Is The Michipicoten A Death Trap?

[@ConnorTenold]

It's really heart warming to see so many people concerned for the crew's safety! :) Thoughts on the video?

[@gonepostal9101]

A lot of it depends on how hard the ship is used. I had a friend who was on the crew of the Anderson the night the Fitz went down, and he said EVERYBODY knew how hard that boat was abused. The Fitz at one time was the “Queen of the Lakes”, and the company took pride in loading her as heavy as possible, and setting shipping records for the Lakes.

[@Nerdthan2]

This is something I’ve always questioned, nothing can be pushed at 100% maximum for its entire service life and still be expected to be in sound work order. I know in the construction industry we push everything to 110% of recommendations. The shipping industry has even more reason to push a ship to its limits.

[@johanea]

So EVERYBODY knew, yet crew happily signed on… Smart crew.

[@gonepostal9101]

@@johanea in 1974, ya did what you were told, or ya didn’t have a job.

[@b.t.7971]

Does your friend know a guy named Howard Hopkins?

[@gonepostal9101]

@@b.t.7971 no idea, Ernie’s in a home now, and doesn’t remember much.

[@LB-bw4vj]

Interesting content and a lot of great pictures. Well done Conner.

[@ConnorTenold]

Thanks!

[@Cletrac305]

This was SERIOUS AND NO JOKE! This was no small boat. It weighed about 3/4 of the Titanic! I see that some commented that the crewman was being "melodramatic " and in no real danger. When you're below decks, hear a loud bang and see the tunnel bend, you may have SECONDS left. There's usually no transverse bulkheads, it takes over a mile to stop, shoveling water into a severed hull. The cargo sloshes over to the low side. Bulk cargo is the most dangerous kind. the unloading boom drags it over especially if the latches don't hold and it swings over. You have to man your pumps, counter ballast, or mabey stay underway to beach. The Fitzgeralds after section capsized and the bridge went from a 2 degree list with the pumps "holding their own" and the ship going along fine "like an old shoe" to hitting the bottom 600ft down in 6 SECONDS! It took much longer for the Cedarville to sink after a collision, they tried to patch, counterflood, pump, and went two more miles to beach with a ship escorting them to help. 10 men lost their lives when she rolled and sank in full view of land just a few miles from the mackinac bridge! There's a video of a ship breaking in half at sea (supposedly an old laker) with many distress calls made in full view of other ships, several deaths. These people take hull cracks VERY seriously!

[@danielkapp9468]

All I see when I look at the Michipicoten is the Carl D. Bradley. Most of these freighers seem to have the same point of failure, structural failure amidships after long term longitudinal and shear stresses. If they of been even in a minor storm the ship would of gone down quickly. Hopefully it doesn't end up at the bottom. I will say they can overhaul the ship to keep it operational, but they'd almost be better off removing the entire cargo hold and replacing it with a more modern design as a couple other lakers have done.

[@ddvette]

Metal fatigue happens to any structure exposed to. cyclic loading. Can not be reversed.

[@philippetays4263]

you are 100 percent right. As a farmer i have seen metal fatigue many times . Inspection under microscope will show hundreds of spiderline cracks. rewelding and patching loooks good but the base metal is failing. tjhis cannot be halted, sometimes one must just start over anew.

[@phillipgarrow2297]

As a certified welder I totally agree a lot of people don't realize it

[@SteamCrane]

0:14 - That big bridge isn't there anymore. RIP 6 workers.

[@laurenolson8492]

Thank you for the history!!!! I was there when she came into Two Harbors for that last load! A crew member was on the stern on a stationary bike. Almost like he was "powering" her in! LOL I hope and pray she sails again for many years!

[@jamesbraun9842]

I'm pretty sure the company wants to keep it around. They don't have any spare vessels at least ones that can fit out turn key. When their other boats have to do the Michipicoten route it takes money away or time for repairs.

[@ConnorTenold]

For sure the company wants to keep her around.

[@86dieselman]

I know Rand Logistics has in recent years scrapped a number of vessels, including some repowered to diesel. Doesn’t Rand Logistics still own the Former SS Armco? Last I knew the vessel was mothballed in Toledo.

[@bakerbill4274]

Rand has a track record of not spending money for repairs until they are forced to do so.

[@dknowles60]

there are a lot of ships in storage that can be purchase on the Cheap

[@dknowles60]

@@bakerbill4274 sp did USS steel

[@Rose-SingingWolf]

People are concerned, not because they don’t inspect or have rules & regs in place, but because ships often get to defer maintenance & in the past problems were glossed over, overlooked etc. Leading to the loss of lives. We have to be able to trust those in authority to do the right thing. Right. People on land at the top doin a cost/benefit analysis weighing risk to life against profits. And the rules are truly written in blood.

[@frednone]

If that was a stress fracture, it's only a matter of time.

[@eliinthewolverinestate6729]

Great video. The great lakes wave spacing is kind of unique. And the fact of square waves or confused seas. The waves usually aren't large waves like the oceans. Except rogue waves on Huron.

[@ConnorTenold]

Thank you!

[@jeffpotipco736]

The night the Danial j Morrell sank, the wind was blowing one way and the and the sea was running the other. Ocean waves rise and swell. On the lakes they're bang, bang bang one after the other.

[@tgfabthunderbird1]

Money. The cost of a new vessel or buying another hits the bottom line too hard. Sail 'em till they sink, and you hope they sink near to shore, like this time. That's why this boat keeps sailing.

[@topgun1457]

thats why they most likely replace hull plates since it would be cheapest option to just rehull the Michipicoten

[@dknowles60]

Wrong. the Shiping companys dont care if the ship is un safe or not,

[@HahnJames]

You did a great job with this video, Connor. You are correct. There are no guarantees. There are no guarantees with anything that humans put their hands to, not even in the construction of space vehicles. In fact, there is only one true guarantee that I can think of.

[@nattybumpo7156]

Two. Death and taxes.

[@ConnorTenold]

Thank you! Nothing we do or create is perfect.

[@HahnJames]

@@ConnorTenold You are correct, Connor Tenold. Many would disagree with your statement, though. I think of these people as being like a spec of sand lying on a beach thinking that it can tell the stars in the sky and the rest of God's creation as a whole how it should order itself.

[@robertturtle]

Nice one! Do you know where the picture at 2:48 was taken? There is a building similar to the one in the picture in Cleveland,OH.

[@324bear]

I know absolutely nothing about the Great Lakes shipping insurance industry, but my bet is that is whos making the decision on the Michipicoten! Thanks for a great video!

[@ConnorTenold]

Your welcome!

[@dknowles60]

i hope so the Us coast guard sure has not done its Job

[@herseem]

You may well be right. The insurance business often makes decisions that amount to an effective degree of control - such as whether a specific actor is fit enough to be in a film and have production insured at a reasonable price. But in my view this is a good thing in some respects because they can often be very wise as to risks that affect the likelihood of disaster, and these are worth paying attention to.

[@jamesjennings8956]

@@dknowles60it’s not uscg🤦🏼‍♂️ it’s a Canadian ship

[@dknowles60]

@@jamesjennings8956 if it is in us waters it is under Us coast Rules

[@EricDaMAJ]

In the video you showed last month the Michipicoten is not only listing, the hull looks like it is torqued between fore and aft. It looks fine in dock now but that's very concerning.

[@justinolsen9284]

She always has that look

[@EricDaMAJ]

@@justinolsen9284 Not in the old pics and not even the current ones of her in dock.

[@navelriver]

Previous inspections to the ship did not detect the stress area. The hull is made out of the same old steel that fractured without warning. What if the crack had continued? Those sailors could have been lost. Could it not fracture again without warning? I think the particular batch of steel from which the ship was made combined with the ship's unique history could mean the steel has reached its safe limit. Other old ships would not have identical steel and would have their own history so it is difficult to determine exactly when to remove a ship from service.

[@topgun1457]

well if they can fix the Michipicoten they will most likely replace the hull plates in the area of the crack hell replace all of the hull plates to give the Michipicoten a new hull would be cheaper then a new ship

[@dknowles60]

@@topgun1457 That was going to be done on the Carl Bradley but it is always just give me 1 more year i been told it was going to be done on the Edumond Fix after the last trip

[@homeaccount1524]

While, yes the ship is older and there have been a lot of stresses on it over the years and the design has some question about how sound it is, the weak aka brittle steel was no longer used by the time she was launched in 1952. The steel process changed slightly in the 1940s making a less brittle steel as a result.

[@dknowles60]

@@homeaccount1524 i know a ship called the Fitz built of 1958 steel that sank

[@dknowles60]

@@homeaccount1524 Tact remains the same to days coast Guard are wimps

[@turboprint3d]

I have experiance with the mitch . Been a few years but i know a captain for lower lakes personally and worked for a contractor doing work while docked . Lots of interesting rumours floating around over the years . Was there when the manatulin did an engine test , while stern to stern. The mitch's rutter was dissconected and was forced by the wake of the other ship . This could have hurt people , and me any my coworker spent the weekend fixing the steering system.

[@rossbryan6102]

BEING AN CARREER LOCOMOTIVE MECHANICAL GUY, THIS STORY RMINDS ME OF THE PLIGHTS OF THE EMD SD -24 SERIES LOCOMOTIVE WITH THEIR MAINFRAME TENDENCIES TO CRACK, IN THE AREA OF THE MAIN TRACTION GENERATOR OR TRACTION ALTERNATOR IF AN UPGRADE WAS DONE! AS THEY ARE 6 AXLE LOCOMOTIVES, RATHER THAN 4 AXLE THE FRAME IS LONGER THAN THE GP-20 TYPE! THE FRAME PROBLEM HERE IS THE INSUFFICIENT HEIGHT OF THE SD24 MAINFRAME! THIS WAS DONE POSSIBLY FOR AN APPEARANCE ISSUE TO KEEP THESE LOCOMOTIVES CLOSE TO SIMILAR OPERATING HEIGHTS TO EARLIER MODELS OF EMD LOCOMOTIVES. THESE PROBLEMS LED TO THE SD-40/45 FRAMES BEING HIGHER PROFILE TO RESIST THE TWISTING STRESSES OF LOCMOTIVE FRAMES! IN THE CASE OF THIS SHIP , THE FRAME IS LONGER , THE LOAD IS HEAVIER, AND THE METAL IS OLDER AND LIFE TIME STRESSED! SOONER OR LATER , PARK HER AND REPLACE WITH NEW!! KEEP THEM ROLLING BROTHERS!! 👍👍

[@mellissadalby1402]

Last I heard, the Michipicoten failed her inspection so I thought she was to be scrapped. Are they not scrapping her?

[@homeaccount1524]

She didn't get cleared to return and they are asking for a drydock extension.

[@mwrcrft]

Interesting history of the ship, the ships future will be decided by economics as it can be repaired as steel can be replaced but at what cost and is it insurable and at what cost. This ship has had so many modifications over the years that it will be interesting if they share the survey to see the cause of failure.

[@randoliof]

Blows me away how old some of the ships are on the Lakes

[@adriannegrillo8394]

Thank you Connor for a great story and history of her. Well done!!

[@ConnorTenold]

Thank you!

[@JLange642]

The quote from that crew member is a bit silly. They were in calm waters and even had the ship gone down they were not in danger of being lost. A bit melodramatic of them!

[@topgun1457]

agreed the Michipicoten was being shadowed by a coastguard ship and another freighter so rescue would have came every quick if the Michipicoten would have started to sink so that level of dramatic was not needed

[@Cletrac305]

a loud bang, seeing the bend in the hull down the tunnel suddenly appears, and you take on a 15deg list while being below decks manning your station, to operate pumps and counterflood before help arrives knowing that there's no transverse bulkheads and she's taking on 300 tons every half hour liquifying the cargo and further stressing the hull means the next bang and almost certian sudden capsizing could be the last thing you hear! the Fitzgeralds after section capsized, and estimates state they went from being above the water with a TWO degree list and the pumps "holding their own" to hitting bottom 600ft down in 6 SECONDS, no time for a distress call. it takes more than a mile to stop, shoveling water into the severed half. the Cedarville lost 10 lives, after many minutes of patching, pumping, and re ballsating, traveling 2 miles to try to beach. They were within a few miles of mackinac Island, and the ship that hit them was standing by to help. There's video of an old lakes boat riding at anchor at sea that broke in half distress calls made, many ships visible around, abandon ship ordered several minutes pass, many lives lost. This was NO JOKE!

[@tmayer0009]

Fantastic job on this video Connor!❤

[@ConnorTenold]

Thank you so much!

[@tmayer0009]

@@ConnorTenold you’re very welcome

[@messiahsbythesackful6267]

Thank you for all your updates.

[@dockweilerrefugee6679]

Great video! So true no vessel is 100% safe!

[@ConnorTenold]

Thanks!

[@jeanhutchinson6198]

The ship at 0:53 is the Stewart J. Cort, one of the thousand footers on the lakes.

[@wavekube4343]

Great video, recently subscribed, I enjoy your videos, I hope to see many more. please consider doing some videos on the Hulett ore unloaders.

[@ConnorTenold]

Thank you! Will do!

[@bakerbill4274]

Your commentary shows how little you understand about the maritime industry. First, if a ship is "repaired" it is ABSOLUTELY NOT as safe as any other. That's like thinking that since you replaced the head gasket on your '79 Chevette, that it's "just as capable" as any other vehicle currently on the road. Second, the company wants the vessel to pass inspection so they can continue to make money without having to buy a new ship. Third, (and most importantly) the vessel, cargo, and any potential damage caused by sinking is all fully insured. Scrapping it is not. From a financial standpoint, the BEST outcome is for the ship to sink. The company DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE CREW. If the ship sinks, they will place the blame on the Captain for taking out an unsafe ship. If a Captain DOES refuse to take out an unsafe ship, the company will fire him and replace him with someone else that will.

[@topgun1457]

if they repair the Michipicoten they will most likely just look at doing a hull plate refit and just replace all the hull plates since that is still cheaper then scraping the ship and even more cheaper then buying a new ship

[@dknowles60]

@@topgun1457 How good is the rest of the Ship Are its engines on its last legs many things to look at

[@ConnorTenold]

True. I'm glad you brought this up to me. I do quite obviously don't have the experience or knowledge in these things as you do. I'm always looking to learn new things so thanks for bringing these points to my attention.

[@thomas1910]

I work in this industry, and yeah this is a really goofy video. OC is correct in everything he wrote. You’re better off taking it down and revising it if you care about accuracy. Being Captain isn’t at all what it’s choked up to be, you’re constantly being criticized by the company for productivity and expenses and when there’s an accident they attempt to crucify you regardless of how much you were involved, if at all.

[@maggiespeaks8555]

in your reply shows you know even less about the maritime industry if you’re comparing an ore ship with a head gasket on a 79 Corvette. Stick to your lane dude. The ship is a self-unloader which is much less wear and tear than other ships of that era. They just replaced her engines in the early 2000s if you were listening, the company wouldn’t do that if they thought she was on her last legs. she was not made with the pre-1948 “brittle steel“ that caused ships like the Daniel Morrell, Carl D Bradley and others of that early 1900 ships that sank. If she passes her inspection, she’s a freshwater not saltwater vessel and has many many more years of service. Stick to changing the spark plugs on your ‘vette. Connor did a great job explaining the situation

[@katherinespencer2633]

The insurance company will determine its fate. The USCG and safety officials can have their say, but insuring a vessel with this history, will be tough.

[@dknowles60]

and the USCG is not doing a very good job at Safety

[@MERCENARYREVY]

Your profile banner looks awesome.

[@ConnorTenold]

Thanks!

[@scottburns2600]

I would not want to be sailing on her during her next November transit

[@Satori079]

Quality channel man

[@tadecker82]

Every time I see a Great Lakes ore hauler, all I hear is: 🎵 "The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee, Superior they said, never gives up her dead When the gales of November come early..." 🎶

[@SteamCrane]

That history is pretty mild compared to many other lake boats. Quite a few have been in collisions, and even sunk, but still sailing.

[@a.j.3633]

Cheaper to dry dock and put new hull on than a brand new ship. Even if out of commission for year. I can see it being required to have more safety features added as well. And require more inspection periods.

[@redeyedmongoose2963]

You did mean that is sarcasm, right?

[@maggiespeaks8555]

The Fitzgerald hit six fathoms shoal, reported leaks and pumps on and sank because it bottomed out. Other ships like the Daniel J Morrell, Edward Townsend and the Carl D Bradley were made from steel before 1948 which was known as “brittle steel“. Finally we are talking freshwater ships which have a much much longer lifetime than saltwater ships. If she is repairable she should have many more years of good service

[@bakerbill4274]

@maggiespeaks8555 thought so. You're DEFINITELY a company hack (either Rand or similar POS company). LCA (association of ship owners) blamed the loss of the Fitzgerald on the crew running aground. EVERY company that has ever lost a ship blamed the crew, regardless of ANY evidence. Same here. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Fitzgerald stuck the bottom. It was simply a ploy by the company to absolve themselves of any responsibility for the deaths of the crew. The tactic of blaming the crew has been used forever.

[@markb1764]

Reliability and safety become bigger issues with everything as it ages and especially if one is trying to compete with modern efficiency

[@dominicwood3451]

I don't know enough about the situation to judge either way. But from the pictures of the ship I don'r see a fast launch inflatable liferaft either side of the wheelhouse, and I think there should be a nose plunger type on the stern also. If shes still on mainly her original frames and keel, this is pushing it. Surely these things are built with a finite lifespan from the start? She may be repaired structurally sound but it doesnt mean that decades of new thinking in naval architecture can be retrofitted to this ship.

[@johanea]

Amazing how much scrap is sailing on the Great…. Really developing country standard.

[@dknowles60]

The Michipicoten is very un safe and is a death Trap the Us Cost guard has become big wimps . the Edward Townsend had the same Damage and the Us coast guard took its Sailing Papers, the Coast Guard would not let the Edward Townsend go to the Fraser Ship Yards

[@topgun1457]

that's because townsend had a shit load of hull cracks that were on both of the sides of and along the keel and a huge weather deck fracture that made sailing it at all a hazard and the Michipicoten only has a single 13ft crack which is a lot easier to repair

[@dknowles60]

@@topgun1457 the Micipcoten was not much better. if we had the 1966 Us coast guard rules the Micipcoten would have not been allow to sail how young are you, the only thing that has save the Micipoten is Insurance Companies Dont allow gREAT LAKES ships TO SAIL IN VERY BAD WEATHEr there have been ship sinkings in my life time with loss of life Cedarville1966 Daniel Morrell 1966, Edmund Fitzgerald 1975. the good news is in the End the Insurance Companies will have the Final say, its said to see how Much the Us coast Guard has fallen sine 1966 ,

[@docksidemarine4273]

The mich is not "very unsafe" ive spent 100s of hours in the holds, ballast tanks and all over this ship (put the diesel engines in almost 15 years ago). This ship is in quite good condition other then the crack. It will be repaired and back in service. The dramatic bullshit coming from the armchair experts is insane. Most people talking out their asses look like total fools to those who actually work on and maintain these ships. Thanks for the laughs anyways

[@dknowles60]

@@docksidemarine4273 it is very unsafe, it may need a new cargo hold built,

[@dknowles60]

@@docksidemarine4273 Thanks for your Laughs Any ways, how young are you

[@legothoron1]

i think i may have seen this ship myself here on the Welland Canal, though it's been a while since i was there

[@KomarBrolan]

I don’t understand this video. I heard on the news the inspection found the ship too damaged to repair and was to be scrapped. Also the crew had been laid off already. Why are we still talking about this?

[@audreyjohnson4599]

The Michipicoten has not been scrapped as of the middle of August. As a matter of fact, she was just moved to layup berth by the tugs Missouri and Kentucky on August 16, 2024.

[@Kaidhicksii]

Based on what I've heard here, people are overreacting. The ship is fine: if anything she's just beginning to show her age.

[@PereMarquette1223]

I believe all of the sisters of the Michipicoten all had some kind of hull failure at some point in their careers. Something with the design of these just didn't sit well.

[@shawnmcandrew6923]

Ship is cursed with bad luck. Scrap it and keep the crews safe. Too many issues and its pushing its luck its come back too many times. The next may not be so lucky.

[@dcoslet1]

The one photo is the Cort

[@dknowles60]

the Only reason ship are not sailing in very bad storms is the Insurance Companys

[@dragongaming479]

does anyone know were the love of god goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours

[@Frontenac602]

Very old Lakers in action now...

[@anastasiszaroliagis5066]

Must retired, too old...😮

[@pixie706]

Third time lucky ..give her a chance if possible

[@louisglen1653]

I don't understand why the crew member thought their lives would end at any time. They do have life boats on it.

[@topgun1457]

agreed and the ship was being shadowed by a coastguard ship and another freighter so rescue would have came every quick if the Michipicoten would have started to founder

[@bakerbill4274]

ALL ships have lifeboats, but it takes time to launch them. On a GOOD day, it takes about 10 minutes to load and launch a lifeboat. That process does not begin until the Captain calls abandon ship. If the ship rolls, the boats are useless. If the ship lists heavily, the boats on the high side are useless while launching the ones on the low side is nearly suicidal. The REAL danger is hypothermia. In Lake Superior, you have about an hour before death. The time between sending a distress call and being plucked out of the water is typically longer than that.

[@shawnmcandrew6923]

If the ship has a catastrophic failure you may be in the location where it happens, meaning your toast or you wont have time to reach the life boats if your in the mechanical spaces on the ship.

[@danalarose846]

​@topgun1457 that's right, and a helicopter.

[@oldjarhead386]

It’s bad luck to change the name of a boat.

[@jamesstuart3346]

It's Mih-shippa-COAT-en and Al-GOH-ma

[@dianarose4122]

Mr. Downworthy! WHY are you so convinced the Michipicoten is a death trap? Why don't you go and sail on the Great Lakes and start to get actual knowledge of how the subjects work?

[@ConnorTenold]

Never said she was and I don't think she is. I made points in the video that if the vessel passes inspection she's just as safe as any other.

[@bakerbill4274]

What's YOUR expertise? I've been sailing for 25 years, and I don't know of ANYONE willing to get on that POS, let alone go to work for that company.

[@dknowles60]

@@bakerbill4274 i hope your right

[@bakerbill4274]

@ConnorTenold every ship that has sank "passed inspection." The problem is the USCG is not knowledgeable when it comes to most things. They're good at inspecting paperwork and observing drills, but when it comes to anything mechanical/structural, they really don't know what they're looking at. Its incredibly easy for a Chief Engineer to pull the wool over their eyes. Can't tell you the number of times I've seen an Engineer clean up a spill or paint a pipe, hoping the inspector won't notice it.

[@ConnorTenold]

@@bakerbill4274 Is it just laziness on all their parts then? Or is there more to it?

[@herseem]

I thought it was supposed to be unlucky to re-name ships? Is that just a British thing?

[@NorthernElevations]

It happens pretty regularly on the Great Lakes - a lot of these freighters used to be owned by steel companies, and named after their current owners/captains/ports. When the steel markets crashed, lots of ships were sold, and many were renamed to align with the new owners alignments

[@WhiskeyGulf71]

Wow, that interview with the crew ! What a bunch of drama queens !

[@bakerbill4274]

Really? How long have you been sailing?

[@0e32]

iron coffin!!

[@DolphinWD]

"Towed up the Mississippi to Chicago" 😂

[@rael5469]

There are two Ts in cotten. It is pronounced Mich-i-pico-ten.

[@MikeHunt-fo3ow]

make some more videos please

[@motormech1h343]

I thought it was being scrapped

[@justinolsen9284]

No

[@MikeHunt-fo3ow]

you should be happy with the length you were born and not try and lengthen it

[@michaelConner-e7s]

GET RID OF it...before it becomes a liability..like fitzgerald

[@UQRXD]

I would not crew a 72 year old ship.

[@redeyedmongoose2963]

Scrap the ship, before she kills someone

[@marklangren3142]

A bunch of people make a living on bad news

[@lchaput7721]

Pure, 100%, 6th-grade garbage.

[@swamprat69er]

The boat is 72 years old. Time for it to retire, I think.

[@stephaniethomasson8812]

Uh…. Don’t know much about laker freighters do you? That’s a pretty standard age. The fresh water doesn’t corrode like salt does so the ships live a long time

[@henrytupper6959]

@@stephaniethomasson8812 correct, but some boats carry salt.