Is this "Gay Content for Straight People"?

[@sortingoutmyclothes8131]

The actor should NOT be made to disclose their sexuality, nor be harassed for being a straight actor playing a gay role, but I do think it would've been nice for the casting people to look for actors who are already out as queer, because their jobs are harder because they're out, and this would be a great opportunity for them.

[@rafaela00002]

this

[@anna2731]

True! But this take is too nuanced for the internet. People would just harassing actors and producers for not casting an openly gay actor.

[@hikawagetsbitches]

yup!

[@Pendragon-zw6jl]

In all fairness, the actor is in support of more openly gay actors going for the parts but on the other hand, he also needs to work and as much as he’s got a few good roles, he’s still not that very well known. So, I think it’s a take what you can get situation maybe.

[@jd9818]

My exact thoughts

[@lillitt5899]

I found a little irony in an openly gay man playing a homophobic king. Stephen Fry is amazing in his roles.

[@carschmn]

I chuckled at that too.

[@666tiger7]

Stephen Fry is still friends with JK Rowling

[@carschmn]

@@666tiger7 I’ve reached the point where i accept most people are transphobic until they interact regularly with trans people because people fear what they don’t understand

[@JamesCarter1998]

@@666tiger7To be fair, he has stated that he disagrees with Rowling, and has emphasised that he has trans friends who were very upset about her views; still not great I know, and imo Fry should probably cut ties with Rowling - I just don’t think it’s necessarily fair to imply that because he is still somewhat friendly with Rowling then that means he automatically agrees with or endorses her views

[@WishGender]

@@JamesCarter1998yeah I have a group of people I play games with on Xbox and one of the main ones is lowkey transphobic (basically privately believes that I am not a real man and another member is not a real woman) but I enjoy the dynamic of the group so much that I’m not willing to cut ties with everyone just because of one bad apple

[@kbarteaux9807]

I love when my imperialists are diverse 😂

[@wrenophelia]

Yassss they're just like us

[@Lana-kj1xn]

@@wrenopheliathey’re so relatable

[@DidixGil]

Me watching 1899 and seeing the Spanish guy and the Portuguese guy doing gay shit: Yayyyy go off my colonizer sweeties 😍😂

[@zanite8650]

Diversity win! The man sneering down his nose at you has complicated feelings about his rival.

[@thisautisticmickee8933]

YES. THIS. this is why i refuse to watch it

[@HasnaaAlaa]

The movie starring two conventionally attractive guys is not a gay Hollywood thing, it's just a Hollywood thing in general, straight rom coms almost always have a conventionally attractive main couple too, it's very hard for 1 movie to check all of someone's boxes, at least this time it's not 2 white guys which is a progress

[@IfLifeIsALeaf]

Agreed, but I do get tired of so many minority actors, or politicians, being "white-adjacent". Without the surname, i couldn't tell.

[@vernonfrance2974]

@HasnaaAlaa Sorry to disappoint you but Hispanics can be just as European as so called "whites." Taylor Perez has Mexican, Middle Eastern, and Mediterranean ancestry.[4] Additionally, he is partially Croatian through his mother and partially Hungarian through his father.[5] Middle Easterners are considered to be Caucasian and Mexicans may or may not have some indigenous Native American ancestry. Wikipedia So, Alex is "white." Why is it a "progress" to have a handsome brunette and a handsome blonde? Two handsome men of whatever complexions is all that is needed. Very handsome is most desirable but sometimes they aren't able or willing to provide truly handsome actors.

[@vernonfrance2974]

​@@IfLifeIsALeaf It would be truly clever to have the Prince of Britain be Chinese and the President's son, Australian aborigine.

[@Ame-zv5lj]

​@@vernonfrance2974yeahhh no. That would be the Snow White fiasco 2.0

[@HasnaaAlaa]

@@vernonfrance2974 I am not sure what you mean by truly handsome actors I think they are both very handsome and I also don't know what you mean by saying middle easterns are Caucasian?? I am middle eastern and we have all kinds of colors here, white, brown,black and everything in between, same for Mexicans, Mexicans are not all whites, they also come in all colors, usually Latinx people are not "classified" as whites by Americans unless they are very white passing, when I first saw Tyler I definitely didn't think he's white but if you wanna call him white and ignore his Hispanic side go ahead I guess

[@josephmanning3179]

people were consered about the accuracy of a non-gay writer writing about queer relationships?? babes the premise is about a president son and prince of england falling in love, realism was never on the table...😭

[@alien-vu7yl]

They kept calling Henry the Prince of Wales in the book. That’s a title that only the person next in line for the throne gets, Charles was PoW for like two centuries. Of all the things that are so incredibly easy to check, this one pissed me off constantly. It required a looot of suspension of disbelief on my part to buy the premise, so much that I couldn’t enjoy the story that much.

[@maimee1]

Hnmm. It's more like "here's someone who's really into trans stuff somehow, as a cis person, and now they're writing a book or a show about trans people". Doesn't matter if it's some idk space odyssey story historical drama or period piece. Like, if you're trans, and they get something a big wrong, I would guess that it would feel a bit ick? Like mixed. Well, idk, but should be sinilar here. It's a criticism not exactly about this specific piece, but of the piece and the genre it belongs to, if that makes sense.

[@dragonwings36]

@@maimee1 I can get that. That being said, the director for the movie is gay. Plus, in some cases, not this one specifically, sometimes people are still in the closet.

[@_Just_Another_Guy]

And the President of the USA in this fictional world being a WOMAN. 😭😭😭 This show might as well have aliens, witches, and bigfoot in it.

[@josephmanning3179]

@@maimee1 but like... in this case its the opposite. its a non-bianary person writing about cis stuff. And like im sorry but NB shit is so limited in marketability i can't blame them for doing it

[@mgabss]

Alex thinking he is middle class is beyond lol

[@KatBlaque]

That’s the part that insulted me the most lol. That and him talking down to Henry cuz he’s white lol

[@moustik31]

​@@KatBlaqueEsp. when 2 of Alex parents are played by w. actors.

[@victai163]

​@@moustik31the actor that plays alex's dad is mixed german and mexican

[@moustik31]

@@victai163 So he is mixed w. and w.?

[@mis3ricordia]

​@@victai163Mexican is not a race, it's a nationality like Canadian. It's very possible that Mexican parent is of mostly European descent. Race mixing was not as progressive as we've made it out to seem for a long time and also had very racist roots so yeahh

[@kalebh3419]

As a gay man in a relationship with a bi man, I REALLY appreciate the emphasis of respecting bisexual identities and to not erase them based on the gender of who they're currently dating.

[@MDonuT-of7px]

Seconding this as a bi man in a relationship with a gay man.

[@lucanusafrost]

Thirding this as a pansexual man in a relationship with a bisexual man :DD

[@johannesschutz780]

I watched this movie today with my boyfriend and he's from a mostly muslim country where he can't be out even though is family is mostly not religious at all. He doesn't feel comfortable talking about his sexuality at all even if some parts of his family might even be accepting if he tried to have this conversation. Anyways, he really connected with the prince over the feeling of being trapped in this role and not having the choice to be himself in the first place, and I really enjoyed it for that alone. The most unrealistic thing I found was that the movie portrayed American politics to be something even remotely desirable to participate in.

[@donny1960]

Some people revel in American Politics. You don't. But it does not have to be a Universal truth...... Just yours.

[@automatedautonomy]

@@donny1960 Noone's having fun.

[@ettaetta439]

​@@donny1960bro it's a hellhole lmao idk what kind of drug you're on but I need some

[@tarhumdonorstoriesforthebored]

@@donny1960 as a debater, I can confirm I am not having fun.

[@donny1960]

@@tarhumdonorstoriesforthebored Thanks for the info. I am having a lot. Even more now.

[@emmahansen7005]

"Do actors need to be gay/bisexual to portray gay/bisexual characters?" No. Especially because sometimes, the actor is closeted themselves. Kit Connor from Heartstopper is the very easy example for this, and nobody deserves what happened to him.

[@andiman44]

Yeah, like do we really wanna ask everyone auditioning their sexuality? It would just be inappropriate

[@eypu999]

I agree too

[@JoseSerrato0420]

The only time I feel it's necessary is if the actor starts talking like they know the LGBTQ lived experience and say toxic stuff. Like, are you homophobic or are you just a basic cishet twink?? Cuz those can be indistinguishable some times...

[@anthill1510]

It´s called "acting", so no. Also then you would have to ask the question if queer actors can play straight characters. Of course they can, again: acting.

[@eypu999]

@@anthill1510 the reason why ppl believe cishet actors shouldn’t play is cuz of the discrimination(not my opinion just a simple fact). That doesn’t exist for cishet actors so no one would ask that question.

[@snehapradhan5591]

Being bi and having very less movies where being bi is so openly discussed and the fact that they also get a wonderfully happy ending is one of the reasons why I love it so much. I truly don't think it's necessary for a gay man to write this because as long as the intention is right, it doesn't matter to me. But also I myself am not a gay man so if they have criticism about this that's completely valid.

[@we.genuinely.think2882]

I think it's interesting how much our opinions differ on the showing bisexuality part is (I still enjoyed the movie though). I'm a bi woman and I actually was really sad that they left so much of the stuff of Alex figuring out his bisexuality out that was in the book. I mean yes maybe the film wasn't for me because I'm a woman but the book really helped me come to terms with my own sexuality because his thoughts were so well written. But I also get the intention of not having as much of that in there and focusing more on showing a relationship between a gay and a bisexual man.

[@Meleninmoneal03]

As someone that read the book, there is actually a whole chapter about Alex coming to terms with his bisexuality. Unfortunately this was cut from the movie probably due to screen time

[@raven_moonshine39]

@@we.genuinely.think2882 Both of these reactions are interesting to me. As much as I loved how open and straightforward they both were with Alex's bisexuality (anyone who STILL insists on calling him gay after reading/watching either one gets some massive side eye from me), I still wasn't 100% satisfied with the bisexual rep in either the book or the movie. With the book, I'm just tired of bisexuals in fiction having to discover themselves within the story. As someone who didn't have the whole questioning phase and just had to find the right word for what I am, I just want one book where the bisexual main character doesn't discover themselves the instant they fall for someone of the same sex. With the movie, I was glad Alex already mostly knew about his sexuality, but I was really uncomfy with the decision to make him "low key interested in guys" and still have a whole processing moment once he finds a guy he has strong feelings for. It's just too close to the whole "you're only bi until you realize you're actually gay" bullshit. The story would have read the exact same way if the realization and freakout wasn't over the specific labeling of his sexuality, but was rather simply realizing that he has actual feelings for this person he's always had negative feelings towards. But in both versions, because he only embraces his bisexuality when he falls for a man, it gives off big "you're only valid as a bisexual if the person you settle down with is the same gender" energy and I'm not entirely comfortable with that. It's who you're attracted to that makes you bisexual, not who you decide to spend your life with.

[@kodabuck225]

@@raven_moonshine39 yeah, i feel ya there, I didn't have a lightbulb moment of bisexuality either, like as a woman the queer vibes gotta be thick as fudge for my brain to let me like other women like that, and that was confusing for a while, but I was kissing them at sleep overs way before anybody asked me what my sexuality label was, and so i was like "well i know i ain't straight" lol, i think i was like 14 or something when that question came up. So yeah can't really relate to the bisexual lightbulb moment in media.

[@annabeinglazy5580]

Honestly the "its for straight women because both actors are conventionally hot" criticism is interesting to me, because it seems to ignore completely that that is how.... American mainstream tv works. As a european, especially one who watches a lot of UK tv, this movie is not out of the ordinary in any way. American mainstream shows in general have the issue of casting very Mainstream attractive actors for their shows, to the point that every character looks like a model. In my view, its not that this movie is "made for straight women", its more the fact that its a major corporation making it. On the other hand, a lot of queer movies in the past were done by smaller companies, so they could cast less.... Mainstream looking actors. If you get a cw type movie, im not surprised that the main characters look like they could show up in teen wolf

[@luiysia]

yeah this was bizarre to me, people are holding this movie to a standard that they would never apply to a similar hetero rom com

[@vernonfrance2974]

@annabeinglazy5580 What does "cw type movie" mean? I think in a movie about a Prince and a President's son they needed to use extra handsome actors so they didn't look like ordinary sorts. Of course, I know that the kids of the elite are not always that handsome as is shown by the current royalty and first family.

[@remytherat2929]

Wait british people aren’t casting their most attractive people in their shows?? I just though they were ugly, huh let me go reevaluate my views..

[@arshiyaamreen5808]

Exactly! I don't understand people who say it's for white women because the men are hot. Okay? And that's a requirement for all major movies in the Hollywood industry? Who is NOT objectively good looking?

[@Soundwave._]

@@remytherat2929 No lmao and same for other non-American countries, especially in Europe they try to cast actors who look like average people if they're supposed to be playing average people, and models if they're supposed to be models, etc. I prefer it tbh it's a bit freaky how American media makes everyone look like they're made of plastic

[@ethannu__]

I just want to see a gay romance between two guys that aren’t the most insanely hot conventionally attractive people in the world; the body standards for gay men are already ridiculously unattainable, and it would be so much nicer in helping fight those standards by representing and showing that gay love doesn’t have to just be between hot guys

[@no.6377]

I feel like heartstopper stars normal looking guys. I mean, they're attractive, but not "insanely hot"😀

[@satunbreeze]

I know David Tennant is considering insanely attractive to a lot of people, but Good Omens is really nice to see not only for the queer romance, but both the actors are middle aged and LOOK middle aged too. It's incredibly refreshing.

[@tereziamarkova2822]

Then you must see Our Flag Means Death. Besides excellent representation of queer men that are mostly normal looking (with the exception of Taika Waititi as Blackbeard), it's also extremely hillarious, heartwarming, and has a lot to say not just on the topic of queerness, but also racism, trauma, relationships and so on. And season 2 is coming out (heh) pretty soon, so you won't have to wait long for the resolution of a tragic cliffhanger season 1 left us on.

[@wren000]

good ome n s

[@n.p.4954]

I'd also recommend God's own country

[@kingsrowcollectibles6363]

I’m always puzzled why when it’s a gay movie we have all these standards for rom coms all of a sudden. There are hundreds of fantastical and straight up silly straight rom coms… I loved this movie and it gave me the fantasy I needed. It was corny, but what rom com isn’t?

[@StrawberryBlonde21]

Agreed 100%

[@clauu9370]

EXACTLY!!!

[@midwestskiesinnyc]

this 100%! gay media is always being scrutinized no matter what, whether it's serious and tragic or fun and campy. we can have a variety of media just like the straights

[@the-postal-dude]

i think, for this instance, it's because bad or otherwise lacking straight romcoms are a dime a dozen. also, the gay community has collective trauma from being forced to sanitize themselves for straight people

[@LennyLefebvre-qb6qx]

You haven’t observed the straight rom com push back? They are scrutinized but more likely to be ignored because… boring.

[@rayyathebald5448]

“Emotional woo-hoo moment” tell me you play sims without telling me you play sims 🤣

[@lobaetoile8440]

Personally, I thought the actors had good chemistry, but it was the dialogue what was lacking. I was particularly impressed by Nicholas acting, his facial expressions were really emotive, his anxiousness and infatuation were convincing (to me, at least). I agree this a pretty standard rom-com whose appeal is escapism, cuteness, hotness and happy endings... There's nothing special about the story, except from the protagonists being a gay man and a bisexual man. And that's exactly what is refreshing about the movie: that it's a simple classic romantic comedy with LGBTQ leads. It's not torture porn, it's not abstract cinema art, it's not super preachy sociopolitical propaganda, it's uncomplicated. It's just "for fun", light-hearted representation. Logically, it's going to appeal to people who like this genre and its "typical" tropes/clichés. I think the reason why it seemed evident that the novel was not written by a gay man, why it is a story whose main demographic is probably women, it's simply because the genre of "romantic comedy" itself is mostly associated with and consumed (in mass) by women. (Just like action movies tend to be associated with men). As for the question of whether a gay character should be portrayed exclusively by a gay person... I think any character (of any orientation) could be portrayed by any person (regardless of their gender or sexual orientation), as long as you are able to portray the role convincingly, respectfully, empathetically, and do a good job. Honestly, I think actors shouldn't have to disclose or mention their sexual orientations at all, when they are auditioning (for any role). Obviously, I would assume that someone who can deeply relate to a certain character is more likely to do a better audition, if given the fair opportunity. As for the criticism about "yaoi" being a genre that fetichizes gay men... I think there's some true to that. I definitelly have felt while watching or reading or consuming romantic art or media written primarily by women (both original work and fan-made/in fandom), that media written by women frequently depicts homosexual relationships unrealistically and occassionally in an objecyifying or even offensive manner (and it does often bother me). But that's not always the case, there have been good stories and good representation written by people who weren't the demographic represented, but by someone who knew intimately people from such demographic. However, a story being fetishistic or dellusional or nonesensical can happen in any romance oriented work, in general. For example, I've read a lot of romance written by straight women that romanticises or normalizes mysoginistic or abusive relationship dynamics. I've also (sadly) read queer stories written by queer people who I found to be somehow offensive. Also, a lot of romance and erotica is purposefully and solely written for self-ildungence. Ultimately, there is decently, badly, fantasctically and horribly written work in any genre.

[@raven_moonshine39]

"I think any character (of any orientation) could be portrayed by any person (regardless of their gender or sexual orientation)" While you're right in theory, the problem arises when you bring in the reason why most actors are secretive about their sexual orientation if they're anything other than straight--because while straight actors get cast in both straight and queer roles, openly queer actors ONLY get cast in queer roles. So when you have a queer role and you cast a straight actor instead, you're taking away one of the few opportunities a queer actor gets just to give it to a straight actor who could easily get another role somewhere else. If this weren't the case, then you'd be right. Anyone should be able to play any role. But when you have a role come up that is one actor's only shot at a job for the next year and you pass over him to give it to an actor who can get whatever role he wants, that's the problem.

[@shawnhelton7653]

​@raven_moonshine39 I don't know if this is true. But I really dislike this narrative. Even if this problem exists, I just don't see how prioritizing based on identity in acting solves anything. At best its a bandaid that would make the problem look solved, while doing very little to adress it. At worst it just ends up being harmful hypocracy. Thats how I feel about it anyway.

[@Yeaster]

Most gay stories tend to be so sad and dark. I appreciate gay stories that actually have happy endings. The book was a cute light read and I was perfectly fine with that

[@EmoGermaphobe]

The book left me destroyed 😭

[@emilykawaii123]

While I think any piece of media can and should be examined critically, as a queer person I am frustrated by the intense scrutiny that we put queer media under that we do not apply to straight media. There is no perfect representation, and while we should always strive for the best, this scrutiny (and the internet mobs that sometimes form as a result) can become a barrier to creators making queer content. We have also seen this devolve into harassment against queer authors/actors by our own community and serious breaches of privacy.

[@emilyrln]

Yes! If we want more representation, we have to accept that some of it will be mediocre, and none of it will be perfect. Harassing creators who are queer (or of other marginalized groups) just guarantees that the only creators left will be straight, cis, white, neurotypical, able-bodied, and otherwise privileged. That's the exact opposite of what we should be working towards.

[@lucasblaise11]

So many lesser KZbinrs just complain about this movie a Heartstopper and such for being: unrealistic, sanitized, and full of tropes. ITS FICTION PEOPLE! Why not make a vid about how great Moonlight is and why we should have more? Instead of criticising the happy gay movies.

[@oilalalabla9211]

Yeah. Seeing the comments pointing out every little thing they "didnt represent" is so dissapointing. You cant fit every single queer experience in a single movie and thats ok. Like, never ever Ive seen people say straight movies are fetishising straight people bcs It is a little fanficky or say theyre anti sex(like people do with heartstopper) bcs its more inocent... like, just bcs its an lgbt movie It has to fit every struggle possible but every other film is allowed not to.

[@OceanExplorer25]

You’re right it’s just with every minority group, we try to appear our best to the majority so that we can convince the bigots that we’re similar to them. It’s not justified but it’s semi rational

[@mattywren]

I totally agree. I don’t think we’re at the point yet where straight authors should necessarily produce queer content, because of the rampant issues of fetishization and misrepresentation. I think it’s better to uplift and courage queer and trans voices, which straight writers tend to entirely overshadow. We need to encourage queer people and publishers to publish queer works. However. Casey is queer and non binary- they have every right to write this book. I read it, as a gay transmasc person, and I loved it- it was wholesome, not fetishizing. And I see a lot of people critiquing it because it doesn’t talk ENOUGH about queer issues, but like… it’s a romance. For social commentary pick up queer literary works. I’m actually glad homophobia was touched upon but not the entire focus of the book, because that tends to be all we get. I was GLAD that it was first a romance more than anything else and just…. Showed two guys falling in love

[@splashofmilk]

i think there’s something to be said for how nonbinary people are still viewed through the lens of their agab. casey is not a woman, but because they are visibly afab, they are perceived as being in closer proximity to womanhood and that’s where a lot of the criticisms/accusations of fetishization come from, whereas i don’t think the same things would be said about a different nonbinary author writing the same story if they were amab.

[@HS-hk8mr]

Exactly! It's been kind of hard to watch as a nonbinary person myself

[@helena4440]

But Casey being more visbly afab and presenting closer to female than male would probably lead them to be seen as female by most folks they come across, thus making their experience closer to that of a woman than that of a man regardless of sexuality. So how is the criticism not valid? As long as people don't misgender Casey or disregard their gender identity of course

[@cam4636]

@@helena4440 "They visually present as female so therefore their lived experience is like a woman's, but we're NOOOT misgendering them" ok Karen

[@beadymore]

As an AMAB enby person that presents mostly masc, there is certainly a difference in lived experience between their experience and my own that, honestly, is still going to make me roll my eyes at this story. They're well within their rights to write it, but, I'm well within my rights to feel skeptical as to whether it is a good representation of people like me or the binary gay men that people like me are regularly grouped with. Edit: also to add, just because you like or dislike something isn't the same thing as it being good representation of the people it is trying to depict or not. You can enjoy this book and film but maybe consider if you aren't part of the demographic of people that the protagonists are representing (or somewhat socially adjacent to them) it's not really necessarily your place to say whether or not it's good representation. Personally one of my favorite video games is Life is Strange, but I don't feel the need to assert it as being "good sapphic representation" because I recognize I don't really possess the personal experience or perspective to make that kind of qualitative judgement. Or I can tell you that the movie Fire Island is great representation for queer men, while leaving judgements about its representation of people of color and Black people to people who have actually lived in that experience, and judgements about its depiction of the intersection of those identities to people who actually exist within those intersectionalities.

[@nicole-ls4jb]

It felt kind of weird to me that Kat explicitly stated that the author was AFAB. Twice.

[@nunyabizness3101]

Shoutout to Love and Leashes for being the only hetero movie you've reviewed so far where I'm rooting for the main romance 100%. I know it didn't get brought up with the others in this video but I love it and your review of it so yeah. Love me some gay shit as well but I had to shout out that movie

[@lucamara6424]

I know rightt

[@lucamara6424]

I love that movie😊

[@raymond1129]

so many parts of the plot you described seemed like something that would be written on old tumblr with the ending “and then everyone started clapping” also as a gay person from texas who views my move out essentially as escaping, it was so jarring to hear the phrase “vacation house in austin, texas” especially in the context of queer media lol

[@moustik31]

Right? Red White and Royal Blue is so removed from reality, it felt a little bit jarring at times.

[@polygollie]

this is exactly how I feel as well, I’m glad Kat is hopeful and an optimist about the state of the world but the concept of this film politically feels like some kind of fantasy film to me. Maybe it has more context in the book, idk

[@WishGender]

@@polygollieI mean it’s kind of an alternate universe where instead of Trump being elected, it was Alex’s mom (basically as a Hillary Clinton stand in). I mean it’s the son of the President falling in love with a British prince-should we be expecting realism? I read the book and basically just enjoyed the escapism it gave me. I got to imagine a world where things are a bit less homophobic

[@Flatcetera]

To be fair, I read an actual book in high school that had the same vibes, but the love interest was a random high school girl getting together with the president’s son. We’re just finally at a time where cheesy ya books containing lgbtq+ relationships are allowed to hit the mainstream(and be just as corny as their straight counterparts).

[@annahks]

I mean,, the author was a tumblr user. like, writing-the-social-network-fanfic-and-former-hamilton-fan kind of tumblr user. so it’s not surprising that the plot feels like that

[@NaroLucian]

Oh, as for "Can people who aren't men who love men write stories about men who love men"; yes, it just can't be the only or main way those stories are told. Most of the popular stories about gay men are written by non-gay men. That becomes a problem when the actual gay men can't write about their own stories in a mainstream way. If there was a healthy mix of gays men and non-gay men writing stories about this, there wouldn't be much of an issue. It's also important to mention that it's far more common to have stories involving lesbian leads characters for various reasons and many if those stories are written by gay women.

[@moustik31]

Good point! The issue is the same with other cases of appropriation: who gets the most visibility/who benefits the most financially.

[@anna2731]

There is a saying:" Be kind to induviduals and harsh to systems." The problem you described is an industry problem. A systemic problem. But people take out their frustrations on individual authors and creators. Probably becasue changing systems is hard, but harassing authors is easy. It has gotten to the point were many people, myself included, have gotten very disillusioned and cynical.

[@NaroLucian]

@@anna2731 Yeah I would agree that it is an industry problem. Attacking the few authors that even write these stories would just make things worse. I would target the people that green light or shut down movie projects. There are indeed well written stories about gay men written by gay men, but those stories never get the green light for a movie adaptation.

[@mustanggox]

exactly

[@SB-my8fi]

Most gay male romance novels are written by women and there are far more novels about gay men than lesbians. However, there is definitely a difference when a gay romance novel is written by a gay man. The first one that comes to mind is Tal Bauer. Highly recommend him; his work is really good.

[@obara7366]

The fact that Henry is played by the same guy from the Purple Hearts movie is hilarious to me

[@andiman44]

His range! 😮

[@NationalHooeyLeague]

That actor phase played several queet characters. I actually know him from Handsome Devil, a very charming UK high school comedy drama where he's a gay high schooler.

[@3starsburningbright]

And the prince from that stupid Camila Cabello cinderella movie 😭

[@sapphic_snail]

he was also in the movie “bottoms” (about two lesbians starting a fight club to get girls) (he was hilarious)

[@alexlemaire8513]

dude has the weirdest roles. at least he won't be type-cast I guess😂

[@NotSoCivilEngineer]

Kat: Do y’all like gay shit? Me: *Hits the like button*

[@dancer1038]

As a gay guy, I'm so fucking tired of how we're portrayed. We're either babies who aren't allowed to have sex, or we're oversexualized. We're never allowed to genuinely have loving, passionate relationships where both men aren't stereotypes. And I'm so sick of straight women oversexualizing us CONSTANTLY. This isn't a criticism of you to be clear. It's more society as a whole.

[@angriboi]

I mean, it's not like gay guys aren't constantly oversexualizing themselves...

[@kodabuck225]

i feel ya man, total mood

[@SAOS451316]

Non-Queer people writing and acting Queer stories isn't a problem at all. The problem is it's all we seem to see. Edit: This author is Queer of course, but the criticism involving their AGAB is just transphobic. Nonbinary isn't a secret third gender and we don't know how much they relate to MLM.

[@jp9707]

Anthony Horowitz (the author of the Alex Rider books) was once called out for the fact that almost every character he writes is white (except for villains...). He then claimed that he'd been told he should only write white characters because he doesn't have the lived experience of a person of colour. It made me wonder: what's more racist, only writing white characters, or trying to write an authentic and nuanced character who is a person of colour, and addressing the experiences of racism that are going to form a part of their everyday lives (so it might be weird if you miss that stuff out), if you yourself are white and haven't had those experiences? I suppose the same question goes for cishets writing about Queer experiences. In Anthony Horowitz' case I think it was just an excuse he was using (he once said that Idris Elba would be "too street" to play James Bond, which is code for "too Black".) But the incident raised an interesting question all the same.

[@HuntingViolets]

@@jp9707 I have seen a lot of people in online writing groups tell people they shouldn't write characters of color as leads if they are not a people of color. There is an online class called "Writing the Other" that helps with writing across race, color, gender identity, and sexuality, though, and getting readers for feedback, helps.

[@gorimbaud]

@@jp9707 that's extremely funny to say when the streetest role i've ever seen elba play is stringer bell, who was explicitly all about unstreeting the street. horowitz was 100% making a racist dogwhistle.

[@tamarbeker1701]

THIS EDIT ☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️

[@SAOS451316]

@ville__ Well then I choose to be even gayer. :)

[@raveneskridge3143]

i'm a gay trans dude. when you were running through the plot i literally thought "this is really fanficy". there are plenty of things to criticize about that but i don't think there's anything wrong with the story. the characters are sweet and i love more big name companies getting behind telling stories about gay men. especially being willing to show so many physical and sexual scenes. the highest praise is also the harshest criticism: it's fine. it's bland, but it's fine. on representation, i don't think anyone needs to be out to act. in het relationships on screen we're not obsessed with if the actors really wanted to bang. the characters did and that's all that's relevant to the story. and we've seen so many actor's lives ruined for being gay or queer. i just started getting into Power Rangers and what happened to David Yost was disgusting and it wouldn't have happened if he hadn't been outed. it's up to each actor themselves if they want to come out publicly.

[@sambeawesome]

I super love the fact that the director was very strict about having everyone refer to the character Alex as bi. I love gay and lesbian stories, but ace or bi rep is lagging. And as a queer person in a straight-passing relationship, it was nice to see. :)

[@StrawberryBlonde21]

Nonetheless, you still see people who watched the movie say that the story is about two gay men, which is so annoying.

[@heatherofhyrule9050]

Yesss, when Piper was bi in OITNB but after she gets with Alex everyone calls her a lesbian

[@kill4551]

Kat and KennieJD both talking about this film, what a fuckin treat

[@Crucis119]

Fellow fan crossoverrrrrr

[@VectoRaptor]

This specific story I really needed to like... ask myself how much I really wanted to critique it because we (queer people) really don't get as much media that's just dumb, cheesy, and ends on a happy note. I think I needed to shift my brain around to enjoy it for THAT aspect versus being invested in the politics behind it cause whew. I was very pulled out of the fantasy of the movie because the politics behind it all were so distracting and felt half-baked. I was told the book was better so I tried it. The book has some more depth to it that I personally enjoyed for the romance aspect. It was fun to get into the mess and drama with the two leads wrestling with their feelings. The writing felt like a fanfic but it made it accessible--it was quippy and read like it came from ao3 but it was endearing for it. It just felt like someone was having fun and I just went with it. I think the last chapter in the book was touching! But yeah like if you think about RW&RB too much it's very easy to dislike it (and for good reason). It's funny to up the stakes by having the characters be high in politics but it really didn't need that level of drama. I'm not a writer so I can't be a big prose critique so as a reader I had fun with it and now have something to be silly about with my queer coworkers who also read it and like to chat about it.

[@adamaris1760]

I would have to watch it to be entirely sure, but from what I've heard it kinda sounds like... just a dumb romance film. but make it gay. like the politics aspects somehow give me Princess Diaries vibes.

[@_k_n_]

Hard, hard agree

[@roxywyndham]

I love a cheesy romcom and I never bring politics in it. I go to shows and movies to escape reality.

[@thisautisticmickee8933]

i highly recommend thai bl and bl in particular if this is what you're looking for!

[@Zaddy-Lu]

I'm a lesbian & I'm almost always more comfortable watching gay men than a cis/het couple.

[@vvitch-mist20]

Same honestly. Cishet romances are bland, dry, and uncomfortable. Maybe it's because in real life, cishet men tend to be very creepy and oppressive.

[@existential_horror5045]

@@vvitch-mist20this is so true. i also feel like lgbt romances put in more effort to actually make the characters' chemistry make sense whereas straight romances are kind of like "yeah i mean there's a man and a woman so obviously they're dating now"... this isn't the case always obviously but i believe fictional characters in lgbt relationships more because on average more actual romantic tension is built up to "justify" the relationship i guess

[@AngryGayNoises]

Exactly this Cis/het romances often function largely on assumption, the dynamics feel forced, and there's a disconnect between how cis/het men act on screen and my experiences with cis/het men IRL. Whether it's romantic or sexual tension, it's just more comfortable for me to watch when the characters are queer.

[@vvitch-mist20]

@@AngryGayNoises Exactly. When I started writing again I thought I had to make my characters cishet but I decided to make everyone queer instead and I'm having a blast. And when I mean everyone, I mean EVERYONE.

[@AngryGayNoises]

@@vvitch-mist20 "It's my story and I get to make everyone hot and gay!"

[@demidevildonnie]

something i've noticed with people criticizing queer media under the assumption its not written by queer people is that sometimes.. it is actually made by queer people, but some groups just assume theyre not. i think this comes from the fact that companies/industries etc do commodify gay experiences (rainbow capitalism, token diversity etc) and thats what most mainstream media is. but that gets directed towards other projects that do have queer people involved, and i guess the way someone could rationalize why they feel this media is bad/flawed/cringey is that it doesnt portray what they percieve to be the gay experience. i definitely believe straight people (straight women specifically) are capable of fetishizing or objectifying gay men, but i think trying to push this idea that these stories can only be told by specific groups or can only be enjoyed by specific groups is very reductive imo, especially if we wanna normalize queer experiences. some people are closeted, some people are driven to gay media not just on the basis that its "scandelous" or "taboo" you never know why individual people indulge in these things. and i think pushing this idea that any queer media that "i personally do not like must mean its not actually made by gay people" can end up being regressive in itself (imo people insinuating this book was written by a woman is transphobia. point blank) sometimes media like this isnt going to be everyone's thing and people are allowed to criticize it, but i realized recently that a part of progressing as a queer society is getting used to the fact that not all gay content is gonna cater to me specifically, or cater to my idea of what queerness is. that doesn't make it inherently bad. i obviously want more complex characters and stories, and i dont rlly have an interest in watching this movie rn. but thats fine, i just need to find/make the media i wanna see.

[@Jabari-vm6jq]

Since movies like Brokeback Mountain, the novelty of just "being happy and grateful to be in the room" has worn out for me. There are now a hundred "Red White & Royal Blue" type of movies out there but there is still only one "Moonlight." I'm not impressed. You've seen one, you've seen them all. I wanna see more "Moonlights." I wanna see more color.

[@moustik31]

Have you watched Fire Island? The Black character felt wonky to me but it has 3/4 Asian leads. It's also a rom-com.

[@MadameChristie]

​@@moustik31it's also an adaption of Pride and Prejudice XD

[@moustik31]

@@MadameChristie Yes! I forgot to add it. It's such a cute and fun movie.

[@Jabari-vm6jq]

@@moustik31 I remember watching the trailer for it but it didn't quite move me.

[@Imetwurld_]

Interview with the vampire has a black masculine gay male lead but I will be happy to see two black attractive men being gay and happy ( i want ROM COMS like dat on Netflix!)

[@demonicharmonic1838]

movie was cute but my burning hatred for the british monarchy made it hard to enjoy

[@JoseSerrato0420]

Does it make you feel better that the book is more "f*ck you" about the royal family, where it focuses more on political marriages, public appearances, and geriatric views and the finale for Henry's plot is his mother telling the Queen (they made him a king in the movie?) that the public accepts Henry, that she's stuck in her ways, and she's scared of the nation finding out she's getting too old to be a functional leader.

[@moustik31]

Same. BOTH the representation of the US presidency and the British monarchy was rough. Esp. after the racist treatment Meghan Markle endured for years from the family and the press. This isnt good fantasy/dream material for me.

[@duqial]

I like politics and all, but the whole portrayal of the political aspect in this movie was just so underdeveloped? Like it wasn't realistic at all and I would guess they would try to make it look similar to irl as the actor playing the prince literally looks like royal family and it takes a lot of inspiration from the real world, so I liked the idea, but the execution of the royal family and president of USA family aspect was very underwhelming. I kinda wish they didn't add it as it could be a cute rom com about for example influencers or smth then it could be cute and unserious like rom coms tend to be, but yeah politics and cheesyness don't really go together for me personally.

[@frenzy2061]

Saaame, i's one of the main reasons I don't really wanna watch it. Regardless of whether the characters resent their positions in society or whatever, I just don't care. Idk there's something so boring to me about the premise of two rich people getting together and one of those people being British royalty makes it 10x worse. As soon as I learn a main character in something is royalty or that a significant portion of a book or movie is spent exploring monarchy crap I just tap out completely lol. Stories revolving around the monarchy are always the same to me, it's always half romanticising being a prince/princess and then said princes/princesses complaining about how restrictive and boring their lives are. I could not care less.

[@mist9818]

for me would be better if he exit the royal family. the guy already don’t like the concept of spending the money of the public so makes more sense. of course is not much that dream fantasy but I think would be a happier ending at the end and better for him since he feel trap by the royalty not just regarding the sexuality

[@ocg6]

I'm a lesbian and I liked it, a kinda cheesy fun film. I actually liked the chemistry and I thought some of the scenes were surprisingly good (especially the lake scene). Also from now on I'm gonna need to have straight male actors bottoming on screen to know theyre really about the cause lmao

[@W41K.3R]

i need 'em to "feel the rush" fr

[@angeladavidson2350]

After what happened to Kit Connor, I'm over queer ppl harassing actors about their sexuality. There are many reasons why we may not know their sexuality and I don't want a world where people continue to be pressured into coming out just for getting queer roles.

[@colejennings4612]

As an openly gay man who has read the book I really enjoyed it I was a little worried about the movie adaption but after watching your review I plan to check it out

[@vernonfrance2974]

@colejennings4612 Here's a question for you. Do you prefer when gays are played as femme or butch or do you like both types in the movie? I like the type who can pass for straight - like Taylor Lautner.

[@mckennapipher]

@@vernonfrance2974 taylor lautner is straight??

[@raekarkoc928]

@@mckennapipheryeah his wife's name is taylor lautner

[@Gabriel-sn6yg]

A criticism of the film a saw sorta a lot was that the film erased Nora's jewishness from the book.

[@christicat221b]

Also she was apparently bisexual?

[@myoder89]

There was a lot from the book that simply couldn't fit into a 2 hour plot and/or would have pulled focus from the 2 main characters. Same reason June was removed from the movie. It would have just split screen time from Nora.

[@Gabriel-sn6yg]

@@myoder89 The criticism I saw was mostly about them casting a Gentile actress...

[@waywardwillard]

Thanks for covering this! It fell in the fluff category for me, though on the “believability” aspect, I feel like most rom coms aren’t believable anyway. I get it if it’s a dealbreaker, it’s part of the genre

[@bradleysabre2298]

i do think the conversation of "mlm story written by an mlm" is a very interesting one to have. a while back i was really wanting to read a novel with a gay/bi male protagonist and was written by a gay/bi male author, as i had just read a couple written by women. and when i set out on that journey, looking for recommendations that fit my criteria, i stumbled upon a thread with a lot of backlash at the idea. as if queer men wanting to read about queer men written by queer men, was insulting to the female authors.

[@verdancyhime]

Hot take- we kind of need at least a little bit of "gay content for straight people" to exist in order for mainstream acceptance to happen. Like... We need your grandmother to sometimes go "Oh, this is my favorite part, it's so cute and romantic" about a gay romantic comedy or it's not going to happen.

[@ddneq677]

Yeah that's the problem...

[@jijitters]

Love, Simon was a major example for that, much more so than RWRB.

[@Alina_Schmidt]

And let’s be real, there are queer people who want and/or enjoy movies that give an „made for straights“ vibe.

[@chickensoupfordinner]

Re: how graphic and realistic do we want the love scenes to be. In Hetero romances there is rarely enough or any for play and they seem to be set in a world where no one gets a UTI if they don’t get up and use the bathroom after. It’s about the romantic feels vibes, not a how to manual. RWRB felt like it was solidly a fluffy RomCom to me so I wasn’t expecting them to get practical or explicit at all. A staple of the genre is ignoring the less hot parts of getting together.

[@HasnaaAlaa]

I have seen lots of reaction videos for this movie from gay men and all of them loved it and thought the actors have great chemistry, when I first watched it I thought the actors have great chemistry too and was shocked to see few people thought they had zero chemistry, I am a bi woman so I had to go search for gay men reactions to make sure I am not too easy to please lol but all the videos I watched were positive reactions, I wish I was as positive about the future as you coz I felt like this movie made me feel a bit sad about how hopeless I feel about it being a possible future reality, as a bi woman living in the middle east I don't see that future any time soon

[@eypu999]

Omg another bi in the Middle East let’s goo (actually we’ll go nowhere, probably to jail tho)

[@HasnaaAlaa]

@@eypu999 😭 I know

[@HasnaaAlaa]

@@eypu999 I don't feel comfortable disclosing the exact country coz the government be spying on us, hopefully you understand, it's ridiculous out here

[@MrSandman_0981]

​@@eypu999As a bi and arab, your comment made me chuckle 😂😂

[@wallycola5653]

Yessss. I read the book (despite my dislike of the characters' extreme privilege) and I was interested to see how the adaptation turned out

[@dancommadirty]

Loved this video! Okay so I have my thoughts together. Speaking as a gay man, I do struggle with media made about us but not by us. I firmly believe that more queer stories existing is an across the board good thing, and I'm also not interested in gatekeeping who can tell what stories about what people. So long as the story is good and it's told well, I'm here for it. That being said, I do often struggle to relate to stories written about by gay men by people of other identities basically for the reasons you listed. I find they frequently fail to capture the many nuances of gay male relationships, as well as those of gay men in general. There were plenty of times watching this film (and reading the book) where I thought to myself "I don't think a gay man would actually say that," which is interesting because the film was written and directed by Matthew Lopez. I was familiar with his work in theatre going into the film to the point where I would've considered myself a fan of his. After this film, I've revised that into being a fan of his plays specifically. Anyways, this failure to capture the voice and nuances of gay men by people of other identities (frequently women) presents a very specific problem, which is that the stories feel like fanfiction about media that doesn't exist. RWRB and its contemporaries (Love Simon, Heartstopper) is so steeped in Tumblr and AO3 culture and tropes that it feels like I as a gay man am being propped up to be gawked at, rather than represented with authenticity. I could at least compartmentalize this feeling if the stories were good, but they're not. They're cliche and drawn out. It feels like the writers took heterosexual romcoms and just replaced the leads with a couple of fictitious softboy UwU Tumblr gays. RWRB's leads wouldn't last an hour on a show like Queer as Folk. Part of the double edged sword of major studios backing stories like these is that now we have to concern ourselves with being palatable to a mainstream audience -- the comments about this movie feeling tailor made to appeal to straight women and well meaning allies from suburban Oregon didn't come out of nowhere. They are the target audience, not us. Not the underclass. I honestly believe that in order for queer stories to be authentic, they need a bit of edge. A bit of bite. Otherwise, they'll just keep on feeling like pandering. I don't think it's a coincidence that, of the times I've truly felt seen and represented by a gay male-centric story, more often than not it's been in the form of a play or book -- or an adaptation of a play or book. Drama and literature, unless it's Broadway or a Big 5 cornerstone release, don't have the same burden as a film produced by a major studio. They also have a lot more history, and much of the best queer literature was written prior to this modern era of gays having any form of mass-market appeal. This is getting rambly so I'll wrap it up. Obviously everyone has the right to write about anything they want, just as everyone has every right to feel any which way about it. Part of it is that romcoms just aren't really for me. I find them super boring, personally. So, that being said, even though I borderline-hated this film, I'm also glad it exists because a lot of people love it, it employed a lot of people and, whether or not it feels authentic to me (in case I haven't made it clear, it doesn't), it seems to for a lot of people. I would hate to do anything to take that away from them, even if they're being really annoying about it lol

[@iilunha]

Same, thought it was paced horribly, and it feels like they spent more time developing the politics of the the universe than the chemistry between the two main characters… like I’m not attached to them at all, and that sucks!! Was overall just incredibly boring to me 😔

[@Strega_del_Corvo]

Thank you for taking the time to write this! The perspective is very much appreciated!

[@hyewonsburntcookie]

I somewhat agree, but also don’t. I thinkkk I get what you mean. I agree with what you said about the gay male experiences being so nuanced that it would be really difficult to capture without being based on a standard that doesn’t exist. Like a fanfiction of nothing. It’s true. We queer people go through so many permutations; it’s not as straightforward as the heterosexual dynamic. But the thing is, RWRB is cultivating that standard in the media. This movie is probably the first proper queer romcom that is targeted to a mainstream, “heteronormative” audience (if you will). They stripped down all of the complications of the queer experience and tried to make it “palatable” so that the heterosexual people would get it. We have lived so many years without their empathy. It might take a cheesy romcom to get it. The borderline idealism of having the FSOTUS and an English prince fall in love, having a female president, and a female prime minister, funnels into a focus of the more real queer experiences: Henry’s internal dilemma in relation to his family, Alex’s process of becoming, their struggle of coming out as a couple, etc. A lot of us have gone through that. Hell, the reason why I wanted to see this movie on-screen is because I looked up to Henry standing up to his family despite feeling stuck! Why do you think there are so many queer indie films that include so many of the nuances and realities of queer people’s experiences, but none of them have been received well by the masses? Because they don’t understand nor empathise with it! It might be a little over the top to say some stories aren’t authentic enough to be the gay experience when you said there are too many nuances to capture them. Also, In the same way that it’s not our fault we’re born queer, it’s not the straight people’s fault for being born into a system that benefits them nowadays. It’s just the reality of how our their ancestors controlled the world. So, we have to make them understand their privilege as a straight person, in the simplest of ways, before getting to the deep shit. Heartstopper is a great example of this. The first season was corny, cute, idealistic, and wholesome. The whole world loved it. Meanwhile, the second season got so deep and real that it physically hurt me to watch. I’ve seen so many reactions from people that started to understand us! The third, I expect, will be worse (from reading the books). But anyway, we owe this to the people who fought for our rights to educate everyone, and RWRB has become a benchmark to get to that point. Being an ally is great and all, but that label just feels so empty if they still don’t get it.

[@dancommadirty]

@@hyewonsburntcookie I would have more respect for that position if it didn’t manifest as sanding down the queer experience to be as blunt and unchallenging as possible. We shouldn’t, and don’t, have to censor or homogenize ourselves and our lives and culture in order to make people in power see us, because at some point, all they’ll have seen of us is this carefully curated version of us that is honestly pretty removed from reality. And especially in a capitalist context where RWRB, Heartstopper etc all exist at the end of the day as products to make money, I just don’t think they’re interesting enough to die on any hills for. To me, they’re just too boring. I watched them. I did my diligence. I gave Netflix and Amazon my views. We don’t owe them any more than that, nor should we give them any more than that in my opinion.

[@hyewonsburntcookie]

Fair enough. But a blunt and unchallenging queer experience doesn’t make it any less real or valid. Some queer people in the world just have it easier (and I’m not one of them). To me, the progress that RWRB made to get people to see us is still progress albeit not radical. I would rather have that than a constant wave of unfiltered, more “real” queer forms of media that would ultimately go unnoticed by those in power.

[@Oxbloodmage]

For me personally when I watch a gay film and the leads are straight which is basically all of them tbh, I used to be fine with it but when you notice how it’s basically every time, I mean we have not a single gay actor with an Oscar in any Role, but we have like 7 best actor Oscars for straight men playing gay men. it starts to grate on me that the people who bullied me in high school would have a better chance landing a lead in a gay story than I would. And so watching this movie it did suck out a lot of the fun watching this, because it felt fake and that them being straight gave them the job more than their performance. But nobody will admit it.

[@ddneq677]

💯👆🏽 They really don't wanna hear this tho.

[@Hey303-jv9kj]

yup

[@饿羊吃狼]

about the part that the author was "fetishizing gay relationships", this is very interesting accusation to me, im a gay man from east asia (china specifically) and bl stuff (if i may call it that) like this is just very very common here, no one (that is mildly online) bats an eye or thinks that it's a weird thing to be into bl/yaoi, i've known soooo many fujoshis in my life that it's just a norm lol, i don't think they are fetishizing anything really, even i read a lot of the bl stuff back then, and some of them are really really good if i wanna feel some of that bubbly feeling

[@eypu999]

I think in the west they’re really obsessed with the word “fetishization” and maybe for a good reason I don’t know. I honestly still don’t know wtf that “ACTUALLY” means, cuz it differs so much from one person to another. I only agree that some straight girls do treat gay male presenting ppls as objects and their relationships as something for their pleasure only, + also they tends to be VERY h0mophobic for some weird reason. But by that understanding, half of they call fetishization wouldn’t make sense.

[@tylers3229]

I’m similar. I’m also a gay man, but I’m from south east Asia and Thai bl is HUGE. I was basically raised by bl and yaoi. In middle school, me and this other gay kid would hang out with this group of girls who were all interested in bl. They were the first group of people both of us ever came out to, and they were really accepting and in a way, they did their best to protect us from all homophobic bullying that would follow. It was sweet lol. Anyway I don’t think it’s fetishizing to enjoy media were they identities of the main characters don’t match yours. I enjoy many chick-flicks like “clueless”, “legally blonde,” “mean girls,” etc. and usually relate more to those women. I watch “fire island,” and even though it represented people like me (gay & asian), it didn’t feel ‘authentic’ to me, but that’s NOT a bad thing. It just goes to show that there is no one ‘true’ or ‘authentic’ gay experience. People are just different and different media will resonate differently.

[@饿羊吃狼]

​@@tylers3229 thailand is like a beacon for queer acceptance here in asia 🤟, thai bl shows and stuff are quite large here too

[@Arkanasis]

I remember working in a bookstore when this came out lol I remember thinking on gut reaction that it looked like a straight woman's super romanticized (if not fetishized) gay political fanfic ( didn't look up the author, it was just the vibe read). Ironically, I (a lesbian) read the author's lesbian novel and reading that definitely made me far more open to the author overall since I could see their interest in the queer community wasn't fetish based. I will say that straight (and maybe some bi) ciswomen were pretty much the only people I ever saw buying the book (not the lesbian one though) in MY store. Of course I lived in the deep south so we weren't getting people with pins that said "dyke" and rainbow patches coming in that often. Maybe more liberal leaning areas so more queer people buying the book. I think women who did romanticize/fetishize gay men's relationships definitely clicked with the content because of the easy romcom vibes? I also think the marketing of the book (the cover, how we were told to present it in stores, the synopsis) all lent itself to being sold to a straight audience. The second book (the lesbian one I read) wasn't as held down by "straight marketing" the cover gave more politically charges cues and featured less generically attractive character art. Not to mention that straight men (who consume lesbian content more than straight women) were not pursuing the romance section where the second novel was being placed. After reading the other book and learning more about the author, I definitely don't think straight people were the *intended* audience (even if they became the main one) and I don't think the author should be blamed for straight women liking their story. Of course this was just my experiences in the bookstore.

[@imaraoctavia]

Just for context I’m a straight ace ciswoman: So speaking for myself, I avoided lesbian media for awhile because a lot of it was sexualized and for fetish. Which is why I just heavily leaned into bi, trans, and gay works of fiction. There is more wide variety or gay representation taken seriously in media and novels, but now there is more positive lesbian representation (or I’m just older and have more knowledge of how to find them). So I’ve opened myself up to consuming lesbian works again!!

[@WitchOracle]

​@@imaraoctaviaCat Sebastian writes some nice fluffy and highly improbable historical romances with a host of various LGBTQIA+ protagonists. As a bi woman, they're my reading candy. Her lesbian stories are so cozy to me, and not at all fetishy. They're the romance novels I wish I had when I first started reading my mom's hetero romance novels from the '80s...

[@chatterbox11]

Considering the book's author is openly nonbinary and bisexual (which I assume by now most people know), the author is themself a member of the LGBTQ+ community, and not merely someone with an interest in the queer community. I am not implying you did not know this, but I keep reading comments that omit the fact that the book's author is themself a queer person. Also, the movie was directed and co-written by an openly gay man, and the other screenwriter is also a gay man.

[@Twat_Dirt]

Because straight men see lesbians as jerk off material and nothing else, they could care less about their relationships.

[@WishGender]

I’m an achillean trans guy and I don’t particularly have a problem with it being two conventionally attractive men. Makes it extra fun to watch since I like cute guys🤷🏻

[@ranchustars3050]

honestly it is a bit confusing people are so mad because this happens with straight romances too? plus the story is already pretty fiction based i dont see why the characters being conventionally attractive makes it even less believable than before, coming from an ace trans guy that likes men.

[@ixnine5116]

I think non gay men can write and enjoy stories about gay men. I’m just bothered by the fact that those stories are the predominantly produced and beloved examples of gay men in media. With both this, heart stopper, yaoi, etc, I hate that it is often ridiculed how much gay male representation exists when the most popular examples are not made by gay men. As for the actor thing, idc if they are gay or straight, but I do believe there needs to be multiple queer voices in production, direction, writing, etc.

[@pinkrose5286]

This is so true. Gay men are probably the most represented part of the community, but so little of that representation is from gay men. I’ve read 11 books this year that had main characters that were explicitly gay males. Only one of them, also the only one that didn’t have a romance, was written by a gay man. Meanwhile I’ve read 5 books this year with prominent explicitly lesbian characters, all 5 were written by lesbians, and none of them were romances. I think anyone can make any character but I wish people were willing to platform gay men’s own stories and not just other people writing about gay men.

[@seto749]

Quite so; it becomes prescriptive rather than descriptive (not always the fault of the author, though Iris Murdoch is the only one able to write MM stories consistently well; perhaps there are other deep thinkers also capable, though I have not found any).

[@WannabeDancer72]

My main disappointment with this film isn't really woth the film, but with the production decisions around it. I'm with you on the CW level of quality of this film. I feel like this story could easily go toe to toe with a lot of the classic cinematic rom-coms and was a bit short-changed by being just being released on streaming. I wanted it to be given the same treatment of films like When Harry Met Sally, My Big Fat Greek Wedding, Four Weddings and A Funeral, Sleepless In Seattle and so many others.

[@Strega_del_Corvo]

I’m torn on the gay actors playing gay characters subject as well. These characters don’t get sexual, but Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby come across as having a lot of chemistry in Our Flag Means Death to me. Same as David Tennent and Michael Sheen. I don’t know if it’s because they are good friends to begin with and you can see the chemistry? Or maybe it’s just better quality acting. (Again, my references are escapist fantasy/sci-Fi content so even being queer myself, my examples aren’t super broad.)

[@raven_moonshine39]

There might be some level of it being better quality acting. Taika Waititi, Rhys Darby, David Tennent, and Michael Sheen have each been acting twice as long, some more, than either of the leads in RW&RB. I also have a personal theory that actors who are always cast as the pretty boy love interest are almost always lesser actors simply because they rely a lot on their looks instead of their acting. If target audience just wants to see two attractive people smooch on screen, then no one involved is going to be as critical about the acting as they are with anything else.

[@GenevieveRadich-qi9le]

kat you’ve taught me so much over the years thank you

[@dreamersfolly]

I absolutely loathe Miguel, the more he went on in the 1st convo with our guy, my alarm bells rang. I read him to be manipulative and mostly into furthering his career by using Alex as his stepping stone. Am fairly confident he liked him at 1st, but the actions he took from then on were just proving my point. In the end with what happened, I wasn't even surprised. I've been around people like him. They scare me.

[@vernonfrance2974]

@dreamersfolly Isn't it a bit offensive to gays that the only truly gay actor played the part of a despicable character?

[@Oxbloodmage]

@@vernonfrance2974I mean that’s always the case lol, they get the bit parts and the straight dudes get the leads.

[@mdwrob]

You did a really great job of digging into this movie and going beyond the reaction stage to something deeper. I would humbly like to add to your categories of movie watchers…gay men who were touched more profoundly, identified with the characters and situations and drew strength from the brave choices and positive outcomes. So, not a fluffy rom-com. The deleted campfire scene drops the hint “Once upon a time, there was a prince…” that we are watching a gay fairytale (this might be the groundbreaking thing) to be read/watched at bedtime. The film seems aimed toward the youth to dream big and “go get your man”. I noticed in watching a variety of RWRB reaction videos that it is young (gay) men who feel the film more deeply (to the point of tears). The emotional parts for many in this group tie to certain scenes in the movie, such as the first kiss at new years in the snow, the lovemaking scene in Paris or the coming out of Alex to Madame President. Also, there’s a historian’s analysis video series on KZbin by Historiansplaining that amplifies the references in the movie a lot more. Thanks much!

[@eypu999]

I was giggling too and that was VERY embarrassing 😂😂😂

[@no.6377]

Why did people think two men couldn't have missionary sex??? I am so _confused_ by this. 🤔

[@kodabuck225]

i only saw one, but for them it was a getting confused by the angles of stuff, they went and experimented with things with their partner after asking a couple questions, then came back with updates, the whole thing was actually quite wholesome tbh.

[@niyah7139]

It Felt Like escapism For Me. It's funny and adorable.😂❤

[@Ambarfing]

naaah, but trust Kat to say all the stuff ive been wondering out loud like..has no one who watched this film ever seen a gay romcom before?? the budget was really the only unique thing about it! so so shocked at how mainstream it is being weird (in my opinion) Drarry-flavored Hamilton fanfiction 😂 thanks for going through this movie!

[@GaryMcSnail]

I think we need more realistic portrayals of gay men the same way I think we need more realistic portrayals of several walks of life: so those who relate can feel seen and others can learn and understand in a more accessible way. Plus, it would hopefully give more minorities a chance to direct or write these things to make them more realistic and authentic. I don't think actors need to be the same sexuality as their characters in order to play the role. With this logic, would gay characters not be allowed to play straight roles? Is Andrew Scott playing the Hot Priest less appreciated cause he's a gay man playing an (assumedly) straight role? I think actors should play whatever roles they can convincingly portray, as that is what acting is. Plus limiting actors to only playing certain roles that only they can identify with would only hurt minority actors in the long run since the typical white/straight/cis characters are still mostly used in shows and movies. I'm torn on this one. I personally don't mind when authors who aren't men write about men loving men because of the emotion they add to their writing and the characters. Not to say men can't portray the same emotion, but women authors in particular do such a good job with it. Maybe that just says I need to explore more authors, idk. I think as long as they're being respectful, it's okay.

[@vernonfrance2974]

Gay actors have been playing straight actors in secret since the very beginnings of the movies. And in Shakespearean and other early plays boys played the roles of women. And there was even a female character who was played by a boy who portrayed a man. Men play women in Chinese opera. So I guess everything has been tried.

[@Sgublaka94]

Well, do I fell stupid. This might be the best video on this topic. Thank you for an excellent video and reminding me how wise you are.

[@mariazamora6824]

When I see people being super excited or super critical of the movie, I think of what Kennie JD said in her video: the two leads from The Kissing Booth & Purple Heart movies (both universally agreed upon to be BAD) play an English prince & the son of POTUS in a gay romcom made by Amazon. The expectations were IN HELL, they were so low. But the fact that it wasn't The Idol levels of bad, that it did have nice moments, that the actors had some chemistry (when the trailer came out, that was easily the top criticism), I think it *pleasantly* surprised people. So when you multiply "pleasantness" it eventually becomes excitement. Every reactor I saw, particularly LGBT+, said they loved it for what it was. IMO the cinematography was nice, it's actually a pretty good directorial debut overall, and I thought the actors did have great chemistry so for a rom-com, that's all I really need. Then again I'm a cishetero woman so I know my two cents don't carry much weight. Congrats on 500k! I remember watching you years ago when you had a fraction of that # and it's amazing to have seen your channel develop 🎉

[@venusgin7779]

I think we shouldn’t ever attack the actors who portray roles who’s identities don’t fit theirs (be it race/ethnicity/skin tone, sexuality, or even in some cases disabilities), we should always blame the casting directors who have biases that show very very clearly. Attack the source, not the lowest-hanging fruits.

[@totoroblack3728]

the book, albeit still having that fanfic-y style, was immensly better than the movie in my opinion, it hit all the marks when it came to content that mirrored my own and many others experiences on a deeper level. And the emails in the book.... babe when i say I cried on every sentence.... I have multiple quotes highlighted cause they pulled on my heart strings like a harp, the movie was more of a cheesy rom com to me, something to just sit and smile at.

[@donny1960]

Well sitting and smiling is very underrated in you life it seems. Sometimes it is all that is needed. Enjoy the moment. Something heavy and deep is just around the corner.

[@jeanne5135]

I will say something about the argument that it's for "straight women because it has two hot guys". It seems to completely ignore the fact that gay men also, indeed, like hot guys. My gay male friends are very horny and they like that they can see two hot guys making out too. Like other people said, it's a Hollywood problem that only attractive actors get cast in romances of any sexuality, but I think arguing against attractive men playing gay couples is just weird.

[@valgdeluca]

The idea that queer content made by afab queer people is for """straight women""" really upsets me. Yes, often times transmasc and masc nb mlm people will have a different relationship to their sexuality and thus explore it differently in media they might create compared to cis gay men. That doesn't make it """for straight women""" - as someone who's spent a lot of time in online transmasc mlm spaces, let me tell you, this kind of work very often alienates cishet women. Just because it's not analogous to the cis gay male experience doesn't make it "straight" - it sounds too much to me like the argument is claiming that every non cis afab person participating in these spaces is "secretly a straight woman". No need to explain how transphobic that is lmao, especially as someone who's been told many times, growing up, that my gender wasn't valid because i liked fictional mlm relationships, and thus that meant i wasn't "really" a man, just a "confused cis girl trying to imitate the things she likes". We really need to stop with that argument because even if it were to be taken at face value.... i dunno. A "cishet girl" who identifies with mlm content so much they would wish to be in an mlm relationship... it doesn't sound all that cis and het to me.

[@russianbot8576]

'real gay men don't like yaoi' is a bludgeon weaponised at anyone who got girled growing up. it's a huge red flag and honestly, it really ought to be more well known that if it comes up it is a transphobic dogwhistle. when i was trying to deny being trans and esp when that denial came around to feeling bad because i felt like i was overstepping into a territory of people who have been shit on and made to struggle for their sexuality, people swooped in (trans men included!) to help me stay locked away and unsure and miserable by myself by informing me that liking yaoi is cruise control to 'probably another cishet fujoshi' identity. it's really harmful, and is a super, _super_ prominent form of erasure for trans masc and nonbinary folks who have sexual attraction toward masc folks only. ('you're just super butch/a stud' is the variant for femme attraction.) i wound up super fucking asexual on T. that said, it took _months_ longer than it probably should have to shake off the bombardment of consensus that yaoi/bl/mlm fic is for women only, esp cishet women, since it gave me a way to stay in denial to not feel like i was intruding in a space that i felt i had no right to be in. it is a rich source of nutrients for imposter syndrome, as any source of erasure serves well.

[@valgdeluca]

@@russianbot8576 This, so much!!!!!!! The whole discourse is steeped in transphobia specifically against mlm transmascs and it gets swept under the rug/forgotten about way too much.

[@sannh]

I admit as a heterosexual woman that F/M stories are a hit or miss. A lot of them are around patriarchal gender roles where the man is experienced and powerful compared to the woman, particularly in the Romance genre, but there are times when you find something good.

[@eypu999]

Watched the movie 5 times and I still watched your whole plot summary Why? idk 😂

[@kotaowens6978]

We deserve to see idealized futures 💖

[@CinnamonHat]

The universal language of girlies giggling and kicking our feet when we see a gay couple being cute and happy 😭😭😭 I feel seen!

[@DontMockMySmock]

your intro made me go "oh you're one of them yaoi girls" lmao

[@Raya-xw5ud]

Regarding whether actors/writers need to share the identity of the characters they write/portray: The more queer people I see forced to out themselves in an attempt to stop the harassment and accusations of "queerbaiting" they're getting the more I'm frankly just done with that discourse (Kit Connor & Becky Albertalli being two examples specifically of this happening to bi people... I know of a couple trans people who were harassed out as well, those ones not even being celebrities, which is even worse). I used to be pretty much all the way on the other side of it where I felt it was very important that they do share identities, but imo it is far more harmful (& specifically antithetical to queer liberation) to demand people come out in order to be accepted in a queer role/as a writer of queer characters. At the end of the day, my ethical position is that queer people should be able to come out how and when they want (even if that's never), and that regardless they should be able to make queer art (art that of course can and should be critiqued on its merits (without getting rude about it ideally) just like any other art). Additionally, I've watched a number of shows where the actors were able to explore and discover their queerness through the queer role that they got while not publicly out. And it was beautiful to see & hear how it impacted them and to see them come out on their own terms. It seems a shame to deny that possibility to those who haven't figured themselves out yet. Imo the real problem at this point is queer actors not getting roles, regardless of what the role is. It's the discrimination that needs to be fought. Hiring more out queer actors is always an option too and one that should be taken more often. Demanding to know things that are frankly none of our business isn't. Anyway, that's just my little rant as a bi woman who's sick of seeing other bisexuals (and queer people in general) get harassed out of the closet before they're ready because people assume their sexuality (often in a way that ignores bisexuals even exist) only to then have to deal with a bunch of biphobia once they do as if the rest of it wasn't bad enough. As for the movie, I don't really watch/like romances, so I feel like I don't have a good idea of what makes a good romance to be able to judge whether this is one lol. I really enjoyed it though. I thought it was a fun time with a bi lead and that's what I wanted lol.

[@Oxbloodmage]

As a out Gay person I find it weird that anyone views criticism from gays as real pressure to come out, when the entire industry incentivizes not coming out, and the consequences for portraying gay character while straight is they give you an Oscar, the consequences of being out, are your career dries up. Lol but we forced kit to come out because why? He felt guilt like tbh I just don’t get it, didn’t his agent go, dude If you stay in the closet, you will get timothee’s career. If you come out you might get a handful of roles if you’re lucky.

[@Raya-xw5ud]

@@Oxbloodmage If you don't understand that being harassed, called names, called a liar, a faker, and being told that you are harming your community, etc, etc by your own community (particularly as a teenager ffs) is psychologically harmful, difficult to deal with, and not a burden that should be put on someone who, as you say, may well have their career hurt by it idk what to tell you. Having to choose between those who claim to be your community and your livelihood is not easy. Perhaps it wouldn't affect you, but a lot of people do care and actually are hurt by words, especially if it's coming from their own people.

[@ddneq677]

@@Oxbloodmage omg I agree completely 💯. It's weird AF to me reading ppls comments about fairness being letting straight ppl play gay roles and calling gay ppl being upset and vocal about it harassment. Something about that is off to me.

[@Raya-xw5ud]

@@ddneq677 What's weird is caring about queer people so much that you want movies to stop casting straight people in queer roles, but also caring so little about queer people that you want them to be forced to come out of the closet to avoid being harassed. It's a lot more than people being "upset and vocal" about "straight" people playing queer roles. If that's all it was, I wouldn't have such an issue with it. But it literally does turn into outright harassment of the people in question much of the time, many of whom have not said they're even straight but rather are just being assumed as such (bc bi people just don't exist apparently). I guess those queer people are just collateral damage to you though. That doesn't sound like liberation to me, but hey you do you I guess. Personally, I don't understand why it's so hard to leave people alone if they haven't said and instead just celebrate & support the out queer creatives if people are that concerned about it.

[@vernonfrance2974]

​@@Raya-xw5ud I went to college in the 60's when being found out as "queer" meant expulsion. That was for just being identified as gay but if specific gay acts were proved it would result in criminal charges. On the legal front at least, things are light years away from that. So, it seems odd to me that playing a gay part is still more acceptable for a straight actor than a gay one. And, although femme gays are well accepted for comedic purposes, masculine appearing gays in many dramas still seem to be taboo.

[@GenevieveRadich-qi9le]

the book got my best friend through her incredibly boring stay at the mental hospital and then i watched it on the year anniversary of a death in the family to distract me late at night and it was so.. plotless

[@stepmaster9988]

You've just summarized the difference between a female-gaze narrative - which takes the viewer intimately inside characters, promotes empathy and produces particular feelings which are what ease depression symptoms, and a male-gaze movie which focusses on stimulating visuals at the expense of the emotional context and whose substance doesn't really promote intimacy in audience engagement so it leaves people cold

[@zcbsajsbxnsdjzcnaskxn8883]

@@stepmaster9988 This was made by two women and tbh you can tell. Gay stories made by women usually lack deeper insight into the gay male experience or are watered down and pacified like hearstopper.

[@stepmaster9988]

@@zcbsajsbxnsdjzcnaskxn8883 I’m glad you said that. The three people who are the decision-makers for RWRB movie are all gay men - the writer, the producer and most importantly the Director Many gay stories made by men also suffer from lack of depth and substance as well as progressive queer politics; perhaps that’s why gay men themselves aren’t supporting those movies and we just see flop after flop. Meanwhile BL is where many men talk about their experience of not just being entertained by those stories but on finding, accepting and most importantly LOVING themselves. Something to think about in a less gender essentialist way going forward rather than zero sum based on binary understandings of human sexuality. There’s more to creating great art than personal identity

[@zcbsajsbxnsdjzcnaskxn8883]

@@stepmaster9988 The rest of what you said makes sense but I don't think it's gender essentialist to want stories told in a female perspective written by people who have direct experience and vice versa. Yes there is more to art than personal identity but it's a whole lot easier to connect with when it's present. Same with black characters written by white people and anything similar

[@stepmaster9988]

@@zcbsajsbxnsdjzcnaskxn8883 I don't understand what you're arguing - for or against. GAY MEN wrote this screenplay, directed every single scene how they wanted it and paid for the privilege of putting their name on it, yet most gay men preferred the book written by the Woman. If they were able to add significant value to the original novel when they created the adaptation by virtue of being gay men, why didn't they do so? What's holding them back? And why does this keep happening with gay stories told by gay men one after the other?

[@NaroLucian]

Gay man of color here, and my personal thoughts are that the movie was fine but it is more of the same, and I don't mean racially either: Typically I would criticize a movie/show that has a gay lead if the main conflict of that character was that they were struggling with being lgbt. A story like that is overdone and is more insightful for a straight audience who may not be as informed or a young gay in their coming out phase. Given that this is a rom com where love and romance is going to be the center of the story by design, I'm not as critical... just lukewarm. For rom coms, I would pay more attention to stereotypes like one gay being more feminine and the other masculine or one gay is strictly a top and the other a bottom (which to me screams catering to a straight audience or ignorance). In a similar vein, I would criticize stories where lgbt main characters have a tragic end... but I would be less critical in a horror movie setting since death comes with the territory. I prefer stories where the main characters are incidentally lgbt; where a they have another interesting conflict outside of their sexuality, but also where their sexuality still comes into play unexpected ways. To be fair, those stories fit better in other genres like fantasy, sci-fi, action, etc. The examples I can think of come from those genres like Arcane. That being said, even in a rom com it would be refreshing to not have an obligatory coming out scene or an arc where the leads are worried about their families' reaction to their queerness. It's much more refreshing if the character is past that stage in their life and deals with more nuanced topics that their lgbt identity would have intersected with.

[@ddneq677]

💯👆🏽

[@Solararisa]

How is one being strictly a top or a bottom catering to a straight audience? There are obviously queer couples who switch and there are those who don't, both are part of the queer experience. As someone who is also queer, this bothers me to no end how people think no switch couples are heteronormative or are for a non-queer audience. I have seen this complaint in the queer community itself, and it's so true how people inside the community view queer folks who exclusively prefer one role and don't like switching. We really don't need more of them. That isn't ignorance, that is how some queer couples are.

[@NaroLucian]

@@Solararisa The devil is in the details. Of course there are plenty of queer couples that exclusively prefer one role or the other but it'll still have nuances that differ from a straight couple that isn't often conveyed. You know how a commonly asked question towards a gay couple is "Who is the guy and who is the girl"? People assume that someone has to be in a feminine role and the other in a masculine one. And they assume those roles are just somehow automatically known between the two men without it being explored or talked about. In a movie, having one be exclusively a bottom and the other a top is definitely the most common type of relationship shown and it's no coincidence. It is the easiest for the general audience to understand while keeping preconceived notions intact. Movies would have you believe that a verse couple is extremely rare and unorthodox. It would kind of be like if every Mexican person in media had an accent and a large family of like 12 siblings. Sure, many do, but certainly not all and if that was the majority of examples in movies then it becomes stereotypical and problematic.

[@Solararisa]

@@NaroLucian Thank you for the answer, then I completely agree with you. This was much more easier to understand.

[@NaroLucian]

@@Solararisa Anytime. I appreciate being challenged on my points

[@HS-hk8mr]

I really liked the book, having just read it recently. Im nonbinary, can't speak for men on this but i felt the book was not made for the straight gaze because of the plot points about discovering your identity as a young adult, the way the characters deal with being outed and the general gay angst were really relatable in a way that straight people would not understand

[@RSStarfire]

I know the movie isn’t great, but I was in an awful mood when I watched it and that made it a 10/10. Nothing like being convinced that love is real and Blexus is possible while eating a pint of Ben and Jerry’s.

[@cass422]

really enjoyed this, would love to see more of this format! and definitely relate to the intro of this video

[@snehapradhan5591]

Also i loveeeee how unrealistic it is! Like it was actually what drew me to the book the first time too

[@brrop]

Just so you ALL know the French translation of the title is "My Dear F*cking Prince"

[@SolarPunkism]

I think the word you are looking for is cheesy! It's so cheesy, that's what causes the giggles 😂 I'm a sucker for a romance so I ate this up! Matthew Lopez is a pretty incredible playwright and I recognize his larger artistic body of work as putting unlikely characters together in the most unlikely or hard to imagine situations. I love that.

[@yourforbiddenfruit]

Men have been writing about women, their bodies, their sexual experiences for centuries, often very poorly. … so the gatekeeping around afab people and women writing about male experiences gets an eyebrow raise from me.

[@ddneq677]

Nonetheless, how gay men feel about ppl who aren't gay men writing about them is valid. Maybe take that up w cishet men.

[@stinadan12]

I feel like some of the critiques are just critiques of rom coms and romance genre tropes in general lol

[@cats0mad0hats]

I've been watching you for over 10 years now. It's been a journey and I am very grateful for your content.

[@Hellooo134]

As a gay man I honestly think it's ridiculous to say that only gay men can write books about gay men, play gay characters, etc. First of all, we should not create a reasons a person would feel pressured to be out. Second of all, even if they were truly not a gay man, and even if they were a cishet man or woman, who cares? I *want* gay content. Why on earth would I tell people to stop making it? I think as a general rule having gay/bi men behind the scenes usually helps make the content better, but that's more of a general correlation than a hard-and-fast rule. I've seen content made by gay men that was frankly just blandly homophobic and I've seen content by other people about us that was wonderful and brought me great comfort and joy.

[@AnonYmous-sd4pb]

The movie was alright, but I preferred the book. The scenes were more detailed and drawn out, the characters had more depth, and there many more interesting subplots. I was a little disappointed that the character Rafael Luna was cut for runtime.

[@vi_cesario]

im disappointed about june getting cut. her and alex's relationship was so important to the narrative that and alex being an only child honestly just does not click for me. that man is a youngest sibling through and through

[@AnonYmous-sd4pb]

​@@vi_cesarioYeah, I agree. The different reactions to the dating rumors between June and Henry compared to Alex and Henry being exposed was a significant part of the story.

[@drinks_menu]

I didn’t watch it because I knew this film wouldn’t apply to me as a gay guy who isn’t upper class or super hot. This form of escapism wouldn’t apply to me under any circumstances. I also hate to point it out, but I’m tired of like 90% of gay content being in the romance genre. Sorry to say, but the primary demographic for “romance” isn’t men, gay or otherwise.

[@amazingspiderlad]

Exactly! I'm always saying this shit. I'm a gay guy and yet I can tell that I'm not part of the target audience for most stories about gay relationships, it's irritating.

[@henriquebastosbernardoni3630]

Yeaaaah, MLM stories being mainly romcoms and drama films (among my two least favourites genres) really makes it hard to appreciate it.

[@-alovelygaycat-]

…Gay Action movies???

[@SapphireSeahorse494]

any of the criticism for rw&rb about straight women fetishizing mlm relationships makes me frustrated because it's not related to this film or book. the author of the book is nonbinary and the director/writer of the movie is a gay man. the conversation about straight women fetishizing gay male relationships is important to have, but this book and movie is not part of that!! it's so frustrating to me because it's so obviously transphobia. "isn't it weird how these are always written by women?" just say you're transphobic and move on, random commenter. the author is not a women and calling them one or using this book as an example in that conversation is misgendering the author and transphobic/enbyphobic. As a nonbinary person that wants to write about all kinds of queer identities, there is zero problem with a nonbinary author writing an mlm relationship!! Am I not allowed to write any romance because I'm aromantic?? No! This is not "for straight people" at all and it annoys me that that criticism of it even exists.

[@spacewinter]

Premise is giving me Princess Diaries, Prince and Me 2000s era of movies.

[@natenankivell8632]

I watched it as a group of people who read the book and yeah they did not do it justice. I think the producer trying to make it more realistic backfired into making the story MORE about the gayze. Like the book had a cast of characters that help Alex and Henry on their journey. Without them, it’s just wattpad level fluff :/

[@augustlunaonline]

I agree, the book was better! The pacing and build-up of the romance was fleshed out better in the book. Personally, I think the movie simply can’t do what the book did because of the time constraints of it being a movie with just a couple hours to tell the whole story.

[@donny1960]

@@augustlunaonline Books are ALWAYS more fleshed out. Going into a movie adaptation expecting every page to be visualized is just plain stupid. Sorry you could not just enjoy what was presented. It was a fun and joyful movie.

[@donny1960]

@@augustlunaonline Really??? A 400 page book was "more fleshed out" than a 2 hour movie. You are brilliant. Part of being taken seriously as an intelligent person, is to have expectations fit reality. If some of the readers of the book wanted all 400 pages "stuffed" in a 2 hour movie.........Well, Too bad for them. Their expectations were beyond ridiculous.

[@Alkestisj]

"i love when my imperialists are diverse" 😂😂😂😂😂

[@Dancersmakeup]

That introduction is so relatable. I like the book more than the movie I’ve read it multiple times as a bi person I loved Alex’s inner monologue. It’s so important to me and all the characters cut were important to me as well. I’m non-binary bi person

[@layneb5002]

Okay but like we KNOW from Gentleman Jack that two straight actors can have amazing chemistry together in gay roles! Suranne Jones and Sophie Rundle were amazing together. Sidenote: still fucking crushed that it was cancelled

[@proudvballmom4142]

Two really amazing queer romcom shows that involve 2 middle-aged men are Good Omens and Our Flag Means Death. OFMD even has a second season coming out this October as well! And the second season of Good Omens ended very recently, and I can assure you, it is VERY gay. Also, Kat, you mentioned you like mockumentories… have you heard of What We Do in the Shadows? I think it’s literally the perfect show for you. For more edgier queer shows, I really recommend AMC’s Interview With The Vampire. It’s got veryyy intense emotional beats and the way the interracial relationship between Lestat and Louis is explored is very realistic and profound, despite them being vampires. If anyone’s got anymore queer shows/movies like the ones I’ve listed above, let me know please! I’d love to find more queer media to obsess over lol.

[@after9bars]

I appreciate this conversation a lot because it's where my closest queer friend and I differ a lot. My friend loves a good cheesy plot featuring usually hétérosexual tropes, but making them gay, and has the very valid take that queer movies don't inherently *need* to be political, that fluff and escapism are much needed as well. However for me I can't fully shake out my lack ot sympathy for royalty type characters and therefore can't bring myself to enjoy movies like these. On top of it, I need a bit of grit and struggle in my fiction. I don't think either of us are wrong tbh, rather that queer rep and queer movies should be diverse enough for both of us to find what we want

[@comfortcrossroads]

Thank you so much for such an honest and nuanced review!! I have hesitated to watch it cause 1) I'm ace and worried it might be too steamy, and 2) I went to high school with the actor who plays alex and although we weren't close (no hate just different social circles), I wasn't sure from the trailer if I'd have trouble immersing myself in the movie instead of feeling like I'm at a high school reunion. I wanted to hear other peoples opinion of the movie before watching!

[@jasmine2519]

I haven’t seen the movie (I have negative interest in the plot lol), based on your description I personally feel weird about what they chose to be realistic vs not realistic about. Like, the world is homophobic enough that they’re scared about coming out and the impact that will have on their lives and that’s the entire conflict of the movie, but actually no, only one person is homophobic, everyone else is super accepting. It’s just tiring. Personally, that isn’t a fun fantasy for me. I don’t want just a sprinkling of homophobia in my fun gay romcoms. I would much rather it just be a future utopia where there’s no homophobia anymore at all, and the conflict is entirely based around something else.

[@sejhammer]

I didn't click on this because the thumbnail looked like a goofy hallmark film!! I figured it was in my recs on Amazon because I read so many LGBT fantasy and scifi romance novels. Still, this looks like the kind of movie I would have been so excited to have watched on Logo like 15 years ago (like the movie Mulligans, please tell me someone else remembers that). Thanks for highlighting this movie, Kat!! I liked to hear about it even if I don't care about watching the movie itself.

[@losingfayth]

"casey is an afab non-binary person" 'casey is non-binary' = relevant 'casey is afab' = not relevant i understand that people may have been bringing that up, but those people were wrong to and u should've called them out harder. casey is not a woman. casey is not a gay man, yes, but casey is not a woman. it really does feel like many of the criticisms levied against their book are coming from the place of "they're basically a woman and they have no business writing queer stories." i know plenty of afab non-binary who people wouldn't look twice at when asking whether or not they had any standing to write about gay men because they either present very masc or have medically transitioned in a masculine direction. then dated men. to not push back harder on how dismissive people are being towards casey because they present more femininely or don't take masculinizing hormones is essentially admission that some people in the community still view being non-binary as a container for ur real gender that everyone has to be nice about but can basically ignore. i don't know casey. i don't know if they've had relationships with men. i do know that if they did they'd not have the exact same concerns or experiences that an mlm couple would have. i do know that dismissal of their queerness and their gender should be pushed back on, and anyone caught complaining that they're AFAB should be thoroughly reamed out in an even more thoroughly unsexy way.

[@Decodethefallenmoon]

This right here. The “afab non-binary” labeling reeks of misogyny and misgendering. Casey is still queer, and definitely shouldn’t be reduced to woman-lite and from a women’s gaze. I am getting sick of people doing this in the comments in here. It’s very erasive…

[@princessjellyfish98]

my hot and somewhat unserious take is that these wishy-washy representation-focused books like this and heartstopper are actually more offensive, because they clearly take inspiration from BL and yaoi but don't have the artistic guts to stand in their shit. like BL is so vast and diverse and I don't think it's trying to be the end all be all of gay representation? whereas these works from western authors try to have their cake and eat it too: appealing to a respectability politic of queer rep while having a lot of the same tropes of BL and subsequently courting the same audience. the author of heartstopper in particular has been very critical of BL in the past even tho their work is clearly inspired by the genre. and that's not even to mention the racial politics of flattening and denouncing an entire genre of work specifically out of east Asia, and then turning around and reselling the same package to a western audience as "good queer rep." it doesn't have to be that! we don't have to pretend bestie edit: I'd say this criticism also applies to some of the audience for these books as well. If I'm not mistaken I believe Casey mcquinston may have been outed as non binary? (if not them it was another author writing similar books) due to people questioning their motivations for writing queer fiction. one of the actors for heartstopper was also outed. I get the desire to actively seek out and hear from diverse perspectives, but I feel like in the social media book-tok era, it's created an environment where people need to justify work that has already resonated with them, which leads to this weird queer means-testing of authors and artists which is unfair to them and their privacy. this same attitude contributes to the misunderstanding and dismissal of BL. there has to be a way to uplift different queer voices without pigeonholing authors into only writing from their own experience. why must we limit how many gay books there are?

[@JessiePotter90]

What's BL?

[@kittyflumpin]

@@JessiePotter90 It's short for "Boys' Love", in terms of manga, anime, and Asian live action series. "Yaoi" is kind of an oudated term nowadays.

[@aisadal2521]

I kept seeing ads for this tv show adaption, actually, I was in the middle of watching one of them lol, so it was pretty cool to see the notification that you did an analysis video on it, Kat! 😄

[@russianbot8576]

you might end up addressing this whole 'what makes gay masc fic actually represent masc romance' debacle at around 28mins in, but i absolutely NEED to express that the view of yaoi as 'not actually being liked by [cis] gay men' so if you _do_ like yaoi fluff (ie have a femme gaze) it is *__super fucking weaponised against folks who are questioning or not yet comfortable identifying as trans men/masculine.__* i used to hear it a fucking lot and it was honestly demoralising and gave me a reload of ammunition to stay in denial for months longer than i probably would have otherwise. later on i did go from trans masc to nonbinary-but that is a long tangential story that can be summed up with '8 years on T made me comfortable with being femme despite strangers almost exclusively still using she/her for me'. but regardless: the weird gender essentialism of how romantic attraction 'works' is bizarro shit, but we really should address how a preference for feminine depictions of romantic attraction is weaponised as a delegitimiser of identity, which is built into the idea that 'only women like yaoi [as a writing style for gay masc romance]'. there is a lot to unpack there about the implicated misogyny also built into it, as a 'wrong' way to be gay and masc-identifying or whatever, esp when it is weaponised towards trans masculine folks (sometimes _by_ trans men towards trans men, mind)... but i will probably need to leave it to the gay community-i'm AAA life post-hrt, ace/aro/agender, but i would absolutely die on the hill that the delegitimisation weapon against liking fluff romance or whatever dynamics or blahblah does real fucking harm and gatekeeps (esp unsure/questioning and early identity) trans men from self-actualisation. and considering the alternative is often much more male gaze oriented (ie SEXSEXSEXSEX), it also runs into the prevalent, pervasive problem of gatekeeping and denial of the existence of asexual-homoromantic masc folks who otherwise would fit in the same spaces (sex-repulsed homorom ace men may not want to opt in but often still use the term 'gay' as a shorthand for identity, since their romantic love orientation points in the same direction). and of course if every film or story is fem-gaze oriented that also would be a massive fucking problem. enbies with strong fem-gaze leanings shouldn't be the only authors of gay masc romance stories. ...but i don't really think it should exclude any of us either, and the fact that there is so much focus on the author being _AFAB NONBINARY_ has a huge stench wafting in on a tailwind. imo. trans people who were girled by society during our formative years and who do not play by the strict ruleset of 'correct binary masculinity' get gatekept a lot due to a perceived lack of masculinity due to the high-walled barrier of entry into 'proper' or 'acceptable' masculinity which may come as so impenetrable that we retreat away from obtaining (and maintaining) the title of 'man' entirely as an exhausting effort that feels impossible to achieve when even the queer community holds shit like 'likes fluffy yaoi fanfic' as a dreadful sin that has folks smearing 'afab' as a dishonourable status onto us to explain away why we are just fujoshi disguised as trans men, but women and masculinity is strictly dickly no girlies allowed. (...8 years on T and i don't 'pass' into he/him pronouns so, no, it isn't a free pass, by the way. i am extremely fucking trans out in a rural town with a pop of 4000) like, that is some fucking smelly-ass shit and should be given a hard, _hard_ squint, when someone sees 'enby', digs up assigned-at-birth markers, and they _must_ mention it as a point of delegitimisation tactic. i don't care what their identity is, that shit is sketchy as hell, and using some weird gender essentialism garbage about romantic story-telling among other skills is super often just weaponised in order to uphold strict gender boundary rules and to gatekeep who is or isn't allowed to be part of the more exclusive man/masculine club (which has a damaging, destructive, poisonous effect on younger trans men especially). it is super gross and i had to pause to address it immediately because i got fucking smacked with that 'fake trans man because _real_ gay men don't like _yaoi,_ lol' bullshit years ago, and i don't think many people are aware that this shit is damaging as absolute fuck.

[@nokiohascontent]

im a little sad that this comment hasnt gotten much attention since this video came out but i want to say i thank ye very kindly for writing it at all ^_^