Is the Integra the Best Handling FWD car EVER?

[@glenn20l]

Hit the nail on the head with these “youtubers” and all that jazz that have their opinion on how cars drive and handle. Until your on the limits like you say on track and you actually can drive and push. You don’t full understand or know how a car handles. Shame there isn’t more like you in the car scene Dan. Pure love for what the essences of a car is.

[@C4RZZ]

Haha yeah Sir Silverster could of called out most of the car community on KZbin! 😂

[@mattteee2973]

You should hear the media guys from McLaren and others opinion on youtube 'reviewers'. They're understandably miffed when some hamfisted wally drives at 3/10ths then says it not very good haha

[@LupinYonderboy]

That's partly true but how a car 'handles' on the road and track and two different things. Although only driving at road speeds you wouldn't learn the characteristics of your car at the limits of performance.

[@davidopitz972]

99.99% of driving isnt anywhere near the limit so those reviews are actually far more important

[@davidopitz972]

and if you take track times into consideration, faster = better, so opinion on "feel" is irrelevant

[@JeremiBulakowski]

Great episode, hope there's gonna be more like this. Sounds almost like more Yorkshire version of engineering explained but debunking auto journalists myths.

[@mattteee2973]

I never waste an opportunity to inform someone that a journalist is right up there with a politician or solicitor when it comes to scummy bastards you shouldn't listen to.

[@groeacht8525]

This week on Danny Disagrees ...

[@PGriff]

My 2-penneth; I’ve owned a DC2, 205 GTi and 306 S16 (basically a 5-speed GTi-6). I think the stock DC2 is the best handling FWD car, probably largely down to the LSD, but assisted by the decent suspension. The 306 and 205 rear torsion beams are actually really good, and I say that as someone who’s not a huge fan of French engineering. Effectively the torsion beams are independent rear suspension, with a built-in internal anti-roll bar (leaving out their reputations for the needle bearings shredding themselves as they get older). I really enjoyed the 205 and 306 and I’d put them extremely close behind the DC2, probably on par if either had an LSD, even though with the decrease in power it’s rare to spin up the inside. The 205 and 306 were more prone to lift-off oversteer which I actually thought was a good thing as it would get you out of the poo if you ever needed it, it also meant they rarely understeered unless you were doing something wrong or just plain mental. The 306 felt a bit more grown up and had the nicest ride of all the cars mentioned, but I thought the lift-off was also the snappiest - not deadly, you just had to have your wits about you. The 205 was similar although I thought the lift-off was a little more progressive than the 306. The DC2 was almost as snappy as the 306 on lift-off but not quite, plus the LSD gave the extra confidence to boot it and hang on that bit more. I think it would be great to try a DC2 without an LSD and a 205 and/or 306 with an LSD as a comparison. Cheers for the vid as always Dan - always an interesting topic that one 👌🏼

[@The_BenboBaggins]

The ZS isn't on any lists because it's a Rover/MG, the British motoring press hate British cars - if it were German or Japanese it would be. A ZS180 with a K24 would be interesting. :)

[@duncanajpv8]

To be fair, evo mag raved about it back in the day.

[@toyotahashiriya]

Handling defines the whole package of the car under certain circumstances. Chassis balance, weight, suspension setup, wheels and tires, brakes, steering and of course engine and gearbox. All of that results into a rewarding feeling that is called handling. I have had the chance to drive an '98 eu-integra type r with LSD on the track and it felt more rewarding and more responsive in anyway than the golf 7 tcr, which I drove the same day. Of course the golf was a lot faster, more comfortable and not so stressed, but I didn't get the same rewarding feeling / experience that I got from the Integra.

[@C4RZZ]

I agree with your statement, what I've always thought about is what if the new cars were stripped back/out do you think you could make them feel as raw and rewarding as the older platform stuff, or would you say it's more to do with the steering and assisted stuff?

[@joshuabrown9398]

Totally agree, I've never driven an integra but I loved the way the phase 1 Clio 172 felt vs the ep3 I had

[@JDSjoel]

Not sure how the real Tiff Needell compares to the Irish one 😂

[@MrKhushrenada]

I was never a fan of FWD drivetrains until I had a ride in an Integra Type R. And it is the only FWD car on my list of dream cars.

[@diegolamagna7334]

Just a quick note from a Clio nerd Dan: 172 has, yes, the same suspension scheme as a normal 1.2, but, components wise it's completely different, not one part is interchangeable. Front subrframe, rear axle, hub design, hub carriers and struts are all different. The standard car is some 50mm narrower than the sport version as a result. It isn't just a case of same car with bigger engine and maybe stiffer suspension, quite a lot of components are different. Still agree with yor point, this is a nerd note.

[@dannyDC2]

Facts!

[@joshuabrown9398]

I work at a go kart track and obviously none of them have any suspension and they all have the same tyres however, some definitely handle better than others. The width of the track front and rear, the camber of the wheels, the stiffness of the chassis etc. all change the way they turn in and grip. So even though a 182 has a similar suspension design to a 1.2 they are set up differently.

[@georgestreisel7920]

I had a shot everytime dan says "handling" id be dead. Side note the background music reminds me of gran turismo 4 menu music

[@mrbakerr1]

Have a shot every time he’s says ‘handling’ and let the liquor do the thinking.

[@FairyLiquid69]

that's because it is gran turismo music :)

[@LeviHeizer]

I think one of the biggest misconceptions about handling is that its some linear thing. Some cars handle better on short tight tracks, some cars handle better going 0-300mph in 3 seconds. It really depends on your use case. A supercar handles terribly on city streets, does that make it a bad handling car?

[@dannyDC2]

so you're saying handling can be used to describe how a car feels going fast in a straight line?

[@LeviHeizer]

@@dannyDC2 Yeah because if your goal is to go in a straight line as fast as possible and instead you end up upside down, the car doesn't handle too well does it?

[@dahotrod1533]

I have an mg zs180, honestly it is fantastic to drive, very well balanced, very sharp, precise and quick steering. I don't think I could ever get rid of it. Lack of an lsd in the zs was a missed opportunity, however there are many lsd's readily available for the gearbox.

[@zsracer7830]

I also have a zs 180 and I fitted a type b diff and the gear set and final drive From the zr160 it absolutely brings the car to life

[@dahotrod1533]

@@zsracer7830 i have a torsen b lying in the shed but I will probably upgrade to the t16 in my shed at the same time 🤣

[@Matthew-vt8hz]

I think total balance is the key. Power, weight, suspension, response that the car gives you.

[@The_BenboBaggins]

My classic Mini was bloody amazing before I refurbished the suspension and replaced the 30yr old rubber cones - prior to this, the suspension was practically solid and would lift the inside rear wheel on hard cornering. :)

[@nikbartlett807]

I'm new here, Pistonheads pointed me in this direction and I'm glad they did. Very thought provoking video, on top of all the usual things we talk about around handling, I would add that the driving position is a part of this and you touched on this with the mini, which is awful, I agree. Climbing into a DC2 feels like you are inside the car, low down and wrapped in it, this to me gives that confidence that it's going to be good even before you drive it. The likes of the 306 and Clio, whilst good, feel like you are sitting on the car, which spoils the experience, that and the passive rear wheel steering in the case of the 306! My credentials? I've owned DC2, DC5, EP3, Clio Trophy, 306 GTi6 and a hillclimb mini to name a few, that's just the FWD cars.

[@DavyR33]

Take a drink when Dan says "Handling"

[@quicknickdriver8510]

Ride and handling, comfort and grip. The suspension and tyres have so much to take care of. Loved this one Dan, very thought provoking. You kind of nailed it with the subjective/opinion based perspective. It’s all relative... keep on doing your thing and expressing your opinion. On this channel, that’s what counts

[@fazer12779]

Good handling to me means: How well balanced & composed a car is through turns & how long it can hang on for in a corner before losing grip. The feedback you feel through the steering wheel can tell you when you’re near the limit of the cars capabilities. Tyres & suspension obviously make a huge difference to handling & feel.

[@mrPrunes12]

“The new model doesn’t handle so well” and the pan around had me laughing straight away

[@davehigson9503]

Very interesting question! My basic understanding of a good handling car is when the balance between its power, it’s weight, and it’s available grip give the driver the ability to use all three to the absolute limit, balancing on the edge of all three aspects, ie if a car is to powerful for the grip available the balance is lost, if the car has not enough power you can’t make use of the grip available, if the car is to heavy for the grip available the balance is lost, so a good handling car must have all three aspects working in harmony to be considered a good handling car and the finer that balance the better it will handle! But I’m with you what is handling?? 🤔

[@LuqmanRosley]

Had a chance to daily a relatively stock DC2 type R for a couple of months. Took it out for some spirited b road drive and I loved every moment of it. Fairly easy to drive to its limit and its so confidence inspiring. Btw love the GT4 background music

[@TJS-ju4el]

My dad's got a standard mk1 focus rs and thats pretty impressive but i've never been in an integra

[@k20a_dave]

that gran turismo 4 menu song at around 9:00 haha. nicely done

[@ASBO_LUTELY]

Not sure what good handling is but when I used to be a delivery driver in my Festa, I could ping off the exit of a roundabout by releasing the accelerator a bit; I believe it was a way to almost instantly cancel the over-steer and I learned how to control it to my advantage.

[@upfactoryracing4148]

I agree it's not just the suspension it's the whole setup, engine and suspension and tires and brakes the whole package.

[@captainsvlog]

I think I have to agree, the term "handling" is more of an all encompassing phrase that describes the whole experience when cornering or braking etc. Feeling is a massive factor in it and that is a combination of all things, including the engine, gearbox, suspension all working together to deliver that feeling.

[@konholio2]

I would say good handling is related to how easy the car does whatever you want it to do. Responsive steering, good road feedback, predictable, easy to drive, "good" under/over steer ballance.

[@Sebbbbbb2335]

So what your saying is my next track car should be a Mgzs 180?

[@malcolmmiddle7331]

Very well edited and engaging danny. Loving the way its going. Keep it going you mulleted beauty

[@BobMarley-yq3wi]

Picked up my dc2 yesterday, didn’t quite get chance to do a track day vlog on the way home but 100% the best handling car of all time.

[@jfnonyt]

Edits were fire and the topic was really interesting, cheers Danny!

[@ghaniabid]

Recently, I took a car for a test drive, as I drove down a bumpy lane at 20mph towards the main road, the seller turned to me and said "handles well don't it" and I replied "yes it does"

[@seshelbow336]

its the moments when you think oops i might have pushed it a bit far here....and the car just does exactly what you hoped it would....and you come out the other side feeling like a legend. like having to brake harder than you expected on a bend...and rather than it getting all sketchy....the back end comes round just enough to tighten your line and make you feel like the car has your back. or hitting ice at 120 on a slight curve on a motorway, and the couple of degrees counter steer that comes naturally is the perfect amount that your passenger didnt even realise you were slightly sideways for 60m.....DC2's have this in spades.

[@spencersgarage]

Fun as hell to drive!! Feels extremely light and agile, very rev happy engine, delightful manual gearbox, great visibility, handling is superior, I could go on and on. I’ve owned many cars in my time (all manual gearbox vehicles) and my 94 Integra GSR is the funnest FWD car I have ever driven. Love my DC2 (and my S2000 of course)!!

[@bartmol1990]

For me Dan, the handling of a car means Suspension and Steering FEEL. Weight distribution, wheelbase, differential, center of gravity and so on, is all what leads to my feeling in the car. All these factors that makes the car predictable thus confidence inspiring makes it handle well for me. And I do include brake setup and the driveline. Because that is also contributing to the Suspension and Steering feel.

[@chrismc1977]

Thought provoking. ‘Handling’. I think it’s a combination of many factors. Grip (though not outright), responsiveness, feel, composure and feedback. It’s almost that undefinable quality of knowing just how the car will respond when pushed to the limit. I guess specifically for a DC2 it’s the fact that it tends not to understeer when you really push on- but the back end begins moving about that wins it so many plaudits

[@kayhesse]

Suspension, layout steering and maybe lsd is what gives you the feel imo. The Dc2 obviously had the stiffer bushings, shocks and shorter rack vs civics with the same layout. Even when fitting the lsd the civic doesn't nearly feel the same. But when you replace the bushings for stiffer ones and replace the shocks it comes close, even without a lsd 👀 when you got a Dc2 on 20 year old bushings and shocks it feels like a civic again..

[@CapoCod]

Spot on video Dan, but have to mention the music. Loving the Gran Turismo backing track throughout, great choice.

[@danielmartin6492]

The Lotus Elan M100 is often touted s the best fwd car ever made, quite left field and rare but it would be an interesting watch if you could get hold of one!

[@FeelTheDrive]

Very thought provoking! 100% agree that you can't comment on how a car 'handles' if you don't drive it on track and push it to the point of NEEDING the car to handle well. Handling is the car's response to your inputs and the feedback it gives you. Very simplistic but at it's core, does the car go where you want it to go, in the way you want it to? Don't know anything about FWD cars so can't comment on the best handling ones!

[@user-ue6iv2rd1n]

You can get a good idea of what a car is like on the road, if it's torque steering everywhere and has numb steering it's probably not going to be nice on track either.

[@beltdrivetypea6534]

Maybe just short for 'easy to drive fast' ?

[@loguey77]

Came for the conversation. Stayed for the soft gran turismo menu music.

[@call_me_cwis_9754]

A good handling car is a car that can support it's power in any conditions.

[@Colyers]

As someone who has owned a DC2 ITR, DC2 GSR, E36 (325,328,M3), and a E46M3 all I can do is agree with you lol.

[@Gofast1234]

Still rate the accord type r-CH1 as one of the best fwd handling cars 👏

[@dannyDC2]

Username checks out

[@Gofast1234]

@@dannyDC2 😂😂👏👏,, even taking some of the non honda lads out , they r surprised how well it handles road and track time

[@chrismc1977]

@@Gofast1234 I’ve had 2. Chassis excellent. Just a pity it only revs to 7900. Makes it much harder work to keep singing than a DC2

[@Gofast1234]

@@chrismc1977 - yes but either a final drive or s300 sorts that 🤷🏻‍♂️🤌🏻🤌🏻

[@LeighWinspear]

Great video and topic. Surprised the fact that the chassis is seam welded didn't get a mention too. This stiffness of the DC2, combined with the strut braces front and rear, definitly contributes immensly to the overall driving experience and driver feedback via the steering wheel and through the seat of your pants.........

[@dannyDC2]

DC2 isn't seam welded

[@LeighWinspear]

@@dannyDC2 Thought Mine was. 1999 T plate. Got me into a bit of bother with the law, so watching your videos is about as close as Ill ever get to owning one again.....

[@LeighWinspear]

Just researched this as I don't mind being corrected. Apparently, the chassis were not seam welded after all, but by spot welding at closer intervals, this added the rigidity Honda required for the car without risking, the warping of the panels that continuous seam welding could have resulted in.

[@Jayymes]

really enjoyed this type of video, hope you make some more like this. always thought if i was a car youtuber i'd make an unpopular car opinions. also dig the gran turismo music

[@Jims_racing]

Amen to the onboards! Nail on the head.

[@williamlirantzis6454]

I took a shot every time the word “handle” or “handling” was said and i was toasted by the 7 minute mark…

[@quest8795]

What makes a car handle well? The driver

[@Michael-kv2im]

I got lucky and found an integra steering rack at the junkyard. It’s in my k24a swapped 2000civic sedan with eg subframe. It’s amazing literally feels like having power steering.

[@misterLukeG]

digging the gran turismo garage music by the way. nostalgia much

[@TheKillaGP]

Best handling car I have ever driven was my Little Tykes Cozy Coupe I had when I was three. Could literally feel the surface of the road in that thing.

[@99Lezard99]

defenetly some good points. in the end of the day we cant really put numbers on "handling" so we never know. its really mostly subjective feel. but i think a good fwd car or a good car for that matter should have a good balance. turn in - no understeer no massive oversteer, mid corner adjustability with the throttle and corner exit a nice stable pull out of the corner. hectic corner entrys off throttle or tailbraking should provide a loose rear end. in other words the car should behave logicaly. on top of that it should feel connected and direct on all the inputs. one reason why i think the dc2 is held up high by that many people. its got a nicely weighted steering, nicely placed pedals and a nice rev happy engine thats directly connected to your foot with a simple throttle cable. and a nice defined shifter feel. one of the "camber and combustion" guys (who usualy only drive praised french hot hatches) took a red dc2 out on track to see what its all about and he seemed to love it. maybe a bit to much.

[@lindenbasket]

Well thought out answer ty

[@Wattsy94]

Dan, a car that is probably the least ‘you’, that I think you need to try on track, is a MK3 shape Megane RS250/265 Cup. Have had two, increidble cars for both track, and road

[@Flatbaby]

I think like you mentioned its a "how fun can you drive the car" A car can have a weird set up with no power but if you can drive it at its limits and keep grip youll have a good time BUT THATS JUST AN OP-ONION

[@paste8686]

Really enjoyed that and your right, its not something that is measurable. My top 3 (only that ive driven) Megane R26 Clio 182 My 2001 R50 mini On the right road my little 1.6 would smoke alot 😁 Cheers for the vid Dan 👊👊👊

[@midlifecrisis9269]

Its the whole package, if the car can be adjustable on all 4 corners thats a good start. My old toyota avensis had multilink fully adjustable suspension. I had a chevy lacetti that had fully independent suspension. Good rant ha

[@DMH_Electrical_and_Renewable]

Are you ok?

[@mambomurphy]

This video is perfect for a drinking game. Everytime Dan says "handling" you do a shot.

[@rallyeluke]

Love the granturismo music in the background

[@DWI_Community]

Can you make a video on the best "handling" RWD car as well please? It needs to be as conclusive as this video. Cheers

[@jonwebb9261]

So refreshing to see this kind of honesty. Fully agree with there being varying qualities of opinion, that’s the same reason it’s good to see Chris Harris on top gear (shame about the other two). I’ve got an eg myself and always found it to be pretty on par with DC2s. Feel like handing’s way too vague of a term!

[@misterLukeG]

I think the problem is in your mind good handling equals more grip and faster corner performance. In my mind it's just how the car reacts to your inputs and how you feel when the car reacts to what you're trying to make it do, no matter how fast you're going

[@Limitertickle]

I would say good handling would be how a car reacts to your inputs, how far can you push it before it wants to under / oversteer. Another which is left off the list is the Clio Trophy. External damper reservoirs made the car feel crazy for a ‘factory’ car. Going over a few points most of the sportier models have more development time spent on the suspension, stiffer lower springs, Different damper valving, thicker roll bars, some even have completely different hub setups like the Focus RS, Megane 250 etc. Some models also have quicker steering racks too.

[@adamproctor7316]

This is awesome! you make great points also. 👌

[@micheltebraake7915]

Nice train of thought!

[@apsilone3413]

IMO the reason why DC2 can be recognized as one of the best handling FF car is divided in two principal factors: overall package from factory and “Type R” track oriented treatment from Honda. The first one is very simple - it’s a combination of eg6 origin lightweight reinforced chassis, helical LSD, stiff suspension set up, high response NA engine with impressive power to litter ratio, cross gearing transmission with a short final gear and double-wishbone suspension with aluminum wheels all around. Just simply this on it’s own is very impressive, you can barely find a similar receipt like that among other manufacturers. The second factor is that it was designed and tuned as a track day ready tool from the factory by Honda. The comfortable ride quality was compromised to a more stiff and responsive experience with reducing springs travel and hard compression damping, gear ratios were shorten for response and straights on track not for economy and highways, alignment was tuned precisely to accomplish a more “neutral steering” feeling from a FF car and who knows how many other smaller engineering decisions were done. This combination is just simply unbeatable, especially for 90’s and 00’s. No one was doing that with FWD platform at the same level as Honda at all and that’s why everybody appreciate this car right now. I can only think of 00’s Renault with their RS Clios and Megans which are also considered as one of the best handling FF cars

[@mantazini]

Easiest way to get an idea of a good handling car is to go to a track day and see what majority of people drive on a day . 90% of the time it works !!! DC2s , DC5s , Clios , megs , mx5s , mr2s , M3s , evo's , elises , exiges ...the list goes on ... Theyre all good handling cars in their own right , and each of us will chose one over another for personal reasons , preferences . I drove all of the cars you have mentioned , and for me personally dc2 does not handle as good as meg , but has some other criteria for it to feel as special as it does.

[@The_BenboBaggins]

Ah, ask Fred Puhn - he wrote a book about it... 'How To Make Your Car Handle' :)

[@duncanajpv8]

I like the overarching message that it's all subjective, that certainly works for me. Also, you can change a cars behaviour just by messing with tyre pressures, let alone tyre choice, aftermarket suspension etc. Many a car out there ruined by aftermarket stuff.

[@coleyman1000]

Ov an fd2 type r now and had a dc2 and the fd2 is a little.better with feedback and if you take out the front seats Wich are very high in stock form the seating position then is perfect too

[@subsonix_]

Ahhhh good old relaxing Gran Turismo menu music :)

[@The_BenboBaggins]

To be fair, Pug have a good rep for chassis and suspension. The 306 GTi6 and Rallye had passive rear steering.

[@Kitch96]

New drinking game, watch this and take a shot every time Danny says handling 😂

[@benwilliams1396]

Watch now as Danny buys a ZS 180...

[@dannyDC2]

that would have happened a long time ago

[@Xboxracer1]

I guess handling means "trust". Trust to push and still live to tell the story. Also how cohesive the whole car is under spirited driving. Loved your explanation though, especially the part about on-track experience.

[@midlifemotors5050]

Great video, supeb topic. Personnally, and this is obviously very much IMO, for the whole package the RS Meganes are the best. Strong stopping power into the corners, great grip and balance through the corner itself and plenty of torque to pull you out onto the straight.

[@BigAuf_]

I don't have an opinion on the integra, all I know is that Beans on toast is great

[@sneekeruk]

I guess its down to the way the car reacts in corners, Ive had 4 306's and 3 minis over the years as well as an civic ep, and they all sort of handled very similar, they all had lift off oversteer and good turn in, I had an mg metro after my mini and It was an absolute dog, understeer everywhere, then a pug 205, which was a cross between the mini and a 306, it was snappy and turned in and gripped like the mini, but being snappy it was like the 306 for lift off oversteer but more sudden and not as easy to catch.

[@PGriff]

@sneekeruk Interesting you should say that and totally proves the theory of things being subjective; I owned a 205 GTi and a 306 S16 back to back and I thought the 306 was a bit snappier when it came to lift off oversteer. Without blowing my own trumpet or owt, I’d also regularly and deliberately use the lift off oversteer whenever roundabouts etc were clear of other traffic, so defo familiar with it. Agree they had great turn in though with minimal understeer. Never driven a classic mini to draw a comparison

[@joeprime4400]

Budget practise car (ZS) ?

[@N8_Mitchinson]

Best drinking game, drink everytime you hear "handle" or "handling". 7mins in i'm smashed guv.

[@BenExell]

Theres a reason why people say an old mini handles like a go cart :D

[@dannyDC2]

They can’t have driven many Go Karts

[@samstrange4052]

I've driven a few "good handling" fwd cars, clio rs, 205 gti, mk2 golf gti, and currently own a 08 swift sport, and have had 2 of the newer generations too. I have to agree the term handling is kinda a fauge term, personally I found all those I've driven bar the golf were good fun, had good feedback and did what you wanted them to. But some people might not like how they drive I think "good handling" is subjective how you like cars to drive

[@Mr-Yan.]

Hey Sam, any chance of a run-down on your experiences with these cars? I'm currently in an EM1 and find it great, though I've been encouraged to entertain the idea of moving to a 2014ish swift sport. What are your thoughts?

[@samstrange4052]

@@Mr-Yan. Hey Michael, I've only driven the 205 gti and mk2 golf gti briefly on track, but I can say the 205 felt very light on it feet, decent grip but could feel it rotate around you as you push on, sweet little engine nice gearbox was a joy. The golf was basically the opposite in every way, felt slower, felt really heavy, engine was boring and gearbox was meh. In regards to the 2014 ish ages of swift sport, they are awesome little cars (hence why I've had 2 😂). They feel pretty similar to the 205 tbh, you have to work hard to make it go fast, but feels light and agile, keen to turn in and rotate, can easily get the back out round roundabouts if you give it a scandi flick. Also has a sweet little engine, loves being revved out. There reliable as owt and that gen is pleasant enough as a daily, lots of kit for the money and decent mpg when just cruising. My 08 sport is worse as a daily but even more fun when going for a blast, I'd highly recommend either, I love them 👍

[@Mr-Yan.]

Ive driven the current generation swift sport at the recommendation of my mates who swear by them and yes! Hahaha! Got sideways in a roundabout in the dry! I didn't go hard hard as they're not mine, though the guys swear swifts are high-end stuff. I'm just worried if I swap my civic to a swift that there's a chance I'll feel it was a downgrade. Steering felt vague most of the time with centre feeling awful, brakes felt vague to modulate, a little bit of pedal translated to a lot of brake, just like a camry, where I prefer a more progressive system. In saying that, the car did what I wanted it to do. Aside that, the appeal is a newer car that's not appealing to thieves.

[@MrTrustafox]

Fun the listen to Dan. I don't think you can out and out pick the best handling car. Not just subjectiveness, but the type of circuit will make a difference to the answer. Tight and twisty verses open and flowing.

[@mikemurphyhotrod]

Absolutely love the rant🤣

[@Jamesibbotson875]

I’ve spent all year racing a Hillman imp (not FWD but bare with), there’s a real divide among people who talk about the imp, half say it was the best handling thing ever and was better than the mini (not hard), and the other half say it was the worst handling car ever, sometimes even dangerous with its lift off over steer tendencies. I’ve spent the year chasing stuff with 2, 3 and sometimes 4 times the power, absolutely no where down the straights but all over the bigger cars in the corners. I’ve made it work for me and so my opinion is it’s a good handling car, because I can out corner the competition and make the car do what I need it to do without it doing anything that scares me. someone else may jump into it and just not get on with it or get the best possible lap time out of it, so their opinion is always going to be different. You like what you like and people will argue forever over what handles best, but I think it’s the way the car responds to your inputs and how easy it is to drive quickly. That’s what I think makes a good handling car.

[@abc123732]

Id imagine Grip gets confused amongst all this. But for me, a car that "handles" well is one where i tell it what to do, it does it, and it gives me the same feedback, I turn in, balance the car and power out and it does what I've asked without becoming un balanced therefore id say it handles well. or a good handling car... Something i can throw into a corner and it sticks well but gives no feed back, id say it grips well. but doesn't handle well. Maybe a well setup car is a car that handles well, but then id also say Suspension design doesn't ultimately matter (dc2 vs 306 for example) As they've both been proven to serve a purpose on track standard for standard. Something that talks to you and rewards good driving. Something where i can feel where the limit is. Perhaps Handling is Trust and feel ? Ultimately though, id say its the same old that's a quick car, that's a fast car, that car corners well, that car "sticks like chewing gum in carpet" All taken with a pinch of salt as they don't really exist apart from someone saying it does this or that. GREY AREA.

[@dnok1452]

Nice to see the mgzs get a nod. I was given one, literally for free, from a family member. Did not want it but then who says no to a free car. Ended up keeping it for 7 years and just using it on and off for fun. I had tuned imprezas, a plethora of VAG shite, ignis sport vvti, 306 gti6 heavily modified, bmws in that time period but the mgzs is the one that stands out as being the most fun with the ability to scare most passengers silly through the twisties. Was it the best car of the bunch? No. But would I say it had the best "handling" or "feel" out of those cars (before any where modified)? Yes. Yes i probably would

[@quentinrs2507]

Nice video Dan

[@hideopalescent]

This discussion reminds me of the term “detailed” in audiophile parlance. Almost every time it’s used it’s basically interchangeable with “sounds good”. Maybe people just want to get away with saying “it drives well” without coming off as unsophisticated… and at the same time they are too lazy to dive into what that actually entails.

[@theadamzombie5]

Thanks for talking some sense, is there any chance you could review the fiesta st mk7 at some point so I can get your opinion about the cars handling?

[@ianjohnson8014]

Auto car actually had the mg zs as the second best handling car in general (not just fwd) in a poll they did in 2012ish which was way after they stopped making them. They’re top rate cars and definitely should be in a list of great handling fwds

[@99benjohns99]

Like you said handling is subjective, some people like a car that is a little loose and some people don't. To me a car handle well when it's easy to drive at its maximum potential. That is why the same chassis and suspension set-up with different horses power is deemed good or bad handling. But of course it still needs to be fast compared to other similar car and yes there is cases that don't fit this description.

[@TimmyTwoWheels]

To me the term “handling” is more about how the car “carries itself”. So a DC2 carries itself well because it has good steering, brakes, engine, gearbox etc etc

[@AJ-ms1oi]

Roundabouts were very fun in the dc2

[@harleycottrell802]

Im glad you picked on the mini tbh dan, i had one and although as you said scientifically the cornering capability is great mostly due to its weight, it was an absolute dog to wrestle through a backroad or a lane... And if you put a bigger engine in it or more power it becomes legitimately dangerous, people just look back at the mini with rose tinted glasses but it was actually shit

[@Retrobeemer]

Compared to modern cars a 50's design Mini is always going to be 2nd best but in their day they were epic. Watch this and you'll see just how they can embarrass more powerful cars on circuit. Goodwood is a quick track too. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqG4aWCgdpyVnJo

[@rhyslister2754]

What’s your opinion on everyone hating beam axles in FWD cars Dan?

[@seVen-rz5cm]

what about the FD2R

[@davezetec]

I think there is probably two areas low/mid speed handling like most reviewers talk about, how turn in feels, steering wheel, driving position, general stability, what the electronics lets you do etc then the on/past the limit handling that the track heros/racing drivers can extract which could be a different thing entirely and the former one doesn't necessarily mean a good latter one and certainly the reverse as well.. a race car isn't always well suited to the street for example. You're absolutely right not to trust those who talk about handling that don't use their cars in a similar way to you, whereas someone who talks about handling on the road who has experience driving hundred of cars in that way, someone buying a car for road they could probably buy into their opinion without being disappointed. Another thing to consider when you look for reviews is to find someone who calibrates to your existing opinions so when they talk about their experiences there is a good chance you will feel the same.

[@davidwilliams2377]

Really liked this video. Handling in my opinion it 100% a marketing term, it's all about promotion. Loads of cars share parts and chassis yet they're rated differently despite in some cases being the same car but with a different badge? Car journalists in general I find come across as boosting their own stock, the Chris Harris review of the 205 Rallye comes to mind every time. What makes it even worse is that people parrot what these influencers say even though they've zero experience.