IS THIS THE WORST TIER LIST IN SMASH ULTIMATE?

[@PandaGlobal]

Let’s take a vote: who has the worst opinions in this video? The one with the most votes gets yelled at

[@Bj-vd2tp]

All 3 of them were based tbh. Soooo, yell at all of them.

[@rngesus967]

Marss for having that outdated since Sm4sh lookin “Miis aren’t real” take.

[@DeronHargrove]

All were pretty good to me

[@CG1337Noob]

Miis aren't real. If you play a game with 70 unique characters from different histories/franchises and main a Mii you're an actual weirdo.

[@pintitledploose9484]

@@rngesus967 this

[@thingamagiga2]

I would actually like to see a serious tier list of this concept from these players.

[@skibel]

I've seen it on twitter before

[@ashton5061]

YES

[@KDotArashi]

I agree. I wanna see them do the whole tier list over in the way they believe is right

[@schmaffew2343]

The problem with a real tier list like this is characters like young link are going to be placed low, even if they're a difficult character, due to the annoying spammers online, who don't do anything, and then the high level player's like Skittles, Twirly, and Colonies who are actually good, if they're basing it off of the online players who are just spammers, the few good Young Links, and/or other projectile characters are going to be thought of as spammers. (if everyone takes it seriously, I hope not if it does happen lol.)

[@CEFG100]

"I don't even know how to use pellet, and I beat Leo." That killed me.

[@rinktheredlink9317]

Exactly, so we should band Steve

[@Walterhartwellwhite07]

@@rinktheredlink9317 huh

[@rinktheredlink9317]

@@Walterhartwellwhite07 if you know you know😆

[@Walterhartwellwhite07]

@@rinktheredlink9317 well Yh I know about the movement to ban Steve but it doesn’t make sense lol n this context

[@rinktheredlink9317]

@@Walterhartwellwhite07 okay you don't know lol. Nvm

[@RocktracksSC]

This list really has two tiers, "Characters I play" and "Characters I don't play"

[@frenchy4798]

The guy that made this is a bowser main so L smh

[@notsakana]

i play bowser but good guess!

[@jeepersreapers353]

@@frenchy4798 That at least explains why there was seemingly no thought put into it.

[@illford]

@Angelic you really out here hunting vods down because you didn't like their opinions?

[@leomurry8195]

Dude, Wadi telling marss to stop dropping games in winner bracket early so he wouldn’t get eliminated by him in losers is the the funniest thing I’ve watched all day.

[@Gixin]

I'm gonna keep campaigning for a Panda Podcast with these 3, that would definitely keep me entertained while I'm at work

[@Gixin]

Oh they hearted it, maybe it will finally happen 👀

[@legendavey5930]

All the ZSS players are trash because Marss still hasn’t made his ZSS guide

[@aetherjuice]

I would love to see a serious "ease of use" tierlist from you guys.

[@Gairith]

I would too!

[@ProtoForte]

that would be legit the same as the big brain tier list but the other way around

[@schmaffew2343]

Lol what about the characters that can be used to annoy you, and are easy to pick up but hard to master, like Young Link, Link, Spammus, or Tink?

[@Fibless]

15:34 Wadi's face to Esam saying minutia is priceless Edit: just noticed Marss' reaction was funny too

[@light_skit]

I didn’t think it was a word people didn’t know

[@Prexon339]

I've seen some horrible tier lists, so I doubt it'll be the worst one. Edit: Okay yeah I'm changing my mind in the first tier. This is horrible lmao. Also yeah Ken is harder. With Ryu i just go haha fireball and it works too well. With Ken I need to actually play the game... A little bit.

[@Prexon339]

And as I am now going back to being Mac player because funny armor, Mac is mad carried and everyone besides like Peanut is bad. I play lots of characters, so also PT has a barely okay player base. They're not bad bad. But like. They're not great yk

[@infiltrate6807]

Ken mashes up b when you reach 100%

[@Prexon339]

@@infiltrate6807 *50

[@mmmrFelipe888]

To me, the two worst things about this tier list is that Sonic is in good players section and Ike/Mewtwo are in "No top level rep", which makes me think the person who made this clearly haven't heard of Yez and Wadi. Either way, I think they're trolling

[@marshtomp8]

I thought this was going to be how good each of the characters themselves would be at playing Smash.

[@dush.1746]

Me too lmao

[@alsager777]

The chemistry building between them is very admirable.

[@Diamond_Aura]

What I think is interesting about the list is like, some of it just follows “normal tier list logic”; like, Robin for example is in the “doesn’t have top player rep so clearly you all aren’t doing something right” tier lol, but like, I’m kinda just thinking, even in the hands of a top player, could the character be used to beat out other top players/characters? Like some of these, it’s almost like “it doesn’t matter how good the player base is for the Character, the real issue is that they main the character to begin with because that characters skill/ability ceiling is lower than a bunch of other character’s skill ceilings”; so it’s kinda like, “just get a better main” and not “oh if they can be perfected better, then theoretically this character in the right hands could beat top players”

[@cosmicrefractions2834]

I play Marth, but I’m confused as to why I’m put into a tier where all characters except Marth are combo heavy, the most combos you’ll see Marth do is a 12 hit combo, from downward dancing blade, and if we don’t count that it’s like the best he can do is 3-4, he doesn’t even have a combo throw, the only way to play Marth good in this game is micro spacing, neutral, and edge guarding. I know tier list have bias in them, but this guy really doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

[@heartbreaker2485]

This looks like a tier list of jhons/insults they use after losing. And everyone at the top they think is fun or cool cause they main or play casually

[@RocktracksSC]

Exactly what I'm thinking lmao

[@notsakana]

i play bowser but good guess!!!

[@thearcrunner6873]

Lucas is weird because as you go from low to top, you go from pk fire spam and pk freeze spam, to advanced technical footstool combos, just look at what Blucas could do

[@pamoon_]

shout outs to sonic adventure music

[@nick1wasd]

I would like all 3 to sit down and make a tier list together. Or talk about what characters they felt like could have/should have made it. OR! To borrow from another content creator (Larry Lurr) talk about what changes they wish they say in the patches, like Pika nerfs or ZSS hitboxes not being bad anymore.

[@saam7737]

9:05 As an Isabelle enthusiast, i would just like to mention that other than the knockback, there actually is another difference in fair and bair, and that is the startup and endlag. Forward air is faster to come out, but with a bit more end lag, while back air is a bit slower but has less endlag so is more useful for early percent combos.

[@datbruh8469]

POV: it's your first day on Twitter and you have no idea what bait is. For context, the guy made this thing in 5 minutes to farm interactions and barely remembers where he put everyone

[@Gairith]

I seem to remember a SFV video where the person made a tier list for each player rank. What was considered high/low tier fluctuated so much. It would be cool to see these guys do a tier list like that, since the tier lists would be vastly different for casuals and intermediate skill players

[@cbuckington2933]

esam finally throwing some stuff back at Marss :'D I LOVE the chemistry of the trio

[@elidelp6]

Top Players: You suck no matter what character what you play

[@dougpouncey]

as a Zelda main, I can confirm that Zelda is WAY TOO HIGH UP. Has the person who made this list ever seen online?

[@doommustard8818]

They're judging "how good is the player base" based almost entirely on the single metric of "how honest is the character"/"how much does this character carry bad players?" I think that shouldn't be the only metric they consider like "how seriously does the character's players take the game?" Like ridley definitely doesn't carry but most of the players who play him play him for the memes.

[@DoctorNovakaine]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize "heavy" was a gimmick now. This is basically Bad Takes The Tier List.

[@Rarest26]

My take is, if the average playstyle of each characters players is pressing the same few buttons, they gotta go in the lower end of the tier list. Unless they’re Min Min cause she only has the very few moves.

[@sparklyskittles6367]

ur right except min min should still be at the lower end because that character is kinda busted

[@Rarest26]

@@sparklyskittles6367 Not saying she should be higher tho.

[@dj_senf6741]

It's funny how there's a tier for campers but Sonic, Megaman, Snake etc are pretty descent at the game

[@ultimateabsol1268]

As a Falco main I think falco's placement is pretty acurate

[@mlindquist8942]

same for me as a falcon lol

[@TreeGuyJon]

I want more Coney with the bois. I mean I love all of you for content but I’m just saiyan. Also wadi been a mad good addition to my sub list.

[@rngesus967]

If I had to pick a tier on the list, I’d say Hero goes in the “No top player rep…” tier. I think anyone who mains Hero (like me) or is decent at the game competitively can attest that he requires you to actually be good at the game in order to see any success with him. Sure RNG is busted a % of the time but if you know how to read and react, then that shouldn’t really be as much of a problem for you.

[@firefatesgaming1855]

There is very good hero player in Japan.

[@rngesus967]

@@firefatesgaming1855 I know. But seeing as how he only really operates in Japan and that these tiers are horribly named, it’s the best fit imo.

[@GrymlynnSSB]

Inajin

[@lucinamain6861]

putting lucina in the top tier hurts me on a very personal level

[@survivorofthecurse717]

I can already hear them now: "Why play Marth when you can just play lucina?"

[@jmann531]

I can't tell if this is a troll list or not.

[@benreitz9034]

The fact that sonic and snake are in the same tier is offensive to the entire snake playerbase

[@Mayadel100]

I mean both of them just camp

[@benreitz9034]

@@Mayadel100 at least snake players aren't actively trying to time people out

[@KevSB07]

Snake players are good because the character demands skill but also he has a few really broken normals so

[@benreitz9034]

@@KevSB07 think of it this way: one has an invincible burst option that combos, and the other doesn't

[@KevSB07]

@@benreitz9034 it's fine though cuz he has a frame 5 dash attack that covers half the stage (and is also partially invincible)

[@Bulzeeb0]

Holy shit, is that music from Bomberman 64: the Second Attack?

[@Inabathtubuv]

istg samus doesn't ever have to make decisions period. like half charge blast is a reversal option, an airdodge read, it covers shorthop at close distance, it is safe on shield, it combos, it kills. and then the other moves are also good. I, as a samus main, really don't think samus players think when they play the game. it's just spamming bombs and rng option selects after jab 1.

[@Willow1662]

It feels like they’re just talking about who’s the most carried not how good the players who choose the character generally afe

[@khyron2010]

I disagree with sephiroth. We die so early that we can loose those matchups

[@evbevbeats]

I would love to see a video where panda members train amiibos then make them fight

[@loptr9581]

I think you could make an argument for Bayonetta being in almost every tier except the one she was actually placed in

[@Emmetlovesredvelvet13]

The only way I see how this makes sense is how much the player of these characters had to struggle to play well

[@Vyhox2000]

I don't know, if it's not about teeth, it's not the worst

[@ONLY_RR7]

That list gave coney ptsd lol

[@reapsd1i931]

As a sonic player, i can tell you that there are a total of 3 good sonic players on planet earth I will not say if im one of them (im not lmao, im mad rusty)

[@geraltrivia9565]

What is that outro song

[@kallinblackburn717]

For the sheik thing, it was after ultimate summit. Void popped off

[@mlindquist8942]

well if its the average player of these characters kirby has to be the lowest because he is picked up by like 50% of new players

[@tumultoustortellini]

"there is no nothing hype under the sun" -Sun Tzu

[@mikeychrisanthus9948]

So I'm a Link player and I feel like I along with most Links play relatively aggressively...until you're on Wifi and he's got one stock left and he just throws boomerang and bomb. I can understand the placement of making a 20 minute best of 3 but again, I feel like most Links are aggressive; I don't know if that matches up to what other people have experienced.

[@jabug_1144]

I’ve fought so many wifi links that default to non interaction and zoning for the whole match. But I’ve also fought a few aggressive links.

[@rollysgaming6575]

Tbh finding out the panda channel is actually amazing. Also that tier list is just... ugh, the person who made that doesn't know about smash as much. Probably never heard of smash pros before lol

[@princegoatcheese9379]

It's time to play everyone's favourite game, "Guess the Tier List Creator's Main"

[@randomtheorist251]

I'm genuinely wondering if Little Z created an alternate Twitter account and posted this just to see what you guys would say.

[@HoboraMax]

As a Pichu main, yuuuuup Accurate tier list.

[@duh_raven]

I just realized that marss and esam are matching lowkey

[@Callvis]

Although I felt slightly insulted when ESAM was talking about the Pika player base and what they do incorrectly (mashing lol), he couldn’t be more right and I can’t stop laughing! 😂😂😂It’s so true! I do the exact same things he was talking about!

[@avocado4388]

Be neat to see them categorize the roster based on their game-plan

[@Lexicon865]

I'd say the overall Kazuya playerbase is either those who aren't super great with the character or at least can't combo as well (myself included lmao) or are just always trying to go after the same combo again and again. There's like only three or so good Kazuya's I can think of and one of them kinda spends more time whining about the character, one doesn't seem to attend tourneys as much and one's a hit or miss

[@Brandon_4272]

16:02 Can we all agree that that was the cleanest Donkey Kong Zero To Death ever! That was filthy

[@jacklantz7535]

I play Incineroar, and pretty much the only cheese he has is up special, which is actually hard to land if your opponent know what they are doing, and I think Incineroar has evolved from just spamming revenge and alolan whip, so I feel like on an average level play, incineroar players aren't great, but not terrible either.

[@timbo6933]

Bruh you can tell this was recorded a bit ago with how they're talking about Lima lmfaooo

[@madMILL3R]

I'm sure someone could just make a cross between characters winrates across all of online and an average of a few reputable teir lists. Low winrate + higher teir = bad at the game, high winrate + low teir = pretty good at the game and all of the inbetween. High teir characters might require a sufficiently high winrate and low teirs would require one not too low. I'm also kinda sure this already exists.

[@mlc0547]

yo ima monke main and i think we're all one big hive mind. also i wanna play someone else but i just don't rlly like playing a lot of the characters besides heavies. also can we see a panda version of this tier list?

[@robertocastro3310]

The best player base is the ice climbers player base, i dont know a single ice climber that is not skilfull, and also they have high win rate in online and offline

[@Iamtimeforsomethingnew]

Totally unrelated to the video topic but I think it would be fun for these three to at some point do a Ironman Race or Ironman Challenge where they all race to see who can get the furthest in an ironman in a set amount of time. Typical ironman rules applying otherwise so if they die go back to Mario, but otherwise say in like an hour who gets the furthest along. Also we need Little Z to host smash charades with Marss involved or somehow rope them into You Lose You Cosplay, or go get Hopcat and do smash moves irl

[@Xearrik]

Hmm, maybe he's basing off his opinion of real life players, and a character like Pikachu doesn't count for much because ESAM is just one good player among a the whole player base. That's the only thing I can think. Edit: My favorite part! 14:27

[@PixelatedCatMan]

seeing the definition for minutia pop up is pretty funny

[@GING173]

There’s not many top level Ike players because he is very easy to gimp and is played way too simple by most players except like yez and ravenking. There’s also just a lot of better/different swordies out there

[@PotatoeMonkey]

As a robin main i love the book combos and crap but we’re braindead because we get combo projectiles and killing aerials with disjoints. If u loose to a robin it’s because u gave them space. Literally mash on us and we can do nothing.

[@star14604]

Which set did marss beat mkleo with mega man without pellet

[@jeepers3222]

Just look up marss mega man

[@Naito9874]

The part where Coney shows the subscribe button made me lose my shit, that guy makes such good faces

[@BryceS9]

You guys should make a tier list on how how fun/not fun a character is to play against

[@Contrary22]

Sonic doesn't even have to time his opponent out. That character is good. Fricking good. That's just the players... I don't think its a stretch for Sonic to be in top 5... Just nobody wants to put him there because of the timing out his players do all the time.

[@jeepers3222]

He doesn’t take an ounce of skill to play effectively tho

[@itsbandyyy]

No chance they put the echo fighters a different tier than the original

[@Andrew_Graves_Burial]

So this was recorded before the Lima incident 😂

[@kokoro3984]

“Did you just call me cuphead”

[@slade_pikachu]

The primary reason Pit mains are not the greatest is because the top reps for the character (Shinymark (he does travel, but not to play Pit), Luminous) don't travel as much. Whether that be due to money issues or covid. They don't have enough experience imo of going out of state to play Pit against good players in other regions. Another reason is that no low/mid level Pit looks up ways to get better at the character because all they're doing is spamming side/neutral b on elite smash and not using their brain. Just like with a lot of the characters in the cast, the good players who are good are actually good at the character and the bad ones are bad. While there is a huge (skill) gap in the middle for the mid level Pits

[@artimist0315]

I mained bayo for a long time, secondary villager and recently switched to sheik so at least I have fun not killing. Bayo mains are in my opinion pretty bad, they spam side b the whole game and since bayo's kit outside of specials is awful, they lost their fundies. Villager mains are average, since you at least need to understand timing mix ups and optimise your ressources to beat decent players and have real fun with the character, but since it's an otherwise a really easy character, it compensate. Like it's an easy to play character with a not so easy gameplan. Sheik mains are pretty good, you definitely need to be decent at the game to start to enjoy playing sheik, that why so many beginners hate sheik. The character has a pretty dedicated fan base, like if you main sheik your trying to play the game well. I think a lot of characters with really small player base like duck unt have really good player base, since they generally known why they want to play their character. Like duck hunt having an interesting moveset is not obvious for beginners, and even then it's a big step to take for switching your main for duck hunt, so the rare duck hunt mains are generally pretty good. That's also the case for rosalina despite the character being way easier to notice and pick up. Me ? I'm trash never mind.

[@Buki0300]

loved the banter in this video

[@Buki0300]

in all the videos tbh, but i feel like it was apparent here

[@myholmiestreams]

I still wanna see the panda crew react to that waluigi vs smash rap trilogy by mashed

[@Sponsie1000]

l feel like the way to approach this tierlist is to assess the quality of gameplay of the average fan of every character. So for example if you look at pika, it doesnt really matter at all how good esam/shinymark/etcc are, it's about how good the average fan of esam/shinymark/etcc is. Probably pretty medium/high, because pika is quite technical, but he's also pretty flow-charty and if you assume the average fan of esam is a pika-main and has put some time into practicing nair-loops, they should on average be pretty decent at the game. But looking at the tier-names the creator of this tierlist didnt take it that seriously and fair enough l guess,, if he was mainly out for controversy then he succeeded whole-heartedly

[@mico6155]

What an unfortunate timing to feature Lima in your video lmao.

[@H1_R3Z]

I think what might've happened with this list is the maker was thinking along the lines of "okay, what character's would a person with this mentality pick?" Like, the "no sense of neutral" tier is full of characters that either try to ignore neutral, like Falcon and Falco, or play neutral for you, like Sheik and Greninja, so they would be the ones that people that are bad a neutral would play to cover their own weakness. Similarly, the "loses +2 mus" tier is broken characters that carry players, while "actually pretty decent" is characters that are good but don't play the game for you. It's like looking at the mentality that leads someone to pick a character, rather than looking at the existing player base for the character. There are still some oddball placements, but it's an interesting list, if a little misleading.

[@Willow1662]

It feels like they’re just talking about who’s the most carried not how good the players who choose the character generally are

[@Ryuryusu]

I’ve been looking at Lucario in that tier all this time fuck is his cheese dying at 50?

[@kangarapps368]

The more I look at these three the more they remind me of The Front Bar

[@thebigweege9534]

Luigi does two things grab AND down b out of combos

[@pikapower98]

I think the pika player base are at least decent at the game. The few I see at make out the pools consistently at major level and appear in top eights at locals. The pikas have potential, long as they continue to invest time into learning the character They’ll only get better. You’ll see what I mean when shiny mark gets the opportunity to travel more often( Most likely when the Covid ark ends).

[@gustavmahler3228]

As a ZSS player I feel offended

[@katsoupman3218]

Brawler mains just mash the same options and think they’re cool because it works, me included

[@pintitledploose9484]

brawler goes in yellow tier and no top level rep tier at the same time because he's mashy and nobody plays him because he's a mii (except esam but that's pretty much just for counterpicking), i play the character, i would know

[@elidelp6]

Top smash players just call out other top players all the time and I love it

[@audioshake6366]

I’ve seen a lot of tier lists, but this has to be one of the most objectively wrong lists I’ve ever seen lmao

[@dei-vdw]

As a aegis player, every single aegis player is fucking horrible.

[@manakete]

As a pyra/mythra player, I have to say that our placement here is correct, we do be pressing buttons

[@PrinceSamTV]

Why did I JUST notice they all have glasses 🤣

[@maximumblaze8968]

Lowkey Why Isn't Marss A Metafy Coach Yet?

[@ProfessorJayGaming]

Twenty-one minutes of explaining why they’re unqualified to comment on common-level gameplay 😂

[@sitharthbalu4728]

I think Panda should disect Poppt1 tier list I think that would be super funny

[@NathanRW]

I miss Brawl Olimar, he made me feel like a God back in the day :'(

[@destro1549]

So I main Roy, Ike, and Marth. Roy is absolutely correct Ike...I dunno I'd say with Roy because Nair, "want one thing" or where Marth currently is Marth has no combos in average play however most of them are actually surprisingly descent as far as I've seen (I have only seen like at most 10 floating around within the 2mil to approx 9 mil range)

[@cabbages982]

They kept going back and forth between skill of the player base and difficulty of the character. What is it actually supposed to be?

[@DoctorNovakaine]

The tier last maker didn't even know what it was supposed to be.