Ayaan Hirsi Ali: From New Atheist to Christian convert

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UnHerd's Freddie Sayers sits down with former New Atheist Ayaan Hirsi Ali to discuss why she now considers herself to be Christian.
Read the accompanying article: unherd.com/2023/11/why-i-am-n...
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// TIMECODES //
00:00 - 01:53 - Introduction
01:53 - 05:00 - Ayaan on the attacks of October 7th
05:00 - 07:40 - Free Speech vs. Hate Speech
7:22 - 10:17 - Ayaan’s journey to Western Liberalism and New Atheism
10:17 - 13:31 - Can Judeo-Christian traditions save Western civilisation?
13:31 - 15:47 - Ayaan U-turns on secular schools
15:47 - 21:00 - Spiritual bankruptcy and a journey back to Faith
21:00 - 24:45 - How should those of us who are not religious interpret this message?
24:45 - 26:14 - Part II Q&A, how should a majority secular society embrace Christianity?
26:14 - 29:47 - What does British society have to offer Gen Z?
29:47 - 31:43 - A question on multiculturalism
31:43 - 33:18 - Has atheism failed?
33:18 - 35:37 - Were we all created by God?
35:37 - 36:14 - Concluding thoughts
#UnHerd #AyaanHirsiAli #Christian

[@zenadover1308]

I am an x Muslim who believe in Jesus! I love Ayan so much because we came from the same background. Read all her books I never thought I will hear this from her . Thank you Jesus for bringing my sister home!

[@onnit3785]

I am muslim who was almost ex-muslim becomer. Thank god for islam and for being a muslim.

[@BT-qs7id]

Peace be with you 🌎 ✝️

[@omarespinosa9826]

​@onnit3785 stay mad, she's a Christian, she's on the right track now

[@onnit3785]

@@omarespinosa9826 Right track? Ok!!!

[@omarespinosa9826]

@onnit3785 yes she's on right track finally 🙌

[@MrJillybill]

I am one proud and jubilant Cushite Christian from Kenya of what the Lord has done in my sister Ayaan's life. Praise the Lord Jesus!

[@nicfarrow]

Great! So tell us why she doesn’t talk about Jesus at all. You should be very disturbed by that.

[@MMY449]

Perhaps for the same reason why many Western thinkers, see themselves as Christians as mere cultural products. Could be very much a matter of cherry-picking and discarding rigid and quite embarrassing unphilosophical stances, alternatively a question of self-preservation by connecting to a more conservative root in the defence against degenerate liberalism. Tell me, do you find more similarities with a Christian in Africa, than you would’ve had with an atheist who happens to be a countryman?

[@stanleyrobson4622]

You obviously didn't listen to the whole thing mate. @@nicfarrow

[@dawnmancaloriankeebals4262]

​@@stanleyrobson4622You do realise she doesn't believe in a God, right? You're so quick to jump to the conclusion that she's now a believer when her statement proves otherwise. She has converted to Christianity for political reasons.

[@stanleyrobson4622]

Is that a fact? You must be privy to info I don't have. I take what she says at face value and I have nothing to lose by it.@@dawnmancaloriankeebals4262

[@carmanconrad8684]

Ayaan is truly a beautiful, intelligent soul who is a genuine seeker of truth.

[@MonikaBardell]

She is, you found the right words for it 👍🏾

[@cinikcynic3087]

I wonder what will be her next truth...

[@HarryNicNicholas]

or, confused. you're welcome to her.

[@createinmeacleanheartohgod6871]

@@cinikcynic3087 She has already found the ultimate Truth, and it's Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour, who was and is One with God the Father.

[@tubhikafir6787]

@@createinmeacleanheartohgod6871 Ultimate truth, my foot. Read The God Delusion. HIrsi is now officially a Rice Bag Convert. She too is gobbled up by Vulture Missionaries in their Xtian Ponzi scheme. What price she sold her soul? Pathetic.

[@andybluemanstrauss7819]

I always admired her. When she mentioned Jesus i had tears of joy for her! Congrats, welcome, sister Ayan Hirsi Ali!

[@HarryNicNicholas]

you may have missed the part where she hasn't mentioned the resurrection once, or that there is one true god, she is using you, but, you're welcome to her, she was muslim to begin with, and just hung out with the atheists for kicks, you gained a muslim, happy xmas.

[@AtheismActually]

btw, Jesus drowned babies (Genesis 7)

[@createinmeacleanheartohgod6871]

@@AtheismActually Explain, because all i know Jesus Christ saved me from my sinfullness. Atheists are not really brilliant people, most of them are just dumb to seek the Truth. And most of them can't even reason logically, they are just hateful people to those who beleive in Jesus.

[@kdskdkdkdk]

Nothing sells books like a newly converted atheist. No true Scotsman.

[@dfwherbie8814]

And the grift continues 😂 you ppl are gullible

[@Evertreynold]

As a Dutch Canadian I followed her journey from the Netherlands to America, purchased "Infidel" and fell in love with her character. intelligence, and conviction. Now that she calls herself a Christian, I am moved to tears of happiness. God bless you, Ayaan!

[@f0815Hi-cd1to]

Well since you are Dutch tou should know A reminder this lady came to Netherlands as a asylum seeker and become popular very quickly as she said what many liked and as it was a black person saying this, it was an easier political sell. So she came into national politics. It turned out that the claims she made while applying for asylum were false, also the personal circumstances she claimed were falsehoods. People can talk/claim may things but the prove lies in how they personally conduct themselves Anyhow her Dutch nationality was revoked. So she went to US, good thing for her in US the public/media aren't as informed or rather interested about what happens elsewhere. That suited her and she started her atheist thing. Now she speaks of Christianity, as if Judaism, Christianity and Islam don't share the same philosophical roots, yes the economic, historical, cultural, circumstances in the various countries of its followers differ immensely but that is political. Again, people can believe whatever they want, but how genuine it is, is questionable...

[@everttenbruggencate8625]

I know that after Theo van Gogh was murdered by Islamic terrorists after he made a movie called "Submission" that featured Ayaan. The Dutch government was very afraid of more terrorist uprisings and instead of standing up against these criminals they found a technicality in a refugees' immigration papers. I am ashamed of the Dutch governments' cowardice, but we see that kind of Islamic "'submission" throughout the western world and they are now reaping the consequences.@@f0815Hi-cd1to

[@beda3623]

​@@f0815Hi-cd1toone will never know, only God knows the hearts of people, and He has the solution for it 😉😊 People have different journeys, that is the beauty of Christ

[@SawsannUS]

​@f0815Hi-cd1to would elaborate..why her asylum claims are false? why did the provoke her citizenship? are you american ?

[@GMILES-hy5fg]

@@SawsannUS I am Dutch. What she did ; she gave the wrong name and birth date. Actually this was an action from her political enemies in the Netherlands. The name and birth date can be easily wronged cause in Somalia they don't have the birth register in shape as in Europe. They simply wanted to get rid of her. So that's why she fled to the US.

[@kaykwanu]

If I were not a Christian (I am), this would easily be one of the sanest interviews I've seen in a long while: peaceful and respectful.

[@vanessali1365]

Indeed "peaceful and respectful" unlike those 'attacking' her...

[@praveenwilson3478]

I too admire her but she went off the rails when she spoke disparagingly about the “woke” people. If she espouses a conversation with Islamists, then a conversation with the woke crowd is more than realistic. Just a thought!!

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@vanessali1365 no one is attacking her, they are pointing out that she hasn't once said "i believe the resurrection", she;s using you, like she used the atheists, for political gain, not cos she's fallen in love with christ - but you're welcome to her, she was a muslim to begin with, all you've gained is someone slightly confused at best and uses folks for gain at worst. a great coup for xianity eh?

[@georgehamilton7990]

​@@praveenwilson3478 From what I have seen, the “woke” can be as irrational and resistant to conversation as Islamists. I expect she has tried to talk sense with the “woke” and hasn't had success. Also just a thought!

[@praveenwilson3478]

@@georgehamilton7990thanks for responding. Ayaan is woke too. She woke up to the injustices of her Somalian childhood oppression in Holland. And she is one of the success stories of multiculturalism. So one soul saved anyway.

[@lynkahaar9549]

WOW! This is the first time that I've become aware of Aayan's conversion to Christianity. Faith is a personal journey and I pray that Aayan will continue to focus on the Lord. He's been walking alongside her up to this very moment. The Lord bless you Aayan. I couldn't be happier for you my sister in Christ 🙏❤️🙏❤️🙏❤️

[@uptoncriddington6939]

I admire this woman. How wonderful that she has found a path to faith by God’s grace.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

lol, so you admire confusion and flightiness? what next for her, buddhism?

[@SawsannUS]

​@@HarryNicNicholasthere s nothing on her shows confusion ..simply she is looking for inner peace and to communicate with higher power. she may turn to other believe..yes..but she won't published as she would loss, then, her wide admires. 😊

[@arjanvisser6658]

I”m so happy and moved to listen to Ayaan. I remember her when she was here in the Netherlands. The last thing I expected was that she would develop her selves to a Christian. But now I see it has happened I can not say how deeply thankful I am. I see no hate but a healed and very strong wise and kindhearted woman who brings so many to this fallen world. Praise the Lord forever and ever.

[@f0815Hi-cd1to]

Then you would also remember this. The lady came to Netherlands as a asylum seeker and become popular very quickly as she said what many liked and as it was a black person saying this, it was an easier political sell. So she came into national politics. It turned out that the claims she made while applying for asylum were false, also her personal circumstances she claimed were falsehoods. People can talk/claim may things but the prove lies in how they personally conduct themselves Anyhow her Dutch nationality was revoked. So she went to US, good thing for her in US the public/media aren't as informed or rather interested about what happens elsewhere. That suited her and she started her atheist thing. Now she speaks of Christianity, as if Judaism, Christianity and Islam don't share the same philosophical roots, yes the economic, historical, cultural, circumstances in the various countries of its followers differ immensely but that is political. Again, people can believe whatever they want, but how genuine it is, is very questionable...

[@Frost-uy9me]

​@@f0815Hi-cd1toYou are full of lies upon lies upon lies upon lies upon lies upon lies upon lies upon lies upon lies upon lies upon lies ad infinitum. Are you a Muslim?

[@billybob-vy4sw]

Sorry to break it to u but she I a charlatan- an opportunist who is now using her fake conversion to make more money

[@TheIndividualChannel]

This is so wonderful. We love Ayaan, many have prayed for her conversion to Christianity.

[@porfiriomunoz3675]

@theindividualchannel Imagine if God didn’t answer all those prayers! Thank the Lord she has been saved from Hellfire!

[@TheIndividualChannel]

@porfiriomunoz3675 God loves her and she is open to the truth. That's the recipe for becoming Christian.

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

What exactly are you referring to when you say the word God? What is God?

[@vanessali1365]

Crazyprayingmantis, very good question? That's a great start, you will find the answer that's in everyone's heart. I'm crazypraying for you.

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

@@vanessali1365 Is that supposed to be an attempt at answering my question?

[@Kris13893]

Years ago when i listened to Ayaan, i could feel the sorrow she had in her heart and i wanted to say sorry for her just because i had Jesus... Now i' m happy that finally He had 'caught' her❤️❤️❤️

[@juliemorgan-bullock6149]

I just knew this lady was going to become a follower of Christ. I've been listening to her for years now and could see her heart changing towards Jesus!

[@tammyhaywood1650]

I knew it as well! I've prayed that Jesus would touch her heart...and He did!! He is miraculous!

[@anjihc8797]

I sensed that as well

[@kooshanjazayeri]

judging by how it's going she is going to return to islam in about ten years or so

[@BrightsChannel]

I was so surprise to hear the conversion of Ayaan to christianity. I really held high regards to this sister even when she was an atheist. I haven't watch her videos for the last 2 years or so and today I heard such a good news of coming to Christ.

[@consylloyd7299]

Ms. Aiyaan Ali hit the hammer on the head when she said that is a higher standard and therefore we must aspire for it. The truth is truly Christian schools which embrace and espouse Biblical values will raise responsible, balanced and useful citizens of the world they live in.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

no, they don't, they raise more atheists if you hadn't noticed, people no longer want to be part of the bigots club (pew polls and gallup), there is a higher standard, but religion isn't it.

[@luv4da80s]

Such a strong example of speaking the truth with simple words and to the point. No sugar coating or dancing around anything. I admire this.

[@pramodwilson2354]

Absolutely

[@DontMessWithTX2024]

Amen! 🇺🇸🇨🇱🇮🇱🙏🏻❤️

[@caleblauber1441]

Excellent! A very intelligent woman who is one of the thought leaders in this world who has found Christ. She is a heroine to millions of people around the world. Very proud of you.

[@kirankaka55]

God bless this lady. She is growing more intelligent by the day as she learns the faith and Christian values.

[@stanleyrobson4622]

You could hear she tried her very best not to offend her "atheist" audience in how she conducted herself during the interview, but the fact is that she had an epiphany that the acceptance of the Judeo-Christian worldview (i.e. the bible) in the West established the most prosperous, free and just societies the world has seen and you just can't ignore that fact. And she is ALL in. God bless.

[@tevildo45]

She’s not a Christian. She doesn’t believe in the resurrection or christs divinity. In fact she never mentions Jesus in her article

[@stanleyrobson4622]

She publicly proclaimed her faith. Allow her to express herself as she sees fit and rather err on the side of kindness in your judgment of others. .

[@petercollingwood522]

You can however, attempt to understand the reasons for it. Which you evidently are incapable of doing.

[@twntwrs]

The Enlightenment and the Scientific Revolution in the West which pulled the rug out from under the stranglehold on thought held by the "Judeo-Christian Worldview" and debunked its supernatural superstitions is what established the most prosperous, free and just societies the world has seen.

[@rmdomainer9042]

That is opportunism. That is not spirituality.

[@karlbrettig9748]

What she is saying about challenging the colonization narrative in schools and universities and the failure of multiculturalism needs to be taken very seriously. The real issue is indeed our spiritual bankruptcy. Thank you Ayaan for openly sharing your journey with a world that so desperately needs to hear it at this critical time.

[@karlbrettig9748]

@@farhiyadirir8497 you need not fear Christianity. If you look into the life of its founder you will find he is very far from being either murderous or sectarian. He reached across cultural divides at the time as you can read in many places in the Bible including John chapter 4 if you have access. You will find believers in all cultures who have tasted the authentic spirituality of the living water Jesus talked about there. The reason we have human rights at all is because of the broad acceptance of his teachings as Tom Holland has evidenced in his recent book Dominion. Sure there have been abuses that he also documents in the book, but in the main, human rights and the benefits of civilization as we have known it over the past two thousand years have largely come from the foundations established by the one who was prepared to endure a cruel crucifixion in order that we might be freed from the darkness we see in us and all around us. Multiculturalism can work where an influential number follow that path but, in the main, many have ignored these foundations and the cut flower is beginning to wither.

[@vanessali1365]

Here is one such desperate person myself and I have to thank UnHerd for inviting her.

[@karlbrettig9748]

Will pray for you @@vanessali1365 and encourage you to pray that Jesus will reveal himself to you and also to the person who replied earlier but then must have deleted it.

[@henrythe8912]

Multiculturalism is not the evil of today. Everyone excepts muslims do assimilate and mix with the wider society either this generation or the next. The elephant in the room is political Islam teaching muslims to hate and kill all non muslims

[@f0815Hi-cd1to]

Why do you want a black person for a "certificate", sort of to "absolve of the sins..." 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@csk4j]

Wow.. I did not know Ayan went through this recent personal trauma.. Ive struggled with depression after getting MS.. depression is worse than any other symptom..I suffer but Christianity gives me the only hope in life

[@bipslone8880]

Christianity is just a drug used to escape reality.

[@topologyrob]

Sorry to hear of your difficulties

[@kebeleteeek4227]

But Christianity is in hopeless position when debating Islam ...

[@johnarnold8045]

Christ IS the ONLY hope!!!!!!!

[@bipslone8880]

@@johnarnold8045 Krishna is your only hope

[@Catherinetatethefkingliberty]

Thank you, UNHerd. I thoroughly enjoyed this particular interview of Ayaan Hirsi Ali

[@vivianaravot5483]

Thank you for sharing. May the Blessings of God bear fruit in everyone who hear Ayaan's story.

[@smelb84]

She's led to reality because she is genuine in her persuit and intellectually honest. I admire her ability to recognise and then admit where she was wrong about previous conclusions.

[@kooshanjazayeri]

she conflate religion with culture, politics, that's not really intellectual, now we will see in the future how honest she is in her pursuit of the truth... but when she thinks that "lets agree to disagree" is particular to Christianity and in contrast to Islam that is demonstrably false

[@jdk67]

Her bravery is admirable. I aspire to be more like her.

[@garypotter5569]

I have loved this woman for many years and have fervently hoped for this wonderful day!🤗

[@debracano6233]

Thank you so very much for this wonderful interview. I think that Ms. Ayaan spoke so very clearly about the danger we are in (of losing our societies to chaos & darkness) and how we might combat that danger, as well as explaining in a very moving way her spiritual despair and newfound, growing faith in the loving God of Christianity. I hope her words will be an impetus for others to discover or return to Christianity. It truly is our Hope and gives us true Purpose.

[@kevinrombouts3027]

It is so very encouraging to hear Ayuun's story so honestly and clearly expressed. As a Christian I believe that God is drawing masses of people from all manner of backgrounds to Him through Jesus Christ. Thousands and thousands of Muslims are turning to Jesus by way of vivid dreams in which they encounter Jesus. I believe that Jesus will travel every route to win hearts for himself. This is a promise in John's gospel that Jesus made when he said "When I am lifted up ( crucifixion/resurrection) I will draw all people to myself".

[@BigStar1972]

How does this stuff make any more rationale or evidentiary sense than woke stuff? Jesus is an abstraction and faith is the exact same sort of epistemology as "I was born in the wrong body".

[@msummabdullah]

Muslims already believe in and love Jesus as a prophet and messenger of God. Very few of them convert to Christianity because they already know the truth of Jesus; even Ayaan Hirsi Ali doesn't seem convinced of the beliefs; she just thinks it's a way to support "Western civilization." She was Muslim, then was sure that atheism was the truth, and when she no longer garners attention for being Christian, she'll probably try something else.

[@abdullahhussein3775]

Great discussion! I'm also like Ayan an ex-muslim and recent convert to the Christian faith

[@blakelevi4006]

Hallelujah! ❤

[@RoberinoSERE]

I’m so happy to hear She made the crossing from atheism to Faith in the Savior. What a journey from Islam to Atheism to Christ.

[@billybob-vy4sw]

Don't get too happy - she is fake - all she is interested in is $- another book will surely follow

[@maggieattenborrow6725]

Ayaan made the journey, SHE found the truth. It is only though learning we can make true decisions.

[@billybob-vy4sw]

@maggieattenborrow6725 she learned how to con people with her intellect and the way she speaks to their egos. All of this with the objective make a lot of money. Maggie nothing against you- but I have been following Ayaan for a while- she is a common con artist just like many of the prosperity preachers- who by the way have no spiritual bone in their bodies.

[@Western-Supremacist]

As a former Atheist, I completely understand her practical approach to Christianity. There's a deep need to rationalise our belief and a natural aversion to personal appeal.

[@Thatchxl]

As a current Athiest, I don't understand this. Even if (big if) having an altruistic god were preferable, that doesn't make it real. If it helped cure her depression, than good for her she can keep being a Christian. But I don't understand how wanting a figure like mythical Jesus to be real makes them real. Looking for what "feels right" leads different people to different conclusions and not all those can be true.

[@Western-Supremacist]

@@Thatchxl the only way I can explain it is to say that some truths are MORE true than others. Bear with me - A Dostoyevsky novel is a complete work of fiction. None of the characters or anything that happens is real and yet the books are full of deep moral truths about the nature of humanity. For a long time I viewed the bible this way. Though not factually true it still contains truth. I started studying traditional values, Christian values, and I found that universally the Christian values were superior to the secular values that were replacing them. Specifically marriage. Secular humanism has made marriage a worthless piece of paper at best, just a symbol of the love that two individuals have for each other. But it used to be more, it used to be better. And by eroding what a marriage is, all with good intentions of course, we have lessened our society. And I can prove this statistically. I can't be the only person that's noticed that the less religious we are becoming the worse our society gets. I came to understand that Atheism lacks morality. The only morality they have is the Christian one that they were raised in and that they take for granted assuming those morals to be self evident. But look at what's happened every time there has been a purely secular society. Starting with the French Revolution where reason was finally going to reign and a new age of enlightenment could begin. But morality descended into mere pragmatism in no time at all. Few people know about the holy war waged by Atheists in the name of Atheism and reason around Nantes in France. Nor of the atrocities that occurred. What if believing in God, whether He's real or not, improves your quality of life and improves society as a whole? Believing, as you say, wouldn't make Him real, but it's still a deeply profound truth in and of itself. And worth considering for any thinking person.

[@thesonsoflightt]

There are rational reasons to believe in God. And I think the church needs to grow in this area and be able to give rational reason for believing in God. I see where she is coming from. And pray she continues to grow spiritually and provide concrete spiritual reasons for believing in God also. I often move between rational and spiritual reasoning to prove existence of God and man’s need for God.

[@Neilhuny]

​@@Western-SupremacistNo human needs a deity to be moral, theist belief doesn't make marriage or anything else better. You are very confused

[@Western-Supremacist]

@@Neilhuny that's a statement not an argument. If you were to present a coherent argument I could explain to you why you're wrong, what you're missing and what you haven't adequately thought through. I'm not confused my friend, I have put the time in on this, your inability to present even a weak argument tells me you haven't. Take the statement you made that Theism doesn't make marriage better for example. ALL the evidence suggests you're wrong. Secularism has ruined the institution of marriage. The evidence for this is overwhelming. And whether God is real or not, if someone believes in Him and believes their marriage is sacred that actually makes it so. This is a truth and simply denying it is frankly pathetic. If I was to do the same with say evolution, you'd think I was an ignorant (maybe even stupid) theist. Well there you go.

[@lyralestranger]

I’m in my early 30s and this is the most interesting shift I’ve ever seen in my life and praise the Lord!!

[@nicfarrow]

So why is the name Jesus not mentioned even once and this whole great conversation? You are praising the Lord a little bit too early!

[@haydenwalton2766]

really - you should get out more

[@tevildo45]

In her article she doesn’t mention Jesus once

[@avtar1699]

She is a gritter. She jumps from one struggle to another. Her books are okay but I don't think Christians should trust her.

[@wilsclanmom]

She is on a journey. And she did mention Jesus. She talked about designing her own God as per her therapist’s suggestion, and realizing she had “created” Jesus.

[@SwingSiren]

I said it elsewhere and I will say it again. Welcome home. I am so sorry for all the pain you went through and yet grateful to be reminded of the treasure I have in my faith when someone else comes to it from far. Let's take care of our new sister and may many more follow her, inshallah ;)

[@colinmenniss]

I believe that becoming an atheist for many was a luxury belief. I include myself. We were able to reject the cornerstones of Abrahamic faiths along with the worst aspects of those faces which were the triggers for our rejection/objections. But now we find ourselves in a post truth world amplified by the new media and methods of communication. I now spend much more time thinking about the higher values and truths.

[@rmdomainer9042]

You do not become an atheist. Everyone is born an atheist.

[@scottward4316]

Very well said.

[@templekanu6740]

Islam is not an Ibrahimic religion. It is an Arab religion

[@dogsandyoga1743]

I definitely appreciate the luxury of not being killed. So I guess you're right...

[@davidhawley1132]

​@@templekanu6740It is a pretender to Abrahamic religion. Some skeptics believe that texts and traditions of Judaism and of a heretical Christian sect were appropriated by either Mohammed or early Islamic rulers to form the Qu'ran, which was only orally transmitted for a long time.

[@chadjohns6955]

I cannot wait for Ayaan's book regarding this. I have always known she was an amazing person, but now we are spiritually related, God bless her and Niall, and their children.

[@dawnmancaloriankeebals4262]

You do realise she doesn't believe in a God, right? You're so quick to jump to the conclusion that she's now a believer when her statement proves otherwise. She has converted to Christianity for political reasons.

[@chadjohns6955]

@@dawnmancaloriankeebals4262 I'll wait and see, you may be write, but it seems cynical to me, and nothing more. I will let her words and actions speak for themselves, but I believe, as a Christian myself, that she's on the path, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. She has never stricken me as a political game player.

[@bipslone8880]

@@chadjohns6955 If you listened to her you would understand that her reason is completely political.

[@chadjohns6955]

@@bipslone8880 Care to expand on that, or just throw it out there as if I didn't listen to the whole interview? If you have evidence, point to it, or I'll reserve my cynicism for after I have evidence, not sure why that's a problem. What I hear is her being on a journey, still holding onto who she was/is while exploring something new, I've done the same in my life many times, it's how you move forward but not blindly.

[@tunde6573]

​@@chadjohns6955I concur to your argument and explanation

[@user-rr7om4nt6v]

Love from Pakistani Christian

[@metgirl5429]

Ayaan is one of the first people I listened to years ago Started me on my journey of seeing the world with new eyes Are we awake yet🕊

[@bipslone8880]

I have no idea why she became a Christian other than she liked the story.

[@amsirap]

Then read her first book 'Infidel'@@bipslone8880

[@anilpinto1178]

If I could like this video a thousand times I would. The lady is brutally honest of her search and discovery. No frills or thrills, no political correctness - just the cold hard truth.

[@horseman6437]

I remember way back following Ayan talk and I found her to be a great Christian in the making. I prayed that God brings forth the worker to help the connection. To me its an answered prayer for which am eternally greatful that our sister born and brought up under the illusions of Islam finally is free from faithless illusions of atheists. Hirshi thanks for the the courage and honesty. Glory to God.

[@i.greene]

What a wonderful, honest, respectful conversation. Much love to you from Israel.

[@fromnzwhoisalsohalfindien]

Wonderful interview. Beautiful honesty and vulnerability ❤

[@pgeorge3573]

If there's anyone who had the right to be an atheist, it was Ayaan. And now she's become a Christian! God bless her on this marvellous adventure called faith!

[@bipslone8880]

The only reason western Christianity isn't as brutal as Islam is because we live by secular laws. The west does not follow the evil laws of the God of the Bible

[@sweeth2057]

I rejoice to see God’s Grace work in such a beautiful way through the testimony of our dear Sister becoming a believer in Christ. Been listening to her for a few years now. What a joy indeed.

[@simonegregoire2004]

Ayaan has been one of my biggest heroes since I read her book, “Infidel”, around 2005. What an extraordinary and courageous woman! I am amazed and full of joy that she has had a very similar journey to mine in going from atheism to Christianity. For me, as for her, it seems, Tom Holland’s “Dominion” revealed that we were already deeply Christian in nearly all of our most deeply-held convictions. And when the free fall off the cliff that looms at the end of secular humanism led to existential despair, I was astonished to find that Jesus was there all the time, ready to pull me out as soon as I said “I can’t do this alone anymore”. I was astounded to find that he was real. God is surely moving in profound ways amount us!

[@carlidoepke5131]

Freddie, thanks for another interesting, well-done interview! Love hearing things on topics like this! Prayers for Ayaan as she moves forward in her faith in Christ!

[@GuyWillson-bu6nz]

The Christianity defined in the Bible is certainly radical but it is also tolerant and loving. It requires a personal, unforced decision which involves admitting and turning from your personal sins. It invites, unforced, study of scripture by believing faith and this is how the transformation begins. Everything about true Christianity is voluntary. God has NO respect for the 'co-ersed' but He does look on the heart. Genuine Christians have no problem communicating about their relationship with Christ and the praise and worship they give Him is not procedural religion but from the heart.

[@itube027]

Love this woman. Not many who have grew up with Islam are brave enough to speak the truth.

[@jeanelizabethterry7583]

I imagine she still has a bodyguard.

[@kooshanjazayeri]

which "truth" are you referring to

[@BananaZen7]

Ayaan is a brave hero...a shining light for all people🌞

[@steinadleradler3431]

if she is shining light I wonder what darkness will be

[@victoriapearce9901]

The seeds are planted in her heart. Not all converts happen over night. Thats the beauty of Jesus. He is gentle, a still small voice, that woos us into a relationship with him. He never forces himslef on us. She is on a journey and i believe God has big plans for this brave woman.

[@JadeReal]

So beautifully said and you are right, Christ is gentle in His approach.

[@philtate1029]

​@@JadeRealexactly she's a deep thinker and she's processing

[@joshuabouley7674]

God bless all involved in this video. Thank you very much for the content. ❤️

[@boxerrebellion1509]

I am proud of you, sister Ayaan Hirsi Ali to choose the truth path ❤

[@YogGroove]

In normal times, I would say "good for her", but there's a crusade-ish clash of civilizations dynamic to this that leaves me uneasy. I don't like people grabbing for easy answers that often lead to a 10X acceleration of violence and suffering.

[@duncefunce1513]

That's because there's a clash of civilisations presently. What's 'crusade-ish'?

[@briankaul1201]

If seeing someone advocating for women's rights and converting to Christianity makes you uneasy, then it's good to ask why. I think you'll find that Ayaan isn't the problem; rather, the problem is that a large number of people claim that killing apostates is divine, and violently enforcing their religious taboos in secular countries is a valid extension of their most deeply held principles.

[@Erol_808]

Well said.

[@SirKenchalot]

The clash is here either way and it was Brought in by secular multi-cults governments who made huge assumptions that are not bearing out. Her strong denial of coercion is an argument against your point and I think if you try to take a neutral position in the 'clash' you'll just get swallowed up by the bolder and more aggressive of the two civilizations. Neutrality is not along-term solution.

[@Bamboodonutz]

She has traded one invisible best friend who guides her through life's travails for another, yet seems to not grasp the entrenched power that reactionary evangelicals have in US society, for example. She is fine with Christian schools indoctrinating kids about "the end times" but oh no, not those Islamic schools. Does she not know these crazy Christians are cheer-leading the war in Gaza right now so their messiah can return and all the Jews can convert???? Appallingly ignorant and hypocritical.

[@timosnieder4637]

Her book 'Infidel' is incredible.

[@msummabdullah]

Literally! As in "not credible." Because much of her life story, and most of what she says about Islam, is a pack of lies.

[@barrypeterson6725]

So thankful for your new found faith. There is a great verse that has become my favorite that I want to share with you. Romans 15:13. May the God of Hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in Him. So that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Blessings to you on your new journey of Christian faith!

[@dawnmancaloriankeebals4262]

You do realise she doesn't believe in a God, right? You're so quick to jump to the conclusion that she's now a believer when her statement proves otherwise. She has converted to Christianity for political reasons.

[@corinacaba]

@@dawnmancaloriankeebals4262 I think you should listen to what Ayaan said about it again. From the minute 34.

[@dawnmancaloriankeebals4262]

@corinacaba I suggest you take your head out of your backside and look at it with non-biased eyes.

[@corinacaba]

@@dawnmancaloriankeebals4262 I suggest you learn to talk with respect, it really helps when you want to address a point. You do not even know if I am an atheist or deist or something else, how can you know if I am biased or not?

[@dawnmancaloriankeebals4262]

@@corinacaba First of all, I am not talking, my words are written and you are reading my written words. As for respect, you write that you think I should, not that I should, only what you think. That is a lack of respect. So, my response was in keeping with your comment, "I suggest". As for if you're an athiest, diest, or whatever, that is irrelevant to the ignorance you have shown in this matter. Your ignorance tells me you have the view of a deist, not that that matters. Plus, I would never insult someone by labelling them an athiest. This word should not exist. After all, there is no word for someone who doesn't believe in fairies or unicorns.

[@heidivanderkwaak2335]

PTL, so happy to hear that all she was seeking for was found in Jesus Christ...what a journey🙏💕

[@nancikuba42]

It’s nice to hear someone being as truthful openly as she is. It’s what makes her so intelligent & I am her fan. I need to hear her make sense, since I’ve been hearing so many over the top ignorance with these protestors.

[@arhabersham]

12:14 Ayaan: "Tom Holland's book" My brain: "Whoa, Spider-Man?!"

[@graceakem5563]

😂

[@fraserbailey6347]

Ayaan is a truly great woman. I read her autobiography last year. It is called 'Infidel' I recommend it to everyone.

[@chadjohns6955]

I am looking forward to reading it, I have had it on my shelf for a few months, and it's next up in my "queue", I'll be starting it in the next couple of weeks

[@Minorstepstudio]

Her recent talks w Peterson unfortunately seemed to allude to that. I wish she would revisit Sam's work. There are several critical points to consider. First, the notion of a 'nihilistic vacuum' in atheism overlooks the rich, meaningful experiences found in secular humanism. Atheism is not inherently despairing but offers a platform for finding meaning in human values, experiences, and the natural world, independent of supernatural beliefs. Secondly, the characterization of atheism as weak and divisive simplifies complex global challenges. The divisiveness and irrationality we often confront are rooted more in religious extremism than in a lack of faith. Moreover, turning to Christianity for answers seems incongruent with Hirsi Ali’s past critiques of religious ideologies, especially considering the historical and doctrinal issues within Christianity itself. Perhaps in her most compelling argument, Aayan posits that in the face of a potential escalating conflict between Islam and the West, the absence of a unified religious-cultural front could leave the West vulnerable. This argument, while compelling in its urgency, paints a rather grim picture. It is based on the premise that cultural and ideological battles are best fought with religious solidarity. This perspective might be overly pessimistic, and I certainly hope from the bottom of my heart she won't be right here. A secular approach, grounded in shared human values and rational dialogue, could offer a more inclusive and resilient path forward in navigating global conflicts. Regarding Hirsi Ali's reference to the Atlantic therapy article, her endorsement of its narrative is problematic. The article’s approach, using a specific study of DBT in a school setting to generalize about the efficacy of therapy for teens, is misleading. It deviates from the established principles that underpin successful therapy by misapplying DBT, a therapy meant for specific mental health issues, to a general teen population. This oversight, coupled with the non-voluntary participation of the teens, diverges from the personalized nature of effective therapy. The article’s stance potentially undermines the credibility of therapy, a tool that has been instrumental in aiding countless individuals. But Ayaan seems to not care much about evidence lately, does she? It’s also important to note that spirituality can coexist with secularism and atheism. A secular, humanistic worldview accommodates a profound sense of spirituality, defined by a deep appreciation for the universe’s mystery, human connections, and the mind. This form of spirituality is not reliant on religious doctrines but on a sense of awe and wonder grounded in rational inquiry. Furthermore, while Western liberalism is intertwined with Christian theology, its roots can be traced back to the intellectual traditions of ancient Greece. Thinkers like Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle laid the early foundations of humanist values centered on reason and empirical evidence. Christianity, in this context, was more a vessel than the originator of these liberal ideas. The Enlightenment's emphasis on reason, science, and individual rights evolved these concepts, often challenging religious dogma. In summary, while she will forever be one of my heroes and I will always respect Ayaan's personal journey, the reasons presented for her conversion seem to overlook the principles of rational inquiry and skepticism central to a secular, humanistic worldview. The compatibility of spirituality with secularism, the historical roots of humanist values, and the complex relationship between religion and societal challenges all merit deeper consideration.

[@Iphigenia-hl5uc]

Couldn't agree more! Being an atheist doesn't mean that you're any less spiritual than theists. In fact, I've been a spiritual atheist all along; it’s all in your mind. Good luck for Ayaan H. Ali. Your explanation for conversion, however, isn’t strong enough. From Sri Lanka.

[@majid3731]

Unfortunately you made the mistake of taking her remarks in good faith. She is clearly trying to make bank off the right wing social movement. Its easier to sell books and play a role in todays social commentary world when you preach to the choir.

[@johndroycroft]

As an atheist and a secular humanism I strongly agree

[@sarascope]

Thank you!

[@stud6414]

You can't be helped if you believe you dialogue with religious zealots whose God rewards them for deleting people

[@erim9175]

She seems so much more happier face brigher, her smile. I can see the transformation. To God be the Glory!!

[@mikes.2773]

Ayan Hersi Ali, Robert Spencer, Geert Wilders - this is where it all began.

[@78skj]

Exactly right, she left the Muslim brotherhood just to join the Judeo-Christian brotherhood.

[@user-cf8tu7di2t]

She is a wise woman❤

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

She believes in something that nobody has yet proven exists. Why do you think that's wise?

[@avinashsharma984]

@@crazyprayingmantis5596come on you can keep on researching on weather God existed or not…! Only faith… not search

[@user-di2xl7hp9s]

Thank you Unherd for your insightful interviews generally. In a specific way, thank you for interviewing Ayan and allowing Q&A in the end. As a Somali Christian Pastor, I am a living testimony of Christ's Transformative power. Welcome Ayan to The Faith. Indeed we are in the middle of a civilisational and ideological war especially with Islamism and Wokism. If we fail to do counter Da'wa, then we may loose. That is why I'm training to be an ordained Minister Of The Gospel.

[@itn-nq5tn]

God bless you, i give glory and praise to God Almighty for shinning His light upon all mankind. I'm an British Afro-Jewish originally from Zimbabwe.

[@Ajbeats761]

My beloved Sister so happy to watch this interview Our God is good His love endures for ever

[@alewoanna]

I was moved to tears when she mentioned how she described a perfect God to her therapist and realized that she was describing Jesus.

[@johnnyboy6707]

I’m an agnostic that used to despise Christianity. I’m still an agnostic, but over the years I’ve come to love it. I eventually came to realize practically everything I hold sacred as a Westerner finds its foundation in it…there is no modern Western culture without it. Maybe someday I’ll come to believe it’s miracle claims.

[@brianwolthers2762]

I had and now have very similar views. Rationality is tempting as it promises an answer to everything. In some cases this is possible. It's easy to rationally explain why a bridge stands but doesn't fall. However extend this further out to the point of, as Aayan says" you have no more significance than mould" it becomes nihilism. I think that's partly what is behind some of these protests. The protesters are so deprived of meaning that they will march for anything that is anti their own culture. In which I mean anti the culture that doesn't give them any meaning. Yet they think they are fighting the old full of meaning culture. ( Tearing down statues etc)

[@twntwrs]

Things you hold sacred like slavery, misogyny, patriarchy, burning heretics at the stake?

[@johnnyboy6707]

@@twntwrs Read “Dominion” by Tom Holland and educate yourself…and while you’re at it, try your best to place your preconceived biases and a priori beliefs on hold.

[@shakermaker6879]

@@twntwrs with respect, please quote the Bible where it endorses any of those things.

[@galinor7]

The freedom of the West is based on scientific discovery and rationality not believing in the boogey man.

[@IngeEvenwel]

Great interview as always. Such wisdom. With more people handling difficult topics in such a way, there can only be hope for the future❤

[@karagi101]

Believing in something without evidence because it makes you feel good or you expect better outcomes for society is the most idiotic thing a person can do.

[@marlenetassone8140]

God bless and protect you my sister Ayaan. Praying for you and your family🙏🙏🙏

[@Paul-th9vr]

Ayaan has first been a strong voice exposing the dangers of radical Islamists.

[@PaddyIrishman]

@phlebas9204 She already has a death sentence hanging over her from the movie she helped make in the Netherlands called Submission.

[@Andy-zu3tv]

The scary thing is an honest open conversation like this possibly puts a target on your back.

[@on2thenextthing]

Christianity has evolved. I think we can all say for the most part it's peaceful. Islam has not. While there is a peaceful element, there is also a radical, violent, dangerous element. It's still in the command and conquer phase. It represents a threat to humanity. That doesn't apply to all individuals who follow it. But it does apply to the religion. The examples as you know are numerous.

[@on2thenextthing]

​@phlebas9204and therein lies the problem. The bigger issue is not being able to address it without being called Islamophobic. That's the real issue. That's the issue that puts everyone at risk in the future.

[@PaddyIrishman]

@@on2thenextthing the ones who it does not apply to either don't know or if they do, cannot be considered Muslim. To be Muslim is to accept every single aspect of the ideology, without question.

[@mikeb.7279]

Ayaan is a beautiful soul.

[@nickneachtain]

Not really.

[@chadjohns6955]

This was far too short, I wonder how much was edited out, or if it's available in full to subscribers? Love Unherd for this and all the great work you do. Love Freddie for his impeccable journalistic fair and balanced and eloquent style.

[@TheSpoovy]

Freddie is an absolutely brilliant interviewer. I can't think of anyone I prefer.

[@innocence8319]

What a beautiful interview

[@khalidNroses]

I converted to Christianity and then Catholic Christianity back in 2011. I secularized completely by 2015 and then noticed that atheists in my country (Saudi Arabia) and atheists in the west behave differently. I read Tom Holland’s Dominion during the pandemic and came to appreciate more the Christian foundations of western society. I had my faith revived later. I was so happy to know you joined the Jesus club . God bless you !

[@memememememe515]

"then noticed that atheists in my country (Saudi Arabia) and atheists in the west behave differently." what do you mean by that?!

[@khalidNroses]

@@memememememe515like removing the dignity of every human they disagree with in the name of “progress” and pushing society forward, support authoritarian system of governance in order to bring a utopia even while sacrificing the freedoms of their fellow citizens , and advocating hyper nationalism and making a modern gods out of their sovereigns and pushing for the use of force for all of those who dissent .

[@matheussalim5652]

Welcome back home brother. No beauty like the fullness of truth in Catholicism

[@johnthomson1579]

I’m pleased at how far she has travelled but she is air-brushing the Christian story. Christianity is not a civilization, it is a personal faith and only where there is a large number of people who have a personal faith a culture will be created.

[@joolslorien3936]

Exactly, and the suggestion is that our western culture has roots in Christianity that are so deep and pervasive that the values we might see as a secular humanism are more Christian than they appear to be.

[@johnthomson1579]

@@joolslorien3936 Yes, and the tide is rapidly ebbing even here. Currents are coming in from all kinds of sources to replace Christian belief. Christian values as a superstructure cannot survive where there is no christian belief upon which they both rest and flourish. People like Douglas Murray and Tom Holland, both of whom I admire, wish to retain the Christian culture but cannot commit to Christian faith, to Christ. In societal terms such a dynamic seems to me to be impossible to sustain; they may well agree.

[@Rosho27]

Remarkable and illuminating conversation and talk

[@heavencanwait421]

This is brilliant, as is Aayan. I just love how, as brilliant as she is, brought Christianity down to its simplest terms, by examining the life of Jesus and recognizing that He represents the kind of God that she wants. I’ve never, in my 74 years, heard it spoken so clearly and so simply. May God continue to speak to you Aayan. And thank you, Unherd, for this video.

[@MikeT-in1eg]

What she said in this interview is basically that she actually doesn’t believe in god, but she became a Christian because it aligns with her political belief (conservatism)

[@waynemcauliffe-fv5yf]

I`m a atheist but i think she`s great

[@petercollingwood522]

She's not. If she really believes the crap she's now spewing it means she's flushed her brain down the toilet.

[@tg2535]

🇨🇦☦️🙏

[@galinor7]

​@@tg2535She is lovely but that doesn't prove the existence of a supernatural life form.

[@tg2535]

@@galinor7 Just ask Jesus with an open mind to show you proof.🇨🇦☦️🙏

[@vanessali1365]

Galinor, you can't disprove faith either.

[@kennischidiebereezirim7533]

This lady is speaking d TRUTH to d throne.... Truly,".. the simplicity that is in Christ" as d Bible said.

[@boborigue]

I have recently seen such a balanced and respectful discussion on religion. This lady is a true gem.

[@PianoDentist]

I am a big fan of Ayaan, but disappointed in her reasoning. The reasons Ayaan gave for "jumping on the atheist bandwagon" - whatever that means - is interesting to me. She said that she used to think that atheism meant that all religions are equally bad, but now realizes they are different. Sorry, but that's not why atheists reject religion. Atheists reject religion because they are not convinced by the claims put forward by religions, that there is indeed a god that exists. It's not a moral question, it is an epistemic one. Most atheists I know, recognise that from a moral impact perspective some religions are worse/better than others - and during different points in history. Aayan, almost addresses this fundamental point at the end of this video. She doesn't sound like most Christians to me, other than she thinks that Christian values are worth keeping - I can get behind some of that. However, you can't side step the fundamental challenge from atheists, because a god with specified attributes and characteristics, is required to exist first as a pre-requisite. Lastly, Ayaan said she has chosen to believe in Christianity. One does not choose to believe at all. One becomes convinced of a proposition, then as an outcome one is said to hold a belief. If you simply "choose" then your belief is unjustified, because it says nothing about the reason why you believe.

[@carolynb.7455]

Thank you for this very thoughtful and honest conversation with Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

[@oc882]

I will watch this interview again and again so pure and so inspiring

[@debbiebayles1706]

Very powerful. I heard the other day that Ayyan had come to believe in Jesus, and was so happy because I know how much he satisfies and brings peace and purpose that it is not an empty purpose. She is right you cannot force conversion of Christianity on people because it is a free Will decision of the heart. True Christian faith is a free will decision of the heart. Radical Christians if there are those can chop off somebody’s head, but they cannot touch their heart. Families can reject loved ones Who will not turn to Jesus. They can alter behavior, but they cannot convert a heart. True Christianity is a decision of the will and heart.

[@betterdaysahead3746]

Jonathan Pageau is a strong Christian, maybe suggest him to Ayaan. He has a KZbin channel called The Symbolic World. God bless.

[@virginiacharlotte7007]

They were both at the ARC conference. Perhaps they met already.

[@unicorn1620]

Thank you for this interview. She is amazing. I also converted to Christianity shortly before she annonced hers, so I was especially excited to hear the news. 🙏

[@carlyblankevoort3856]

Most enjoyable interview! Amazing lady and her life story is intriguing

[@olayinkasonaike2027]

Am also clapping. May she remain in Christ forever.

[@marilenat.5255]

God bless her and everyone on here!🙏😇❤️

[@bamideleemmanuelola9529]

Brilliant and sincerely honest ❤

[@vidadespuesdedivorcio]

I’m so happy for her conversion to Christianity. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@vfwh]

4 minutes in, and we're already not making the difference between the protests in support of bombed Palestinians and "they" who are the people who "100% support what Hamas did". Not a great start. Never quite believed in Ali's whole new atheism arc. I'm not surprised one bit by her recent coming-out as a Christian.

[@SheDreadsElectionYears]

"The legacy of that story is what we're living through... it's a story that says human life is worth living because it's in the image of God.... that story is much more appealing to me than 'you have no more value than mold,' and that's atheism.

[@Mike_Jones281]

Atheism says nothing about the value of life. Atheism rejects the notion that a god gives value and purpose to one's life.

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

What exactly are you referring to when you use the word God?

[@lightangel4422]

Amazing testimony

[@suzimonkey345]

Thank you!

[@bigtopvoice2197]

I respect the intellectual honesty she expresses.

[@nasrin-bird]

How much I’d like to be friends with Ayaan! Converse with her closely and listen to her. She makes so much sense to me. She is almost a mirror reflection of my own intellectual, emotional, political evolution.

[@lkhotinthang8943]

When I was hearing about Ayaan Hirsi debate on "Is Islam a religion of peace," she was honest and logical thus I hope one day she would become christian.

[@mciril]

Grazie cara, con la storia della tua vita ed il tuo lavoro ci aiuti a decifrare ed a capire. Grazie

[@-_V_V_-]

This is sad to witness, personally... the need for consolation is a strong and deep one. It seems to me that she makes a rhetorical slight-of-hand with the comments that atheism, the enlightment (etc) all come from judeochristian values and therefor those honored secular values are immediate results of the precepts of the judeochristian traditions... that assumes that the connection is as thorough as saying one comes from material support of the other...They do not reconcile that way or much at all. History shows that all of the secular values the western cultures hold dear **including religious freedom** come precisely from the opposition to religious dogma, wishful thinking, propensity to fascism, and defense against societal squabbles based on whose god is better, whose followers pray more correctly or whose interpretations are better. It's all ultimately a dangerous impulse. It was secular culture and humanism that civilized religion.

[@benedictpsamuelr]

I disagree. Modernism and enlightenment actually led to the fascist communist horrors of the twentieth century. The Indian independence movement actually appealed to the Christian morals of the British as did the civil rights movement. It wasn’t so much that th Judaea Christian moral legacy was deficient but that it’s implementation was subverted by power.

[@paulheydarian1281]

The timing of this announcement seems very suspicious. I can resepect Ayaan Hirsi Ali's decision to leave Islam and become an atheist. But to convert to Christianity and announce it now, appears very opportunistic. I must wonder if her husband (Niall Ferguson) had something to do with the timing. Additionally, Anti-Semitim was a long established Christian European phenomenon. And very often the Jews fleeing Europe chose to migrate to Islamic lands. Finally, the term Judeo-Christian is relatively new term. However, Judeo-Islamic civilization was a reality for centuries prior to modern era began. Yet one almost never hears about Judeo-Islamic civilization by mainstream scholars in the west.