Is Wild Assault TOO Good In Guilty Gear Strive?

[@zenheretic]

also, gold burst was arguably buffed this patch. its -2 on block so unpunishable (it used to be -10) and positive bonus might actually be stronger than getting 100 meter instantly on account of getting 200 meter over time, regenerating burst gauge much quicker, and some characters have or had infinite blockstrings in positive (chipp comes to mind)

[@z1u512]

Its TECHNICALLY punishable, you just gotta instant block it point blank and you can grab them

[@benfish3406]

I like wild assault, it’s very fun and satisfying to use at a casual level. But I do feel like it has a few too many benefits. If they were to remove one aspect of it, I would remove the positive bonus Gained from wall breaks with it tbh.

[@eatbass8055]

Then no one would ever use it to break the wall because the positive bonus from a normal wallbreak is much more valuable than a hard knockdown

[@lot8113]

Maybe you're referring to the hard knockdown part, cos the positive bonus happens for all wallbreaks

[@benfish3406]

@@lot8113 yes my bad that’s what I meant

[@benfish3406]

@@eatbass8055 I meant the hard knockdown my bad bro

[@adreel8701]

i specifically think orange wa is a problem, it makes corner carries and wall breaks too easy which is a huge problem when it gives hard knockdown and positive bonus in a season where positive bonus is even more powerful than ever

[@z1u512]

I feel like its fine on some characters, like axl and johnny, when their damage is already pretty low and/or have pretty bad conversions, but on characters like sol that shit feels busted

[@Himbologist]

​@@z1u512Axl's damage is low? Could've fooled me doing 75% off 1 bomber loop lmao

[@zeawing6022]

​@@z1u512that's kinda their drawback, especially Johnny. He only needs 1 rrc or wild assault to go wall to wall so he can wall break from pretty much anywhere at almost any time. So one of his biggest weakness is now nullified

[@z1u512]

​@@Himbologisthow many times do you see pro axl getting a chance to do bomber loops vs how many times did you see sol doing 70% off one combo

[@emsax]

Agree with the strength of Wild Assault. Disagree with your opinion on Gold burst, its a free safe on block reversal for the entire cast - this is gigantic for characters like HC who has no access to reversals, or Nago who only has a reversal using tension. Not to mention gold burst's risk/reward is crazy. On hit you get 50 tension and 50 burst, not to mention the new methods of getting burst meter meaning you have burst sometimes multiple times a round. (Both sides get it from wallbreaks)

[@Dridentz]

the fact you feel gold burst is a defensive mechanic is very alarming

[@neminem233]

"If everyone's broken, no one will be"

[@tangramman]

WA is great, but the HKD after a wall break is probably too good; it should just be a way to take away your opponent's Burst while extending combos. Saving Tension in exchange for Burst is too powerful, like other commenters pointed out, it's like FRC using a different meter. But DS should be way better and much easier to use. WA is just instinctual: you convert into it as soon as you see you hit, with *anything* ! The level of awareness you need compared to DS is too out of sync. I would make Deflect Shield destroy projectiles *and* expand the shield greatly *while* cleansing you of any status effects (Chaos Curse, Testament Stain, etc.); considering how easy WA is to use, DS should be as easy. Certain blockstrings can just entirely ignore the mechanic, even if you use it correctly (e.g. if you DS Bed's c.S, 2S or 2H will almost always catch you afterwards anyways). DS just needs a buff and it'll become an actual decision to use Burst meter as opposed to now, which is just ... use WA, at all possible times.

[@zachstarattack7320]

dont buff DS, itll be hated, just nerf wild, doesnt need hkd

[@legodawg2001]

What interests me with this patch is I SEE how they wanted to balance Wild Assault. Look at White and Blue Wild Assault. They're very strong, but they're not causing one touch to wall combos on most characters. Characters like Bedman? and Nago got White Assault for QOL stuff, but it doesn't morph their gameplan into something that breaks the game. Blue Wild Assault is on a case by case basis as well. Characters like Baiken and Bridget feel miffed at Blue Wild Assault, because it makes Bridget have to commit resource for her mixups, and Baiken STILL can't combo off of fS (to the point its almost comedic). Characters that would benefit the most from Blue Wild Assault like Zato got GUTTED, while characters that struggle to use it like Asuka and Millia got character specific cancels that let them cancel some of their specials into Wild Assault (and even then, its not CRAZY for Asuka, just wall break QOL). Happy Chaos is Happy Chaos, I still think balance for that character is a work in progress (With Season 1 zoning and all). What really concerns me is ORANGE Wild Assault. Orange Wild Assault is absolutely morphing the game around it rn. On paper, it should be the WA that gives harder to convert characters or committal characters some conversions. Axl, Ky, Sol, Sin, Testament, Anji, I don't think anyone is complaining about those characters getting Orange Wild Assault. A character like Ky is currently dominating with Orange Wild Assault, but I think that character deserves it after being a patch behind for most of Season 2 (same with Sin). But some characters, like Ram or Chipp getting Orange Wild Assault feels like a lapse in judgement, because they are rich gets richer characters. I don't think the mechanic as it is right now is bad, maybe deleting burst on block is kinda dumb, but I don't hate it. I just think there are a few notable balancing errors on a character-by-character basis Also, Arc Sys is starting to feel the pains of some of their decisions. In S1 and S2, wall breaks were common, but not to every character, and a lot of characters wanted to not break wall with wall slumps. Positive Bonus was SIGNIFICANTLY buffed in this patch, because the timer now renews on every successful acquisition of it, making looping pressure a very real thing rn. PosBo giving damage and defense buffs doesn't help either. It feels like they liked how Nago played, wanted more characters to do that, and didn't realize the implications of such a choice. I also dunno how I feel about burst being a mechanic, since GG has historically been the game where resource is match dependent, but with how much characters like Ky rely on resource, im on an okay side with it

[@NonSequiturSnowman]

Haven't watched the video yet, and I'm pretty casual with Strive compared to other GG games (and haven't really followed discourse about WA) so I'm by no means an authority on anything, but I will say before I work through this whole video that this really seems like a Force Break situation from Accent Core all over again. Overdrives have always been a bit weak in GG compared to other ways you could use your meter, and I think I recall hearing Daisuke mentioned that FB's wouldn't come back because they were too powerful once. (Don't quote me on that, could be totally wrong) WA feels like they saw FB's and went "You know, we want to do this again but not downplay RC usage or overdrives. I know, lets tie it to burst instead." Sure, you avoided the problem of overshadowing RC's and overdrives, but instead now you've given everyone this insane kit where you can use BOTH RC and your burst meter for unbridled aggression and corner carry and have instead made WA/Deflect Shield overshadow burst. There's basically no reason to ever burst outside of hit-stun from what I can tell now. There's a particularly brutal snowball I see happening where Player A gets a random F.S poke and the only way for player B to not get taken to the corner and wall broken is to burst and use all their burst meter for having the gall to mess up a single footsie in neutral. (Edit: Part way through the video and realized you can't even burst it, which is arguably even worse) One of my favorite parts of GG has always been burst baiting, but it really feels like if you're bursting, you're playing to lose, and should instead be doing everything you can to get a stray hit and convert with WA before the other player. Alright off my soapbox, time to watch.

[@NonSequiturSnowman]

It's interesting to me how you compare and worry about the current potential gameplay loop of Strive to older GG's with their looping, frustrating (for some) oki, while I'm more iffy on WA because of how it overshadows older burst meter uses. Personally, my biggest gripe with Strive has always been the wall break mechanics. As long as breaking the wall is such a dominant strategy for nearly all of the cast, WA existing as it is will likely prove to be the dominant strategy. I never even thought about the similarities to older games until you mentioned it, but at this point, they might as well remove wall break entirely and just let you corner people like in every other GG, because in essence nothing has changed outside of your position on the screen.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

TBH I don't think wild assault should take the opponent's burst gauge at all. that's like making supers take away the opponent's meter, it does nothing but create snowballs that literally no one likes. I'm not sure on all the other properties but stealing burst is just terrible.

[@brutheguy2193]

What if they made it so you could instant dash after burst deflect to make comeback off a combo, similar to blitz without the free hit

[@sla113]

i like WA but I think it shouldn't drain burst on block

[@pian-0g445]

I think WR is really good, too good. My character (Ky) definitely benefits from it a lot and it makes him quite fun, but sometimes I feel like the universal tool (especially the orange version) has too much to it. It takes away burst even on block. It allows for extended combos and easy corner to corner. Allows for hardknock down. This isn’t necessarily bad but how Strive has been designed currently, it seems too strong that most of the cast can access. This could either be remedied by tweaking certain things, like no burst drain on block. Or no hardknock down etc. Or, increase the whole cast’s health to allow for their to be more interactions in the even of volatile rounds (which is a lot in strive). Another issue I have with WR is that it can almost negate the deflect shield. The defense option already isn’t something great, and now there’s a tool that can negate its effect?

[@nemuriyagi]

gold burst being -2 on block and giving you your burst back on hit is not bad, the mechanic is VERY good, it's just not immediately applicable like WA is to just about everyone

[@wootsavesyoutube]

I think it's fine other than that it gets rid of burst on block which is frankly just bs

[@hyunka2756]

I'm no pro but this mechanic has felt way overpowered from day 1, and I say this as a Ky player who benefits a lot from it. The worst part imo is how it restricts your opportunities to blue burst, so there's even more guaranteed damage now in a game which wasn't know for long rounds to begin with, and stray pokes have turned into wallbreak combos. Also the positive bonus + hkd on wall is nuts. One or the other please, as it is rn it has no downsides.

[@spicyluvsyou]

I love that it is a reliable way to deal with burst. This game has very little counterplay to the mechanic. It's typically wait till someone does something uncancelble. and if you don't have meter to rc for it get back to neutral. Little to no thought for a mechanic that can lead to someone's win condition on your offense no less.

[@ahola3208]

The only part of wild assault that I don't like is that it removes burst gauge on block, I can understand on hit so it can be used for burst safe combos but doing it on block just feels pointless.

[@Reitsuchi]

i don't know if it's because my timing is off, or if the buffer window is as tight as it feels, or if its not a true reversal, but i wish Deflect Shield was more usable on wakeup. that's the time i want to use it most and i've Always gotten blown up for trying; kachoufugetsu somehow feels so much more reliable

[@eatbass8055]

DS is kinda weak right now especially compared to WA, it only gets you out of like 50% of strings and moves with a bunch of forward momentum literally ignore it entirely

[@frobuddy8082]

Would be interesting to see which types of wild assaults are used/more useful than other. I would imagine the blue wild assault is the weakest/least impactful of the bunch

[@SolidFake]

It's pretty funny how they added something like the wallbreak to Strive, and then add Wild-assault that just completely locks you out of using one of the few mechanics that, as with wallbreak, is supposed to not get players be permalooped. Maybe they've seen the error of the ways, that they want to make a nasty game like any guilty gear and people will always find a way to find the most degenerate stuff and nothing will help new players getting bonked.

[@zachstarattack7320]

Wild assault shouldnt give hard knockdown on wallbreak, or it should remove the wallbreak damage if you break with it.

[@lionelsteele007]

Compared to other options that require half the burst bar, yes, Wild Assault is the best option by a pretty good margin. Honestly, Deflect Shield should probably only cost 1/4 of a bar [EDIT: For some characters]

[@zenheretic]

i don't really agree, deflect shield is still a very powerful option against characters that have good mix (millia and the new Johnny come to mind) and can bail you out when you're in a very tough mix situation

[@lionelsteele007]

@@zenheretic That's fine, I respect that opinion. But Deflect Shield is *HARDER* to use (you can be punished for a mistimed Deflect... Wild Assault is guaranteed additional damage once you have the combos down) and I believe that making Deflect Shield more cost effective will, at worst, make the game a little more defensive. IMHO, this is good thing given the high damage and rushdown-heavy design Strive has at its base.

[@The_Blazelighter]

I think the issue isn't DS being too weak, but rather WA being too strong

[@zenheretic]

@@lionelsteele007 i see where you're coming from, deflect shield is harder to use but I still think it's a perfectly good use of your 50 burst especially in certain matchups

[@lionelsteele007]

​@@zenheretic Absolutely. Should it cost *HALF* as much as Wild Assault? For characters like Anji and Potemkin, yes. For *EVERYONE,* that's pretty bold and is probably OP for zoners like Happy Chaos and Asuka where it's already tough to even get close enough to start attacking them for some characters and now they can just push you away for 25% of their Burst... which they'll probably build back up again as you struggle to get near them again...

[@GenericSoda]

What I've been seeing in regard to Gold Burst is that it's been buffed as a defensive mechanic since it's -2 on block now. Some characters also really want Positive, so a defensive Gold burst into Positive is a decent but niche option for characters like Chipp and Chaos.

[@nongmotrash]

idk about balance, but the gold burst changes just make it way less exciting in my opinion. its waaay lower risk and lower reward

[@nomynameisLarry]

yes

[@Ikenhauer]

I feel like some of this analysis fell victim to selection bias about Gold Burst specifically. Basically every other pro is whining about it.

[@shikileaks]

you've gotten less long-winded in your presentation from earlier content you made - good stuff.

[@oyoyoyo7624]

this is how an insecure person thinks being nice is supposed to sound

[@NukeDaHippies]

I've been watching ceotaku and while w wWild Assault is used alot i've seen all the others used alot. Gold Burst comes out very often. I've seen people steal games with a well timed deflect shield.

[@OccuredJakub12]

Let's not expect universal mechanics to patch up a game's balance, what they usually do instead is change the, well, universal meta of the game, which is important as well for the health of the game. Like, full-screen burst won't really nerf HC to the ground but it will change all long range combo and pressure interactions to ones that I personally feel are more favorable to the person Bursting, which is a good thing IMO because with the mechanics changes and just in general, Burst always had glaring issues and I think it's better now