Is The ZF Trans in The New Supra Better Than The V160?

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[@williamwilson5125]

Supra Fanbois are getting on my nerves, ignorantly stating falsehoods about the MKIV due to lack of knowledge. Finally a real MKIV owner who is hands on with his car and understands the similarities and differences between the old and the new. Great Content and keep up the excellent work! Oh yeah welcome to the BMW world and what we go thru. Lol

[@Monstero5o]

Pipe down bitch

[@walshja81]

That was a terrible response. MKV=BMW. End of story. None of the stats matter. This guy is doing what any other youtuber is doing and that looking for "anything" to make a video about to make money. That's all fine and dandy but this really isnt a necessary conversation. People that wanted a Toyota built MKV are passing because BMW built it. It's that simple.

[@ErnestDziadekGruz]

@@walshja81 I admit that MKV probably will be a good car, but it's not a Toyota. Almost everything is BMW except for shell. If it wasn't called Supra, there wouldn't be so much criticism, but when you put the greatest Toyota model name on something, it have to live up to the expectations. It doesn't. Simple as that. Second thing is that Supra was one of top Japanese sports car at the time. It was competing with GT-Rs, 911 Porsches etc etc. Nowadays it will struggle to keep up with mid range series 1 BMW (140i). GT-R probably will eat it half throttle. From my perspective Toyota noticed the hype on Supra badge and decided to make money with least cost. Written by MK4 TT6 supra owner :)

[@mohammeds5458]

You mean supra fanboys who can't get the supra at all Believe me the more hate of new supra from fanboys the more I like the new supra I'm not that big fan of supra but after what i read and heard about the new supra from engine, engineering, technology and the building gosh it's fantastic. Just i have convince that I'll purchase the new supra with out looking what bullshit supra fanboys saying on the new supra

[@williamwilson5125]

@@walshja81 I believe Toyota and its management are more than capable to make decisions for the brand. People have to remember car companies use parts from other companies all the time. The MkIV has a German transmission and now the MKV has a German motor. Get over it. Nissan did the same thing when they first introduced the Z car. The Z car was a Mercedes inline 6 motor and saved the company from disparity, all the while becoming the most successful sports car in Nissan history.

[@ryotaryuu]

The ZF8 is the best torque converter auto transmission made today and has been since it's inception in 2008. There are eight versions, including applications for AWD, that can handle from 300Nm - 1000Nm. Many manufacturers use the ZF8 including BMW, Chrysler (yes even the Hellcat and Track hawk and Demon), Jaguar, Volkswagen, Alfa Romao, Audi, Jeep, Rolls Royce, Maserati, Aston Martin, and Bently. It can achieve an 11% saving compared to the ZF 6-speed transmission and 14% versus modern 5-speed transmissions, and can achieve 200 millisecond shift times, which is almost as good as a dual clutch. The ZF8 can also shift in a non-sequential manner - going from gear 8 to gear 2 in extreme situations. Unless you are comparing it to a dual clutch auto, the ZF8 is superior performance oriented transmission. And some would even argue in some situations is even better than a dual clutch. www.caranddriver.com/features/a23367341/automatic-transmission-best-zf-eight-speed/

[@fry.master]

pretty damn crazy trans.... i was happy when they announced it would be in the new supra however a solid manual option should and could be available.

[@xavierpanohaya2647]

Exactly, and at least it kept it´s shape better than other revivals (looking at you, NSX)

[@GroovesAndLands]

I was on development team for hellcat and drove the 6spd Challenger and ZF8 charger versions a lot. I'm a 3-pedal guy but the zf8 really really impressed me. It doesn't suck... But I still prefer manuals, of course.

[@izzdin6228]

@Rico explanation?

[@e-dogjukic5951]

And yet All thos cars are unreliable

[@chrisgarsha2439]

These videos are great man! Really enjoying the depth of knowledge and info.

[@briansamuel5670]

Thanks for making these videos bro, respect.

[@rodneysteele7493]

Thanks for the breakdown. Great video

[@queensfinest18318]

My 335i uses the older 6hp transmission. The Transmission has Torque limiters from the factory. These transmissions can hold a lot more power than stock once they are flash for a higher torque limit. Check out a company called XHP and it will give you an idea of what you can do with the auto.

[@dylanowen9392]

The ZF8 does actually fully lock up, there is a lock up clutch in the converter that can achieve full lock up from as little as 15mph. That's why it isn't your average auto box. When rolling it acts more like an automated manual box because it locks off the converter and uses the wet clutch packs to shift (like having a manual box with 5 clutches), controlling slip on each pack to allow for those smooth shifts. This is also why the losses are so small due to the mechanical lock up clutch. The zf8 is way over engineered and once the software limitations are defeated (torque management). The 45(450NM) and 50(500NM) models have been known to hold well over 800NM

[@williamfenton6562]

Major factor with the B58 short block, you can not bore the cylinders.. due to the spray liner in cylinder wall

[@baraboo-nb7hv]

You can always sleeve it if for some reason 3000cc isnt enough for you

[@xavierpanohaya2647]

well, the R35 and recent GT500´s also have this, and at least I haven´t heard/read of problems with these

[@terlaluanjay]

@@xavierpanohaya2647 yea and there is a vr38 stroker kit so that can be done

[@izzdin6228]

@@baraboo-nb7hv why would 3L not be enough?

[@donttreadonusdotgov2086]

Yeah 3.0 is plenty even the massive horsepower supras are 3.4 and nobody needs that much power, i can assure you unless you are into highway racing or airport racing 3.0 bmw motor will be plenty for the chassis

[@MrTomuron]

There is a manual in development for the Mk5 if it will make it to productions depends on the sales

[@revmatchtv]

One of my subscribers sent me here! We are making similar videos.

[@BenPasriche]

Do you agree that when the Converter locks. It's technicaly In the gear ! But I get your point explaining the job of converter.

[@86media_]

im glad you are doing such informative videos on the car now i can show my ignorant friends why they are wrong lol.

[@doublevanoz]

Why are we wrong?

[@jakehoffman7694]

I think technology on active difs has come far. Mclaren uses it on all of their cars and they do well

[@tristanrediger]

BMW is not on their level

[@Voices-yi8ce]

it shifts in (.1 seconds) 100 milliseconds, not 1 100’th of millisecond.

[@jirace]

thank you. I was about to point this out too.

[@konstantingentz3840]

@PURE Function. Hey man here in Germany we have the B58 with a 6 Speed Manual in many BMWs. If Toyota stays only with the automatic this will become a very common swap.

[@redarmy1778]

When I was going to buy the car I have now, I was debating whether to pull out as it has the zf8, always been a manual guy , but it bull my socks off, gear changes lightning quick, won't have a car without a zf from now on

[@smilepermile888]

Really informative videos you're providing, just like RevMatchTV KZbin channel. I really do appreciate that you're analysing this car as objectively as you can unlike most of the anti-BMW sheep/bandwagon. Regarding the active diff, the aforementioned youtuber uploaded a video titled _'2020 Toyota Supra - Details and Specs'_ and if you jump to the 8:31 timecode, he films under the car and zooms in towards the differential, which has a BMW stamp on it. Would it be an evolved version of the Toyota differential in the ISF that they stuck a BMW stamp on, or would it be a similar pseudo-differential featured in the BMW M240i/M140i...who knows. Either way, I would be curious to see if Toyota made any improvements to the diff performance from that ISF diff or not.

[@bespincustompropsbombarta8300]

Toyota stated that currently they are unsure if they will add a manual transmission option for Europe as that's what we prefer over here compared to the States that was traditionally 75-80% auto trans cars, Europe has nearly always been 90% manual. If they think that they are going to lose sales then it will get fitted. If you want that option in the U.S. I suggest you start making a lot of noise about it and make Toyota notice. Most early mk3-4 supra's were auto which is why it's so difficult finding manual options, that and the fact they were designed as sports tourers and not sports cars.

[@755hp]

Well, the ZF transmission requires a Transmission Calibrator; the V160 does not. So from an OEM cost stand-point for Calibration in R&D departments in Toyota and BMW, I’d say the V160 is the way to go. Lol

[@DahkaShades]

I wonder if they will do a manual version using the 6sp from the Toyota Mark X

[@edgargoncas7]

Another youtuber said it could be a work in progress, since the launch version is selling so good, Toyota might put some money into R&D for an in house 6 spd manual gearbox

[@st1ckyplumz]

On the m3 it uses a carbon fiber drive shaft, so it would be pretty cool if they implement it to the new Supra and since it will be rear wheel drive the rear axles are gonna be beefy. Can’t really say much about the rear diff cause BMW has many variations. If they use a M series rear diff then it’s gonna be pretty freaking durable

[@johnnygt6039]

The ZF in my Scat is almost at 85k with no issues so far!

[@colinbarrineau3102]

Well let’s hope to God that they change the look if they continue production down the road

[@mike.135i]

is the new supra Auto better then the stock trans in a n55 DCT 135i?

[@Harolds0]

The apology at the beginning of the video does make the video sound better.

[@SkullanGuns]

Vain turbo are way better now then 5 years ago. I would like someone to adopted vain turbo and SP quick spool valve on a supra. My dream build.

[@carlos_zamora]

Thumbs up for the ice cold beer

[@michaelbusto4429]

Good informative video based on available information. I regret selling my 94' MKIV (and having another one stolen) for a down payment on a house as nowadays it would make a much bigger down payment (but i wouldnt sell it now though). I had both the Auto and the 6-speed. What suprises me somewhat is that the new Supra GR which only makes 15 more hp than the old stock Twin (sequential) turbo MKIV, manages to do 0-60 almost 1 second quicker, which is a great deal faster (I recently had a 2016 C63 with 469 hp which does 0-60 in 4 seconds and this new Supra does nearly that with a lot less HP). I imagine the better 0-60 (between MKIV and MKV) must be due mostly to the more modern transmission as 15 hp and 50 tq extra wont do that, nor the slight difference in weight (compared to the auto MKIV). I suspect that the new engine and transmission wont hold as much maximum power as the old one did unmodified, but most that buy this new one (including me hopefully in the future) wont modify it past the mechanical limits of the block and transmission anyway. My MKIV had 600 WHP, which im sure would be no issue for the new one on stock block and transmission.

[@Realtime1501]

the funny thing is that the zf and v160 might be currently the same price

[@brandoncash4461]

My ram v6 and my dads v6 Hyundai both share same trans as the new Supra, all have zf 8 speed lol

[@Felix-ry9pc]

Brandon Cash the thing is your dads truck weights a-lot, dude upgrade the turbo, add e85, tune. most of these guys bitching must be v8 muscle cars owners that only care about how high the hp is

[@johndoe2808]

If you want Manuel, asking the little fella out for drinks and stinks...get you some.

[@DJZander01]

Wonder how much different this transmission is compared to the zf8 speed in my isf. 🤔

[@ryotaryuu]

Your Lexus uses the AA80E wich is an Aisin made version of the ZF 8HP. Here you can read about it and how it compares to the ZF 8HP. blogs.youwheel.com/2014/04/29/latest-transmission-titbit-aisin-aa80e/

[@e-dogjukic5951]

The resale of those cars speak for itself ill Bay my supra 3 years old for 1/8 of a price off the new one

[@denizhanozkara]

lock the focus when you record bud!

[@emeraldages]

8:30 big pff. A lot of super cars use open eletronic LSDs. It works, just doesn't allow fo fun burnout, doughnuts, drifting or power sliding shennangians.

[@brianhill4153]

Is it a debauchery or a debacle?

[@xaviergreer2072]

Can we all as car enthusiasts get along and just wait till the car comes out to make our opinion, I’m tired of seeing these petty arguments splitting the car community apart over the decision of one car. There are those literally bashing tf out of others cause they can’t afford the car?? Like who does that, at one point everyone could barely afford a damn phone let alone a car. Then you have others that a die hard Supra fan that’s just blindly sending shots to the company for their decision 🤦🏽‍♂️. The car community are supposed to come together help support each other cause it’s a dying culture not be at each other’s throats smdh.

[@DylanTK]

V160 was rated for 490nm = 361ft lbs IIRC, but either way it holds wayyyy beyond in reality that so....

[@blackwellm23]

I think we need apples to apples comparison.

[@alexvillalobos7137]

Maybe a cd009 adapter plate will come out

[@briantristan5634]

And just disconnect the tcm

[@baraboo-nb7hv]

🤦🏻‍♂️

[@esteemedenergy]

The X5M uses a variant of this transmission and it is known to be dead reliable.

[@arevo8702]

Well it's a good car thats all

[@86media_]

you should compare it to the manual that comes in the new z4 because if we get a manual itl probably be that

[@tropicalstorm339]

The Z4, at least for the moment, does not come with a manual transmission either.

[@tropicalstorm339]

Toyota has indicated that depending on customer demand, a manual transmission might be offered in the future.

[@jackydewar3419]

with current day big boost aplications the zf does not work. a very nice box when built and run at around 500 kw,drag down the 1/4 with a zf they will fall apart very fast.we have smashed 6 v160 always 3 and 5 gear sets.we don't 1/4 mile drag.our supra is set up for top end runs,we now run a glide and love it,the zf and the v160 have great points its just how you use them.i think the zf is used in the Australian falcon.and works well as a family hauler,and have fun at the track on the weekends.my 2c but everyone going big hp is turbo 400 or glide.

[@ryotaryuu]

Really? That's funny because it's the same Auto transmission Dodge uses in the Demon, and Hellcat which are both boosted.

[@michaelevans831]

Only 5% of people are even going to mod it over 500hp.

[@Andreze123]

Zf8 doesn’t shift as fast as DCT it’s quick but not that quick

[@krismcleod272]

I think the BMW mkv is going to be very successful. Sorry or is that Z5... i'm confused. I'm in my happy place in the mkiv and will enjoy the chase with the first mkv i come across on the road 😎

[@ammoking6099]

v160/v161 the kings of kings

[@jongonegone1262]

NO ONE WILL REALLY KNOW HOW GOOD IT IS UNTIL USED AND ABUSED THREW MILES AND DISASSEMBLY AND REBUILDS.

[@TheRzMike]

Regarding the shifting speed. How long time does it take when you are in "manual mode". In all auto cars I have tested the manual shifting is unbearable slow. Like if you floor it in first and want to shift at 6000 you better be pushing the button at 4000 or else you hit revlimiter

[@Voices-yi8ce]

It’s user error that slows it down. Paddle shifts in my 228i with the ZF8 are insanely fast. It makes peak power at 5500 rpm and I can make it shift right after. The first 2 gear changes are SO fast that I let the auto manage it at first, then use the paddles once I hit third or fourth.

[@robertebob3596]

My M135i is instant you touch the paddle it shifts its awsome , no lag whatsoever

[@TheRzMike]

@@robertebob3596 ok ill have to look for a vid on that. Just watched aasbo drive the lfa a few years ago. Its so slow to shift its embarrassing. Same goes for e gear Lambo. Cant compare to a good dogbox or a real sequential with air shifter

[@robertebob3596]

@@TheRzMike Im no tech wizard so dont fully understand the internals but if your foot to the floor and touch the paddle at 6800 it will change up before it hits 6900 and red line is 7000 so im happy with its speed. The ZF8 is fitted in a lot of cars but i hear the BMW software is the best so that has a baring on its operation.

[@TheRzMike]

@@robertebob3596 sounds solid man :)

[@melissahollandsbiggestfan5812]

If you’ve got enough money to buy an a90 supra then wouldn’t you have enough to gte swap it and just make it a real Supra? 🧐 itd be worth the money driving an up to date looking supra with the backs of the engine n transmission and all

[@xxxxghostxxxx2052]

torque is importance number, exp: 300hp but 500tq

[@escueme]

The ZF will probably need new solenoids by 90k miles

[@jonathan7744]

Well apparently when in doubt with whether the zf transmission can hold power, swap in a grand cherokee TRAILHAWK transmission, as they can hold 900 Nm.... kinda joking but well see.

[@izzdin6228]

The trackhawk shares the same zf model as the Aston Martin dbs superlegerra, so that autobox can take the extra twist.

[@jonathan7744]

@@PureFunction Being young, I really hope a bunch of people buy the supra so I can get my hands on one for cheap once they start selling used....

[@izzdin6228]

@@jonathan7744 man with a plan eh?

[@jonathan7744]

@@izzdin6228 I'mma broke man with a plan, aka I got ideas for other people to try

[@izzdin6228]

@@jonathan7744 well good luck in the future bud, I know i need it too.

[@mikeortiz6584]

100ms you serious..Check how fast VW DSG/S-Tronic it is a DCT but compare shift times..8ms vs 100ms

[@Kona61]

The ZF is not rated to 500 Ft Lbs of torque, it is actually rated for 500 Nm. Which means it is actually rated for 370 Ft Lbs

[@ryotaryuu]

There are eight versions of the ZF from 350 Nm-900 Nm.

[@Kona61]

Captain Howdy the 50 is 500nm

[@ryotaryuu]

@@Kona61 I understand that. Just like the ZFHP70 is 700. I was just letting you know that there are 8 versions of the ZF8. My bad though, it's 300Nm - 1000Nm. I was going off memory. Lol.

[@_i-kr6eg]

How can you compare them if their not even the same type of transmission. One is very old technology compared to newer automatic transmission of today .???!!!! Maybe if both were real manual transmission like ones with a hydraulic clutch and all those dinosaur gears forks like real transmission should have.

[@_i-kr6eg]

@@PureFunction fair enough then i think toyota a90 owers will be looking for crashed bmw with n58 manual transmissions to then bolt on the the new ( supra) and some software hack to trick the ecm 's

[@ebanrin1121]

Don’t matter it’s automatic

[@alexthornton4088]

They should have just mark this car as a BMW

[@doublevanoz]

The new NSX, I didn't like at first, but it grew on me. The BRZ never grew on me, this new super will never grow on me. It just gives me that weak teenager vibe. The Mark 4 was from the God's. This new one is from the parts bin!

[@crispinsugita9398]

The mkiv didn't use common Toyota parts? Ridiculous. Look at the mk4's steering wheel, the interior parts, the 2jz! All were "parts bin"

[@doublevanoz]

@@crispinsugita9398 get technically out here. It's a figure of speech

[@VolkerHett]

Put the new Supra on a 2fast2furious sequel and about half of the people will accept it as the 20 years newer one, 1/3rd will complain about the camera and the rest will boycott the movie because it's not canon, the Klingons look wrong and it lacks the spirit of Roddenberry :D

[@sisupower970]

Barra the Mk4👍

[@GroovesAndLands]

1/100 millisecond? No... You meant to say 100 milliseconds, which is 1/10 second.

[@SkullanGuns]

I found makers Mark's on my head with a Yamaha logo. Not sure if toyota made mark 4 supra motor.

[@tropicalstorm339]

Yamaha designed the cylinder heads of the 2JZ. Toyota did everything else and the engine was assembled at the Toyota facility. Yamaha also designed the cylinder heads of the 5.0 liter V8 of the IS-F, RC-F, GS-F and LC... plus the 2000GT. The LFA engine was co-designed and co-developed by Toyota and Yamaha. Yamaha is partly owned by Toyota.

[@godder1an]

@@tropicalstorm339 Yamaha didnt do anything on the 2j. Yamaha designed the entire 1j, thats why their name Is in the timing cover. Then Toyota tweaked the 1j to get the 2j. Pretty much just More deck height to get 3l of displacement

[@tristanrediger]

The ZF is a fun transmission, it shifts quick and firm for an auto but I'd rather have a dct. I've driven both

[@sigmaprojects]

Honestly I'd also love to see the ZF 8 speed compared to the new Toyota Direct shift 8 speed and 10 speed autos. I've been hearing that Toyota's latest version is actually nicer than the ZF.

[@BoAhHao]

Yea.. Purist fanatics are ignorant, probably most of them don't even own a supra. BMW has reputation building great chassis & engine. I had M3 e36 euro once, they're great, but the electronics & engine always have problems. Suck.. Not good experience with bmw engine. I sold it, replace with a 4 door bmw e36 and i put 2JZ-GTE with ATF speed AUTO in it. Upgrade the engine & it has 671 ftlbs of torque, until now it still runs well. What i think the most important is that i enjoy it & have fun with it. It is a great feeling driving the car you built, especially when you're making fun of some supercar HaHaHa... I may say my bmw is yamaha powered, with american power (all upgrade parts are american), not toyota.

[@BoAhHao]

@@PureFunction i learn something new today, thanks mate!! Cheers from the other side of the earth :)

[@BF109G4]

Zupra fanboys know nothing about the soul of the supra. The 2020 Zupra has nothing related with the Supra which was a genuine super reliable Japanese car. I want to feel the soul of the supra

[@michaelevans831]

Let's be real. Only 1% of people who buy this car are going to mod it for over 500hp.

[@esteemedenergy]

The old Supra is OLD, OLD, ANCIENT, and OLD. It was not leading edge when released. Finally Toyota has a Supra worthy of it’s name.

[@cobratoxic]

I love toyota but this new supra I still dont like it.

[@jorgevillacis8127]

they both GERMAN

[@mrkouki180sx]

one is auto the other is not who wants an auto

[@doublevanoz]

The real Supra fanboys are.. the ones making excuses for this new sad excuse of a Supra! Like a bunch of mother's. at least BMW when they dicked us over on their M cars took them a good twenty or thirty years, Toyotas just like... great Supra. Shitty supra

[@FordSierraIS]

i cant watch your vids. echo is unbearable

[@LaStanley]

New Supra/BMW is just rubbish! Doesn't deserve to even be called a Supra.

[@BF109G4]

The new Supra is total bullshit

[@dannoyes4493]

Sorry, No Manual, No Sale.