Is the ZWO ASI 1600MM camera as good as they say it is? CMOS vs CCD!

The ZWO ASI 1600MM Cooled camera has become hugely popular over the last few years - but is the hype worth it? I compare this camera with an equivalent CCD camera to try and get to the bottom of it all.
Sponsored by Bintel - www.bintel.com.au
Support my alcoholism by getting some Star Stuff stuff:
/ @dylanodonnell
Dylan's Telescopes, Cameras & Equipment
----
Celestron RASA 8" Telescope
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Celestron NexYZ 3-Axis Smartphone Adapter
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Skywatcher EQ8Rh Pro Mount
Usa : bit.ly/2NMD1em
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Celestron CGX Mount
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Celestron RASA F2 11" Telescope
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Celestron 11" Edge HD
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QHY268M Mono CMOS Camera
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Lunt40mm Solar Telescope
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Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer 2i Pro Pack
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ZWO ASI 174MM (Planetary / Solar Camera)
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ZWO ASI 120MM. (Guide Camera)
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ZWO ASI 1600MM (Deep Space Camera)
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Celestron 0.7x reducer for 11" Edge HD
bit.ly/379s0LI
Celestron 0.7x reducer for 9.25” Edge HD
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Celestron 9.25” Edge HD
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Canon 6D mkII DSLR
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Tokina 16-28mm Lens
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Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L III USM Ultra Wide Angle Zoom Full Frame
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Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM Lens
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Dylan’s links
----
PATREON : / dylanodonnell
WEB : deography.com
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Intro Music - "Moving the Ocean (Aerologic Edit)" by Blastculture.

[@OLD-AND-UGLEE]

Mine is getting delivered today!!! Can't wait...

[@elad1970]

Great vid as usual. I'm using the ZWO ASI294MC PRO which I believe is a very similar camera but shoots in colour. For a beginner who lives under beautiful dark skies and hasn't gotten into using filters yet it gives me amazing results...

[@DylanODonnell]

Yes I believe it is! Mono will give you a bit more detail but having a one shot colour is very good to have on hand.

[@CountCarbsNotCals]

I've owned and used the ZWO ASI 1600mc, and it was fantastic, my main astro cam. I recommend it.

[@paulbenoit249]

Great review Dylan as always. Thanks for the time and energy put into this. You are a very good technical resource. Cannot wait to see you abusing your rasa8 now

[@DylanODonnell]

Hehe thanks Paul .. the abuse will commence shortly 😆

[@rosevan5485]

Hi Dylan. Thank you for doing this comparison video... Much appreciated. I always wondered if as a newbie in this astrophotography world , if I should get a CCD or a CMOS... I finally decided on the ZWO 1600 MM - Cool Pro . I like it very much and for me, I have had no buyers’ dissonance with it. Cheers ! Oh yeah one last thing, your last words in all your videos.... love it mate, so true !!! Keep up your great work, and thank you again for your videos and hard work .

[@DylanODonnell]

Hey thanks Rosevan! I’m glad the camera is performing as well for you as it does for me! And glad you get the last words too... many don’t ;)

[@jdova4944]

I huge thank you for posting these videos and inspiring/teaching us noobs. I also started with Celestron SCTs and currently own a 9.25 on a VX mount. I am looking to get a Hyperstar for it in the future and am in the market for the proper CCD/CMOS camera. I have narrowed it down to this camera and the ZWO ASI294 Pro. I have done a bunch of planetary and moon work already and feel like I should move on to deep sky targets. Keep up the great work bro! I will continue to follow in your footsteps, lol

[@DJRonnieG]

I wish someone would invent an alternative to flyer wheels. Like a belt fed after strip... the rount filters would sit in frames on a flexible ribbon as I imagine it. If that existed cheaply enoug, I would make the plunge for RASA. Even though I don't do robotic astronomy, I'd really like to have that option. Once onhave an electronic focuser I'll be good to go since I already have an electronic filter wheel.

[@gwzapo]

Great video with a nice take on the 1600mm camera. It is a very popular camera that grew very popular quickly here in the US. Thank you for this video!

[@DylanODonnell]

Thanks Gary!

[@RaysAstrophotography]

Great sense of humor and obviously an excellent Review. You are a pro in this stuff. Great work!

[@DylanODonnell]

Hehe thanks as always Ray! At least a few ppl think I’m funny 😁

[@GarnettLeary]

Dylan O'Donnell I think you have great humor but who cares... we’re all dead anyway.

[@jrhalabamacustoms5673]

Anybody else remember the book CCD Camera Cookbook, Richard Berry? I still have the camera I built (mid 90's?). Be fun to compare it to one of these modern cameras, but would likely have to write all new software, yeah not gonna happen.

[@Wolfie6020]

Thanks Dylan, your images are fabulous.

[@DylanODonnell]

Cheers Wolfie!

[@vejeke]

A year ago I bought the ASI178MC. I also bought a Peltier plate (in fact I bought 5 for about ten dollars). Good camera for planetary use, and with the combination "Peltier + old CPU heatsink" I have also been able to use it for deep space. It's not very elegant but it works.

[@DylanODonnell]

Nice.. nothing like a bit of DIY!

[@denodan]

Love your videos. Good seeing someone down here in this part of world well known in the astrophotography world. I often watch you and Trevor from astro backyard, you two are well known. While I dont do DSO imaging have touched slightly on planety photography, getting into DSO thr cost gets very expensive just for thr camera, so beyond my budget, but all the same very informative videos

[@dgodiex]

Got mine just weeks ago and I'm in love. ;) Well, 6 months ago I pointed my phone to the eyepiece of our family telescope and took a blurry pic of tiny Saturn, little I knew by then what amateur astronomy had become in these recent years, I swear I thought this kind of images where Hubble's and ESA's exclusively, so I'm still blown away by the whole thing, be it CCD or CMOS. But I'm really glad this level of quality is so affordable these days. Thanks Dylan! you and a few others like Astrobackyard and Chuck Astrophoto have been invaluable since I started this journey. Keep it up

[@DylanODonnell]

It’s a renaissance isn’t it? Welcome to the (Astro) club!

[@dgodiex]

@@DylanODonnell It really is! Clear skies and thanks for the humor, too.

[@Miguel_Noppe]

Nice review as always, i've only just started astrophotography, so i chose a DSLR and ED80 as a starting point, but i have to say, that RASA 8" from your previous video and a ZWO camera sure looks like a winner combo without breaking the bank.

[@DylanODonnell]

Exactly! They aren’t cheap up front but considering the time saved and how forgiving they are of cheaper mounts / guiding etc it saves a lot of time/money in the long run!

[@astronomylivestream]

I just happen to be looking at this camera a few days ago. After watching your video I’m going to look into it even further. As for the lunar eclipse last Sunday night and to make a long story short. We had a clear sky. I did capture the meteor impact on the moon. We had 390,000 viewers that night. The live chat was packed. Fun was had by all. I green screened myself into the live stream. Speaking about building web sites. I myself, taught myself (x)html and java script to become a web master years ago. Now a days it’s drag and drop to build a web site... I use Square Space now.

[@DylanODonnell]

Sounds like a great livestream! I'm glad I got into web tech when I did .. of course there's been a shift to drag and drop sites for small business, but for actual online enterprise I'm not worried .. (eg building custom astronomy tools for bintel's website!)

[@patrickmckay403]

As usual, thanks for the review as a side by side comparison. Too many times you see what are essentially unboxing videos with no rationale for why you might own it or what makes it different.

[@DylanODonnell]

My feeling exactly ! Gotta have a little substance. There was more I should have tested but this was a good start.

[@GionKunz]

I bought it few months ago and its sooooo coooooool (-40 °C below ambient temperature to be precise). I can only compare to uncooled DSLR but the SNR I get is just so amazing. I simply love it...

[@DylanODonnell]

My feeling exactly!

[@gerryvaldez654]

Great video, keep them coming, please. The ASI1600 does seem to be the go-to camera right now. Seeing a lot of impressive images being socialized that were taken with it. Off topic, I hit like on the video and a few minutes later, received a FB message from ZWO inviting me to their public FB group. Impressive...

[@DylanODonnell]

Heh I wonder if that’s related. I’m in online marketing and don’t think we have a tool to do that.

[@gerryvaldez654]

@@DylanODonnell Me too and while I know 2nd and 3rd party data is commonly used in Marketing solutions, this would be near real time. I would be impressed if that was the case here. And I did join the group so there is that. :)

[@lcxt9]

Hope to see the ZWO 1600 with the 8 inch RASA. Great video.

[@DylanODonnell]

I’m looking forward to trying it ! Should be a good match.

[@michaellovell4390]

The rasa only has 22mm image circle.

[@DennisCarmody]

Excellent review! I've got about the exact same results and prefer my ASI1600 to any other cameras I have on the shelf right now. CMOS's high sensitivity lets me get the same total integration time using many more frames of much shorter individual exposure times. My mount it less than stellar (upgrade is this Spring's gift to myself) so the shorter I can get my frames the better. At f/2.3 I'm usually sub 30 seconds for LRGB and sub 90 seconds for SHO to get minimally adequate frames. I pay the price in hard drive space and processing time, but that's ok.

[@DylanODonnell]

Yeh you don’t truly get more signal with more exposures BUT you can push the images harder in post without it turning into grainy mush if you have lots of subs in the stack to start with .. I love doing quick runs with 1 min subs in f2 !

[@chadcwk]

How did I not find this channel earlier!?!?

[@LAshotts]

Nice review Dylan

[@DylanODonnell]

Hey thanks buddy!

[@clintjeffrey3340]

Just watched this...v-e-r-y interesting stuff....thanks Dylan.

[@DylanODonnell]

Glad you liked it :) it’s an excellent camera for the price but newer 16 bit options are starting to permeate the market now which are worth the price of admission.

[@GalacticHunter]

What a fantastic comparison, exactly what we were looking for, thanks!!! PS: Super jealous of that dome :D

[@DylanODonnell]

Oh glad it helped! Love your episodes by the way. Let me know if you want to collab on something :)

[@GalacticHunter]

@@DylanODonnell Oh thanks man! yeah that would be awesome, if you have a cool idea in mind email us or message us anywhere :D That sounds fun.

[@DylanODonnell]

Shoutout for you in latest vid :)

[@joelmspencer]

haha i laughed at the do you make any money, laugh, serious face part

[@DylanODonnell]

Te he he

[@derekderek2570]

"No... anyway this video is sponsored.." 🤣🤣🤣

[@EarNoodles]

@@derekderek2570 No matter how much money he got from sponsors he would probably spend 1000x more on new astrophotography gear. It's a sickness. :p

[@TheBignick243]

anyways here's Wonderwa....Bintel

[@Mohammed-zo3qq]

i love your videos, keep up the good work :)

[@DylanODonnell]

Cheers Mo! Appreciate it!

[@arkonenne]

très belles photos bravo !!!!

[@jasonnewton1998]

Picked up a 183mm pro and qhy 294c recently; almost went asi 1600 but lack of AR coating on the chip and a some horror stories with the edgehd's and reducer convinced me to sacrifice sensor size and go to 183mm. Course it has amp glow.

[@DylanODonnell]

Good to know .. will be interesting to see how badly this issue affects the ongoing imaging I do with it!

[@justicegear85]

Excellent Review and Excellent Video!!!!

[@justicegear85]

Best part is at 1:17

[@DylanODonnell]

Hehe glad you enjoyed it!

[@nathanbrady789]

First 5 seconds of this video is spot on.

[@BrianH1313]

Interesting comparison.

[@DylanODonnell]

Thanks Brian!

[@WhiteWulfe]

I've been contemplating the IMX294 based camera from them for if/when I get a proper setup (saving up for a Sky Guider Pro, and some sort of longer lens at the moment, even if my camera has one of those insanely noisy Panasonic sensors in it (G85 is not very well known for it's long exposures, we won't talk about the "rainbow of colours" 60 second dark frames even at ISO 1600...) Right now, it's one of those "eh, it's a camera, I'll use what I can for now" alongside the desire to never spend twenty minutes on my knees (on ice, in -8C (-13C windchill) weather) fighting a tiny little tabletop tripod so I can take photos of a lunar eclipse. Sure, I'm happy with the photos (especially since they were not only a first try, but also was fighting clouds) but I want a tracker so I can actually try longer exposures, and of course, a 12-60mm lens doesn't quite reach all that far (neither does hubby's 14-150mm for that fact, but it goes further than my longest lens does!) I might consider the idea of a mono camera though if I get a dedicated astro camera, because by the sounds of it cutting through light pollution (I live just outside of downtown in a large city, most maps put us at, uhm... Bortle 8.5-9 where I live) is somewhat easier.

[@DylanODonnell]

Yeh I hear yah.. I’m a lazy astronomer at best so the quicker the better! That’s why I often combine one shot colour data with a mono layer so I’m only doing two image runs instead of 4 like many do!

[@GarnettLeary]

I’ve been watching “Star Stuff” regularly lately. I love your sarcasm. How much does the observatory you bought run? I’m curious who, of the bigger astro channels, will tackle the Starlink topic first. Lol! Jk. Our skies are being stolen!!!! We’re all gonna die anyway. ;p

[@photosinferno6870]

Cool comparison of the ‘new kid’ on the block to the CCD behemoths - ZWooooohhhh - love it ;) -ps: Music’s improved 2. 😁

[@DylanODonnell]

Hehe glad the sponsor is happy.. I shall eat another day.

[@matthiasnott]

Thanks with all the nice review. I have a Celestron 11'' EdgeHD on a CGX-L, and don't have the HyperStar at the moment. Which camera (there are just too many for me to understand from ZWO) would you use for both DSO as well as Planetary?

[@DylanODonnell]

These ZWO CMOS cams allow you to do a region-of-interest crop on the chip and get super high frame rates for planetary .. so this cam or other newer ones in it's class would be appropriate. Check the bintel astronomy calculator though!

[@utkarshmishra2766]

I would be getting the Asi 1600mono very soon Still have huge Crush (Lol) to CCD I have used the fli proline 16803 via remote setup with 16" f3.6 dream scope and Paramount Its fantastic CCD no noise at all ..I never used any calibration frames also I tested it with very low integration time .. Just can't really compare with the ASI 1600mm but ASI 1600 would be awesome for my own perfect small setup

[@DylanODonnell]

I know right. I love my CCDs!

[@davidjennings2733]

Hey Dylan, do you have any videos on how you get rid of your hot pixels and processing your lights, darks, etc? Would really be interested in seeing some. Thanks again..

[@DreBo99]

Hey Dylan, I have a general remark/issue/question concerning "noise" in (master-)dark frames. I always thought with the dark frame calibration you remove the dark current signal (which is noisy) from the light frame. To have fairly low noise in the master dark you record many dark frames and average out the noise as much as you can. Some noise still stays because the SNR is not very high when you dark images. If all that is correct then you don't really remove noise by substracting the master dark from your light subs or am I getting something wrong?

[@DylanODonnell]

I think you’re on the right track. You don’t remove random noise with darks, you remove some amp glow and dead pixels. Stacking lights removes random noise.

[@Lord_Joseph17]

Great video. Newbie here. I expecting to receive my very first Telescope skywatcher xxg12. I looking to get a gizmo so I can connect it to my tv and control the scope from inside the house while the scope is outside. Is the ZWO ASI294MC Pro recommended? Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

[@antandshell]

Welcome to the party 😋 . What is the maximum wind you can image in? Does the igloo help?

[@DylanODonnell]

Hehe, cheers! Well the windy was pretty gusty .. it can handle a light breeze because of the igloo but the 11" RASA is a huge sail that will catch anything significant.

[@hael8680]

Good review. Where is the narrowband preview tool on Bintel's website? It is an awesome idea!!

[@DylanODonnell]

Thanks, it's no replacement for processing but I use it regularly when I have narrowband data to see which palette I'd like to explore :) bintel.com.au/narrowband-preview-tool/

[@nathankimber7378]

Hi Dylan - Thanks for the video. Attractive camera. Has a slightly more agreeable pixel size then some of the others in the range I've looked at but its still a tad out of my price range. The 183MM may be a suitable alternative but would have me sampling at 0.7 arc per pixel. Any view on this/the camera generally?

[@DylanODonnell]

Haven’t tried it myself but looks great from what I can tell!

[@astromansid]

I plan on getting a 1600MM one day, thanks for this video Dylan. Look forward to some more comparisons and your thoughts on the camera after using it a few times. Did you get any filters with it from ZWO? I'd be interested to know if the Filters that are sold with the 1600MM on the Bintel site are worth getting for a beginner into narrow band imaging. Also the prefered size. I see Bintel have the 1 1/4" filters, the 31mm and larger filters, would the 1 1/4" filters allow enough image size through without vignetting? Just a few Q's :) Keep the vids coming, you are getting much better and seem more comfortable now, well done.

[@DylanODonnell]

Cheers man. I’m fakin it till I’m makin it ;) I’ll be testing with the 8” rasa first so different set of filters. You’ll definitely see more from this cam as I keep testing it!

[@ytano5782]

I‘m new in astrophotography. What are the pros for a CMOS camera, if we compare it with CCD in the same price range?

[@anata5127]

This is great. Let’s take pictures with f10 8-11” Sct on CMOS with their tiny pixels and no binning and CCD with large pixels and binning capabilities. Then, we will see what camera is boss. CMOS is good for small aperture, tiny telescopes and f2-4. Basically, it is good for taking pictures of massive nebulas and large DSobjects.

[@azcharlie2009]

How did you get F/6.3 out of the Celestron Edge HD? I thought the 6.3 wouldn't work on the Edge?

[@DylanODonnell]

There’s a third party reducer that works at 6.3 for the 9.25” .. it’s ok but not as good as the 0.7x from Celestron

[@christopherlyons7613]

Thanks for the great videos! I'm new to imaging with a cooled mono camera (been doing DSLR imaging with my Canon 6d for the past few years) and I now have the 1600mm Pro. Weather has been miserable for the past month and haven't had a single clear night to get out and try it yet. Have some questions on calibration frames using the 1600mm. Have been reading on CN that there are some issues with bias frames (I believe it was bias) with the Panasonic sensor. Have you seen any problems? Exactly what set of calibration frames are you using with it? I use PixInsight. Appreciate any help you can provide.

[@DylanODonnell]

Hi Christopher! I don't do bias specifically, I think the profile is contained in the master dark stack so I've never bothered. See my video here about darks (I think I pinned or left the best PI dark stack settings in there) : kzbin.info/www/bejne/boqnnIyKmqmXfas

[@christianvulpescu1398]

Hey Christopher, I use the 1600 MM Pro for a while. I use flat darks instead of bias. My problem is that I do too much noise reduction in the stack if I don't take care. It works excellent. CS Christian

[@BSVGenius]

Hey ya mate. Hope you winning? Quick question, I have an explore scientific E80, 480mm and have used the Bintel Tools to see if it works with ASI533. Looks ok until i add a reducer Then it becomes over sampled. Do I actually need one? Everyone seems to go on about FF/FR, i have none. Or should i just get a FF and get on with it? Cheers, have a good xmas Master Dylan.

[@DylanODonnell]

oversampled is not as bad as undersampled.. but the image will feel "softer" with no appreciable increase in detail for the resolution the camera has.

[@briancummins8452]

What type of filters did you use? I have the ASI1600 and struggle with large reflection halos near bright stars.

[@DylanODonnell]

I've heard a few people mention this now.. something to do with the coating (or lack off) on the window. I used a baader highspeed f2 Ha filter for this test (originally designed for hyperstar)

What does it mean a 1.2 megapixel against 16 megapixel in astrophotography really, is it about the real zoom size of the photo as happends in reflex camaras or quality of the final product.

[@DylanODonnell]

Answered you in latest video :)

[@AstroSchnitzel]

Do you have a recommendation for the Nexstar 127 slt? What is a good Zwo camera that you would recommend since this telescope focuses more on planets and double stars?

[@DylanODonnell]

Maybe check the bintel astronomy calculator with your scope and the ZWO 174mm or ZWO 290mm for planetary .. both great planetary cams!

[@robsbackyardastrophotograp8885]

I personally prefer the 183MM for the resolution and QE peak. I have a high focal length to start with, so a slightly bigger sensor wasn't worth the $, and I'm happy with it as a whole.

[@DylanODonnell]

Sounds great.. they have quite a large range now and this cam is a little old even but still a workhorse!

[@poly_hexamethyl]

6:43 It looks like you have a dark enough sky that camera noise dominates in a long exposure. In that case I wonder if you might benefit from a camera that is cooled with liquid nitrogen?

[@Max6785]

I've got this camera and I've been using it for about a year now. One complaint I've seen pop up and have had some issues with especially on the horsehead is internal reflections caused by the glass over the sensor in the 1600MM-Cool on very bright stars such as Alnitak; something about ZWO not using anti-reflective coatings on it or something, so you get light ping-ponging around and very bright stars have a strange square pattern around them. All in all though, 1600MM Cool is an absolute beast for the price.

[@judd_s5643]

Max Pike @ I suspect the reason they don’t put a AR coating on the glass is because it reduces available light by 6%.

[@DylanODonnell]

That’s very interesting .. I thought alnitak here looked quite reasonable in this test considering it’s a ten minute exposure at f2 !

[@hael8680]

The trick is to lower the exposure time. Horse head, not more than 3 minutes. The longer you stay on that bright star the more reflection you get.

[@Max6785]

@@DylanODonnell Yeah that's what was so surprising when I saw your 10m shot. imgur.com/a/njnFDcA That's ~6h of 10m Ha exposures at unity gain w/ the ZWO-1600...few other people were having similar issues with a similar setup in the facebook group where I first heard of the issue, and heard it described as an internal reflection w/ the sensor glass. Dunno...either way, sick shot, really looking forward to seeing what you can pull off the with camera!

[@mirko-astro]

Very “Mm-cool” video. I’m assuming these were both narrowband images you were showing and both cameras set to similar gain? Marvelous results.

[@DylanODonnell]

Correct! All parameters the same to the best of my ability. Thanks !!

[@craigmclaughlin802]

Appreciate vids, Newbie here in Texas(clearskys baby). Have a C9XLT9.25/cgemii on special order, so boning up to arrive at this point of astrophoto. Interesting with keyboard in background connection to Sky observing, String Theory check it out super cool stuff(frequencies and all). The body was never alive it is just animated by the soul like when you hop into a cah an turn on the engine. Subsciber/pianist here.

[@Julian_Kurt]

Hey im completely new to astro photographie. How much do i need to spend at least for a complete setup ?

[@DylanODonnell]

Answered briefly in the latest video for you :)

[@atafaghihimohaddess520]

Hi there ,cool stuff appreciate, like to know your Idea on asi183mm pro ? DSI and planetary

[@DylanODonnell]

Run the specs through the bintel astronomy calculator with your scope and it will tell you if it's good or not (check sampling results)

[@will2see]

Not to mention the size of the sensor on the ZWO 1600MM vs the other one...

[@shaunozs1ra92]

Hi Dylan. Thanks for your great vids, this one is great too. I’m about to purchase a QSI583WSG which uses the Kodak 8300 mono chip from a person who has looked after it and actually had very little use. He’s charging the same as the cost of a new ZWO ASI 1600 MM. I’m really torn between cameras here, I’m not asking you to decide for me but would appreciate your insight. Since the price isn’t an issue, which camera would you choose? FWIW I have the Celestron Nightscape 8300 colour CCD camera and looking to get a more sensitive camera to lift the fine dust and structure out of the nebula. Thanks Shaun

[@kevinl1608]

Not Dylan..but in the same boat have the 1600mono pro (cooled) it’s great. From my research this is what I have found. It depends on what you want to use it for, pretty pictures, or scientific work (photometry, spectroscopy, super nova hunting etc). For pretty pictures and speed the ASI hands down.But for science it’s a little different because CCD’s have more consistency based upon the technology of how it reads the values in each row of pixels. CCD also has more precise values as it is a true 16 bit camera so for resolution you’re going to get a much more detailed result with the CCD than the CMOS, again that’s pre-processing I am sure there is a way to counter that in post processing but as we were just talking about the cameras in general. CMOS has built in readers (DAC) in each pixel therefore contributing to noise or glow potentially in each cell, Otherwise known as amp glow. But there are some drawbacks to CCD that being the speed of the download is dramatically increased also the noise level is also increased therefore a longer exposure time is needed to get above the floor of signal-to-noise translated as longer exposure time. CCD pros: consistent read values per pixel sharper images deeper well depth. CCD cons: higher price slower speed increased noise level CMOS Pros: faster download speeds inexpensive technology lower noise CMOS Cons: less consistent read values, 12 bit that converted to 16 bit thus a shallower well depth Best of Luck - Kevin

[@shaunozs1ra92]

@@kevinl1608 Thanks for this reply Kevin. I am one of those people who try to tackle too many things at the same time so I am hoping to find a camera that does pretty pictures and at some stage I want to do spectroscopy. No serious science just to experiment and learn. I have sort of gone off the CCD for now simply because of the time issues, exposure and download time. It seems that an imaging session can take up to four times longer with CCD as opposed to CMOS. Also the noise is an issue for the pretty pictures as it needs a lot of fancy footwork to get rid of noise in post. I already own a Nightscape 8300 OSC camera which is a CCD, I think I am going to settle on a CMOS Mono for now. This decision has led to another fork i.e. ZWO or QHY and the QHY has also led to a fork. So it's now one of these Mono cameras ZWO 1600 vs QHY 183 vs QHY 163. Ah the decisions! Thanks

[@kevinl1608]

ShaunO ZS1RA For CMOS the ZWO 1600 mono pro with the filter wheel...and don’t look back. I would recommend reaching out to Tolga he really know his stuff ... www.tolgaastro.com .... clear sky’s...

[@waynecarton4245]

dylan my names wayne i have celestron star sense explorer 5"' can i use the zwo as1120mc on my telsscope kind regardes wayne from melbourne

[@tommyboypackham9668]

Cannot see ZWOoo without thinking of Meg Ryan now! Need a 1600MMPro in my life...and some Astrodon filters 😛👍

[@DylanODonnell]

Hehe ZW-Ohhhhh yesss YESS YESSSSSSS (I should be in marketing or something)

[@GalaxyArtMedia]

Nice review. I liked the small astrophotography clips that you made. I am curious, why you said at the end of your video that everything is meaningless, that means this review is also without any importance so maybe not the best way to end the videos ? I did took 10 min exposure also with my stock dslr, in Ha and i did had noise, but i did manage to get some nice results. I am thinking also to try a cooled camera, to be able to get better quality with long exposures. Clear sky !

[@DylanODonnell]

Yeh you assume I’m doing anything at all for meaning. I don’t :) good luck with the cooled solution - it’s the best way!

[@GalaxyArtMedia]

@@DylanODonnell Thank you. Stay safe !

[@andyweeks2216]

Dylan, were both camera test shots cooled to the same temp?

[@DylanODonnell]

Correct! Both -15 degrees C

[@ozicryptoG]

I just picked up a 1600mm-pro, new in box as the guy had never used it, for $500. Ok, I have a 6200mm-pro which is vastly better in every way, but I also have multiple scopes. So the 1600 sounded like a nice deal. Can't wait to try it out.

[@marsaspen-murray3797]

What are the differences (apart from the obvious differences in design) between the RASA and Hyperstar? How much better is the image quality with the RASA and how much easier is it to use?

[@DylanODonnell]

Answered you in latest video :)

[@KB2AT]

Dylan....Great video. Bought the 8" Rasa.....now I'm looking at cameras. Either asi183mc pro or 183mm pro. I live in very light polluted area. What would u suggest? Thanks

[@BobertTheBob15]

From what I've heard monochrome cameras have a higher resolution because they aren't bayered like color ones are. Additionally, you'd have to use filters with a monochrome camera if you wanted to get color images, which will increase your integration time by a factor of 3 or 4. However, filters will cut out most light pollution whereas a color camera will suck it in.

[@DylanODonnell]

Hi there! I recommend getting a mono camera for narrowband in the midst of serious light pollution.

[@hael8680]

Mono camera means a filter wheel which equals to a fair bit of obstruction in front of your 8inch RASA... I think a color CMOS might be better for the 8inch.

[@KB2AT]

@@DylanODonnell Thanks Dylan. Just picked up the Celestron LPF for the rasa....gonna go with mono. I prefer just Ha images. Color be nice but not for my skies

[@ACEOFSPACE2000]

I use the ASI 1600 MM cool it's a fantastic camera for the price.

[@DylanODonnell]

I agree!

[@carloscampos6999]

ASTROPHOTOGRAPHY ACE OF SPACE ASTROPHOTOGRAPHY agree!

[@sumeriansumer1622]

@@DylanODonnell , I would like to bring to your attention a video on the Rex Joswick KZbin channel I came across only minutes ago for the first time titled: Rare NASA archival footage of a flat disk-like Earth In 1931 physicist Professor Auguste Piccard went up about 52,000 feet, he saw the earth as a flat disk. Disks are flat and they are round on the edges of disk, that's what we are seeing here. Biblical Flat Earth is true, that's why Freemason puppets can't stop this God given truth !

[@newforestobservatory9322]

CMOS technology and process development is ongoing because CMOS imagers appear everywhere nowadays, CCDs are an old technology that hasn't been "pushed" as hard as CMOS technology for well over a decade. If it had been thought financially viable to continue CCD development in the same way that CMOS development has progressed, then CMOS wouldn't get a look in against the CCD (as far as astronomical imaging goes).

[@davepastern]

Dylan, what gain did you use on the 1600 (I presume unity gain, which is 139 from memory)? As far as I understand, the 1600 does best with shorter subs, 2-3 mins and lots of them. It loses its SNR advantage if you push it to longer subs like 10 mins. I'm not super technical, so I'm only going with what I've read elsewhere on IIS and CN. Also, is the 1600 the v2 or the 1600 pro?

[@tombutts919]

I've been using the 1600 for about 1.5yrs now and the gain really depends on your sky conditions and what you're shooting. For NB, unity gain works well but for LRGB in my light polluted skies I use gain 0 with offset 10. If I shot LRGB at unity gain in my skies I would be saturating my sensor very quickly.

[@DylanODonnell]

I had the gain set to 10 which is pretty low so it's interesting to note what you say about the shorter subs which again is a key point of difference between ccd and cmos and the resultant noise profile.. regardless though, it can be mitigated with calibration so it's not a deal breaker at all. Unsure of exact model since I have an unboxed unit from the vendor but the sku is "ASI1600MM-C Cooled Monochrome"

[@davepastern]

@@DylanODonnell I think that's the older (and I believe, discontinued) v2. I have a pro, but haven't used it yet (long story lol!). Are you in QLD btw?

[@DylanODonnell]

Byron Bay, technically the easternmost observatory in Australia :) I have a few pixinsight tutorial videos in the archives (one very recent) and am using Sequence Generator Pro, not to it's full potential but I love it :)

[@davepastern]

@@DylanODonnell a beautiful Byron Bay (have been there a few times, although the last time was 20 odd years ago lol). I missed the PixInsight tutorials, must check them out (I'm a complete newb). I have an EQ6 Pro that's been in storage for prolly 10 years, so will strip it down and rebuild it. I'm obviously not imaging until that's done. I have several health issues and I'm not working, so money is very tight for me :-/

[@CodeLeeCarter]

Man, you should have listed the BINTEL website within the Description.

[@DylanODonnell]

Good point :)

[@denispol79]

Hehe, thanks. Regarding last comment - sounds like busido rule - always be ready and plan things as if it's your last day :)

[@DylanODonnell]

Precisely ! 😆

[@anandarochisha]

I liked the Vincent Price laugh.

[@marstrooper2045]

I want that camera for my birthday.

[@DylanODonnell]

Me too 😆

[@marstrooper2045]

@@DylanODonnell Oh,yes it would be a nice gift. I love to get into ccd deep sky astrophotography.

[@newbee1016]

Hi Dylan, just stumbled across your video, very interesting results. I have a interesting thing happening with my new ZWO ASI224 MC cooled camera, I have just put Astro Photography Tool on my comp' I have been setting up some dummy imaging plans to check to see how things work etc, I connected the ZWO up to the program and took some dark test frames, and also some light frames, with cap off, what I got back was unexplainable, it was pics of a nebulae looked like the Orion but very blown out, the cover cap was on the camera and I was inside. I have contacted ZWO a couple of days ago but have not got a reply yet. Cheers Robert Aust'

[@superIuminaI]

Meanwhile, I'm still pottering about with a QHY5 colour, trying to get some beginner planetary images going 🤓

[@DylanODonnell]

Oh great! Not really planet season anymore unfortunately .. but good to get ready for those oppositions!

[@ikbenvoetbal]

Im still putting my phone go my dob. But hey I got red and blue on orion in my bortle 9 zone!

[@FreedomToRoam86]

great video comparison overall, but voice volume was a little low

[@DylanODonnell]

I'm getting better with audio over time!

[@FreedomToRoam86]

@@DylanODonnell yep. I just wanted to give constructive feedback, not criticize! Part of being one of those hot Captain Picard looking guys that all the girls are supposed to swoon over, is worsening hearing, which misses low volumes, and finds louder volumes painful. (The other part is still waiting for hordes of swooning ladies to gently rebuff!)

[@Hilmi12]

The desiccant has nothing to do with exposure length. The desiccant is to prevent condensation from moisture that has leaked into the sensor chamber. If you start cooling the sensor, you will get condensation regardless of exposure length. The desiccant is already in there. Also, doesnt matter what the differential is. If you cool the sensor bellow condensation point, you will get condensation which is why we try and absorb the moisture out of there regardless.

[@DylanODonnell]

Thanks for the clarification!

[@tombutts919]

I really do enjoy my 1600MMC, although the lack of AR coating on the sensor really drives me up the wall...

[@DylanODonnell]

I wonder if this can be fixed DIY?

[@DylanODonnell]

I wonder if this can be fixed DIY?

[@tombutts919]

I've thought about it, but the more I read, the more I realized it's probably not possible as a home DIY and not screw up the camera. Considering a smaller chip CCD like a QSI690 at this point, but not for another year or so.. Keep up the great content man!

[@DylanODonnell]

Thanks Thomas!

[@otrondal]

Great vid, remember we are all going to die, after that everything is meaningful or less.

[@xe1zlgg]

Hi .. Dylan. I have been toying the idea to get a Mono KODAK 8300 Sensor with microlenses... In pure performance way Do you think this kodak sensor still worth the money against another same megapixel count MONO CMOS ( No the ZWO 1600 ) ? This little grainy noise on the Zwo 1600 should block some very fine detail on the final image even when removed with the Dark calibration frame. Indeed I see more detail in you 8300 10 min sub in this video. Also Binning in CCD sensor get more SNR than a CMOS. Thanks for share. And hope your country would never get on fire again. Luis Gtz

[@billlong7146]

Good video here. I dont think its accurate to claim that the results are "just as good" however. At 6:35-ish in this video you show one of the biggest problems with the 1600 camera and that is the dreaded microlens diffraction pattern. Your RASA telescope will only make matters worse for this condition. You should revisit this topic as you have more experience and highlight this problem to properly inform people.

[@DylanODonnell]

Yes it’s a really good point a few of you have brought to my attention so will revisit in future videos.

[@billlong7146]

@@DylanODonnell Excellent, looking forward to hearing more about it.

[@andrewwhitehead4619]

7:29 looks like you left your Bahtinov mask on??

[@masterwoo4359]

thats diffraction spikes from the RASA

[@jamestickle3070]

As Socrates once said, ‘like sand through the hour glass, so are the days of our lives.’

[@Mandragara]

QE of 60% - is it worth it over the 84% QE models? I don't know much haha

[@senanlane6882]

Mm cool

[@Nottsboy24]

#100th like ☺ great info :)

[@DylanODonnell]

The century! Thanks Notts!

[@jefflucas_life]

Fun video, we're going to die. thumbs up!

[@DylanODonnell]

Hehe thanks for the nihilistic thumbs up 😆

[@logieberra]

Red = Atik ! :)

[@DylanODonnell]

Hehe red at night, zwo’s delight.

[@logieberra]

Dylan O'Donnell - are you able to show your filter wheel / filter setup with this cam. Can we get away with 1.25” Astronomic mounted etc. Also, are the ZWO filters wheels good or junk... Cheers

[@andrewwareing7291]

Apparently discontinued?

[@DylanODonnell]

Yeh the 2600 or qhy268 is the new sensor on the block !

[@andrewwareing7291]

@@DylanODonnell And over $2,000 CAD! Ouch!

[@MEDDERX314]

CCD forever and always, or at least until sCMOS comes out.

[@DylanODonnell]

Yep!

[@bronxriverastronomy5046]

Dylan -- thanks for another great video with a very helpful update on CMOS vs CCD cameras. I think there's more to the CMOS story including the potential to do "Live Stacking" with SharpCap which allows an imager to get a similar value from 10 sixty second exposures as one 600 second exposure. I interviewed Robin Glover, the developer of SharpCap for our astro clubs here in New York and posted the video here kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJS1f6GJasiin5o . Robin explains why this works and we discuss the benefits of working with very short exposures. I hope this is helpful to some of your viewers and I'll be interested to see what sort of results you can get with short exposures (hint -- no more tracking error...). Best regards and thanks again for your educational and entertaining videos!

[@DylanODonnell]

Great interview and info .. thank you!

[@Libanass]

It does not seem you did it so I care to insist, you CANNOT subtract darks with an ASI1600. The only way of removing noise with that camera is dithering, unfortunately.

[@DylanODonnell]

Mentioned this in latest video .. thx for the feedback!

[@Wub892]

Holy smokes, is that a blackberry I see 9:39 with a qwerty keyboard

[@user-hc1hl3vw7c]

Dylan, your tests and compare are always useful to me to understand which camera to choose and the best way to use it. On the same topic, you can also have a look to Christian Buil page: www.astrosurf.com/buil/index.html . He is the father of the famous sofware Isis.

[@DylanODonnell]

Thanks! Looks like a wealth of information there!

[@dettie1948]

Does anyone else wonder if Dylan has a painting in the loft that looks really crap?...

[@zeitgeist909]

dude you need to normalise your audio volume. The difference between the music cuts and the speech is huge.

[@DylanODonnell]

I know! But I bet you have a good sound system or headphones :)

[@gmiller123456]

And several (angry) people awake who were asleep a few minutes ago.

[@stebz586]

Me, I like that contrast. I think it sounds very dramatic.

[@williamgorham7339]

Ooooo

[@-Jantje]

You accidentally do not have a ZWO ASI294MC Pro in your possession.. (EAA astronomy) The title for this youtube would then be "Is the ZWO ASI 294MC PRO camera as good as they say it"

[@DylanODonnell]

Hah I’m willing to try ;)

[@dedskin1]

micro 4/3 sensor for 1500$. Man i will make you Cooled Monochrome Full Frame for half that price

[@serveurperso]

I'm interested !

[@dedskin1]

@@serveurperso OK you need a full frame , and the technique is invasive on the sensor , its best to take something older . Because it can die in the process , there are cheap replacement sensors for older models that is why this is done with older models . When achieved cooling is added with peltier element