Is this Too Strong of a Poker Play?

Bart and a caller discuss the correct line for the hero when he flops an incredibly strong hand as the caller in a 3-bet pot.
To submit a hand for consideration for the call-in show read instructions here: crushlivepoker....
If you want to improve your live win-rate checkout the best training site for NL cash games in the business CrushLivePoker.com.

[@michaelkozlowski2149]

Caller here: Thanks again for the opportunity to call in. I was very very nervous and apologize if I overspoke. Realized immediately after the river sizing is terrible. Need to go 1/2 or 2/3rds and just call a raise if that ever happens. As far as the opponent goes, I had only played a couple times with them and felt they were a bit tighter but not enough history to be super sure in the moment. After seeing their hand they’re way tighter than I initially perceived haha. It’s probably too ambitious against a wider opponent to even target the AK there with the 3 bet. Pretty disappointed with the river play overall but you live and learn! Thanks again for the opportunity!

[@thomasduehestnes6547]

Its completely missed here that you pretty much cant have bluffs here on the river - therefore villain will make a lot of folds, at least he should in theory. Phil galfond made a great philosopy video about these situations way back, where he theorized villain could easily fold a king here to a bet (not your extremely small block bet), but probably value bet any ace and possibly call a check raise. I think C/R is a great line, and would def not say betting is so clear cut

[@michaelkozlowski2149]

Great point here. Hadn’t thought of a xr here. If I bet a normal size a lot of the same hands I’m targeting will bet anyways and potentially call a xr. Agreed that it’s tough to have bluffs in that spot and folding a king for a reasonable size makes sense. Thanks for the input.

[@dblackoutx]

I like an overbet otr with both bluffs/value to something like 400 targeting the two pairs that x back or putting loads of pressure on one pair hands like Ax/Kx. We just have the best hand like 95% of the time after the turn action.

[@seankiesling2054]

You did just fine speaking. You weren't bored or monotone. Did fine

[@stevenundisclosed6091]

Bart Hanson

[@bpro5848]

Hart Banson

[@richbros1]

@@bpro5848 Barson Hant

[@hawazinmohamad9172]

Barf Handsome

[@Geege101]

Charles Manson

[@sinatra222]

Brat Sonhand

[@mtgoxsucks435]

That check back on the turn from the villain was horrible. He thought he was being crafty but he would’ve won so much more if he would have just played his hand. Too many people try to get to creative and reinvent the wheel. Caller got off cheap thanks to an idiot villain.

[@gratler]

was thinking the same thing. you cant check here as our hero has a lot of GS plus pair hands and letting him realize equity is a disaster. i could have sworn villian has QQ or JJ for sure. but it also makes sense. people seem to freeze up for some reason when they flop top set with QQ+

[@nintendolover82]

The caller is trying to be super fancy with his “random” and “mixing” and all that.. god it makes me cringe when I hear those phrases at live poker

[@iansane1928]

Don't forget the "I ran a sim"...

[@theryan244]

Philly Live is a new casino. Rivers is the old Sugarhouse 👍

[@ronbondie9502]

thanks 4 the vid Bart

[@rigbyyourewrong3445]

Bart Handsome

[@bryanjohnson8162]

That's why I like the little blocker bet size the smaller size every once in a while entices them to try and bluff you out but obviously only in certain circumstances this being one of them with a hidden set and you don't think they have the straight

[@hustlinhooks]

Thanks Bart

[@rad9105]

You've confused Live! Casino for Rivers Casino, which used to be Sugar House. Live! is the most recent casino built in Philadelphia.

[@shawnchouinard268]

Really hate the flop call. A lot of scare cards can come on the turn making this hand very difficult to navigate. When I unblock top pair, I'm raising here almost 100%.

[@JohnSmith-nx7zj]

Yeah. AA and Kx never fold. And even QQ and JJ probably call figuring they’re in position and might spike their gutshot.

[@michaelp43]

So you raise all your value hands, sets, straights, two pairs, 100% of the time.. but what are your bluffs? There are only gutshots and backdoor flush draws besides 87 available, and with 87 if a J comes any single Q beats your bottom straight.

[@shawnchouinard268]

@@michaelp43 who cares? I'm more concerned with being balanced pre flop in these spots. I want to exploit my opponents for the maximum here especially in this type of game. In a different game and structure, I'd start considering balancing with my bluffing range. In this exact spot, you're paying me.

[@michaelp43]

​@@shawnchouinard268 "In this exact spot, you're paying me." -- yeah right. You raising me in a 3-bet pot, as a 3-bet caller, with no realistic bluffs, on a flop with a K. Can you make your set any more obvious? When you think you're exploiting others, be careful not to end up being exploited yourself.

[@shawnchouinard268]

@@michaelp43 you realize you're thinking 10 levels above the average player? I know this from experience. Just had thus happen last week and I made it 3X pot all in on thr turn and got snapped off by one pair. Got paid. There's always exceptions but I prefer to go for the maximum. Don't be a nit.

[@MrPhilaCuse]

You guys both agree the river is an obvious bet before unwittingly making the case for checking. What hands are calling a river bet that aren't good enough to vbet after we check a 3rd time?

[@miketidman3398]

Here’s what’s wrong with poker today. Set over set basically min bets the flip and check checks the turn.

[@tallpaulpoker9542]

Live! Is just a new casino in Philly, same brand/corporation as Maryland Live!. The old sugar house is now Rivers Philly

[@maniacmatt1782]

From Philly. Live is a new property near the stadiums. Sugarhouse became rivers and is on the waterfront. And then Harrah's Philadelphia isn't in Philly at all

[@revancory]

Philly Live is only like 2 years old. Rivers used to be Sugarhouse

[@calebjohnson9740]

I feel like the river is just a bet call. What hands are you targeting that Villain is raising the river with? Is he really gonna do that with a hand like aces up?

[@KS-ud8pg]

Rivers Casino is former Sugar House.

[@adamseidel9780]

Does the OES draw heavy flop plus villain never really having the nuts there make the flop better or worse to check raise? My immediate thought was the villain never has the buts but has lots of gutters, so a check raise range for hero has lots of draws of its own and also may charge JJ and QQ for their draw. A bluffy looking value bet. What do people think, seems like that board is particularly good to get he Xr in.

[@jasonbrown1121]

Sugar Shack was a little more north, in the centerish section of Philly. Live is on the south side by the sports complexes.

[@CoolHandC]

I never would have reraised a tight player on the river. He had a set of kings all day long

[@patjablonski9739]

Tight players check back flopped top sets here when the A comes on the turn? Damn that's tight

[@seanmccafferty2296]

That check back on the turn makes me feel physically sick

[@MrStevie57]

Losing set over set is so gutting.

[@cocoaguy2]

Philly Live is new Sugar house is now Rivers

[@jakeromberger7698]

Philly live is a new casino just built within the past year or so. Sugar house is now bet rivers Philly

[@joshsheppard21]

Philly live is new Philly rivers is the old Sugarhouse

[@jeremykeefer9425]

sugarhouse is now rivers philly. philly live is a newer casino

[@adamseidel9780]

Heart Branson!

[@lemmyorleans]

There are 200 bb sims on range converter..some even have straddles

[@IcyVegeta]

Hart Banson.

[@jamesbell1613]

He already knew that the player was very tight. Why raise the river then?

[@miketidman3398]

At the river raise I say, “One of us is gonna hate this call.” I feel you can re-raise with either and A or a K on board but not both after being 3b pre. But the number of AKs that down up there is so large. Gross spot. We should have lost it all tho :)

[@jakecooper5855]

You weren't in the hand

[@jamesdressler2463]

Sugarhouse is now Rivers

[@7kbolding]

Randomization in a live game, Jesus Christ this game is ruined

[@vallacespoker7902]

Solver plus is all I have do you have any recommendations that are compatible in price and quality … and is solver plus worth it I notice I can’t put specific situations in … thank your for your analysis .. keep crushing

[@pot_kivach160]

11:49...block dynamic in the end". Wadda hella is that?

[@rhcp9009]

I ended up betting trip Jacks on a K2J5J board on the river and this older gentleman @ the lodge just called my river bet and showed KK in a tournament 😂😂. Turns out I think he said he meant to raise because he threw out a 5k chip and i had bet 2k but it stood as a call.

[@Gdupfromthefeetup]

Playing deceptively does this to you! If you didn’t even have a straight then you dead unless you go all in on river!

[@gordonbelle1375]

9:47 I hate it when a caller tries to interrupt Bart when he is thinking out loud.

[@MEJBD12]

Right? And the callers who try to sound smarter than Bart

[@gordonbelle1375]

@@MEJBD12 Don't forget the ones that claim "that's what I was thinking" after Bart articulates a complicated thought process about the pros and cons of various actions, and the differences on future streets that come from each. Yeah sure dude, that's what you were thinking .

[@effortlessawareness8778]

I've heard bart talk about how if you are raising a bet on the river it essentially becomes a 1:1 situation where opponent has to call more than 50% Of the time? Is that to be breakeven in that spot or mdf? Because pot odds and minimum defense frequency are computed differently mdf calls alot more. here in regards to pot odds when hero 3bets on the river villain is getting laid $1115/$350 Which is ~ 3.2 to 1 and so in order for villain to call, villain *must win* at least ~24% of the time to breakeven-- in other words in order for villain to call, hero *must be bluffing or value owning* at least ~24% of the time- or you can say villain must beat at least 24% of hero's 3bet range on river. but bart says villain *needs to call* here more than 50% of the time as its is a 1:1 situation. Im confused as to why he makes this differentiation and go with the 1:1 on the bet itself-- because can we not essentially say that about any and every bet or raise we make on any street--that it is always a 1:1 situation in itself? Why is it useful to differentiate a bet/raise/3bet as 1:1 rather than pot odds

[@Pzychotix]

The point is that you can always just call for the money in the pot. Any extra money you put in is equivalent to an empty side pot, in which case the odds are always 1:1.

[@Savsal12]

Listen to it again. It’s not always a clear cut 1:1

[@BrianM216]

Bart handyson

[@michaelreesman3829]

Not a great 3 bet on the river in my opinion. Caller stated that the villain has a very straight forward 3 bet range. You’re looking at AK KK AA QQ JJ, most tight players don’t even 3 bet AQ or JJ. With a re raise on the river, he’s rarely bluffing with JJ or QQ and even if he is he can’t call a 3 bet anyway.. AK might re raise river but again, it’s too optimistic to think that hand will call with sets and QJ out there.. doesn’t seem like there’s any hands in Villains range that’s worse than ours that can call. Bet call river, possibly bet fold if the guys a super nit.

[@GregoryZ75]

I disagree. Bet shove river. You're probably beat when you're re-raised on the river, but you have the nutted range and he does not. Only way to win here is to shove instead of min clicking. Or else, give up. But that's a lot of money left on the table to just give up. Shove river. A nit thinks you have the nuts 100% of the time.

[@gtknight7885]

@@aheroictaxidriver3180 and you can’t do that if you give up here all the time. when you’ve got the nutted range advantage, and you’re this deep into the pot, and you’re almost sure you’re beat, you have to bluff shove - otherwise, when are you bluff shoving? There’s no better time than this.

[@Junieper]

@@gtknight7885 Turning the fourth nuts into a bluff sure is *an* idea…

[@onthebeach8211]

I think he misplayed every street post flop

[@Glitch47278]

River 3 bet is just a mistake imo, this is never a bluff and in 2022 I think everyone knows that. The fact that v can have worse value is irrelevant bc he will be very reluctant to call a raise with AK, he sat there tanking wanting to fold KK!

[@zachkay5403]

If we have a possible hand we want to call in, how do we reach you?

[@majorleagueblackjack27]

Nope, Rivers Philly is the old sugarhouse. "Live!" Is Brand New.

[@JimBuckleyBarrett]

set over set - nothing you can do in this case.

[@taibanh333]

Whoever has pocket 1010 is the nit and he asked other nit crush live poker lmao

[@lpslpslpslpslpslps]

What an epic slow roll! (Sorry just trying to trigger Bart)

[@derekstevens3119]

Whof barted

[@gazorpazorp9798]

Ax spades

[@joemiller95]

This caller has to be the most smug, self-confident, even dismissive person who has ever called. He's barely interested in what Bart has to say except for one tiny part of the hand, the rest he finds annoying to even have to recount and listen to commentary on. Yup, yup... so yeah, anyway... and he goes right on.

[@paulmcdougald4953]

Kinda hear you but there have been way worse callers

[@scottt7456]

Sorta disagree. What's he supposed to say? Bart says what he would do, caller says I hear what you're saying and get it/agree. But he did something different so moves the discussion along. I cringe at the "randomization" stuff and Sims, but I had no problem with his pacing of the call.

[@joemiller95]

@@scottt7456 Think about how the guy comes across - as a student there to learn? Or as a guy who thinks he's Bart's equal or superior just having a quick conference to get an opinion on a small point. To me, when one is a student, one should take an attitude of calm and let the person teach you. Just make space for the person and be as receptive as possible. But that's me. I'm a tutor and I'm also an excellent student, I can learn things more easily than a lot of people, and I've tried to understand why that is, and I think it's because I always strive to have a beginner's mind, like I'm just started at the level I'm at and like I don't think that what I know is anything I need to defend, because part of learning is being able to easily give up pieces that one thinks are good, when in fact, they need to go. I found it kind of funny how much the guy seemed to take charge of the call, and my thought the whole time was why is he asking Bart anything if he has so little interest in what he has to say? Through most of the call the guy just says, "yeah, uh huh, yup, that's what I thought, but..." and he just pushes and moves and manhandles the call to the exact question he thinks is the most important one. He's making so little space for Bart to change his ideas about anything or to convey anything new to him.

[@joemiller95]

@@scottt7456 I guess I'm more used to this kind of interaction having done so much tutoring, but I can sense that the guy isn't interested in anything Bart is saying about the part of the hand he has no questions about. He has a tone of voice that just pushes Bart to stop talking. I've watched fifty of these and for me, among callers, he's on the upper end of dismissive about everything up to the point where he really wants to ask his question. It's like he'd prefer to just ask that part of the question and not have to even deal with the discussion until then. There's not a single bit of interest on his part in anything Bart has to say until that point, his entire tone and response is saying, "Yeah, ok, whatever, can we just get to the part I'm here to ask you about?" But everyone relates to these things differently so it's interesting that you didn't relate to it that way.

[@thepossieguy]

Gets advice that doesnt align with how the hand was played “i do a little randomizing while im playing” lol what a joke

[@lowlimitcashgamespodcast]

10 combos you lose to and 9 that will call your raise (AK). It’s just a call. That being said I don’t like the way it was played on flop or turn at all.

[@harbingerofepiphany3155]

How often is VIL going to 3bet QJ suited pre? 🤔 + Dont over look the occasional A9 A10 99 that he may have taken this line with Pre! There is still some money out there to be made by Raising.

[@Savsal12]

Villain is a tight player and he’s folding all 2 pairs and probably even 99 here. He almost laid down top set

[@gernotg8480]

DEAR BART. Please give me a chance and let me work for you

[@Mathemagical55]

Bart doesn't need a towel boy.

[@johnnytwotimes7854]

The explanation on the end of having to get called more than 50% of the time by bart is wrong, you have to also factor in how often you're beat

[@johnnytwotimes7854]

@@aheroictaxidriver3180 but there's no risk without the winning hand, if there's no risk you obviously always raise lol

[@bmh010lionmail]

Thank you for the reminder that I love my parents. They literally took food away at diner if I repeatedly said “Umm” during conversation. It worked and I am so grateful.

[@c10wnbaby22]

Dude it is 'dinner' - guess your parents didn't do that great... 👍

[@calebjohnson9740]

I feel like the river is just a bet call. What hands are you targeting that Villain is raising the river with? Is he really gonna do that with a hand like aces up?