Is the Tie Fighter MORE SURVIVABLE Than We Realized?

[@GenerationTech]

All Lightsabers 40% OFF ownasaber.com/ + Free Shipping Promo Code "EWOK" for additional $15 OFF

[@lennartgamer2339]

Hallo Freund

[@FirstIntoHell]

The B21 has been built the Prototype has already been built and it's already going into production

[@FirstIntoHell]

I saw the reveal on KZbin it was badass it was all white

[@bobsterclause342]

Of course it's more survivable than we thought. If it doesn't get hit by a rock and start spaking, destabilize, and spin out of control and then explode, yeah it's very survivable. The only problem with this very survivable pile of tnt is that it's not made out of the fillers that make tnt not explode if you don't want it to, jus goes boom. you crash land? uh oh, chain reaction. Yeah as long as it doesn't explode, yeah. Just don't come in too hot and you might survive a crash landing, just try to land fast enough to knock of the wings with out it going boom and if you don't, coming in too slowly, you will tumble. Atleast your inertial dampener may still work.

[@Sujad]

BLASTER! They're BLASTERS! Not lasers! Where the fuck has this thing with calling Star Wars blasters lasers! They're not lasers.

[@philwithcheese]

As a fighter jet maintainer for 13 years I can confirm the biggest threat isn't poor maintenance. It is pilots. We lost or heavily damaged 6 F16s in my time as a maintainer for the Air National Guard. All were pilot error.

[@colejosephalexanderkashay683]

At least in usaf look at Russia

[@john-paulsilke893]

Most of the soldiers I know who died while serving were as a result of training, slip and falls, cancer and car accidents. The most tragic were of course stupid guys doing stupid stuff like deploying a parachute on the back of a fast moving truck, (deuce and a half) or coyote scout vehicle.

[@gabrielandradeferraz386]

Only because you are very good at your job sir, and very well equiped to do it.

[@viktoriyaserebryakov2755]

@@colejosephalexanderkashay683 Would like to see a source for whatever it is you're referring to.

[@colejosephalexanderkashay683]

@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 oryx database for RUS losses during the invasion of Ukraine; for fixed wing fighter, multirole, and ground attack aircraft, 14% of all in-air losses were due " a non combat related incidents that have been attributed in the west to poor airframe/aircraft maintenance and storage

[@sergeipohkerova7211]

Judging from A New Hope, Tie fighters were just as sturdy as X wings: one shot pretty much killed them unless you had Luke or Wedge plot armor.

[@laisphinto6372]

people really ignore the actual movies in these conversation like the myth that TIEs are only good in numbers but the same amount of TIE fighters or even less than the rebel force Attacking the death star almost wiped out the entire rebel strike force from the thirty only 3 made it out alive

[@leonrussell9607]

​@@laisphinto6372 the rebels were stuck in the trench, making them easier targets

[@nick-hu1nx]

@@leonrussell9607 there is an X-wing that does take one direct hit before they are in the trench and gets blown up, the did set shields to double forward at the start of the scene so its possible he had no rear shields, but i think its simply that close range you can still penetrate shields. which is part of what makes close range dogfights make sense in the setting.

[@Spectacular_Insanity]

@@laisphinto6372 In A New Hope, TIE pilots were actually OUTNUMBERED. Only Vader's Black Squadron was deployed (12 TIE ln and 1 TIE Advanced) and the Rebels had 30 fighters (X-Wings and Y-WIngs). Yes, many were shot down in the trench run (mostly Y-Wings), but many X-Wings were just plain shot down in dogfighting because the Black Squadron pilots were some of the best in the Empire.

[@richardlahan7068]

The X-Wing pilots had shifted all power to their forward shields, leaving their rears exposed.

[@travishabursky4362]

All things considered, if you’re directly behind a TIE fighter, the cross-section is going to be pretty difficult to hit as you’re really aiming for center mass. If you pitch that airframe up or down, the cross-section remains the same. The only time that changes is when the TIE would pitch left or right. If your gun skills relies on accuracy by volume, you’re going to be throwing a lot down range before you score good hits.

[@SimonBauer7]

which is why the x Wing had 4 lasercannons...

[@Jasiuc330]

​@@SimonBauer7and TIE front mounted cannons that allows them for precision shooting

[@geoffreymowbray6789]

Tie fighter is comparable to the Imperial Japanese Navy's Zero fighter of 1941/42. Their pilots were the most experience in the world with a highly maneuverable fighter with no armour. Their advantage in extended realist combat training and actual combat experience against the Chinese gave the Japanese advantage against all allied fighters with less experienced pilots who had less hours of flying experience. The attritional fighting against the allies in 1942 with the Japanese not having an adequate replacement pilot training structure gave the advantage to the allies in 1943 onwards.

[@red9mm]

That's an awesome comparison

[@aliastheabnormal]

The Rebels didn't have a massive industrial military complex backing them like the Mustang's had. It was just an attempt to clone a droid fighter only that Tarkin was too racist to realized that droid fighters worked because they were soulless mass produced drones.

[@Bobspineable]

I would say MiG-21 as well. It’s a short range interceptor while the US went for a multi role design in the F-4

[@donnym3415]

And the upgrade models are the zeros varients, maybe the avenger and defender being the J2M2 raidans

[@alexwest2573]

@@BobspineableAnd both the F4 and Mig 21 are still being flown by countries today, both are beautiful jets.

[@cobalt968]

It’s a bit odd how the Sith Empire in the old republic era saw fit to outfit their fighters with a token shield system to ensure that they wouldn’t be lost to debris or micrometeorites, whereas the Galactic Empire didn’t. I guess Sith back then were just built different.

[@thechroniclegamer4285]

Their fighters also served as shuttles and stuff and mobile command centers though

[@raveshaw6161]

The Sith Empire had a Numerical disadvantage most of the time, unlike the Galactic Empire, the Sith couldn't afford these losses. Thats why Sith Empire Capital Ships were often Automated with a large Droid Complement to replace trained Crewmen, or used a Slave contingent for hazardous work, like maintaining the Silencer Cannon's from Harrower Dreadnoughts because they were highly radioactive when it fired, and actual Imperials were too valuable. In the great galactic war, the Sith blitzed through most of the Republic's defences because the Republic needed time to build up and unify their militaries, while Superior Capital Ships like the Harrower made short work of the Hammerheads. On a Starfighter Level the Sith also used Swarm Tactics similar to the TIE Fighter line, but since they didn't have the population for long attrition warfare they also needed every form of defence they could get meanwhile maintain the nimble and fast designs of the Supremacy Starfighter line.

[@NuggetWorkshop]

Old republic was like USA vs USSR, one nation fighting another. Galactic civil war is what it says, a (somewhat) civil war. Think like Afghanistan, either terrorist or freedom fighters. You dont know who is tipping off the enemy.

[@andrewmeyer3599]

The Sith Empire was fielding and arming a military force for war. The Empire was fielding and arming, first and foremost, a police force. Two vastly different types of armed forces that do and need different equipment

[@johnquach8821]

Strangely enough, the Aurek class fighters by the Old Republic had minimal shields (and some even had no shields) (admittedly they were more like A-Wings than TIE fighters, but the point is made). Perhaps the Republic also decided on the conclusion of mobility over shields.

[@timothybrandriff6499]

I've always viewed TIE fighters as the SW version of the MiG-21. Amazing when they first came out, quickly outmatched by better technology, but cheap, easy to produce, and can still give superior fighters a hard time by overwhelming them with numerical superiority. And still vastly superior to anything a civilian could get a hold of.

[@reidveryan9414]

That or the A6M zero-sen

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

I really wish we’d get a Star Wars show or game that showed the true deadliness of the TIE line. Imagine if your first time flying a ship in Star Wars Outlaws: you go up and see a TIE, and think “ah, I’ll hit it once and it’ll blow up” only for it to dodge every shot you fire and then swing around and rake your shields down to 2% after a single pass, and it can just wail on you and stay behind you, above you, around you, and pretty much anywhere but in front of your guns, and you have to run from any TIE until you either install a ball turret or sneak in and get in a surprise hit.

[@teakat9608]

In the game Tie Fighter, you get to play as an Imperial Tie pilot. The game is rather old, though there's a total conversion mod for X-wing vs TIe Fighter which seeks to re-create the game with slightly better controls and graphics. I highly recommend it if you haven't given it a go.

[@JJJBunney001]

Squadrons did a pretty good job at that, the fact that imperial and rebel ships weren't just reskins really showed how nimble ties could be

[@slewone4905]

It's the video games fault. They wanted to make you feel like a bad A** so they nerfed the Tie fighters. But the movies, the tie was far better than the storm troopers kill ratio That is the movies, oppose to tv series and animated shows.

[@mattsolo1853]

​@@JJJBunney001 yeah I played It and its pretty good 👍

[@randallsanchez3161]

Watch some Squadrons c9mp3titions, Top pilots absolute dominzte against xwing pilots. Their extra speed and manueverability make them absolute monsters. The main counter is to get awings

[@arthurbrandonnielsen]

Next, talk about the other misunderstood aspects of the equipment used by the Empire: Example: Stormtrooper Armor is not the 1-hit Kill people often think it is. Unless your weapon is high yield (Chewbacca), modded for armor penetration (Han), a lightsaber (Luke), or you have pinpoint accuracy (Leia), that Trooper you shot isn't dead. They're in Medical Shock. Except for the guy who fell down the shaft in ANH while Wilhelm Screaming. He's dead. The real issues with Stormtrooper Armor, as noted by Captain Rex, are the lower quality material and ill fit, both consequences of expanded mass production. This is in contrast to Clone Armor, which only had to fit a smaller of identical individuals, granting a higher quality and near-perfect fit with a single mold.

[@garlixbread]

They use the same material as clones though. Plastoid used by both clones and Stormtoroopers, even Vader's armor used a mix of plastoid and plasteel. The armor has better HUD enchancements smoke filter etc. So it is undoubtably better than Clone armor, this includes their blasters which had immaculate cooling compared to clone weaponry, even the New Republic kept using them.

[@arthurbrandonnielsen]

@@garlixbread They may be using the same material, the the quality and manufacture is noted as being worse in both Legendsverse and Disneyverse. A "better" HUD that causes your trooper's accuracy to noticeably drop is hardly an improvement either.

[@garlixbread]

@@arthurbrandonnielsen Their lesser accuracy is moreso a writing inconsistency, their aim was on point in all OT movies.

[@pauln6917]

TIE fighters are also relying on the anti-fighter (AAA) batteries of Imperial capital ships. The Capital ships covering the rear of the TIEs and the TIE luring the Rebel ships into the range of the capital ships AAA.

[@redenginner]

And the Imperial Navy deleted their dedicated anti starfighter batteries on all post clone wars designs.

[@sumukhvmrsat6347]

Broooo , There are no Anti air Defences on imperial ships

[@calebbarnhouse496]

​@@sumukhvmrsat6347yes there are, laser cannons exist on almost every imperial ship, they are just not enough of them on the ship, nor on the parts that need them

[@mausypanzer5142]

@@redenginner why not the octuple barbette turbolaser batteries I mean they can act as Anti Aircraft Batteries, though they are less effective.

[@emberthecatgirl8796]

What AA? The only AA batteries the Imperials had was those in their comlinks.

[@lancer737]

@Generation Tech I liked the video. I have a couple things i need to point out. *1 Imperial Fighters do have the superior Sensor and Targeting systems, as stated in "Incredble Vehicles and Vessels" along with the "Star Wars TIE FIGHTER" novel/guide. You are right though, that the data feed from bases and capships will also help the TIEs alot. Also TIE INTERCEPTORS and DEFENDERS have the most advanced Targeting computers during the Civil War out of every factions fighters. *2 The materials used in TIEs, and in effect Rebel fighters, is more durable than we thought. Unshielded TIE Interceptors chased Gold Squadron and the character from SW Rebels, through a nebula full of forming stars. Nebulas full of proto stars internally is putting out immense radiation, heat, the gravity fileds from all the proto stars forming and absorbing one another. In real life we got nothing that can survive that. Also ill add the Targeting systems for the Interceptors, Defender, and Rebels were only slightly hampered at most desperate all the titanic Electromagnetic fields, heat, and gravity in the area they are flying in. Star Treks sensors are nulled in much less hostile nebulas.

[@Unknown-hm7qx]

Star Trek's ships suck in general. Simple space debris can take out vital systems on the ST ships, and even though they scream "Shields up" or "Sir, our shields are losing power" no change happens to the oncoming damage to the ship, a hit does the same damage to a ship with or without shields. Meanwhile in Star Wars, shields actually greatly improve the survivability of the ship. For instance, in the Phantom Menace, when the queen, Obi Wan, and Qui Gon are leaving Naboo, their ship was taking close to no damage until their shields were knocked out. Or in Empire Strikes Back, the Millenium Falcon takes a hit from a star destroyer, and suffers almost no damage, then when it's unshielded takes a hit from a tie fighter and suffers good damage.

[@daylanhicks9096]

I will say. Your videos and commentary styles keep me locked in. The editing keeps me looking when I’m watching or if I’m at work and just have the AirPods in the commentary makes the day go by faster. Please don’t stop tech. “MOREEEEEEEE”.

[@BillyBOB-sm3rl]

The M1 tank does have a slope. It maybe a boxy style. The turret and front does have a slope. There was and still is a lot of science. To decide on the angle of that slope. I have worked on the tank, driven the tank. And even painted them.

[@shaider1982]

Yup. Also, sloping works if the material is ductile like steel. For ceramic armor, this doesn’t work.

[@yamatokurusaki5790]

Also composite armor inside is also angled

[@Riceball01]

@@shaider1982 You can slope any kind of armor, regardless of what it's made of. All sloped armor is armor that's put at an angle. What you can't do with ceramic type armor like Chobam is make it rounded, which is why tanks like the M1 and the Challenger are made of flat sides pieces of armor that are set and angle on the front of the hull and turret.

[@atoll8423]

@@Riceball01 ??? can't the layers be forged as curves?

[@Riceball01]

@@atoll8423 Apparently not, something to do with the ceramic materials used. There's something about them that only allows them to be created in flat slabs. Why that is, I have no idea.

[@aaronjohnson2565]

I've always thought the TIE is under-rated by many, and that a mix of an F-16 and F-35 comp makes sense for the platform. Highly maneuverable, mass producible, with a focus on cutting edge avionics. The limited viewport often gets criticized, but I've always imagined that that is a backup system, and that TIE pilots actually have a helmet sight similar to F-35 pilots that allows them to see through the walls in 360 degrees. Ultimately, its a design that is a good fit for the Empire's military strategy, designed to compliment and protect their crown jewel, the Star Destroyer.

[@thomasandriessen1046]

And the biggest advantage of all: doesn't need a lot of maintenance

[@fpena6038]

It is actually described in multiple Star Wars books that TIE Fighter pilot helmets did have the ability to look "through" the airframe like an F-35's helmet can. In fact, I've believed for many years now that perhaps the F-35's helmet look-thru ability was inspired by TIE helmets.

[@High_Key]

I’m definitely certain all helmets with visors including storm/snow/scout troopers have some sort of augmented reality system providing real time data on certain things like a HUD.

[@NostraDahut]

*Thanks SIENNAR SYSTEMS for sponsorizing todays video*

[@WhoisPersona]

The T.I.E series was rather modular, if that was on purpose or not. Almost all ships that fell under that umbrella had the same structure, a cockpit module sandwiched between two fins that sat parallel to each other. From where I stand when building a Star Fighter its overall shape really only matters in atmosphere, the sleek and long design of the X-Wings main body doesn't really do much when in a vacuum. The T.I.E series shows a consistent and uniform design method and in theory this should allow the design process for new fighters to be a quick and cost effective. Plus Grand Admiral Thrawn did not deviate too much when it came to designing the T.I.E defender, so if the structure of the ship was good enough for him then you know the T.I.E series was good enough.

[@isaacgraff8288]

I know I have mentioned it before, but I do not think something as small as a TIE or an X-Wing should have hyperdrives. Massive energy requirements, and you may be in hyperspace for hours to days. Unlike road tripping on a motorcycle, you can't pull off the road to relieve yourself in outer space. Also cramped and not comfortable to sleep in. In the books Luke was able to get away with it since he could just enter a Jedi Trance and coma the whole way.

[@nick-hu1nx]

all of those modern tanks are very sloped from front attacks as you will most likely take hits there, with combined arms, drones and other tools identifying locations before contact. notice the slope on the turrets as well. then something you cant see, modern tanks use composite armor, if you google that they actually sandwich layers at an angle which makes a weight to protection maximizer very very happy.

[@jordancooke8538]

The tie fighter reminds me of the t34 it's not as survivable as a sherman or as armed and armoured as German cats but it's very easy to maintain and easy to mass produce

[@p_serdiuk]

Nah the historical realities were opposite to that, it was hard to maintain and the production version was garbage compared to properly made tanks

[@viktoriyaserebryakov2755]

@@p_serdiuk Hah. War time and post war propaganda discrepancies are always interesting to compare.

[@p_serdiuk]

@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 The T-34 propaganda is based around the post-war production versions which were made roughly to spec and after certain problematic components were already redesigned, such as the engine air filters and the gearbox, which went from 4-speed that requires a hammer to shift gears (no that is not an exaggeration) to a 5-speed that could actually achieve a decent-ish speed on the battlefield. The wartime T-34s were basically metal boxes made of armor plates with subpar heat treatment, an engine with an extremely hard to shift and unreliable transmission, and a gun that was just ok. Everything else was not guaranteed to be put into the tank and T-34s made at certain points in the war that were the most desperate were hellish to ride and fight in. But, there was an awful lot of them, that much is true.

[@viktoriyaserebryakov2755]

@@p_serdiuk I'm saying everything you're told about the Russians and everything you're told about the Germans was reversed during the war. That swapped immediately after it. It is funny to me.

[@Valentinianii]

Thank you so much for doing a video on my suggestion + the shout out! Still cant believe it!

[@GenerationTech]

Thanks for the idea Gavin!

[@Captain_M_747]

Love it! Have you gone over the tie defender before?

[@johnquach8821]

I'm pretty sure he has, and the TIE Defender is considered the best fighter other than maybe the E-Wing in Legends.

[@tomcopple7633]

Kind of reminds me of a video I saw a little while ago comparing Western and Russian fighters. Both are impressive, but have completely different philosophies in design and use.

[@shaider1982]

More info on the arc shape: An arc ensures that the stresses along it is compressive which can be withstood by even brittle materials like stone compared to bending stresses.

[@datastorm75]

For being fighters protected by shields, the rebel fighters seem to explode really easily.

[@starsiegeplayer]

Shields seem to only help against glancing blows. Luke survived a hit to the portside engine thanks to shields. Porkins survived a hit for a short time, but the damage meant he couldn't hold it and got shot down afterwards.

[@pandoraeeris7860]

When I played all the X-Wing/Tie Fighter games, the Tie Fighter was by far the best fighter to fight in. You can't beat maneuverability in a game like that.

[@strambino1]

I always remember the A6M Zero when I see the tie fighter. The pilot in a Zero had no parachute or radio to save weight.

[@Kai...999]

... if I were to engineer an aircraft I'd probably save weight in other areas as opposed to the thing that ensures the pilot doesn't lose his or her life. That's just me tho, caring about human life. Then again, if I design a fighter jet I'm probably doing so to end human life so... Meh.

[@silverchairsg]

I remember when I was young, I was reading the Star Wars Visual Guide with my father (covers only the OT era, white cover, can't remember the exact title). We read the entry on TIE fighter pilots which went something like "These TIE pilots are elites. They graduated in the top 10% of their class in the Naval Academy. Despite being elite status, they know they are expendable." He raised his eyebrows at that last part.

[@RYUZAKILL117]

I started playing Squadrons again recently and I prefer the speed and maneuverability of a TIE Interceptor rather than any shielded fighter. Also, not having to worry about shields gives me one less thing to worry about so I can make easier/quicker decisions, it’s just like “I wanna attack, more power to the weapons” or “I’m getting shot at, all energy to the engines, let’s get the f*ck out of here”

[@AdmiralStoicRum]

You hit the nail in the head at the number one most risky part of fighters and such, it's maintenance. It's the shit that happens before even leaves the ground That is the number one risk point. Good shout

[@benspooner7396]

The tie fighter traded armour for speed and manoeuvrability. Kinda like real life military soldiers, they normal go light on armour and go for not getting hit. The ties do the same

[@Reoh0z]

It's often been said that TIE Fighters are among the toughest, most reliable starfighters in the galaxy. A study of returned craft has been unable to show any failings in the ship's hardware. Detractors say this is because the ships keep blowing up and their shortcomings go undocumented, but the Empire dismisses such concerns as coming from the seditious tongues of rebel scum.

[@dianabarnett6886]

I mean, judging from the films, those deflector shields don't offer THAT much protection.

[@tba113]

They really don't. Even if they completely stop the first burst of enemy gunfire, and assuming they'll recharge over time, TIEs are more than capable of landing the next burst about a second later. I guess they're good for Rebel pilot morale, but from what we see in the films, that's about it.

[@AKUJIVALDO]

​@@tba113unless Terrorist pilots have plot armour. Like Wedge and Luke.

[@thejarredhog3936]

Sometimes ships go down because the shield generator overloads and explodes. It's what happened to the Tantive 4.

[@brandonholland929]

Two things Rogue One forgot to show: Y-Wings taking a beating and actually surviving like we've always been told they can, and a CR-90 mowing down a squad of TIEs. Woulda brought the space battle from a 10 to an 11.

[@christophernemeth421]

The shielded Rebel fighters didnt seem to fare any better than the TIEs innall the clips shown

[@shaider1982]

On sloped armor: it doesn’t work if the armor is made from brittle material like ceramics. Hence the slab sided designs of the present day tanks which used composite armor which include ceramics in it.

[@Riceball01]

Alan got this wrong, modern composite armor used in tanks can and are sloped. What you can't do with it is make it rounded like on older tanks. He was confusing sloped armor for rounded armor. All sloped armor means is putting your armor slabs at an angle and you can have sloped armor that's both sloped and rounded.

[@NickismyNickname]

@@Riceball01 but it is true that it isn't sloped in many cases. (Lepoard 2A4 turret, M1 turret, Type 90 turret etc.) But this is because modern apfsds shells don't really riccochet.

[@Riceball01]

@@NickismyNickname Except that, at least in the case of the M1, all of the frontal armor is sloped. All sloped basically means is slanted.

[@NickismyNickname]

@@Riceball01 have you ever seen a foto of these tanks?

[@Riceball01]

@@NickismyNickname Yes, I have. I've seen tons of photos & videos, and I've seen a couple M1s in person. Their armor is very much sloped in the front. All sloped armor means is that the armor is slanted as opposed to standing upright at 90 degree angles. Any angle less t than 90 degrees means that the armor is sloped, even the Tiger ! had its upper hull armor sloped, albeit at a very slight angle. I think that you, and others, are confusing sloped armor for rounded armor. Old tanks like the US Patton series had rounded armor on the turret and armor that was both rounded and set at angle on the hull. Old Soviet tank have rounded armor on their turrets with sloped armor on the front of the hulls. Western tanks like M1, Challenger, and newer variants of the Leopard 2 have sloped (meaning angled) armor along the fronts of their turrets and hulls.

[@ericv7720]

Two other advantages of the TIE design: modularity, which makes for easy upgrades (using the same hull, potentially swapping out ears and weapons pods for TIE Interceptor, Advanced, etc.), and (from what I've gathered playing the TIE Fighter PC game so long ago), quick ejection once the fighter does receive catastrophic damage. Getting rescued, either by tractor beam or pickup shuttle, is another matter!

[@lordMartiya]

Nitpick: Republic Sienar System and its subsidiary Sienar Design System were already manufacturing mass-produced stuff, such as the Marauder-class corvette or the Dagger starfighter (basically, the TIE without the twin ion engine).

[@socrates112]

Brilliant talk on vehicles and tech and directions in fighters design.

[@ukmediawarrior]

When it comes down to it I can't recall seeing any fighter, shielded or not, withstand a couple of direct shots from another fighters weapons. In the movies X-Wings blow up just as quickly as a TIE does, lol. Only in the computer games do they make a difference.

[@andrewmeyer3599]

Games also give the TIE shields so I wouldn't use that for an basis tbh

[@ddshiranui]

@@andrewmeyer3599 Aren't videogames actually where the idea that TIE's are unshielded originates from? And I can't recall a game where the standard TIE is shielded; it definitely wasn't the case in the original TIE-Fighter game (I still have a bit of PTSD from that infamous mine field mission), and I think in the most recent Squadrons game they only get a repair system that can try to patch the armor?

[@richardkenan2891]

@@ddshiranui I've never seen TIE fighters from the Galactic Civil War era have shields. Nor TIE Interceptors or TIE Bombers. Only the TIE Advanced and later models got shields. The shields might not be super effective, but they're more effective than not having them, which is the point. Taking a single hit on your shields before you start taking hull and system damage pretty much doubles the survivability of most fighters.

[@ddshiranui]

@@richardkenan2891 What I meant is that the original movies didn't seem to make any distinction between X/Y-Wings and TIEs in terms of ruggedness; they all popped instantly when shot at, so for all the moviegoer at the day could have expected, the Imperial fighters may have had shields as well. Only the Expanded Universe, which came up with the vast majority of technical specs and details in its books and RPGs and videogames, later established this dichotomy. And whilst I agree with you that deflectors are nowadays presented as *extremely* useful in the videogames, as mentioned above it just didn't come across like that in the movies -- because in ANH, TIE-Fighter laser cannons were shooting so fast, their targets didn't just catch that one shot that would be stopped by a deflector, but a full barrage within less than a second. Similar to how tandem warheads just cancel out the ERA on a modern battle tank, to reference the example mentioned in the video . I guess the supplemental/third party material has just considerably changed the fandom's perception over the years in this regard, even to the point of "overriding" what we see in the actual films. Unless we were to discard the validity of those scenes as being influenced by plot, of course. I *do* tend to favor technical specs (like from the RPG books) above stories, as one is always neutral whilst the other often features reality-bending heroics. ;)

[@dixievfd55]

When flying the Tie Fighter in the X-wing games, your maneuverability is your shields. You have the speed and the turn rate to shake off any X-wing.

[@X-ray511]

ERA isn’t an active protection measure it’s a passive protection measure, the armour doesn’t actively look for incoming threats to neutralise.

[@Riceball01]

I was going to say the same thing. Alan made a number of mistakes when he was doing the segemtnt comparing tanks to TIE fighters.

[@Axterix13]

Not passive either. As its name says, it is "reactive".

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

"Only the fighters are attacking. I wonder what those Star Destroyers are waiting for." -- Lando Calrissian

[@TribbleArtCreations]

I would add part the reason for the design of the TIE Fighter was modularity. It was easier with general maintenance, but also any special systems that needed to be added for special missions like special scanners or communicatios could be swapped out easily and quickly without needing an entirely new ship design. The Rebel starfighters in general don't have that capability and require actual modifications that take time and a lot more complicated then unplugging something pulling it out and putting something else in and plugging it up. Some of those things that could have been swapped out on a TIE Fighter could potentially provide a little extra advantage over another starfighter when coupled with their better speed/agility and deploying usually in large groups with other well skilled pilots. I never even thought about the ball being more sturdy design overall, but you're right about how that shape helps equally distribute force around....not that it helps a whole lot when dealing with lasers, but if you crash I do think it would really help witg survival.....even if you puke everywhere from the "ball" rolling around with you in it.

[@jaykerzp3643]

I don’t even skip the advertisements anymore(sorry Alan😅). They fit his channel so well and he’s been doing them for so long, it kinda just feels like part of the show now. Now *that’s* good advertising!

[@daveslow84]

Awesome video. I was a bit confused about the statement about the armour of modern tanks not being very sloped... 12:15 and the other pictures shows it really well that modern tank armor is VERY sloped :D I mean just look at that turret armour, it's even sloped in both directions! (unless you mean the sides or back but they should be facing away from the enemy...)

[@johannesbowers7467]

It is actually a pretty valid option to consider if you Can't hit me why do I need Shields? In addition to cost and weight saving you reserve pilot Focus and concentration on the only things that matter speed maneuverability and firepower..... Notably the only things available to put the system's power towards maximum output.

[@GenerationTech]

yeah the jedi were all about that with the delta 7

[@eight-cloudspurple5871]

​@@GenerationTechyeah but thats jedi, normies without space magic also lacks a few handy tricks up Jedi robe's sleeves.

[@felixalexisortizlagos6904]

I played star wars squadrons and i didn't change my reliable Tie figther, maybe it hadn't hyperdrive, shields or another survival features but you can see all in front you across your big round cockpit and that's all

[@LENZ5369]

A sphere/circle/arch/etc. is 'strong' because they are good at distributing the mechanical force/load applied to them; but this quality would be useless against laser cannons -powerful lasers would (irl) explode/vapourize, not 'push'; the material it contacts.

[@yamatokurusaki5790]

A leopards do use... Sloped armor... It's it's visible from outside and it has even angled panels inside (composite armor)

[@ddshiranui]

True, I recall seeing a picture from the inside of the wedges the newer versions (A5-A8) have at the front of their turrets. The new A8 also has Trophy active protection system in addition.

[@AceSpadeThePikachu]

More on the "angled armor" point, all the "specialized" TIE fighters, from the interceptor to the bomber to the defender to Vader's own personal fighter had angled foils (though I never really understood what the foils were for. Heat dissipation? Solar panels?) which probably gave them an extra layer of protection over the standard flat-foil TIE.

[@kenbrown2808]

originally for looks, but the in universe explanation is heat dissipation.

[@AceSpadeThePikachu]

@@kenbrown2808 Makes more sense than solar panels, which is what I'd read in some old Legends novels. Not all dogfights in Star Wars take place close enough to a star for solar panels to be useful.

[@AceSpadeThePikachu]

@@kenbrown2808 Now I actually hope someone does an experiment to see how well the TIE design would fare in space by making a mini satellite shaped like one, with a real ion drive for mobility and stabilization and the "wings" for heat dissipation AND solar energy. How amazing would it be if it turned out to actually be an efficient design for some small satellites?

[@kenbrown2808]

@@AceSpadeThePikachu ion drives actually have very low acceleration rates in comparison to other drive technology. low orbit satellites are actually one use it is looking efficient for.

[@AceSpadeThePikachu]

@@kenbrown2808 I know, hence the cubesat idea.

[@AkiataSkirata]

Great point about the inertial compensators. I feel that repulsor lifts (same tech ) have been totally forgotten about in the SW Galaxy. Ships weren't supposed to use their main sub light drives in populated areas because of the radiation pollution, yet we see it happen all the time in the current crop of Disney SW shows. Anyway, I would love to see you do a bit on the under appreciated Repulsor Lift, if you haven't already. Vode en!

[@bryanfrazier4648]

I'm curious what the difference is between the ion engines used in the MK-VI Supremacy Class Starfighter from 3-4k years ago and the ones used in the TIE's during the modern era? .. and how much of that old ship informed the design of the new TIE's?

[@TheFlyWahine]

Its also important to point out and/or highlight all the tech in for example the Stormtroopers helmets that the writers and makers of all the star wars stuff constantly ignore. But yes nice video.

[@teakat9608]

The Tie Fighter. A symbol of peace and order throughout the galaxy!

[@horseface31]

I've always loved TIE fighters. still do. TIEs and star destroyers are just plain cool.

[@EyeOfMagnus4E201]

Really, perhaps shields helped against space debris, but in the original trilogy movies, the rebels’ fighter shields only seemed to dampen laser damage rather than block it. Even in the sequel series where First Order TIE fighters had shields, they seemed to only block the first laser bolt in a burst before subsequent bolts vaporized the TIE fighters. Outside of RPGs and video games, fighter shields didn’t seem that effective.

[@Axterix13]

It makes sense, for dramatic purposes. Shields are shown to work on the Falcon and other big ships, because, well, they're bigger ships. If enemy fighters miss those bigger ships, it makes them look incompetent. And when they want to make the ship look vulnerable, they just add a bit of dialogue about the shield's status (as seen in both episode IV and VI). With a small craft like a fighter, there's no real need to do that. You can just have the enemy miss the small target, unless there's a need to heighten the tension, like when R2 gets hit, or you're lifting scenes from a bomber movie, and therefore have one your attack planes break out of formation, damaged. Having to deal with shield status would add nothing. Of course, the game versions play up the shields, because it suits that medium. It allows for added stress, having to worry about your "health", but also providing a form of in-combat healing.

[@EyeOfMagnus4E201]

@@Axterix13 It does make sense in the meta for shields in the movies and the games to act differently, but I do still treat the movies as the more “canon” way shields in Star Wars are suppose to work. I like the way Star Wars squadrons treats TIE fighters and rebel fighters as it seems more authentic to the movies, though as it’s a game both sides fighters seem a bit more “tanky” then they should be. TIE fighters have no shields, but they have stronger hulls than their rebel counterparts (still doesn’t quite make up for the lack of shields but it helps). However, since TIEs don’t have shields, they can use the excess power saved to supercharge their weapons or engines, so TIEs can either fly much faster in full engine power (even the bombers), or hit much harder with their weapons. Rebel fighters, with shields that regenerate, do have more staying power, though in squadrons shields are fairly weak, so temporary retreats happen a lot with rebel fighters, but that’s still better than having to go back to base like TIEs have to when damaged because hull doesn’t regenerate, of course. Still, in squadrons I still preferred playing TIEs to rebel ships just because they hit so hard and moved so fast.

[@lerneanlion]

I have a question: If Darth Sidious was born during the time when the Sith Empire and the Galactic Republic coexisted with one another, can he played the same political manuever to get himself a seat on the Dark Council?

[@lolmeme69_]

...this is something I need to see.

[@guts60]

Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Din Grogu, Gavin, Ahsoka Tano, Leia Organa

[@tyrionas]

the B-21 Raider has been built though, they are testing the first prototypes

[@grisom5863]

Yeah that was an error. It was built but it hasn't been put in mass production yet. Though I expect it will only be a few years before Northrup does.

[@SmokeDrake]

There were a few things you didn't touch on and a comparison to the Reble fighters as well. Starting with the whole "window" view for the front, the Reble ships had canopies that while giving them a bigger field of view, was also a much bigger and easier to hit target compared to the forward view port of the Tie. Both with their pros and cons being better field of view over better protection. Another is firepower. Ignoring missiles and just focusing on the main weapons, the blasters as their the most used. X-wings have 4 blasters compared to the Ties two however, each of the X-wings blasters is on the end of a single wing and as many times seen in the movies and cartoons they all shoot inward slightly like some WWII fighters with similar designs. Whereas the Tie's two blasters are both below the cockpit and fire simultaneously. The X-wings blasters fired ONLY one at a time and the delay between the shots for the X-wings blasters was greater than that of the Ties. (That is based on comparisons made while watching the movies frame by frame there's no details that i know of that say what the actual delay is so this could change or be wrong.) The final point i want to make is the overall area of the fighters themselves. How easy are they to hit. When attacking front to front the Tie's sphere body and the "arms" holding the "wings. (Sorry can't think of what they're called.) Attacking from the front, back, top or bottom that stays the same and with its agility it will be very hard to hit. That changes when attacking from the side as then the "wings" are a huge target. The X-wing is roughly just as hard to hit from the front or back. It's easier to hit from the top or bottom and the sides are easier than the front or back. Thats just on a one-on-one fight of course. But the Empire tended to attack with mass fighter numbers, them coming at a X-wing from several angles with massed fire and its very likely to get shot down. The Reble's also used fighter wings but with smaller numbers and even those tended to break into smaller groups due to limited numbers. Again, pros and cons for both. Personally, i love the Ties. Their shape, the weapon placement and favoring speed over taking hits. I've always believed that it doesn't matter how great your weapon is if you can't hit your target.

[@imperialnypiwosz3185]

People bashing Tie Fighters should rewatch Battle of Yavin. You can see how much "survivability" x-wing offered against Tie Fighter. Tie Fighters are faster and have higher fire rate. Tie fighters are very good offensive starfighter.

[@darthmada9574]

Nice video. I always loved the tie fighters and I was actually glad the first order took it a step further. But you're 99% right. I agree with everything you said except for the part when you said the empire didn't value it's pilots. If anything, considering what we know about the empires military culture, and the way funds were almost always favorable to the Navy, you'd realize the empire valued it's pilots over say an infantry men in the regular imperial army (not the stormtrooper corps).

[@TheJediCaptain]

In the New Jedi Order series, pilots are depicted as dialing the inertial compensators way down.

[@jackielinde7568]

The Spherical-Gravity shape (or obolid as it's called) doesn't help your argument for the TIE Fighter. See, the reason celestial objects form in rough spheres has to do with gravity pulling in all directions. It gives a common shape, but that shape doesn't offer any structural advantages against projectiles, as seen by the events that created our own moon. Also, they're not perfect spheres, as the objects are also spinning, that that spin makes the object thicker at the equator of the object and thinner at the poles, kind of like a squished orange or grapefruit. You can make the argument that an armored ball can deflect most shots at it as glancing blows, so long as they're not direct blasts. Except that eggs and arches fail at this, as those designs only deflect forces of large, spread out loads down the sides. Arches and Eggs are ill-equipped to handle targeted forces, like the blast of an artillery shell in the case of an arch and the lip of a mixing bowl or tooth/beak of a predator in the case of the egg.

[@kentyannayon3741]

I'll put it this way: The meta ships in Star Citizen, which is trying to be a more realistic unlicensed Star Wars game, are all small and light focusing on evasion for survival. This may change as intended when armor is actually simulated, but the current game is already relatively realistic to weapon effect. Smaller weapons take longer but eventually get the job done. Probably still faster than intended, but any weapon will do some damage to armor unless we're talking capital ship against small arms fire. However, the tie fighter is a perfect example of a snub fighter with substantial firepower that relies on maneuverability to survive. It would likely be highly dangerous for a couple medium fighters to go after a wing of them as long as BVR tactics can be avoided, which seems to be the standard situation in Star Wars. There seems to be no concept of engaging before BFM comes into play. And that's easily explained by Lucas' desire for space combat to resemble the battles of WWII, where most aerial engagements occurred in what would be most commonly understood as dogfights despite the fact that tactics usually meant avoiding dogfights and instead utilizing hit and run tactics.

[@PrinceofPwnage]

Sidenote, I really want a +2017 Mazda CX5 in red. Have a 2011 Mazda 3 but it's too small, specially after a child. She's been amazing, almost 200K miles, has never had a check engine light or any issues besides normal wear and tear. Even still drive able after getting T boned by an F150 that didn't feel like stopping at a stop sign, put the total check in savings.

[@Wilsontripplets]

i think the fragility of the TIE can actually be a hidden strength, like on the struts where they break of easily keep the main body intact but let a disposable part fly off to preserve the pilot in thier full life support suits.

[@PrinceofPwnage]

What's more canon, videogames or the movies? In games like Rogue Squadron X Wings can take quite a few hits, Tie fighters usually only a small burst. In movies both X Wings and TIEs only take 1 shot.

[@oliverking8633]

Videogames, because the movies are all over the place. Why ? Because you have the illogicality of x-wings and tie fighters being the same . Just look a the RU and shield values listed in wookiepedia . The movies are excellent at telling a good story , excluding 7-9 , but they suck at telling a story about a war.

[@piercelindenberg6842]

Your explanation of the spherical TIE cockpit also explains how Kylo Ren survived Rey slicing the wing off his TIE.

[@BulletMagnetMan]

I thought it was pronounced sci-nar. That's interesting regarding the gravity compensator. That actually explains a lot.

[@richardkenan2891]

The TIE fighter design makes sense when you consider an almost galaxy-wide empire ruled by a Sith Lord. Lives are cheap - the Empire had approximately all the people. Training pilots to be even fairly competent is likewise cheap-ish - pilot academies don't usually get blown up in combat, and the instructors likewise don't tend to die early. So they trained the massive number of pilots to pilot their similarly massive number of dirt cheap fighters, emphasizing maneuverability and evasion. The ones who became good enough to survive in the TIE deathtraps could be upgraded to better, more survivable fighters once they'd proven themselves. The ones who didn't became statistics. The Empire had, as I said, approximately all the people. They could always get more pilots, and rookie pilots, however well trained, are mostly going to die in their first live dogfight regardless. No point putting them in something valuable until they've survived those first few fights.

[@clayblaze1327]

The B21 raider has been build or at least a prototype aircraft, they literally did a huge unveiling ceremony for it late last year I believe

[@emberthecatgirl8796]

The biggest change I’d do in the TIE interceptor is adding onto the swivel engines by putting them on a ring like an Inquisitor’s lightsaber. How many problems could’ve been solved if the pilot could just 180 in place while still flying in the same direction.

[@TheWarmachine375]

TIEs are flying coffins in an almost literal sense as there's no force field ejection to protect the pilot and that it doesn't have a hyperdrive of its own.

[@SpacenoidCentral]

Typical Empire. Anything and everything they produce and use is meant to be expendable.

[@logangrimnar3800]

There's a reason for the lack of ejection. They're primarily space fighters and launching into the void of space to drift aimlessly in hopes you're found is pretty suicidal. It is better to stay inside the wreckage, which can be easily found and recovered.

[@hellfish2309]

Seals in the flavor

[@thechroniclegamer4285]

Doesn’t need a Hyperdrive Rule 2 of warfare, don’t be hit

[@lancer737]

If need be, any TIe can easily have its armaments changed, and or have shields and a hyper drive of multiple variations mounted to them.

[@zerosen2141]

being made to pilot a Flying Coffin is going to teach you one of two things. How to die (a lesson you'll only take once) or how to be a better pilot. Another fun factoid for TIE Pilots. Box-standard TIE/LN Pilots, upon surviving something like 10-12 active combat sorties, would be made a candidate to receive, or just be flat out given, a TIE/IN (TIE Interceptor). That's how low survivability rates were in this thing. Hell, there were probably Droids more expensive than the standard TIE was, brand new.

[@CidVeldoril]

I mean the Eta-2 Actis Interceptor the Jedi used also didn't have shields. Not having shields is not about the pilot being disposable. If your pilot is good enough, you would expect them to not need shields. When playing Star Wars Galaxies, my N-1 fighter also didn't have shields in favour of a faster engine and bigger guns. My idea there was always "I only need shields if I let them hit me and that's just not going to happen".

[@jerryherrera9243]

@generation tech - Love this vital note on ties. it validates quite alot, but my view on the empires might would also impact their maneuverability, as you did conclude the pilots had an advantage in handling extreme maneuvering objectives. Also like I wrote the ea squadrons game devs to modify its capabilities to translate a side vector pivot maneuvering ability (a side to side sliding movement ) . this is not an actual canon ability to ties, but in a way it is. since they seem to be doing this movement in the visual radar dash hud in the movies. something I think would reflect within the arm base wing systems capabilities, and would really be a furious feature advancement like in the defenders. Something that would really leads to the empires fearsome reputation.

[@tba113]

There's also the logistics issue. TIE fighters being cheap (for fighters, anyway) means they could be handed out like Oprah doing a giveaway ("You get a TIE squadron! And _you_ get a TIE squadron! Everyone gets a TIE squadron!"). The common design features between the various TIE models also meant a lot of system and parts commonality, which hugely simplifies supply chains - and does the same for the training pipelines of both flight and maintenance personnel. Add all this up, and you have a fire-hose of fast, high-performance starfighters that come complete with however many trained pilots and support personnel you need, that the Rebels will have to dance around pretty much wherever they go from one end of the Empire to the other.

[@Gwildor2020]

4:35 Bro, I love my Hyundai Kona N Line!

[@ddshiranui]

If installing (or removing) a deflector significantly changes the performance of a starfighter, it makes me wonder if the concept of the T/F being unshielded is perhaps another little reference to WW2, considering Star Wars takes so much inspiration from that conflict for anything from politics to uniform design... In the Pacific Theater, the famous Japanese A6M Zero fighter was renowned for its agility, which it gained in good part by sacrificing all sorts of weighty protective measures from armor to damage control. By prioritizing maneuverability, the IJN's skilled pilots - having gained considerable experience in the Sino-Japanese War - were able to easily outmaneuver and out-climb the more rugged but also much heavier USN Wildcats in the first year of the war. This only changed later with the introduction of the Hellcat and Corsair and their more powerful engines, and by this time the quality of the Japanese pilots took a nosedive as the Empire struggled to replace its elite fighter corps with new recruits, since training took way too long, and so attrition caused a bottleneck that ultimately forced them to send up green rookies. Hence the so-called "Marianas Turkey Shoot", and the rest of history. I definitely could see some parallels to Star Wars here, especially recalling what a nightmare A-Wings were to fight in the TIE Fighter videogame, compared to the slower X-Wings whose rears you'd have no problem gluing your T/F to in a dogfight. On a side note, we should probably also recall that just as video games are limited by balancing, so are movies and TV shows limited by the plot. Just because some cutscenes or whatever show TIE's getting popped just by a single shot of protagonist X-Wing's laser cannon doesn't mean this has to be representative. Let's remember that in the very first piece of Star Wars canon - Episode IV - the Death Star's TIE Fighters had no problem blasting through even double-reinforced X-Wing deflectors with just half a second's worth of laserfire.

[@luisemoralesfalcon4716]

Thanks for the information, cool ships.

[@calvinstraveldreams]

I imagine that the ball cockpit of a TIE Fighter is good for dissipating the impact of a collision (and improving crash safety) because if it hits a surface there's a good chance it will roll, removing kinetic energy from a crash. This is not the case with most starfighters.

[@medievalmastermind5619]

There's a big missed opportunity to mention the stealth capabilities of the TIE after talking about real world stealth fighters. Due to the Twin Ion Engine not having moving parts and exceedingly efficient drives, many starfighter sensors cant pickup TIEs at a distance. Even in a New Hope, Luke mentions his scope was blank and veteran pilots like Red Leader had to instruct his group to find incoming TIEs by sight. Impressive, considering that X-wing are supposed to have advanced sensor packages.

[@parkerstange851]

EckhartsLadder has an interesting video on this. He argues that based on just the movies the Tie fits its role well

[@Somiaz]

Question: Why do X-Wings look like their cockpit is also an ejector seat? I remember watching a video where X-Wings have cockpits that act as an ejector seat while the droid would take control of the craft.

[@gorasul12]

The animated short film Tie Fighter comes to mind listening to this, its a really great short film 😁

[@mazmyth1799]

Love your jokes you manage get chuckles out of me every single time😂

[@kajn3206]

What I don't like the most is the view from the cabin, but we don't even know what was shown to the pilots on the other panels or directly in the helmet

[@jeffreycarman2185]

The TIE is an iconic fighter.

[@roguecarrick816]

The tie is a budget build crotch rocket , for interceptor duties its a good ship, if the empire had kept a longer range arc 170 type vessel the ties would probably have done a lot better, i can picture an empire where tarkin took a quick trip down a cliff and the ties have a heavy fighter back up with deflectors, heavy weapons, ftl, etc, that serve as an anchor for tie squadrons, when the fleet drops in the heavy fighters are filling an x wing roll letting the ties scramble safely. The ties pack pretty neatly so with a chance to scramble they probably out number anyone they're fighting.

[@brentc2411]

It's almost as though the Imperial Navy was portrayed as being superior, then were gradually nerfed over the years because people felt the Rebels needed more and more advantage to explain them winning.

[@laisphinto6372]

yeah they massively nerfed tie fighters

[@brentc2411]

@@laisphinto6372 not just Tie Fighters, Star Destroyers too.

[@V-V1875-h]

@@brentc2411 they just forget how easily the ISD's can melt through ships with their heavy octuple turbolasers

[@Hello-bi1pm]

Shouldn't they just write Rebels smarter to explain them winning?

[@hackersulamaster]

@Hello 95% of the effort put into rebels is all a bunch of entry level animators making explosions on a screen.

[@rodolphendessabeka8721]

I would love to see a novel and a TV series about the Sienar family.

[@OspreyKnight]

habitual line crosser reference gets an instant thumbs up.

[@RoadRash89]

2:35 well that escalated rather quickly

[@mattthemouse1]

A big reason for the lack of sloped armor on modern tanks is the space age armor modern tanks use is much more effective head on than sloped due to the composition of that armor

[@penelopegreene]

It was always presented as simplicity itself! The pilots even carried their own life support.

[@headshothunt3r414]

slight correction. ERA neither detecs incoming rounds nor is it part of an active protection system. ERA is just explosive plates to prematurely detonate HEAT rounds/missiles before they reach the main armor. ERA does a bad job against armor piercing projectiles

[@thearisen7301]

Modern tank armor can't be curved so no rounded shapes. Also as you note, internal space is important so you can only slope so much before it hinders the crew's ability to operate the tank.

[@BrandonSmith-ru8wl]

Oh god I almost lost it at "they all look like shit... i'm actually in the market for one..." best line i've heard from a video in a few weeks lol

[@michaelfisher5457]

What I want to know is why did they change the tie fighters to having a rear window . They never had one before the back of the tie fighter is a heat dissipation vent .

[@SebBurnsRubber]

Alan, If you’re looking for a nice looking, quick and exhilarating Crossover, get an x3m