Is Yoshimitsu S-Tier as some Think? | Tekken 8

[@Arnuld15Governator]

My biggest problem when people start bitching about tier list placement, they cry to Harada and the Namco balancing team with knee jerk reactions and they respond to the salt with nerfs because they don't want to lose players. Yes Yoshimitsu is strong in Tekken 8 and there is nothing wrong with that. Here's the reality of the situation: He's not winning any tournaments and you don't see usage of him as a top pick because he's a complex character. That is one of the biggest things I'm concerned about with the Tekken community with them fucking everything up. We have folks like Arslan Ash placing him in S tier, but if Yoshimitsu is not winning any tournaments and doesn't have higher pick rates along the professionals then why is that? Are all the professionals just sleeping on Yoshimitsu, or could it be that Arslan Ash does not want to see Yoshimitsu be strong and a threat to his status as a 5 time EVO champion?

[@thezs1832]

Well still waiting to see arslan pick yoshi as a side character when nina is nina imo there is no way he perform well with yoshi as he does with nina. Eyemusician is gonna start compete again soon so we will see his result.

[@stevenz6658]

Aged badly

[@thezs1832]

@@stevenz6658 he is not even 30 bro haha

[@stevenz6658]

@@thezs1832 you don't believe that

[@sleepenjoyer-on2dr]

​@@stevenz6658 Why did it age badly?

[@sleepenjoyer-on2dr]

Some things I wanna mention as a yoshi main regarding the cons: - he only has one power crush which is mid tier at best, that's part of the "tradeoff" for having flash if you will. He's actually rather similar to Bryan in that they're both more defensive characters that are harder to play, which is also the reason why Bryan too only has one power crush (which is completely unusable garbage). Considering how other characters have strong armor moves to boost up their mixups and unga bunga offense, this is a really overlooked contra on yoshi - Yes flash is very strong and useful but it's still risky, there are a lot of moves and strings that evade its range and punish you. Whenever I have a yoshi mirror it's actually pretty funny how predictable a lot of those flashes are bc as yoshis we all know the common frame traps and panic flashes. - his strings lack lows, it's mostly just high-mid pressure that is not very threatening to the opponent wheras other characters can knock you down if you dont block the low.

[@delusional-lobo]

exactly, and thank you for the additional information, I forgot to mention F4 👍🏼

[@sleepenjoyer-on2dr]

@@delusional-lobo one more thing regarding the pros: His 1,1 is really good and a big threat in heat mode. I honestly wouldn't mind if they nerfed that bc it really is ridiculous that it launches on counter hit during heat or nss.

[@delusional-lobo]

@sleepenjoyer-on2dr that would mean they'll also have to nerf d1 and df3,1 as well since they work the same way. I, for one, don't mind the Counter Hit as their are other characters with built-in counter hitting strings as well. Yoshi only has it in NSS or heat, so I think it's a good trade-off. If not then it should just full kd into a free cd1 or f1+2

[@sleepenjoyer-on2dr]

@@delusional-lobo I think it's just crazy that it's coming off of a single 10f jab on top of being safe on block, you can just kinda keep tapping it in heat and the opponent won't do shit bc he's afraid of getting ch. D1 and dd3,1 are harder to hit so I wouldn't change those. Considering how strong his defense and oki is I find it a bit too much to give him that type of upclose pressure especially bc he already has a safe launcher.

[@delusional-lobo]

@sleepenjoyer-on2dr but I think the trade-off makes sense if his neutral game was good. Df2 is great, but it's susceptible to ssr, including a lot of his other strings. There are several characters with better neutral while having a safe df2 launcher, like Paul, Asuka, Nina, Law, Lee, and so on (Law and Lee's having the shortest reach). So, I think it's fine to have these tools for his lack of neutral.

[@baphomet0w]

the samurai cutter hitbox makes me so fucking mad

[@TheGreatAustino]

Does the sword cut through both their legs? Yes. Does it still whiff? Also yes.

[@nimbusws2566]

@@TheGreatAustino Cut so clean even the hitboxes don't notice they've been sliced in half

[@rohailhaider-yt]

Well observed and well said. This is the reality about Yoshimitsu that people are unwilling to accept, they complain about flash and b+3. Not wondering what crucial and solid stuff Yoshimitsu is giving up in exchange for these tools. Your videos are amazing brother, Keep up the good work 👍

[@DBZFighters]

As a Yoshi main in T8, He has good range. Your Forward crouch into sword sweep or DF 1+3 really confuses my opponent. You helped me a lot with that one. Also, the DF 3 or 4, which gets your status to while rising, what a bait

[@thezs1832]

I kind of agree overall with you on your take, his sidestep is a fucking nightmare, litteraly at the start of the round you can see pretty much all character step df2 and if you try to do the same with all other char you get clipped by their df2. Same on the flash take imo, flash is a cheap move for sure but saying it's broken when if you don't use it only on guaranted flash you take the risk to get insta launch on whiff i mean most of the time you can hardly flash during the string of the opponent so you just guess he is gonna keep the pressure and even more some time flash doesn't even hit when he is still doing a move special thanks to xiao kit to mash and for some reason never get hit by the flash. In my case i even don't use flash that much except for guaranted flash just to tell the opponent he can't do that against me. Homing move are trash except dgf f1+2 or FC df4, and yeah FC df4 is a good low but it's still way slower than other char which have the same low like lars or victor sadly so you can mostly use it as a keep out move more than anti-step move. Overall yoshi don't have amazing +f move the only usable +f moves of the char are wr 3 or 3,1 which is duckable and any character which have ws i14 launch you can't really use 3,1 since it's frustrating to get float or launch just to get a fucking +f once. Yoshi litteraly pass his turn after pressing since most of his good safe move are between -6 and -9. A lot of character in T8 havepretty much infinite pressure you need to take risk to get out of pressure since otherwise their turn never end ( xiao/lars/dragu and other ) for exemple. Yoshi doesn't have dickjab in 1ss so he is pretty much stuck to flash or guess the high/low at the right timing i really don't count the number of round where i loose the round and got maybe my turn once or twice doing db4 lost my turn doing df2 lost my turn and then on their side i need to block like 10 move in a row to get a new turn and in those 10 move you have CH launcher and shit to extend this 10 move to 15 if you try to duck or anything. Everytime i play against yoshi i hardly have a hard time compare to many other char, yes i know the character and the frame but i do with other char and that doesn't change the fact that against a yoshi i can play the game, he want to flash sure bro flash if a yoshi flash in random moment he is just gonna get launch for free anyway. I think lobo did explain the pro of yoshi pretty well so let me yapp too

[@10FN0N3]

The only thing missing with Yoshimitsu is more high low attack patterns. After a couple rounds it’s easy to read what most Yoshimitsu players are gonna do. Plus it would be nice if we could get some plus on block attacks. Yoshimitsu when blocked is almost forced to block or end up in a guessing match after two or three attacks.

[@YoungWrld0]

@@10FN0N3 i hate how 3,1 is plus 7 so people can just jab u out of it

[@Sonofironlung]

​@@YoungWrld0Just gotta drop outta stance when you expect them to jab and you'll be able to block back into neutral

[@TCGArsenal]

no.. yoshi is already top 5 character in tekken 8 right now.. adding more to his moves will only make him broken~

[@10FN0N3]

@@TCGArsenal there are a multitude of characters that can attack damn near endlessly. Constantly staying in plus on block. Yoshimitsus mix up potential is no where near as good majority of the characters. I’m a Yoshimitsu main at battle ruler. He’s closer to top 10 not top 5

[@10FN0N3]

@@YoungWrld0 even on attacks that actually land. We as Yoshimitsus are somehow still negative. Example. Db 1, 2 we are still 0 on hit. Example. BT WS 2 is like minus 9 on hit. Us Yoshimitsu players really have to out smart ppl. Not do endless attack strings.

[@SewYa]

thx for these yoshi guides dude i dropped steve for yoshi and i found your guides really useful , was getting stepped like crazy i realised i need to use more homing moves but i agree the homing moces he has are just shit i just realised playing a friend how much ss works vs yoshi thx man this guide was great !

[@sparkymularkey6970]

Yoshimitsu has always been S tier in my heart.

[@nonoput]

For the guard break one, if there is no wall behind you, you can just press back and you will be fine. Even if there is a wall, you can still tech roll it at the last second (I havent truly tested it but my friend is most of the time able to tech roll it).

[@Nausicaa-oj1gf]

There are some setups where the opponent can't go back, but also ones where they can tech roll. Think I've seen a perfect setup video, but completely forgot what it is.

[@delusional-lobo]

The one showcased in the video df2 - flash- d2,2 hold back - d2,2,2 - KIN 2 (charged) 1+2. The opponent can't do any particular "get up" tech to beat this setup route. So they need to just take the hit grounded and then "get up".

[@nonoput]

@@delusional-lobo oh awesome, I will do this setup from now on then

[@artiomsepeli1200]

I think Yoshi is the only character in T8 that was re-designed not with T8's new aggressive concept. Even Jack and Bears got better treatment on this point. You can even be hit when you evade with b3, b4 by some moves, if you mentioned the bad side-steps. And also, I don't know why people complain on Yoshi's guard break setup, like he's the only one to have it. A lot of characters have it.

[@vainqueur2425]

lol

[@tibz7634]

Crazy how stupid your take is. Spoken like a true yellow rank

[@DeanofDeeps]

Here’s a weird take. I came from guilty gear and anything that is interact-able is basically immediately written off as a gimmick and is low tier. We react to 16-17 frames,but this is because the animation art is very different. After playing Yoshi alot I love the character, but his animations are very distinguishable from the cast. Like I can read a yoshi pretty well after playing him so much. I am convinced that this is one of the distinct differences between Tekken and other games. Differentiating between Nina’s moves and yoshis is like night and day

[@finnExterminatus]

At some point you have to realise, that you never ever will convince people away from their feelings. If people feel a character is busted, he is busted. And also you have the holy principle of „it is the character, NEVER the player.“ you saw that principle on display when PhidX managed to beat arslan ash offline. suddenly people said „yea, we always knew the character was a problem.“ absolute joke, noctis was so clearly weaker than a huge chunk of the cast, but remember, its always the character, never the player.

[@delusional-lobo]

True, it's like that one meme. "It is what it is"😂 kzbin.infoKpXsfimrkFo?si=O4qkigMryFISlOSo

[@solaswolfer1503]

in my opinion, those who say it's broken don't use it. I'm a Lee player and I've just started using it... and I have to say that I'm having a really hard time using it already in the purple ranks...

[@OctopusH2O]

Also people complaining about yoshi guard break when paul has a better setup that leads to a full combo without heat are just clowns 🤡

[@MidnightTrain095]

You can jab interrupt him. Paul’s setup is way easier to deal with.

[@rafaelvelez6596]

And thats supposed to make it better ??? 🤡🤡🤡

[@gearboxhpc]

Some ppl already mentioned his lack of plus frames, but does Yoshimitsu have any good counter-hit moves or strings that are safe AND spammable? I feel like I die if I block all day, but when I challenge anything, I get counter-hit and die anyway

[@RIZE_Jermanji]

Forgot to mention you can realign these moves off timing/forward aligning.

[@Kingkaindal]

Thankyou for making this video Big bro.✨️ and even tho I do complain and moan a lot because i have terrible defense against other players I agree with everything you said in this video. (I still stand on the point, he clearly needs some work on his wiffing. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE CLOSER TO A WALL) People who hate Yoshi should try him once I bet they'll understand our complaints.

[@16thcelify63]

I know yoshi had bad poke game but that list is crazy, you wanna beat yoshi fck it just side step right😭

[@Wikerstervolski]

The reason why I have a hard time agreeing with people saying Flash is OP is due to my experience with being too reliant on that move. I had this bad habit of spamming Flash whenever my opponent is pressing onto me ('cause it's still their turn) and immediately after they block an attack. This mostly resulted in me getting wrecked. I rarely try interrupting opponents with Flash nowadays since it pretty much held me back. Great video! 👍

[@16thcelify63]

same, i don’t think flash is just about frames either. it’s also about timing, if u can’t time it right because your opponent delays there attack when it’s still there turn your done for

[@g-radiation7154]

When you talk about safe options you should mention df3,1 and 3~4. Also instead of 2,2 (which is duckable) I would mention 2,1. Those are his standout safe (non-stance) strings imo.

[@delusional-lobo]

I just forgot to mention them tbh😅, but the message I was conveying is that he has lots of safe options during that section of the video.

[@YoungWrld0]

As a yoshi main who’s hit tekken god people don’t understand yoshi is not s and if you duck him more it makes it hard for him to open u up also he’s too inconsistent to be S also they give him all theses gimmicks that dont work how they should like teleporting in indian stance they should let us choose to teleport rather than it works sometimes or his kin perry everyone else perry works his dont

[@YoungWrld0]

Yoshi is a high risk high reward character with gimmicks that dont work how they supposed to

[@10FN0N3]

Im a battle ruler I agree 100% almost every other character has A LOT and I do mean A LOT of mix up potential. With Yoshimitsu. We’re limited to particular attacks because most are a little slow and there’s only so many strings to use. Imo Yoshimitsu is one of the harder characters to use. But his damage output somewhat evens out the balance of them.

[@YoungWrld0]

@@10FN0N3 yea u have to just do random things to win😂😂

[@10FN0N3]

@@YoungWrld0 i swear after 2-3 rounds. We genuinely have to out smart everyone. Especially if we winning 😂

[@asjeje]

Yeah you have to eventually do something unsafe to open ppl up lol his tricks/stances are just if you wanna be cool.

[@abirneji]

any other yoshi mains feels like his strings are damn near useless? outside of our standard jab strings... every other string we have has one or more of the following answers: - you can fuzzy duck it and launch both options - you can hold back and punish both options - you can there's only one option and it's unsafe anyway - you can just hold back because it's not going to do anything regardless

[@alexalexftw]

Nina Yoshi Drag in that order 1st 2 broken drag overpowered

[@ChrisM-wv4gs]

Like TMM says when you play against Yoshi you're under constant threat of a rage art

[@delusional-lobo]

That's not the case, he's presuming that Flash is an end all be all move. It doesn't have armor, it's extremely short range unless you are in NSS, which is still has the shortest reach out of all moves in-game. It doesn't function like a true parry as attacks can still interrupt him even when successfully proccing Flash. The threat is only applied in NSS or in Heat, which is already telegraphed when the Yoshi decides to go for the usual flowcharts. The only threat I can surmise is when Yoshi places you towards the wall for Oki set-ups or when he manages to launch you to go for the Guard Break set-up. These two things while having T8 dmg and his usual b3 & 4 makes him a menace, which I agree with the community on that front. There's more to uncover with his statements, but I'll leave it at that.

[@ChrisM-wv4gs]

@delusional-lobo sure it's not actually as strong as RA but to me it has one major thing in common with RA. I have to be very cautious Versus a player in Rage. I also have to be cautious Versus yoshimitsu. Granted flash doesn't eat moves like a RA. So it's weaker in that sense. On the other hand it's always a threat

[@nimbusws2566]

So in short: If you don't know how to deal with yoshimitsu, yoshimitsu will feel like an S-tier haha

[@regachref9952]

i love ur vids ma man keep up the good work

[@papasbravaaaa]

the tekken subreddit if full of whiny scrubs, Ive read very upvoted comments there saying they should remove flash lmao

[@delusional-lobo]

Yea, Flash has been in the series since the dawn of Tekken 3 where it was it's most Glorious and somehow players still complain even during the many nerfs the move has gone through.

[@lowlifelenny]

I've said it elsewhere, pressuring Yoshi at close range shuts down 90% of his best stuff. He needs room to breathe and if you take that away he doesn't have much. Flash can be baited and punished if you know which moves/strings are vulnerable to it. He's undeniably strong but I feel like everyone in T8 is a monster in their own way.

[@TheGashizmo]

You would be labelled in our minds as a deviant type player and we would change our tactics for you. I usually have more issues with people that do lots of pushback

[@Atb555]

Great video as always. What is the best way to use flash with sword stance.

[@delusional-lobo]

It's better used as if it were a parry move on reaction than attempt to attack when in sword stance, while in NSS it's better for setting up the Flash or using it like an attack

[@Atb555]

@@delusional-lobo are there any example strings you can flash inbetween? Or its not possible

[@asjeje]

Also is yoshi the only character whose parry doesn't parry or its just me?

[@DekarsBlade]

Do Tiers actually matter as non competitive players?

[@thezs1832]

no if you just play the game for fun play whatever character you like

[@metramort11]

No. Especially currently as there are none that are "unplayable" or "unbeatable".

[@delusional-lobo]

Doesn't really matter, just have fun with your pick. A lot of character are viable picks, tho other may have a better advantage than others, but don't let it deter you from choosing😊👍

[@asjeje]

Not really but to me matters because I think because are picking characters just to "win".

[@henvisch]

If you don't know every opponents movelist in and out it doesn't really matter because every character has some moves to catch someone off guard with. Only Pros profit from these Tierslists because they almost ever are made by pros.

[@نوافابراهيمالقبيلي]

bro yo go so far in yoshi good job

[@Kingkaindal]

also for the longest time I thought my basics are just shit and i can't side step to save my life. Cuz even against linear strings I was getting hit by literally everything on my sidesteps. Lol. i didn't know it was because this fuckin game doesn't want me to side step. even B3 B4 doesn't work well when it has to put up with this ridiculous tracking in the game.

[@zer0cx110]

I’m late at watching this video but here’s what I think .. He’s not S tier. He’s more like between A+ and A tier but I’d place him in A tier because … His lows are mid.. not bad, just bad. His frame traps aren’t that good like I was disappointed when I relalized that he wasn’t really a “frame trap “ character.. and he doesn’t get that much off his frame traps His notorious for his unblockables and mix ups but they’re slow.. so they’re all punishable . All of his most iconic moves are punishable and I actually feel like if people knew the match up then he’d go even farther down on the tier list . Flash is launch punishable on block and if you whiff it so flash isn’t as good as people make it sound and players bait out flash a lot at advanced levels of tekken .. so even though yoshi makes opponents adjust how they play, if they knew the counter play and stuff they ford you to play differently too and that’s hard as a Yoshi main when you’re used to everyone just pressing into your flash haha

[@OctopusH2O]

He’s not, very slow and clunky and you can’t play traditional pokes jabs df1, you have to play at mid range and hope force some mix ups or whiff punish or flash

[@Doctor...7-g8j]

Honestly i thought this video would be pure downplay bc you play yoshi but at least you mentioned hes strengths and weaknesses. I still think hes S bc hes so strong in so many aspects but hey we can aggre to disagree and good vid

[@rivius02]

Any character with no stance has the default stance with 200 moves

[@16thcelify63]

if u think b3 and b4 as well as flash are broken. I beg u to learn yoshi and go play him😹

[@asjeje]

Also am noticing with yoshi most of his strings are unsafe. Then i fight others like byran mishi's nina lili can all do 4/5 hits and be safe is taking some getting used too. And ppl playing the wait a whiff game

[@Deltaclaw]

The dumber you play, the higher Yoshi is in tier lol. He eats on predictability and lack of knowledge. Nice breakdown!

[@TCGArsenal]

Yoshi IS S TIER... He's top 5 character in tekken alongside Nina, Dragunov, Feng and Alisa. Many players agree on this, why don't U?

[@delusional-lobo]

I don't think he's S-Tier because the player base that speaks on Yoshimitsu being S-Tier doesn't have 400 hours or more with the character to understand that he has flaws and strategies to win against him. For his flaws, they are: - Weak Neutral - Hitbox Errors - Bad Side Step - Fake Pressure (Mix-ups) Now with this in mind, what are the Pros? - Strongest Oki (at the wall) - High DMG - Great Evasion The player base that argues that he's S-tier is players struggling with his defense and turn-taking moves with b3/b4 and Flash. However, the MAJORITY of the players have not stopped to assess how to work around these moves. The players that I've trained with have built counter strategies to fight against other Yoshis, but for some reason, the community can't? Players need to adapt to his gameplay as he's one of the only characters that doesn't play conventional Tekken, but the community wants to force him to...which is not how you build your counter strategy against him. Also, to place him in S where the other monsters are, like; Drag, Feng, Jin, Alisa, Nina, and my personal opinion, Xiaoyu. He doesn't hold a candle to these characters with strong Heat gameplay, consistent pressure, great Neutral, Great space control, high dmg, high chip dmg, and easy mix-up with low-risk with high-rewards. IMO, Yoshi at his peak only really has high damage, his Oki is discernable at the wall with counter plays and his Flash acts as a big crutch to his defense. IF either one were to be nerfed the character would struggle. That's why I place him an A or A+. If Bandai were to buff his pressure game by adding a new tool, I can definitively argue that he'll be S-tier. That's my TED talk, again this is my opinion on the matter, we can agree to disagree, nor will I change your mind.

[@TCGArsenal]

​@@delusional-lobo yea, it's best to agree to disagree, but I have to straigten one of your claimS. The playerbase who speaks about Yoshi being S tier doesn't have 400+ hours of gameplay? you sure about that man? Do you think SUPER AKOUMA, JDCR, JEONDDING, KKOKKOMA, ULSAN, ARSLAN ASH, and many others in the video I link below don't have 400+ hours of gameplay? they all list Yoshi as their top 5 tekken 8 characters you know~ kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6qWfZafYqeIaZosi=jqyNZMFMWjK75I-S

[@delusional-lobo]

@@TCGArsenal No you've misunderstood me, I mean they don't have 400 hours or so on Yoshimitsu specifically. So they don't understand the proper means to play against him. I have 823 hours on steam, 95 percent of those hours are on Yoshi. Even with 200 hours you still will struggle to get a proper style with him, on 400 you've managed to build your style of gameplay with him. However, this is only with you playing him. It's different when you come across someone who plays him, so you need to build the tactics around him. So kind of reverse engineering to figure a method to go against Yoshi. I have no doubt the Pro's can figure Yoshi out in time, but it's only been a month ago that players felt that he was too strong as many Pro's struggled against him with how popular Yoshi is in Tekken 8, It was the same case with T7 in the beginning until they've nerfed Yoshi to the ground in later seasons because players had no clue how to fight him. Even if the Pro's think he's S-Tier, these are the same Pro's that lost to Rangchu in T7 during EVO 2018 with the bears that EVERYONE considered to be low-tier until they've gotten knowledge checked by Rangchu. Are you gonna tell me these players had thousands of hours practicing against Panda and Kuma during T7? It's only until afterwards that Rangchu struggled to even get to the Finals in EVO as players adapted and learned against the Bears. Hell I remember when he won a resurgence of bears came about online and Pro's starting labbing the character😂. This is the same case with Yoshi, just that he isn't low tier anymore, but I do think players are overestimating him because of their anecdotal experience against him. Again, agree to disagree. I don't mind our disagreements either😊.

[@Vexinz]

​@@delusional-lobo On the topic of pros specifically, I think it has to be said that they're playing a different game than online play. While yoshi still has his cons the pros he does have are valued much higher by professional players specifically because of how pro players play the game at that level like for instance a well placed flash could be game winning due to his insane okizeme and if launched lead to wall which again lets him run his amazing oki.

[@mrstrange1062]

You forgot to mention schizophrenic69's Yoshi

[@Kingkaindal]

All in all now I just want them to fix the hitboxes for Yoshi. I can deal with the other stuff eventually. And your a GOAT Lobo. I'll get to tekken king some day and we'll play against each other

[@mangotheif]

Definitely not S tier Maybe upper A at best

[@ItsPnF]

The downplay is wild

[@delusional-lobo]

There's no downplay ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯

[@ajkun5587]

bro take this vid down(kidding)! i dont want yoshi to get nerf just becuase his a S-tier?