Is Vail Resorts' Downfall Inevitable?

[@PeakRankings]

CORRECTION: We erroneously characterized Capital Expenses (CapEx) as expenses in the "Other Expenses" category of Vail Resorts' P&L Statement at 8:23. Turns out CapEx isn't actually an expense at all 🙂 This might be a bit confusing if you're not from a finance background, but here's why: CapEx is technically the funds used to purchase acquisitions, new lifts, etc. So this line item is actually an asset on the Balance Sheet - and does not play a part in Vail's Net Income. "Other Expenses" include purchases that typically happen on a one-off basis and are hard to group with another typical line item for the business. It might include things like one-time legal fees or settlements, unusual maintenance costs (e.g., an unexpected bullwheel replacement for a 30-year-old lift), or losses on investments.

[@kaseyburleson]

Capital expenses are assets that are depreciated or amortized (items that are expensed over the life of the asset versus fully expensed when paid - they have a useful life). Going forward, revenue per employee could be an interesting metric to trend and review. If it trended higher and higher, it could mean short staffing and lower service.

[@Aussierob06]

Hi. You missed Crystal Ridge Express at WB. 1994 Poma originally installed as Harmony on Whistler and relocated to Blackcomb in 2013.

[@rachelwilson5292]

It is still an expense just not an other expense its counted as depreciation/amortization as sgna on the income statement and decreases ppe on the balance sheet

[@FELiPES101]

coming from a finance background...I figure Vail will eventually price itself out of business. Are they close to bankruptcy? No. Is it a good stock to own? No, unless you bought and held over ten years ago. They can only price themselves out of trouble for a period of time. I think you should make this an annual video to check up on the state of the industry.

[@Capitanvolume]

It is priced as a luxury good. Rich people might just pay for less crowds. I haven't been to many vail resorts but whistler is packed with 300$ day pass.

[@samtaylor6185]

Is this financial advice 😏😏😏

[@mtadams2009]

It may go the way of golf. I have some family who are big into golf and when they told me how much they paid skiing seemed downright cheap. Since you work in finance you know there is no shortage of very well off people.

[@j.p.6228]

Curious your thoughts. They do own all of the real estate. Haven’t ran a valuation on them, but I’m imagining their book value is incredibly misleading. And that is worth something

[@AV-fh8rd]

@@j.p.6228 They do own real estate, such as base areas, hotels, etc. but they do not own the mountains themselves. These are leased from the forest service with a hefty payment annually.

[@KeatonAN]

Big ski corporations like vail have done irreparable damage to the ski industry.

[@ericd8739]

This!^ The ski industry and mountain experience will be much better (and affordable) if the resorts would go back to being independently owned and operated, rather than the few huge conglomerates we see now. Get rid of the awful Epic and Ikon passes, as well, which are driving up costs (lift tickets, rentals, food, and pretty much everything else.)

[@newagain9964]

⁠@@ericd8739These national/international ski passes are incredible deals (for now). I Never would have been able to afford to ski so many great mountains in amour of time i did. And there’s reasons why so many resort owners have been selling.

[@newagain9964]

@@ericd8739 These national/international ski passes are incredible deals (for now). I Never would have been able to afford to ski so many great mountains in amount of time i did. And there’s reasons why so many resort owners have been selling.

[@rjbennett3418]

Don't forget Alterra . Evil incarnate.

[@BCRandom69]

I’m praying for Vail to fail. They destroyed my home resort after buying it.

[@kevinhaig4844]

Vail has ruined skiing. It is unaffordable for a family ski vacation now. Lift tickets and paying for parking is it of control

[@Zeethos]

Lift tickets have never been more accessible… Vail fucks a lot of things up but ski ticket prices are incredibly affordable if you just buy them ahead of time

[@patrickdressler9966]

You should have to pay for parking on one of the most valuable tracts of land in the country

[@hogcranker123]

@@patrickdressler9966 all the big resorts in the rockies are on public federally-owned land. the value of it is a totally moot point.

[@Rob-me8vp]

@@patrickdressler9966the parking price should be included in the ticket price. How many people are accessing the mountain without a car.

[@reddottx]

@@Zeethos if your a flat lander who just wants to slide around a bit and look at the pretty mountains for a few days getting a pass is stupid expensive too. As a good skier perhaps that brightens your day, but I think of it as elitism. Skiing is fun and people should be able to just enjoy themselves in nature without such a hefty price to entry.

[@cowymtber]

We (three guys) went to Switzerland for a ski trip last January. Ski pass in St. Moritz was about $55 a day (sleep and ski deal), while staying at the All in One Hotel in Celerina (next to St. Moritz) for less than $100 per night, per person. Even with the plane ticket of $800, and some train rides, it was cheaper than driving to Vail and skiing for a week. Did I mention the spectacular Alps?

[@ChrisTurchin]

Don't tell people!

[@andymeyer9876]

​@@ChrisTurchin Exactly! I was unaware that it was that affordable, now I want to go.

[@DiederikCA]

And you're talking about Switzerland, which is far more expensive than France, Austria and Italy

[@ChrisTurchin]

@@cowymtber don't worry though, Vail Corp has also figured this out and is trying to buy up Europe too

[@cowymtber]

​@@ChrisTurchinwe actually started out at Andermatt, which is owned by...... Yeah, those guys lol.

[@reidr7288]

The corporate strategy of monopolizing an entire strategy and price gouging the consumer needs to end

[@xthe_moonx]

its obviously the immigrants and trans peoples fault /s

[@hogcranker123]

it cannot and will not ever end, that's just late stage capitalism. it will only stop when the entire system comes crashing down

[@TrendyStone]

@@hogcranker123 Luckily Veil resorts only owns ONE resort in Utah. They own Park City now...a great mountain...which they are driving into the ground by neglecting maintenance. It's now the worst run ski resort in the state. Terrible! Tourists don't know better so they still ski Park City but locals have figured it out. It's just not a well run company.

[@marknovak2413]

@@TrendyStone I remember paying $15 to ski Park West (now part of Park City) in the early '90s. Skiflation is obscene.

[@TrendyStone]

@ True. I’m old enough to remember when Brighton and Solitude were $7 for a day pass.

[@Nate_Higgins]

Just like with any other industry, things seem to be better with smaller companies competing rather then massive conglomerates owning everything.

[@wallyballou7417]

There’s no way the independents can afford the capital improvements needed to keep a ski area competitive. The independents in California (Bear Valley, Sierra at Tahoe) are struggling because they don’t have the money for new lifts, updated lodges or even paving the parking lots. It’s tough business.

[@RJ_400]

@@wallyballou7417Sierra is now under ikon😭

[@Nomer77]

@@Nate_Higgins the increased need for snowmaking in much of the US has made competing as an independent extremely difficult. Independents are always going to be at a massive disadvantage with regards to access to capital for investment/improvement and that is before you actually pay to make snow.

[@andrekvam7897]

Its always better consumers. Its only worse for bigger companies when you lose consumer confidence.

[@DiederikCA]

​@wallyballou7417 European resorts have been doing that for nearly a century, and they are far more modern than their US counterparts. The difference is the ownership structure. Most resorts in Europe are locally owned so they have the incentive to keep skiing viable in the long term

[@reddottx]

Was offered a free condo in telluride for 3 nights. Did the calculation without owning an Epic pass. It came to around $1500 for two of us to ski. Doesn’t include flights or food etc. Could easily spend 3k for basically a couple of days of skiing. Add the condo and it’s 5k? That is literally the definition of insanity.

[@robertfrey1105]

Living in Germany, I could book spontaneously in the middle of the season to let’s say Kitzbühel (posh resort), into a 4* hotel for about 900€ for 3 nights for 2 persons. + 3 day ski pass ca. 430€ for also 2 persons. US is mad 😱

[@shanmaomao4156]

Looks like you're basically forced to get the special passes if you don't want to lose money on single tickets.

[@jody8526937]

Fly to Italy..

[@ChristopherGaffney-fe5ve]

I hear you and that’s Telluride, an exclusive price locked / pass-level locked top resort. Just to round out examples, I have ~20 days of vrbo’s locked up for $6k across Crested Butte, Vail, Beav Creek, and Breck for this season. I paid $1.4k for my wife’s and my epic local pass. My K-5 kids ski for free on Epic’s CO kids pass (4x days at Breck, Vail, Keystone, BC, and CB). So we will get ~20 days this year for about $6k lodging, $1.4k in season passes, and skiing for 4 people. That’s 80 individual ticketed days of skiing for a daily ticket/lodging cost of

[@gatilleropr1]

​@@robertfrey1105we no talking about Germany....😂

[@jerryglasses]

Done with skiing in the US. Its cheaper and better to fly to Europe to ski. Next year Mont Blanc for cheaper than Colorado after all costs. Travel and lodging

[@johnrion3232]

Don’t let the door hit ya :)

[@JohnnyUtah13]

Ever since I got back into the sport in 2020 (I know...what a time) I have been skiing independent. First at Loveland...now with Monarch. Can't beat the prices. Plus all the free days at other resorts are SO underrated. As a side note, my son and I own a small business that is trying to break into the ski/snowboard space. Monarch welcomed us with open arms. We can't even get a phone number to call to talk to someone with Vail resorts. lol

[@thyslop1737]

When you call Vail Resorts you always get some foreigner with imperceptible English. Epic pass and Mammoth pass holder. Vail Resorts is a joke.

[@peetydontpass8309]

I bought a Cooper pass it's good for Cooper Monarch and Loveland. It was a bargain in comparison.

[@keno1069]

Monarch is such a beautiful place. Skiing there is a great experience.

[@tylernathan7985]

Loveland was our go to place in the eighties

[@TFRLIceman]

Someone else who completely understands! Like, sure, Vail and Breck have amazing terrain, but it's literally EVERYTHING else about the experience there that makes me keep going back to Monarch or Loveland. Hoping we get Eldora back soon, too.

[@markclowdus3834]

Got a mountain ⛰, a snowmobile, and a rope with a porta potty. Better hurry before Vail buys me out.😎

[@andrekvam7897]

Yeah enjoy the free accomodation before theres a cc on the potty.

[@NoOne-zo6gj]

Vail Resorts are simply not worth the money they charge now. Ski at the family owned places, the way it should be.

[@ozzik3029]

I go to Seymour, mostly because it's private owned, and tickets are afforable.

[@VenicePsychic]

I used to teach snowboarding at Mount Snow in Vermont when it was a great mountain with wonderful midweek deals where you could buy a lift ticket for 50 bucks or under. Vail completely ruined it. I wish they would go bankrupt and leave everyone alone and mountains could get back to normal.

[@ivwshane]

They’ve made skiing for those who only go a couple times a year not really feasible because of their high costs. I personally didn’t renew my season pass because they raised the price for no apparent reason.

[@PS-zw4yc]

I think they are raising prices as they need to make money in shorter windows in New England the snow is seemingly gone terrible ski seasons. They have less opportunity to sell and it’s busy when they are open and no lack of people lining up to pay

[@ToddFification]

Epic Day Passes are the way to go though for cheap lift access if you’re skiing 7 or fewer days

[@mtadams2009]

I don’t think they actually care about people who only ski a couple times a year. They target people like my friends and I who have the ski virus bad and have to ski. Not skiing is not an option. Count your self fortunate that you can stop skiing and not lose your mind. I plan on skiing until I am dead. If it snows in hell I will ski there too.

[@ivwshane]

I snowboard and have the same bug. Luckily I’m in Tahoe and have many options. This is my first season without one of the big passes. This year I opted only for a Sierra at Tahoe pass. Lucky for me what I find fun doesn’t require a big resort. Hopefully my experience isn’t ruined with Sierra’s partnership with ikon.

[@reddottx]

@@mtadams2009 I don’t think you’re their target audience at all. They want delusional people who think they’re going to ski 10 days but end up only skiing 5. Really they’re just huge real estate companies that use skiing as their killer app

[@paulbeckwith5062]

If you are fed up with US lift ticket prices and the crowds, simply head to the Alps. Lift tickets are about $60m per day, slighpy more at the most prestigious places. The food is great. The scenery is way better than the US and the after party is awesome.

[@trevorsyversen9956]

Agree on the lift ticket prices. Probably mostly due to liability insurance costs . The other stuff I guess comes down to personal preferences. In addition crowds and lift lines can be and ARE crazy in Europe.

[@counterfit5]

​@@trevorsyversen9956 liability and also lift tickets not including rescue services. Plus with huge areas, they can sell lots of tickets without crowding too badly

[@teacherguy5084]

No question the scenery is on average totally superior in Europe, and ticket price savings will easily pay for the extra flight costs from the U.S. I think in Europe the company top management isn't trying to retire on a couple years' wages.

[@Cucumberflavoredmustard]

While this is true, the snow conditions are really sketchy. With such huge areas, they get neglected by the groomers. But if you like icy moguls all the time, it might be for you.

[@roberthenry9319]

"Simply go to the Alps". You really wrote that. If a family lives anywhere in the U.S. and loves family skiing, transportation to the Rockies or the Sangre de Christos is very reasonable. World class skiing is scattered throughout these areas .Flights to these areas are inexpensive when booked in advance and highways are free. The time and effort to reach the ski destination is no more than a 12-hour trip. A passport is not required. English is spoken. The Alps, as hopefully many skiers know, are in France, Austria, and Northern Italy. Transportation is expensive, time consuming, and physically draining. A passport is required, which at the very least is a time consuming pain in the rear to obtain. Although English is spoken throughout all resort regions of the Alps, American visitors have been made to feel unwelcome even before Trump was elected. So, why are the Alps a "simple" solution to high U.S. lift ticket prices? I see that some comments say that flying to Europe and skiing at, say Mont Blanc in France is cheaper than going to Colorado. If that is true, how can that be true? Am I missing something?

[@squeegeeman2000]

You did an impressive amount of research for this-can’t wait to see Peak Rankings pass 200K subscribers!

[@alexconrad2904]

Can confirm it was a lot of research

[@CleverAccountName303]

Research? They basically just read the earnings report

[@LifeProducersofNewJerseyLLC]

Ski areas often do a cost plus valuation of lift tickets. So instead of pricing for affordability, they figure their costs, and just increase. This is like the small business that wants to charge consumers full retail prices. Sadly we don't have a Walmart of ski areas to come in and challenge these high prices. I recommend to all skiers that are fed up with these prices is to boycott these ski areas, and patronize smaller areas. Also, trash these high prices on social media and at ski shops etc, until they get the message.

[@gregford5971]

It's more complicated. If you ski a lot and live near a "competitive" area like Tahoe, the Epic Pass is the Walmart of passes. For example it was cheaper in 2022/2023 to buy an Epic Pass which gave me access to three Tahoe resorts, plus access to Whistler for a ski vacation, than it was to buy a pass at an independent resort. (Epic pass with blackout days vs independent resort pass with weekdays only.)

[@JamesMcGillis]

I'm glad I am 76 y.o. I come from the era of $10 to $50 per day lift tickets. I'll live with my great memories of a fifty-year skiing career. Good luck on that $369 lift ticket.

[@dayno321]

Shut up

[@anthonymedeck7081]

Yep, I skied Vail, Breckenridge and Copper Mtn back in 1976. Sun up and Sun down bowls at Vail were the coolest place I ever skied

[@dannycolazzo1]

Vail is actively ruining the ski industry. I live on the east coast and make a pretty decent income but its almost impossible for me to justify spending nearly $3k just to have 4 or 5 days of good skiing per year. Even if I wanted to stay more local and go to Vermont, a day pass is nearly (or over) $200. These prices are absolutely insane I dont know how they expect people to keep up with this. Last year I went to Pico (based off of your Vermont ranking video) and it was an enjoyable time at a fair price. Its the only place around that doesnt charge an arm and a leg. I remember I used to go skiing mutiple times per year and spend $40 for a day pass......I miss those days

[@MrReborn12345]

Buy a pass

[@ta-da3054]

Still expensive even with a free pass

[@newagain9964]

Those days are for skiing and basically every other pastime are over. Stop going to epic and ikon (pico) resorts. Or they will end up owning everything.

[@ericd8739]

@@newagain9964 Unfortunately, there are fewer indy resorts around these days. Take up backcountry skiing.

[@newagain9964]

@@ericd8739 agreed. And cross country. Most ppl wanted better ski sites and experiences, the big two gave it to them and now they’re all complaining.

[@pistolen87]

As a European, the day ticket passes prices are insane!

[@s81n]

I went to Big Sky Montana a few years ago and if you didn’t already have tickets a single lift ticket for one day was $1200. $650 if you were there on a weekday. Unreal.

[@pistolen87]

@@s81n That's insane! Especially considering most of the costs for running the lifts are fixed.

[@Nomer77]

@pistolen87 It's also not true. I just looked and Big Sky's highest lift ticket for holidays looked to be about $275 USD for a holiday (they had it online as 270 discounted from 275 for January 1st). There is a private club next door called the Yellowstone Club that I thought was member's only but may have some sort of guest fee, that may be what OP saw. Either that or they were pricing a private lesson or rental/lesson/ticket and maybe lodging combo... or are just a liar.

[@s81n]

@@Nomer77 it is absolutely true. You need to wait until the season starts and check again in the same month you want to go. You will see those prices on Saturdays and Sundays.

[@Nomer77]

@@s81n Big Sky surge prices tickets? No where on the internet I can find backs this up. It is expensive, yes. And they've done shady things with having to pay extra for tram access over the years (including with tram access for different tiers of season passes). But they do not have the most expensive lift ticket in North America (this very channel covers such a topic pretty regularly as does a lot of online ski media). And that definitely don't charge over a grand for a single day ticket.

[@ktextreme]

Whister/Blackcomb just released the new price for a standard lift ticket this season of $330 CAD...FU Vail

[@9abuilder]

Ouch!

[@JAlexLP]

The pricing is set to disincentivize everyone from buying a day ticket and motivate people to buy a season pass, which is a pretty good deal actually.

[@fandam801]

It’s a product that is technically not made to buy.

[@AO-uc7zq]

Unrestricted day passes are starting at $151 CAD if you buy by 11/17/24.

[@ktextreme]

@@AO-uc7zq I have an Edge card, I'm good. Good luck to anyone who doesn't!

[@Burbs1976]

$230 for a lift ticket here in Australia. Epic pass is $1000 You can do it cheap if you are willing to do day trips ( I live 2 hours away) and share travel costs with friends. But if you want to take a family to the snow for a weekend, hire some stuff, lessons, eat and drink you will need to drop $4k

[@barrydworak]

And you're not going to do that unless you're wealthy AND you already know how to ski reasonably well. They can cash in on existing enthusiasts, but the next generation of skiers will not exist.

[@Giffandy5329]

As a passholder in the Northeast, I think my biggest criticism is that they don't spend the money on snowmaking and operations. Especially for the front half of the season last year conditions were pretty terrible for natural snow. Wildcat/Attitash were pretty much limited to a single top to bottom trail until MLK day. Sunday River about 30 minutes to the east was at about 100 trails in that window, exclusively on the back of snowmaking, despite suffering catastrophic flood damage in December. Even when it finally snowed, the man-made base (or lack thereof) made a huge difference in conditions. I also skied Vail last year on a non-powder day last year. The groomed terrain was very limited and and congested like an interstate highway. The off-piste was packed out and pushed up to about where you expect without fresh snowfall. Overall pretty disappointing.

[@NortheastExploration9712]

Vails lack of care for the north east is one of the reasons why I stopped buying epic passes.

[@Giffandy5329]

@MountainMan9712 yeah, I wouldn't have picked one up this year except I ski 2-3 days in Colorado with a friend who moved to Denver. My local group also booked at an epic mountain. The way they set it up I can't just buy 3 Days at the new England rate and 3 Days at the CO rate (2x the price). You have to buy all 6 days at the highest rate, and at that point the "epic local" pass is only an extra $100 for unlimited East Coast with no blackouts except Stowe.

[@davelavigne2133]

16M of vails visitors were actually at vail on Saturdays

[@watermelontreeofknowledge8682]

Facts

[@gregorychristensen5165]

I’ve seen vids of lift lines, I’m not envious.

[@diver3444]

There are still plenty of mom and pop ski areas around for an affordable no bs skiing. They may not be mega hills but they generally wont have mega lift lines either if u can avoid weekends and other peak days. I refer skiing at ikon/epic resorts as urban skiing.

[@Bozopack]

Not really. Its still like 600-700 for a pass to a single mountain

[@diver3444]

@@Bozopackmaybe somewhat true out west for a pass but the if u just ski occasionally there are areas that will save u money for day tickets like sunlight powderhorn ski cooper etc but not true in the east. Where u can buy day tickets for $100 or less.

[@Bozopack]

@@diver3444 100$ for a day ticket is insane. What do u think im gonna spend 10000$ on lift tickets for the year?? No. Am i going to spend 100 days at a single east coast mountain?? No.

[@nickthewilson]

I live in Ohio, mad river is my closest resort. I go out of my way to go to the family owned mountain a bit more north because vail has made the prices unreasonable to ski/snowboard in Ohio. 80 dollars for a day pass in Ohio where the elevation is

[@michaelalan1270]

Every resort they bought, the prices went sky high. I quit skiing a few years ago because the value wasn't there. $150-$200 for a lift ticket and you spend half the day (6 hours) in lines. Food is out of the question.

[@joesmith-m9l]

Great.

[@napoland9676]

When Vail bought Stevens Pass in WA state, day ticket prices went way up, service went waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy down. I began boycotting their resorts and now ride at a locally owned mountain. I couldn't be happier.

[@KSThumper]

@@napoland9676 crying from outside the club

[@teacherguy5084]

@@KSThumper The locally-owned mountain is way better, probably just a 30-minute longer drive. I won't mention it by name so it stays less crowded.

[@KSThumper]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@teacherguy5084 i ski weekdays so crowds arent really a problem. i enjoy the local hills but there isnt enough variety for 70-100+ ski days, and buying 3 passes aint it.

[@jasongonzalez7409]

I am a veteran. My wife and I get the Epic Veteran Pass for $550 (give or take). We get unlimited access to all Vail Resorts. We can’t beat that. People need to get a season pass of some sort. I would say you need to go a minimum of ten times. Just my thoughts.

[@MomentswithDavid]

Veteran here too. It’s a great price but doesn’t matter when the lift line is 30 minutes long. Too many people. Backcountry is the move

[@skiliftguy4181]

Wow. I don't know where Vail is going with this, but the big decrease in upgrading lifts has raised a lot of questions. As an Utah local, I am happy they are upgrading Sunrise, but seeing Vail's downgrade in lift upgrades is a bit dissapointing, especially for many areas needing upgrades. Alterra on the other hand is on a mad dash with installing almost 10 lifts in 2 years at Deer Valley, alone and is now the big ringleader in lift upgrades along with Boyne.

[@usa91787]

I haven't skied in 30 years. It just got too expensive. I live in the Midwest and after living and skiing in Idaho when I was in the USAF it was really difficult to find good skiing here. I tried but got bored in about a half hour. I could drive 4 to 6 hours and ski the U.P. of Michigan but between gas, hotel, and luft tickets that would be once a year. I can't imagine a family of 4 trying to get into skiing.

[@georgeg.7124]

Didn't watch the whole video but the first half made me think of Disney. Crowded lifts make for bad experiences, so if you can raise the price, lose some customers but still gain in revenue and income while delivering a better product (less crowded lifts), companies consider this a win.

[@CrimsonLegacy]

I think you're right. I haven't been to Disneyland since I was a kid and don't feel the need to ever go back, so it's weird hearing people who go on complaining about how expensive Disney is now and how crowded it is, yet it seems like they feel COMPELLED to go there regardless, as if it's a requirement to make the Hajj to the Mecca of Disney World/Land every few years. I got this video as a random recommendation as a non-skiier: I'm just someone who likes learning about how businesses are run. With that said, I'm glad to see many of those in the comments here showing a different attitude, refusing to go to Vail resorts and opting to instead visit independently run ski resorts who still offer their customers value.

[@anthonyc8499]

Skiing in the USA is both crazy crowded and unaffordable. I don’t understand how there are so many rich people on the mountain.

[@TFRLIceman]

Only if you are going Epic or iKon. The indie places are still affordable.

[@edwardmitchell564]

Vail Resorts has completed syphoned the soul out of ski towns across the world

[@fixnkev]

I lived in Vail from '70-'76 and as student, my ski pass was $25 A YEAR! It went up to $40 ~'74. Had lots of good times and memories, but I'd never live there again, even if I could afford it.

[@MrTCFIRE]

Heard recently, "skiing has never been more affordable and less accessible for most people." Walk-ups are ridiculous, but there are always people willing to pay for the day...pretty wild stuff

[@TrendyStone]

I don't know if they are done...but Vail Resorts ruined Park City Utah after acquiring it. It's a great mountain but they cut the maintenance staff dramatically to improve profitability and the lifts are always breaking down. That means entire sections of the mountain closed, the best terrain unavailable after a snowstorm and the chance you'll get stuck on a broken lift which happened to us twice! Sitting up in the air for >1 hour in a snowstorm with your kids is not a great experience. And during covid it was the only resort in the state of Utah that required you to show proof of vaccination just to enter a lodge/restaurant. No other resort in the state of Utah engaged in this Colorado virtue signal stupidity. We now buy a season pass to Snow Basin and a haven't looked back.

[@Rob-me8vp]

The question becomes how many new skiers are added to the industry every year. I volunteered at a small mountain on the east coast as an ambassador and that was what they were concerned about. Years ago snowboarding saved the ski industry bc it added new people to the mountain. Now with ticket prices so high, families don’t try skiing bc there are so many other cheaper options.

[@Bluebottlenose]

Yes and I will be watching from the sidelines with a big tub of popcorn🍿

[@bradlyscotunes9156]

In 1966 Mission Ridge opened 12 miles from Wenatchee, WA. East (dry) side of Cascades. It was $5/day, $100-ish for year pass. Huge area with 2000+ ft.vertical, no lift lines, 300 days of sunshine. Skied every weekend all season. + Lots of good tiny local ski hills in NorthWest. Those were the days..

[@telescopic_]

I have been an epic pass holder for a decade and i was somewhat happy with it. Until last year when they de-prioritized terrain park facilities around the country. Some of the most iconic parks in the country were neutered to 1/3 of their size/amount of features.

[@TheSputniikbiet]

Black rock of skiing and winter sports

[@marcusharrigan6879]

I've transitioned from mostly downhill to mostly XC skiing. Cost and lines are now avoided.

[@steven2145]

They have no significant model for growth other than raising prices and accretive acquisitions. That is not a stock to buy.

[@newlifelodge]

Haha. $950 for unlimited at Vail, Beaver, Keyster, Breck, Park City. No way I don’t buy that every year for every family member

[@CoasterRanger]

This is good information! I follow business and the stock market closely and I just wanted to add a couple things. -The stock price chart looks similar to a lot of other companies: gains in Q2 2020-2021 and then down/sideways in 2022-2023. Vail is significantly behind the market in 2024, which has performed well. -Weather is a lousy excuse companies use for bad fiscal results, although accurate in this case. FY23 saw huge snow totals in most regions and FY24 was possibly the worst the company has seen. I was at Northstar in March 2023 and the outside deck on the highest lodge was closed because it had 18 ft of snow on it that couldn't possibly be moved anywhere. -The sky is not falling for this company, although this doesn't feel like a buying opportunity to me either.

[@creekboi7]

It could just be the Ski industry as a whole. I don’t ski but i have noticed insane deals from Evo, trying to still offload last seasons gear.

[@Soprema667]

Thats normal thing at this time of year

[@creekboi7]

@ not usually. They come off sale before the resorts start opening up so they can bring prices back down on black Friday. At least thats what happens with snowboards.

[@thelonewolf2288]

When I first started skiing Vail ( you better sit down for this ) a day lift ticket was $9.00. We thought that was outrageous then. Please the world needs the 70's back again. It was a fabulous time of sanity.

[@teacherguy5084]

If ski tickets inflated per the Consumer Price Index (CPI) from 1971, those tickets would be about $60 today.

[@Cucumberflavoredmustard]

I lived there for a couple seasons in the 90s. An entire season pass was $400. There was a Chinese joint in town where you could get lunch for $7.

[@thelonewolf2288]

@@Cucumberflavoredmustard I hear you. I long for those times again. I bet you had a great time ! There is nothing like the Colorado Mountain Lifestyle. Blessings !

[@jakubgotowicki273]

As a European who has had the privilege to ski some of Europe's biggest and best resorts (3 Valleys, Tignes-Val D, Val Gardena) it shocks me to hear when people in US pay 300, 350 Dollars PER DAY!!. Often in Europe, you can buy a hotel + ski pass for the whole week for 400-600 Euros/person for a 4-6 people apartment during peak season in resorts like Val Thorens. The fact that Vail is failing (or atleast I hope it is) makes me very happy and hopefully a step in the right direction to get rid of greed that is taking over skiing (which is already an expensive hobby).

[@jimmyisawkward]

Publicly traded companies ruin everything… they are legally required to squeeze as much money out of its operations as possible just for some rich investors.

[@Benzknees]

Only if they are allowed to squeeze out competition.

[@jimmyisawkward]

@ It gives them every incentive to do that.

[@Benzknees]

@@jimmyisawkward - Of course, and the incentive for regulators to stop them doing so.

[@jimmyisawkward]

@ yeah, that just creates incentives for corporations to corrupt the government to reduce regulations.

[@keno1069]

Forget Vail. I spent a winter there, and I was so disappointed. Everything about that place is wrong. I have no idea why people ski there. I’ll never return. Go cross country skiing, and then none of this will matter to you, either.

[@chadlucier]

Before watching this video, this is my take. Skiing has historically been an elite sport. Meaning the wealthy had access while most others did not. In the 90's and early 2000's it became much more accessible. Big Money saw more people and thought more profit, but they in turn pushed out a lot of their target sales. Here is where I think the real problem is, though. Skiing historically survived catering to the elite. However, there was still a local population that played a role, even if 10/15% that is a huge margin. Big Money has looked past this demographic, thinking they can just transport workers seasonally. But it's not just the workers, if locals stop going to the cafeteria, the apres and bars. If they simply ski their one season pass, that is a huge amount of loss. Then the vibe gets all wacky and if you're not a lifer at that mountain... you move. That's my thoughts. Can't wait to see what yours are! Happy trails!

[@dwormon4591]

We used to train the kids on the sport but it's not feasible anymore so sad.

[@user-id8ng9eq9h]

I make a decent living and have been skiing for 50 years.....I would and will NEVER pay that much for a ski pass. Maybe my skiing days are over for me and my family. Its fun...but simply not worth it.

[@DD-sr9xm]

The European product is far superior. Cheaper. Better food on the mountain. Better party in town. Newer lifts and better lift systems. Equally good skiing. East Coast skiers will eventually realise a ski trip to France/Austria/Switz is far superior to the Rockies and only an extra 2 hours of travel.

[@DerekGibson-p4h]

shhhhhhh!!! Dont't tell them !!! lol

[@shaunbava1801]

I've been doing that for over a decade, don't let the secret out but it is a lot more than 2 hours of travel. Flight time to Zurich or Geneva is generally 7 hours+, Colorado is 3.5 hours and plane flights are far more expensive especially post pandemic. Lift systems are a wash, lots of trams in Europe leads to large lines, food is definitely better in France, Austria and Switzerland is kind of a wash unless you are eating cafeteria food in which case those are better in Europe but food and drink is way cheaper in Austria no matter where you go. The big thing for me besides lift tickets was the lodging which is a bit more reasonable but even Euro skiing has seen huge price increases a decade ago the biggest resorts were like 45 euro for a day ticket ski school was and remains so much cheaper and I heard from my friend who came with us last time it was very good. Snow is also dodgy in the Alps so you might go in feb and get 60 degree weather and spring conditions so Utah is more snow sure.

[@Nomer77]

The off piste setup is different in Europe, the avalanche mitigated/controlled terrain is just mostly on piste stuff. That'd be boring AF for a lot of Americans given what they are used to. You could go off piste of course, but that is effectively backcountry skiing and most American skiers aren't avy trained or carrying safety gear. If you've already paid for a pass in the US most of the cost savings disappear. Lodging might be a bit cheaper depending where and when you go. The European experience is much more of a "holiday experience", America/Canada is still about the actual skiing. The ski schools/lessons are much cheaper and it is typically a better option for families or bad/newbie skiers. Though I am always amused how many American adults remark on the cheap ski schools but regard it as glorified childcare and never seem to envision they take a lesson themselves 😂

[@shaunbava1801]

@@Nomer77 it depends on where. In lot of resorts of piste is not permitted but you can go, avalanche risk is often very low because there isn’t so much snow. You can definitely go “off piste” and do slack country skiing but there is a risk of fines and getting your ticket clipped. Not many people go off piste and there is zero effort from the resorts to map or mark hazards. The style of skiing over there is different. Some resorts do allow it with a trained guide which is advisable. If you are just going for the skiing it’s hard to beat Utah. If skiing is just part of the experience Europe delivers more for lower price. As compared to a week at vail with spas and fine dining you can get better food and fancy spa resorts in Switzerland or France or Austria for half the price and it’s even more pronounced for those wanting private lessons.

[@Nomer77]

@@shaunbava1801 agreed. Europe offers a much more latchkey experience that is better for many holidaymakers and families/casual groups. There are definitely resorts in Austria or parts of Andermatt (now Vail Resorts owned) that have expert natural terrain that is marked on maps and somewhat mitigated (the marking of hazards will always be less than America though ha). Many Americans who ski black and double blacks out west would know little of backcountry safety and wouldn't have the required insurance though. Plus the presence of tons of glaciers in Europe immediately adjacent or even with ski resorts create dangers that do not exist in 99% of America and most of Canada. Europe definitely goes all in on selling the "package holiday" too in a way America does not, which makes skiing much more realistic as a lower middle class (a distinct thing in someplace like the UK in a way it is not in the US) or ever working class holiday (though ski holidays will still be stereotyped as ostentatious and middle class). Outside of cruises and Disney World I think Americans are less likely to buy or seek out package trips than Europeans, partly because our destination resorts are more remote and our infrastructure sucks (and partly because we value self-reliance and individual choice/customization much more). Europeans also have a culture where people are much more willing to pay guides than Americans are. I'm acquainted with a lot of mountain/climbing/skiing guides/services and the difference between the support and consumer demand for the industry in the US and Europe is night and day. In the US guides/instruction tends to be something only beginners pay for. I've seen Swedes go to Kicking Horse or Revelstoke and pay a guide hundreds of dollars to bring them around the mountain and show them the best powder stashes and lines after a storm. I've almost never seen a North American advanced/expert skier pay for that sort of thing.

[@The_Blessed_Cowboy]

The average cost of weekend skiing in Canada... Lift tix: $400 Hotel: $500 Food: $250 $1150/person/weekend, not including fuel.

[@GwenGreenberg]

Perhaps they should use the Netflix model. Keep lift prices low but stream ads while riding the lifts 😢

[@ErikPelyukhno]

These prices are wild. Growing up in Portland Oregon, since I owned my own gear and could drive up for night ski and bring my own meal, the whole trip would cost ~$50.

[@PowderLlamma]

It’s not a drop in skier numbers….day lift tickets cost over $200, whereas a season pass cost $1000…anyone buying a pass will already have gear and the occasional skier won’t go too many days for that price. Thus, the rental market will struggle. As food, lodging, and other expenses continue to go sky high, many people will pack lunch and I personally use a generator for heat and sleep in my SUV. I try my best not to spend a penny at Vail, Breckenridge, etc. That said, when I ski a small place (cooper, monarch, sunlight) I get a room nearby and I eat out locally. If people come with a strict budget, then high lift ticket prices are just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[@anthonysears871]

"Vile resorts" ruined the industry! If they go under, best thing that could happen! They treat employees like crap! And it's worth your life to ski or ride on their over crowded runs!

[@MarcoFD]

the ski holiday market is sadly shifting in a direction where only the richest people can affort to go, and they dont need to rent their gear so the first 2 numbers in the video makes sense and coralate with eachother.

[@jameszeng2666]

It's not just Vail, companies across the US is laying off people left right and center... winter is comming

[@bearclaw5115]

Yes, companies are always laying off AND hiring. Nothing new here.

[@teacherguy5084]

Vail is unusually rapacious.

[@andymeyer9876]

I work at a Vail resort. A smaller one. We have about 5 lifts that are reaching the end of their life.

[@halfcabking]

Once they can't buy anymore, they better start to think about retention rates and treating employees better .

[@jax-sx9pk]

Wow! Glad this showed up in my feed. Nice dissection :) I live at a non-vail resort that is not publicly traded and I suspect something similar is taking place at this resort, also. In 2022, a burger at the resort owned cafeteria was $15 CAD. It shot up to $25 CAD the following year. And, that doesn't include cafeteria fries. With fries and tax, the price tops just over $30 CAD. It also seems the resort is no longer struggling to recruit staff, which was a major problem from 2020-23. Rents are still high, but the resort owns and controls most staff housing, so that is not a surprise.

[@kevinbonstar1426]

$1500 for a day of ski school!?? My kid better be Shaun White by sunset

[@jdub1392]

I remember buying a season pass at Kirkwood for that price 20 years ago. The whole industry is in the garbage because of price gouging. Corporate greed is ruining this country on every level.

[@SARGEinc]

There's an annual ski and snowboard swap sale in my hometown, and it made me think about getting back into skiing. Then realized I was way too broke to get back into such an expensive hobby.

[@touge242]

An identical dollar number in years of massive inflation is a decrease of real revenue

[@frankcarriere869]

Vail resort announced 2% of their staff will be laid off in the next 2 years. It is a horrible place to work as a manager. Top leadership has no clue what they are doing and are wanting managers to figure things out with no direction. Disappointing that they are laying off due to AI job takeovers, instead of having a better business plan. Vail resorts is far from sustainable. Employees are the most valuable resource and they are pushing their best employees out due to these horrible changes.

[@bearclaw5115]

Maybe their management is too big. Any smart company self-corrects. Maybe they are wrong too and will have to later add more employees.

[@timothylynch937]

My local northeast mountain season pass is over $1000. I buy an epic pass and ski around the world. The daily everywhere is insane.

[@puregsr]

Here in the Pacific Northwest, they can pretty much charge whatever they want and people will still come. This is still chump change for people with disposable income.

[@Peachypupp]

So glad my family got to experience this before it got out of hand…. They’ve lost me as a customer

[@tyb3938]

Corporations like vail resorts has us no longer skiing. Way too crowded, who wants a Disney world experience on the mountain? Not me

[@duggydo]

I used to love skiing. I will never go again though. It’s too expensive. I can easily afford it, but I won’t give these crooks a penny.

[@WTHenry2023]

Same

[@bradclifford295]

I remember going to Vail in 2004 and thinking $85 per day for a lift ticket was insane. Especially when everywhere else was $50-60. So mental what it is now.

[@rastan49]

Just like to add, Perisher Australia is seeing a new chair being installed now for the 2025 season. A 6 pack chair on Mt Perisher. It will take the crown from Thredbo being Australia's highest lifted spot. Also Australia Epic Pass went up, starting at $AUD 999 but since gone up like 50 bucks and they also introduced a 4 Day Pass for the 2025 season which is aimed at more price sensitive buyers.

[@GraftonPrimaryvideo]

The writings on the wall for Australian skiing which has always been marginal at best. I like their confidence in investing in lift infrastructure but Australia really has to be the bottom of priorities when you have seasons that ended like last one with the last month of winter practically being end of spring type conditions. Its shocking to me having lived near the mountains since the mid 80s just how few proper cold outbreaks and fronts come through in winter now. They would be totally screwed without snowmaking

[@Mmm-y5w8o]

Yer when is Thredbo giving us the bell might go pick it up this weekend And yes last season was not the best But it started well and I still got some great days in Yer maybe climate change will destroy skiing but I’m making the most of it

[@rastan49]

@@Mmm-y5w8o I bet you, they wont even allow you to take the chair. You'll have to lug it down the hill or just drag it via Kosci.

[@michaelpw97]

This channel gets better and better

[@coltruger2553]

Vail….. never again!

[@martinflaherty7755]

I didn't know you had it in you! Excellent breakdown, I love it. Good skier and with numbers. wow. Do one on Powdr now. I used to work for them as an instructor at Mt. Bachelor. Thanks for your videos, very entertaining.

[@PeakRankings]

Unfortunately the other mega corps don’t release their financials publicly, but we’re thinking about highlighting why Powdr is selling off so many resorts!

[@leslas5747]

Corporate greed kills companies and ruins everything.

[@kurtcorbin5596]

About 30 years ago the saying (meme today): Crusty Butt (Crested Butte), what Telluride used to be, what Aspen never was. They all are Aspen now.

[@mtech101]

I'm purposely avoiding Vail resorts for all ski vacations. I can only spend 1 week a year for a Ski vacation and the same day lift ticket or multi days are way to expensive. I can't Ski enough to get a Epic pass, so I just avoid them all together.

[@bayclubdevelopment6646]

As a long term Epic holder in the Tahoe area I’ve seen a decline in the infrastructure and maintenance to buildings or the lack there of.. as a contractor in the Bay Area their buildings are worn down and the Lifts. Kirkwood is my goto hill. Heavenly 2nd. Now with the advent of pre paid parking and reservations it’s ruined the spontaneous day trip to the mountain on the weekend. When the Pow Pow is low it’s the locals and faithful that keep you afloat during low pow storms. With parking reservations and fees they have ruined it and it’s all a money grab now. While I can afford it , it’s just a bad squeeze of all of us. KW is the red headed stepchild of Vail and hasn’t got anything new in 10 years and longer. The roads and buildings are run down and crap. While they have the Epic trackers at each lift. The hand wands that these lift employees assault you with are terrible. They really want that ping and almost hit you with these wands or guns to get that ping. While I love the power pow you can see the money grab by Vail each year and their product is dying on the vine.

[@Zeethos]

@@bayclubdevelopment6646 the paid parking is only weekends and peak days at Kirk… not exactly spontaneous day trip days.

[@williba24]

Skiing mostly at Beaver Creek, Vail tops, EPIC lift pass is the reason Vail is in trouble, most skiiers want a lift pass for one or two weeks, in the local area not the worlds resorts.

[@MRey-t9u]

For all the hype that it gets, vail is surprisingly lackluster in my opinion and it rocked by horrible traffic and long lines. Tbh, please skip these resorts they are just ruining the mountains.

[@WTHenry2023]

Vail has a huge footprint BUT it is the worst laid out mountain I have ever skied. It takes many different lifts to get to where I want to go. I have skiied Vail once . 1 and done! Beaver Creek is a great slope and laid out much better.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

I watch this from the eyes of someone who decided some years ago to go from a 25+ yrs Alpine skier to exclusively cross country ski, no more alpine ski trips 😅

[@reedheil1353]

alterra and the introduction of the ikon pass in '18-19 completely changed solitude and traffic in big cottonwood canyon forever. used to have a season pass at solitude for at least 10 years but stopped that after '22-'23. i'm a backcountry splitboarder so in bcc quite a bit but you gotta get there early or its too late, and getting out of that canyon is no treat. i can only ski silverfork from the bcc side on mon-thur because they charge you for parking on the road outside of solitude fri-sat-sun. that was new last year along with not letting you park on the road outside of spruces trailhead. heard alterra bought a-basin so ikon and paid parking this year. they're gonna hate that shit. will be interesting to see how that place changes. it's a shame b/c it has such a cool vibe.

[@CptFOff]

I work at a low profile ski resort that still has not been sucked into this black hole of corporate greed and though it may be a matter of time, its videos like this that kinda bring a better and more positive light to what happens when you own to manny resorts and find an uneven expectation of profits that you out price the people that don’t have a lot of money to join your resort.

[@RackTheMilesWelding]

It is a shitty time for those newer skiiers and boarders trying to get involved more or who are returning to the sport after a super long time like me.

[@thedownwardmachine]

Me and the wife going skiing can easily drop a grand. Not including lodging or food, that's just lift, rentals, and maybe a lesson. I used to go a few times a year, more recently I might go once. I'll probably stop going altogether. Just not worth it.

[@DASDmiser]

A skiing vacation is cheaper in Europe (or Japan) than at the big resorts in USA and Canada. Airfares, about equal in price (with European destinations frequently cheaper). Car rental? Cheaper in Europe (fuel frequently more expensive Europe). Lodging? Much better deals in Europe for a 1 week stay walking distance to a lift--and European lodging usually includes breakfast. Dining? A cheese burger and fries at a typical North American ski cafeteria costs more than a meal served at the table slope side at a European ski area. Lift tickets? That one day lift ticket price at Vail will just about buy a week's worth of world class skiing (with as little as 24 hour advanced purchase) in Europe or Japan. Ski equipment rental run about ½ price. And in Europe, the price you see is the price you pay!

[@Cucumberflavoredmustard]

A customer pool that can afford $300 lift tickets is limited. While the rich get richer, they still only take up one space on a chairlift.

[@CleverAccountName303]

That is why everyone buys a season pass which is what they are incentivizing you to do.

[@Cucumberflavoredmustard]

@@CleverAccountName303 There are some mixed messages there. It used to be you could buy a season pass right up until the end of February. Now, the window closes on Labor Day for the upcoming season.

[@aaallll202]

I actually don’t mind vail resorts as the give me a deal out west to ski for $100 a day now that I’m writing this I realize that it is ridiculous to ski anywhere for $100 a day

[@IQFREAKY]

Bro saw the light mid-sentence

[@kaseyburleson]

The hardest thing to understand on pricing is the price for lessons.

[@BenNSyder]

I live nest to PCMR Vail will always be around, as long as we allow them to charge $42 for a frozen patty cheeseburger fries and coke. Its like eating at the airport or disney, you have no choice but to bring sandwiches of you rown and buy a 20 oz soda for $7

[@Seektruth-59]

There are plenty of much better resorts in Europe and cheaper even with the airfare.

[@cyberdog4453]

Feel sorry for my American cousins. Greedy corporations have made skiing in the states ridiculously high. How can they justify charging four times as much as a top French resort like Val d isere for a weeks ski pass?

[@Zeethos]

@@cyberdog4453 because we can just buy dirt cheap season passes or epic day passes. Anyone getting scammed by same day lift prices only needs to do the smallest bit of research

[@wallyballou7417]

For all the hate of Vail, the Epic pass is actually a pretty good deal if you ski regularly (6-10+ days a year). The walk up prices are ridiculous to be sure, but almost nobody pays those rates. Skiing’s always been expensive and it obviously costs a lot to run a ski area, but I feel like skiing is still a pretty decent value compared to Disneyland, a cruise or a lot of other tourist attractions. Think about the price of things like a zip-line ride, horseback riding, boat rental, etc. Everything’s expensive! Vail is also known for recruiting veterans and the employees I’ve interacted with have been on the ball and generally helpful.

[@joesmith-m9l]

20 ski days is $50 ski day with an epic pass.

[@KSThumper]

@@wallyballou7417 people would rather wait until a week before their trip to buy passes then blame vail like there wasnt a 4 month sale in the summer

[@9abuilder]

5 days on the mountain and your "Local Pass" is paid for.

[@teacherguy5084]

Reports are they pay their instructors about 10 to 15% of the ski school revenue. It's essentially a purely labor business - no cost of materials - so profit margin after managers is likely 75%, or 5 to 7 times direct labor. That's unconscionable. I've heard Aspen used to pay twice as much of the revenue to instructors, don't know if it's true.

[@Cucumberflavoredmustard]

@@teacherguy5084 They even make the instructors buy their own uniforms. I don't know how they get away with that. Typically if the company name or logo appears on the garment, the employer must foot the bill.

[@vonsigler5596]

Vail acquired Mt. Brighton in Michigan. Went from a nice, affordable, family owned operation to an expensive abomination. It’s not a great hill to begin with, and Vail put the screws in the casket.