Is This The Biggest Plot Hole In God Of War?

[@TBP]

Remember to watch to the end before commenting. We're all fans here. Read my words. twitter.com/RealTBP

[@8butsideways295]

I did not get a notification for this only here cause of the community post

[@Dookieman1975]

I think this vid can be explained by, although ares isn’t a complete dumbass, he doesn’t think ahead (much like many of the other gods) But other plot holes that make less sense are Why does kratos still worship Ares after he kidnaps Deimos How did he bring the blades of chaos to Scandinavia when it should be the blades of exile Why did Hephaestus make him nemesis whips when his last ditch effort to stop him could fail

[@DJosAmmel]

A big piece of the puzzle you didn't address and might be missing is that it isn't in the character of Ares to hide his actions. He's supremely arrogant, but not he's not conniving like Zues. He "tricked" Kratos into revealing the truth, so why wouldn't he take credit for that?

[@raptorimperium5757]

​@@8butsideways295 h

[@kharijordan6426]

@@DJosAmmel Isn't it because in all of the gods against they like to spend stories to their favor? Being honest about being an ass hole doesn't seem like any of them really. Everyone sees them as good for some reason or another. How many people in that universe knows of the gods exploits and how many worshiping them out of fear.

[@legoworksstudios1]

I've heard an argument that Ares in Greek mythology famously lacks foresight. Hephaestus crafts his armor and yet Ares banged Hephaestus' wife Aphrodite. Actually, most of the gods (specifically the Olympians) have almost no forward thinking.

[@TBP]

I thought you were about to say "Actually, most of the Gods banged Aphrodite" and I made myself chuckle. To be fair, that's probably not untrue.

[@alibarznji2000]

@@TBP me too 😂😂😂😂

[@Poussyeater-w5e]

@@TBP yeeesh😬RIP to my man Hephaestus

[@Eric6761]

You are correct, heck Ares was trapped in a jar and did some lackluster battle tactic

[@elmaster48]

@@TBP well, to be fair most of the gods would love to bang Aphrodite. In fact, there is a story in the myths where Ares went to do just that, Hephaestus caught them in the act and used a web to trap Ares and Aphrodite and brought them to the other gods. Instead of punishing Ares they laughed at the expense of Hephaestus and some of them said that they would love to be in Ares place.

[@TheGary108]

It did get explained in the events of Ascension that Kratos was Oathbound to be incapable of rebelling against Ares, and the Furies themselves imprisoned many people, not to mention several monsters for breaking their oaths. Ares wanted the ultimate warrior, and even Kratos admitted Ares succeeded in that endeavor. The mistake Ares made was that he assumed that Kratos would be still be loyal to him afterwards, when in reality, by making him the Ultimate Warrior he turned Kratos against anything that even remotely resembles Ares. It wasn’t until God of War 4, that Kratos finally let go of his guilt and became a new man.

[@harrisonhurst6480]

That and Ares wanted to Take Zeus' throne and kill him, and thought he could use Kratos to give him that. It.... Kinda worked...

[@johnleonard9102]

Kratos let go of his guilt at the end of God of War 3.

[@ThatGuy-ky2yf]

People underrated Ascension. I'm very glad to have played the game so far. Some great combat in it.

[@GVGINU]

I would say that Ares revealing himself was definitely more arrogance than anything else. He likely did think of Kratos as being a mortal version of himself, but he also didn't give thought to what Kratos would even attempt to do or how he would react. And even when Kratos turned on him, he didn't see Kratos as a viable threat until much later on in the story of the first game.

[@newhybrid101]

Kratos was ZERO threat until he opened the box and gained the godly power he would have if he wasnt a demigod. Sorry Kratos was never almighty,GoW3 started this myth. For a long time Kratos was an ant compared to the gods. Its hard to accept at this point,but i like rubbing hard to swallow truths in peoples faces soooo .... Kratos was just a demigod back then. "Why is Hercules so strong as just a demigod" Canonically breastfeeding from Hera gave him godlike strength. Demigods can reach the level of Full Gods through magical amps that unlock their potential etc. And yes,even as of GoW4 Cory Barlog RECENTLY reconfirmed Kratos is a demigod and not a pure god which is why he is still has that rage in him(his words not mine),he has simply gotten stronger over his adventures as any protagonist does Peoples headcanons are irrelevant here

[@Alex_Barbosa]

@@newhybrid101 God or Demigod really doesn't matter when you rip off a true Gods head

[@GVGINU]

@@newhybrid101 So...just curious, but what about "he didn't see Kratos as a viable threat until much later on in the story of the first game" was proven to be incorrect by literally anything that you said? You said you like to "rub hard to swallow truths" in people's faces...but literally none of what you said went against my comment. Were you bored or something? I would think that if you were attempting to debunk someone, it wouldn't be the comment that pretty much aligns with everything that you stated. Just go back over your essay and compare it to what I said and see if those things misalign.

[@Fucklifedeadshit]

@@newhybrid101 you have problems man

[@marcoelmago9211]

@@MGrey-qb5xz he still couldnt hope to beat Ares without opening the box and taking the power of hope from it either

[@jayplays9976]

Brilliant observation. But dude, I noticed this the first time I played the game when I was 15. God of War 3 even went deeper to show his wife and daughter's confusion at suddenly appearing at Athena's temple. They made it very clear that his wife and child were put there by Area for Kratos' to kill.

[@anthonynorman7545]

Yeah, and I was like 10...impressive really that he missed the detail for so long.

[@tvdvd8661]

Ikr I was a little kid and noticed this. How did he miss it when he likes it so much lol

[@picassojulien899]

@@anthonynorman7545 yea 😭 like how u just realize this

[@shorddy1668]

Same except I was like 5.

[@Fucklifedeadshit]

I scribbled the scene in crayon like a horror movie when I was 3 and it was 15 years before the game came out.

[@The_Reaper_Ren]

To be fair, when Ares had taken credit for getting Kratos's family killed the Ghost of Sparta was still a mortal man. An absurdly powerful mortal man, but until he found Pandora's Box Kratos posed no threat to a god. I don't think Ares was a master manipulator but I think that he wanted to break Kratos and turn him into a mindless killing machine, the type that would take his grief out on the world but instead Kratos took it out on Ares himself.

[@Scalesthelizardwizard]

Mythology wise Ares always represented the bloodshed of war and Athena represented the strategy of war

[@KaptainKuba]

Love you videos man! About the mystery of how lysandra and Calliope got the village, you're right. It's not explained in game nor novel. However, I believe the mystery is addressed in GOW Ascension. During the ending, Tisiphone randomly shapeshifts into the Village Oracle from GOW 1. I believe this implies that the Oracle was Tisiphone working with Ares all along. And she somehow tricked Kratos' family into taking that trip. This is only a theory, SMS has never confirmed it.

[@My6119]

A good theory. I approve, Boi.

[@solracstormhunter3023]

I have to object to this theory, because the Oracle also cursed Kratos to wear the Ashes of his family, something the Furies have no need or use for. Cursed to wearing his family's ashes works better as a reminder for the people of his horrible acts, when it comes from a victim rather than the instigators.

[@ShatteredGlass916]

@@solracstormhunter3023 actually having Kratos cursed with the haunting memories can be read as a safe-fail mechanism in case of Kratos rebelled against the Furies, and by extention the Gods of Olympus. It's a deterrent mechanism that'll at least weaken Kratos's mind, which can be used by Ares, and the gods, to 'manipulates' him. Which is why it's only activated after Kartos fully severed his bonds with the Furies, right after Orkos's death.

[@theoreticalexistence9630]

@@solracstormhunter3023 Same effect if everybody believes the instigator is the victim, including the person being cursed.

[@spear8403]

I don't agree because why would the fury bind his family's ashes to his skin and shame kratos instead of encouraging him if she worked for ares. I think the oracle was sent by Athena since it was Athena's village and she had a crest of olympus. something Ares is less likely to have compared to athena

[@ssjduncan7682]

Areas: "I was trying... to make the perfect warrior!" Kratos:"so you thought killing my wife and child announcing that act in front of me, and possibly giving me nightmares of that day for the rest of my life and me getting the ashes of my wife and daughter to remind me of that act everyday,along with making me work for you for years would make me a perfect warrior? Well you were right... *Stabs Areas

[@ВладиславБулаев-л3э]

*Verbose Kratos be like:*

[@James-May]

Ahh yes, Areas, the God of Squared Kilometers

[@mat7083]

@@James-May He squared your kilometer

[@gergopiroska5749]

​@@James-Mayive been laughing at this comment for like 10 minutes straight

[@ryzekiv7147]

“Kratos has Crawled out of Hades so many times he’s probably going to get a free Sunday” I don’t know why but this line reminded me of the sailor whom Kratos keeps killing. I also don’t know why, but now I really hope to see him in GoW: Ragnarok as a reincarnation of himself. Fisherman: “hail traveler! How may I- 😨wait, you look familiar…😱oh gods no! Please! Take the boat, just leave me be!”

[@216kingjoker]

That would be a hilarious Easter egg lol

[@freetoplayking7362]

or he could be that one sailor from Norse myth that sailed away before Thor could get to him, causing him to be unable to cross the river (in which they trash-talked each other till the sailor pointed out that he could just walk around the river), he could be so dead inside from that experience that only recognising Kratos gives him fear, to the point that when Thor learns of this, Thor would be like: "I will give you the most painful death imaginable for assisting that man", and the sailor would be like "Buddy, any pain you could do, the guy who killed your kids did me ten times worse"

[@flying-magpie]

He is referenced in Kratos's journal Ragnarok

[@subjectdelta17]

For Ares motive about killing off Kratos's family, a god killing a god was pretty much unheard of at that time, so the possibility of a mortal, or even a demigod like Kratos to kill him in retaliation was probably laughable to him. The worst thing in Ares mind that could come from killing Kratos's family was that he would just lose kratos as a servant. So it wasn't stupidity, more like arrogance, which was definitely not in short supply with the greek gods

[@NoeloCard]

That's it. Even in the novel Ares is depicted as an insane god and the "personification" of war itself and not some master manipulator.

[@lindralyndra]

Ares' logic always made perfect sense to me because he's a perfect depiction of the kind of abuser that isolates a person and marinates them in service to the abuser. They always want you to know what they've done to you IF that is what hurts you the most and traps you with them the most. Ares tried to marinate Kratos into choicelessness, into loyalty to none other, but miscalculated. I think the crucial miscalculation here is something that is very easy to overlook - Kratos wasn't a lone wolf at this point; he knew what it was to demand unquestioning loyalty and servitude, and HIS version of it would never demand that they kill their families for him. He HAD it and knew it. It wasn't zero-sum. He WASN'T actually isolated in the way that he would have had to be for Ares' abuse to get its endgame. I think if Kratos was a sole actor, some kind of assassin or whatever without prior experience with what it's like to hold loyalty and give it, then it would have worked and truly isolated him. But Ares himself didn't grasp that inculcated-trained-beaten-in Spartan military context because Ares himself was all about the zero-sum ideal of loyalty and had never been part of any, like, cohesive collective that dedicated itself above individual motivations.

[@pappymagee6556]

GoW Ascension’s ending reveals that the Furies and Ares were behind his family being in that village. Tisiphone is the one who reveals it right before he kills her.

[@MMarcellG]

for the ending, I read an article YEARS ago stating that the story originally planned was different from what we ended up getting. ONLY going on memory; the next game was to feature him playing a role in future wars causing beef with the other Gods. - We did however end up getting a version of this.

[@kyriss12]

I remember one of the unlockable cutscenes for the first game was a flash forward to the modern military uncovering the ruined of pandoras temple strapped to the back of Cronus’ skeleton. How cool would that have been to replay the the ruined of the first game from the perspective of a more human, but better equipped soldier, possibly even a distant descendant of Kratos himself

[@MilestheDirtyMindedGoblin2099]

@@kyriss12that could be interesting

[@TheKing-qz9wd]

Y'know I never thought there was a plot hole since it seemed perfectly reasonably that Ares just brought them Caliope and Lisandra to that temple. Across all the titles we know for certain that Caliope didn't know where she was or why there was fighting, Lisandra reassuring herself and her daughter that Kratos would come to protect them. We also see that Ares has a giant list of powers as the god of war, like him making that pocket dimension or the telekinesis or the fire. We know the gods can teleport and teleport other things or people sometimes. The narrator and everything suggested to me that; )Ares told Kratos to burn the village down. )While Kratos is already in a fighting mood, he took Caliope and Lisandra and put them right out in the open in a cage/temple so they couldn't escape. )Kratos ignored his instincts because being a coward is bad. )Ares makes a very angry man. I saw no reason to question this summary.

[@MegaDrain]

I like how Ares handles his death too. Compared to other gods in the rest of the greek series, they plead for their life or try and trick Kratos. Ares simply explains his reason for what he did before his death, but still takes it like a warrior.

[@abdulazimnaushad]

Nah he pleaded for his life and tried to remind Kratos of how he once saved his life, he really was trying to get Kratos to spare him. He made the mistake of justifying his actions.

[@Arvandor81]

Kratos being truly the one to blame for his family's death is not a plot hole or flaw. It is the whole point. He blames Ares, not because Ares is responsible, but because Kratos is simply unable to accept his own culpability and needs someone besides himself to blame, so turns his rage on Ares and the entire pantheon.

[@vklasb4847]

Ares is responsible. Kratos was just doing his job. You can’t blame someone for doing their job and then paying for it.

[@shade08538]

@@vklasb4847 Doesn’t mean he didn’t do it

[@themoongateofficial]

@@shade08538 indirectly responsible would be a good term for ares

[@respha9925]

@@vklasb4847 is it really though? he was following orders but he didnt even recognize his own daughter and wife because he was so bloodthirsty.

[@anna-flora999]

@@themoongateofficial literally kidnapping and placing them in a place he knew kratos would raid and be so into the heat of battle as to only notice top late what was happening is a bit more than "indirect"

[@davidpotts7116]

My personal theory - Ares did it as a show of power over Kratos to make him more subservient. He thought of Lissandra and Calliope as a threat, that they may eventually take away his perfect soldier, so in a cruel twist of fate Ares had Kratos kill them. Not because he was too stupid to see the consequence of Kratos rebelling, but because he was so certain that this would break Kratos’ mind and make him submit. Ares for all the fire in his mane was a cold, distant, and selfish god who cared only that he was the most powerful. So, like all other similar villains who suspect their subordinate may betray them, chose to show his might in the cruelest and most gruesome way possible.

[@daviddimitrov3696]

To be fair. Kratos blames Aries mostly dew to greaf and then the whole rest of the series blames himself.

[@ak-jxrdy-7]

Your spelling is somewhat wholesome, lmao.

[@EhrisaiaOShannon]

Ares is still one of the COOLEST looking villains in all of friggin media. His look is iconic. 💜

[@jakewulgar]

And hes voiced by the legendary Steve Blum.

[@GanonGhidorah]

I actually had a theory not too long ago. It was based on the visions Kratos has after Zeus killed him in God of War II. The moment he sees his own reflection in Lysandra and Calliope's blood, we also see a statue of Athena come into view. Now this could just be creative license, as this is the point where Gaia starts influencing Kratos' visions, but I took it as a clue... The potential plot twist is, all of the other Gods know about the prophesy of the marked warrior - especially Athena. So they probably knew what Ares' end-goal was in regards to Kratos. And Kratos was on such a blood-fueled rampage that it would take something jarring to snap him out of it and break his ties to Ares... So my initial theory was, what if Athena really was the one who moved Lysandra and Calliope there and _framed Ares_ for it? This would not only work in turning Kratos against Ares, but also leave him desperate enough to seek help from the other Olympian Gods. Thus turning Ares' attack dog into one of their own. It was just a theory and probably doesn't hold weight considering the rest of the franchise. But it was a nice "what if" scenario. Even still, a lot of other things point to Ares being the guilty culprit; some in hindsight, others not. For example; Kratos' story is pretty much a darker parallel to Hercules. One night, Hera cursed Hercules with madness, where he only saw enemies surrounding him. In his rampage, he killed his own wife and children; and when he came to, he sought forgiveness for this crime by going to his cousin, who set him on the 12 Labors. Kratos is the same - Ares gives Kratos great power via the Blades of Chaos, and from that power, Kratos basically goes mad with blood-lust and is set to an unstoppable rampage. And much like Hercules, his wife and daughter were left in his way. So, Kratos' power drove him mad, and who gave him that power? It all comes back to Ares. And then of course, the prequel games try to further cement reasons as to why Ares was responsible. God of War Ascension revealed that Ares was in-league with the Furies. And as the Oathkeepers of the Greek World, they would be the ones to ensure that Kratos honored his vow to Ares for saving his life. The ritual that would forever bind Kratos to Ares involved the blood of the enemy - the Barbarian King; the blood of the innocent - the countless people Kratos killed in Ares' name; and finally, the blood of _kin_ - his wife and child. It is then that Kratos' bond to Ares is complete, and it is only until all of the Furies, including Orkos are dead, that Kratos is freed. So in hindsight, perhaps Ares' arrogant decision to reveal his involvement to Kratos, was him overconfident in his position that his control over Kratos had been secured, thanks to the Furies' magic. They would never have suspected that Kratos was not only strong enough to resist, but that Orkos - their own son - would betray them for Kratos. But the needs must when all of reality is on the line.

[@andrewjones9690]

only thing's I would add to this, Athena stopped Ares from killing kratos as a child, so she could manipulate events later and he could play his part in stopping Ares, secondly is Athena's Spirit form when her physical form dies has a green hue, and Zues had a dark spirit form also, that leads me to think that when pandora's box was opened, Greed infected Athena, as fear infected Zues, that being why she asked for her power of hope back from Kratos, if it was in fact hers to begin with. since "man kind is cleansed and is ready to hear my message" . however she phrased it. so there is some stock in the theory to suggest she played both sides, banking on kratos giving her the power so she could be the 1 and only all powerful goddess.

[@christopherbrown6523]

It's pretty much all but stated that Ares moved his family to the temple to be slaughtered, and it's also implied that he clouded Kratos' mind with a blood lust so he couldn't understand what he was doing. Also since Kratos is still alive it's possible the ending of the first God of War is still right and he'll witness the wars he saw in his visions.

[@Manjawline]

It would've been cool if GOW 2018 made references and call backs to Kratos' previous family and his brother Deimos

[@VitorHugoOliveiraSousa]

I think they are leaving this to Ragnarok. Atreus will discover that he killed his previous family and it will cause some short of fallout between the two. Leading to Atreus fully transformation on the controversial Loki figure from the mythology.

[@nota444tm2]

Well ya got your wish for ragnarok

[@traviseller8160]

Telling someone to "get bent" while they have a gun to your head doesn't sound to smart. At least to me.

[@lawsharland7278]

Still find it kinda funny how despite Are's molding Kratos as his protege Athena kinda got the last laugh by outliving both Ares and the other gods

[@MasterMind-xr2qr]

Love your characterisation of ares and kratos relationship, it's deep.

[@callmev3531]

8:41, Ares’ lack of realizing how his actions would destroy Kratos’ loyalty to him also suggests just how differently Olympians, especially ones as malevolent as Ares, view relationships compared to mortals. Coming from the kind of dysfunctional family Ares was raised in and his nature disposition as a bloodthirsty Olympian that mainly values strength and power, someone like Ares likely wouldn’t be able to fully process what it would mean to Kratos if he lost his family, seeing him only as a warrior held back from true glory and greatness by useless attachments. It’s this fundamental lack of understanding between the perspectives of Olympians and mortals that leads to much of the conflict in their world and one of the main reasons Kratos comes to resent and distrust every god he meets from then on. It’s no wonder that some of the major conflicts of this story is revolve around Kratos becoming a rampaging, bloodthirsty Olympian just like Ares, the very thing he hates so passionately, and later on attempts to prevent his own son from seeing his godly lineage as an excuse to indulge himself in unnecessary violence that would potentially cost him in the future, in essence Kratos losing and trying to regain the humanity he lost in his path of becoming the God Of War.

[@TheQuatum]

It's Kratos's fault for being bloodthirsty, but Ares knew he would be and used the situation for his own goals. Kratos was warned but chose not to listen so they're both at fault, Kratos more than Ares though.

[@vklasb4847]

Being bloodthirsty? Yes. Doing his job? No

[@ВладиславБулаев-л3э]

I mean... He made an oath. He did his part. But nowhere was it said (it's not a goddamn 21th century written contract) that his family must die in process. Ares gives Kratos power to eliminate his foes and Kratos gives Ares loyal servitude, WHICH HE DOES. And we don't even know for how long he served him. It's Ares' ambition and arrogance, which woke up the true monster in Kratos.

[@ToonGrin]

Honestly I am a bit surprised the writing never revealed Athena intentionally moved Kratos family to be killed by him and then pinned it all on area. As she is a master strategist it'd a bit surprising she didn't come to the conclusion that since the gods use mortals as proxies and Ares is causing so much tumult in Olympus that her strategic mind figured if they can turn Ares hand on earth against him it'd be the best (and most indirect) chance to kill him and remove him. It'd been good set up too then have Kratos learn that down the line and Athena justifies it as a means of the "greater good" as Kratos was just purging across Greece and Ares would inevitable led to discourse in Olympus so the idea was to stop him but indirectly. Kratos in tern not only takes up the same actions as Ares but he is worse then Ares ever was. Sort of show the fallacy of the gods in that they think they are smarter than they are. That they don't see the forest beyond the trees.

[@AmyraCarter]

Kratos was already tempestuous, Ares just gave Kratos more reason to become fully unhinged.

[@lm4585]

Aries sent Kratos to that village and placed his family in that hut so he would kill them. Aries thought Kratos would have to serve him because he made the bond which he was able to break in GOW Ascension.

[@bearieroblox6451]

Ares also probably never expected a mortal could kill him, also it wasn’t just his wife and child the gods had to get rid of his brother and mother.

[@kyleespinoza7201]

I guess for me it was always kind of obvious that it was Ares' fault. He proudly takes credit for it, Kratos outright says they should've been in Sparta and, frankly, wouldn't have any reason to even consider they'd be in some random temple. Itd be like going on a roadtrip to some random town and you just so happen run into your sibling at a diner, even though they were at home when you left and never really travel at all, nor discussed they'd be going to that town at all with you. And then the person who set up your trip tells you they arranged it for them to get there too. I have a pretty good idea who's responsible for that set up then, you know?

[@aelius3805]

"And Zeus was being a douche". So just Greek mythology?

[@drooom2925]

I have to say I actually really liked the video, I always did wonder why Ares openly said it was him but the idea that he was jusy an hesd strong arrogant God who didn't understand human compassion seems like a genuinely interesting answer for the generally undervalued story of the first game. I really would love to hear more takes like this in the future. Have any topics like this you'd want to discuss about the future games?

[@crewie94]

By "the narrator" do you mean "That bitch Gaiaaaaaa!!!!!!" Love the videos and your delivery man. Thanks for another one.

[@HeavyRaiden]

In a way, Ares actually won, he created a monster war machine, the perfect warrior that eventually destroyed the whole Olympus.

[@bupemofyalongwanikunda3772]

I've always been thinking that Athena was the mastermind behind the God of War trilogy

[@ajohnymous5699]

My theory on this is that Ares went to an oracle, asked about how to take down Olympus and the Oracle told him "seek out Kratos, give him thy blessing. Once you sever his ties to mortality, you will have made the greatest warrior and the God of War will topple the Olympians." Which, given his actions and demeanor, I'd say yeah. Would explain a few things and is true to Greek mythology. One Oracle stated if a king led his army through a river against a rival nation then a great kingdom will fall. The king's, for he did not consider if it was his kingdom that would fall or not. As Ares knew he was the god of war, it would make sense for him to think 'i mean, it's either me or Athena and I'm making the perfect warrior. Shit seems stacked in my favor!!"

[@newhybrid101]

At that point Kratos stood ZERO chance against Ares.He was absolutely no threat to the gods on his own and needed special weapons like Gauntlet of Zeus and Pandoras Box. By GoW3 Kratos has matched and surpassed Zeus who is FAR above Ares canonically. People need to accept he isnt almighty and like any hero he grows stronger most of the time

[@nahte123456]

I believe it was in the cutscene where Kratos gets the Blades that he was filled with Ares' anger, which I always read as Kratos could resist but chose to let Ares control him until his families corpses knocked him out of it. It was still his hands, his choice to obey, but still Ares hand guiding him.

[@BrennySpain]

The never ending saga of god of war on this channel! Long may it live…

[@LoneStoneMaalik]

The term God Complex exists for a reason. The way they justify their fucked up actions is insane.

[@lucaspatricio3307]

Free Will as a concept Is not something that exists in Greek Mythology. Everything we mortals do Is something ordained by the Gods. So thats why Kratos blames Ares even if Kratos himself actually did the deed. I always asumed that much.

[@justing7490]

I gave the kratos flashback a pass because he was consumed by bloodlust because of the Chains of Chaos. He went from the best killer to a killing machine because of the chains.

[@lokan_kuru8721]

Wait, he gets a free sundae next time he crawls out of hell, is that a tfs reference, I remember hearing that in one episode

[@TBP]

"Next time I get a free Sundae"

[@shoresean1237]

(Kratos goes to get his Sundae in the afterlife) Kratos: Who is ahead of me in line? (A short bald man turns and looks at him) Kirillin: Oh, hi, Kratos! Kratos: What was it this time? Kirillin: Goat-demon sucked out all my ki - not recommending it. Kratos never questions his own choices in getting him to that ambush/set-up, but in part even that has a background reason, even if never an excuse. Kratos was not merely the destructor of the Olympian pantheon, he was born of it, in more ways than one. Everything he did was just all the elements of Greek mythology writ super-large. In other words, he did everything the Greek gods and monsters always did - just bigger and with negative f***s, rather than just zero. In these old stories, there is a moment where the wronged berserker becalms and accepts their fate and their new station, good or bad - but never Kratos. Every time he nears such a moment, the Gods still have use for him and guide him away, figuring to squeeze that last bit out of him, and then regretting it to a one. Kratos is not merely a superhuman Greek, he is the super-embodiment of that Greek Pantheon and its ways of doing business. He never questions things like that slaughter in a remote village because who in Greek lore ever has? Like the one bit of foresight in the whole shebang is Odysseus telling the Cyclops "I Am Nobody".

[@shawnman1156]

Kratos is also technically a zombie. I'm pretty sure he died from ares in the first game and then climbed out of hades basically making him undead. Soooo Kratos=zombie

[@shawnman1156]

Also he dies in god of war 2 when zeus kills him. He is revived my gia and then proceeds to once again climb out of hades

[@newhybrid101]

"I did die boy... BUT i survived!"-Kratos nowadays

[@ВладиславБулаев-л3э]

His brain never died, so your theory is wrong.

[@Mandalore_ultimate]

"I am what the Gods made me"

[@sethlongoria7526]

I actually really love how in the novel it shows that Zeus, while willing to forgive Kratos for his sin is still unwilling to fully absolve him of the crime of kinslaying. Especially considering the punishment given to the king Tantalus when he killed his son and tried to feed him to the gods. Don't know if it was done on purpose but if it was that's just really good characterization based on actual Greek tales!

[@julianfonseca569]

Nice vid bro, just a key suggestion. Check out God of War Ascension. It explains more in depth exactly why Ares did what he did. TLDR for the game: Ares made Kratos kill his family as a form of a ritual he and the furies called “The Ultimate Sacrifice.” In which Kratos had to kill his kin in one of the challenges. This also explains why Kratos simply has some form of plot armor and to be so effective at exterminating Pantheons. Quite literally, he was built for it. Other than that, bro good analysis! Keep it up

[@Itellyouonlythetruth]

imagine when loki find out kratos kill his first wife and kid 🤔

[@micshork]

Near the end of God of War Ascension one of the furies mentioned “They were not there by chance” meaning they were probably out there by Ares.

[@foreignroninl1555]

13:07 You say that and I imagine Kratos eating a strawberry swirl sundae.

[@Sunaki1000]

I saw it always as two things. A Flaw of Kratos, yes Ares aranged it, but Kratos was the main Culprit regardless. But he blamed the God before himselfe, and this shows his immaturity and innability to accept his own Mistake. And I firmly belife Kratos was never as interested in Revenge as he was in salvation. If you think about it, he never expressed any interest in killing Ares by Words alone. Given his Personality, it was certainly on the Tablet, but his main Objective was salvation, so in total, he looses in the first Game. 11:00 Ares is a God after all, he cant die, so he thought. What would a mortal do to him? And until 10 long Years later he was right. Also I just realized, in every of the first three Games a God of war died. First Ares in 1, then Kratos and Athena in 2, and then Kratos "for good" in 3. Cool.

[@lefteron6804]

Perhaps he was concerned that unless Kratos channelled his grief with rage, it would have the opposite effect of what he wanted. It's very likely that had Kratos no one to blame but himself he would have either hang up his blades and go into exile, or have a voluntary trip down river Stix. This however still doesn't explain why he chose to take the blame, rather than place it on someone else. Maybe he was trying to pull a Vinland saga.

[@malcode9155]

Zeus: 'To me you are the most hateful of all the gods who hold Olympos. Forever quarrelling is dear to your heart, wars and battles . . . were you born of some other god and proved so ruinous long since, you would have been dropped beneath the gods of the bright sky. '" Homer, Iliad 5.

[@christiancinnabars1402]

If you think about it, Ares did _partially_ succeed in his plan. He wanted to make the ultimate warrior that would help him dethrone Zeus. And what did Kratos do after GoW1? March up the Olympian pecking order and kill Zeus. Granted, Ares wanted himself to take the throne afterwards, but halfway success is still some form of success.

[@abdulazimnaushad]

Ares made the mistake of revealing his role in Kratos' wife and daughter getting murdered. He should’ve been smart and not revealed his role or could’ve shifted the blame to Athena/Zeus and claim they transported his family there, that way he could’ve succeeded in turning Kratos against them and have Kratos serve him long enough till he took over Olympus. Then Ares could betray and dispose of Kratos before Kratos even had a chance to turn against him.

[@Fonz128]

Remember the part in GOW3 where spoilers Zeus blames his action on Kratos for opening Pandora’s box back in the 1st game. I could be wrong. I haven’t played GOW3 in forever. I’ll be honest tho I’m done with the franchise. I’m not even buying Ragnarok. The GOW hype died for me.

[@leonpaelinck]

Ares revealing himself didn't really matter. Kratos's motivation is not revenge. His main motivation is freeing himself of the guilt of his terrible deed.

[@levis.5092]

Kratos is seeing all wars in history that’s what he sees when he sits in the throne. Plothole fizzed

[@hopoff9968]

The only problem I see with Ares' plan for Kratos despite the obvious is he should have pinned it on Zeus or Athena, that why he'd accomplish his goal of making him a greater warrior by fueling his rage but also keep him as an ally, who knows him and Kratos could've ruled Olympus together.

[@simonfarre4907]

Ares tricked Kratos to pillage and burn that town to the ground, its implied heavily that Ares controls the woman in front of the building and possibly hides his wife and child's identity from him.

[@MrDj232]

I definitely see the neon "I'm dumb" sign. Having not played God of War since it released (rented from Blockbuster) I spent the first half of this video asking the obvious questions. Why wouldn't Kratos know which city his family is in? How could he kill them, along with the rest of the temple, without realizing it? It seemed completely clear to me that Ares did something to get his family there and then kept Kratos from noticing his family until after they were dead. That's why he takes the credit, and that's why all of Kratos anger is directed at Ares. No companion book needed to figure out that context.

[@arrownoir]

Oh wow, I’ve never seen the post end credit sequel bait.

[@levis.5092]

Kratos is seeing all wars in history that’s what he sees when he sits in the throne. Plothole fixed

[@haroeneissa790]

The biggest plothole in God of war is how titans were able to concieve children with human sized gods. Titans are not that big in real life greek mythology, but they are in this game.

[@BotBruh448]

Man pulled a picture of Fleming from Cel Damage, god damn

[@redpoint6870]

12:17 If Ares had not done what he did, then the part of the fight where you see them "die again" would have been The First time you see them die. That part was supposed to "break his spirit" after all. Ares succeded, Kratos knows it very well.

[@metalwoundnsdr8254]

Okay so I'm no expert on Greek myth or anything but I grew up with this series and once I showed my you get brother this series when I thought he was old enough to see it lol he was instantly hooked and started doing doing research on the real stories of Greek myth to see how they hold up in God of war something I never thought to do I just always assumed God of war was pretty accurate to the real thing but something my brother told me after a few years of him reading stuff watching cou tless history videos and such he told me that Aries was kind of a laughing stock in Olympus for most of the time he would boast about stuff but nobody took him seriously he's the God of war yet other gods that didn't have that title still considered themselves more capable of holding the title than Aries it was aparently so bad according to my brother that they would bully him for being stupid and weak and big headed that even hephestus beat the crap out of him at one point to show that Aries was weak so I'm not saying that this is true this is what my brother told me so idk but when you said in the video that Aries can't be "stupid" um I have a source that says otherwise lol

[@metalwoundnsdr8254]

Forgive my lack of punctuation I rarely care or notice my lack of punctuation but people have made fun of me over it so I guess I'm apologizing beforehand

[@angellara7040]

2:40 the problem is on you. Spartans did attack temples of Athena a lot, this constant civil war lead to them getting rolled on by the Persians, the part that is the manipulation is that his family has zero reason to be in what should be a heretical temple from their point of view

[@cl20v87]

Forget that Kratos entire ethos in the original game is COMPLETELY disregarded in Ragnarok DLC Valhalla. The biggest plot hole is that in the sequel, Kratos gets the ability to control time, goes back to get revenge on Zeus instead of saving his wife n daughter thus severing everything that had taken place up to that point

[@ElFacuPanterA]

Do you ever thought in how to enjoy a drama play without over-analyze? It's all part of a plot, involving gods who had a lot of human impulses. I wouldn't take so serious Ares thinking about this since he was the god of brutality in war, chaos in anger.

[@Croftice1]

Ares is full of himself, he is a god, he thinks he's invincible, more so to a "mere man" (which he thinks of Kratos, however capable warrior he was, he was still a mortal, at least that's what Ares thought), and Lyssandra and Caliope were the two things, that were holding Kratos back. Every enemy could use them, kidnap them to blackmail Kratos into their servitude, if they were clever enough to go with such plan. Ares had every right to think the way he thinks in the game. I'm not defending him as doing a good thing, definitely not, but he's most definitely doing the most logical thing. Yes, it backfired on him in making the most terrifying god slayer to hunt him down, but still he wasn't completely wrong. If he left them live, Kratos would eventually retire, he'd have enough of war and returned to his family, leaving Ares without his most loyal general. So think: if you remove the only means for Katos to return to, you could ensure his servitude for ... quite long time. That's what Ares was thinking.

[@salty3069]

Love your videos ! Would you ever consider doing theories and predictions for upcoming game ?

[@BaldorfBreakdowns]

Also, considering what Kratos has done, Ares might've have figured he wasn't exactly a family man.

[@lone7189]

The only plot hole is how kratos open pandora box without pandora in the first gow

[@wolfzeru5745]

Apparently, Pandora was just the key to reveal the true power inside the box, which was 'hope'. Kratos did absorbed that power anyway in GoW 1, Pandora turned out to be a guide to unlock that power inside of him

[@CuddlyTheMadElite]

You know, I was theorizing that all the events in the Greece saga were all actually planned out by Athena. It would explain why Athena, a goddess capable of completely changing a person's species, claimed to be unable to basically give Kratos minor dementia. It would explain why Athena spares Kratos as a kid+adult despite being a Spartan and a liability (she definitely would have known Kratos would have been a liability). It would fit in with the fact that she was part of the Coup of Olympus story when Ares was not. It would explain why Athena tells Kratos some bogus rule about gods being unable to go to war with each other when Ares is doing just that. It would fit with her being the goddess of wisdom and strategy, forming a plan to coup Olympus for herself from the sidelines. It could also explain why Ares picked Kratos or did some of his actions like putting Kratos' family in a random village worshipping Athena. It would also just entirely re-contextualize the entire series in a cool way. But the book revealing that Athena was arguing with Zues about letting Kratos lose his visions put down this cool theory.

[@TBP]

This is all literally the premise of a video coming out in November

[@Eric6761]

If you think about it, Athena had reasons to figth against Ares for Basic defense

[@unclebobboomergames]

Id say the decision for ares to tell kratos is just him being a god. Characters written as those kinds of gods thats usually their flaw. The dont get it. They just dont. Their ways and lifespans are so grand that their way of viewing these sorts of bonds. He expected kratos to react how the gods would. Id say look at ego telling quill he gave his moms cancer in GOTG2. He does it because his views and ideas of bonds and...humanity...dont exist the way we think. They just dont get it. Then added ascension context and there ya go

[@4ntonio4lvarez]

Didnt aries do it so he can have the perfect warrior for all time. Its why he got kratos family killed.

[@4ntonio4lvarez]

Also the theme for the greek mythology is that they were entitled and arrogant.

[@co7769]

Is the free Sunday comment a reference to the amazing DBZA?

[@OXhuls]

i hope you make more neon signs that say you are dumb but let me explain. na dude...i totally agree with you. sometimes the game seemed to me like the developers had a great idea but midway they realised that some parts dont make sense but they still do make sense if you really interact with the story. thats why alot of people say the older games are shallow. well they are not lol btw... what i really hate is how did icarus s father write the note to kratos in god of war 3 althoigh he was tied to chains. there aree sadly some things that dont make sense at all in the og series. but in the end its just fantasric media and i love every bit of it thanks for the video

[@levanmzhavanadze9760]

Ares teleported Kratos' wife and daughter into that temple and that's why Kratos wanted vengeance

[@godemperormeow8591]

The old games can be deep but also very dumb.

[@BellaKarim23]

You aren't wrong. However, GOW was brilliant in portraying the 2 truths of godhood: power corrupts, and all gods suffer from 1 terrible sin, pride, and hubris. Ares revealing everything at the beginning was exactly both of those. He was corrupted by the seemingly unending power he held over everyone, which makes him blind to the consequences of his actions, and he's a prideful tyrant who believes his own PR and is so out of touch with reality that all his actions are the definition of hubris. He honestly thought he could do no wrong and that his actions had no consequences because he's a god. He also has no understanding of what being a husband and father entails because he was neither nor had an example of it in his own father, so he couldn't understand that Kratos being a husband and father, not a very good one because he too was a prideful ass but still he did love, at the very least, his child, would have any real meaning. I've never been fully sure he was in love with Lysandra, he cared for her yes and likely loved her as a partner and mother of his child, but you don't se the absolute love with her like you do with Calliope where he cannot even think of consequences in the face of having a few moments with his child again, or the pain you see in him when he's alone without Atreius and remembering Faye. In truth, Ares likely only saw them as expendable, because that is how the Greek gods saw mortals, and not understanding a very simple truth, take them from him and your weapon will turn on you because they are all he cares about and, at its core, the only ones he will do anything for, he did after all sell his soul to him for them, Sparta was a secondary thought a best. Kratos knew if he fell, his wife and daughter would be defenseless against the horde and would be slaughtered so he sold his soul to save them. Also this also goes back to his truth as a god. Ares is the personification of the ravages of warn of the rage and pain and destruction not the though behind waging war, that's Athena. In the real myths he was very much a dumb bloke who didn't think things through or know how to plan and Santa Monica did a brilliant job showing that here

[@chickendrawsdogs3343]

Ares popping up next to Kratos like a freaking comic book talking head will never cease to make me laugh. 🤣

[@pharmcat8484]

I don’t understand why your other videos get hundreds of thousands of views and this one has less than 40K. This was great

[@zewnya]

What the hell? I completed first 6 games in the series and this is the first time I'm hearing his wife's name?! Lassandra?!! Where did you got that?

[@PatheticApathetic]

It’s dumb, but it’s not a plot hole. A character doing a dumb thing isn’t a plot hole

[@angellara7040]

Which character?

[@megahobbit5972]

I think Ares just wanted to take credit like the true god of stealing kills. I mean war :P

[@mat7083]

The Heroes of Olympus should have been the final series

[@AstralLaVista]

I loved the DBZA reference when it comes to how many times kratos died

[@mrtree1368]

The real plot hole is that kratos and Aries never called each other brothers even thou both thier dads is Zeus

[@HeavyMetal1435]

God of War 1 is my favourite GoW game (Haven't played ragnarok yet cause i dont have ps4/5) because it is so complete, and could very well be a standalone game. It is also kinda simmilar to a real greek saga, about a hero who gets the favour of one god to kill another, embarks on a journey and finally wins. I like it. As for the gameplay, i think it's really good, GoW 2 might have done it a bit better, but its still a really god hack n' slash system.

[@PrestonK_Productions]

I'm... Confused. What about any of that is mysterious? Ares found a way to get them to that village, either by taking them there by force or some other method that convinced them to go. I'm not sure why the method would matter. And the reason he thought his plan would work is because he's disconnected from humanity and doesn't understand how people work. I guess in the most technical sense it's up to the audience to figure it out, but it's all laid out so plainly that it's more or less stated to the audience what happened and why.

[@DaxanDaxter]

i dont think ares actually confessed that he killed his family, i think gow ascension explains this very well, you should investigate it, it makes a lot more sense when you play that game.

[@shathaan1763]

Isn't said in the narration of the scene of the first game that ares literally put kratos's family there?

[@LoneMyth]

Ares is the only one did that that no other god ever did. Ares killed kratos. Zues is the only God who messed up.

[@borisrusev9474]

I had the same gripe with Ares being dellusional, lacking foresight, I'm with you on that. But I think you are forgetting an important plothole, one at the very start of the game (or maybe it's not a plothole, maybe I'm missing something in which case, please share your thoughts). After Kratos kills his wife and daughter he swears vengeance on Ares. But he never pursues that, instead he just freelances for the gods for 10 years and the only payment he expects is for them to cure his PTSD. So which is it? Does he want the nightmares to end, or does he want to kill Ares? If he wanted to destroy the OG god of war, why didn't he just go for it? The way the story is presented now it makes it seem like it's all just a big coincidence that Athena happens to want Ares dead, which is perfect for Kratos, but what if that had never happened?

[@antirevomag834]

One thought to this that excuses ares' actions without making him stupid, is a simple fog of war. We know that kratos couldn't see who he was striking, it's basically all but screamed at us that the place was smoked up and kratos was in the thrill of the kill. mix that with sillhoettes, as we see in the very scene the kills happen in, and you have a scenario in which two instances exist. First being that ares had put them there, figuring kratos would see them, and make the choice for himself to continue serving ares, or spare his family, which ares probably would have punished him for, as all the gods do, with some eternal torment shit. But with the smoke muddying the picture, kratos only found out it was his wife and daughter AFTER they were dead, to which ares made his reveal there, thinking that kratos made the decision knowingly, without realizing that something had clouded kratos' vision and hidden the truth from him. This securely explains why he'd admit to it, explains why he'd be surprised by kratos in the end turning on him, and explains how he could have not realized it would be such a spectacular backfire.

[@SpScarletSpider]

Yup, it's pretty much a reference to Hera driving Heracles/Hercules mad as well, leading to Heracles killing his family and having to do the twelve labors to atone for his sins.