Is the Ghoul Being Scammed? (Fallout TV Theory Season 1)

[@jvazacas]

Well, this serum was in fallout 4...nuka world. Rachel went out looking for a cure to keep from turning feral. Roger the ghoul that is turning said it's been 28 years since started to change...turn feral. So he didn't need the drug until he started turning feral.

[@lindsaysfallout]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT. Pinning this to look into it. Can anyone give me a quest name?

[@callmedoc2147]

​@lindsaysfallout it's contextual from kiddie kingdom

[@eMYNOCK]

Main part of the Kiddie Kingdom Quest, Rachel and her Holotape can be found in Bradberton (optional to convince Oswald to leave without a big showdown) clearly stating that she didn't find a Cure and that nobody she came across had knowledge about it either. Common assumption, Ghouls just turn ferral eventually. edit: there are also several generalized Terminal entries throughout Kiddie Kingdom that follow the Survivors from turning Ghoul to turning feral over the centuries.

[@jvazacas]

Please do, go to nuka world and search the houses in the Bradberton neighborhood. You will find Rachel's body and her holotape. It blew me away when I heard it and made the connection.

[@CollideFan1]

It seems its a "cure" that was made/discovered on the West Coast and as rumors goes, information about it finally reached the east coast at the time of Fallout 4. Now 20 something years later we're back on the west coast and finally see it for ourselves.

[@Ubernerd3000]

My head-canon is that feralism is caused by certain areas of the brain not receiving enough stimulation for extended periods; the kind of stimulation that ghoul brains need can come from community, interaction, and hopefulness; it can come from having intense, personal goals; it can also come from drugs that stimulate certain areas of the brain; many of the ghouls that don’t go feral across all the games tend to be the ones that are part of a community or have strong goals and personal interests that they pursue, like scientific enquiry

[@TheSemajshadow]

I've always thought it was like dementcha or parkisans/ altsimers (no idea if I spell any right) like they are just getting old or the brain has decayed too far. Maybe the drugs are rare prewar medicine for brain desieses?

[@WhysoSeriousSamual]

@@TheSemajshadow I have to agree with this, I love the idea that not all ghouls will become feral, and in fact those that will, will also have mental issues when they get older anyway.

[@lindsaysfallout]

I LOVE this. I once chit-chatted with someone who was studying aging, and they said there's a lot of truth to the idea of "if you don't use it, you lose it." To maintain humanity, one must exercise humanity. Damn good idea.

[@cynicaltheastrocreep4504]

What about the bright brotherhood followers who have gone feral? Is a religious cult not a fervent enough ideology?

[@smokingbobs1344]

That almost sounds like hollowing in Dark Souls. Fitting, as they're both beef jerky people.

[@kylebyrne7459]

Glowing ghouls can heal other ghouls around them with radiation, which implies ghouls heal from rads

[@Dirty_Davos]

yup and you actually heal them with radiated weaponsc

[@nubreed13]

It's in many of the games that they can heal from radiation

[@Carblesnarky]

The ghoulish perk as well has radiation being able to even heal humans.

[@jvazacas]

Healing from rads and taking something to keep from turning feral are 2 different things though

[@lindsaysfallout]

Omg why did I not think of this. This is great. I hope I get around to a follow up video with peoples replies

[@two-timingtramaroot8756]

The Snake Oil Salesman looked as surprised as Thaddeus that his 'elixir' did something.

[@furiousapplesack]

Yeah, I noticed that too. He seemed like he was as intrigued as to what would happen as we were. I think he may have had no idea what it was and didn't really care, except for the morbid curiosity which might be why he took off ASAP after that.

[@twichytail]

@@furiousapplesack he knew man, that's why he told Thaddeus he didn't need to worry about radiation anymore.

[@jameswhite6612]

Sure thing buddy boy

[@NotMyActualName_]

No, he knew what would happen. I don't think that serum actually makes you a ghoul, he became something different. Something more like a vampire. He clearly wants to die, that's why he has a gun in his mouth. He has probably shot himself in the head before and still didn't die from it.

[@nocturnal101ravenous6]

@@twichytail True, very true, but what if he is turning into a super mutant, we haven't seen 1 of them yet, so in the second season they might be laying the groundwork for a gentle giant to be in the mix.

[@MR.LMR1996]

A lot of fans seem to be taking Maximus' guess as fact. Wouldn't be out of the question for him to be incorrect over Thaddeus' new healing factor.

[@j.f.fisher5318]

Also it shouldn't be overlooked that Maximus's "guess" happened to be the possibility that was most advantageous to Maximus.

[@Mike-kw5xv]

The doctor makes mention that radiation wouldn't be a problem for Thaddeus anymore so that is a second piece of info suggesting it might be ghoul related.

[@chill_will9816]

​@@Mike-kw5xv My money is he turns into a super mutant. He'll get caught by a group of them but they'll smell him for what he is and stop just short of killing him, maybe even being made into a super mutants squire of sorts

[@KydNotorious]

I believe Maximus has the idiot savant trait😂 don't get me wrong, I like him, he's just very naive even for a brotherhood squire, and especially for a knight.

[@terrelldurocher3330]

​@@chill_will9816that is halarious, the ghouls are left alone because the mutants see them as kin.

[@LloydDoyle-h3i]

A cautionary tale about drug addiction. His wife turned out to be an evil monster. He loses his daughter after bombs fall. He becomes a ghoul. He loses hope, becomes depressed, turns to drugs. Like most junkies he makes excuses for his drug use. I need the drugs to keep me from turning feral. Outside the Super Dupet Mart, he was going through withdrawals. Not turning feral. He is a badass fighter but also a tragic character who has lost all hope and became a junkie. I think he got some hope back after meeting Lucy and discovering her last name and Hank is her father. So he may have hope now.....but is still a junkie.

[@aaronstillwell9492]

Perhaps... But it's fallout so I don't think that's where they were going with that. Drug use in fallout is bread and butter. Addictions come and go in the game and are easily resolved. No where near RL drug use and addictions. Just my 2 cents. Plus turning feral for a ghoul isn't like just a mind state, it's a physical degradation, this particular drug slows that progression. Based on that it's not an excuse to use it. It's a necessity now.

[@DavidRYates-tk2tq]

Okay, bigot.

[@Droppy01]

I think his daughter and wife are still alive, they could be frozen like in fallout 4. If u listen in the episode when he gets taken by the sheriff, he says "Where's my Fu kin family!?? Implying that he was separated from them but they most likely didn't die and are in one of the control vaults or maybe even vault 31 just like Hank and Betty

[@FabulousSquidward]

That's fucking stupid.

[@lizzyisbored9882]

​@@aaronstillwell9492 if drug addiction was like real life I don't think a lot of people would use it. I don't think the shoe should be 1:1 of the game because you can get some crazy perks that significantly lower the stakes and that may be fine for a videogame but not tv/ movies.

[@xauxe]

I watched the show thinking Cooper was really just a chem addict - and experiencing withdraw symptoms as a ghoul made you go feral.

[@Arcana_Jester]

I have been hoping it's a scam. Cooper's reaction to being without the chem seemed more like withdrawal than "going feral." Going Feral is a massive psychotic break, and being alone makes it happen faster (so sayeth in-game experts). There is also the possibility of brain damage due to starvation that can't be regenerated, at least right away. When you starve, the body leeches the brain first. Also, becoming a Ghoul is in the genetic makeup. Not everyone has the capability, but those that were in the urban environs prewar had more of a chance due to their in-home tech, and a micro organism in their processed foods (Deinococcus Radiodurans). The Children of Atom are mostly comprised of later generations with this allele frequency. Most likely our Brotherhood Initiate friend with a bolt through his neck has this in his DNA, and when exposed to the proper conditions activated the mutation. Gonna stop there before I write an essay. It's something of a passion of mine, the Ghoulification. I have done the deep dive into actual science (and John Haldane's theories). But yeah, I think they're getting scammed and it's a placebo effect with a dash of something else to give it a kick and make it addicting. And this addiction is making things worse. Maybe it's the Enclave, maybe it's Maybeline.

[@j.f.fisher5318]

If it is a scam, the reveal down the road is probably going to be a dramatic moment. Probably also a violent moment.

[@j.f.fisher5318]

I also love that in E2 the snake oil salesman claims to have medicine that can regrow a foot. But yeah, it would be so fitting if that stuff was a scam. I was wondering why the ghoul starts coughing when he doesn't get it. That doesn't seem like a symptom of becoming feral to me. Wanna bet it's cough syrup and he's just dependent on it and starts coughing when he doesn't take it and phlegm starts building up?

[@j.f.fisher5318]

Gaaa! I can't stop thinking about this. We see other ghouls who are losing their humanity and they don't cough. Coughing doesn't seem to be a symptom of becoming a feral ghoul, but Cooper coughs when he doesn't take his medicine. And if he doesn't take it for too long he becomes incapacitated, but not feral, just too weak to move. I'm convinced that you're on to something here.

[@TheCrayonMaster]

​@@j.f.fisher5318yes! And also, the guy Coop shoots because he's going feral has empty vials at his feet...like he's used them but they aren't helping.

[@j.f.fisher5318]

@@TheCrayonMaster you're right@

[@JackedUpEntertainment]

Might just be normal drug withdrawals lol

[@Fireandknives]

LMMFAO, that’d be crazy if the Ghoul was sipping Lean!!! The Fallout show would gain a cult following from DJ Screw super fans in Houston, TX. 😂😂😂

[@piratetv1]

I completely thought it was a hallucination until Lucy and Maximus saw Thaddius heal. It even seemed like the snake oil salesman was either surprised it worked or making himself scarce before thaddius came down and realised his foot was still mangled

[@lindsaysfallout]

Right?? Same.

[@music4thedeaf]

It's called hydra.

[@stingerjohnny9951]

It’s implied through dialogue in the games that ghouls do have some regeneration ability that allows them to reattach small parts like fingers or ears. And we see the Ghoul doing this.

[@realdaggerman105]

That’s true! I guess it’s a hard line to find. They are definitely NOT immortal outside of a headshot. I mean, Fallout 3 had a ghoul calling us racist for thinking that. But they definitely do have some above-normal level of regeneration. Weird.

[@nevik2950]

The second game has a goul that mentons reattaching his limbs.

[@stingerjohnny9951]

@@nevik2950 And of course there are the glowing ones who can resurrect dead ghouls and the ghost people of Sierra Madre, which keep getting up after death if you don’t dismember them. WAIT, what if the thing the snake oil salesman gave him was Cloud residue?!

[@nevik2950]

@@stingerjohnny9951 That would be bad, as they aren't actually gouls. It is much worse.

[@stingerjohnny9951]

@@nevik2950 yyyyyyup

[@OblivifrekTV]

I think Thaddeus is a super mutant, but maximus was taking a guess on his condition

[@ThisValiantAdventure]

Think it’s just a narrative plot device the show has introduced to give Cooper a weakness. He is clearly the most capable character on the show, so they need a way to bring him down when it suits the story. Imagine we’ll get a season ending cliffhanger with him being left alone without the drug, “My name is Cooper… my name is Cooper…” will be haunting.

[@MelysaHamilton]

Maybe that's what Dogmeat is there for, to be an emotional support animal during a crisis?

[@davidfalconer8914]

The ghoul turning feral has a number of empty vials in front of him and asks for one more vial implying that the serum does nothing to prevent turning feral.

[@lukedudley5030]

Good point..he must've taken loads and would've left to look for more if it wasn't a recent action

[@lostbutfreesoul]

They didn't look completely empty to me either.

[@timbothejedi4146]

It looked to me like he was held up there with his last few vials and had no way to get more. These ghouls know each other and other people. No way there's a secret scam that big going on.

[@shanepye7078]

I had forgotten that detail of Hancock being turned by a specific drug. Good catch.

[@HansShackleford]

Trash is definitely punching the air in heaven 😂

[@darienleigh5603]

That is a good thought! I know he said it was rhe last.... but wouldn't it be rather cool to find a recipe and some terminal logs

[@soulsurvivor8293]

It's more likely to be a Prewar Chemo Chemical cocktail mixed with a highly Radioactive Material as part of it's original prewar formulation. Probably a Highly concentrated formula used for severely terminal cases. Left to bathe in the additional Radioactive aftermath of the war, it was probably the equivalent of injecting liquid Plutonium waste straight out of a reactor into his blood stream. The rest of the Chemo cocktail would include some heavy duty painkillers and a sorted variety of other chemicals likely too toxic for humans when they were fresh, let alone after 200+ years of entopic decay in a Radioactive hellscape. Would definitely give him one hell of a high and a massive dose of radiation, the latter of which would be more than enough to turn him into a Ghoul.

[@realmdma]

Next to The Ghoul, Norm was my second favorite character. First, he was too chicken to accompany his sister into the wasteland, then he’s sneaking into other vaults and uncovering a major conspiracy, and calling a faux Chad a coward. Loved his arc. His intelligence and perception gotta be off the charts lol

[@kylewilson3751]

I agree with that. His arc seems pretty original to me. Typically just investigating wouldn't be considered heroic but they set up his character and the stakes perfectly.

[@realmdma]

@@kylewilson3751 just thought the juxtaposition of big scary “Chad” saying let’s turn back, and norm saying no(pussy lol) made norm look a hard ass. Then he called him a coward to boot🤣

[@kylewilson3751]

@@realmdma Norm's testicles grew 3 sizes that day 🤣

[@angrybrony]

I think it's a deadpool situation where early on ghoals don't lose to much fleshy bits and rot, but the healing factor mixed with rad poison and cancer, and that's why ghoals are rotting but still together mostly. Hell fo3 had that perk were enough rads could heal your broken bones.

[@lindsaysfallout]

Omg that’s a fun idea, if the snake oil salesman’s drugs are perks 😂

[@stingerjohnny9951]

Yeah, it’s called “Ghoulish” I think

[@angrybrony]

@stingerjohnny9951 maybe that's what the guy has, not a full ghoul, just ghoulish.

[@stingerjohnny9951]

@@angrybrony Honestly obtaining a trait by huffing some gas a stranger gave you fits with the old games…but he should still probably avoid the brotherhood

[@twichytail]

ghouls aren't rotting, the look is not decomposed flesh, it's melted flesh due to radiation until scarification takes place.

[@revolt81]

We gotta remember that the show is also a decade further on the timeline than we've been yet. This drug could be NEW.

[@Neuralatrophy]

Its been implied that Cooper has been taking it for quite some time so its not a new thing within this stories lore... It could be something as simple as an anti-psychotic drug in concentrated form that just helps smooth out the ticks and fits that come with turning feral and its the scam/impression that it prevents it entirely.

[@lindsaysfallout]

Actually, no - Rog says to the Ghoul that he’s lasted longer than any of them and “that’s a lot of vials” implying they’ve been under the impression they need these vials for a long time. Thats why I suggested, as a long game, it would have to be a regional scam.

[@bridgeth6746]

it could have been known only by a few until recently. maybe Coop knew because he had that connection to Vault-Tec? then after centuries it finally came to be common knowledge?

[@cwolf201]

@@lindsaysfallout we're back to universe inconsistency too. kid in fridge since beginning of the bombs. kid ghoul. player character releases fully verbal non violent ghoul kid

[@danielmontoya1069]

Eddie Winter turned himself into a ghoul to wait out the war too. Hes part of Nick’s questline

[@lindsaysfallout]

Oh yeah! Also worth looking back into!

[@quinnzykir]

How he didn’t go feral after 200 made me I didn’t have to kill him so I could talk to him about

[@Pixelcat607]

It’s also important to point out that he specifically turned himself into a ghoul before the bombs fell, which I believe adds him to a small collection of ghouls that were born pre-atomic annihilation.

[@victoryfaction]

This may also be related to the girl whose holotapes you listen to in Boston who's testing out a cure for radiation. She documents her decline as she doses herself with more and more rads, then takes the "antidote," but it doesn't work. Her PI seems to be the same doctor Eddie worked with.

[@JackMValentine]

I can't recall which, either Fallout 3 or New Vegas, I remember a conversation with an NPC that talks about Ghouls going feral being unknown but that some attribute it to genetics or environment but some also speculate that if the person has something to hold on to psychologically that they can keep themselves from going feral longer. If it's a cause or a vendetta or in Cooper's case looking for his family. Some people just have a focus which allows them to hold onto their humanity. Which I can see going in part with this supposed feral drug. I also had the thought that it was some kind of placebo and that what was really keeping Cooper going was the never ending search for his family. It would make the most narrative sense with how they have set up his character. Even from the beginning by leaving the chicken as the only thing alive when he's dug out it shows he's not feral, he's still holding on to his humanity. Meeting Lucy and being reminded of pre-war ethics, hitting a low point in the Super Duper Mart and realizing he's lost a lot of his dignity while watching his old self compromise his values. Which means that once he gets to the bottom of it all he won't have anything left keeping him stable, which should be sad and interesting to see. Here's to season 2 and beyond!

[@rowdeemunkee]

I always saw going feral as similar as going hollow in fallout. When you lose hope and purpose, you mind starts to deteriorate. But then Bethesda put a kid in a fridge isolate for 200 years, so who knows anymore

[@keithcurtis]

It could be a mislead. Without the drug, the ghoul did not go feral. He passed out from weakness. I think he has a fundamental difference from the other ghouls, going back 200 years.

[@final_catalyst]

I never thought it was the same drug. Also the regeneration kinda still fits. Ghouls are walking "rotting corpus" so the rapid healing lets you keep walking but eventually gets overwhelmed enough that you are bearly not losing ground. Also, Ghouls are possibly the same thing as "robo brains" just instead of an extracted brain in a jar (that is regenerating to stay alive) it's stuck in a body with limited regeneration sharred with the meat suit

[@roxxiedapiratevods1812]

I originally thought the serum was just a form of Rad-Away

[@HettycTracyn]

I assumed that it was some mixture of radaway and something else (because the iv bags and the vials contents look the same, and look like the radaway given to Lucy)

[@Wotan874]

@@HettycTracyn on the radaway bags always "radaway" is written, on the bags above the grave its not, so in my opinion its just as yellow, but something else

[@z3br490]

Now that i think of it, going feral might also be a withdrawal symptom of the drug, that has been misinterpreted as saving ghouls from becoming feral. Meaning the ghouls are actually dependent on it Ghouls go feral more often and are thereby even less trusted then on the eastcoast. Coupled with the fact that ghouls now have a higher mortality rate, factual information about them is really scarce. New ghouls might therefore also believe they need the drug and they start taking it

[@corm7538]

Personally I think Maximus is wrong about what's happening to Thaddeus I don't think he's turning into a ghoul I think he's turning into a super mutant because I think that Doc give him FEV. It’s fascinating to see how the show’s characters evolve, and Thaddeus’ fate remains a topic of intrigue that hopefully will get expanded on in season 2 of the Fallout show in 2026.

[@lukasbridges8070]

In New Vegas, private Edwards thinks the radiation will turn him feral. If that’s the case, the medicine could just be a weird form of rad away that prevents ghouls from over accumulating rads, thus turning feral.

[@personman1148]

In FNV in the irradiated town an NCR soldier who recently turned into a ghoul refuses to go outside a house because he is afraid of going feral. You can convince him that that isn't what causes it and then he joins the ghoul ranger squad.

[@BZCurse]

There's also Hydra, an in-game drug, that heals limb damage

[@Wotan874]

in FO3 Thaddeus would have been fine with his foot if he had just injected a Stimpak directly into his foot

[@Aftmost17]

I thought it was hydra at first too

[@tornicade]

Cain mentioned that character perspectives are flawd and jave always been flawed. There is a healing mutation serum. Just because Thaddeus and Maximus thinks he is a ghoul doesnt mean he is. He didnt lose his skin.or hasnt yet. Cooper didn't go feral when he ran out of fev. He passed out . Which is typical of ghouls until they are Awakened .

[@FabulousSquidward]

I was thinking that the serum the snal oil salesman gave is FEV

[@Ith4qua]

I'm still of the opinion that ghoulification has to do with The New Plague, which happened right before the war. There's a bit of a deep lore conspiracy theory that the new plague was FEV or a prototype of FEV. It wouldn't at all surprise me at all if the green goop the chicken fucker adds to the inhaler came from the ruins of Mariposa.

[@benevolentconcepts]

“War … continues to be invariant” lol

[@TheK5K]

This line was gold. Thanks Lindsay!

[@brettleisy356]

there are some flaws in this speculation. according to actual canon documentation. a ghoul DOES regenerate, you can even take a perk in FO4 that ghoulafies you and grants regeneration based on your rad level. canon also notes that the radiation that keeps the body functioning, also slowly degrades the brain FUNCTION (as apposed to structure). this is what causes ghouls to become feral. now if you also notice the small bottles of these are very precisely made, measured, and labeled the same way, much like a 1950s pharmacist would put out over the counter. this suggests a pre-war items, especially since how they go to find these vials in pre-war clinics, hospitals, pharmacies. something that may have been over looked before hand. my guess would be a Alzheimer and/or dementia medication which is made to fight degradation of function. this wouldn't break canon and still be new. would also explain locations of these bottles. reasons they didnt turn to these sooner? it was overlooked and seen as a totally different condition maybe the long years has made it "go bad" but actually might be an aging process required the radiation levels in it have changed its constancy and/or structure which would be connected to the reason above it's not like a scam artist is going to sell a couple bottles then run around the wasteland to plant them in all these pre-war places.

[@Lordoftheapes79]

I don't think we'll see the ghoul face his fears of going feral until he finds Janey.

[@m14srv]

Ironically going feral would be assumed as their body breaking down due to lack of radiation to repair their bodys

[@Jeromy1986]

I love that the snake oil theory really fits with the fact that what had seemed to be an aerosolized inhalant also is just something Cooper would drink vials of. Since the lack of effect would be the same.

[@MaddogJones]

I think you're on to something about the differences between the two coasts. There is no internet, there is no highways, there is no reliable way to communicate past large distances. Just like the "Gulper" can be derived from a salamander on the east coast and an axolotl on the west coast. There are also many different types of ionizing radiation which can effect ghoulification in different ways. Also every country that has nuclear weapons has several different types of nuclear weapons that all give off different effects in terms of type of radiation and the amount of fallout they produce. So it isn't impossible to think that there are different types of ghoul with different physiologies because they were effected by gamma rays or alpha particles. Perhaps on the west coast were FEV was invented it's also possible that in the 200 years since the bombs fell that someone altered the FEV or some similar drug to slow down feralification.

[@d.a.y.chanel]

I assumed it's just Radaway. Goul's take it if they get too much radiation into themselves and could become feral, and because of the recently ( for the timeline ) dropped bomb at Shady Sands the radiation would go up in the region and they would need to take Rad Away to stop becoming Feral.

[@sashmiel6566]

I don't think the bombs at Shady Sands was a nuke, and was just Brotherhood gravity bombs

[@j.f.fisher5318]

@@sashmiel6566 well that hole is nuke sized - it would take one heck of a conventional bomb to do that. Also (spoiler for the end of the season)... It was VaultTec that nuked Shady Sands, not the BoS.

[@stingerjohnny9951]

@@j.f.fisher5318 The BoS was probably rocking in afterwards to salvage.

[@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t]

@@j.f.fisher5318 I think we can conclude safely that a nuke was detonated underground, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing intact structures so close to the edge of the crater.

[@BaeBunni]

The problem 8s we have non feral glowing ones. So radiation isn't a major factor if there are sane ghouls literally just expelling radiation constantly

[@Revan498]

my money's on the "ghoul serum" being modified FEV. It would also explain the ghouls having a healing factor now. This could even tie into your theory of the The serum being a scam: The Serum grants healing abilities, yes, but actually does jack diddly for preventing Fearization. Our Ghoul is just mistook the fading of his healing powers for feralization...

[@chameleonx9253]

My take is that the anti-Feral serum is a scam. We've observed that going feral most definitely has a psychological factor; despair drastically increases the risks. So this serum could be working purely on the placebo effect; taking the drug gives them hope, and that in itself staves off the process of going feral. Considering we see the source of the serum in the show, and that place is full of feral ghouls, it feels fairly obvious that it's just a racket. For all we know, those ferals they had locked up are former customers that came for the drug, but were too far gone so they kept them there so they wouldn't tell anyone the drug doesn't work. As for Thaddeus, I 100% think he was infected with FEV. He's not a ghoul. Max was just wrong.

[@Hannah_G]

Max does have a below average intelligence stat

[@gunkid6368]

Jet helps keep ghouls from going feral it was talked about in fallout 4 and in obscure lore there is a very potent version and that is what this "serum" is

[@midniteoyl8913]

First thing that came to mind for me as well.

[@NotMyActualName_]

This serum only exists in this show. We know from other sources that ghouls become feral randomly. So yeah it seems like this stuff is just an addictive drug he thinks he needs to not go feral. He's clearly high as a kite when hes on it and goes through withdrawl

[@andyb1653]

TBH, I'm not 100% convinced Thaddius even IS a ghoul. It's certainly possible, perhaps even likely, but there are other explanations out there. Perhaps the Snake Oil guy's drug simply grants regeneration for a while, there's all kinds of weird shit out in the wasteland.

[@lindsaysfallout]

Hm, yeah, I suppose that door should stay open. 🤔

[@UNSCPILOT]

It's also possible the usual Ghoul degradation we know takes some time to kick in, that's my feel for it from how it's usually spoken about in the games

[@j.f.fisher5318]

@@UNSCPILOT good point. To my knowledge, we've never seen a normal ghoul right after getting nuked.

[@andyb1653]

@@UNSCPILOT If Thaddo's skin starts falling off in S2, we'll have our answer. lol edit: I am like 95% convinced he IS a ghoul now, having re-watched the show... It's kind of foreshadowed by how discriminatory his statements about Ghouls are in earlier episodes. It'd be analagous to a homophobe realizing they're actually gay, yeah?

[@alienunleashed]

@@andyb1653exactly why I was convinced he’s a ghoul to, so much hate for a specific creature just for you to become what you hate.

[@KenwrathKDK]

My personal theory is it could be some form of an irradiated stim maybe? Or it could possibly be something new thats being introduced because my thing is jet was made by some kid in fallout 1 right? What if a scientist got ahold of handcocks drug recipe and recreated it? But instead of a high it heals you an makes you a ghoul for some reason

[@oywiththewaywardtardis]

First things first: Came for the Fallout, hit subscribe the second you said that your other interest is in neurodivergence. (Late diagnosed autistic over here) Secondly, I love this theory because the ghoul serum was the only “retcon” in the series that I haven’t really been able to shrug off. Anything else I’ve taken as creative license, but this seemed like such a huge divergence that contrasts so drastically with how painstakingly faithful they were in recreating so much of the world. However, my brain is taking your theory and running in a slightly different direction with it. What if the serum doesn’t actually PREVENT going feral…but also it isn’t fully snake oil and also kind of does? Here’s what I mean. We’ve established that the only effect that we can verify this serum has is insane regenerative properties, (with ghoulification as a side effect?). To my understanding, going feral has a component of neural degeneration, if not being completely caused by it. Like, their brains literally start to rot away over time. The actual factors in how long that takes are unknown. But…it makes sense to me that a drug with established crazy-intense regenerative effects would also be regenerating those brain cells that have already started degenerating, thus delaying the process of going feral. Does that make sense? Or am I totally off because of some bit of Fallout lore that I am as yet unaware of?

[@Wotan874]

thats about what I thought too

[@codyperry5427]

Or hear me out it’s FEV

[@weaselbug8631]

I'm so glad to have found your channel! We seem to share a lot of opinions and I'm excited to see more videos!

[@oOVanillaMelOo]

I just found this channel and I love your take on the Ghoul/Cooper and the lore in the serie so far! And also the way you explain it is very clear and interesting 😃 I'm definitely subscribing!

[@mobilegamersunite]

Ive never wanted to be blocked so bad! (Defiance disorder kicking in)

[@tyanisfoca]

This is a super interesting theory and as someone who has lived 25 years with an illness that has a huge "unknown" factor to when it can alter my life, it would be... I don't know if "nice" is the right word but interesting to see The Ghoul have to face that after being so certain of being in control. I kinda have my own theory, or idea I guess, of some other possibility. So... glowing ones can resurrect feral ghouls with their radiation blast thing. I always assumed it was the radiation doing it... but what if there's something else to it? Maybe the drug is derived from whatever the glowing ones put out and doesn't stop feralness, but does regenerate ghouls? Maybe a bunch of them are mistaking illnesses or stress and fear as them starting to turn and the drug simply heals them and maybe gives them a "regeneration buff" for a few hours? Would make sense to tell them to take one every day to "ward of going feral" instead of being like "here, take three and use them before a fight you may or may not get in so you can regenerate". And maybe enough of them take it to where Max would mistake regeneration as an inherent ghoul trait? And it looked like Roger was using quite a few while turning considering the empty vials near him and it didn't seem to stop it. I don't know. Dying to see if they explain more in season 2!

[@josephwatkins1190]

Maybe stress is part of turning feral, in which case thinking they're turning becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy where they mistake health problems as turning feral only to be given something that boosts their regeneration which makes their physical symptoms subside. They believe it saved them from turning feral and they're right, just not in the way they think. So it boosts their regeneration but when it comes to ghoulification it's a placebo. The ghoul could find out either the coughing is withdrawal from whatever the drug is or that he has a degenerative lung disease of some kind that the boost in healing holds off.

[@mordokai597]

my theory is it has to do with the way ghouls heal by radiation, doing more genetic damage, causing scarring leading to the more and more 'ghoulish' appearance and nervous system damage similar to MS (sclerotic scar tissue of the skin, organs, and brain). i also think it has to do with good old fashioned age induced dementia. i think the ghoul chem combines an already existing inhaled chem for rapid regeneration, with a radiation suppressant to temporarily halt radiation induced healing, and a cognitive enhancer to ensure their nervous system is in "neurons that fire together, wire together" mode when they regenerate. Hydra+Rad-X+Mentats

[@ANIpJs]

Just found your videos and am loving them. Also I have that same Silent Hill shirt, it's one of my favorites.

[@lindsaysfallout]

Silent Hill 2 remake will totally take over my life 🤣🤣

[@Slowplaymae]

Just found your content with this video and holy radroach is this the best thought out amalgamation of vast storytelling and minute details I’ve seen so far. Subscribed a few sentences in and was delighted I did when you paraphrased instead of saying the thing! You made this neurodiverse brain very happy! Thanks for the excellent content!!!!

[@cyberash3000]

as far as i know, i heard that ghouls arnt caused by radiation alone, as far as i heard it was it was people who was exposed to very watered down small amoutns of FEV aND Radiation, but that might not be the only way to become a ghoul

[@stingerjohnny9951]

There are so many different takes on that, even the original Developers can’t agree on what the fuck Ghouls actually are. One guy says Mutants are FEV while Ghouls are Rads, I think the lore Bible states they’re both, Harold is a COMPLETE mystery. This is why I’m frustrated with the lore nerds whining about the show: THE LORE IS CONVOLUTED AND A COMPLETE MESS IN THE GAMES!!!

[@canaan5337]

The lore should be convoluted and hard to sort out even conflicting in the games and show because that’s how things are in real life too. You never know in real time what’s fact fiction propaganda misinformation disinformation. Historically I’m sure it was always hard for everyone to separate truth from gossip rumor and lies, even the people keeping records. Turn on the news right now and if you watch the same thing being covered by three different news outlets you could get 3 very different stories depending on what each media company wanted their audience to think.

[@Jordan_CG]

I have a hard time believing Cooper wouldn’t have figured it out in over 200 years.

[@DavidRYates-tk2tq]

I was so happy when I saw cats on the Prydwen in Fallout 4, but I honestly didn't recall ever hearing House thinking that they went extinct when I played New Vegas. Probably because I didn't talk to House that much. Idk, he just never appealed to me as someone I wanted to talk to a lot lmao

[@MisanthropicPrime]

The cats are synths

[@jonathananderson1728]

The thugs who dug up Cooper said don Pedro would cut off parts of the ghoul and they would heal, we also watch as the ghoul stitched lucys finger to his stump and it grew motor functions. I assume it's like The mysterious serum Lorenzo makes in fallout 4

[@thepaladxn]

still such insightful work. Please keep going!

[@lindsaysfallout]

Thanks, will do! Every little comment like this fuels the fire 🔥

[@The_Brickdude-id4pn]

Patrolling the Mojave makes you wish for a nuclear winter

[@That0neGuy2]

It really almost does.

[@NatalieXHunter]

They literally show us in the show that ghouls don't heal that way - we see The Ghoul sew his finger back on. Whatever Thaddeus took, it isn't turning him into a ghoul, it's just Maximus not really knowing much about ghouls and gives a reason for Thaddeus to run away from the BoS.

[@-iIIiiiiiIiiiiIIIiiIi-]

I think your take is way beyond what the writers had in mind. Unless they catch wind of your idea later on.

[@j.f.fisher5318]

if that wasn't their plan, I hope they pick it up because it's brilliant

[@jakeand9020]

I don't know, when he's talking to his friend that's going feral we see a bunch of empty vials that Coop actually comments on. Indicating the other ghoul took a lot of the anti-feral serum, relatively recently, and is still turning feral. Which, in turn, would indicate it doesn't actually work.

[@TheK5K]

@@jakeand9020 Diminishing returns! The longer you use it the less it works. Like drugs, ya know.

[@SuperCharcoalangel]

The fact that snake oil salesman bit was actually legit was the biggest twist of the show

[@danlazaro1435]

Fascinating and smart. Refreshing find on KZbin.

[@CM-db5cg]

Something worth mentioning is that the only person to say that Thad is ghouled after his regenerative abilities is.. Maximus, who isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. It's entirely possible that he isn't ghouled as we know it, and just has regenerative abilities that appear to create a lot of scar tissue. We also don't know if the regenerative serum is the same as the anti-ghoul serum, The Ghoul never shows any regenerative abilities. If they are the same thing, that'd make sense, going feral is a form of long term radiation afflicted brain damage from what we know, so wolverine serum should logically cure it. But the one time we've seen a ghoul going feral take the serum, it's distinctly not worked so it's probably just highly addictive snake-oil that placebo's you.

[@SkylineOdeum]

Wackt theory, but what if that human who thinks he's a ghoul helping the Bright Brotherhood in Novac was actually a ghoul like Thaddeus all along! 🔎

[@stingerjohnny9951]

…Holy shit…So he COULD have gone on the Great Journey…poor bastard.

[@realdaggerman105]

I think Jason Bright and his followers composed entirely of ghouls would be the authority on early-stage ghoulification. And they seemed pretty sure he wasnt a ghoul.

[@ranniemanangan5371]

Well in Nick Valentine's companion quest, the man he's hunting starts turning himself into a ghoul before the bombs drop and he then hid on his personal bunker... In terms of the drug, it may be similar to the drug from the Cabot family, the one they take to stop aging. And to be fair, we haven't seen the transformation of a person into ghoul... So it's possible some could have the regeneration ability of a ghoul while still loooking like a normal human... But maybe later on as time progress the ghoulification will kick in and make him look the ghouls we know

[@Weaseldog2001]

So far I have not seen anything that violates the lore. I agree with you, that we are seeing things that add to the lore. So if Fallout 5 is a thing, i expect it will include elements to the TV series. And to the folks that are disappointed that their hard work got nuked, well that is the wasteland for you.

[@lindsaysfallout]

It would be freaking awesome if we could play a ghoul in Fallout 5, and the serum mechanic could replace the rads mechanic, since we'd obviously be impervious to rads.

[@crimson_oracle]

The only thing in direct conflict is the location of shady sands, but even that there are potential explanations for, like maybe an ecological collapse in the old location lead to a migration to the boneyard and the establishment of a new location or something, or it’s just a soft retcon and we don’t need to worry about it. I hope they address it at some point

[@stingerjohnny9951]

By choosing a canon ending for new Vegas, they affect the lore. Some people just don’t like change or adaptation.

[@Weaseldog2001]

@@crimson_oracle Personally I would be fine with a dozen or more minor violations of the lore, as they got so much right. My expectation was that they would really screw this up. And I'm not seeing that. And the fact that the seeming deviations from the lore can be explained the way you did, I think underscores what a good job they did with this show. Contrast this with how Peter Jackson changed LOTR, and how far he deviated from the source material, and I'd say this show is really on target.

[@crimson_oracle]

@@Weaseldog2001 yeah, the show is remarkable, and I think it’s in part because Todd Howard was a producer. He may not make my favorite fallout games, but the guy legitimately loves this stuff, he’s not a suit and he was there to make sure they got it right

[@bifkyn8151]

First video of yours I've ever watched, 3 mins in, had to like and sub lmao. Immediately love your takes, knowledge, and obvious care about the world and lore of Fallout. Thanks for the content!

[@William0271]

Nah, no channel where the host is stuck up enough to have that control freak intro is worth watching. Actually crazy. Chances are I would have agreed with the rest of the episode, instead I'll click off and this'll end up as one of those deleted comments

[@ElChileno420]

Couldn't agree more. Sounds pretentious as fuck and then you see the actual person and it all makes sense 😂

[@William0271]

@@ElChileno420 Lmfao, I had to look. You're 100% right

[@ElChileno420]

@@William0271 🤣

[@jacklincoln3]

The into is definitely pretentious and I was off putted by it but the video is still worth watching and isn’t close to being pretentious as the intro.

[@h8uall66]

This is such a good theory/analysis. I already liked the show but now I'm seeing depth I missed before. May need to watch a second time. Thank you!

[@GothGobbo]

I will say, while the scam theory is entirely likely, there were characters in 3 and 4 who were actively looking for a cure, and the show takes place 10-20 years after those games. Granted, Dr. Barrows was looking to cure ghoulism (?) entirely, and Oswald was just looking to prevent or reverse the feral condition. Between the two of them or any number of other doctors/scientists who might have been researching a cure in the last 200 years, someone might have made some headway. Could be interesting if the next game makes a nod to this, assuming the show doesn't prove the whole "it's a scam" theory correct.

[@TheMrfluffi]

Yeah, was very confused by everyone getting angry about retconning, the show is the latest of all of them so assumed they just found a cure between the games for ghouls who were about to go feral. Obviously doesn't work on those already turned, doesn't mean every ghoul _will_ turn without it, just gives those who are going to turn feral a way of delaying it.

[@pokemaniacalex8031]

I'd love to see Thaddeus come back later on in Season 2, and it turns out the drug he took was FEV, turning him into a Super Mutant. Basically the Brotherhood's version of Frank Horrigan, and they take advantage of that.

[@VileMike]

I just thought of it as a drug that returns feral ghouls to normal ghouls but the effect only lasts a certain amount of time.

[@marcusburrows19]

I see you don't post too much but hope you stick with it after this. Found your insight really interesting, and hope you expand these breakdowns/fan theories to the rest of the series. Subbed!

[@lindsaysfallout]

That's the plan! It’s less that I don’t post often and more that I’ve just recently restarted. The show really revved up the engine!

[@BloodRefiner]

Quality Fallout Content delivered casually and knowledgeably? Like a bottle of purified water in a wasteland. Subbed.

[@amotue]

Just wanna say how much I've enjoyed your last two videos. Can't wait to see more!

[@MacMashPotato]

We have seen a goul serum that prevents feral in fallout 3 a scientist was working on such thing and nearly created one that even reverses ghoulification. On the other end there is hancock that used a serum to goulify himself. There is also a perk in one of the games that lets you heal from radiation.

[@tajbaber9425]

Two things: it's already been expressed that isolation brings ghoulification faster, but the first time we see Cooper, he's in a casket with two I.Vs of yellow liquid in him. I assume that's the same liquid he uses to keep from going feral

[@mattjackson382]

One of the things i noticed is that it's heavily implied that ghouls are healed by radiation, as shown from the Glowing Ones. The burst of light heals the ferals that surround them and causes a bunch of rads to accumulate on the player. I propose the fluid is basically heavily irradiated nebulizer fluid (albuterol). So when put in a mist and inhaled, the ghoul gets a nice boost of radiation. As for the Snake Oil Salesman, maybe he knows something we dont. Perhaps he can see who's got the potential for ghoulification

[@TheK5K]

Hi Lindsay! You seem like an informed, enthusiastic follower of Fallout. Your theories seem plausible and you can state them plainly. Subbed!

[@xedalpha1]

Keep in mind the Ghoul took about 5 bullets in the back and was only staggered slightly (maybe they all regenerate after a bit if not killed). I also thought it was a hallucination too btw. I was waiting for the penny to drop.

[@jessikat_17]

Just found your channel and i LOVE that idea. I'm a fairly new Fallout fan, first game was 4 which i havent finished, and my bf had me play New Vagas which has fully hooked me. I like the show exploring ghoulification more because I am still learning about the world and have always had the most questions on how ghouls work. Love this thoery!

[@Symphonic98]

What a wonderful video thanks for the effort put into this one earned my sub

[@topherclay6131]

I instantly likened the foot repairing itself to hydra, the limb repair from new vegas. I'll be honest I'm not as good with the lore except just the stories from anything before 3.

[@TheHamahakki]

Just found your channel and I loved your two newest videos. I hope to see more! I hope you do more cultural analysis like in previous video, but this kind of lore speculation is also awesome!

[@crystallkingh3048]

My thinking is that the drug actually works, maybe with a few exceptions like any drug, but crucially there are some ghouls who are just lucky and dont need the drug, like the kid in the fridge, and Eddie Winter. I also think it might be harvested from ghouls, as we see Cooper start eating Roger when lookin For drugs, and we see multiple ghouls held in fridges at the super super mart.

[@cordelllongstreath741]

By far the best fallout channel ive ever been on

[@lindsaysfallout]

Wow that’s an amazing compliment, thank you!

[@marcuswehle1833]

I liked the idea that you mentioned that information to West and East Coast could differ. And despite what any single person says that information could be different elsewhere. And the idea that all the ghouls could turn feral at any moment and that all the chems and drugs just help along the way.

[@axi6963]

I think a really great depiction of fighting turning feral was in Nuka Break, understanding that you could fight it if you remember how you are, what mattered to you, the people you care for, it would stop it completely but you'd have more time

[@CheddarGorgeous]

What a great, well-thought-out video. thanks Lindsay! I'm still hoping for a FEV, radiation cocktail explanation for goulification. i like the idea that in small doses FEV might help stimulate the brain out of necrosis preventing Ghoulification!

[@topherclay6131]

Btw first video instant sub. I'm shocked it took me this long to find you. Very well done.

[@philfooshay]

We saw The Ghoul get shot in the back a few times during the shootout in Filly and it didn’t phase him whatsoever, so it definitely seems as though he has some sort of enhanced regeneration ability

[@ryanbusch2885]

On the mention of Harold and his tree(Bob), I think the GECK explosion near Harper’s Ferry before 76 might’ve played a part in why Bob chose that place in the northern capital wasteland to settle down because that’d just be slightly down stream on the Potomac and that GECK infused soil might’ve built up enough to entice that tree to take root.

[@dpearson898]

Anyone else think the stuff the snake oil salesman had was fev?

[@georges2842]

You made some solid and interesting points. My running theory has been that the chem he's been using is a sort of medication for mental illness, particularly related to memory. From what we've seen of ghouls going feral in the show, right at the end, they repeat their names over and over, desparately clinging to what memories they can. This lines up with the theory I subscribe to that going feral is sort of like Alzheimers. If the pre-war developed drugs to combat such a condition (especially when it's brought on by exposure to radiation) then it would likely be effective in combating feralization. This may also explain why some ghouls don't take the medicine, as some people in the real world are more genetically inclined to develop Alzheimers and similar issues than others, so it's not a stretch to consider some ghouls just aren't as likely to go feral. Then again, the same genes may be tied to ghoulification in the first place.

[@Varner410]

The serum must have given the squire the ghoolish perk. That makes it so radiation heals you. With the whole world irradiated, the healing benefits must be constant.

[@lukedudley5030]

He has the perk that heals you when getting rads...the area was highly irradiated so he was healing quickly due to the perk surviving the arrow in the neck and healing quickly enough to not die

[@keithmcdonnell4485]

It has been lore from at least fallout 3, (and probably before that) that radiation causes a goul to heal, and too much exposure causes a goul to go feral. Not sure how you missed this. When I saw the goul drug heal Thaddeus I figured the drug itself has a crap load of radioactivity and thus the drug converts you to a goul and heals you with the already known goul regenerate when exposed to radiation.

[@darienleigh5603]

Right on! Just found your page. Big fallout fan. Can wait to watch more of your videos

[@HavartiCamembert]

Two things that have been strongly implied in cannon are that ghoulification happens due to radiation and that ghouls can use radiation to heal faster (as the ghoul perk states in 4). Given those implications, I'm wondering if the "healing factor" might actually be a side effect of the serum and not its original intent. It pumps you full of so much radiation to ghoul you that you gain extraordinary healing for a short period of time due to your new ghoul nature.