Is the Valve Trombone a REAL trombone ?

So is the Valve trombone a real trombone?
This is a question a lot of people used to ask me ... when I was a full-time valve trombone player ! you have heard that right, that was my one and only major instrument for years.
In this video I talk a little bit about the valve trombone, this is a King valve trombone. Why I chose it, how it sounds, and so on.
Hope you enjoy the video!
If you want to hear me play the valve trombone here are a few tracks for you to hear:
Free Impro 1:
• Free improvisation - R...
Free Impro 2:
• free improvisation on ...
Lumiere du 06300:
• Raphael Reiter Trio __...
So what:
• So what de Miles Davis...
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[@sovietapples6122]

Put a slide on anything and it becomes a trombone but put valves on a trombone and it becomes a trombone

[@codladhbeag3167]

I used to be a trumpet player until the beggining of my 8th grade year when I started playing Valve Trombone because I couldn't get enough air out to play higher notes on the trumpet. Ever since the first day I started playing it I fell in love with it.

[@mikesosa1146]

I had a similar problem in the beginning of 7th grade so I went to baritone horn. Wish we had had valve trombones. Man, I would have love that!!!

[@raphaelreiter]

great, guys!

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@mikesosa1146 Juan Tizol was one of the Valve Trombone Icons

[@mikesosa1146]

@@RockStarOscarStern634 Thanks for this info!!!!

[@greghanson407]

My grandfather played the valve trombone, starting out in his hometown band in 1910 and continuing up to his death in 1930.

[@raphaelreiter]

:))

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

Marching Bands also play Valve Trombones so the Musicians wouldn't break their slide, & this was also when Trombonists wanted to play while riding on a Horse.

[@user-vf9ee6kn1e]

I can attest to that, valve trombone is much easier to play than slide if maintaining your balance is important. This is especially evident if you've ever tried playing trombone while riding a unicycle.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

5:42 This Valve Trombone seemed like a perfect for for Gigs w/ Big Bands that were playing Duke Ellington's Music cause it was written for Valve Trombone playing the 3rd Trombone Part. Juan Tizol was the Icon of this instrument.

[@raphaelreiter]

❤️

[@bobjacobson858]

I've never played a valve instrument, and although I've played a few other kinds of instruments, I just started my first brass instrument, a Conn Director straight tenor (slide) trombone from about 1965 I bought off eBay for US $125 + shipping. I enjoyed your video, and I believe your reason for choosing a valve trombone instead of a slide makes perfect sense, considering the situation you were dealt. I consider a valve trombone a "real" trombone even if others might not and it's a less common instrument. To me it sounds like a trombone and not some other brass instrument.

[@raphaelreiter]

cool!

[@ScratchySlide]

They sound like euphonium.

[@bacbariboscru3590]

this guy is light years beyond my skill level, but a tip to all brass players. he did reference surprise the valves worked well after a few years in storage, but if you're not using the horn for a while, remove all valves and slides!!!! i wish i had 1/1000th of his talent

[@raphaelreiter]

Thansk!

[@bradyparkerson457]

I originally started my band career as a percussionist and picked up a valve trombone for our Show Choir Band to be a part since all drum set parts were filled. Now I play it for my high school symphonic band and I’m playing all first trombone parts with insanely high notes and I just started in September 2021

[@raphaelreiter]

you must be so proud

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

Position 1 = Open Position 2 = 2nd Valve Position 3 = 1st Valve Position 4 = 1st & 2nd Valves (or 3rd Valve) Position 5 = 2nd & 3rd Valves Position 6 = 1st & 3rd Valves Position 7 = 1st, 2nd, & 3rd Valves

[@raphaelreiter]

👍🏻

[@bkraft]

I play both a slide trombone and a valve trombone - I love the valves almost as much as I like my slide! I'm tired of the hate that gets thrown toward the valve trombone.

[@raphaelreiter]

❤️

[@johnries5593]

I do prefer the sound of the valve trombone to that of its slided sibling under most circumstances (Neill Diamond's "Solitary Man" is a noted exception). To me, the valve trombone sounds clearer, while the slide trombone sounds nasal. PS: The euphonium can too swing. What you were hearing was pure prejudice (similar to the euphonium not being an orchestral instrument). Disclosure: I play cello and baritone, but not trombone (but I'm thinking of buying a valve trombone).

[@raphaelreiter]

ok

[@mikesosa1146]

Thank you so much for this chat. So much appreciated!!! I am a fan of the valve trombone Back in the 60s I started on trumpet but did not have the lung power so my instructor transferred me to the Bb baritone horn (treble clef). I adapted immediately. Growing up during the mid-60s in Bklyn it was the era of trombone in Latin Soul / Boogaloo /Afro-Cuban music. I wanted to play the trombone but being OCD I could not adapt to the slide positions. I was also afraid of the bass clef. Wish we had had valve trombones in High School. That would have been so cool when jamming with bandmates. Very many decades later I discovered the marching baritone, marching trombone, Bb piston valve bass trumpet, marching euphonium and VALVE TROMBONE. I was in heaven. I used to own a bunch of valve trombones. I donated most to local schools but kept my John Packard VT. I am so glad I discovered all these brass valve instruments. Except for the euphonium I can go from one to the other without changing my embouchure. While I now have lost fear of the bass clef and am studying the slide trombone, I still love the valve trombone. Please keep sharing more of your valve trombone knowledge. I do have a question: what do you think of the compact valve trombones? Can I get your opinion. Thanks!!!!!

[@raphaelreiter]

the more compact the less flowing the air - avoid it

[@mikesosa1146]

@@raphaelreiter Thanks so much!!!!!!

[@jorymil]

Of course it's a real trombone! "Trombone" just means "big trumpet," after all. Bob Brookmeyer was a fantastic improvisor, and even improvised counterpoint lines to songs. _The_Power_of_Positive_Swinging_, with Clark Terry, is one of my favorite albums of all time. _Recorded_Fall_1961_, with Stan Getz, is another great album.

[@raphaelreiter]

:)

[@RokkitGrrl]

I had a friend, I think it was year 6, who played the valve trombone while I played the alto sax in our school's musical ensemble. He went by the nickname "Roach" for some reason but was really already good at playing back then. I lost touch with him when he went into the Navy.

[@raphaelreiter]

:)

[@danielcarlheister680]

Hello, enjoyed your video. You made some comments about euphonium not being a jazz instrument. I toured with a guy named Rich Matteson who was a legendary jazz euphonium player. You might change your mind about euphonium jazz after hearing him. He was a professor at North Texas unifversity. He was a great guy and a great player. Check him out. Thanks again for the video.

[@raphaelreiter]

🙏

[@talesoftheinlandseas5063]

Oh wow so you knew the guys at tubajazz! What was that like?

[@sharylwilliams4397]

I see that you made this video 4 years ago, but I've just found it. And yes, valve trombone is a real instrument! But I may be biased. In school band I started out on trumpet at age 10 and before I was 12 I had switched to baritone/euphonium. The one I played the most was the American baritone euphonium hybrid (it was a school owned insturment). I played it for both concert band and marching band through the middle of my freshman year of high school. In the middle of my freshman year, the band director ordered a *valve trombone* for me to play for both marching and pep bands! So, like you, I played BOTH! As far as "lung power" goes, I found the valve trombone more difficult to play, but I got used to it and had a great deal of fun with it! As far as difference in sound from the baritone/euphonium I also played, I found the baritone/euphonium to have a much more mellow sound, and the valve trombone to have a brighter, sharper sound. I enjoyed hearing about your experiences with euphonium and valve trombone and all your travels. Thank you for sharing!

[@raphaelreiter]

:)

[@elinciarojas3048]

love the sound of this thing, also as a french horn player i am personally insulted you dont think it can swing /s

[@raphaelreiter]

Haha!

[@certifiedman7350]

These type of trombones are very popular/common is Mexican band music. Still very neat to hear what the actual instrument sounds like.

[@raphaelreiter]

👍🏻👍🏻

[@daveburch235]

I started on trumpet and baritone, and after hearing some Juan Tizol and Bob Brookmeier and others,, I'm itching to add either a valve trombone or flugabone to my arsenal. In both cases, the Kings seem to have the sound I'm after. They're very hard to find!

[@raphaelreiter]

cool

[@user-vf9ee6kn1e]

I'd recommend learning the slide trombone if you have the option, I've been on euphonium and valve trombone for a couple years and slide trombone felt pretty intuitive after only a couple days of practice. It really helps to know the valve combinations for each note so you can translate them to slide positions.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

Valve Trombones really could add alot to your music.

[@trombonerist2856]

As a trombone player im looking into picking up a valve trombone. Currently learning trumpet to learn fingerings, but would love to pick up a valve trombone for the heck of it.

[@raphaelreiter]

❤️

[@thetrombonehub6254]

Brilliant! I think you answered the question in your first phrase of Donna Lee ;-)

[@raphaelreiter]

Yes! Thank you!

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

Any Trumpet Valve Oil will do. The Valve Trombone has the same range as the Trumpet & it can cover any Bb Trumpet sheet music, the only difference is that everything will come out an Octave lower cause it's just twice the length among the Tubing.

[@nibroc06]

So I should be able to play this even though I've only played the trumpet?

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@nibroc06 Any Trumpeter can play Valve Trombone, it has the same range but down an Octave so everything on the Valve trombone will come out an Octave lower than a Bb Trumpet.

[@nibroc06]

@@RockStarOscarStern634 alright thanks!

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@nibroc06 Now we're rocking

[@nibroc06]

@@RockStarOscarStern634 I though I would have to learn bass clef in order to play it :/

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

The Dual Tuning Slide System is my favorite feature of this instrument.

[@raphaelreiter]

:)

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@raphaelreiter Valve Trombones have also been used in Orchestra. Verdi wrote for the Cimbasso which is an Upright Contrabass Valve Trombone with up to 6 Valves. The Cimbasso is so long that they made the Valve Section perpendicular to the Bell Section at a 90 Degree angle.

[@jonathanreid2237]

I now really want to play a valve trombone, I played Trombone all throughout school, being lead trombone every year except 2 of my 7 years in band, but this is so interesting, I now really want to get one and switch it out with one of my bass trombones in my collection

[@raphaelreiter]

❤️

[@gregyoung7310]

I was first exposed to valve trombone back in the 1980s when I was in high school. Rob McConnell and the Boss Brass were pretty big back then, and Rob McConnell was a pretty badass valve trombone player. I later grew to appreciate Bob Brookmeyer as well, probably moreso. Our high school had a couple of King valve trombones and a Bach Stradivarius valve trombone, which was very cool. I remember feeling that the tone of the Kings was stuffy, like you noted, but the Bach was a little more open and solid, if that makes sense. I think you get a great sound out of that King 2B valve trombone. I found you by googling "King valve trombone", which I did because I'm curious to know if the bore size of the King 3B valve trombone is bigger than the 2B, like the same slide trombone models are. Your video didn't help me at all with my question, but I'm glad I found it and watched/listened to it. Now I need to subscribe and watch more of your stuff! :)

[@raphaelreiter]

Cool!

[@robertschaefer8498]

I am trumpet player mainly. I have and play a valved trombone mainly because I have short arms. I can tr each 7th position but it is really awkward and uncomfortable. I use it as a solo instrument mostly playing trumpet music. Some tunes like "I Had The Craziest Dream Last Night come across very well. Thanks!

[@raphaelreiter]

;)

[@ninakim7282]

GREAT!

[@raphaelreiter]

:)

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

You know what they should use the Valve Trombone more often by adding new music parts for it.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

Marching Bands also have Valve Trombones. The Flugabone is a Valve Trombone wrapped like a Flugelhorn.

[@raphaelreiter]

Not the same sound

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@raphaelreiter It sounds more like a Regular Trombone cause of it being wrapped like a Flugelhorn so it has that Latin Vibe.

[@omarEltrombonero310]

I use to play Bb trombone when i first started . Now play the c valve trombone

[@raphaelreiter]

but... why?

[@Hec4490]

For banda

[@sogehtdasnicht]

i like the special asthmatic sound 😄

[@raphaelreiter]

haha

[@pe003]

I used to play the valve trombone with a small jazz ensemble, but to be honest I found it so heavy on my left hand I often wondered if I could get the same sound and more comfort with a baritone saxhorn

[@raphaelreiter]

👍🏻

[@BrianHutzellMusic]

My teacher thinks valve trombones are an abomination, but I like the instrument. The only one I've played is an older Holton. What are the best valve trombones today?

[@raphaelreiter]

what teacher would say that...

[@Aaron-Qman]

You should try the Superbone! Best of both worlds😎

[@raphaelreiter]

Yeah I did they are super fun!

[@Aaron-Qman]

@@raphaelreiter Nice!! I just got the Schargel Superbone by James Morrison. Long story short I'm definitely not going back to a regular slide/valve trombone!🎵 Hands down the most versatile high quality small bore tenor trombone to date! It's a dream to play.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@raphaelreiter A Soprano Version would be cool.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@Aaron-Qman What if they made a version w/ 4 Valves for more range?

[@Aaron-Qman]

@@RockStarOscarStern634 That would be even more amazing! No brainer to get lol.

[@elcuhaaron7113]

the valve trombone is used heavily in big brass sinaloan ensembles

[@raphaelreiter]

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@denysreis90]

+ videos valve trombone!🙏 Excelente 👏

[@raphaelreiter]

:))

[@joekennedy4486]

Not sure if you've answered this but the Ellington piece was "Koko"

[@raphaelreiter]

yessss

[@random_foo9712]

Do you recommend playing the valve trombone? I'm a saxophone player and clarinet player. Next year will be my first year of highschool. I want to play the valve trombone in the marching band. Should I do it? What are some tips for the valve trombone

[@raphaelreiter]

I you want to do it, then you should do it :)

[@tjsogmc]

As a general life rule you should never have to ask permission to learn a new instrument. If you have the desire, then that is all you should be concerned with. My advice when learning multiple instruments is to dig deep and study music theory. This is the key to unlocking how every instrument is organized and when you understand theory (particularly the magic of the 5ths), then you will be able to play any instrument very easily. You will not be thinking of a fingering for each individual note, but rather you will be only thinking of 5 patterns (that magic 5ths I mentioned) and you will automatically know what notes are assigned to them. It's really not hard at all to understand, don't let anybody tell you that it is. Play the valve trombone if that is what you want to do. Play a slide 'bone as well, and maybe even a schalmei if it makes you happy (although a schalmei is organized in binary and not 5ths).

[@alfonsobenitez8574]

Excellent.

[@raphaelreiter]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@paupaupaupaupau]

This is great, can you put more music up

[@raphaelreiter]

❤️❤️❤️

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

You just can't say Valve Trombone w/o Juan Tizol from Duke Ellington's Band who popularized it. It's much easier to play in tune on this Horn because of the bigger mouthpiece & the valves make it easier to play in tune. The 1st & 3rd valve slides should have a trigger to bring those notes into tune, & also they shoud be vented.

[@raphaelreiter]

it doesnt have to be a bigger mouthpiece.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@raphaelreiter The Bigger mouthpiece does give more room and the valves help with playing in tune.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@raphaelreiter it takes a Standard trombone mouthpiece

[@dariuscorba6458]

I am playing valve trombone as a beginner, of course right now, maybe i'll be in a brass band, who knows?

[@raphaelreiter]

❤️

[@leom4206]

Inspiring music and video! I forget the name of that Ellington tune, it is driving me crazy. What is it again?

[@raphaelreiter]

Thanks!

[@leom4206]

@@raphaelreiter sorry to keep bothering you. What kind of valve bone gig bag do you use?

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

5:57 Anyone familiar w/ that song?

[@raphaelreiter]

❤️

[@frakognome4434]

Later followed by John Sanders

[@raphaelreiter]

🤸

[@nathanheyns7135]

I would be interested to see how this compares to the bass trumpet.

[@raphaelreiter]

the bass trumpet has a bit more resistance and so not such an open sound. Beautiful in a different way ;)

[@mikesosa1146]

I have another question for you or any of the folks commenting on this site: can "The Flight of The Bumble Bee" aka "Green Hornet Theme" be played on a valve trombone? Am I crazy? Thanks!!!!

[@raphaelreiter]

yes, i have done it in school many times, its just chromatics and much easier than it seams

[@mikesosa1146]

@@raphaelreiter Again. Thanks so much. You made my day!!

[@tjsogmc]

Thanks for sharing. I have a 4 valve rotary trombone and I don't have the "whoofy" sound. In your opinion, is that a function of the difference between a rotary vs. piston valve, or just the way the particular individual instrument was designed? And I take my horns to the shop every year and have them dipped in the cleaning tank. If you play a lot, this service is totally worth it.

[@raphaelreiter]

its ther way they were designed, but I do prefer valves as they respond differently and sound a bit more direct. thats from my experience

[@tjsogmc]

@@raphaelreiter Thanks for your response. I guess at the end of the day it comes down to what you are willing to compromise to get the sound you need.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

Marching Bands also play Valve Trombone, they call it a Flugabone.

[@raphaelreiter]

its not exactly the same instrument

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@raphaelreiter It's a variant on the Valve trombone that's wrapped up in the shape of a Flugelhorn

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

5:57 Song name?

[@elz1250]

It’s more popular en banda music in Mexico. Regional Mexican music is the genre

[@raphaelreiter]

Nice

[@random_foo9712]

Yes. In sinaloense bands

[@random_foo9712]

Imagine trying to play a slide trombone while playing sinaloense music. I can imagine the crazy slide positions

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

The 1st and 3rd Valve Slides actually have Triggers that you can use to bring the notes more in tune

[@raphaelreiter]

Not on all horns.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@raphaelreiter Those Triggers are basically just a Finger Ring and a Thumb Saddle which are add on parts so they help

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@raphaelreiter kzbin.info/www/bejne/iKiXmaVnYpl1n8U but they would help

[@Jrg42beatscr]

I have a trombone olds with slide and Valves

[@raphaelreiter]

[@MrWorldclassmusician]

There’s a combination slide valve trombone right?

[@raphaelreiter]

The super bone!

[@ninakim7282]

Yes, I play valve.

[@raphaelreiter]

[@IndianOutlaw1870]

Bob Brookmeyer played one for decades.

[@raphaelreiter]

yes

[@mombooze]

No, unless you're comping chords on the piano while you play

[@raphaelreiter]

mmh

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

You can't say Valve Trombone without Juan Tizol.

[@raphaelreiter]

yes!

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@raphaelreiter Juan Tizol played Valve Trombone w/ Duke Ellington & his Jazz Orchestra, & these instruments are still fairly popular today (especially in Marching Bands) cause we can recreate that Iconic Duke Ellington sound.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@raphaelreiter John Sanders also played Valve Trombone with Duke Ellington

[@iwerdy]

Where can i learn to play valve trombone? will trompeth lessons be ok for it?

[@raphaelreiter]

mmh you would need a trombone teacher and a trumpet teacher... or find a valve trombone player online!

[@eKatzi]

Is it the same fingering as trumpet?

[@raphaelreiter]

yes

[@pe003]

Euphonium doesn't swung, tell that to Maynard Ferguson

[@raphaelreiter]

🫡

[@user-lh1ex8fn4x]

Do you still have it and are you selling it

[@raphaelreiter]

I still have it and I could sell it if I got the right offer

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

It's a real Horn

[@raphaelreiter]

yes, it is! i like it. Do you play valve trb?

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@raphaelreiter Yes I do in Marching Band because Marching Bands have Valve Trombones

[@tacoman4242]

No it's just a baritone at this point

[@raphaelreiter]

no, its not.

[@juanpablo092689]

Sell it to me!!!!!

[@raphaelreiter]

sure!

[@noahhogue9341]

Just get a trombone with a trigger so 6 and 7 is in 1 and 2

[@raphaelreiter]

no. thats not the point.

[@ScratchySlide]

No. It's not a real trombone. It's an abomination with valves. May as well play the euphonium.

[@raphaelreiter]

hahaha

[@yuckymike]

I played valve trombone in my 8th grade Jazz band (I was playing euphonium before and really wanted to get into jazz) but I now play bass trombone for my highschool jazz band (I got in freshman year)

[@raphaelreiter]

Peache s if you play bass trombone in your jazz band, it just means one thing : you’re the boss !! Enjoy the power my friend ...

[@killzz_yt-_-29]

I’m In 8th grade now as well playing the valve trombone for jazz and I played the euphonium and marching so far

[@Paul-tx8po]

I’m moving from the Trumper to the Euphonium and the Valved trombone. Any tips?

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@Paul-tx8po They have the same range & fingerings but down an Octave

[@charlesneuzil5765]

I enjoyed your comments and demo on the valve trombone. I never really understood how the valve trombone came to be in the first place, but they have always intrigued me. About six months ago I was out of town at a conference, and had dropped into a local music shop that had an Olds valve trombone for sale from the early fifties. It was in really good shape, and I always travel with a mouthpiece, so I tried it out. And since I had picked up a euphonium and was learning the fingerings I was able to play the horn as if I maybe knew what I was doing, sort of. It sounded pretty good, and I almost bought it, but hesitated as I couldn't see myself using it much, and I didn't want to spend money on something that would just sit around. Anyway, thanks for the video, most interesting! You have renewed my interest in these horns.

[@raphaelreiter]

Thanks Charles! You’re making good progress on slide technique so maybe it’s best you stick to slide trombone for a bit :)

[@johnries5593]

The valve trombone was introduced at the same time other valved brass instruments were, but the sound of the valve trombone is different enough from the slide trombone that the former fell out of favor.

[@thevoidanswerswithjazz2215]

I played euphonium and wanted to get into my school's jazz band. I got in, and am doing good into high school freshman year with it, it is an epic instrument for solos and all sorts of gucci, would reccomend. 👌🙃

[@raphaelreiter]

It is awesome tosolo with that’s true

[@amandabarrymore778]

YEs it is...I play one as I couldn't after 50 years learn the slide trom...so to help the Greater Good of my Suffolk Band I got one!!!! The sound is good anyway and that of a " Normal" trom

[@josevilla943]

If it exists, it is real.

[@lisam5491]

Wow nice!

[@raphaelreiter]

Li Sam :-))

[@barnabas5106]

Im playing trumpet . But wanted to play something else. This is ideal for me . I will buy one and get blowing thanks for video its gr8

[@bryanadrian441]

King 😍

[@hillock10]

You choose the valve trombone because mainly you are a trumpet player who prefers this instrument because the trumpet is very strenuous on the lips for high notes, and requires too much force for the higher registers, whereas the trombone can be played with much less force and longer and in a more relaxed way. In addition I suspect that the valve trombone can play fast note passages much faster than a slide trombone, which is downright cool for jazz and Dixie.

[@raphaelreiter]

Haha. No. That’s not the reason. I tell you the reason in the video ! But if it were it would indeed be a good reason.

[@leobino20]

Is it a Bb tune? I used to play trombone as a child. But so difficult to take the positions of slide again. Thinking about to take a valve trombon just to have fun. What you think?

[@raphaelreiter]

Leobino Araujo yes it is :)

[@raphaelreiter]

And yes you could it’s great fun and less hassle than slide trombone for sure

[@gregsimpson1433]

@@raphaelreiter I wish I had realized this when I was learning to play slide trombone as a euphonium player. In many respects, a slide is a handicap.

[@leobino20]

@@raphaelreiter Thank you for this comment and for talk about trombone on your channel, it really help and is very interesting. In your opinion what are the 3 or 5 best brands of valve trombone? And do you thing bass trumpet has a better intonation and sounds than valve trombone?

[@raphaelreiter]

@@leobino20 i dont know 5 brands, i know that yamaha has a good entry level one, the King is good, and there is also a nice Bach. I don't think that there is an intonation difference with bass trumpet. In my experience, the valve trombone projects more than valve trumpet, and blends better if you're playing with a section