Is Religion Even About Truth?

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- VIDEO NOTES
Ayaan Hirsi Ali recently became a Christian, but for reasons, it seems, that are insensitive to the truth of the Christian religion.
- LINKS
Ayaan's article: unherd.com/2023/11/why-i-am-n...
Richard Dawkins' open letter to Ayaan: richarddawkins.substack.com/p...
Ayaan's appearance at ARC: • PANEL: WHAT IS THE WES...
- TIMESTAMPS
0:00 The fifth horsewoman of new atheism
3:30 Why Ayaan became a Christian
8:53 What is being a Christian really, anyway?
13:41 Am I a Christian too?
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[@CosmicSkeptic]

Go to ground.news/AlexOC to see through media bias. Subscribe through my link this month only for 40% off unlimited access

[@avantsmichael]

The truth hurts like love hurts; until you realize, it’s the Truth’s Love that gifted us The Freedom of a Life to Love or not. Jiddu Krishnamurti “Love is not different than Truth.” “Jesus said to them, “Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.”” ‭‭John‬ ‭8‬:‭58‬ ‭NRSV-CI‬‬ “Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” ‭‭John‬ ‭14‬:‭6‬ ‭NRSV-CI‬‬. “Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love.” ‭‭1 John‬ ‭4‬:‭8‬ ‭NRSV-CI‬‬ “Then Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”” ‭‭John‬ ‭8‬:‭31‬-‭32‬ ‭NRSV-CI‬‬

[@andythomas4998]

No matter what denomination of religion any convert to, it's a loss of reason for all involved... Also, while many *spiritual cultures have similar slogans in "cheat if you can", like serfs of ccp painting pigs black to sell because black pigs are allegedly higher quality, people literally running into eachother or into traffic to utilize frivolous lawsuits to their fraudulent advantage... Individuals are denied being responsible for themselves by waiting for others "*leaders" ... to give them meaning. And this communist garbage they've been passing down from before the days of en ki...

[@avantsmichael]

⁠@@andythomas4998and what exactly is your reason for living if it’s not simply that you live because you Love? What is your reason for living if it’s not because you have reason to Love? If you believe your reason to live is because of a more significant reason than the Truth that is to Love, what is it?

[@IIIJT]

In discussions involving the philosophical perspectives of Kant and Hume, I find myself gravitating more towards Hume, who articulated, "Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and obey them." I interpret this as moral reasoning often being subservient to moral emotions. The rationalist arguments prevalent in psychology, and philosophers like Dan Dennett and Sam Harris, advocates of the new atheist movement, seem to lack insight (even though I consider myself an atheist‐agnostic) into large-scale population dynamics and a certain cultural evolution meme theory, based on my amateur understanding. Ben Shapiro says, "Facts don't care about feelings," I'd also argue that "feelings don't necessarily care about facts." If they did, everyone would readily embrace factual information and perhaps Ben Shapiro would not be practicing kosher or wearing a yamaka. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@specilegg]

Christianity is the testament of life and resurrection of Christ. Completing the messianic promises. This is the testament given in truth, not in fabrication for comfort, who doesn't consider that Jesus said there would be persecutions and no one considered to change that scripture or scriptures to make it more convenient for both Christians and worldy people. No there was a command to repentance, and salvation unto everlasting life. No fabrication would put it's life on the line for a lie like that. The Bible is the testament of the Messiah with the witness to the life and resurrection of Christ. God bless you. Ment to say this within reason. Hope you all come to the knowledge of the truth, God bless you!

[@chrisAclaes]

The way AHS keeps asserting her alignment with “Judeo-Christianity” instead of just “Christian” demonstrates that this is a political identity, not a religious one.

[@pansepot1490]

Have you ever heard Dennis Prager talk? She sounds like his sock puppet.

[@crzyprplmnky]

Exactly, Islam is... Well it's the third book in the trilogy (bonus material via Mormons)

[@Elizabeth-mp6tr]

Or a personal one???

[@nathan87]

It's somewhat ironic that she decries "woke ideology" - a battle pretty much fought entirely on the front of newly minted semantics - while simultaneously insisting on her own definition of Christianity.

[@sbnwnc]

Good point. It's a political and cultural move. Hard to believe she has a personal relationship with Jesus and that she believes that her sins have been washed by the blood of Christ. This is a political conversion disguised as a religious one.

[@shassett79]

A: "I'm Christian now!" B: "Interesting. What convinced you of god or the resurrection?" A: "No, no, I am Christian in the sense that I like Western civilization." B: ???

[@thegrunbeld6876]

She should have been worshipping Jupiter and Juno, not Jesus.

[@spencerantoniomarlen-starr3069]

Maybe go actually listen to her explaining it at length rather than a takedown video if you want to address those three question marks

[@shassett79]

@@spencerantoniomarlen-starr3069 I have, but I guess I missed the part where she affirmed basically any Christian doctrine. Do you have a quote?

[@maximusreed9270]

​@@spencerantoniomarlen-starr3069sheclearly says it doesn't mean she believes every word in the bible is true.

[@mntomovi]

@@thegrunbeld6876 Jupiter is not Jesus. Jesus is unique

[@Junosensei]

There's a saying about Japan where you "are born Shinto, married Christian, and die Buddhist", based on the fact that some parents go to Shinto shrines to ask for blessings (and sometimes a ritual baptism) for their newborns, people often go to a church to be married, and have their funerals at Buddhist temples. If you ask the average Japanese person if they are religious, you will often hear "no", but if you follow up with "Do you pray to any of the gods or buddha?" or "Do you partake in religious ceremony?", you will hear "Oh, yes", and maybe a contemplative "Oh, I guess I am religious then". While most non-religious people in the broader West do partake in religious ritual due to cultural normativity, Japan's culture dips strongly into the superstitious. With a framing like this in mind, I do not find it strange for a person to treat spiritualism as a way of life one strongly believes in without the condition of directly believing in the ressurrection of Jesus.

[@rexsceleratorum1632]

This is somewhat similar for Hindus. Jesus and Buddha may find a place in personal shrines. However the situation is definitely more intense and politicized than in Japan. Right wing Hindus see conversions by Christians and violence from the peacelamics as an existential threat. I am an ex-Christian atheist in India.

[@RummanaMoledina]

​​@@rexsceleratorum1632if you can, do read the comment I have posted. It's quite long from a conversation I had with a friend a few days ago.

[@mediaguyking7045]

But that’s kinda different, most of them believe in the supernatural, also buthism and Shinto aren’t exclusive religions. And churches will just marry anybody whiteout caring about religious Fidelstion.

[@theunlearnedastronomer3205]

Interesting points, I noticed something similar when I lived in China. In Ayaan Hirsi Ali's defense, who gets to define what it means to be a Christian? There were a lot of different types of followers after Jesus' death, from the Ebionites to the Gnostics and everything in between. Sure, Paul's version won out, but what is more American (Thomas Jefferson) than deciding for yourself what it means to be a Christian and if someone doesn't like it they can go to hell?

[@RummanaMoledina]

@@theunlearnedastronomer3205 exactly

[@ZaraKayk]

This was probably the best analysis I've heard about Ayaan's conversion. I love how non-personal you made it and really nailed down some of her own words without trying to offer her an alternative solution. Thank you Alex!

[@Simon-A.-Tan]

Her entire plea for "We must defend these traditions no matter what...." really makes her come off as the exact type of person she used to pretend to fight against.

[@emperortgp2424]

If you view this through the lens of cultural relativism, sure.

[@Simon-A.-Tan]

@@emperortgp2424 The principles and core beliefs are the same. The only difference is that christianity has declined overall in terms of political relevance. Before that was the case, countless atrocities were committed in it's name. Just grab a history book. She's at the very least enabling the type of people who'd bring back those days in a heartbeat.

[@skepticusmaximus184]

I've said for years, that totalitarianism begins precisely at the point where you agree to accept something as factual truth because you're ordered to do so. Totalitarianism imho, isn't simply the acting out of entrenched dogma by violent means. It's accepting the protocol of doxastic volunteerism and choosing to believe something because you desperately want it to be true, and that cannot be parsed by reason. In other words, once you make your preferred dogma impervious to criticism in your own mind, you've become a totalitarian. Voltaire said it best. "He who can convince you of absurdities, can convince you to commit atrocities."

[@rexsceleratorum1632]

@@Simon-A.-Tan You are in for a nasty surprise when the Peace Religion gains a majority in your region. Jesus and Paul told followers to obey their pagan rulers without protest even if they were less than benevolent. Mo told followers to defeat the pagan rulers and kill anybody who refused to accept the One True God and become eligible to live in his theocracy. But please, continue to believe that the principles are the same.

[@Simon-A.-Tan]

@@rexsceleratorum1632 They are. The quran also has verses about tolerance and acceptance (especially towards jews and christians), just like the bible, while the bible is also filled with genocide and a superiority complex, just like the quran... And yes, history is filled with examples of christian churches oppressing people who don't fit their mold.... Both books are filled with contradicting bs. Both can be interpreted in a more liberal or rightcore fashion, with the most ardent or uneducated believers always leaning in the latter direction. Islamists and christian nationalists being the worst.... the ones who want that shitty theocracy.... Both religions also have a majority of followers who don't really care about what's written, as much as they care about the legitimation of their traditions and their reinforcement over others. That's why christians who preach against gays oftentimes don't seem to mind getting tattoos, even though those receive the same condemnation in the exact same book of Leviticus. They're all hypocrites at heart. Reading theory-shit like the bible or the quran thus teaches you NOTHING about christianity or islam in the real world. Talking with christians and muslims does.... Christianity has faced a decline in relevance due to secularization, which has moderated most of it's expressions in the west. Islam needs the same treatment, but low levels of education hinder that, amongst other geopolitical and economic factors oc. However, instead of fighting for that, this egocentric b*tch is now trying to enable the most deplorable christian shitheads to make their triumphant return to relevance. Fuck her.

[@xemy1010]

Strikes me that Ayaan Hirsi Ali publicly "converted" to Christianity for the same reason that Andrew Tate publicly "converted" to Islam -- gaining political and social clout among their target audience. Her article reads like a satirical parody of the Dailywire.

[@mntomovi]

Ayaan had more criticism from this conversion than Tate had praised. And Tate has been elevated because of his shahadah. Somehow

[@Remake5182]

I felt that too. She does have that whole vibe to the essay.

[@Remake5182]

@@mntomovi Did Christians criticise her?

[@mntomovi]

@@Remake5182 did I say Christians criticize her?

[@Remake5182]

@@mntomovi No, but it sounded like you were saying, Ayaan had more criticism than Tate had praised. So I thought you were referring to Muslims critiquing Tate less than Christians did Ayan. Sorry.

[@jeremiahstenzel789]

When I told a family member that I had become an atheist, he asked me why I still donated to a religious charity that helps my community. I told him just because it isn't true doesn't mean it isn't useful. This is utilitarian in the same way.

[@titikkoma8586]

I never ever find any single verses in the Bible if Jesus made religion.. and religion is man made.

[@WaaDoku]

Exactly. You don't need a Church to be able to pray.

[@josephocallaghan3000]

Religion=belief system. Atheism=a religion/based on belief Street survey of Atheists: They assert almost 100%, ''I do not believe in God/I believe there is no God'' Theist: ''I believe in God/I don't believe in Atheism'' - equal / flip side to the Atheist Agnosticism: ''there probably is no God' - as R Dawkins asserts.

[@titikkoma8586]

@@WaaDoku Church just a building.. the core church is your heart your faith.. and the building church is your body..

[@bigkirbyhj666]

​@@titikkoma8586honestly i belive the god of the bible is more likely to have existed more than Jesus.

[@loooongneck]

“Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?” That’s the furthest a question can get from simple

[@ahmedmaniyaruni4300]

I think what she meant was 'fundamental'

[@inotterwords6115]

And I find the theistic answers to this question to be dramatically underwhelming. "To worship God"? What kind of purpose is that?

[@omartabaza7561]

​@@inotterwords6115if a person believes that God created them, which I do by the way, of course you are gonna say the reason is to worship God. Dont you think believing in God and then saying the meaning of life is anything other than worshipping God is hypocritical.

[@JeremyCioppa]

​@omartabaza7561 why would an all powerful, all knowing, eternal being care whether or not some monkeys on a rock worships him?

[@omartabaza7561]

@@JeremyCioppa It is not our business what Allah wants,He is an all knowing being,all we know is that we must worship him to not burn eternally in hellfire.

[@andrewsm00]

The question I can’t get past is, “then why call it Christianity?”

[@sonoftheway3528]

I've heard many call themselves "culturally Jewish" or "culturally Muslim" without actually believing in the religions. I think that's what she means without admitting it.

[@InfiniteScrawl]

They should just skip to the part where it's a nakedly political position. Call it "Christianism" or something.

[@kugirea]

because politics

[@SirTatManTat]

She has a very clear agenda with the conversion imo, I don't think it's subtle and I think that's intentional. SHe legit fears for "western society" and thinks religion is the best way to combat it.

[@mntomovi]

There must be a centre

[@mithilbhoras5951]

Her assertion that every westerner is, by heart, a Christian, is such a disturbing sentiment. This strongly echoes the "You are such a good person, you cannot be an atheist" sentiment. The correlation that some theists try to assert between Atheism and Nihilism is taking a strong hold nowadays, especially due to political reasons. It's saddening because some of them truly believe our lives don't matter if we aren't Christian.

[@tempgangster4952]

Exactly.. these r just more attempts and agendas in play..she's bought..plain n simple..religions only use is to divide and suppress your intelligence.

[@alfredbackhus6110]

Interesting. I can intuitively understand why someone might find a worldview that is true extremely conductive towards nihilism and a deep feeling of live not mattering at all- especially since it is indeed true that every human being will eventually quit being and time and then it will be the case that everything "is" as if there had been nothing at all, forever. Can't you feel the cold breath radiating from this truth?

[@bakters]

" *The correlation [...] between Atheism and Nihilism* " Correlation is not causation, but the correlation is definitely there. Atheism is supposed to be simply a lack of faith, a lack of worship, but it tends to go further. It rejects God ,not only as a supernatural being, but as the idea itself. Which is weird if we use logic, so many atheists claim to be good at. If God is a human invention, why would we want to reject it? We know it was a very successful idea, which persisted throughout all human civilization, and likely more than that. So if we decided to abandon it, we should be *extremely* careful about it, not? It's like deciding all of a sudden, that we don't need marriage any more. Which we actually did do... " *due to political reasons* " Funny thing, they say the same about atheism. " *some of them truly believe our lives don't matter if we aren't Christian* " That's not what they think. Your lives matter to you, everybody assumes it's the case. Do anything else matters, though? That's what they are doubting.

[@lazysylph3312]

@@alfredbackhus6110life is cold sometimes. It can have no objective meaning, that’s fine. We can still find our own meaning and make our short, only life better, and better the lives of others. Fuck god, you shouldn’t need a character to give you morals.

[@lazysylph3312]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@baktersanti theism. Get it right. I don’t begrudge others religions and generally don’t combat others on the basis of religion. 2. We don’t need marriage, not the Christian definition most certainly. 3. Being the only game in town doesn’t make you right… just makes you unavoidable. Like ISPs in the countryside. That’s Christianity to me. Can you actually explain how atheism is inherently political? Are are you going to make vague assertions? Others lives matter to me and my secular, atheist, and even anti theist friends. Your pointless doubt doesn’t change that. Maybe you need a sky dad for morals, many do not. Christian love can be the most potent form of hate.

[@lankyjuggler]

First time viewer, but I really like your ability to stay focused and the way you bring a non-at tacking, curiosity-driven tone to a touchy topic.

[@mskuboz]

I just want to say to you Alex that I love the videos you do alone. There is something amazing about the way you draw the attention of the viewer and how you present you thought process. Great stuff Man!

[@SirEebRhawl]

I really like how charitable you are while still remaining laser-focused on every component of the subject you tackle.

[@joannware6228]

"And since God is a Spirit, and infinitely above all matter and all creation, the only complete union possible, between ourselves and Him, is in the order of intention: a union of wills and intellects, in love, charity." Thomas Merton "The Seven Storey Mountain"

[@SirEebRhawl]

@@joannware6228 ... eeh... thanks I guess.

[@andrewprahst2529]

I wish charity was more the norm

[@lrvogt1257]

@@joannware6228 : But there is no "him" so you're on your own. Be good to others and they are more likely to be good to you.

[@joannware6228]

@@lrvogt1257 Really. When were you born? Yesterday?

[@hippipdip]

Perfectly rational reason to avoid walking under ladders. Specifically, not wanting a ladder to accidentally fall on your head.

[@Soapandwater6]

Or a paint bucket!

[@branan6935]

My thought when I heard him give that example

[@skepticusmaximus184]

I commented on the same thing but realised that the practical motive is often baked into religious dogma as an unstated ulterior motive.

[@lifefindsaway7875]

@@skepticusmaximus184True believers know that falling paint buckets are gods way of punishing those who stray beneath ladders!

[@skepticusmaximus184]

@@lifefindsaway7875 I heard many years ago, that the basis of the superstition was that the triangle formed by the ladder, ground and wall, represents the Holly Trinity. So walking between them breaks the bonds or some such stupidity.

[@mickmorrison]

My mother was RC and after she passed away the funeral was held in a RC church. I remember her name being mentioned twice but multiple times there was mention of some mythical being by the person conducting the service. Songs my mother loved were not allowed, only songs again about the mythical being were played, I left that building with great disappointment. Later the wake was held in a local club and we all had a great singsong in honour of my mother life. Things are changing and the last three funerals I have attended have been humanist occasions with speeches about the deceased persons lives. There was no mention of any mythical being only stories of their lives, songs played that they loved and of the memories they gave us.

[@Be_curious1]

where have you been hiding bro 😂? You are amazing. I found your channel yesterday, and I am very grateful for that ❤🙏🏻

[@magneto44]

you’ve got tons of great free content in your future, enjoy :)

[@EngineerBC]

He's been here forever man... We kinda grew up with him 😅

[@skepticusmaximus184]

11:06 Alex, I like your analogy of not walking under a ladder being a superstition illustrated by performance rather than intellectual conviction. But I also avoid walking under ladders because there's some chance of something falling off it or knocking it. It's a danger zone. The moment I recounted this while watching this video, I realised the analogy runs even deeper, since most religions infuse their doctrine and faith belief with a practical or utilitarian payoff, so the practical avoidance of walking under ladders isn't even a mutually exclusive motive, for the purpose of your analogy. Virtue itself has practical (pudendal) value as well as moral (ethical) value, so I suppose it's no surprise that religion will adopt both strategies.

[@dulls8475]

Is ti not amazing that after a supposed few billion years of random processes ladders exist....

[@RDTRNT]

I mean, I don't consider myself superstitious, but I sometimes do such silly things which can seem superstitious. It's mostly an automatic, learned behaviour for me, stemming from beliefs I once held. I think it's a pretty common experience when people are changing beliefs yet some habitual responses persist. In a practical sense I don't think it's always necessary to show 100% consistency between stated beliefs and behaviour.

[@Albatrossamongus]

@@dulls8475 You keep trotting out this "random processes" straw man. If you care about engaging in good faith at least educate yourself on the absolute basics of the opposing view.

[@subaru4920]

​@@Albatrossamongusnot even worth a response dude

[@Arphemius]

I would go more surface level and just say that saying, "Bless you!" when someone sneezes is not proof that you believe in magic.

[@Arven8]

This was my problem with Brian McLaren's "Should I Stay Christian." McLaren is a progressive Christian. All the issues he raised were of the social-cultural variety, but from the opposite perspective of Hirsi Ali -- i.e., the church's historical complicity with racism, sexism, etc. What he never deals with, and what stopped me from "staying a Christian" was simply the question, "Is it true or not? Do the truth claims of Christianity hold up?" It astonished me that he never even mentioned these issues. It's all about the social-cultural-moral angle -- Christians behaving badly. But that's not the issue for me. The issue for me is, "Is it true?" And I've come to believe that, no, it is not.

[@lVideoWatcherl]

At least from my observation in a western democracy that is not the US, in the more informed and educated circles the actual question of whether it is true or not isn't even discussed at all. Why do that, when you _know_ that there is just no argument you could make that holds up to any scrutiny? Yes, it is actually the more central and more important question - but curiously the values carried might actually be more important to some people than the actual dogmatic truth claims.

[@tgenov]

Before you choose your religion you have to choose your philosophy; and before you choose your philosophy you have to decide what truth is; and what truth is good for. Which theory of truth have you chosen? There are at least 20 of them… Which theory of truth is the true one? At a young age it’s natural to default to the correspondence theory; but that doesn’t even begin to answer the question “What should be true in future?”

[@bgoodfella7413]

​@@lVideoWatcherlWhat values??

[@tgenov]

@@Tracchofyre Is it a necessary ingredient? The pragmatic theory disagrees. Which word corresponds to the color of the sky “blue” or “red”? Which ever one you want… There are no privileged descriptions - no narratives comes closer to reality than any other… Until you explain to me why the sky is “blue” and not “red” you have no reason to accept the correspondence theory… In philosophy this is know as the symbol grounding problem…

[@tgenov]

@@Tracchofyre Sorry, but you appear to be exceptionally challenged in the department of intellect; as well as extremely intellectually dishonest. You are lying both to yourself and to everyone else reading. When you claim that something is a “problem” what truth theory are you appealing to? Is it true that the pragmatic theory opens problems? Is it true that global warming is a “problem”? If you are indeed using the correspondence theory (as you claim to be doing) what does “problemacy” correspond to in reality? Please point it out. Claiming that something is a “problem” is NECESSARILY a value judgment, not a factual assertion. If you are such a philosophical genius please go ahead and prove that any of your problem-claims are true. Please tell us how you get from fact to problem using correspondence. Bet you can’t. Here is your F.

[@cDogRage]

I've always found this desire people have for something more, really odd. I grew up in a very rural part of the world, quite isolated even from my parents and the small community around me. I just was and enjoyed being. I loved experiencing the world around me, every part of it was fascinating. I felt aware that there would always be shit to learn and other shit we haven't even figured out yet, and at some point, a natural end to the learning. I am satisfied to spend the rest of however long we have finding out about everything, just because everything is really interesting. Often tragic, sometimes great but always something to come to terms with. What more do you want??? I think people turn to seek more when they are hurt, because it feels unfair - because it is unfair, because there's no rhyme or reason to all of this - I think you gain agency when you realize there is no deep reason behind the hurt, because then you can either go "I don't like this, I'm gonna change it" or "there's nothing to be done but to experience it". Edit: Many people in my small childhood town are Christian, they don't care about truth, they don't particularly follow the rules unless it serves them, they don't study theology - they believe because it gives them a moral compass and comfort, they go to church so they are part of a community which offers them a kind social security and structure. It's a moral compass for people who want to be part of a community, because it's difficult to form united communities when we all go our own way. It's not a bad thing, it's a very human thing to do to stay alive, but likewise it will always be politically charged. My two cents.

[@hammedmousavi2297]

how do you know what the truth is? How are you sure there is no meaning to all of this?

[@drew.p.y]

Why? Because there is incredibly good evidence for overarching meaninglessness, despite the fact that we can create our own "meaning". The cosmos is absolutely gargantuan. On a universal scale, the earth might as well not exist for all intents and purposes. If the planet Earth was destroyed tomorrow, the universe would not be negatively or positively affected; it would just continue existing like nothing happened. We know this. This is a fact. When we die, our brains stop firing action potentials and our bodies decompose. That is because we are made up of non-intelligent molecules that obey the laws of physics. Every atom that made us up is still there when we die. Nothing went anywhere. Our. Brains. Stopped. Working. We haven't even come close to proving otherwise. I wonder why. But if that's not enough then answer some questions: If you can't bear admitting that there is no "God", what evidence do you have there is one? And if you say the bible is evidence, what about the quran? What about the Iliad? What about the ancient Hindu poems and texts, which were written before the old testament? They provide the exact same kind of evidence, including miracle stories and supernatural encounters. What about the native americans that lived on the western hemisphere for thousands of years without any communication with the outside world? Did "God" just forget them? Hopefully this helps jog your logic. cheers

[@juanausensi499]

@@hammedmousavi2297 What makes you think there is one?

[@hammedmousavi2297]

@@juanausensi499 I'm not saying there is, I'm saying reality is more complex than that. I am an existentialist atheidt myself (with buddhist-leaning tendencies), but I think reality is far stranger. What I'm taking issue against is championing science against religion and other systems. Science is just as clueless about reality as the rest of them.

[@juanausensi499]

@@hammedmousavi2297 Science is the discipline that taught us things are more, more complex. Scientist don't put science against religion, because religion is just a non-issue in science: if supernatural powers capable of doing miracles exist, that's ok, science only studies the non-miraculous, normal workings of the world. Science explains how wine transforms into vinegar, but it has no interest in water transforming into wine. Is science 'clueless' about reality? Maybe, maybe not. But it works, and that's the only thing that matters.

[@Domesticated_Ape]

You’ve summed it up brilliantly, as usual. The only thing I would add is that lots of concepts we use are in fact somewhat fictional in that they are abstractions. Numbers don’t exist and yet we rely on the every single day. Even something like the word “chair” is a shared fantasy. Granted, that last one is more rooted in reality than any religion. But I think the narratives that make up a religion are similar abstractions of human nature. Absolutely fictional, but useful nonetheless.

[@spiderclown5572]

I think there is an important difference between religion and "useful fictions". Platonic ideals like "chair" and "three" were never meant to be taken as something that actually exists. Realness is not a concept that's at all relevant in the context of those types of abstractions. It would be like considering the weight of the colour blue. Christianity is more similar to something like "the economy" in that it needs to be acknowledged on its own terms for it to serve its purpose.

[@Domesticated_Ape]

@@spiderclown5572 platonic ideals are supposed to exist as abstract objects outside of space and time. Doesn’t that remind you of something?

[@spiderclown5572]

@@Domesticated_Ape What, no they don't. Plato believed that but it's not scientific or philosophical consensus.

[@Domesticated_Ape]

@@spiderclown5572 “Plato believed that”

[@Domesticated_Ape]

@@spiderclown5572 I know it’s not scientific, durr. I don’t believe anything “exists” outside of space and time. I’m not even really sure what that would mean. But IMO they “exist” in the same way God does (ie not really, just as a useful abstraction).

[@greenprobe]

Recently I had a family member pass and I'm embarrassed to say it caused a crisis of skepticism after a life of feeling pretty secure in my atheist-leaning agnosticism. Suddenly arguments that would have felt paper-thin now possess a gravity that causes my mind to rapidly orbit around them constantly wondering "But what if I'm missing something and it's right?" I can't shake the sense that the concept of religion is holding my loved one hostage, because if I believe suddenly they're reachable again. I feel sympathetic to Ayaan, but still disappointed.

[@dulls8475]

Go back to the beginning and ask your self if a code as complex as DNA could form by random processes. If you are logical then you will conclude there is an author. Dont be fooled by the use of the word abiogenesis. It has no substance. By the way DNA is far more complex than my post yet you recognise my post could not have come about randomly. Man has yet to come up with a code as good or as effective as DNA. If you arrive at a conclusion them ask yourself how a code reader then came about. After all information is useless if it cant be understood. God is in the detail.

[@Hamdad]

@@dulls8475 "Go back to the beginning and ask your self if a code as complex as DNA could form by random processes. If you are logical then you will conclude there is an author." Indeed, nature is beautiful, but what sort of beauty is it? Life is complex, but what specific type of complexity do we observe? The answer is that fractals and spirals (such as the double helix) occur throughout nature. These patterns are always present in the result of an optimizing process working against constraints, seeking the path of least resistance. Erosion for example, which is why river layouts and landforms obey fractal math. It’s like the procedural generation also used to generate landscapes in games, not coincidentally also the only source of complexity simple enough, itself, to naturally occur as a confluence of physical laws (ala natural selection). The layout of snowflakes is another good example. It’s fractal because crystallization is also a form of naturally occurring procedural generation. Do you believe God manually sculpts every snowflake as it descends from the clouds? Or that they self-assemble into hexagonal fractals because H2O consists of 3 parts, so covalent bonding unites them into hexagonal molecular lattices when water freezes? And that crystallization proceeds against the fluctuating external constraint of air temperature on descent, explaining both the fractal layout and why no two are alike? If we can agree these properties are naturally occurring in snowflakes for non-supernatural reasons, why would the same not be true of the fractal complexity observed in the anatomy of humans, plants and other organisms? Which are also products of a natural optimizing process, working against environmental constraints.

[@induction7895]

If you want to follow a path, try Dharmic path which is much better than Abrahamic ways.

[@martifingers]

I am sorry for your loss greenprobe. I think many of us have had similar thoughts at times of grief so embarrassment is not something to worry about. Faith is not just a narrative historically imposed on society but for many it addresses the fundamental issue of our fear of death and insignificance that we all seem to share as part of our human identity. I have my own ideas of course but I don't think you need any theories or arguments just now. Instead I suggest this song from someone who apparently lost their faith but gloriously learned to live with her uncertainty and love for humanity. No answers but surely as someone once said, it befits children lost in the wood to be kind to each other.... kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJ3EoIVropl_bpI I do hope it helps whichever direction you take..

[@per2632]

grief can be tough and make you question reality. The best way to deal with it, is to talk to your friends, talk to your family and know, that they will be there for you and you will be there for them. Also exercise helps as well, or just do any activities if that's too much right now.

[@CorwinFound]

Ali seems quite comfortable calling atheists Christian based on taste, culture, general morals and conduct. I wonder if she's as comfortable using those same metrics with say Buddhists, Hindus, Jews or Muslims who meet those same criteria?

[@rexsceleratorum1632]

Certainly with Hindus and Jews. There are lots of Hindus who don't believe in much of the religion since there is no central text that all Hindus must believe or they're out. Quite the opposite for peacelam, where you have to accept the creed 'la ilaha ilallah, muhammadu rasulullah', or you are immediately an ex-peacelamic and in danger for your life. I don't know that much about Buddhism.

[@lassi8519]

In Finland we call people who basically don't believe or think about the church much, but who are still on the books(and still get married in a church and have funerals in church and stuff), 'tapakristitty' or, 'habitual Christians'. Quite unusual for someone to become a habitual christian by conversion. Usually it's something you kind of just grow into, having not left the church.

[@luyombojonathan6688]

Interesting 🤔

[@Thedimensionalwarrior]

She adopted political Christianity and became a cultural christian by default

[@Adam-gd6pp]

In the USA, we call similar people "nominal Christians."

[@ramudon2428]

I'd just call them atheists here in Norway.

[@GhettoAceTypeBeat]

It’s crazy that it took this long to come across your content, Alex. The algorithm gods have finally allowed it lol, I’m glad. Your arguments are very eloquent. You’ve gained a new subscriber 🔥

[@PauLtus_B]

It's a bizarre pipeline to see people fall out of religion and then return to similar close-minded dogma simply because they can't cope to accept the uncertainty of reality.

[@j.d.buchanan4897]

But she's not returned to dogma, that's the whole point

[@PauLtus_B]

@@j.d.buchanan4897 Religion without the values she now sees as very important isn't really harmful, yet these are the things she falls back on.

[@2silkworm]

It's not about believe now, it's about social unity and cultural values. And I totally can understand it considering the crisis of identity in Europe. I don't believe in God but I'm a cultural Christian and I see immense value in European culture. So when people want to explicitly stress their affinity to Christian values is totally understandable in modern times. Religion is not about the truth it's about fitness. It's a cultural superstructure that showed its effectiveness over time.

[@PauLtus_B]

@@2silkworm Sure but that also means you keep all the bad baggage. Just having a wrong belief is not a problem on itself, if there is a problem with religion it lies in those values.

[@angusmcculloch6653]

LOL. "Reality". Schopenhauer eat your heart out.

[@Dewstend]

The ending line was amazing! I love these kinds of videos.

[@edwardoapc]

That's a very interesting debate as usual. Allow me to add a personal experience as an apostate. The cornerstone for leaving my faith was the realization that I could pratice the values I was taught in church during childhood without adhering to Christian truth. In a way, I did the opposite to Ms. Ali.

[@jeremias2975]

What people call "good behavior" is insufficient to be welcomed in Heaven. The holyness of Lord Jesus is needed: "Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment." "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

[@OmniversalInsect]

@@jeremias2975 If being a good person isn't enough to be accepted to the cool club, I would rather live my free existence now.

[@jeremias2975]

@@OmniversalInsect God wants you to be saved: “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.” “As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways” Thus, I must lovingly inform you that as of today you are an ignorant (3), evil (2) slave (1), because you don’t value your eternal soul (3), you are not righteous (2) and you are not free of sin (1): 1. You are a slave: “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.” __________________________________________________________________________ 2. You are evil before the Lord, living in the sin of incredulity that leads you to death, Judgment day and hell: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” __________________________________________________________________________ 3. You ignore the importance of receiving the Grace of God, not understanding that losing your eternal soul by being thrown to hell is not worth it: “For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.”

[@gustavangerbjorn5601]

@@jeremias2975 What is and isn't insufficient to get into heaven isn't for us to say. That is up to the divine and just ruler, God. And because God is just, it is difficult to see that God will judge two rightous persons differenty, one who calls themselves christian, and one who doesn't (imagine if they haven't heard about the bible). Remember Moses and Eliah on the mountaintop, two people who hadn't heard about christ, but were rightous.

[@jeremias2975]

Hello @@gustavangerbjorn5601 The person I was responding to believes he can practice the values he was taught in church during childhood without adhering to Christian truth. My point is that yes, he can, and many people might consider him a “good, decent man". But if he believes he is going to enter Heaven because of his works, he is mistaken, because no one can do that: “Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.”

[@timgoodliffe]

great video, thought provoking

[@nineteenninetyfive]

She just enters the sphere of the culture war and chooses a side. For people from a religious society there is nothing strange about choosing a religious affiliation for non religious reasons. People used to do it all the time.

[@donnievance1942]

That's true, but it is definitionally insincere. There are a ton of religious pastors and priests who don't believe a word of their respective ideologies beyond the general ethical prescriptions that are mostly common to all of them. This kind of insincerity is a social evil, because the general ethical principles of all religions are all mixed up with dubious specificities, claims to exclusive right, and erroneous factual ideas about reality, the adoption of which can only take place by a learned avoidance of critical thinking, a widespread phenomenon which poses one of the greatest threats to the human race.

[@ClintLock1]

@@donnievance1942 you are problematizing an inherent feature of humanity, which has become a source of great confusion and fury in the digital age. the world *runs* on nested degrees of insincerity and ritual. sincerity is only interpersonal. no such thing as a fully sincere public figure. supposedly there was only 1 man capable of it, a Mr. J. Christ.

[@tgenov]

​@@donnievance1942 The learned embracse of critical thinking amounts to suspension of judgment in the limit. Absolute doubt - zero bias. And you end up like Buridan's ass. In practice critical thought is insufficient. Your monkey-brain cannot compute the complexity of reality. So you have no choice but to settle for a heuristic... Actively peddling more thinking when no amount of thinking will ever suffice is itself harmful.

[@blingabiaino197]

People becoming Christian for non-religious reasons is not a win for Christianity, however much you'd like to believe that.

[@tgenov]

​@@blingabiaino197 This is called the persuasive definition fallacy. You've taken the meaning of"win" and "loss" and you've flipped them around. You are the epitome of what's wrong with relativism.

[@Will-xf3qe]

15:13 odd that she says she's "of the judeo-christian religion" I feel like that's not really a thing. They're 2 different religions with a common origin. Islam also shares that origin . I feel like using the term judeo-christian is really just a conservative signifier

[@pansepot1490]

Her all article is a compendium of the talking points peddled by PragerU.

[@canwelook]

Yes. "Judeo-Christian" is an entirely dishonest conflation of 2 very different, opposing religions and cultures. Jewish believers disavow everything about Christianity. And Christians have ruthlessly persecuted Jews for all of the last 2,000 years.

[@donnievance1942]

Absolutely. And the "Judeo-Christian religion" isn't just two different religions. It's about 3,000. The non-specificity is a dead giveaway. I mean, she could have her own variant, but if she does, you might expect her to name some theological specifics.

[@deanf6036]

Finally someone asks the right question! (referring to video title)

[@CriticallyCorrect]

your dream analogy was amazing

[@pbradgarrison]

She converted to the Republican cult which is culturally christiany. Her points in the article are Republican dogma rather than christian dogma.

[@gav1233]

What a traitor.

[@SecretumofTruth]

LOL

[@CosmicTeapot]

I know US defaultism is hard to overcome, but this mindset is so much beyond Republicanism, it's present in many countries around the world who have shifted or are shifting politically to a more conservative-populist narrative. "Republican" is not a very useful descriptive because it is a fluid one which has many different contradicting definitions, whereas conservative-populism always means roughly the same dogma: rejecting new social/economic theories and appealing to people's national/cultural identity.

[@youlig1]

No, it's called logic my friend 😂 Try it out...

[@mkr4646]

Oh no, she might be republican. How terrible. How charitable to imply that people who disagree with you are in a political cult but those who agree with you are genuine.

[@wunnell]

Last time I looked, the population of Russia is primarily Christain. It's very like the US in that it is officially secular but about 3/4 of the population is Christian, at least nominally.

[@canwelook]

Lol. Yes!!! The proportion of the population identifying as Christian in Russia and the US is identical!!! Russia 61% in 2023 USA projection 61% in 2023 (63% in 2021) Makes a mockery of Ayaan's reasoning.

[@TheEverFreeKing]

​@@Tracchofyrethe actual belief in Russia is a lot lower, don't have the same kind of passionate Christianity that the United States does. It's kind of like Iran where on paper everyone is Muslim but actually a huge percentage of the population is atheist. America's Christianity is more genuine and sincere.

[@donnievance1942]

@@TheEverFreeKing Agreed. I saw some statistics on religious participation in Russia-- going to church, participating in religious ceremonies, etc. Their participation rate was VERY low-- lower than many western European countries that have much higher rates of declared atheism and agnosticism. But there is a de facto governmental policy of promoting religion and expecting people to declare their Christianity, all while nominally having a secular and unbiased legal system. All the female news anchors and commentators now wear little crosses around their necks.

[@B.S._Lewis]

I made the same but opposite comment about China's atheism.

[@wunnell]

@@TheEverFreeKing *"America's Christianity is more genuine and sincere."* So unlike Ayaan's own then. You might also say that it's less insane than American Christainity.

[@chmwolf]

Thanks Alex for your thoughtful consideration of this topic and your commitment to not "gatekeep" religious belief. I found this helpful. My Christian faith can be so focused on truth claims that I under-emphasize the positive societal impact Jesus intended His followers to make. After all, He did say that love for one another is how people would be able to identify His disciples.

[@littlebitofhope1489]

Except for the slaves, and women, and LGBTQ people and on and on. He was also a little 💩as a kid.

[@MichaelJohnson-composer]

How can you utter the phrases “Christian faith” and “truth claims” in the same sentence?? If you hold Christian faith, then you don’t care about truth. The only societal impact the fictional character of Jesus you think is real wanted to have is to get people to believe in him. And, lest you forget, your gentle Jesus meek and mild prescribed ETERNAL PUNISHMENT for those that didn’t. I say it again: if you hold Christian faith, you care nothing about the truth.

[@robinrehlinghaus1944]

@@MichaelJohnson-composer Don't be mean

[@theboombody]

@@MichaelJohnson-composer Why is caring about the truth even required? Apparently religions don't, but is there a book of atheism that says you have to? Not that I know of.

[@maxonmendel5757]

well said. charity and hospitality are essential, and im always proud of Alex for valuing those things

[@jacquelineburkholder6958]

this is so very well put. thank you for commenting on this. much of what you say in this video is also a great answer to the anti-literalist christians who are too enlightened to take the problematic passages of the bible seriously but also refuse to acknowledge the harm that those passages do and have done regardless of whether they were meant literally or metaphorically

[@jeremias2975]

I believe in Jesus. Can you mention to me some of those problematic passages of the Bible? I'm might be able to provide an explanation.

[@donnievance1942]

No one who has ever read any considerable portions of the Bible can rationally believe that its horrendous contents are some kind of metaphor. There just are no available metaphorical meanings for God's reiterated instructions to his chosen people to kill, plunder, rape, and enslave their neighbors. These are not a few odd passages in the Bible. It is rife with God-directed horror, along with boasting and glorification of these deeds. Any rational person has to look pretty apprehensively at any god who leans on this kind of psychopathic $h!t for his metaphors.

[@angusmcculloch6653]

LOL. Metaphoric literary passages now cause harm. Is it just religious texts? Or do metaphoric passages in all of literature now cause harm?

[@jeremias2975]

Every passage of the Bible is divinely inspired, good and useful: “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”

[@jacquelineburkholder6958]

@@angusmcculloch6653 there’s a big difference between a novel advocating for the subjugation of women and a supposedly sacred religious text advocating for the the subjugation of women. You know this.

[@nolongerinbetween3913]

Paul the Apostle has settled the matter once and for all in his letter to Corinthians: "And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. ... And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. ... IF ONLY FOR THIS LIFE we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied." (1 Corinthians 15:12-19) CS Lewis was also on point on the question of truth: ”One of the greatest difficulties is to keep before the audience’s mind the question of TRUTH. They always think you are recommending Christianity not because it is TRUE, but because it is GOOD. And in the discussion they will at every moment try to escape from the issue ‘True-or False’ into stuff about a good society, or morals, or incomes of Bishops, or the Spanish inquisition, or France, or Poland-or anything whatever. You have to keep forcing them back, and again back, to the real point. Only thus you will be able to undermine…their belief that a certain amount of ‘religion’ is desirable but one mustn’t carry it too far. One must keep on pointing out that CHRISTIANITY IS A STATEMENT WHICH, IF FALSE, IS OF NO IMPORTANCE, and if true, of infinite importance. The one thing it cannot be is moderately important.” What Jordan Peterson and now Ayaan Hirsi Ali are trying to do is mere UTILITARIANISM. Trying to save the Christian narrative, putting aside the question of whether those claims are true or not, for the sake of its benefits FOR THIS LIFE is in fact UNCHRISTIAN. Paul dixit.

[@glenjennett]

One of the biggest misconceptions in life, especially with religion, is that a meaning or purpose of life are just given to us if we follow a certain path. I have had to realize that life isn't going to just drop its meaning into your lap one day. You have to find your own meaning in life. What does your life mean to you? Your purpose is what you want to do with your life, which is not quite the same as finding your meaning. Your meaning is what matters to you, what brings value to your life. Your purpose is how you want to fulfill that meaning. For example, I realized that I like to help others if I can. I like to give to others without expecting anything back. This is meaningful to me. My purpose is trying to find ways of achieving the things that I find meaningful, like thinking of projects for the purpose of giving to others. So, meaning and purpose in life aren't something given to you, they are things for each person to discover for themselves. They aren't going to just fall into your lap one day, so waiting for that to happen is fruitless. Why would God, the Universe or whatever give you a reason for living if you haven't already or are unwilling to realize yourself what you want to do with your life. No invisible entity is going to dictate what you must do with your life if you are unsure yourself. It is up to you to decide what you want to do and how you do it. I hope I have explained this clearly. What is your meaning and what is your purpose? What is your reason for living?

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

Your statement of "There is a crucial difference between the recognition of Christian influence over our culture and many of our values and the recognition of the truth of Christianity ". Thats excellent. I believe there is a strong correlation between human behavior and our perceptions/beliefs regarding the claims of truthfulness in Christianity. If you accept the existence of God, then it should be no problem that God the Creator had a plan of salvation for humanity. Im not infallible and I even dislike the word "religion". I appreciate Alex's honesty and respect. Peace to all from Florida USA

[@CroatianComplains]

Alex would you pull the lever on the trolley tracks, if it would hit infinite people, but you got the satisfaction of pulling a lever?

[@fauxie3090]

good question

[@andythomas4998]

Ask a religious person this question and they would not likely comprehend. They'd be too busy feeling good about their prayers. So what would be satisfying about pulling a lever...?

[@fauxie3090]

@@andythomas4998 r/athiesm moment

[@Big_DT]

Alex, very interesting, so thanks for that. As an atheist living in the Southern part of the USA, many of my neighbors and friends are Christians, which can make for uncomfortable conversations from time to time. I have gleaned from my conversations that some are fervent subscribers to the tenets of Christianity, particularly those beliefs centered around Christ and his resurrection, while others appear to be Christians for the social, and perhaps moral, aspects without paying much attention to the rest. Perhaps religion is no longer following the traditional/historical path and is seeking to add members regardless of belief system? That being said, all members tithe, so there's that.

[@anthonyberard3507]

That's a big that. If this is a mechanism to garner significant funding from the masses, it should be regulated and taxed.

[@isolationnationn]

I think this is largely a US phenomena, where nationalism, religion, culture and politics all get jumbled into one identity, and thus become something you identify as rather than a faith or religion in the normal sense. I think that’s where some of your friends and the writer of this essay are being influenced too. Words and worlds are being merged into one for political reasons, and that identity is spreading while using words whose definitions don’t really match them outside of those bubbles.

[@20july1944]

Big DT, you ignorant redneck: how did the universe begin without God?

[@20july1944]

@@anthonyberard3507 Are you educated in anything? Anything at all?

[@johncampbell9216]

Outstanding analysis Alex. 👍

[@petemartinp]

Love this video

[@booflife]

I’m frustrated with the lack of acknowledgment that embracing cultural Christianity means complacency in lies where people twist reality to suit/vote their bigotry/ignorance without accountability. Failing to cover the significant baggage and hurt Christian’s often impose by her going along with the herd is not evolving for the better.

[@thegrunbeld6876]

Maybe because sometimes truth isn't enough for most people. They really just wanna have their faith rewarded, even if their faith is based on lies.

[@Ultralined]

But when you think about it, what systems put in place in this world doesn't involve people who lie?

[@imbecilicGenius-hn3jo]

So you, the original commentor, want HER to acknowledge all the problems YOU have associated with cultural christianity before calling HERself a christian. I, as a christian, agree that christian culture is problematic but consider it the responsibility of well established christians to deal with rather than the likes of Ali or even Peterson who are by no means christian leaders capable to guide the body of Christ.

[@imbecilicGenius-hn3jo]

​@@thegrunbeld6876 It seems to me that, like many atheists, you have absolutley no comprehension of faith or the Bible. Biblically speaking, faith isn't fire insurance, if you treat it as such then I can confidently say that you aren't covered. Faith can't be had in difinitive lies, that would be denial. So if you can prove what they believe is a lie, then there is no longer room for faith and the "christian" must reevaluate thier stance. Finally faith is not reward based, you must first have faith in an afterlife in order to have faith that you will recieve rewards in it.

[@mntomovi]

Be frustrated with the world then because everything does that. There is no holy idea/movement you can take to remove yourself from your identity.

[@nigeltrc7299]

So she completely changes the definition of Christian to one that pretty much no regular person, including the vast majority of christians would ever use, just so she can call herself a one. This feels manipulative and insincere.

[@montecigno]

this is just very petersonian :-)))

[@josipag2185]

Actually the majority use exactly that one.

[@Deathvalley1980]

Great video

[@brotherben4357]

Absolutely fascinating.

[@Biomirth]

This is tasty so far. I can't wait to finish it... tomorrow (sort of like the logic in the essay, n'est ce pas? (8:20 or so in)). I've been enjoying your work more and more, when I remember to actually watch it.

[@ballerinus]

As I Christian myself, I agree with you. You made excellent points. Ayaan's conversion doesn't prove nor disprove Christianity or even God's existence. Certainly, some people are coming to religion because of the comfort, however that doesn't prove that *everyone* who is religious is religious because of that reason. If we were to make a hypothetical that God does exist and that Christianity is True, it would still be possible to see some people, who either don't understand it, or don't believe in its truth propositions, to embrace its culture for the sake of comfort or sense of community it brings. Therefore, Ayaan's conversion precisely for those reasons does not prove that religion is a "man made thing". Although, it is entirely possible for that to be the case. I would love to hear more about your thoughts about - Is religion: 1. A set of truth proposition, or 2. What you do Notice that I didn't use an "Either or"(excluding OR), but only "or", meaning both can be true. There is certainly, as you've said, some wisdom in saying:"What you believe is better portrayed by what you do, rather than what you say you believe". However, as you've correctly pointed out, it seems "weird" to call yourself a Christian and not believe in the literal Resurrection of Jesus Christ, at the very least. I would really like to hear your thoughts about how much of each "group" (truth propositions and behavior) do you have to adopt in order to call yourself a Christian.

[@bigmanmichael3807]

as a Christian who found faith in a very similar manner to her's i must disagree for a few reasons: 1) you aren't taking into account the journey- you need not instantly believe in Jesus's resurrection. Instead, see the merits of Christianity which leads you to research it with a more open heart. Then you can find the spiritual side and be more willing to be convinced of the historical records. 2) we were offered a beautiful utopia, where science and morality would no longer be held back by religious beliefs. The outcome we got was proof of destructive subjective morality so we move back to objective morality. In turn if we do back 2000 years and find out that Jesus just happen to get every moral teaching correct we must conclude that he either did this by complete chance or there is something more to it. This point does require you to agree with the bible's moral teachings fully

[@canwelook]

@NekoNekokovic If you truly believe something, your automated actions can only follow that belief. If you only conceptually 'believe' something, then your actions can wildly deviate.

[@helvete_ingres4717]

evan evaluating the statement 'Christianity is true' indulges the notion that its some set of propositions that can be evaluated binary true or false. A logical intersection between infinite and finite (or in more religious terms, divine and human) is..the necessary precondition of truth, that's what truth IS if you actually understand it, there can be no such thing otherwise. This medium is something Christians have called..Christ.

[@kinggrant95]

⁠​⁠@@bigmanmichael3807 as a Christian too idk about your second point. Buddhists believed in Jesus’ sense of morality too. They never knew him. He never knew them. So did they just get lucky 2,600 years ago? You see what I mean? Jesus most likely didn’t come into contact with Buddhism is a more solid argument. Bc of the culture he was raised in. You see?

[@mntomovi]

As a Christian I believe All the propositions. Especially the resurrection. But the claim that I know that proposition is preposterous. It's like a black hole, it has everything but more than that. Going beyond knowing feels like it is the hardest thing for an atheist to do.

[@Shinnja]

Thank you for talking about this, I recently have found myself in more of a position of "IDK" and I don't see compelling arguments/evidence for the truth of Christianity. So when my friend asked me "Do I believe Jesus is the Son of God?" and I answered "IDK" I was basically told I'm not a true Christian. To avoid deceiving people, I don't call myself a Christian anymore now, but I will add that all of my values/principles and many of my traditions have remained closely the same. I think the video by Genetically Modified Skeptic "Arguments for God are NOT important. Here's why (feat. Cosmic Skeptic)" was excellent in pointing out that religion is composed of more than just what you believe is factually true. Still, to avoid unintentional deception, I don't claim to be a Christian because there are so many who feel that you HAVE to be convinced for certain religious facts in order to qualify not burning in hell forever and wearing the Christian identity, as if you could just flip a switch and choose what you believed factually in any given moment...

[@angusmcculloch6653]

Well, Romans lays out pretty clearly what belief is required to be Christian. If you don't believe that, or don't know if you believe that, why would you want to call yourself Christian?

[@theboombody]

Well, you can still believe things you aren't sure of. No one ever said your job was to appease those in the church who are searching for your flaws.

[@funnythat9956]

@@angusmcculloch6653 "Well, Romans lays out pretty clearly what belief is required to be Christian" Well Jesus lays out cleary in Matthew 7 and Matthew 25 that there will be many who think they are saved, and are not; and many who do not think they are saved, and are. Protestant, and especially evangelical, theology has moved to a position where God decides on the basis of a 10 word prayer, whether you go to heaven or hell. Many other Christian traditions do not follow that same path. Historically there have been British protestants burning catholics or other protestants, US protestants supporting slavery, German protestants supporting Hitler. My sense is that Matthew 7 and 25 are not only about Jews or "other/false" Christian denominations. It indicates that "doing" Christianity is more important than "confessing" Christianity.

[@angusmcculloch6653]

@@funnythat9956 You're right that Jesus says there are some who call Him Lord but will not enter--I don't know that He says there are people who don't believe they are saved but actually are. Interestingly, those who say they are saved but aren't reference their works, "did we not prophecy in your name; did we not in your name drive out demons; did we not perform miracles in your name" and Jesus says, "Away from me, you evildoers". That seems to put a fatal blow to your contention that "doing" Christianity is the most important. Also, "confessing" Christianity is necessary. You must confess your belief in Christ publicly. Romans 10, Matthew 10, and 1 Timothy 6 attest to this.

[@joepiekl]

This is just the more palatable evolution of "you can't be good if you're not religious." It's changed to "sure, you can be atheist and a good person, but you're only good because you grew up in a society infused with Christian values." And when pressed on what those Christian values are, they are typically just the nice bits that basically are present in almost every Christian and non-Christian society. I live in a city where it's mostly Islamic with a huge Buddhist minority and a sizeable Hindu population. And you know what? Most people are great, help other people, and don't lie, cheat or steal. It's almost as if these things exist independently of religion, even if religion occasionally influences what form positive actions take.

[@ahmedmaniyaruni4300]

There is no way of anchoring goodness into human character other than by religious or 'religious' faith-based ideals of what it means to be a good human. Atheism is morally dead.

[@joepiekl]

​@@ahmedmaniyaruni4300 But you've literally just admitted with your use of 'religious' in inverted commas that it's possible for a moral system to be based entirely on a performance of religious belief rather than any actual religious belief. Which means the actual religious belief itself is unnecessary for a moral code. And if the belief that the law originated with God isn't there, then all you have is yet another man-made moral code that's subject to the whims of the population at the time (which is all religious moral codes have ever been anyway, which is why they constantly change according to the prevailing culture). I don't think anyone has ever suggested that atheism offers moral guidance. Just that religion doesn't have a monopoly on it, or represent the best version of it in the modern era.

[@ahmedmaniyaruni4300]

​@@joepiekl Islam is the only widespread moral code that is largely rigid and unchanging in its basic moral principles. It has been this way since its inception. Studies have shown that belief in God is a biologically programmed belief. Atheistic worldviews remove God but replace it with nothing.

[@tgenov]

This perpetual focus on individuals is totally misguided. All the relevant moral changs/progress in society are systemic. Individuals rise or fall in that system. If it's not one of them, it'll be another. The anecdotes of good people in bad systems or bad people in good systems do absolutely nothing to address the statistical facts of collective goodness.

[@tgenov]

@@joepiekl >based entirely on a performance of religious belief rather than any actual religious belief. There has never been a disconnect between performance and belief. It is only the idiocy of analytic/reductionist philosophy which has made us over-emphasize on beliefs in a vacuum detached from any implication or consequence. What is the worth in believing that murder is attrocious if you keep committing it? Pragmatists (like William James) attempted to dispose of the abstract mind/word game of "beliefs"... "there can be no difference anywhere that doesn't make a difference elsewhere - no difference in abstract truth that doesn't express itself in concrete fact and in conduct consequent upon that fact, imposed on somebody, somehow, somewhere, and somewhen"

[@VulcanLogic]

The conversion was to make more money on the rubber chicken circuit. Full stop.

[@jordanjohnson9415]

I’m praying for you, Alex. God bless you.

[@lrvogt1257]

Perhaps you think you're being nice but you have no idea how arrogant and condescending you sound.

[@quantize]

We are thinking for you

[@jordanjohnson9415]

Thanks. I never learned how to do that.@@quantize

[@StuckCentrist]

Religion For Breakfast would likely agree in some part with the "something you do" outlook. When you think of Buddhism, for example, you might think of robes and rituals before you think of premises. In the end, the "something you do" / "group you're a member of" way of seeing it is more frustrating for atheists intent on disproving it, but it is more useful when discussing religion in almost every other context.

[@angusmcculloch6653]

Religion is a modern word, a concept that the originators of belief systems would not have had, and it's best that we stop trying to define it. It is a meaningless word.

[@singfree88]

Such a carefully crafted video and an amazing insight: religion is something you do, not something that is true. As a religious person myself, I would qualify the second part of that pithy statement (thus ruining it) but still I would insist that there are manifestly true bits in most if not every religion. I think only by considering the true bits (as tested by experience) of what people have said or claimed all over the world and throughout time can we get more of an appreciation of truth.

[@nefaristo]

Isn't Christianity based on faith ? Say somebody believes that Christ said something morally relevant today and original at the time, but doesn't believe he resurrected or fly in the sky: would she be a "christian"? That would sound a bit newspeak to me...

[@jeremias2975]

The religions of the world are full of idolatry and demonic doctrines. They can therefore be very enticing. The only way to really appreciate the Truth is by believing in Him, the Savior sent by the Father to Bethlehem.

[@singfree88]

I used to believe that all true Christians would have to affirm Jesus really resurrected. I’m less sure about that now. Even some of the apostles doubted the resurrected Jesus according to the gospel of Matthew.

[@guardian-X]

I value truth (my definition is to have an exact model of the "real world" as close as possible) too much, that i could ever adopt an ideology just for being useful.

[@samuelwoods6648]

Do you ultimately value truth for its usefulness?

[@jamesdavis3851]

Are you sure "exact" should define a good model? You can look up the most exact model of the real world (google full Hamiltonian standard model, fits on a single page) it's virtually useless in any conceivable practical sense. Scientific models (with rare exception) exist because they make *useful* predictions or explanations.

[@helvete_ingres4717]

how on EARTH would you evaluate how 'close to the real world' a mental model is other than..by how useful it is? Your statement make no sense.

[@jamesdavis3851]

@@helvete_ingres4717 Pretty easily. A model is closer to the real world if it makes more precise predictions over a larger domain of applicability. For example, general relativity is (in this sense) more "true" than Newton's law of gravitation, even though the latter is usually more useful. Seems like a pretty straightforward statement.

[@helvete_ingres4717]

@@jamesdavis3851 you just described a use for a model..and you conceal the actual interchangeability of 'true' and 'useful' in your comment, what you mean is relativity has a 'larger domain of applicability' ie. a broader or more universal context of USE

[@sdscipio]

Great breakdown as usual Alex

[@_P_a_o_l_o_]

Will you make a video elaborating on the “if humans long for something, that something must exist”? It’s an argument I’ve heard a lot from Christian, and I admit I can’t argue with it logically. However, you mentioned having some thoughts on this reasoning, will you share them in a video?

[@donnievance1942]

The logical argument is that it's a non-sequitur. It isn't even a complete syllogism. And it has an unsound term-- "humans long for something." Only some humans long for the eternal life or whatever else the claimant is longing for. Some humans long for the termination of reincarnation and re-birth. Some humans are quite satisfied with the oblivion that prevailed before they were born. Some humans long for the acceptance and detachment that places no infantile demands upon the character of reality.

[@thenorthowl2033]

People are trying to find an alternative to postmodernism, ultimately though people are left unsatisfied with going back to the past. We can't simply undo postmodernism because its giving results that are concerning or unsatisfactory. This would be like Truman from the Truman Show finding out his life has been a lie and then choosing to stay in the dome, both him and the viewers would probably outwardly pretend to be ok with this but inwardly the "magic" would have been lost.

[@DJWESG1]

Post modernism isnt the thesis though. The beleifs these people are attempting to reimpose on everyone else is the thesis.

[@ericb9804]

Agreed. The "alternative" to postmodernism is pragmatism. Which is not exactly "satisfactory," but at least its not full-on nihilism.

[@donnievance1942]

Postmodernism isn't a thing, except in some esoteric French philosophy books and the paranoid imagination of right wingers. I'll bet neither you nor the people you think are exponents of postmodernism could give a comprehensive explanation of what postmodernism even is. And the term "postmodern cultural Marxism" is pretty close to an actual triple oxymoron. I'm getting so weary of the ubiquitous manifestations of MAGAbrain.

[@ericb9804]

@@donnievance1942 Those French philosophy books are not nearly as "esoteric" as you imagine. I'm very atheist and certainly not MAGA, and I consider myself to have accepted "postmodernism," as not only obvious, but also inevitable and desirable. I don't don't claim to be an expert, but for me, the main point is that we can no longer rely on claims of "Objective Truth" to guide our principles. "Objective Truth" is a claim one makes to justify power, but its not something that can be demonstrated, even in theory. Those who fear this realization are the people you complain about, and indeed you are perhaps one yourself. Those who make use of it are pragmatists.

[@thenorthowl2033]

@@donnievance1942 postmodernism is ubiquitous in art, culture, and philosophy. The way humans think about the world is reflected in the things we create. I didn't mention cultural marxism at all. What I am saying is that we are tying to find the next way of the thinking about the world but instead of creating a new way of thinking we have people trying to simply turn back the clock on the way humans think.

[@Rogstin]

I find it interesting because I never heard of her until about a month before this happened while reading about The Four Horsemen, who I also had only head of in that context in the last several years. This despite becoming an atheist during their heyday. I wikipedia'ed myself out of Christianity and researched many religions until finding them all lacking to become agnostic _(also atheist, I just didn't realize it at the time)._

[@jagger_claw]

Why did you research many religions?

[@zzzzzz69]

​@@jagger_clawwhy not

[@jagger_claw]

@@zzzzzz69I wanted to know his motivation behind his research! By the way do you also research many religions?

[@Rogstin]

@@jagger_claw The many god's, divine hiddeness, and the problem of evil were I think my main driving force. So having grown up in a time and place where god belief is still a majority belief, I thought, well maybe someone else got it right. I had the internet at my fingertips, so I began looking around, trying to fill what I thought was a god shaped hole, as it were. I suppose I really went Christian -> Deist -> Agnostic -> Atheist in my identification, over a period of a few years. After realizing the geography and communication problems of religions, I stopped caring about them. Then figuring if a god was there, they clearly didn't want to be worshiped. I had prayed often, both serious and silly things, personal and global. I was lucky, in that my family was never diehard about it. I remember Sunday school and seeing the other kids singing songs and moving around and thinking, "These guys are weird." We attended church for the grandparents benefit really, and outside of it we didn't really engage in it. It was easy and cost me nothing to deconvert, though I wouldn't really deconstruct for years.

[@jagger_claw]

@@RogstinWhat is this problem of evil if you don't mind me asking?

[@stevenosullivan6515]

Thanks again Alex

[@Hans-qi3wq]

Perfect analysis - thank you.

[@c.a.t.732]

Ms. Ali's assertion that "woke ideology" is determined to destroy civilization is puzzling to me. Destroy civilization? Who has the time and energy to do that? It sounds exhausting.

[@pansepot1490]

Stale right wing talking point.

[@saintsblitzazoe3346]

These hyperboles are common in today's discourse. Perhaps youre new in politics?

[@c.a.t.732]

@@saintsblitzazoe3346 Perhaps you're new to sarcasm?

[@davidlikesdrums]

saw your videos about chat gpt the other day and i love your content it always is so interesting to me i’ve always loved thinking about all different views on stuff and why people think what, cheers for the interesting content (:

[@danthelambboy]

On subjects which can affect our individual feelings of security we don't typicaly believe in what is objectively truthful, instead when we believe something to be true we believe that a story has some power which produces benefits, so we believe the power of certain stories to be true. Those who believe in seeking objective truth and delaying just believing in stories with power tend to have witnessed a great deal of security in their life which has allowed them to not commit to their biases so early on and recognise that there is a greater value tk be had through progressibg objective truths. I would say the athiestic and scientific mind is a luxury of our long term environment and circumstance.

[@taanielherberger-brown5198]

U rock the house bro!

[@fukpoeslaw3613]

I regularly call myself an Islamophobe, but now I see I might actually be a Muslim: I think some mosques are the most beautiful buildings ever and the arabic language is one of the most beautiful ones. Alhamdulillah!!

[@thescoobymike]

If Robert Barron was a Muslim

[@StanbyMode]

Lmao

[@solehthesandmonkey]

I like your point and you're not an islamophobe if you have a rational fear of islam.

[@Sticklemako]

Lol none of that beauty comes from islam but the ethnic pagan skill of the people muslims converted.. see what buildings islam builds once the society gets more fundamentalist? Garish and ugly

[@balern4]

Good one

[@Nathouuuutheone]

I find it strange that she attributes all those things to christianity as if they are nowhere else. And that she paints such a narrow picture of atheism as if it is entirely incapable of handling any of humanity's issues... To me, she's really just trying to uses boxes in simplistic ways to avoid having to face harder questions. She wants a simple solution to her fears, and she thinks wearing a label she misrepresents is the way to do it. I really don't know how I feel about that, but I know it's not positive.

[@dulls8475]

If there is no God and you are the result of being made by the universe (Who made the universe) all conclusions reached are just the result of random chemical reactions.

[@lVideoWatcherl]

Do not forget to mention that, as Alex also points out in the video, atheism has no belief-tenets. There is no ideology of atheism - there is _atheistic_ ideology, but atheism itself is not an ideology, it is a statement of non-belief in a specific truth claim. So to say that "atheism fails" merely illustrates that she failed to understand what she was actually identifying as. There are a number of ideologies which don't involve a god-claim, yet she seems to not even have considered any of those, since she didn't even mention one?

[@Hamdad]

It does a good job of packaging together, presenting & popularizing those ideals, even if it didn't invent them

[@JohnCamacho]

It seems she didnt have any atheist friends in her inner circle who would have tempered her expectations of atheism a bit.

[@Dan16673]

Atheism isnt a thing. Just not a thing

[@glennpeterson1357]

Brilliant. Nailed it. As usual!

[@domacleod]

Mate the only reason I subbed to you was because i wanted to be notified when you posted the full interview with that a-hole who thought an interview was a monologue. That was more than a month ago. I think two months by now. When is that coming?

[@mithunbalaji8199]

Nobody has ever managed to explain what it is they are longing after in religion, but it is quite clear what they are trying to escape from- this earthly vale of tears, one's untenable existential situation. - Peter Wessel zapffe

[@cuongnguyenviet3417]

Yes, we Christians are hopeless people, those who realized that we are hopeless. That's why we put our trust in the God who created all things and in the Lord Jesus who God raised from the dead. For it is written: “Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11‬:‭28‬-‭30‬ ‭ESV‬‬

[@arthurpeters1996]

@@cuongnguyenviet3417Why did you choose to do that to resolve your hopelessness rather than doing anything else?

[@Albatrossamongus]

@@cuongnguyenviet3417And that is why we pity you all.

[@tgenov]

A set of values that work in practice. A way to navigate life that doesn’t devolve into dysfunction.

[@jagger_claw]

​@@arthurpeters1996I think the real question is how hopelessness is felt?

[@ronaldmendonca6636]

...so, listening to Choral music is being a Christian? 😆 Have her listen to some Contemporary Christian music and watch her transform back into an Atheist faster than Bruce Banner turning into The Hulk.

[@eccentriastes6273]

I wonder if liking George Harrison's religious tunes makes me a Hindu.

[@ronaldmendonca6636]

@@eccentriastes6273 😆

[@donnievance1942]

I listened to all kinds of music, and now I have a multiple personality disorder.

[@drexelrep]

I hope she ends up on this channel someday for a discussion with Alex. Would be a terrific opportunity to exchange ideas.

[@tylerholston4063]

Hey Alex, great video! I am curious if you have seen Slavoj Zizek talk about his Christian Atheism.

[@jazzman2516]

Ayaan’s entire article is an appeal to ignorance, a fallacy which I am getting a bit tired of hearing from religious people. Just because an atheist can’t tell you the meaning of life, doesn’t mean you know it. Truth is far more powerful than faith as a provider of purpose, if people would only listen to and appreciate it more. For starters, you have within you the superpower to rationalise, to confront problems head-on and put before the Supreme Court of your mind all the troublesome, undesirable impulses that you may feel. The origin of this power is of no importance, just the fact that you even have it is a precious truth. If you need something to worship to get by, worship yourself! You are an incredibly sophisticated, unique and beautiful organism. With an understanding of truth, of what is up to you and what isn’t (particularly with respect to questions of providence, a matter on which we are all agnostic whether we like it or not), you will be able to take whatever comes in life with complete open-mindedness, and you will achieve ultimate functionality and contentment. And in the process, you will be a greater force for good on society than you would be if you were led by any ideology. In fact, if more people lived like this, our world would be all the better for it. If this does not appeal to you, dear reader, then ask yourself whether you truly care about and admire yourself and your species, or whether you would rather remain an outlaw of nature until the day you die.

[@sanstheblaster2626]

This video perfectly encapsulates why everyone who thinks Alex might convert one day have fundamentally misunderstood him in my opinion, because everyone who suggests so seems to think that it would happen the same way Ayaan's conversion happened. The problem is that, even IF Alex came to Ayaan's exact conclusion, he would not think of himself as a Christian. He truly seems to care only about the truth of Christianity's statements. You are free to quote me on this one. It'll be quite intresting to see how this comment will age.

[@bike4aday]

I agree with this. If Alex "converts" it'll be after some pretty significant experiences that completely change his worldview. And not just change his worldview to something he already understood, but rather a completely new one he never had before that doesn't conflict with any older ones. And he may find himself in a strange place where he doesn't feel comfortable with either label, atheist or theist. I think that's "best case" scenario if it ever did happen. He certainly won't be becoming an evangelical Christian overnight because he had a fun conversation and listened to some good music haha! For him it's about truth and I'm on board with that too.

[@vibz8346]

​@@bike4aday Perhaps you mean deist (to some capacity)? Also, no one has an internally consistent framework, in the fullest sense of the word, so worldviews are always susceptible to caving-in (i.e. drastic change isn't always 'necessary').

[@periruke]

Conversion is personal thing, much broader than pure intellectual effort to conquer all true propositions. Ayaan knew all the same facts about world before and after conversion, but now she is able to see them in new light. What exactly changed her mind,or would change Alex and rest of us in that regard is mistery.

[@agginswaggin]

Converting is a scary thing to do publicly. It might take some time before the public finds out

[@marioluigi9599]

You're absolutely correct. Alex's destiny is the hellfire, since he rejects the Lord's prophets and signs

[@MyContext]

If there is no distinction to be made between whether an individual believes or not with regard to their general behavior, then the distinction has no practical merit. However, I hear distinctions in how things are presented and how issues are approached with the continuum of belief being expressed in the continuum of presentation.

[@MusingsFromTheJohn00]

In understanding this subject better I believe it is good to understand the development of intelligence and how "religion" and "faith" are requirements within that development. But, this also means understanding the more base underlying meaning of "religion" and "faith". A religion, removing the specifics of any one religion, is a "Worldview" which is a requirement for a developing intelligence to seek to understand the world that intelligence lives in. At the root of a worldview is learning about the world an intelligence lives within in order to better achieve things that intelligence wants to achieve, like living, procreating, socializing, having a better than worse life, etc. Improving that worldview is a very powerful way to improve the life of any intelligence, thus we have a great many life forms on Earth which have been improving their worldviews. I know, you might not be aware of or believe other non-human life on Earth has worldviews, but they do. They are just much more primitive than human worldviews. As human worldviews developed, to improve them naturally involves seeking to under understand how the world works, why the world works, how we should behave in the world to achieve the things we want to achieve, etc. Science is in fact a form of religion, a special religion that tries to focus very specifically in a careful way to better achieve the goals of making a better improving worldview that allows us to achieve the things we want to achieve. A religion which becomes stuck, that ceases to develop and improve, that is not a good worldview, because it cannot improve. Mind you, a religion should not be too easy to change, because if it was to easy to change it would be too easy to lose benefits gained, so the improvement to a religion should be something done slowly and carefully making sure the change is beneficial. If you look historically at religions they were changing all the time, but in more recent times we have developed dogmatic highly structured organized religions which are seeking very strongly to NOT change and thus NOT improve themselves. Those are bad religions just from the standpoint they have stopped improving themselves. Another thing frequently talked about with religion is faith. Those who typically claim they are not religious, even though they are, also claim one's beliefs in how the world works should not be based upon faith. But this is flawed. Faith is actually fundamental to all intelligence life and there are two kinds of faith that all intelligence life must have, "Sighted Faith" and "Blind Faith". Sighted faith is the belief that what one senses is true is in fact true. Blind faith is the belief that despite my senses saying one thing is true I think what I sense is false and that something I am not sensing is true. All intelligence, all religions, all worldviews, including science require both "Sighted Faith" and "Blind Faith". However, one has to learn how to balance these two types of faith in a healthy manner. This is something that the religion/worldview of science has excelled at in comparison to any other religion/worldview. Because of that, science has transformed humanity. Now, when we look at religions like Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Mormonism we have dogmatic organized religions which are stuck in not improving themselves and in denial of their being a far better far more successful religion in terms of providing a worldview which actually improves our ability to achieve the things we want to achieve.

[@sonoftheway3528]

I think it's quite obvious that she is becoming a "cultural Christian", without really saying it. I've met plenty of people who will say "I'm Muslim" or "I'm Jewish" etc while actually being atheist in belief. Only upon further questioning will they clarify that they are only "cultural muslims" etc. I don't think Ayaan would admit this because of her belief that Christianity may be a bulwark against worse ideologies (She has previously promoted Christianity as a better alternative to Islam) and therefore may want to genuinely support the spread of true Christianity. I think even Richard Dawkins has referred to himself as a "cultural Anglican" or "secular Christian". And there's nothing wrong with gatekeeping inherently. Gatekeeping has been wrongly stigmatized as ALWAYS being bad. It definitely can be bad but, it certainly is not in every context or scenario. I don't think arguing that someone who doesn't believe the core tenants of Christianity isn't REALLY a Christian is a negative form a gatekeeping. It's just preserving the meaning of words. Also, not really important but.... What's wrong the "The Five Pillars". How is it any different than 4 Horsemen? It's a reference to a popular religion in the same way. Edit: Anyway, it would be very interesting to get her on your podcast!

[@matejanosov2584]

I agree with you on the gatekeeping. Suppose I have a toy Lamborghini at home, and you knew this, and I would tell people I have a Lamborghini, you wouldn't be wrong to point out that it's not an actual car.

[@sonoftheway3528]

@@matejanosov2584 Exactly. Gatekeeping being good/bad/neutral is entirely dependent on the reason for the gatekeeping.

[@dulls8475]

The thing about Jesus is that He is either God or a liar etc. We have no other strength. Half Christian does no one any good.

[@lVideoWatcherl]

@@dulls8475 That's not even true. Jesus, likely actually named Yeshua, could himself not even have preached about anything supernatural. It's _likely_ that he did, if he existed (which is not even definitively known, also only _likely),_ but considering the demonstrable falsehoods and clear unreliability of the bible in any historical matter, and adding on to that that all accounts of the Jesus-character are non-contemporary, it could just be that his words/teachings weren't even correctly recorded. That in fact it isn't Jesus who was wrong (though I think that is the case, if he existed), but the authors of the books writing about him - because they of course weren't actually witnesses to anything Jesus said themselves. So no, Jesus doesn't even have to be a god or a liar. The question has to be whether the _claim_ that Jesus is god is true, there's a significant difference between the two, and even if he wasn't that wouldn't automatically mean the person the character was modeled after was actually a liar (although I believe that to be true, if such a person existed).

[@brotherjohnnyxXxX]

​@@dulls8475If Jesus is God, why did he 'supposedly' cried out "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" ?

[@ahahaha3505]

It's hard not to conclude that what her declaration amounts to is that truth is not politically adequate, i.e. that 'noble lies' must be employed to bring about socially beneficial outcomes.

[@iswaswillbe567]

I'm Wiccan. I believe in a personal pan(en)theism inspired by classical and neo-platonism, as well as Heidegger's idea of Being. I know that my beliefs are niche, but I can never find any arguments that challenge them. Is pan(en)theism a topic that you might like to discuss, deconstruct, and critique?

[@stefanheinzmann7319]

I never saw the point in pantheism. How does it improve or explain anything?

[@iswaswillbe567]

@@stefanheinzmann7319 This is just me, but the universe isn't a sum of parts, but one whole. This what a neoplatonist would call The All or The One. We are not separate from the universe, we are the universe. Because we are conscious, the universe must be conscious in some way; consciousness is a part of the fabric that makes up the universe. When people talk about God, or YHWH, or Allah, or Brahman, or what have you, I think we're all generally talking about the same thing. There's a higher element of existence that we can't quite put our finger on, so we all interpret it in different ways. From here, I'll just call it The One. All existence emanates from The One, or The 1. The 1 splits into 10 and 11, which then split into 100 and 101, and 110 and 111, and so on ad infinitum, creating all possible worlds. As for how this might improve anything, it may improve your capacity for compassion for others by realizing that we are all One. Kindness to another is ultimately kindness to yourself and to "God."

[@constructenglish1]

Alex, thank you for your work. Can you give your thoughts on the Gaza war?

[@a.i.l1074]

Thoughtful as always, Alex. I think every Christian was thinking "what about that CS Lewis line?" and then you referenced it. One large piece of info that you may not have known though: In her interview with Unherd, Ali explains that her actual conversion was due to a religious experience which helped her change her relationship with alcohol. This is evidence which one can argue away, but it's exactly the type of proof which you say would convert you when you speak about divine hiddenness. I also think it is valid to discuss the ethical, aesthetic, political, etc ramifications of a belief system when discussing its veracity, but I can expand on that if people disagree.

[@nickhanne1716]

Absolutely right. The interview on Unherd expresses much of her struggle in searching at an individual level for meaning and then discovering quite accidentally God.

[@metadragon6209]

I could say that any book’s set of values allows us to combat nihilism and political threats, but this certainly doesn’t mean that I have created a new religion based around this book

[@Guizambaldi]

I had a similar experience as,perhaps, Ayaan. I was an atheist that had strong values that fell as soon as I started to consider nihilism seriously. And I failed to be an active nihilist. So despair took me and I had a very small period of return to Christianity, until I felt very silly and was forced to reconsider the validity of moral truths. I still somewhat struggle with values.

[@Thedimensionalwarrior]

Ideologies such as existentialism, humanism, deism, Buddhism, spiritualism, all attempt to fill the emptiness of nihilism without resorting to dogmatic or ridiculous ideas

[@CSUnger]

Try struggling with virtues, instead.

[@thatcandont]

Blows my mind

[@warptens5652]

If someone avoids walking under ladders because of fear of falling tools, we wouldn't call them superstitious. Even though their behaviour is the same as the superstitious behaviour. But if someone acts like christians act, in that they like music and dislike murder, somehow that makes them a christian?

[@andrewede7154]

If it can be demonstrated that Peterson or Ali fail to act in a Christian manner (whatever that could be), does it then follow that they are not Christian? Certainly Peterson's position does away with salvation by faith. It would also be interesting to hear Ali define "woke" which as far as I can tell simply means "anything I find objectionable."

[@EnglishMike]

The fact that she uses the term "woke ideology" is a dead giveaway that this is a move of political convenience.

[@dulls8475]

@@EnglishMike To simplistic.

[@davegold]

Woke can mean anything objectionable but so can the word injustice and there are no shortage of people using the term injustice.

[@adamgates1142]

I always assumed acting like you were a Christian meant following the teachings of Christ as closely as possible. The day I see these people give away their money away and serve the poor is the day I will believe them...

[@Arphemius]

No, woke just describes social justice ideology. It just replaced sjw when people got bored of saying that.

[@TheHeuristicHeretic]

I mentioned this in a comment below. Life is under no obligation to give you purpose or meaning. Those things are entirely up to the individual. Life gives you the tools and opportunities, what you do is up to you.

[@michaeldyck6833]

Alex, I really enjoy your podcasts. I’m a Unitarian Universalist of Mennonite background. Would you concede that your criteria of what constitutes a “real” Christian would exclude the vast majority of Christians who have lived since Constantine? It seems to me that Ayan is a Christian for the same reason as the vast majority of Christians who have ever lived, more or less accurately summed up by you: it is adaptive, for persons and societies. It displaced paganism among us Europeans for that reason. Only a small minority of Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, share your (Jesuitical?) enthusiasm for religion as reflective of “truth” - I certainly would not affirm the things you see as central to a Christian confession, but I am a Christian, because it works.

[@Mentesestoicas_]

My problem with anything in life regarding belief or opinions is that, there’s no free will and you can even see in some ppl how much they are affected directly by previous things in life that end up on their belief systems and opinions. Because of this, is boring af to discuss with those more “affected” by causality, cause they are way less incline to change opinions or even consider a different point of view.

[@20july1944]

You don't have free will?

[@Mentesestoicas_]

@@20july1944 Nobody have. Every action, though or desire is a consequence of previous actions, thoughts or desires. Ex: you only comment here cause I posted the comment, I only posted cause he posted the video and so on. This are the bigger examples but there’s small ones like the fact you cannot know what you going to think before your brain thinks cause conscientiousness is the consequence of the brain process. He have a video about some of this on his channel if you get interested.

[@20july1944]

@@Mentesestoicas_ Do you have a conscience? How could you have a conscience without free will?

[@Mentesestoicas_]

@@20july1944 Is like a computer, your brain is the hardware, your conscience is the software. Is the product of the hardware processing. The software is made to feel as if could live without the hardware but even this feeling is a product of the hardware working.

[@20july1944]

@@Mentesestoicas_Do you have a conscience?

[@tillposer]

Excellent exposition. It reminds me of a conversation/ discussion I had with my father. He is a moderate European Protestant, nothing evangelical, while have been atheist for nigh onto 50 years now. When we argued about the trappings and failings of organised religion in my neck of the woods, he made the argument, that Christian values underly all of our culture and so the Christian values are the common denominator that even atheists cleave to and that for going forth together it is necessary to gather similar-minded allies. Ali's arguments sound like that. They certainly have none of the "I found Jeebus"-trappings, but come over as thoroughly cultural deliberations and arguments. At most it can be interpreted as "I feel at home in this value system and expect it to succour me, so I take on the label it carries."

[@ericb9804]

Your father may not realize it, but Ali certainly does, that the values that are the "common demonstrator" of western civilization come from the Enlightenment. The fact that The Enlightenment occurred in a Christian culture may or may not have been a coincidence, but either way, its to The Enlightenment that we owe our fealty, not to Christianity. I also don't mind acknowledging that Western values are worth defending and are under threat from foreign powers that don't share those values. But her appeal to Christianity is not just an acceptance of these value, it is a call-to-arms for all her "fellow Christians." She knows that Christians are more likely than atheists to join her in the trenches of a culture war.

[@jeremias2975]

The Lord is not trying to "trap" you. Sin already has you trapped. God is trying to rescue you from sin and it's terrible consequences, through every believer that preached the gospel to you, every gospel message you ever heard or read.

[@tillposer]

@@jeremias2975 I think you should peruse a dictionary and meditate on the various meanings of the word "trapping", you seem a bit off the mark. And of course if there is no such thing, it cannot "trap" me, so all is good, however, I don't think you are in any position to give me gratuitous advice, so there. I usually say that organised religion consists of stuffy men in stuffy rooms, poring over stuffy tomes of dubious origin and value, gleefully conceiving malignancies against women. Why does this image pop up when reading your verbiage?

[@jeremias2975]

@@tillposer I’m Protestant, so I’m not fond of organised religion in the sense of pope, roman catholic church tradition (the book with extra-biblical doctrines) or idolatry to humans or human institutions. I believe every person should read the Bible with their own eyes if possible. About my position, it’s by the grace of God the same of all my brothers and sisters in Christ, believers in the Lord Jesus: light of the world, salt of the earth, ministers of reconciliation, ambassadors for Christ, chosen race, royal priesthood, holy nation, people for his own possession, children of God, heirs of God, fellow heirs with Christ, lords, kings, called, chosen and faithful. We don’t deserve this great dignity but God doesn’t always give people what they deserve. The point I want to make now is that Christian values are good for society and all but just valuing them is not remotely satisfactory, because there’s much more than this life on the balance: there’s eternal life. The only way to avoid hell and enter Heaven is through faith in the Savior, Lord Jesus the Christ: “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Was Eve DESIGNED to sin? To miss the mark. Because that is ALL sin is. A mark, missed. NOT A force... not a god. Not a rival. And it is not 'rebellion'. Adam and Eve barely knew good from bad. And Eve's own senses helped encouraged her, to eat the fruit. And then we are born... usually... fully unaware: of which and how many gods, exist, or creators (including Adam and Eve, who more or less count) Or 'self evident' deities. And of nature being 'fallen' or hijacked, or forced under, a 'Glass Darkly'. Also, we are 'natural men' or 'spiritually dead' thanks to TWO people. Doing what any halfwit could have predicted they'd do. And then we get lectured about the 'fickleness of man'. By the one who designed that trait? Even if, in potentia. But there is no such thing as surprising potential, to an OMNISCIENT being. And that goes double, for Arch Angels... having suicidal, delusional, pride, too. So was Satan, designed, to sin? Or many of his victim angels, to be misled... so easily, by him? Who then goes on, to keep many powers... roam quite freely, or ask, about Job? Just... think, for a moment. Also, is he 'spiritually dead'... and how? And who was going to rescue people from the horrible consequences, of Leviticus 25:46? That took 350 d*mn years... in Christendom. to finally bury the worthless thing! Or Deuteronomy 21:11? Well, luckily, that one, died out quicker. The Curse of Ham's line... though... as an idea, still lasted a bl**dy long time. Pair it with Leviticus 25... and it becomes, really, dangerous. As is Matthew 27:25. Especially with a lack, of timeless leadership... in 'the Church'. Whatever, that now means. Or Christendom. And sure, that may be the fault of man. Is Romans 13:1, too? And do all have equal free will to pick and choose, who to trust, or follow? Especially, since many of us could not even READ... for centuries. Meantime, all angels could choose - all. None got born 'in Adam' like we were. Now - this may be 'too Catholic' to you... but these ideas die out hard. And depending on what books inquiring would be converts read, may pop up, again. Also, the day I call 2 Samuel 24 'love'... is the day I get, a frontal, lobotomy. Meantime, let's consider entering heaven the way Satan did, to talk about Job. And not the Romans 8:30, Revelations 13:8, manner. I do not DO - rigged, systems.@@jeremias2975

[@madimadisofian]

Hey alex , I would be interesten to know your Economic views on the status quo that we live in. It may not be in your field of expertees but im sure you have thoughts about capitalist and socialism in general.

[@onedividedsoul]

Good vid

[@scratcho.9980]

A prime example of someone being honest and admitting to being a Christian solely for the political and societal benefits. To give credit, it was also to escape the despair she got from being nihilistic. But it is difficult to decide which reason came first. She might become the most relatable Christian ever, not honestly believing much of or at all what the Bible claims, but simply using the Religion as the comforting crutch that it is AND the incredible influence it gives you in America simply because it is America's most popular religion.

[@Account.for.Comment]

She just a fraud and fleesing the Christians, now that many of fake expertise on Islam had been debunked.

[@russellward4624]

But then she's not actually a Christian. A Christian believes Jesus is God. If you don't believe that you're not a Christian. Western society isn't Christianity.

[@XXTheSadisticlemurXX]

​@@russellward4624I mean, far more goes into the religion than believing in Jesus. And most Americans, even those who claim they're christian, don't follow the majority of the rules laid out in the Bible. Personally, and this is anecdotal, but groups like the jehovah's witnesses and ultra-fundamentalists are the closest things to "christians" as we can get.

[@20july1944]

@@russellward4624 Agreed, Hirsi isn't a Christian (at least not yet) but as a Christian I certainly hope (and have prayed) that all this exposure to Christianity will lead her to a real surrender/acknowledgement of Jesus as Lord.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

she IS being reasonable i think, but also daft.

[@jessewinn5563]

I'm a Christian and I think you made some solid points in your summary at the end.

[@nelsoncherrier3855]

Can we have more Christians like you and less Christians who insult and tell people they are going to Hell for not believing in your God and/or doing things they don't like?

[@dulls8475]

As an atheist and a by product of a random universe he has no points. Just on going chemical reactions. Remember Alex has said many nasty things about the Christian God.

[@nelsoncherrier3855]

@@dulls8475 Being an atheist has nothing to do with believing we are a believing we are a byproduct of a random universe. Stop pretending you know what you are talking about, dont pretend that you do. Now we know the fact that you are judgemental and that you make baseless and factualy incorrect assumptions.

[@israelgulley9104]

Indeed, are we so sure the universe is random? At least at the macro level I’m not convinced it is. Indeed at the biological level at the very least I think their is very strong evidence it is not random at all

[@vgsdomingo1]

​@@dulls8475Yahweh has said enough nasty things in his self inspired good book but its always good to point it out.

[@thugson1166]

This is litterally the idea I've been arguing with myself about.

[@davidpdiaz]

Well done! A nicely stated point of view. I agree completely that the fundamental criterion of being a Christian is more than adopting a set of values. The same can be said of church attendance and tithing.

[@MrDylanHole]

I politely disagree. Will you strip me of my title as a Christian?

[@davidpdiaz]

@@MrDylanHole Haha. Of course not. What do you think is the fundamental criterion of becoming a Christian?

[@MrDylanHole]

@@davidpdiaz To reflect the heart of Christ and to follow his teachings.

[@davidpdiaz]

@@MrDylanHole So you think that this is the minimal condition for one to be a Christian? What about believing the gospel and placing one’s trust in Christ? Isn’t following his teachings a form of salvation by works?

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Whilst He, who could be by every roadside in history, that the Good Samaritan, could not... Sat out... the slave trade... many schisms, and wars; also, the blood libel, upon medieval Jews... and soon after, the Inquisition? Or... the many, many starving people... in Ethiopia, Darfur, and Somalia, today? Well, that's certainly, much to reflect on. Still - at least we have John 14:12. Now if only He'd taught you it, as something more... than a passing trick? A bit of party flair. To 'inspire belief'. In the unchanging (hahahaha) character... of YHWH? Meantime... enjoy the teaching, of Matthew 10:37.@@MrDylanHole

[@kidslovesatan34]

You can expect a book from her, one that sells vey well to a certain demographic and handsome profits for Ayaan. Not to mention the book tour and lecture circuit.

[@angusmcculloch6653]

Do you think that's bad?

[@kidslovesatan34]

@@angusmcculloch6653 As she doesn't appear to be sincere, yes I do.

[@angusmcculloch6653]

@@kidslovesatan34 Why would convince you she is sincere? If I write a book about the power of capitalism, even though I have doubts about capitalism, would that be bad? If so, why?

[@kidslovesatan34]

@@angusmcculloch6653 The fact that she mentions Jesus name only once and her concerns principally are around Islam, China, Russia and Iran.

[@kidslovesatan34]

@@angusmcculloch6653 She's a RW culture warrior these days and her conversion story is not a full throated endorsement of Christianity has left many people skeptical of her conversion.