't you answer your question whether prayers can be loud in School know they should not be allowed not when the whole class has to participate!

[@garynaccarto8636]

I'm not going to reveal my opinion one way or another I'm just playing devils advocate in favor of prayer in school. The following aurguement might sound like a stupid aurguement in favor of prayer in school however the one primary aurgument that could be made for prayer in school is that prayer is an expression of and a way respecting an areas cultural identity.For example I used to do Judo which is a Japanese martial art and even though none of the stuff we did was explicitly religious there were certain ritualized practices that were rooted in Japanese culture (probably also rooted in Zen, Shinto or both) that we would engage in even though most of the the students and even the Sensei as well as the black belts were white males everyone would do it and nobody would make complaints such as "I can't do that it violates my culture."or I can't bow to the photograph of Jigoro Kano on the wall because I am a Christian and I don't want to bow to a graven images because that would somehow violate my religion."In the Dojo those were the established rules and everyone was expected to simply go along with them and not complain.You can also say religion is a form of indoctrination but I'm preaty sure alot of the younger kids who engaged in Judo or Japanese martial arts were told by there parents to do it and that they didn't really have any say in whether or not they did martial arts or not nor was it necessarily the childs idea to do that stuff in the first place they simply did it because an older authority figure mom/dad/gaurdian was telling them to do it.

[@oneironaut420]

Gary Naccarto There is nothing religious about martial arts, they just originated in countries of a different dominant religion. Christianity is the dominant religion in the US but that doesn’t mean that every custom or tradition we practice is religious in nature. In eastern countries, bowing is simply a gesture of respect and greeting. It’s not about revering someone or something as a god. That’s just a projection from a certain Christian perspective. Just as holding up your hand in greeting in western cultures can be seen as a religious gesture in other cultures. You know that it’s not really about religion, they’re just projecting their own point of view onto your actions. At any rate, it’s a far cry from making kids pray in any religious way.